Interesting stuff
Got a link , Freeride ?
I’ll accept that the dry conditions may be the result of climate change , ill accept that temperatures may be slightly more elevated than is usual, but I refuse to accept that we are witnessing magical , unprecedented fire conditions on Earth.
Any conditions that the East coast is currently facing have been reproduced thousands of times in more Northern climates of Australia.
Fire has always burnt at night . Plenty of extra interest in the fires will bring revelatory knowledge of fire behaviour to many ....including myself.
https://theconversation.com/as-bushfire-and-holiday-seasons-converge-it-...
I think this is a very good idea.
Blowin, I'll try and find it.
was an audio interview on ABC North Coast during late Oct/Nov when the fires were rampaging around Nymboida.
they thought they were completely prepared because the country had previously burned and there was low/no fuel and described some pretty horrendous fire behaviour.
cattle people.
I don’t see how his theories are realistic in that there have been very wet years recently.
The concept is climate change. Some years will be dry and fire prone , others will be colder , some will be floods.
PS I’ve watched fire roll across Kimberly grassland at an amazing speed with only thinly dispersed grassland as fuel. Somehow the air just seems to catch fire , self perpetuate and leap between fuel loads ....I think that’s how it works. Crazy to see. The fire that got Turia Pitt was burning like that .
"This, of course, is the other thing that shows the futility of blaming the lack of back burning.
When I heard on ABC radio a lady and her husband who stayed to defend a property on land that had previously burned and she described fireballs and fire fronts running across bare ground due to the climactic conditions my thoughts changed."
The bare ground thing was a feature of the previous Vic fires bare concrete burning etc the fire front carrying its own fuel all comes together once you get elevated temps and strong wind.
Zen yeah that did it for me. The powderfinger
song was a perfect fit. The suffering of all the animals let alone humans is really doing my head in at the moment.
No living thing deserves this
Fuck off loungelizard, my views here on these fires has been clearly stated and you are grossly representing them
No-one I know who accepts climate change - scientists of all stripes excluded - hasnt gone through phases of self-doubt; periods where you doubt the science, or the waters might seem too muddied, or the severity appears overplayed, and so you play this internal game of back and forth with yourself, where you calculate everything, you second-guess every media report, second-guess motives, second-guess your own intuition.
I don't know that this internal wrangling is helpful, but it does help you to consolidate information, find out who the charlatans are, who the stooges are, which conversations to avoid - almost always occurring on Facebook - and just engage with what, rightly or wrongly, is a grave issue.
I don't agree with what a lot of activists say, nor some of the prominent figures. When Tim Flannery gave a date for the tipping point I could've given him an upper cut. Even if he was right, it showed such a lack of understanding about human behaviour and the impulses that drive people.
And it goes without saying that I dont agree with much of what Tony Abbott has to say on the issue. But when he just flatly denies the issue without engaging with it then it scares the absolute hell out of me.
This is an influential guy - an ex-PM! - who flatly rejected the Finkel Report before he'd even read it, who treated every debate as a battlefield where the enemy had to be opposed irrespective of what they said, and who simply wouldn't indulge the slightest talk of climate change in the LNP - not even to do that internal wrangling thing.
Are there any LNP voters here? Does this fundamentalist attitude scare you too?
Because here's the thing: Whether these fires are caused by climate change or not, they're giving us a glimpse of a post-climate change world. So please, just consider for a moment what's at stake should either side be wrong.
And now we have SmoKo, who went to an election without a single climate policy, suddenly saying he believes in climate change, however his party won't change their ways.
To be honest, and to take what is by now a very cheap shot, that sounds to me like Abbott's position with better marketing.
As far as SmoKo is concerned, his only job is to keep his job. Same as the entirety of that party . And this condition is by no means limited to the LNP.
Another fire positive.....I’m now off on a Powderfinger binge. After way too much , for far too long , Powderfinger has finally reached the point of nostalgic resurgence . Thank fuck . Always loved them.
PS Stu ....they’re selling fundamentalism because it’s definable territory upon which to claim ownership and build a brand. That’s all there is to it.
“ We own this sector, the other mob are over there “.
They’re both bought and sold by the same donors. It’s Coke vs Pepsi. The LNP own the Christian Right Global Neoliberals , whilst the ALP own the Aetheistic Left Global Neoliberals.
And that’s all the shops are stocking , so it’s all we can choose from to fill the trolley.
That’s why the LNP refuse to back away from the brand they’ve built so assiduously.
It’s not like the LNP politicians wouldn’t immediately forget their stated ideologies, drop to their knees and suck a bit of single mother , welfare bludger , climate activist cock if they thought they could get away with a sneaky hit to their Caymans account without a repercussion to the brand or the ballot box.
Their only true commitment is to corruption and self interest.
I can still not listen to them after seeing 'em live support Pantera at festival hall in brisvegas.
sounded so lame live next to the metal merchants from Texas.
met old mate Bernard Fanning at the footy though, he seems a nice bloke.
Powderfinger?
Arguably the best song from Crazy Horse's best album.
Ever listened to WELD then stu?
Powderfinger track 2 after Cortez.
Yeah I have.
But like Blowin I might go on a trip of rediscovery.
To this day I cannot listen to double allergic without being transported back to a pub gig where I was trying to make my now wife fall in love with me
Based on the great studio album Ragged Glory WELD (2 cds) and ARC (1) but originally released as ARCWELD (3 cds). Live recordings of the tour during Bush Senior’s Middle East folly. NY notes it was played with extra volume and energy. My personal favourite live Crazy Horse album.
Cheers. Gonna tee it up for tonight while making dinner.
I've also got a love story, Shoredump.
Whenever I listen to 'Rust Never Sleeps' I recall lounging around in the dust on a lonely limestone coast during an early trip to a wave I became infatuated with. Grit in the teeth at breakfast, tired campfire nights.
Takes me back there every time.
Guy, this is my favourite NY live. Insane guitar solos, and ultra heavy backing from Crazy Horse:
@zenagain, in all the stuff I've watched, read and seen over the past few days, this came up today and I found myself suddenly in tears at the computer. There's no cute animals or emotional music, it's just raw.
?t=100 The link starts at 1.40, and I think the fella says "we are gonna get fucked here".
It's old, from fires in South Oz in 2015, but it just affected me with what the firies are going through.
We're gonna have a big crew of people who need looking after once these fires have finished.
Have seen NY and Crazy Horse live many times but none better than front row at the Myer Music Bowl (Melb) during the Greendale tour. Right in front of the man. Fuck what a concert it was. Greendale, very apt right now in AU
One of the things I love about this joint is that there always seemed to be someone who turned up without cameras or an entourage and just wanted to challenge themselves and get the most freakish pit imaginable.
Anthony Walsh turned up unannounced, without backup dancers or entourage. No gopros . No media .
He’d flown straight from Mexico ( 55 hours ) . I’d driven from the Kimberly (16 hours ) . We shared a fluffy session at a point south the day before as we washed off our respective journeys. Just the two of us out , we chatted between small sets about where we’d been till today. He said the South Mexican points were abundant and off tap . I told him that there was as much hours work as he could stomach up North.
The next morning was pumping. With our cars next to each other in the car park I got an insight into his psyche: Professional . Energised . Calm. Assessing.
I’d just literally driven from a waveless 10 week stint in the desert. Banking coin , sucking piss, bleeding athleticism. Loving every minute.
He recommended I ride my 6’5” cause he liked the planshape. I tended to agree as I only had a home made 6’0” as backup.
I hesitated as though a few extra minutes would find me fit and strong. The remnants of youth and it’s accompanying ability to override reality with fantasy we’re still with me on this day.
He made it out the back easily. I dragged the anchor through the lagoon , watching bombs detonate in the No Man’s Land I’d need to breach if I wanted to ride a wave.
A set came . Walshy swung and went . I couldn’t tell you if he made it as I was soon frozen with fear as True Panic overwhelmed me for the first time in my surfing life. Sets marching upon me , no where to go that’d be any safer or any more perilous than where I was right now. No channel , nowhere to go , nowhere to hide as strong , thick Indian Ocean lines bore down on me.
The punishment wasn’t as bad as the threat. I got worked within an inch of my life but the immediacy of being starfished against the reef quelled the panic. Then I was out the back and taking a spot in the lineup as though I wanted a set wave. If I could convince those around me that I was up for it , surely I could convince myself of the same.
A few waves passed , then my turn came . The crew thought I was stoked. Cheering me into the wave I’d assumed would be my last. Instead I made the drop, rode the wave and regained my confidence .
Meanwhile....Anthony Walsh gave everyone reasons to believe that he was the best tuberider of hectic lefts walking the Earth. The bastard didn’t emerge unscathed, getting taken down by some serious sections , but it was his resilience that impressed as much as anything. I wound up breaking my 6’5” and was relieved to be free from the obligation to surf as the tide continued to drop.
Walshy snapped his board at the same time . Only he bolted into the car park to grab his smaller backup in order to get straight back out there. I told him ( in faux disappointment) that I only had the home made shorty.
He picked up my board , cast a professional eye over it and said that it’d be fine and that he’d ride it out there no dramas.
Walshy , I hadn’t known you less than a day , but I thought we were mates ? Yet here you are condemning me to return to the death zone on a board that I’d shaped myself.
A board that I’d created with optimistic dreams of impossible achievements, yet now it seemed like I’d crafted my own coffin .
Fuck that and fuck your otherworldly skills and courage , Walshy.
I bolted South and got pitted on my home made stick at a wave enough removed from the threat of death that it’s enjoyable, once you know how.
A couple of hours later , Walshy paddled out and ruled that joint as well. Still no cameras , just the pure love of being able to thread incredible barrels with a talent developed over years of committed surfing.
Photo taken just before Anthony Walsh snapped his board , got destroyed , swam to shore , bolted to the car park , made me realise the gulf between us and then got back out there for a dropping tide and ever more dangerous barrels.
Anthony Walsh....Top 5 in the respect hierarchy of surfers I’ve seen in real life.
Fark VB, that is full-on. Just terrifying.
My hat comes off for all the fireys and voulunteers putting life and limb on the line and my heart goes out to all the people who've lost their properties.
As for the poor souls whose lives were lost, may you be lovingly sent off and eternally rest in peace,
.
Regards Powderfinger- I saw them win the Brisbane battle of the bands comp they held at the Spring Hill Hotel I'm guessing about '89. I didn't know them at the time but I thought these lads aren't bad, there's something there. I bought their first CD, can't remember for the life of me the name but a standout track was 'Reap what you sow'. At this time now it all almost seems kinda prophetic.
Oh yeah, Walshy aint half bad in the tube either.
I remember reading a review in Rolling Stone magazine about Powderfinger’s first album which basically said that Bernard Fanning had zero talent , was overly melodramatic and that the band was going no where.
Probs written by the same guy who said The Knack were going to be bigger than the Beatles.
Internationalist was a great album. Takes me back to a time I remember fondly.
Great Depp/NY link that got listed before too, I found a 14 minute version soon after it. My most vivid NY memory is driving a WB ute on my wife's family's farm at harvest, with only one cassette in the glovebox, yes it was "Harvest". As the sun would sink in the sky and the headers keep going until the moisture levels rose in the near-dark, that album got branded into my soul.
Also Stu, did Swellnet cover Hurley giving their surf team of all-stars the (eventual) flick?
@Andy
In regard to those bogans, maybe have a listen to this interview with the local pub owner who said they are no hopers and haven't been involved in the relief centre or helping others like most of the community and just came up to heckle the PM.
"A Cobargo resident has passionately defended his town after a video went viral of Scott Morrison being heckled by angry locals.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison was met by angry residents in bushfire-devastated Cobargo in south-east NSW.
But the owner of the local pub, David Allen, tells Natalie Peters and Erin Molan that the reaction to Scott Morrison is not reflective of the town.
“He’s the Prime Minister of Australia and he deserves some respect.
“He was here to listen and unfortunately a tiny minority of people did that and it’s not representative of the community.
“Those people who did it, they’re just no-hopers, they haven’t been seen helping anyone.
“I was just so embarrassed for the town because that’s not what we are.”
Cobargo Hotel owner David Allen has since confirmed his father, former Bega Valley Shire Mayor Tony Allen, was travelling with the Prime Minister.
“No matter what people think of Scott Morrison, and their politics, I just thought what happened [when he was heckled] was wrong,” he said.
“I knew nothing about this handshake business and all that. For me that’s all peripheral.
“Our immediate problem here is we need help, and that’s what we needed, to ask the Prime Minister for help. And what happened, you know that the Prime Minister left, was so unhelpful to us.
“As I said we have people who’ve lost their lives, who’ve lost their homes, who’ve lost their businesses, we need help down here.
“What happened was so unhelpful. And that’s my point.
“I don’t really care about the politics and the media grabs. That’s all peripheral, it’s a side issue. It’s so important we get some help down here because we may not have power down here for weeks.”
https://www.2gb.com/its-wrong-cobargo-resident-ashamed-of…/…
Historical account of Black Thursday, 1851 in Victoria. Hat tip to a poster called Petros over at AusWeather for the link, you have to use the internet wayback machine to find this one now:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140408042836/http://home.iprimus.com.au/fo...
Christ Almighty Indo.
Smoko had no idea who that woman was, her history or anything.
The way he treated her was outrageous.
What about the fire fighter whose hand he grabbed. Any dirt on him?
I heard he looked sideways at his dog once.
Mate you're pretty disgusting.
So the pub owner is the son of the LNP former mayor of the area, the guy that shushed the woman asking for RFS funds.
No bias there.
I know it's not your intention, VJ, but I've seen a few people link to that fire as though there's some equivalence - i.e "See, it's happened before!"
Which is of course stupid.
They didn't have aerial waterbombing in 1851. Nor well trained and sophisticated fire teams, or fleets of trucks, or fire hydrants in rural towns, and fire trails criss-crossing the back country, or fire retardant, or D9s ripping into the bush to make containment lines, or backburning, or hazard reduction burning. They didn't have exit plans, or the internet to warn people, or mobile communications of any means.
Without all these advances introduced over the last half-century to slow and halt bushfire we may well have had a great many Black Thursdays.
And in spite of all those advances we still have a fire that exceeeds it.
These fires have also been burning for nigh on two months, not one day.
It's nice to look back at history, but there's simply no equivalence to be found and I'd seriously question the motives of anyone attempting to create that impression.
No, it wasn't posted with that intention Stu. It exists now in this thread as a link to historical evidence. If anything, I'd like people to take it away for some comparison, as well as the intriguing historical mentions, such as the Gippsland Aborigines saying "The Sun had a blight in his eye" in reference to the colour of the sun witnessed (was it the smoke or could they see things like sunspots??). Or the description from Batman hill in Melbourne in the afternoon of the entire northern horizon ablaze from the Dandenongs past Macedon. People today could put that into the perspective they see around them. Also note the temperatures mentioned: are we to assume that only our technology can record extremes?
Victoria in 1851 was far more greatly forested than today, with far less ability to fight a fire. In the report you linked we see evidence of large fires in almost every time period they have studied into prehistory. If I can find some good primary and secondary docs on 1939, I'll post them. There is a bias people have toward thinking their time on earth sees the greatest extremes, and the job of historians is to use past points to compare. That said, if this continues, it will set all time records in terms of land size burned - at least in our recorded history. 5 million Ha seems to be the highest level.
Stu ...trying to conflate the media hyperbole and the tragic affect of a zeitgeist cultural production fire on the 6000000 extra people strewn throughout the area of NSW in the past 150 years is ridiculous.
The temperatures were the same in Penrith in 1939 ( minus a degree or so ) when there was several million less people and trillions less cubic metres of concrete and steel replacing the bush ....which was frequently burnt by the blackfellas.
The D9s , hydrants and firebreaks weren’t needed in 1851. Mostly because there was no people and no insurance.
There was no insurance and fuck all hyperbolic media reportage in the scrub. If a humpy or settlement got burnt , it got rebuilt. Without fuss or fanfare because nobody cared and people were self reliant.
The fires haven’t burnt for any excessive amount of time in any location. Your post about the susceptibility of crew to overrun the climate change component was really good.
Keep it in mind !
And let’s not forget the serious and far from inconsequential influence of the modern pyromaniac. Just as there wasn’t as many incidents of gun mass murder before the cultural gestation of the mass shooter , let’s not pretend that the creation of these fires was the result of a virgin birth.....more strange cunts being incited by media hyperbole of “ catastrophic conditions “ = more fires.
Just ask the police if you don’t believe me.
Unless you’re one of the fucktards who believes that the extra -12 percent soil humidity and the extra 0.7 degrees on seasonal temperature variations from the average is enough to generate immaculate concept conflagration.
Give 'em enough rope...
Seriously.....all the opinions you could’ve expressed and you chose to just smear and bitch again ?
If you’re not a 12 year old girl with issues about the normality of her vagina I’d be very surprised.
"Stu ...trying to conflate the media hyperbole and the tragic affect of a zeitgeist cultural production fire on the 6000000 extra people strewn throughout the area of NSW in the past 150 years is ridiculous."
Tell that to Craig Kelly MP and his core of believers.
ID, I’ll give it to you, you’re polite and generally gracious on this forum. I appreciate and respect that, but I’ve gotta say: you, personally, live in a funny old world.
Your last couple of posts:
- “I feel sorry for Scotty”: what for? He’s lost nothing, bar the respect of the country he leads (serves?). And you feel sorry for HIM? All entirely self-inflicted.
- linking to a post by the son of the former LNP mayor about the people of Cobargo. Was he (the former mayor) the fat old cunt that got in the face of and stopped the pregnant lady from saying anything else to the PM? Jesus. That cunt needs some counseling on empathy too...
Take a break from your usual media sources for a few weeks mate. This ain’t gonna get any easier for you.
BTW, anyone seen the Liberal party’s new Facebook campaign: “I stand with Scotty”. Mate of mine (Lib voter, fwiw) sent me a screenshot today. He was disgusted. Not “I stand with the people who’ve lost everything” or “I stand with the firies”... FFS. King Smoko.
VJ...that 5 million hectares was for Victoria alone .
And how accurate were the estimations of geographic area in the 1850 ‘s media ?
Further to Blowin's mention of arsonists:
Police are now working on the premise arson is to blame for much of the devastation caused this bushfire season. A strike force will investigate whether blazes were deliberately lit, and bring those responsible to justice. https://t.co/TWh1KQycs4 @ebatten7 #NSWFires #7NEWS pic.twitter.com/Dul8dMFrZv
— 7NEWS Sydney (@7NewsSydney) January 3, 2020
Police seem to think so as well, and have formed a strike force for the purpose of apprehending them. Is it true they've got around 100 already (think I read that somewhere).
Umm, Blowin, with regards to how accurate were they? I would think that an event of that shocking magnitude would see them compile maps based on account afterward, and that they had reasonably excellent surveyors in that time. As well as excellent record keeping.
So as a general rule of thumb I'm willing to believe most stats presented in recent (last 300 years) history.
Edit: it's like the thread that made me join Swellnet all those years ago: the 100 foot wave thread. I'd read accounts from seafarers seeing the things (and surviving). I considered they knew how high their masts were, climbing the things all day. But no, you couldn't have a wave that high, no-one's ever measured it. And then, satellites detected them in oceans as extreme outliers. And then detected in buoys. And then detected in the North Sea. And now people are riding them!
Tonight on Sky News channel 53 'Election Night Encore'. 2 hrs of celebrating the 'miracle'
Over now though....but never fear the Kenny report is here. Yea naa.
People are riding 100ft waves?
Who?
I'm also a little dubious on the Black Thursday numbers. Without telephones, helicopters, or any motorised vehicles I cant imagine any way to get a handle on the size, and Melbourne was only settled, what?, 15 years earlier. It was a city and a state in its infancy. I just can't see resources being used to survey from ground the whole of the state for an event like that.
As Blowin said above, life moved on without fuss.
VJ ....I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m all for the accountability of previous eras which are seemingly cast aside as though they’re of no consequence.
Crew are saying that Penrith hasn’t been this hot for since 1850 ....as if 1850 never really existed in time, As though its antiquity removes the credibility of the readings despite the fact that they were unparalleled until this current emergency.
I’m more prone to saying that this is a self-incurred incident due to the misfortunate , but inevitable, congruence of the modern primacy of immediate economy over historic reality.
That is , the fuckers in charge are so unfamiliar with anything beyond the scope of urban expansion which is the focus of modern government, that they don’t even know the depth of their own stupidity.
The same can be said for an unrestricted conflagration of the entire East coast as could be said for the unrestrained foreign ownership of our homelands.
The current political class are unimaginative in their purview . The corruption which dictates their focus is limited to the narrowest of outcomes for our country.
That’s why both the ALP and the LNP need to be disbanded ASAP. Where is Albo the Eostrogenous during this time ? Heavy flow a?
You know why he isn’t setting the obvious standard which depicts Smoko as the retard he is ?
Because Albo has no idea either.
As soon as he’s removed from his inner city comfort zone he’s just as obviously out of his depth. He’s been raised by women and bred to act like a women. And not just any women , but weepy inner city whinglings who are bred to cry as a first response to the most innocent of threats.
That is why Albo hasn’t been seen bolstering communities as is his role as leader irrespective of whether the votes have fallen his way at the last election . Where is that fuckwit ?
Sitting at his house in the same suburb he grew up in , only leaving during daylight to attend political theory courses at the local university, and goaded by the vested interests of the mafioso ALP factions into thinking that he was in any way suitable to lead a community fundraiser, let alone a nation,
Fuck all these pretenders.
Wow. That's some next level misogyny there blowin. Pretty ugly stuff mate.
Some more history of south coast fires:
http://www.ulladulla.info/bush-fire-nearly-destroys-the-town-of-ulladulla
"Talking points worthy of further discussion without devolving into insult."
Good work Blowin
Ya hypocritical fuckstick
You’re kidding me , right ?
Whilst you sit there and talk your “ misogyny theory “ I was talking hardcore women haters into believing that my missus was MORE than capable than the spineless fucks they had working for them at the time.
I’d arrange to meet potential contractors in the pub in the late 90’s / early 2000’s in order to asses whether we could stand the sight and sound of each other ....as humans did pre the HR dark ages.
I’d establish that the fella with the money wasn’t a cock and he’d realise I wasn’t a piece of shit. All good. Then I’d introduce him to my lady who he’d probably been staring at till the introductions in the mostly women free environs of the Kimberly/ Pilbara in that time.
Then we’d get on the piss. Drinking and socialising was as much a part of the job as being able to reroof after a cyclone . And my missus was SOUND. So it wasn’t just me getting the job. They offered her a job every single time.
She started labouring at my insistence cause I knew the weak cunts amongst us couldn’t handle a woman amongst them achieving more. Then she drove a heavy fork . Then rigged . Advance ringer then a few years later driving 150 tonne cranes as one of the gun operators on every large infrastructure project in WA.
She worked as a stockbroker before I knew her , then she owned a cafe , was the cook on the pearl farm we worked , grew pot, a hundred different occupations !!!!
And please tell me what you’ve done to create equality between the sexes beyond a cheap shot at someone on the internet ?
You obviously care greatly...tell us what proactive steps you have personally taken to reduce the cultural demarcation between male and female gender dynamics ?
Fuck mate , she’s lived more lives than you would dream and I’ve pushed her barrow every step of the way. Woman are people. They’re just like you and I . 12 year old girls are reknown for their body insecurity issues. So are 12 year old males. Both can be irrationally confused by their hormones.
If you don’t like me drawing parallels between a grown man who does NOTHING but gossip , smear and bitch like a naughty 12 year old girl then I really don’t hive a fuck. But you can stick your outlandish accusations of misogyny in your arse as I can stone cold guarantee that I have done more for female empowerment and gender equality by forthright and literal action than you would ever dream of achieving with your ghey , limp wristed *virtue signaling on the internet.
If you really need to accuse someone of cultural intransigence, try hammering Facto the Fuckwit for his moral impropriety . The strange little fuck sits behind his keyboard and types as though he’s not an ageing old , soccer queer with a foot still in England . As though the monarchy still has traction. Silly little bitch he is thinks it’s still appropriate to refer to the “ auld country “ whilst he decries others celebrating ” Invasion Day “ .
He is the lowest , stupidest, most unworthy cunt on Swellnet.
True story.
Facto is the single dumbest , most media influenced dickhead on this site. The irony being that he thinks he’s ruling . You know why he thinks he’s ruling ? Because he believes the echo chamber media bullshit he reads. Yeah , you know how you and I have a necessary media filter to assimilate the bullshit we read ? He doesn’t have one. He honestly thinks there Suva a thing as a neoliberal globalist “ comrade “.
How much Koolaid do you have to drink to believe that bullshit ?
Hands down, dumbest cunt on Swellnet. If you find yourself agreeing with him.....think again.
* I dare you to accuse me of homophobia.
Go on, do it.
Have it cunts