FINS -Glass on or which Fin System

Thanks groundswell, will be looking at buying some fins off these crew:-)

indo-dreaming wrote:

I did a bit of a search and found this not sure how reliable it is but seem to talk a lot of scientific babble and the end result is pretty much my mindset, so i will post it :P

http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/~ernesto/SPR/Ippolito-FinalReport.pdf

Interesting conclusion.

For those wanting to learn a bit more, I've posted this link before, well worth a read:

http://finsciences.com/surfboard-fin-science/

Hey 303, now you have WAY too many options to consider! Hahahaaa ... ain't this stuff great!

EDIT: On yeah, and yep, I'm with ya caml ... fins are like tyres, even the marketing cost of sponsorship distorts the costs. But, it's true spending a few bucks more will get you a better product. Doesn't mean the most expensive is the best though, so ya know, buyer beware and all ... ;)

Id love to see some practical experiment's done:

Both with FCS and Futures and different fin materials in a same/similar template.

First out of the water with fins in the board and pressure pushed against the fin and the pressure measured and the movement measured at different pressures.

To see how much difference flex is and also too see how much the fin flex at the base and difference in strength and see the point where the fin breaks or the box bust.

And then another test where they get a few pro surfers paint a whole heap of fins black and ensure they don't visually check them out, swap fins after a few waves and see if they can tell the difference.

Personally id be very surprised if they can pick what each fin material is when comparing modern big name fins in various materials.

I think the common view of fiberglass fins being much better than moulded fins came from a time when it was perhaps true but now is a bit of a hoax, when i say based in fact if you grab some of those real cheap plastic fins from early era FCS they were very flexy you could push them and see and feel the flex and off course the fiberglass fins that came out after these were the opposite very stiff there was a huge difference between the two.

But now all major brand fins of all materials are very similar what people now often call cheap plastic fins are a much different and much stiffer plastic/resin than in the past and IMO you can only go so stiff in material with a fin after that the area of flex is in the base of the fin and the box especially in FCS.

Off course fin marketing to sell new and more expensive fins hasn't helped things and they are the ones who really benefit.

Wonder where Roy is and what his 2c is seeing he produces printed plastic fins.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

caml wrote:

Just to put things in perspective , tyres for professional racing are better than the $40 retread second handys for driving the old bomb in a country road . Its pretty obvious that if you want to drive extremely fast you need the better rubber

Yeah and off road tyres are noisy on blacktop, some tyre your paying for the millions of dollars in sponsorship,blah blah blah, not a real good analogy mate, fins aren't tyres, no comparison, that's what I reckon anyways:-)

ha ha..or the other one Camel you wouldn't cut a steak with a plastic knife!

You wouldn't cut a steak with a fiberglass knife either :P

wingnut2443 wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

I did a bit of a search and found this not sure how reliable it is but seem to talk a lot of scientific babble and the end result is pretty much my mindset, so i will post it :P

http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/~ernesto/SPR/Ippolito-FinalReport.pdf

Interesting conclusion.

For those wanting to learn a bit more, I've posted this link before, well worth a read:

http://finsciences.com/surfboard-fin-science/

Hey 303, now you have WAY too many options to consider! Hahahaaa ... ain't this stuff great!

Interesting read, i think you can over think and get to scientific about these things though.

I much prefer to buy (mostly good condition secondhand) all kinds of fins in various constructions , sizes, templates, different foils and then just experiment.

But the thing that makes me question materials so much is despite having and trying fiberglass fins and not finding any noticeable difference, ironically the fins out of about the dozen sets that stand out to me and i always seem to come back too in a standard board are plastic (thermoetch) the template (vector 2's ) though are not available in any other material though so cant compare, my other go to fins are AM2,s (any material)

groundswell wrote:

Stretch in carbon/hexcore tip- Limited edition. Looks like they cant be bought from oz though.
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=cab77e9161b78b5f834111928&id=01a972f61a.
They were a smallish wave fin anyway i guess. Unless used just for the rears with bigger fibreglass fronts, i tried that and they were very drivey.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

Thanks groundswell, will be looking at buying some fins off these crew:-)

Looks like i was mistaken the BUZZ stretch fins look a bit bigger than the ones i tried (red hexcore stretch f4 fins). Not sure how they will go in the bigger stuff they were meant for Buzz boards by stretch.Not sure how i missed that.
Looks like a good fin set though.

Well if I was in a fix, I'd use a plastic knife over a fiberglass knife. Using a plastic knife on steak is common and quite acceptable taking into consideration that it is likely to be thin bbq steak, unlike the thick juicy steaks that caml would be accustomed to , courtesy of road kill:-D

I was looking at the twinzer sethttp://store.stretchboards.com/product/twinzer-fiberglass-fin-set-by-fut...

Zak had them in stock as of Nov 2015 ,still showing for sale on there online store.....click and proceed .

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

caml wrote:

Just to put things in perspective , tyres for professional racing are better than the $40 retread second handys for driving the old bomb in a country road . Its pretty obvious that if you want to drive extremely fast you need the better rubber

Yeah and off road tyres are noisy on blacktop, some tyre your paying for the millions of dollars in sponsorship,blah blah blah, not a real good analogy mate, fins aren't tyres, no comparison, that's what I reckon anyways:-)

Ok fine don't take my advice then

groundswell wrote:

groundswell wrote:

Stretch in carbon/hexcore tip- Limited edition. Looks like they cant be bought from oz though.
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=cab77e9161b78b5f834111928&id=01a972f61a.
They were a smallish wave fin anyway i guess. Unless used just for the rears with bigger fibreglass fronts, i tried that and they were very drivey.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

Thanks groundswell, will be looking at buying some fins off these crew:-)

Looks like i was mistaken the BUZZ stretch fins look a bit bigger than the ones i tried (red hexcore stretch f4 fins). Not sure how they will go in the bigger stuff they were meant for Buzz boards by stretch.Not sure how i missed that.
Looks like a good fin set though.

F4 are not stretch so don't confuse them

K

it was a red stretch five fin set, maybe not f4, but definately stretch. ill try to dig up a photo of them. They went well with larger fronts.A bit loose as a quad set on a wide round tail.

That is right not f4 .

caml wrote:

Ok I will tell you the big difference between real fibre panel fins vs injection made types . About 50 yrs of life .
Hexcore can crack arond the base on the first surf , fibreglass will not crack for 50 yrs . Hexcore will chip and begin to crumble & continue to deteriorate any time that you hit a rock or whatever , the fins have a lifespan of a few yrs .
Dont be fooled by marketing id they tell you that theyre better , the profit is bigger than fibreglass in sales because cheaper cost to make but higher price to sell .
Genuine fibres sell for less than the hexcore so u are being fooled by marketing .
Fibres can even be sanded down if you want

ok id i had a look at the great link you posted and noticed immediately that the injection fins that they study are epoxy resin , thats a major difference ! epoxy is twice as good as pe resin . and i agree that those fins are much better . i have a set of blackstix futures that are epoxy and im very happy with that . but are all the hexcores on the market epoxy? probably not , seeing the ones i got are new editions and actually stated in the advert that they are epoxy . it also says how fibres cost twice as much to make , so why are the injection fins selling for more than the fibres ? Its a strategy that theres very little fibreglass fins on the market but lots of hexcore .

groundswell wrote:

why did you post this picture of your stretch fins in the bag ?

epoxy resin cost twice the cost of pe resin so a much better quality and if the fins are epoxy surely you will see it states it . just like the recent blackstix did on the future website

caml wrote:

udo wrote:

Zak had them in stock as of Nov 2015 ,still showing for sale on there online store.....click and proceed to checkout Caml.

I don't have to look I already enquired about 3 yrs ago & I will bet you a million dollars that none ever got into Australia . just cos somethings advertised on the Internet doesn't mean that theyre in stock . Do you understand my connections with future fins ? Im friends with the Australian reps & even the owner vince in the u.s.

Well Zak is a very bad boy Caml posting on his site that they had some sets IN stock ....very un Australian !

X

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

why did you post this picture of your stretch fins in the bag ?

Haha cause i dont know the model name, i thought you might. and Hako might want to know what model.
Heres a good setup i found for that board on lefts.

I dont think they are available anymore, i sold em for $80 hardly used when they go for around $170 or whatever. wish i still had them. sold within 20 minutes of posting on gumtree.

caml wrote:

udo wrote:

caml wrote:

udo wrote:

Zak had them in stock as of Nov 2015 ,still showing for sale on there online store.....click and proceed to checkout Caml.

I don't have to look I already enquired about 3 yrs ago & I will bet you a million dollars that none ever got into Australia . just cos somethings advertised on the Internet doesn't mean that theyre in stock . Do you understand my connections with future fins ? Im friends with the Australian reps & even the owner vince in the u.s.

Well Zak is a very bad boy Caml posting on his site that they had some sets IN stock ....very un Australian !

hes not the only one im sure , well why dont you call him up and prove me wrong ? i wanted that set badly but could not get any hope of them from the enquiries made and have never ever seen them antwhere not in photos of hawaii or nothing

Caml ,Zak must be fibbin eh..... he even posted a pick on his insty 19 weeks ago......saying he had some sets in stock ??????

udo yes so he did ! well maybe there is hope for me because all my enquiries were 2-3 yrs ago . and so gave up the idea after i was assured they wouldnt be available in oz

groundswell wrote:

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

why did you post this picture of your stretch fins in the bag ?

Haha cause i dont know the model name, i thought you might. and Hako might want to know what model.
Heres a good setup i found for that board on lefts.

I dont think they are available anymore, i sold em for $80 hardly used when they go for around $170 or whatever. wish i still had them. sold within 20 minutes of posting on gumtree.

hako rates the stretch ?

caml wrote:

Ok I will tell you the big difference between real fibre panel fins vs injection made types . About 50 yrs of life .
Hexcore can crack arond the base on the first surf , fibreglass will not crack for 50 yrs . Hexcore will chip and begin to crumble & continue to deteriorate any time that you hit a rock or whatever , the fins have a lifespan of a few yrs .
You are the one being fooled by marketing id they tell you that theyre better , but as I said earlier the profit is bigger than fibreglass in sales because cheaper cost to make but higher price to sell .
Genuine fibres sell for less than the hexcore so u are being fooled by marketing .
Fibres can even be sanded down if you want

another comparison would be the chop strand mat vs 6oz cloth , thats why the moulded fins crack and decay . because the chop mat is low quality

caml wrote:

udo yes so he did ! well maybe there is hope for me because all my enquiries were 2-3 yrs ago . and so gave up the idea after i was assured they wouldnt be available in oz

Available in the States for $US 90 per set ...so even with currency conversion and shipping ends up cheaper than ZAK ...but with your Futures connections you may do better.

caml wrote:

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

caml wrote:

Just to put things in perspective , tyres for professional racing are better than the $40 retread second handys for driving the old bomb in a country road . Its pretty obvious that if you want to drive extremely fast you need the better rubber

Yeah and off road tyres are noisy on blacktop, some tyre your paying for the millions of dollars in sponsorship,blah blah blah, not a real good analogy mate, fins aren't tyres, no comparison, that's what I reckon anyways:-)

Ok fine don't take my advice then

I'm just discussing fins, it's a forum not your personal advice column. Perhaps if you did not use such a condescending tone in your posts I would refrain from taking the piss out of you:-) I wont harp on it though i'm just telling you once not 3 times;-D So I'll be off to the salvo's

i shouldnt even be on the forum today. , it always seems that if your not in the right mood you get caught up with others who want to argue and troll ( not you hako i mean me )

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

why did you post this picture of your stretch fins in the bag ?

Haha cause i dont know the model name, i thought you might. and Hako might want to know what model.
Heres a good setup i found for that
[IMG]http:board .//i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/mattGroundswell/blue%20magic%20gem%20banks/CAM00108-1.jpg[/IMG]

I dont think they are available anymore, i sold em for $80 hardly used when they go for around $170 or whatever. wish i still had them. sold within 20 minutes of posting on gumtree.

hako rates the stretch i remember now but back then he was rojer ramjet or ding doctor or one of his various momikers

That's so funny, you think you know who I am but really have know idea. Mate I'm not trolling I'm just discussing, if any one is trolling it's you trolling for oxygen to inflate your ego. Let it go mate, calling someone a troll cause they don't agree with your theories isn't on and does very little for your credibility. :-)

!

No I didn't mean you .I meant myself get caught up .or thats how anyone gets into arguments

udo wrote:

caml wrote:

udo yes so he did ! well maybe there is hope for me because all my enquiries were 2-3 yrs ago . and so gave up the idea after i was assured they wouldnt be available in oz

Available in the States for $US 90 per set ...so even with currency conversion and shipping ends up cheaper than ZAK ...but with your Futures connections you may do better.

Udo your onto it , my apologies for dismissing your claim . I had enquired extensively a few years back but it seems there is a few sets available now . I just called futures man to ask & might be in luck . Excuse my intolerance the coffee was too strong this morn

Lucky we didn't bet on it lol !

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

caml wrote:

groundswell wrote:

why did you post this picture of your stretch fins in the bag ?

see how easy it is to read things and get the wrong idea ? i wasnt even talking about you , was saying about myself , all because of the words that may not be written in the best way

Haha cause i dont know the model name, i thought you might. and Hako might want to know what model.
Heres a good setup i found for that
[IMG]http:board .//i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/mattGroundswell/blue%20magic%20gem%20banks/CAM00108-1.jpg[/IMG]

I dont think they are available anymore, i sold em for $80 hardly used when they go for around $170 or whatever. wish i still had them. sold within 20 minutes of posting on gumtree.

hako rates the stretch i remember now but back then he was rojer ramjet or ding doctor or one of his various momikers

That's so funny, you think you know who I am but really have know idea. Mate I'm not trolling I'm just discussing, if any one is trolling it's you trolling for oxygen to inflate your ego. Let it go mate, calling someone a troll cause they don't agree with your theories isn't on and does very little for your credibility. :-)

caml wrote:

caml wrote:

Ok I will tell you the big difference between real fibre panel fins vs injection made types . About 50 yrs of life .
Hexcore can crack arond the base on the first surf , fibreglass will not crack for 50 yrs . Hexcore will chip and begin to crumble & continue to deteriorate any time that you hit a rock or whatever , the fins have a lifespan of a few yrs .
You are the one being fooled by marketing id they tell you that theyre better , but as I said earlier the profit is bigger than fibreglass in sales because cheaper cost to make but higher price to sell .
Genuine fibres sell for less than the hexcore so u are being fooled by marketing .
Fibres can even be sanded down if you want

another comparison would be the chop strand mat vs 6oz cloth , thats why the moulded fins crack and decay . because the chop mat is low quality

hope this helps to realize why i say fibres are the best ( not necessarily performance but for buying value )

Caml , Greg Griffin thruster set G10s are $US 95 plus shipping which I think is $20.

IMHO, wave size and type needs to be taken into account when assessing the merits of fin construction material. So too, the type of surfing.

I'm not into big wave surfing, so can not comment on that realm.

Beach break and point surf is my domain for 99% of the time, and the "modern" injection moulded fin construction (albeit with some flex management) in the templates I like work fine for me.

I've played around with different fins, both construction and template (and FWIW, placement, cant etc.) but all for the same wave type (i.e. beach break and points) and seem to keep coming back to the same fin templates - the Shapers Asher Pacey AP02 fins in both quad and thruster (you can get 'em as a five fin pack). Prior to then, the K2.1 FCS fins were my go to fins.

rule303 wrote:

Wingnut thanks for the link earlier
Have you used http://finsciences.com/shop/ , price is ok ,

No mate. I ended up going down a path of exploring fin placement, toe in angle, and fin cant. Then life threw a curve ball at us that depleted the surplus funds for my hobby. Rebuilding the kitty bank now.

I do, however, have this in my possession at the moment:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=749743268504564&set=a.1278049640...

Just gotta get the strength back in my back so I can go surfing again. Tweaked it last weekend.

udo wrote:

Caml , Greg Griffin thruster set G10s are $US 95 plus shipping which I think is $20.

Udo gregs fins are so good & g-10 is the highest grade fin the sort of material that George greenough has his fins made from . Have u seen @ true ames fins ? They show some of the materials that greenough is playing with

Do you know of any surfer /shapers that use fins with zero flex... as in stiff as a steel plate ?
Whats crouch grizzling about.....fuck get that fin scanned and a batch cnc'd its not that expensive and get them out there.

Udo im not sure what you have said in the comment above in the second sentence . But the first question is ; g-10 has barely any flex but surely some . George got 3 made recently , one g10 one volan cloth/pe resin & one with some sort of carbon/titanium type stuff . Quote the "g-10 is something that will last for centuries".
Also I have some g-10 fin myself udo , enough to keep satisfied with at moment thanks .

Caml click on Wingnuts link.

Its common for futures models to be available in the states but not in oz , ive woked closely with futures for years so that was part of reason I jumped to the conclusion yesterday , also I had tried to get some pipe gun fins & was told genuinely that it would not happen , things changed and I was not aware so yep my mistake & thanks for the tip off I have some coming now

udo wrote:

Caml click on Wingnuts link.

The Facebook one ? I did, that is cute

@true ames fins says georges fins have different flex types in fact some that have short life span due to fatigue , one of the materials is lw90 might be the titaniun carbon thing I was told about

Fuck I'd like to get into your car when your not around caml , I'd re-arrange your fins, mix them up and hide one or two. Send you bloody nuts.

Hako o hakonde ni-biki no inu wrote:

Fuck I'd like to get into your car when your not around caml , I'd re-arrange your fins, mix them up and hide one or two. Send you bloody nuts.

Haha bikini,
For sure, but we would both would be running to hide under the bridge!-(

Dead Kook surfboards , Electric Twins semi keel ..nice looking fin for you twinnie lovers they also make some nice looking bonzers boards, lots of pics on insta.