FINS -Glass on or which Fin System

Go Futures / single plug. More options, cheaper and better plug system

Futures over FCS, pure spite against the shitty shitty FCS1 systems. Glass ins are good too, save a lot of fucking around and make the fins very stiff.

Prefer futures they seem a more robust system but I have boards with both systems, only downside of futures with quads is you can't use front fins in the rear so cuts down on possible experimentation.

Glassed on fins?

I could never go back, I couldn't think of anything worse than not having the flexibility of being able to change fins not to mention they were a nightmare to travel with.

Why cant you use front fins in the rear with futures quads ?

The boxes are a different depth, the rear boxes are shallower, so front fins physically cant be put in rear boxes, i guess rear boxes are made shallower because generally the tail is thinner where the rear fins sit.

Yep o.k. futures come in box depth of 3/4 or 1/2 inch.

Buy a f4 set of five pack in futures forget about tryna put front fins in the rear boxes .

I know a shaper who once said to the work experience kid ... some like their fins to go good on planes, I like mine to go well on waves and thats why I glass them in .....

In the old days they did resin them in permanently ! 20 years ago futures started , but fcs was before 20 yrs
Imagine how many different setups can be put in a board with five boxes . Surely everybody knows the benefits if you are going to maximize performance of your board

Does leaving empty fin boxes say in a 5 box setup, running as a thruster, create any drag?

Prefer futures they seem a more robust system but I have boards with both systems, only downside of futures with quads is you can't use front fins in the rear so cuts down on possible experimentation.

Glassed on fins?

Hey indo dr u don't need to experiment with front fins in the back . U just use different size rear fins if u want to experiment with standard proven fin positions

uncle_leroy wrote:

Does leaving empty fin boxes say in a 5 box setup, running as a thruster, create any drag?

No its like dimple bottom / golf ball to reduce drag

uncle_leroy wrote:

Does leaving empty fin boxes say in a 5 box setup, running as a thruster, create any drag?

Negligible...Futures make an infill strip for 3/4 and 1/2 inch boxes @$4 each.

Funny how ppl keep mentioning the possible drag from these cavities at the back end of the planing surface but when it comes to drag from shitty fins , unclean surfaces on bottom of board , oversized legropes with oversized rail saver dragging along , ppl dismissed it as impossible . Betcha the legrope thats unnecessarily big is far more the culprit

Strangely measures are taken to reduce drag in everyway possible so surfers can attain the fastest boards in the world but nobody takes notice of the over manufacturer of the legrope & the stupid rail saver that mist certainly can be removed all together especially for top level surfing strategies

caml][quote=indo-dreaming wrote:

Prefer futures they seem a more robust system but I have boards with both systems, only downside of futures with quads is you can't use front fins in the rear so cuts down on possible experimentation.

Glassed on fins?

Hey indo dr u don't need to experiment with front fins in the back . U just use different size rear fins if u want to experiment with standard proven fin positions

Yeah I just making the point, but it's really not an issue i have enough fins to cover a huge variety of possibilities.

Yeah theres some silly shit with the systems thats fer sure ID , u have to improvise a bit to make good of em . One of the issues I feel is wrong is the shallow depth of rear Centre box of futures . I have not seen it be a problem but it sure doesn't look deep enough to handle g-forces from a a big guy or wave

A few shapers make there own fins ,Mitchell Rae is one and around $140 for a thruster set CNC machined
Up to $160 per set for FCS or whatever not a great expense really they last a long time don't know how often people change boards but I have a set which ive used thru the last 5 new boards
Don't forget the secondhand market heaps of sets under $80
Glass ons probably = 1% I think really never see them,Jake Patterson is a glass on only man.

I actually think glass ons are stiffer and make the board more responsive. And I don't really want to fuck around with fin possibilities. But I need them for traveling now, although with 1-2 boards it's not a deal breaker

Mk1 u just made me think of a major factor . U can't glass plastic fins in ! If u get a well made board with strong glass job around the boxes & use fiberglass fins then they aren't inferior to glass ins . Quite possibly better than glass ins

rule303 wrote:

Sorry fong i changed that post before there were replies,, I am truly interested in why people believe glass on are better. I remember the days when fins were not an option on your custom the only benefit now is you can change set ups
Personally I think Fin systems are a scam for corporations and am still shuddering at the thought of $160+ for fins for a new board thats why im still considering glassed on.

Is there any benefit to performance with glass on?
Do any shapers make their own fins any more or are they all from the same factories?
Do the fins available now make any greater benefit than the fin of 20-30 years ago?

I replied to your post that's now disappeared , my post has gone too ! How did that happen

Stronger and better attachment to your board for sure, you have to hit glass ons pretty hard to break them out compared with fcs and way less trauma than knocking out fin plugs,once you have worked out what fins work best in a board you never change them anyhow (well rarely anyhow), Tom Hoye still makes and foils the fins for every board he makes from scratch but his boards are for love rather than money which takes us back to fin systems. What a genius idea to sell fins to go with your new board "do you want fries and a drink with that burger sir" upselling, makes the board seem cheaper but add on 150 bucks for fins - not so much, so much faster to glass and sand so cuts cost there. Old arguement is fin systems are better for travel is relevant and maybe you can fit more boards in a bag but packed well glass ons are fine and if you do crack one or knock one out way easier to repair on the road than a fin plug. Love glass ons , how many old boards that are still very rideable but the rickety old threaded fin system is fucked or need shimming are out there? Love glass ons

Imagine if you got a board with glass in fins, but it didn't go quite right?...you would have no choice but to either keep with it or move it on.

If this happens with a board with a fin system, first thing i do is change the fins and most times i find a fin that works for the board, as we know changing fins can totally change how a board feels or goes..

Personally i don't buy the logic, a shaper knows what fin are best for a board because i don't think there is one set of fins that only work for a board there is often quite a few sets of fins that work in a board and what might work for me in one board might not work for you in the same board.

Im also with Camel i don't think glass in's are any better or stiffer, i think that depends on the fin and the box.

I forgot the brand but there is fins that has a base very similar to a glassed in fin, and they are a very nice all round template.

I personally ride a lot of boards with quad set ups that allows me to basically have two boards in one a thruster and quad, quads are super sensitive to fin setups, i don't think we would have had the quad comeback without fin systems as it would be way too hit and miss with glass in's.

Indo, Powerbase fins are they the ones ?

udo wrote:

Indo, Powerbase fins are they the ones ?

Yeah they are the ones, not bad fins.

Arent they floppy plastic ones ? The one I saw was . But theres couldbe a ceramic version too ? No wonder ppl might feel that glass ins are better , if your comparing them to floppy plastic replicas

Nsp fins are the floppiest I've encountered. I don't know if FCS fit the same plugs, I left all FCS st my mums house.

I remember watching some surf doco many years ago and they were interviewing a bunch of aussie pros (Fanning, Parko etc) and asking them : Fin system or glass on ? I recall about 3/4 of the pro's saying glass on .... it ended with one of them saying that Kelly uses fin system and he's the best in the world !

Come in a variety of materials deffiantly not floppy.

http://powerbasefins.com.au/fins/

Caml - yeah aware of the fin material you mention, was comparing to those fiberglass shapers fins (futures set-up). Basically I had 2 board with glass ons in the last 5 or so years and both were noticeably responsive, I remember pulling the fins sideways and noticing how much "snap" they had (only thruster set ups).

ID, get that it would be good for quads and improving a board but just feel that if you had the same board and fin shape, one with glass ons and one with a standard fin system the glass on would perform better - just my opinion and cannot prove it of course!

Do you realize how much g forces the fins are under for big wave surfing ? Dorian - healy - Mitchell - jjf - twig - etc , all use futures at jaws etc . The thing is that if the boxes are installed strong & the fins are fibreglass not the inferior compositions then you get the much approved glassed in feel . I think the thing is that inferior brand fins systems arent as good as glass ins . So after all this talk of how good glass ins feel then why does 95% of fins sold be the cheaper plastic or hexcore type material .
mk1 shapers dont make fibreglass - theyre composite hexcore , the cheaper brands are thinner . U can't beat quality

indo-dreaming wrote:

Come in a variety of materials deffiantly not floppy.

http://powerbasefins.com.au/fins/

Yes ok they look alright ! The ones I saw were soft plastic but your link shows other options .
But what about the box ? How strong is the fit in the board ? Does anyone use them at jaws ? No I guess

Fibreglass - means from a panel of 28-32 layers of 6oz or the equivalent . G-10 is compressed 4oz with epoxy resin - better than fibreglass . Cheap brand hexcore type stuff is much lower quality

Why would they sell good coffee in a foam cup when you could use glass or ceramic ? Easy to work out . Why does a fish taste so good when its freshly caught & fried , compared to supermarket imports . Its about money , theres money to be made from replica fins . Like replica plastic cutlery - does a good chef cut the roast with a plastic knife ?
Fakes & replicas , money to be made & all the suckers buying them have no idea . Do u know that theres more profit in composite fins than fiberglass ? Way more , so theres very little fiberglass fins manufactured & they try to tell u that the composites work good .its the profit margin theres less waste in injection mould fins with foam inside not to mention pure plastic genuine fiberglass fins have to be cut & theres waste , from a square block panel . Theres fin companies making non fibreglass fins & theyre all shit .dont last a year after a bit of use they're cracked/ stressed /chipped .
A wood fin can work but depends how much stress its gonna handle . Derek hynd musta thought fuck these fins theyre a gimmick , beginners !

I personally don't buy into all these different materials and flex here or there stuff, sure the real cheap plastic fins that are very floppy are not the best, but i honestly cant tell the difference between all the fan dangle different materials, maybe i just don't surf good enough too, but i even did an experiment one day and borrowed some fiber glass fins in the same template as i normally ride that are that thermotech type fins, the waves were fairly good, i swapped fins halfway through my surf, and i honestly couldn't tell the difference.

I have noticed fiber glass fins fin cut you a lot easier though.

To me all the other aspects like template/size/shape and even foils and cant are more important.

Actually the fins that have seemed the most flexy fins I've had for years were fiber glass ones from Bali, they were a big template (controller copys) but even the rears were quite flexy.

rule303 wrote:

So where in this confusing world of materials would a solid wood fin covered in epoxy sit Performance wise.

After reading comments here im starting to think purchasing some new fins will make some of my older boards a lot better. You also have to ask the question why all these shapers ad surfboard companies give out the crap plastic fins with their boards?.

absolutely 303, try some different fins, can really transform a board, one set I keep going back to is a set of C Drives, used them on a Tomo vader, Pyzel slab and firewire el fuego among others with great results.

Originally fins were made of wood . Then george greenough came up with a better concept . That was a long time ago . They haven't improved since then , it was about half a century ago . Indo dr lucky for you , the roast still tastes the same even when sliced with a plastic knife

@Indodreaming, I,ve had a couple of boards come with glassed on fins that didn't feel quite right so we just took them off and moved them up or down and became magic, pretty easy and made all the difference in the world rather than just persevering or getting rid of the board but it does come down to the board maker for sure. I agree you can compensate by changing the fin with removable system which is good for people without access to an operating room, also can stick a bigger fin in the back on the bigger days to go upscale or visa versa smaller to go downscale. I just like the feel, simplicity and strength of glassed and not having fins that get loose or don't sit flat on the bottom of the board (had both with fcs and futures depending on tail rocker).

Wow that is some effort, i guess it would be worth it though.

Not really an effort when you dedicate your life to surfing & you just want your board to work good ! Ok its an effort but its for the love

Call me lazy but i'm happy to just undo a few screws.

Knowing my luck, id glass them back on and it would go worse and id need to to grind them off again.

Fixed a few fins, back in the old days of fixed fins, and although not hard it's still a bit of work.

Yeah its a job that aint fun , that's why I use futures id !

FCS work just fine. Funny thing is when I was in Hawaii the majority of boards (not pros)
were using fcs plastics but that could have something to do with the average joe being
so poor over there.

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