All Things Religion Thread

Brutus- Go hang out with someone you care about mate.

Forget the rest of the universe for a while.

Also

"secular corruption endangers the stability and longevity of Western Civilization."

What, and religious style corruption doesn't Brutus?

On another topic, I hope it's not true when you say that there's no surf community in Torquay and people have lost the will or the appetite for activism.

That'd be a tragedy.

Ok Indo...it's a very long story........but it really came about after twice , after the Australian Drs ,gave me 2-3 year cancer death sentence , and I was getting treatment in the USA.....the second time I had chosen to not do Chemo and try and scratch a year or so before it got me.
I sat for a year in self imposed misery , waiting for the end...then all of a sudden woke up one morning with....."you have to go back and see your USA Dr ASAP" which I did . I had decided to disappear and not be a burden on my family and friends if the cancer was terminal . So walked into the Docs office( Never been so scared in my life!) did a barrage of tests , he comes out with the results " says that the tumor is in a great place to treat with hormones and radiotherapy, and the Oz docs got it wrong , so all good go home and we will start the treatment..........I walked out of the office on a cloud....look up at the heavens and just mutter " I surrender , I don't understand anymore why I am still here...18 car crashes / coma's/ nearly died at least 10 times in the ocean.....had some serious run ins with people over the years , pretty heavy shit ..if ya lose ya dead kinda stuff...3 days later I arrive in hawaii , I work and stay with one of my best family friends Eric Arakawa and his family.....they have been Christians for at least 40years....and been waiting for me that long .....went to a prayer meeting the next morning and went to church on Sunday...never met a group of happier people , all wanting to help.....there was enormous relief from me , but more importantly a sense of trust/belief and a fellowship with "the Mission" in Worshiping a loving God and living by Jesus's lessons . " all men are equal , love thy neighbor , do unto others as you would have them do unto you.......so pretty powerful stuff , have I fallen off the wagon ...sure.....but I keep trying and am now adjusting to a new life ...know God's got my back , that Jesus died for our sins and left us with a legacy of love .......all the rest now seems another lifetime away...and very trivial....like Bells which I have now relinquished being the guy fighting to save it......who cares and really who wants to deal with all the authorities , what a waste of time and effort.....so here ends a chapter and another begins!

sorry if I misunderstood your comment.....yes there are plenty of people out there who misrepresent the Bible/God/Jesus......but they are just people , it's amazing how many people cry in the "name of God"

Frog......if you read or watched the movie of the book......"Case for Christ by Lee Strobel" this would explain the real facts from an atheist and answer all you ridicule and comments on the Bible/Jesus.....evrything you said I would have agreed with you 10 years ago.....now I have facts and direction for the future

AndyM....."secular corruption endangers the stability and longevity of Western Civilization."

What, and religious style corruption doesn't Brutus?

The Bible is the cornerstone of Western Society , and as secular society now is challenging the Bible and it's relevance , Secular society's are now being more readily accepted.....but, with dire consequences....fragmentation and the polarization of society to where we don't listen to each other anymore, we yell at each other...everybody is an expert .....all these details ...which just divide is further....

Like here in Torquay , after the last local elections , we now have the most divided community ever...I think surfing culture might be 20% of total demographics....local board riders fighting with each other , Surfing vic creates more problems than solves, a completely different community to 5 years ago...very urban now and a Libertarian Councilor in Torquay , who will now run the Bells Beach Committee...new hotel at Bells , who cares the old school crew but that's it.....more people to come and live , so we have to welcome the new residents , and seriously dilute what's left of the surfing culture....

Thanks for the story Brutus, i thought it might have been something like that.

I personally can't understand how people can believe in a god, but each to their own, and if it works for you that's all that matters.

westof lake.....just read or watch "A case for Christ by Lee Stroebel " he has gathered all the relevant questions from an atheists point of view .....and a lot of the the questions and statements you have made are all answered....but I guess you have to want to find the truth!

Hi Indo...my ex wife is a psychic .....I have seen her do so much super natural shit it's scary....so I know there is a spirit world....which is super natural.....so I have lived some first hand spirit stuff that there are no answers for!

I personal don't beleive in any spirt type stuff, I've never seen or experienced anything like that, but the funny thing is if i had to stay in some abandoned old house or something overnight alone without electricity id still be shit scared especially if i heard weird noises or thought i could see things even if i knew there was no way there was other humans there.

Same with religion im not a believer in any way, but i bet i would be praying on my death bed asking for forgiveness from god etc.

And i bet I'm not alone in both those scenarios...go figure.

Dear Brutus, This is for you mate...Grab some healthy chips and watch this when you've got some time. I met Ian in Caloundra when I was hanging there for a while in the 80's. Top guy and a cracking yarn....Enjoy....Peace to ya..and you've done well but don't need to prove anything.

yeah Indo , I guess when you haven't seen the "otherside" , it would be terrifying to have first hand experience without any former experiences.
But I will tell you one story thay my ex did....one of her childhood friends Mum had just passed on , so the ex was at the funeral in the Church when the Mum came and spoke to the ex......" the photo of myself and my daughter(only 7 years old) has disappeared and I know my daughter is freaking out , so could you please tell her ,it's slipped down the back of the dresser and lodged in the 4th draw."
Daughter went home , the photo of her and her Mum was 4 draws down back of dresser"....there was a bit a sad story at the end of this , as my ex's friend....made out that the ex was some kind of demon....freak blah blah blah....the ex sorta went underground with her skills/powers......have so many other stories like that.....but it doesn't feel right to me....scares me......but I personally witnessed this for 45 years....so very easy to believe in a God after the supernatural incidents were very frequent..
I have often wondered how people react to the super natural...

Brutus, you say fragmentation and polarisation of societies is due to a rejection of religion?

What about the lack of genuine political leaders, a change in media including the rise of social media, an increase in wealth disparity?

Seems like you've got a vested interest in looking for simplistic answers in this case.

westof lake.....just read or watch "A case for Christ by Lee Stroebel " he has gathered all the relevant questions from an atheists point of view.

Cheers brutus, will have a look.

But I'm not an atheiest . Not at all.

If I may borrow a soapbox for a sec:

imho,

I can say that I believe in God 'omnipresent', meaning 'all that is', or the one in which we live and move and have our being.

I also believe that God does send an 'omnipotent' individual every now and again to remind us of our true potential.

You don't need a religion to believe in God.

I would say that a 'church' is a middle-man and therefore unnecessary.

Go direct to the source. (simple economics, simple physics)

As for super- natural, 'spirit type stuff', I went all in a long time ago
and all I can say is, truth is stranger than fiction.

Ever had a dream? Congratulations, you've been to the afterlife.
Can I prove this right here right now?
For want of a better term, 'hell no'.

"...but I guess you have to want to find the truth!"

Now, ain't that the truth :)

"... I work and stay with one of my best family friends Eric Arakawa and his family.....they have been Christians for at least 40years....and been waiting for me that long .....went to a prayer meeting the next morning and went to church on Sunday...never met a group of happier people , all wanting to help....."

I find this interesting, I agree many christians/religious people do seem to have an inner peace about them, quite cheery by nature, seemingly not as burdened by the weight of the world. I remember a qanda episode that focussed on science and religion - which can seem contradictory - the religious science chick talked of these contradictions, and how many of her peers are not religious. she said she understands their point of view, and how they reject religion, but said scientists don't have to take this path, and felt that those that do are 'missing out' on something, I tend to agree sometimes... geez I know some miserable bugger reductionist scientists....

"...Brutus, you say fragmentation and polarisation of societies is due to a rejection of religion?

What about the lack of genuine political leaders, a change in media including the rise of social media, an increase in wealth disparity?

Seems like you've got a vested interest in looking for simplistic answers in this case."

can't it be all of the above?

a bit of column A, column B?

I agree brutus would appear to have some vested interest. but countries that have maintained some of their traditional identity/ identities don't seem to be struggling with this stuff anywhere near as much as western countries are

indo with all it's religions/indentities is a fine example. technology, social media, and widening disparity are off the charts in terms of disruption that they have brought to more developing countries ie. the pace of change is phenomenal, especially compared to us, yet they don't appear half as divided on their trajectory as the path western countries are currently on...

religion, for all it's flaws, does provide a common identity, and a bit of hope, as well as tools to deal with a rapidly changing world

many of the spawn of baby boomers (gen y, gen z) appear terribly troubled in this godless, individualist, consumerist, libertarian 'utopia' we have created... created and encouraged by both sides of politics in their own way...

people need hope and idols and identity and stuff it seems...

take away the traditional ones and you end up with a consumerist celebrity worshipping shitshow ...for the plebs anyway...

Pops. Miracles performed or not. Son of God or not. Hard to know.
But the actions and words at the time clearly indicated that:
- Jesus wanted to reform Judaism not create a new religion.
- he and his followers strongly believed heaven would be created on earth (not in the "sky" somewhere mystical as Paul later invented) in their lifetimes.

What Chrisrianity became is not what Jesus wanted or expected.

Of course Paul and a hundred scribes and a thousand preachers siince might have been guided by God to shape it how he wanted. People can believe that if it suits their purposes. But I am not so sure they can say the religious direction that evolved are what Jesus's wanted or expected when alive.

That should trouble people a lot when they say they are followers of Jesus.

Jesus gave no hint of fore-knowledge of what was to come over the next 2000 years. In his view it did not matter much as the end was nigh.

Experts who have never even read what Jesus said. He covered everything ..past present and future. ..and for Paul.. he hated Christians yet became one..The truth set him free.

Frog,
Paul taught a physical bodily general resurrection, like Jesus'. He (like John) taught that there would be a complete new creation - both physical ("Earth") and non-physical ("Heaven").
In Hebraic thought, heaven could mean either the physical sky, or the non-physical realm.

The Last Wave directed by Peter Weir.

There are actually 3 heavens in translation, the sky above is the first, space is the second and planet Heaven the third. ( paul talked about the third heaven) You get to planet heaven after your spirit leaves your body. When you die your spirit descends into the heart of the earth and waits. Then if approved by God you are lifted up and go through the tunnel which is probably like a wormhole in Sci Fi. If unapproved you will wait for judgement but there is no time there so you wouldn't know if you've been there a year or a hundred years. At the end of the tunnel you will be greeted by The Christ Himself in His glorified form and put on planet Heaven, a very beautiful and physical place and in your brand new physical body. Earth will also be renewed after the great tribulation so for a time there will still be two seperate habitations and eventually just one.
It is comforting to know that on my death, my heavenly father will still look after me and guide my spirit or "actual person" through the maze of death and to the renewed and promised life.
Also, If anyone is interested in the time of the end and the mark of the beast etc. I think I can answer that for you, as I have a theory which has been playing out exactly correct over the last few years.

All things will be accommodated.You will receive whatever your deepest desire/belief is as it will be created in their own reality for each incarnate being passing from the physical back into the meta-physical or spiritual realm.
That's why this universe and all other universes within the multi verse and unlimited dimensions are now expanding.
All is possible as all of it is creative so its get's added to the creation story of the Creator experiencing itself in the Created.
When you come from a Unified state of awareness like Yeshua/Jesus and others it is seen that all is loved as it is all just one non stop virtual reality of experience, rather than thought/imagination. In this state, nothing is hurt, nothing is wrong, it is just experience and to have an individual experience, relativity had to be created (adam and eve metaphor) so it could be a unique seemingly separated experience. to fully get right into it. What's it actually like to experience think and feel.........?Hence the creation of the great polarity, and bad was created so good could be an experience not just a concept.
Yeshua taught all about this, and the most important suggestion was don't forget you are an original piece of god essence having a pretend experience in a virtual reality and every part of that reality is other pieces of divine essence, hence treat and love others as you yourself would be liked to be treated and love YOUR GOD/SELF with all your heart mind and soul. There's only one thing and you are it being you.And see, even death can't stop you from being you, is what he demonstrated.
So believe what you want, have fun and don't give a fuck about death, you live on, your body eventually re integrates back into adding to a new creation, so be thankful, surf your fucking brains out and be as kind as possible.
So say's the prophet davetherave, he of infamous bs fame and master of embellishment.
Yes Ben, xmas day pumped, best i have seen since i lived here!!!!!!!

Sypkan "What about the lack of genuine political leaders, a change in media including the rise of social media, an increase in wealth disparity?

Seems like you've got a vested interest in looking for simplistic answers in this case."

The lack in genuine leaders is a symptom of our current System that is becoming more secular and divided along secular humanist lines which has created doubt and that if we are only here on Earth to entertain ourselves because there is no hope for our soul/spirit , as is the social media ..me me me .......and wealth disparity is now as bad as its ever been and getting worse. I think the figure is 1% of people control 50% of World assets , and 5% control 80% of Global assets.
So when you put forward lack of leaders, social media curse , with increasing wealth disparity ( Pandemic has shown rich got richer , we got poorer)....there's your part of the foundation that shows a fragmented world and people being increasingly polarized as they are torn between personal ambition and what is the right thing to do when you are a Christian who follows the teaching of the bible.
You can see what Trump has done to the USA , divided and conquered for a short period of time...but you have a divided people who are awash with rumor/innuendo false conspiracy claims ......what is real anymore in our current world , the teachings of the Bible and Jesus....through fellowship with other like minded individuals , the foundation of what is right and wrong.
what you have described here to me ,"many of the spawn of baby boomers (gen y, gen z) appear terribly troubled in this godless, individualist, consumerist, libertarian 'utopia' we have created... created and encouraged by both sides of politics in their own way...

people need hope and idols and identity and stuff it seems...

take away the traditional ones and you end up with a consumerist celebrity worshipping shitshow ...for the plebs anyway..."

we are at a point where we can easily indentify decadence . and how history has shown , that when your culture reaches a decadent point , it is the beginning of the end, as self gratification gets you playing with toys and worshipping money and power.....every culture/empire bar none , eventually fails....because of mankinds inherent greed......

westy , this whole formal religion thing is man made to interpret and teach Gods Law.
What we see is an attempt at fellowship in Christ , but man cannot help himself !
Man then uses his own interpretation of the Bible and becomes the middleman creating a religion .
we all then have lost direct contact with God and Jesus...and become part of Christian groups , like white evangelists , or even catholics......that's where the distortion/decadence starts , and suddenly it's all about us ........and our wants and needs....so what is truth....a book , a God , a son of God.......spruiking peace love and happyness and respect your fellow humans....where's the downside in answering directly to God , or our decadent whims?
I agree 100% that truth is stranger than fiction....I mean 2020.....LOL

Optimist,
Have to disagree with you on "planet heaven".
The two relevant cultures to Paul's writing (Hebraic and Hellenistic) had no conception of a planet in the modern sense - to them, planets (& stars) were understood to be lights embedded in the dome of sky/space.
So I'd stick with heaven = sky/space or non-physical creation & earth = ground or physical creation (each context dependant). So the phrase "heaven & earth" means the totality of creation, both physical & non-physical.

Not that I'd even hold to that too tightly - the exact nature of heaven isn't rigorously dealt with; the main interests of the various NT & OT texts all lay elsewhere - the core truths of Christianity don't stand or fall with one's understanding of heaven...

Yep Pops, I agree that I don't fully understand the destination heaven. I do know that it is a physical place with buildings plants trees water etc etc. and a city with 12 gates. A physical city etc belongs somewhere physical and with all the universe out there and all those planets I'm making the assumption its one of them and somewhere in the far reaches of the North. I also know that another race already resides there (who we call the angels). and they can interact with us but not us knowingly with them. I have at least once but that's another story. I'm not even going to go down the matter and anti matter road as its a rabbit hole. I'll just stick with what I can touch, see and understand as well as the history and teachings of Jesus.
"In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you"....Jesus...John 14:2
...and again....But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9
And some blues from the best.

‘Planet heaven’ !!! ;););)
Wow, this is really going places now!
Optimist states: ‘when you die your spirit descends into the heart of the earth and waits’. Ok....
‘If you are approved by god you are lifted up and go through a tunnel which is probably like a wormhole in sci fi’. Really?! ;)
And this optimist gold quote:
‘If anyone is interested in the time of the end and the mark of the beast etc I think I can answer that for you as I have a theory which has been playing out exactly correct over the last few years’
Fark. This is next level delusion.
Not sure whether at 4am in the morning your Christ consciousness is clicking into gear too well... ;);)
I mean, this does seem like a carefully considered fantasy... but that is just a theory of mine ;);)
Pops is atleast willing to challenge this beautifully imaginative ‘theory’ so thank you to atleast one ‘believer’ questioning the obvious falsehoods being sprouted by optimist...
Brutus summed it up nicely and this can be put in any context - ‘what we see is an attempt at fellowship in Christ, but man cannot help himself’.
Brutus can’t help himself, neither can optimist - hence the heavy reliance on theoretical posturing. And I understand Brutus made that statement in regard to ‘man’ as a collective idea. More applicable to yourself there. And even more so to optimist...
But go on optimist - share your ‘theory’.
Also share how YOU arrived at the idea of ‘planet heaven’ and explain how it’s anything more than an idea ;);)
Yes, it sounds lovely and your imagination, although bordering on insane, is quite entertaining...
How have you gained the insight to not only understand but verify what happens when we die?! Please explain further the ‘sci fi wormhole’ - that is fascinating ;);)
And yes please tell us about your ‘theory’ which has been playing out exactly correct... according to you ;);)
When you say you ‘think’ you can answer questions regarding the time of the end and the mark of the beast - well, if you ‘think’ you can... I guess you can;);)
As Brutus said... ‘man cannot help himself’.
Such a broad and all encompassing theory that one.
One steeped in assumption, illusion and straight up bullshit.
Keep trying guys ;);)

"When you die your spirit descends into the heart of the earth and waits. Then if approved by God you are lifted up and go through the tunnel which is probably like a wormhole in Sci Fi. If unapproved you will wait for judgement"

Personally I prefer the "he knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake" school of faith.

Seeing as you asked Jelly Mocker...I'll give you some keys to help unlock things yourselves....This requires some Revelation research and deep thought.
Try and picture the disciple John on a prison Island trying to figure out what Jesus was showing him in the future 2000 years ago with no knowledge of our modern world.
A rough outline but some food for thought.
The first beast is a man empowered by Satan ( from the abyss)
The second empowered by the Vatican . The Vatican (Vaticaanus) means Divining Serpent (from the earth)
The symbols of Satan are the Dragon and the Serpent.
The image of the beast is probably a Quantum computer with A.I. think Skynet. It is given life and also speaks ...A.I. again. and Siri on steroids.
The worlds finance system will be controlled by a global bank using this quantum computer system...a quantum is 100,000,000 times faster than our best now. Just add A.I and you have a real treasure. Google and China already have them.
They are building two giant computers now , one in Brussels for the EU and one in America.
The most corrupt bank on earth is the Deutsche Bank, the biggest bank in Germany and one of in the world with assets of 3 Trillion dollars and is the one that financed the Nazis and sold all the stolen gold from the Jews to finance Hitler. They launder criminal money to this day. Their main share holder is now China (the dragon again) and everyone owes them money.
The swift code for the Deutsche Bank is ...you guessed it 666
Rome and the Vatican sit on 7 hills or mountains
2 of the last 4 popes were Hitler youth.
China the dragon will work with the serpent to bring about a cashless society with a central core and one leader the new anti christ.
The beast will require everyone to be implanted with an RF chip in their right hand or a detailed facial scan"fore head" or they will not be able to trade...Do not get this!
With no cash we will enter into a new age of slavery and the mind programming has already started with the banks and Dept stores selling fear under the covid banner.
The ten kings who give their power to the beast are the new world order which has already been decided by the Club of Rome years ago.
The Club of Rome is a global think tank that has decided to divide the world into 10 financial sectors with 10 leaders (the 10 kings) One of their members is Henry Kissinger who help start the EFTPOS system.
There's more but I'm tired...fact check the lot...sorry to wake you out of your sleepy world but ignorance never ends up bliss.

F. F. S.

We've just gone from standard discussions about faith straight to the netherworld of mental illness.

Be weird being in heaven surrounded by millions of spirits you never knew or would not want to know for a billion years.

Bit creepy.

Little baby spirits who died young with no life experience everywhere (are they still babies in heaven? If not who are they given they never developed a personality or language?). Huge numbers of old fart spirits who died old and grumpy. A thousand distant relatives hanging around all day wanting to reminisce or complain about stuff. Trump supporter spirits still pissed off at the "steal". Hillsong type spirits all smugly comparing how much money they made in real estate on earth. Annoyed bearded types wondering where the 72 virgins are. All with no job, no surf and a LOT of time on their hands.

Might be novel seeing the big fella in sky at last for a while and checking out heaven but after a month, 100 years, a million years or a billion years they would be bored silly and might be praying for oblivion.

In 1976, Italian economist Carlo Cipolla published a definitive essay called The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity. Although we prefer to focus on stupid behaviour rather than stupid people, we agree with his five laws:

- Always and inevitably, everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

- The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.

- A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

- Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget dealing with or associating with stupid people always and everywhere turns out to be a costly mistake.

- A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

Why is stupid behaviour so dangerous? Because it is irrational and so the outcome is unpredictable.

https://theconversation.com/would-you-do-this-at-home-why-we-are-more-li...

Just coming in on this thread a little late, but after reading Optimist's description of heaven: "I do know that it is a physical place with buildings plants trees water etc etc. and a city with 12 gates.".

First things that come to mind are:

Planning permissions, engineering standards for buildings etc. What's the approval process? Hopefully a little faster than the Tweed Council.

Plants and trees - are they native, or introduced species?

Water - are there provisions for drought conditions, or has a desal-plant been installed? If the latter, what are the ongoing environmental consequences?

Gates - in the absence of a stringent 24hr security arrangement, are surveillance cameras being used? If not I can recommend a good wholesaler that we use for our surfcams. 

Andy this is what I am finding most fascinating with all the pandemic reporting. For sure some stupid behaviour is putting risks/losses on others, although those doing it are seeing a net benefit for themselves, until they get busted. Eg those Brit skiers.

Hahaha
There’s more but you’re tired ;)

Who exactly is in the sleepy world??!!
But thank u for clearing things up...
Makes perfect sense to anyone who is out of their mind ;)

Keep pushing your imaginary ‘theories’...
Strangely obvious how you ignore the questions of how you came to these conclusions, who your teachers are and how exactly this so called divine knowledge was imparted to you...
Not sure facts can be checked if they aren’t facts! Just deluded presumptions based on your interpretation of past events and geared towards an imaginary future...
Good luck trying to convince anybody else of this absolute bullshit.
I’m not mocking you, I’m calling out dangerously mentally ill behaviour...
Give it a rest, take a good rest - and if this is the culmination of your ‘deep thought’ then maybe it’s time to try and expand your own ‘research’ and go beyond the narrow minded fantastical theories. Everything does work in theory and ignorance is bliss for anyone who can seriously even consider the mindless dribble you have presented above. The safety net is maybe that Jesus will forgive you because it’s people like you that do an immense disservice to ‘true christians’. Get out in the real world and try push this crap and see how far you get ;) .... or maybe go volunteer and help less fortunate people or dedicate your energy to a cause beyond selfish, self deluded imaginary scenarios.
It’s certainly an entertaining endeavour as you seem to truly believe it - and therein lies the sticking point... is what you believe actually real... or are you just another good story teller? Coz it’s one hell of a farkn story u got goin ;);)

jelly , yeah it's not easy to have faith in a God and a Bible.....it takes a lot of study and lotsa disappointments in finding what sits right with you as a person....
I personally have seen in my lifetime a full spectrum of man's hopes/desires /expectations ......and we ended up with Santa ( created by Coca Cola in the 20's ) and an Easter Bunny and chocolate.....dictators/Totalitarianism/communism and a broken thing called democracy which has been corrupted by Lobby groups and the desire to create profit...which in turn gives certain individuals and small groups money and power.....at any cost to the people , the planet's health......we are living this now....and that's why I question man's inherent failure to create anything lasting , whereas Jelly you just seem to happy with the state of affairs today....just wondering if you have kids?

And optimist...
I hope you read thermalben and andyM’s posts... just to lighten things up a bit if anything... I know u ain’t hearing me ;);)

You are wrong Brutus
And yes I do have kids...
As you were ;)

12 gates are a bit much. Easier to keep track of who's coming and going with just 1 or 2 and orderly queues.

Frog..... all those details, shhhh, we don't talk about details, just vague concepts. And the good book, it's all in the book

Frog, that's your vision of heaven , based on your life experiences.....what we are talking about is there a supernatural entity that did create the universe and all things living.........how the fuck would our tiny little intellects even comprehend that?
So the Supernatural Entity that some of us call God , has actually spoken to us , and even sent his son down to earth.....it's been documented and proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Jesus did exist and claimed to be the son of God....

Jelly you cannot prove I am wrong in having faith in a higher entity.......are you wrong when you believe that when you have a $50 note in your hand.....you have faith that someone will give you $50 worth of product or services , when in fact it's only worth 20c......
When you say mental illness what do you understand about mental illness and how it apply's to people who believe in God...especially when the alternative is to worship money and power ...Santa and the Easter Bunny?

therma....all good to mock other peoples beliefs , but what do you have to replace a Christians faith?
Santa/Easter Bunny , tooth fairy........maybe mother nature.......surfing......???

Do I need to have an equivalent?

How about just trying my best to be a decent bloke, good Dad etc? If I can achieve that, I'll be pretty happy with things.

Spend time with the people you love or simply immerse yourself in nature and you realise pretty quickly you don’t need confected stories about Arabian cult leaders who died 2000 years ago.

The claim that someone doesn’t have spirituality cause they don’t follow your particular spirituality is responsible for more deaths , chaos and mayhem than basically any other claim in the history of the world. If someone takes the piss out of your idea of religion then who gives a fuck ? If you’re so sure of it all then just chill and enjoy the certainty.

Brutus and others what does a Christian do when he/she Sins

Do you try to re right your errors or just ask forgiveness from the Lord ?

See my most recent post, an unnamed link that was easily overlooked, for a fair argument about (not) needing alternatives

Very entertaining

Udo, both.