Interesting stuff

Rudd's move on the refugees was when the ALP lost me. I nearly voted 1 greens and left the preferences blank because I didn't want to give my vote to a party that locks up refugees. But effectively not voting at all was a pissant move.

There's so many better options than incarcerating refugees to send a message to people smugglers. It's a fucken disgrace what we do to them.

Howard never batted for a have a go GST hardship exemption.
Rich folk are insured, just dump it on the roadside & get a new one..Sorted!

Pensioner victims of floods & fire are the service tax slaves of Howard's GST.
Each Flood & Fire Ravaged Fridge = 20% Goods & Service Govt take...Thanx Gran!
GST compounds to 40% in rural Home rebuild with Govt grab of $200,000 avg.
Owners are also responsible for burnt out power poles (20,000 each + GST)
Smoko & State's Goods/service take is over 50% per fire victim (inside & out).
Smoko & Premiers are sucking blood from dead & injured Aussies.
Fire Sales to ward off recession & Heartless tax take will pay off deficit 100x over.

tbb is calling out GST scam for the victims...
NO TAX CHARGE on Fire victims Power / Water REPLACEMENT
NO 10% - 50% compounding GST on HARDSHIP.
NO 50% Govt Take from Fire Victims!
Stand together Oz...save victims from incoming pack of Howard's GST Vultures.
NO GST on near dead Aussies!

P.S. Note to Libs : You know what you can do with your candles!

Well 28 years of economic growth aint to be sneezed at, and I'd obviously be lying if I said I haven't benefitted, but despite what the old wives say I think we have to look this gift house in the mouth.

These riches weren't crafted, they were largely dug up and sold to market. And not even dug up by us, where we'd maximise the windfall, maybe set up a *cough cough* sovereign fund, but just divvied up to overseas interests who pay minimal tax, sometimes none.

There's something unsettling about the ease of it, and how clever we think we are because of it.

Even more so when, like now, some chickens are coming home to roost and we haven't future proofed the country. In fact, we've done the opposite of future proofing it, whatever that's called.

Follow Sean Doherty on IG as he exposes rats in the ranks:

"And here they come. While the country is still burning the paid mouthpieces of the fossil fuel industry are busy reassuring us these fires are cool and normal. Nothing to see here. Nothing to do with us. Nothing to do with climate change. Australia has always burned, deal with it. You may not recognise Bindi Gove because you’re not supposed to. She’s a paid lobbyist for the oil and gas industry. She was once the chief of staff for Labor Resources Minister Martin Ferguson, who carved up the Bight and sold it to Big Oil before leaving parliament and two weeks later becoming the Chair of the oil and gas lobby group here in Australia. More recently Bindi has been working with @Equinor to help get their Bight well approved. This is a sighting of her in Ceduna last year. Her role was only disclosed publicly when she was forced to list on the Foreign Influence Register, Equinor being majority owned by the Norwegian State. The Guardian describes her role this way: “Gove’s lobbying activities listed on the foreign interests register include meetings with the Australian energy minister, the industry minister, shadow portfolio ministers and the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority.” I cant recall anyone opposed to Equinor’s plans getting an invite to meet with any of these officials, but hey that’s life in Australia. As you can see, Bindi’s been busy behind the scenes, but not content with facilitating Equinor’s approval in the Bight she’s now doing some freelance gaslighting on behalf of the oil and gas lobby as Australia burns. Great work Bindi, Smoko’s Quiet Australians thank you for your tireless efforts."

"28 years of economical growth"

Which comes on the back of extensive environmental damage, a lot of which may be irreversible.

And now we're only just starting to pay the piper.

If that's success to you Indo, you're even more short-sighted than I thought.

Blowie, don't go the ol' Stawman bollocks with me...again.

Your political nous is as laughable as your reference to Joel Fitzgerald (now fixed in the edit. Better than your old standby...the "," I guess)

You've got one notion - immigration (and we never, ever, ever got an explanation regarding what that catch-all lazy phrase actually entails from you) - and your voting, especially One Nation, actively gave, and with Palmer and the like, continue to give us the Libs. Huzzah! Lower house majority and their friendlies enabling them in the senate (for the most part).

How good is Scotty from Marketing and his merry disciples?!

Hey, at least V.I. owns that. He's a right w(h)inger and Scotty from Marketing superfan. What're your scrambling excuses...again?

@VC that's the difference between major party's and fringe party's, majors have to deal with reality when in power, fringe parties can say what they like to get votes because they never have to deal with real life issues.

Rudd didn't have a choice he farked up and needed drastic change to stop the bleeding, if he hadn't, no body knows what the numbers would have stopped at and if he had accepted those who came by boat he might have had to keep raising our refugee intake quota to who knows what, and he would have also had to stop all offshore resettlement programs, programs that give all refugees some chance of a new life but also focus on highly persecuted groups and stateless refugees, because there would be no spots left for them .

Again Indo, it's totally clear that it's the two majors who aren't dealing with reality and the infuriating part is that it's a conscious effort.

Something Indo said in the anti-vaxxer thread got me thinking.

Some people equated anti-vax thinking with climate change denial and Indo poo-poohed it.

Now, if the science is correct, and human induced climate change really does bite and bite hard, causing death and destruction as it has in Australia (increased severity and length of bushfire seasons being one of the main symptoms science has warned about in Aus), then I wonder if this concept of "Climate Criminals" might take hold.

I'm already seeing it in the media and on signposts.

Will those largely responsible will be held to account?

I think, at the least these bushfires have completely cooked climate change denialism. I noticed at my fam Xmas party even the normally rabid right wing uncle has changed his talk.
It's becoming a very unsustainable position to hold as the evidence mounts up day by horrific day.

Andy unfortunately all things have positives and negatives growth brings with it more people, houses, water use industry, farming etc.

We do deal with the negatives better than most countries though.

Good luck with dealing with the major culprit Freeride, even Greeta is too scared to talk about China

The thought has crossed my mind a few times too, Steve. If governments wont act, then as is happening with increasing frequency, the private sector will step into the breech, in this instance the legal fraternity.

And in the mid to longer term Indo, we haven't even begun to get the balance right.

I really do think that flippant comments like yours come from a place of immense complacency and dare I say it, privilege.

"We do deal with the negatives better than most countries though."

I really don't think so, from population growth to land clearing, water management, infrastructure, education, communication, human rights - on so many fronts we're languishing way down a lot of lists Indo.

yeah, in a sense, I do have some small sympathy for Smoko.

The carbon is in the atmosphere now, not much he can do about it.

Ten years ago, yes. Now, he needs to pray for rain like the rest of us.

Nah, no sympathy. 

Not for someone who stood next to Spud Dutton when he made the joke about Pacific islands going under on the microphone.

Shoulda sat that black-hearted nightshade on his arse there and then.

dunno if this is real and not enhanced but pretty crazy shit if it is

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3136671029681650&id=10000016352929...

There's a shitload him and his government can do FR.

Faark - reckon that's legit Syppo?

I haven't looked at the right wing press for a while, what are they saying Indo?

Is Smoko being portrayed heroically? Are they taking aim at the messengers, like you?

get fucked indo. How much of the extra gas in the atmosphere that caused this came from China? Trace the whole volume of what's up there and see how much comes from China and how much from the rest of us. It aint majority China. We kick started this 150+ years ago and we've done fuck all about it despite decades of warnings.

It's a global fucken problem caused by everyone and has to be solved by everyone. That includes us. I read something the other day with an American pollie saying they shouldnt have to do anything because china shoudl act first. Americans are saying that. It's a fucken joke and if people want to hide behind, "oh but we make hardly any emissions we can't do anything", while the country is on fire because of climate change...well fuck them.

I thought the LNP and their cronies were the party of responsibility. Seems pretty piss poor and socialist minded to expect china to bail us out of the problem we helped create. Fucken bullshit.

I thought the end of that second sentence was going to end "out of your mouth".

The Betoota Advocate isn't even satire anymore!

https://m.betootaadvocate.com/breaking-news/heroic-pm-receives-standing-...

Thanks for the link Facto. More bullshit from the Murdoch "press". Pity about some of the contributors on these forums whom will be lapping it up !

"From Mogareeka, Bega River, north to Bermagui, remaining residents are currently being told to "leave now". "We can not protect your properties tomorrow".

That's a lot of country and coast.

Sounds to me like they're gonna let that area go and concentrate resources on the Moruya to Narooma stretch, all of which have fires burning just to the west which will advance towards the coast when tomorrow's nor'wester kicks.

My Brother and his wife live inland from Narooma at the top of the estuary. Two days ago the fires were 15km to the west of them. They have decided to stay and protect their house tomorrow. I'm very worried for their safety.

I hope their decision was borne out of local knowledge at how the fire might act in nearby country, and that they have a good 'last resort' plan in place, because the RFS spread chart is dire.

My Bro is an experienced campaigner. He is set up with gennies, fuel, pumps, reliable water supply etc. Their house is in a reasonably advantagious position. But I'm still worried.

Wishing your family and everyone else the best in this shitstorm Matlock. Stay safe all.

jeez who to believe? a climate scientist
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/03/we-are-seeing-the-...

or Denier in Chief Tones?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jan/03/tony-abbott-forme...

and yeah, best of British and godspeed to anyone in harms way out there.

There is also this.

Apparently he knows a fair bit about climate etc.

Thats heavy Matlock hoping they have a good independent water supply, roof sprinklers and a safe area if all fails I had all of that but would never stay if the temp was over 40 with strong winds wishing everyone a safe day.

Thanks guys . I will let you now how they fare.

Let's see now.........who to believe a scientist or a politician??
Think I'll stick with the science thanks.

vascectomy-blot..

I don't know what fantasy land you live in or where you learnt mathematics but the reality is China makes up 27.5% of global emissions by far that greatest percentage of any country, so maybe ease up on whatever you are smoking.

BTW i should add although China is signed to the Paris agreement it is allowed to increase emissions until 2030.

USA comes in second at 14.8% (Not even signed to the Paris agreement)

India 7.6%

Russia 4.8% (Just signed to the Paris agreement in late 2019 but can still increase emissions)

Japan 3.1%

Germany 2.0%

Iran 1.9%

And then more than half a dozen countries before we pop up at 1.1%

We are sometimes listed as 1.3% but then China is sometimes listed as 29.%, pick whatever figures you like they are all fairly similar, im happy to say 1.3% if you want. (i tried to get 2019 figures, but even recent articles are all over the place)

Point is 1.1% or 1.3% of 100% is irrelevant if Australia had zero emissions for all its history the issue would still be same.

But you cant get this through your thick head...why?????? i don't know, it's not even debatable.

Off course you will come back and say but but but per capita Australia emissions are one of the highest.

Well the atmosphere doesn't give a shit about per capita emissions, not to mention part of the reason our emissions are so high is because people like you have prevented us from having Nuclear like most developed countries in the world.

It should have happened a long time ago, we are one of three major uranium reserves and have one of the most stable geographic countries on earth. (anyway we have discussed this so please lets not go there again)

People like you have also opposed Hyrdo electric schemes in the past too.

Both are major forms of non carbon emission energy for many countries, compared to these countries we are now behind the eight ball if we had done exactly the same as them years ago it would now be 100% realistic for us to reach a 100% carbon free emissions from energy sources you would expect between 2030 to 2050, but now we are all going to have to listen to people like you whinge for years and years and we are basically crossing our fingers waiting for storage tech to catch up.

Anyway seeing you will want to talk per capita as I've mentioned countless times and sick of mentioning, but has to be pointed out.

Per capita Australia has the highest uptake of roof top solar in the world, already around 2.4 million of 9 million households, this might slow or speed up at times but generally speaking the rate of take up is increasing.

Started by incentives, yes mostly under Labor, but it's now a snow ball effect, it doesn't need fucking with it's how it should be driven as naturally as possible by economics.

Now as i have mentioned countless times before in the last few years per capita Australia has the highest uptake of renewables in the world, this article says up to three times faster than any other country. https://theconversation.com/australia-is-the-runaway-global-leader-in-bu...

Yes it also has a link to an other article saying this looks like its slowing down, like anything there will be times when the uptake is fast other times it is slower, but end of the day the uptake is always rising.

So to say Australia is doing nothing is complete bullshit, what you mean to say is Australia is not getting involved in dodgy shifting of money through taxes and credits to fudge emission figures, myself and other say great, because IMHO and others opinions much of this area is just a scam and many people are trying to get rich of this area, so yeah off course they are pissed when we dont feed them our money.

The success of these schemes has also been variable, but seeing how fast our renewable uptake is, it's quite clear we don't need them.

Now the thing clueless people like you don't understand is there needs to be a sensible balance between reducing carbon emissions and keeping the economy ticking over.

This is not easy especially when you are a resource rich country and your biggest exports are coal and Iron ore and other areas that cause emissions like mining, natural gas, petroleum products, meat exports etc...(add to that id expect natural gas exports are increasing due to countries shifting from coal to gas, Guys article this morning showed how UK has done this)

Right or wrong Australia also has a very high immigration rate 1.7% of population compared to 0.6% in places like USA and UK and this also doesn't help as more people creates more demand for energy, and growth in transport, agriculture, industry etc all areas of emissions. (we could cut this, but again its going to be very hard without affecting our economy)

Basically we somehow need to balance reducing our emissions and still having a growing economy.

And if we didn't get the balance right and we went into a recession 100% guarantee you and others would be the first to be whinging about how it's the government fault.

Anyway im sick of your shit, you are just another clueless wanker that has zero ideas or constructive criticism, so please do what you said you would and piss off maybe go join Extortion rebellion and go glue yourself to a road..

Have you read Greta's book Indo?

Indo,

It's kinda hard to believe you've missed the point VB was making. But....slowly....carbon has been building up in the atmosphere for a very long time, most significantly since about 1800 when the Industrial Revolution loosed the carbon chains to make energy. The revolution was led by Britain, Western Europe, and later on by America, all pumping carbon into the atmosphere for about 200 years while the Chinese were ankle deep in rice paddies.

It's only since 2000, 200 years after the Industrial Revolution began, that they've really started industrialising, and sure, their population means they've come on with gusto, but they've still got a way to go till they approach the Western world's historical carbon count.

And we - that is the Western world - got rich on the back of the Industrial Revolution so that's why China and India other developing countries are finding it hard to listen when we say they should stop.

Yeah Indo those Chinese environmental vandals have a lot to answer for. I saw this today, don’t know if it’s bullshit or not but it’s interesting.......

"Is this the straight line in a joke , Freeride ?"

Ha ha has to be..i am laughing.

Stu even if you wanted to look at things like that Australia's carbon footprint would be tiny.

BTW. China and India are actually doing more than many make out, most of the world is doing pretty good actually, the biggest issue is population growth and the growing energy needs, thats what real fucks everyone over.

yorkessurfer, yes its real, google it, NASA has a few articles on it, most things in life have positives and negatives, i actually whats a good video by some wise old dude (no crazy conspiracy theory dude) will find it and link it.

Here is who he is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson

Cue: someone digging some dirt on him painting him as some climate denalist paid by the fossil fuel industry oe something, anyway its an interesting outlook, and yes he looks like MR Burns.

Wow it’s true China and India have been on an ambitious tree planting program!

Here’s the link....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2019/02/28/nasa-says-earth-is-gr...

Look fellas, can't we just listen to the experts and their constructive contributions to this most interesting forum?

And I quote:

"It's 100% true Scomo aint no magician, anyway im over you fuck wit, low life scum, using a natural disaster for your own political gain.."

No, hang on, here's some REAL insight:

"Anyway im sick of your shit, you are just another clueless wanker that has zero ideas or constructive criticism, so please do what you said you would and piss off maybe go join Extortion rebellion and go glue yourself to a road.."

Hahahaha. Spoken like a true 100% "I'm not that politically savvy, but..." 5 minute Google expert, and #1 Scotty from Marketing suckhole.

Satire is dead!

"Stu even if you wanted to look at things like that Australia's carbon footprint would be tiny."

Curious turn of phrase, Indo.

The way "I looked at it" is the science of the Greehnouse Effect, triggered by the historical accumulation of greenhouse gases. We use annual percentage snapshots to monitor and police - they are accounting tools.

Which is why froot loops like Abbott and Kelly and co spouting 1.3% is an utterly bogus response to what has been a long-building trend of which China and India have only recently joined.