The United States(!) of A
Yeah, I agree freeride 'leftist theocracy' is a cop out. What kind of theocracy has ever been left wing anyway.
While I've got little faith in any real change coming from the Democrats, perhaps at least they can walk back some of the insane stupidity of Trumps administration. I'm no fan of the status quo, but what Trump offered was much worse.
"mostly non-violent protests' were the antifa catch phrase.
Just saw the Capitol on the news and the visuals look like a modern storming of the Bastille. The symbolism is huge. Notice far less property damage than antifa/BLM.
The flag of the Confederate States of America walked through the Capitol building, wow.
I think the people doing it are there because they reckon stopping election counting in the middle of the night and then re-opening counting again at 4am with a massive switch in lead is not legit. Courts seem to think it's legit, so there you go.
US is about to go full leftist theocracy, and so will clamp down on any dissidents on climate, race, gender etc. They will do the green new deal bubble (this will be good and fundamentally remake their infrastructure, reducing their dependence on imported oil, put people to work and maybe even reduce CO2 outputs) and markets will remain open (they need inflows of capital to keep it all going) so opportunities will still be there. Depending on your political stance the Rubicon (for the left, storming of Capitol; for the right, election fraud) has been crossed. Doesn't look good for the everyday people there.
The only thing we need to be mindful of, here in Oz, is their military and trade positioning vis a vis China, for that is the great power contest of our times, and affects us more than anything else. There have been some certainties released by the USN recently, at least."
A(wo)men to that!!
...it's a very different 'left'and 'right' battle we are currently in, ...and it seems some of you just don't get it...
...and the collateral damage is huge!
"....They will do the green new deal bubble (this will be good and fundamentally remake their infrastructure, reducing their dependence on imported oil, put people to work and maybe even reduce CO2 outputs) and markets will remain open (they need inflows of capital to keep it all going) so opportunities will still be there...."
there really are not that many people left on the planet that couldn't see some good in this
even amongst the supposed 'conservatives' and 'RWNJ's'
...both percieved and real...
but, as to the rest of the orthodoxy... pppffffffff!
Capitol Hill (Update) Death Tally rises to 4
Woman shot by cops was a 4x Tour US veteran & high level security official
Another woman + 2 men died in med Emergencies (re: Heart attacks-Fall injuries).
1 supposed onsite Bomb +
2 Pipe Bombs disarmed from both Rep' + Dem' National Committees.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/ar...
FBI are going after everyone on any Vid & enlisted Public Help.
Judiciary Committee sent letter to Vice Prez to remove Prez on 25th Amendment.
World Leaders ask for Trump to get a grip on reality.
State of Play...(Midnite Thursday)
House & Senate recessed to consider Pennsylvania Objection.
Vote Count - (Biden 244) vs (157 Trump)
https://www.afr.com/world/north-america/democrats-on-the-verge-of-taking...
What if vote doesn't proceed?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/06/what-happens-if-congr...
ANTIFA blame game.
Rep Congressmen :
"Holy Shit! Violent terrorists Antifa are masquerading as Trump supporters."
MAGA Mighty Moose stars as the Marauding ANTIFA Viking.
Rep' Pollies reframed XR Photoshop to claim it was an ANTIFA invasion!
Pro Trump Dumbass Bitch Lawyer spotted several ANTIFA at Capitol Hill.
Only problem being they're all Renowned Proud Boys stoking ANTIFA rallies.
https://mashable.com/article/antifa-conspiracies-trump-mob-january-6-cap...
How about this one! D'oh! How 'bout him...D'oh! This evil bastard...D'oh! D'oh!
Trump can't even command his own takeover of the Capital ...a pissweak failure!
Whole World agrees on the one thing! Psycho Trump incited the Hate & Violence.
Rep' queue grows longer for US to invoke the 25th Amendment...Pure evil begone!
PS: Since Nov 3 Election 130,000 voters died from Covid.{R.I.P}
That's a lot of unaccounted Dead People's votes + also in a real lot in swing states.
Trump trips over corpses & is oblivious to larger than life cartoon playing out!
Where is the proof of the States checking these 130,000 Dead people's ballots?
Doubt if you could hide such minor detail...'kept calling & 1,000's never answered?'
Lawyers missed out on the Elephant in the room...'Always the next pandemic!
Ah, right on cue indo. Should post the CNN one again.
What exactly is your point though? Care to put it into words.
"Ah, right on cue indo. Should post the CNN one again."
I wish he would... in the truest sense of the term...
it never gets old
Watch this space: Trump gets removed by Pence / senior GOP under 25th Amendment, before he can complete his tranche of Pardons (including self).
Get your popcorn. This ain’t over yet.
Pence has declared the electoral college votes to be approved by Congress. Biden/Harris now absolutely confirmed Pres/VP elect.
Trump has verbally committed to an orderly transition (whilst maintaining that he disagrees with the result). Hopefully he's true to that and can reign in the crazies among his followers...
"Ah, right on cue indo. Should post the CNN one again.
What exactly is your point though? Care to put it into words."
I think the beauty of these type of meme's is they are a bit open to personal interpretation, but for me it's about how media puts slants on things, beat's some things up but also down plays other things or even completely ignores some things.
To be honest in the past I've got sick of people going on about how you cant trust mainstream media and fake news this fake news that.
But this last year it really does seem like its become harder and harder to trust the media and then we have social media that seems to be censoring views and opinion's more and more even the so called fact checkers that are not really fact checkers anymore but becoming more and more just another opinion.
All the lines are just getting so fuzzy.
This one is more straightforward
2021 JAN 06 WHAT DO YOU SEE UNARMED FEMALE SHOT BY A SECURITY OFFICER IN THE CONGRESS
I SEE A COLD-BLOODED POINT-BLANK EXECUTION OF AN UNARMED FEMALE BY A SECURITY OFFICER IN THE CONGRESS
https://rumble.com/vcigz9-2021-jan-06-what-do-you-see-unarmed-female-sho...
And do you believe that this, well documented, media slant detracts in any way from the seriousness of the recent events?
Regarding the vox meme Indo posted - it is worth recognising that the actual root issue underlying the BLM movement and the resulting riots was and is a genuine serious issue and gross injustices were and are occurring.
In contrast the root issue behind the MAGA group has been thoroughly tested through the courts and afforded all possible avenues in the democratic process. After all this it has been proven to be completely false and baseless, meaning the actual goal of the group was to disenfranchise millions of voters - at its most basic level a deeply anti-democratic movement.
@JQ 12.52pm
"And what words would you choose Andy?"
Well, I would use words that accurately describe the situation as opposed to using words that are by definition incorrect.
How are we to have meaningful communication when people ignore what words mean?
How are we to move forward on so many subjects when we can't even agree on a starting point?
No wonder discussions are so divided when both "sides" are so devoid of nuance and go straight for over-emotive and inaccurate hyperbole.
It's being part of the fake news, it's contributing to the muddying of the waters.
"US is about to go full leftist theocracy, and so will clamp down on any dissidents on climate, race, gender etc"
Speaking of accuracy, it's totally implausible to suggest that the States might go "full leftist theocracy".
The U.S, is a corporatocracy, a kleptocracy.
Any move to the left will be limited to lip service regarding social issues only, and in any case it will have been fundamentally co-opted by neoliberal motives.
The corporate media will bang on about this and that, and politicians and other public figures will wring their hands, but structurally very little will change and everyone will get played like a cheap Taiwanese violin.
Perhaps you could proffer up said words Andy?
Seems to me it wouldn't be unreasonable to sum it up as a coup attempt:
From Merriam Webster:
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
To my mind the events met these criteria, at least their goals anyway.
Agree with you on the 'leftist theocracy' nonsense. There is no chance they will move to the left in any substantial way, that would impact the wealth of the wealthiest, they won't allow much of this to happen.
Big Thanx to crew for sharing those insane images all round...
Can't believe these leaders carried on Voting in a fresh mass killing site!
Just hose down the blood ....it's still good! Did they at least lower the Flags!
Was it all the Ultimate Diversionary Tactic like in a Hollywood Plot.
https://www.businessinsider.in/thumb.cms?msid=80144053&width=1200&height...
Did we all just fall for the old switcharoonie trick....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErGQKrvVgAEM-O9.jpg
Far as the Law states, Vice Prez should be Guarding the Election Certificates.
Reckon soiled certificates are now suss & worth shit after illegal Blondehandling.
Yet stupidly they all carried on voting with the obviously fouled certificates
Trump could stall vote & insist Archivist or one of 4 State Official copies be counted.
The more you see, the more this unholy day rewards the Big Baby his redo!
C'mon! The corpses keep piling up!
The Head of the Proceedings count is compromised.(We all see > Mid vote!)
Mighty Moose drops a number 2 on Pence's Counting Sheet.(It's all Tampered)
All are photographing ballot counts..Was Arizona chosen as a cert' swap on table.
https://images.thequint.com/thequint%2F2021-01%2Fefcb7db3-b443-46ca-be70...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/4558/2279306_57_artic...
How many Certificates missing / swapped / stolen or go for joyride!
Offices are trashed, thought that was a bong! (let's just say it is!)
Anyhow all security / family passwords & days proceedings are all breached.
Phones-Diaries hacked, to continue voting may have placed family & friends at risk.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13677668/shock-pictures-aftermath-capitol-...
Just saying that if US signs off on this, then it appears they've lost control.
Sure! Pollies may say it's brave...but just as many will say it's pretty fucked up!
Spot on Shortenism. This week was VERY big.
4 dead.
56 officers injured.
68 arrested.
If those numbers hold then this will have been a very significant riot and mob assault on an election process and hence democracy.
In my mind, the most significant difference between this and the BLM riots is that this riot was fomented and incited by the Head of State.
An assault on the process of democracy by the actual head of state is.....I don't want to say unprecedented.....but it's fcuking gnarly.
Based on Sypkans recommendation I had a squiz at Breitbart yesterday.
holy fcuk, that is a scary universe.
Sample comment: "Okay Dino • 23 minutes ago
the sooner they get him out the sooner the Civil war will begin... ah wait, God will not allow it. Trump WILL serve a
2nd term.....chill."
Acres and acres of conspiracy bat-shit crazy and stirred up fcukknuckles ready for civil war.
Unfortunately, violence incited by leader is not without precedent. From February 2020:
"The chief architect of the US blueprint to resolve the decades-old conflict between Israelis and Palestinians on Friday blamed Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas for soaring tensions and violence in the West Bank since the plan’s release last week.
Jared Kushner, the son-in-law and adviser to President Donald Trump who spent three years working on the plan, said leaders who are ready for a state “don’t call for days of rage and encourage their people to pursue violence if they’re not getting what they want”.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/abbas-orchestrating-violence-agai...
Ha ha.
Was watching the news footage of the riot and thought 'that bloke looks like Alex Jones'.
Sure enough it was him.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/11/06/alex-jones-calls-on...
When comparing this with Antifa & BLM this year even though this is more serious because it crosses a line never crossed and erodes democracy.
IMHO what people are missing is the precedent that has been set by Antifa and BLM in the last year, one of anti rule, anti authority, anti government, calls too defunded the police etc they have basically been allowed to go freely causing chaos and destruction rarely condemned by media or even leaders not condemning them and lame excuses given like they are not a group just an ideology.
When you allow this to happen for one group of people is it any surprise that other groups of people act in a similar manner?
Whatever way you dress it up the Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation in the world fomented and incited violence...look at his own words...no amount of obfuscation, bluster and denial will change that.
The buck stops with Trump!
If you could show me where Donald Trump incited violence I’d appreciate it.
I’ve heard him say a lot about contesting the results of the election and refusing to concede until the final decision was made and I also recall much talk of uniting his voter base to stay strong and hopeful but I don’t remember him telling people to riot or be violent .
I’ve read words from Trump expressly telling people not to be violent and to leave the capital after those few dozen muppets were strolling around the joint. Twitter actually took down the most compelling message of peace and respecting the law from the president to his supporters. He explicitly told people to act lawfully.
If you believe that people took it upon themselves to read his words incorrectly and to misallocate intent to them well please say so as their is a vast difference between the two. There seems to be a lot of misrepresentation of words getting around so I thank you for clarifying this issue in advance.
I’m not exposed to all news sources so this is a genuine enquiry .
Blowin there's more out there but I reckon TBB is the man for that job
“If you could show me where Donald Trump incited violence I’d appreciate it.”
The denial is strong in this one.....
San guine - thanks for the reply but there is literally nothing in that piece which is remotely suggestive of Trump inciting violence. Nothing.
Here’s an explicit order to his supporters to not be violent from the link you provided:
“You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong … I know everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building. To peacefully, patriotically make your voices heard.”“
PEACEFULLY
I see a president compelling his supporters to peacefully protest as is their democratic right.
Rabbits68- I’m not sure if English is your first language or if you are proficient in its use but one thing common across all languages is that a person’s desire to alter facts through assertions will never change those facts. So if you could find someone near you who could relate the difference between your incorrect interpretation of the words you read in black and white it’d really help you get a grasp on things.
Blowin it's always about the spark that starts the fire. The arsonist only needs one match.
As Trump has continued to claim that the election was stolen, his more extreme have taken his words for their own purposes. At no time has he condemned the violence.
I reiterate, he is the Commander-in-Chief, his words count whichever way you interpret them.
*extreme followers*
Fuck that Alex jones link is graphic, showing the female protester being shot and killed.
Blowin, might I suggest you apply the same standards for 'inciting violence' as you did several months ago when you said democratic leaders were doing it during the BLM stuff.
It seems to me you are applying wildly different standards.
Is he not inciting violence merely through his demonstrably false accusations about the integrity of the election?
Exactly. When he explicitly tells his supporters to be peaceful I don’t understand how anyone acting otherwise can be attributed to his words.
There has been no violence until a few dozen clowns started scuffling with Capital building security and this directly contradicted Trump’s message to them. I see just as much willful misinterpretation and misrepresentation of his words from Anti Trumpers. But that is nothing new.
The really big news though, is that the Republicans have now lost control of both houses and that is the real damning indictment of the failure of Trump and his enablers in the Republican Party.
Blowin, why anyone would bother to legitimately answer your question is beyond me. To this very moment you’re STILL defending Trump & continuing to put the blame elsewhere. He is pure toxicity at work. The fact you can’t see through his very thin veil is quite frankly bizzare. In my opinion you are in complete denial because of your obvious devotion to him. Unfortunately you are not alone...
You're not quite right Rabbit, Blowin doesn't actually seem to agree with much of Donald Trumps actions or policies. But Trump attacks his enemies and that's good enough.
I wonder, is there a floor to the events that Blowin will excuse in his zeal to attack and see attacked those whom he hates?
Apparently the only interpretation of Trumps words that is acceptable is the completely and 100% literal, there can be no implied meaning, no unspoken requests.
Brazenly lying about the integrity of the election? Not a problem, shouldn't rile anyone up really. Acceptable behaviour from the leader of a country, no worries.
Aside from America's developing state of affairs.
What is true democracy? Why is it a benefit and how do we nurture and grow the democratic process in Australia? Should a democratic process be up held? What causes people to loose faith in democracy? Are our leaders democratic in their decision making thus representing the majority of ideals and views expected by the majority of voters? Can we make democracy better here in Australia and how? What does democracy mean for Australia and the world. Should democracy evolve or can it? Why or if democracy is important to the future generations.
Just some thoughts before your next duck dive or finding that lost block of wax in the back of the car.
Running theory : MAGA upstarts are being weaned on Fox Cartoons.
No! No! tbb...Not another episode of the Simpsons...that's wot the TV Man said.
https://propakistani.pk/lens/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Capitol-Hill-rio...
https://s3.india.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/459-320x180.jpg
https://twitter.com/HJMO1987/status/1347000252738523136/photo/3
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErGW8EgXcAU-t4t?format=jpg&name=small
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/894c7b590ca34466ed9cdc23281e3a3f?...
The one that left my jaw on the floor was his message to the mob - "*We love you*, now go home in peace". That was his opportunity to distance himself from their actions and he passed... "We love you" kinda comes across as an endorsement.
It's indicative of just how closely tied to these people he is. These guys aren't really republicans, they are Trumpists.
JQ, first of all thanks for the civil chat.
The three words in question are fascist, dictator and coup.
The first two (related) words are inaccurate for reasons I've discussed here
https://www.swellnet.com/comment/700305.
They're simply a long way off the mark.
The word coup has a bit more potential to it but it's still not the case; this article says it a lot better than I can.
https://theconversation.com/was-it-a-coup-no-but-siege-on-us-capitol-was...
I mean, to me those protesters are a joke, just look at them. A ragtag bunch of greying overweight drama queens who aren't looking to seriously overthrow anything, they just want a bit of excitement in their frustrated lives and are encouraged by someone who is so far out of his depth and has so little understanding of legal and political processes it's breathtaking.
Trump's not seriously looking at instigating a coup, he's just a toddler having a tantrum and looking to fuck things up on the way out the door.
Who needs a silver bullet when a stake has been driven into the heart of the Republican Party
So when Trump invited the crowd to march down to Capitol Hill and protest peacefully about the fraudulent election results he simply “misread the room”? Yeah, ok.....
Andy,
I wouldn't use the phrases 'fascist' or 'dictator' - I don't think these really apply here. We're a long way from fascism here I think.
I would however use the term 'would-be dictator' and I stand by it. I strongly believe that if it were possible, Trump would definitely seek to be a dictator. Disagree if you will, but there's reams of evidence documenting his desires to hold power and for that power to be almost all encompassing. Ultimately it seems as if the 'checks & balances' (if you can even call them that anymore) were sufficient as to put that out of his reach.
That article from the conversation is interesting. I note that they outline 3 criteria to define a coup, then go on to state that yesterdays events met 2 of the 3 criteria.
They assessed that it did not meet the first criteria, which is:
1) Are the perpetrators agents of the state, such as military officials or rogue governmental officials?
I would argue (and this has been clearly borne out in the above 'discussion', in media coverage and in the reactions of various politicians & officials - of both parties) that this did in fact meet the first criteria. It's long past time to stop giving Trump the benefit of the doubt X10. Trump should not even be afforded the level of leeway one would give a normal citizen - he is the leader of the country! He should be and must be held to a higher standard, a much higher standard.
In light of this, I would argue that his actions in promoting baseless conspiracy theories regarding the integrity of the election coupled with the inflammatory language he has used rise to the level where we could indeed consider the actions of those people yesterday, to in effect be defacto 'agents of the state' in such that they were acting based on the words of Trump.
Their intentions, while perhaps not well defined, were to disrupt the proceedings of democracy to benefit their leader. That they were unable to coalesce this into a strategy that would meet their goals is irrelevant and does not detract from the seriousness of the event.
Rabbits- you are aware that there was tens of thousands of Trump supporters who did march on Capital hill and protest peacefully aren’t you ? No fires , no riots , no assaults , no destruction, no violence, no vandalism.
When he thanked them for their support why is it you focus on the tiny minority who got into the capital building ?
What I’m suspect about is those who gained access to the building and more importantly how they gained access. Take a look at the people in there. They are unarmed and unprepared. Elderly, overweight and not at all like the premeditated mobs we’ve seen attending riots over the past year in their all black outfits , riot shields , weapons and organised structure. How did this unlikely Dad’s army achieve what a highly motivated and committed bunch of proper activists failed to do despite their best intentions and proclivity for proper mayhem ?
When it is revealed that this access to the capital building is used as leverage and justification to prevent Trump from legally being able to run for election in 2024 I think the explanation for how this bunch of retards overran the capital building will be more apparent.
Useful idiots indeed.
JQ - If propagating baseless conspiracy theories were enough to render a politician unable to sit in office then you’ve just excluded the entire DNC with their Russia collusion fantasy.
Particularly Kamala Harris for claiming that Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian agent ( can’t even type that without grinning at the absurdity)
Also Joe Biden for backing the illegal invasion of Iraq built upon the fake Weapons of Mass destruction conspiracy.
I think what you really want JQ is for Trump to be banned from potential electability because you don’t like him. That’s some undemocratic impulse you’re harbouring bloke. I think you might be a would be dictator.
"Their intentions ... were to disrupt the proceedings of democracy to benefit their leader."
Agreed but they never intended to seize power, hence it was not an attempted coup.
It was a bunch of dumplings of average intelligence playing dress up.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank