COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster
Stok wrote:Old Dog is on the money...the real question is why do people who actually hold rational thoughts and listen to experts, post on this page....
I'm probably not one of those rational people you're referring to, but anyway...
In here I'm able to say things in an anonymous environment that I couldn't say in a personal or professional setting in real life. And I'm able to get things wrong (like I did today with one of the articles, although I tried to cover that up...) without repercussion, apart from BB coming down heavy on me here and there...
I also actually learn something new every day.
And in this anonymous environment people freely and bluntly say things to me including criticism and even abuse that no-one would say to me in real life.
I don't understand criticising other people for posting in these forums. One is free to not read or participate in them if they so choose.
btw sypkan nice post you have a smarter and more experienced perspective on the media than me and I learnt something valuable.
I'm pretty sure Clive Palmer doesn't believe any of the bullshit he says. And I'd be shocked if that fat old bastard isn't vaxxed 5 ways from sundown.
Clive's gig is to hoover up the idiot vote and deliver it to the LNP via preferences so he has a better chance of opening up climate destroying mines. It's always been about greed and useful idiots with the UAP.
The anti-vax idiots were always an easy target for that bastard. Heads filled with grand conspiracies and anti-government sentiment. Along comes Clive whipping up resentment and offering no solutions to any of the mob's self-created problems.
Miomir Kecmanovic to win the Aus Open. Walkover in round 1 when Novax gets the boot. Omicron aces the rest of his opponents. The only thing they return are positive RATS. Miomir walks on through and wins the title without so much as the swing of a racquet. Craig Tiley awards himself a ticket refund exemption and Serbia celebrates its no shot winner.
HOUSE REPUBLICANS RELEASE TEXT OF REDACTED FAUCI EMAILS ON COVID ORIGINS
NIH leaders advised scientists not to “mention a lab origin as that will just add fuel to the conspiracists,” one researcher told The Intercept. https://theintercept.com/2022/01/12/covid-origins-fauci-redacted-emails/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21177759-house-oversight-letter-...
Vic Local wrote:I'm pretty sure Clive Palmer doesn't believe any of the bullshit he says. And I'd be shocked if that fat old bastard isn't vaxxed 5 ways from sundown.
Clive's gig is to hoover up the idiot vote and deliver it to the LNP via preferences so he has a better chance of opening up climate destroying mines. It's always been about greed and useful idiots with the UAP.
The anti-vax idiots were always an easy target for that bastard. Heads filled with grand conspiracies and anti-government sentiment. Along comes Clive whipping up resentment and offering no solutions to any of the mob's self-created problems.
Unless something has changed big Clive will be giving preferences to Campbell Newman at the Liberal Democrats
https://amp.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/uap-leader-clive-palmer-a...
Straight talk tends to give more realistic expectations, greater trust and better strategy.
But the Danes got a simple over promise message as well as data and fear saturation:
"ANOTHER example: The vaccines are consistently referred to as our 'superweapon'. And our hospitals are called 'superhospitals'. Nevertheless, these super-hospitals are apparently maximally pressured, even though almost the entire population is armed with a super-weapon."
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/we-failed-danish-newspaper-apologizes...
Simplistic messaging helps get the vax rate up but it has consequences as we see around us.
Constant fear on a massive scale gets vax rates up and media ratings up but can lead to long term anxiety issues on a similar scale. Two close relatives now have anxiety issues linked to the endless scary covid stuff pushed by media and experts.
Supafreak wrote:
GOLD
burleigh has been posting in this thread, for I kid you not, ten hours straight. I know you keep telling us how fit you are, but I'm still amazed at your stamina.
burleigh wrote:Vic Local wrote:I'm pretty sure Clive Palmer doesn't believe any of the bullshit he says. And I'd be shocked if that fat old bastard isn't vaxxed 5 ways from sundown.
Clive's gig is to hoover up the idiot vote and deliver it to the LNP via preferences so he has a better chance of opening up climate destroying mines. It's always been about greed and useful idiots with the UAP.
The anti-vax idiots were always an easy target for that bastard. Heads filled with grand conspiracies and anti-government sentiment. Along comes Clive whipping up resentment and offering no solutions to any of the mob's self-created problems.Unless something has changed big Clive will be giving preferences to Campbell Newman at the Liberal Democrats
https://amp.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/uap-leader-clive-palmer-a...
Oh FFS Burleigh, you really are clueless mate.
This is good news, basically having a common cold type coronavirus in the last year or so may help give a bit of natural immunity to Covid-19
"Covid-19: Common cold may give some protection, study suggests
Natural defences against a common cold could offer some protection against Covid-19, too, research suggests."
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59911257
Or
"Cross-reactive memory T cells associate with protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in COVID-19 contacts"
indo-dreaming wrote:Thats not true there have been a number of studies showing the body does gain natural immunity to Covid after infection, its even been said natural immunity may be better than vaccine immunity.
But natural immunity gained from wuhan or delta strain doesnt seem to work as well for Omicron, but Omicron immunity should work well for Omicron reinfection.
Yeah, that's probably true, I'm not an expert in immunology. But, I do know the term is being completely misappropriated by anti vaxxers, and is being used as an excuse to justify their fear of needles.
As I said, it's only the idiot grifters who are shouting the natural immunity solution, not reputable experts. You know....the same ones who love horse deformed pills....
Supafreak wrote:
Sure, ask any question.....but if he answer doesn't make sense to you, swallow your massive ego fuelled by poor education and accept there are people more qualified and intellectual than you.
As for doing your own research....well, go for it, but learn about your own biases, blindspots and understand your ability to actually comprehend what you're researching.
There are people who've devoted their whole lives to pandemic preparedness, viruses, immunology and medical science - and guess what, the ones who still have shreds of dignity are begging people to get vaccinated.
On the other hand, there are wellness instagrammers who have worked as waitresses, personal trainers, models etc. before becoming full time influencers who, and have spent about 20 whole hours listing to anti vax podcasts - and guess what, these plebs are sprouting the anti vax natural immunity BS.
Ummmm stok , I’m vaccinated, have been since 13th August 2021 AZ , I listen to both sides , doctors and scientists that are for and against and their reasons, should I just blindly do as the government says ? Do you believe the government really cares about my health ? I keep an open mind about many issues , can you show me the science in vaccination for healthy 5 year olds risk versus benefit for omicron ? If you think I’ve got a massive ego because I don’t swallow everything that’s been fed to me by pharma, government and media then I think you’re extremely naive.
Stok , by people that have devoted their whole lives to immunology and vaccines do you mean Professor Robert Clancy? Or doesn’t he count ?
@stok , so do we ignore this doctor and his opinion ? Is he just a wack job ? https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2022/01/should-teens-get-boos... But not all the experts I spoke with agreed. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, told me that getting boosted would not be worth the risk for the average healthy 17-year-old boy. Offit advised his own son, who is in his 20s, not to get a third dose. Even with Omicron’s ability to sidestep some of the protection vaccines provide, Offit said, he believes that his son is well protected against serious illness with two shots, so a third just isn’t necessary.
haha , I'm from the Government and I'm here to help...
Supafreak - it is actually ok to trust the government. Media facing politicians do a horrible job of continuously trying to perpetuate an image which gains them the best chance of winning more votes, which often makes them appear untrustworthy - but the organisations which advise the government are reputable. And are frankly all we have. And this is who I'm recommending you listen to. Them, and your doctor.
You may have the time, and capabilities to properly research and weigh up different media articles quoting doctors from varying sides of the political spectrum, but at the end of the day, such articles are designed to play to some form of bias, to attract views etc. It's certainly worth staying as informed as you can be, but unless you're actually capable of reviewing medical studies, independently you're dancing around the edges (maybe you are, I don't know).
You're free to make your own decisions, and vaccinations for kids, and subsequent boosters, are not being forced upon anyone. I know doctors however who have vaccinated their kids, so yeah, trust who you will I guess.
@stok , what’s your bias ? To listen to government appointed health ‘ experts ‘ and nobody else ? My doctor advised me against getting a booster , the ER doctor recommended I get it , I’m going to talk to my cardiologist about it . I really don’t see the point however and every 10 weeks is a bit much . If my daughter had underlying health problems then I would probably get her vaccinated but as she’s perfectly healthy she won’t be part of Pfizer’s experiment. I would consider a protein based vaccine if one were available, unfortunately in Australia we don’t have that choice. My wife has not had her period for 4 months now since getting her Pfizer vaccine that she never wanted but because she cant get on a plane to go home without one she succumbed .
Yes, you could say my bias is to chose to listen to experts, most of which advise on government policy, and to reject opinions from other sources.
Bias is everywhere. You're contrarian commentators and the scientists they dig up to promote their alternative views hold biases too.
I'm personally pretty biased by association. For example, when I see one nation senator Malcolm Roberts, a will known fuckwit who's anti science stance is blindingly obvious, talking about why we don't need lockdowns or vaccines, I pretty much know that the contrarian viewpoint is muddled and corrupted already.
Also, since we're in a pandemic, I'd also be concious of how I share my opinion. This isn't to stiffle debate, but to just understand that sometimes a little bit of unscientific, politicallly motivated doubt can go a long way. And doubt, is a killer. The movie don't look up, for all its failings as a entertaining movie, did hit this nail on the head pretty well. Even in the face of the most bleeding obvious existential threat, you could pretty much now be certain that there'd be someone raising doubt about any scientific claim, and always it's politically motivated.
stok I think what you mean is your bias is to accept the direction and opinions the government decides to listen to and run with.
There is a lot of disagreement and debate between the experts. When we face a choice point, the experts all thrash it out and then the government decides on a course of action.
Consequently, only one set of expert views is taken, all the others are thus discarded. The experts whose views the government didn't take up are still actually experts though.
And a lot of nations decide to listen to the views of the other experts the government didn't run with, and hence take a different course of action. There's a wide variety of responses to covid between nations, all following the advice of their own experts. These nations are doing pretty well too.
You seem to be making the mistake of labelling, criticising and discrediting the experts whose views were not taken up by Australia as some kind of whack job nutters who are in fact wrong, biased, and have some kind of political agenda.
You're also therefore labelling and discrediting entire nations who took a different course of action and listened to the opinions of different experts.
That's extremely naive, biased, one-dimensional, one-sided and simplistic, and indeed very disrespectful to a lot of experts and entire nations.
I wish we lived in such a simplistic world in which there was in fact one uniformly agreed upon, correct and best advice, but there isn't. There's a lot of uncertainty and unknowns in a pandemic situation.
What you're really describing is more like an expert worshipping religious belief scenario like people who accept a certain religion completely don't accept other religions.
gsco wrote:stok I think what you mean is your bias is to accept the direction and opinions the government decides to listen to and run with.
There is a lot of disagreement and debate between the experts. When we face a choice point, the experts all thrash it out and then the government decides on a course of action.
Consequently, only one set of expert views is taken, all the others are thus discarded. The experts whose views the government didn't take up are still actually experts though.
And a lot of nations decide to listen to the views of the other experts the government didn't run with, and hence take a different course of action. There's a wide variety of responses to covid between nations, all following the advice of their own experts. These nations are doing pretty well too.
You seem to be making the mistake of labelling, criticising and discrediting the experts whose views were not taken up by Australia as some kind of whack job nutters who are in fact wrong, biased, and have some kind of political agenda.
You're also therefore labelling and discrediting entire nations who took a different course of action and listened to the opinions of different experts.
That's extremely naive, biased, one-dimensional, one-sided and simplistic, and indeed very disrespectful to a lot of experts and entire nations.
I wish we lived in such a simplistic world in which there was in fact one uniformly agreed upon, correct and best advice, but there isn't. There's a lot of uncertainty and unknowns in a pandemic situation.
What you're really describing is more like an expert worshipping religious belief scenario like people who accept a certain religion completely don't accept other religions.
“stok I think what you mean is your bias is to accept the direction and opinions the government decides to listen to and run with.”
Geeez, you just don’t get it. That is not at all what stok thinks.
gsco, your bias is showing, a bias easily swayed by listening to halfwits.
Roadkill wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-i...
Yep all for choice whether you have vaccine or not and it not being mandatory. However with that decision you go to end of queue for hospital bed in my view..... Children excluded, they should have priority regardless.
Choices have consequences...... You can make your choices in life, but not choose the consequences....
I have family members working in hospital system and they are well and truly over the anti Vax crowd...
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-i...
Yep all for choice whether you have vaccine or not and it not being mandatory. However with that decision you go to end of queue for hospital bed in my view..... Children excluded, they should have priority regardless.
Choices have consequences...... You can make your choices in life, but not choose the consequences....
I have family members working in hospital system and they are well and truly over the anti Vax crowd...
In general I think that is fair but saving a life is more important. Not sure why a cancer patient would be in ICU - I'm not sure I trust this aricle from the Guardian - you dont move people out of ICU unless they are recovering.
monkeyboy wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-i...
Yep all for choice whether you have vaccine or not and it not being mandatory. However with that decision you go to end of queue for hospital bed in my view..... Children excluded, they should have priority regardless.
Choices have consequences...... You can make your choices in life, but not choose the consequences....
I have family members working in hospital system and they are well and truly over the anti Vax crowd...In general I think that is fair but saving a life is more important. Not sure why a cancer patient would be in ICU - I'm not sure I trust this aricle from the Guardian - you dont move people out of ICU unless they are recovering.
Why wouldn’t a cancer patient require ICU care? Plenty do, and are discharged from ICU to continue treatment…and then go on to live productively for many years.
Do you not understand this?
McGowan's spiel
"but a lot of the things we take for granted and the things we enjoy, they won't be able to do and that's because we want to protect them and save their lives, and we want to protect other people from their transmissibility"
So he's blatantly lying about the transmissibility. Just to begin with.
The media repeatedly use the term "antiwaxxers " as derogatory and condescending. Looks like no pubs bars or gyms for me. Im still allowed to the supermarket but I'm....highly transmissible so be careful!
Shitty link here to media trash https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10388213/Covid-Australia-WA-war...
Stok said “ Yes, you could say my bias is to chose to listen to experts, most of which advise on government policy, and to reject opinions from other sources. “ ………..What did our Government expert have to say about RATs ? The technology, however, is unlikely to be used in Australia.
“Here in Australia, we do not have that emergency that they have in the U.S.,” said Dr. Paul Kelly, acting chief medical officer. “The other thing that is different here in Australia is we have a very large and deliberately expanded laboratory network using the gold standard of PCR (polymerase chain reaction) testing. We have plenty of capacity there.” https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_us-fda-approves-australian-c... Can anyone remember if it was a government health expert that allowed the Ruby princess to dock and unload its passengers ? Shall we discuss masks and the flip flop messages from government health experts ? Yeah right don’t question the government or health experts they haven’t put a foot wrong yet . FFS how pathetic.
Nor sure whether to post this on the covid thread or the all things religion thread.
WTF was Hillsong Church thinking?
If they were trying to host a potential super spreader event, mission accomplished. Every fucking rule in the book broken and these evangelical grifters deny it despite the damning footage.
But let's take a step back. Apparently every person at that event gets RAT tested, so it's safe to assume Hillsong have / had thousands of tests just lying around.
Did they A. give them to vulnerable people like true Christians would. B) Give them to essential services people for the benefit of society or C. Give them to the least vulnerable demographic so they can run a for-profit summer camp?
Just when you thought Djokervic or Scumo were the two biggest flogs in the country, Hillsong makes a really strong charge to make the top spot on the podium.
There's two possible scenarios here: either nobody in the Hillsong Cult considered giving those tests away to more needy people, or anyone raising concerns about pissing away essential RATs on a frickin concert was ignored.
FFS hillsong, WTAF were you greedy religious fucks thinking?
I’ve never seen “antiwaxxers” written in the media, the only people I’ve noticed who say “wax or waxxed” instead of using the correct pronunciation are the anti-vax people on my social media.
But back to the WA premier. Far out how divisive can you get. He’s full on isn’t he.
Roadkill wrote:monkeyboy wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-i...
Yep all for choice whether you have vaccine or not and it not being mandatory. However with that decision you go to end of queue for hospital bed in my view..... Children excluded, they should have priority regardless.
Choices have consequences...... You can make your choices in life, but not choose the consequences....
I have family members working in hospital system and they are well and truly over the anti Vax crowd...In general I think that is fair but saving a life is more important. Not sure why a cancer patient would be in ICU - I'm not sure I trust this aricle from the Guardian - you dont move people out of ICU unless they are recovering.
Why wouldn’t a cancer patient require ICU care? Plenty do, and are discharged from ICU to continue treatment…and then go on to live productively for many years.
Do you not understand this?
Yes, unfortunately I do.
Yep Goofy. Full on is putting it mildly!
bluediamond wrote:Yep Goofy. Full on is putting it mildly!
Yeah I’ll say.
Just out of interest bd, are you planning on doing things like travelling internationally again? Things that you’re almost certainly going to have to be vaccinated for?
Like when do you go ok fuck it, I’m getting the jab so I can go do this…
Supafreak wrote: “ Can anyone remember if it was a government health expert that allowed the Ruby princess to dock and unload its passengers ?” Border force made the call.
blackers wrote:Supafreak wrote: “ Can anyone remember if it was a government health expert that allowed the Ruby princess to dock and unload its passengers ?” Border force made the call.
are you sure about that blackers ?
https://theconversation.com/ruby-princess-inquiry-blames-nsw-health-offi... The inquiry commissioned by the Berejiklian government into the Ruby Princess COVID-19 disaster has laid blame on NSW health officials, who made “inexcusable” and “inexplicable” mistakes. It also exonerated the Australian Border Force. …….. Walker found serious mistakes and misjudgements on the part of health officials. He said that in light of all the information the NSW health expert panel had, “the decision to assess the risk of the Ruby Princess as ‘low risk’ – meaning, in effect, ‘do nothing’ – is as inexplicable as it is unjustifiable. It was a serious mistake”.
monkeyboy wrote:Roadkill wrote:monkeyboy wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-i...
Yep all for choice whether you have vaccine or not and it not being mandatory. However with that decision you go to end of queue for hospital bed in my view..... Children excluded, they should have priority regardless.
Choices have consequences...... You can make your choices in life, but not choose the consequences....
I have family members working in hospital system and they are well and truly over the anti Vax crowd...In general I think that is fair but saving a life is more important. Not sure why a cancer patient would be in ICU - I'm not sure I trust this aricle from the Guardian - you dont move people out of ICU unless they are recovering.
Why wouldn’t a cancer patient require ICU care? Plenty do, and are discharged from ICU to continue treatment…and then go on to live productively for many years.
Do you not understand this?
Yes, unfortunately I do.
well if you understand it, why did you say "Not sure why a cancer patient would be in ICU" ?
Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
goofyfoot wrote:bluediamond wrote:Yep Goofy. Full on is putting it mildly!
Yeah I’ll say.
Just out of interest bd, are you planning on doing things like travelling internationally again? Things that you’re almost certainly going to have to be vaccinated for?
Like when do you go ok fuck it, I’m getting the jab so I can go do this…
Not having a go at you gents just your comments remined me, you should have heard the manager at my mothers nursing home go off when we were discussing possible coming vax requirements to see residents last year.
Quote or translated version, "There are people wont hesitate to get vaccinated to travel but wont get vaccinated to come in here, true story"
Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
How are the TGA funded? I've recently sent them an email about a “decision notice to not amend” in regards to a substance rescheduling as their justifications for not down-scheduling two substances didn't really stack up at all. Considering the significant body of research, and statistical significance of the research trials, it was a very odd decision. Can they accept funding from private/commercial organizations? If that's the case, then their decision makes perfect sense.
nsw, 63,018 new COVID-19 cases and 29 deaths
I wonder what the real number are.
Supafreak wrote:Stok said “ Yes, you could say my bias is to chose to listen to experts, most of which advise on government policy, and to reject opinions from other sources. “ ………..What did our Government expert have to say about RATs ? The technology, however, is unlikely to be used in Australia.
“Here in Australia, we do not have that emergency that they have in the U.S.,” said Dr. Paul Kelly, acting chief medical officer. “The other thing that is different here in Australia is we have a very large and deliberately expanded laboratory network using the gold standard of PCR (polymerase chain reaction) testing. We have plenty of capacity there.” https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_us-fda-approves-australian-c... Can anyone remember if it was a government health expert that allowed the Ruby princess to dock and unload its passengers ? Shall we discuss masks and the flip flop messages from government health experts ? Yeah right don’t question the government or health experts they haven’t put a foot wrong yet . FFS how pathetic.
Science evolves, but not due to loud mouthed commentators whinging about losing their rights. It evolves due to further science and review.
Unfortunately, some idiotic anti gov/anti vax commentators have managed to retrospectively claim 'wins' regarding what has happened with covid.....you know the people, the ones who bang on about 'they said it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve, now what'....or.....'yep, didn't we tell you you'd need a booster every 6 months for the rest of your life'.
This doesn't make them right, they're just idiots with no understanding of how decision making and risk analysis works.
Also - Paul Kelly's comments were made at a time when we did have covid under control, in a time probably when we had low vaccination rates.
You see, governments make mistakes, as do scientists - and we hold them accountable. You think those fringe dwelling scientists who go against the grain have any accountability for the shit they've said? They don't, they just get forgotten about. That's the beauty of being a commentator on the side - it's fucken easy. I work in a design field, and the actual designer on the project has the hardest job, because they have to deal with review comments - people who swing in left and right and tell them how to do it better, without being fully aware of all the moving parts. This is what's happening here.
The flip flopping and pointing out of errors you've highlighted show how tightly government messaging is scrutinised. 'Flip flopping' in this case is also a politicised term - we're dealing with a novel pandemic the likes of which none of us have seen in our life times, a more palatable term would have been to 'pivot' our strategy around masks to suit the latest advice from scientists (which is actually the correct thing to do) - but no, the anti vaxxers/anti maskers took that as their big win, and the anti gov crowd lapped it up as well.
Sure, keep believing that you're capabilities of strategic risk analysis and mitigation of novel pandemics outweighs that of the corrupted, dumb government advisory bodies.
gsco wrote:No, my view is the abc is publishing mindless, irresponsible, misleading junk that is out of touch with the current reality, and at the same time it is also providing free advertising space that it should be charging money for.
I agree with the qld chief health officer and the nation’s current trajectory of facing covid head on even if we’ve largely stuffed it up
Yeah the abc unfortunately got slaughtered a few years ago. They used to be great and best of what we had here, but it changed . There’s the odd good piece of journalism but defunding and censorship killed a lot of it.
@stok , are our hospitals full of healthy 5 to 11 year olds that are unvaccinated and have fallen victim to omicron ? I know a lot have been infected, how many are in a hospital bed as a result ? Do you see a future where kids are vaccinated annually for covid ?
Ben Harding wrote:Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
How are the TGA funded? I've recently sent them an email about a “decision notice to not amend” in regards to a substance rescheduling as their justifications for not down-scheduling two substances didn't really stack up at all. Considering the significant body of research, and statistical significance of the research trials, it was a very odd decision. Can they accept funding from private/commercial organizations? If that's the case, then their decision makes perfect sense.
To find out how they are funded simply go to their website, it’s no secret . Funding. The TGA annual budget is approximately $165 million and we operate predominantly on a cost recovery basis. The regulatory costs are recovered through fees and charges levied on sponsors and manufacturers of therapeutic goods. https://www.tga.gov.au/publication/tga-business-plan-2019-20
Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
Supa, everyone makes mistakes, particularly in the rapidly changing circumstances of this pandemic. As has been discussed here ad nauseum there are many contradictory viewpoints on this, lots of contrary opinions by different experts. I dont think ATAGI are infallible (clearly not) but they are well placed as experts in their fields, to judge the evidence, better placed than you or I. Their recommendations have changed with the emergence of new evidence. Are they the pawns of big pharma? Not sure that there is anything that really supports that. I think it is wrong to conflate the political applications of their advice with the advice and assessment process.
I can disagree with you but respect that you have a different view. We have been able to keep it civil to date and I hope we can continue to do so. I also hope you have been able to get back in the water after your recent health scare. Take care.
blackers wrote:Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
Supa, everyone makes mistakes, particularly in the rapidly changing circumstances of this pandemic. As has been discussed here ad nauseum there are many contradictory viewpoints on this, lots of contrary opinions by different experts. I dont think ATAGI are infallible (clearly not) but they are well placed as experts in their fields, to judge the evidence, better placed than you or I. Their recommendations have changed with the emergence of new evidence. Are they the pawns of big pharma? Not sure that there is anything that really supports that. I think it is wrong to conflate the political applications of their advice with the advice and assessment process.
I can disagree with you but respect that you have a different view. We have been able to keep it civil to date and I hope we can continue to do so. I also hope you have been able to get back in the water after your recent health scare. Take care.
Yeah no problem blackers , prefer keeping it civil , respect your opinion also , surfed yesterday for 2 hours and only caught 3 waves , shit fight at the superwank , hit it at 5 am this morning and caught 1 wave and came in ,felt off and zero energy . Resting up today and will stick to long walks in the morning instead until I see cardiologist.
Supafreak wrote:Ben Harding wrote:Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
How are the TGA funded? I've recently sent them an email about a “decision notice to not amend” in regards to a substance rescheduling as their justifications for not down-scheduling two substances didn't really stack up at all. Considering the significant body of research, and statistical significance of the research trials, it was a very odd decision. Can they accept funding from private/commercial organizations? If that's the case, then their decision makes perfect sense.
To find out how they are funded simply go to their website, it’s no secret . Funding. The TGA annual budget is approximately $165 million and we operate predominantly on a cost recovery basis. The regulatory costs are recovered through fees and charges levied on sponsors and manufacturers of therapeutic goods. https://www.tga.gov.au/publication/tga-business-plan-2019-20
I had a look at this the other day, it does seem vague, but not overly underhanded or suspect.
"The regulatory costs are recovered through fees and charges levied on sponsors and manufacturers of therapeutic goods."
I would assume their fees and charges would have a standardized Schedule of Rates? No real avenue for paper bag money is there? Not advertised (obviously) anyway. Do you know different Supa?
Ben Harding wrote:Supafreak wrote:Ben Harding wrote:Supafreak wrote:blackers wrote:Fair play Supan, my mistake. But we are talking Health Dept ie bureaucrats, not advisors like ATAGI.
So ATAGI are incapable of making mistakes ? The trials that ATAGI are giving the green light for vaccination of 5 to 11 year olds isn’t for the omicron varient, does this matter in your opinion ? They also allowed remdesivir as a treatment while the WHO doesn’t recommend it . Can you see how health experts differ in their decisions ? So is Professor Paul Kelly a bureaucrat or advisor ? Any idea how the TGA is funded blackers ? I’ll give you a hint , it’s not Australian taxpayers.
How are the TGA funded? I've recently sent them an email about a “decision notice to not amend” in regards to a substance rescheduling as their justifications for not down-scheduling two substances didn't really stack up at all. Considering the significant body of research, and statistical significance of the research trials, it was a very odd decision. Can they accept funding from private/commercial organizations? If that's the case, then their decision makes perfect sense.
To find out how they are funded simply go to their website, it’s no secret . Funding. The TGA annual budget is approximately $165 million and we operate predominantly on a cost recovery basis. The regulatory costs are recovered through fees and charges levied on sponsors and manufacturers of therapeutic goods. https://www.tga.gov.au/publication/tga-business-plan-2019-20
I had a look at this the other day, it does seem vague, but not overly underhanded or suspect.
"The regulatory costs are recovered through fees and charges levied on sponsors and manufacturers of therapeutic goods."
I would assume their fees and charges would have a standardized Schedule of Rates? No real avenue for paper bag money is there? Not advertised anyway.
I just find it strange that an agency is funded by the companies its regulating . The FDA in the US was 40 years ago funded by the taxpayer, now 40% of funding is from pig pharma, sort if leaves itself open in my opinion . People complain of corruption in government but seem to think it couldn’t happen in health agencies , weird .
I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..
There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia