FINS -Glass on or which Fin System

yes 303, I'd love your fins.

Would you like some money in return ?

Speaking of fins, apparently these are what Kelly has been riding last few days, pretty out there watch the vid thing....he really is getting more like Curren every year.

https://www.instagram.com/rchbrgsurf/

IMO Kelly has lost the plot just like Curran did. And will end up in
pro surfers waist land lucky he has other interest to carry on with.
Unlike Curran.

Fins, the dark sciences right there, to speak about fins with authority ... well you have sold your soul to the devil. Time and time again I've changed my fins and bang the board acts and performs differently. Try it on a single fin and the difference is like totally a new board .....

Every aspect of board and fin design makes a massive difference but when I hear guys talking about this sort of stuff I always have a sly look to see what sort of shape they are in, coz there is no use having a formula one board under your arm when the most important thing about the formula (your body) is a rust bucket Holden. Same thing happens with road bikers bullshiting about their super light carbon fibre bikes while defying the laws of physics stretching their lycra over their guts.

You think fong. Kelly would appear to be trying to reinvent the wheel, using old designs
that never really worked in the 1st place. The wheel by the way is not really broken.
Look what Kelly rode at volcom pro a normal conventional board. He won. SIMPLE

Only ever FCS , mainly due to availability and convenience.

Not disrespectfully wanting to derail your thread 303..... But I'm serious about those fins.

Body bash blowin you dont need fins

Evo what does kelly have to prove animal makes his own board on a tour sick cunt

Camel - interesting. Will keep an eye out for solid fiberglass fins next set. I have hexcore ones without really thinking about it.

What did kelly ride a front foot at the quick poo

I mean his board was a submarine...madness

Was just reading switchfoot 2 book with greenough story , says in 1956 or abouts that they began to use foiled fins ala the" modern fin " ( change from d-fin ) thats 60 yrs of these fins . This thread has gone a bit derailed by Sunday eve posters . But it seemed that some talk had started about why weren't skeg boxes being used . Will go back & look again , but can't find it ??

Off course early fin boxes back then might have been fine for single fins, but id imagine maybe it was hard to get the cant correct, when twins came in then latter thrusters?.

Although back then tail bottom shape was generally vee so even if the boxes sit flat you would think the cant would be correct?

I guess when channels came popular, things would have got more complicated.

rule303 wrote:

Couple of questions to continue the discussion. Ive immersed myself in Fins and systems since i posted the question, I am still uninspired spending $160+ for fins , I cannot bring myself to buy futures as they are all named after some pro or ex pro or hipster who is getting a cut. (Fut Funding their life)
the best i have found are http://www.outerislandsurfboards.com/switchblades/

Why not just use old school style of fin boxes, is the weight the issue?? Would it really affect performance.

Does any one know where i can buy a Fiberglass panel to make my own fins, Even some good links to making fiberglass fin panels or experiences with making them yourself.

You can buy fibreglass futures or whatever brand for way less . Shop around , try different brands that make them , 2nd hand or local shapers , other surfers , $20-30 per fin is what I asked for the ones I sold locally

Indofins out of Balungan make great fibreglass replicas of all fcs and futures, has a website but little shop on corner heading up to Ulus at Balungan turn off. I think i paid 450,000 (about 45-50au$) per set from memory they are coloured opaque fibreglass so hard to see the weave and how panel is laid up. Aus prices are top dollar for fin systems, cheaper in USA by about 1/3 in shops. Phils Foils in Ballina makes sick quality fins and if you prepared to wait he will do custom colour or models, not cheaper but handmade and more importantly Aussie made

Like to try a solid glass thruster set from Greg Griffin at Sunset, Web site for fins is down at present
very wide base fin............anybody tried Gregs fins or know the cost ?

Thatguys amazing udo , I dig his fins & shapes . Hes fins are g-10 so top end range

Gearbox fin systems have recently come to my attention

mike, don't hit a rock with yr Indo fins....not strong at all....they are foam filled and appear to be a plastic like coating...

its easy to make some marine ply fins, jigsaw/grinder for cut out and foils....the ply is strong and then ya only gota reinforce with layers of glass....not difficult to put a flange on to imitate a roving,,,,,, a fiddly job HOWEVER, its the cheapest way

Also, having a fin that floats is better than pure fibreglass which sinks......adds to the buoyancy and decreases the weight

FUTURES bases are easiest to do. and one less screw so makes it easier to swap over

Knowing who mike is hes going to need strong tab . One time indos made me some fins and used two layer of cloth so they cracked first use . What a joke ! I had told them too but because of the cost of cloth being more than resin they would try to pull a swifty

quadzilla wrote:

mike, don't hit a rock with yr Indo fins....not strong at all....they are foam filled and appear to be a plastic like coating...

its easy to make some marine ply fins, jigsaw/grinder for cut out and foils....the ply is strong and then ya only gota reinforce with layers of glass....not difficult to put a flange on to imitate a roving,,,,,, a fiddly job HOWEVER, its the cheapest way

Also, having a fin that floats is better than pure fibreglass which sinks......adds to the buoyancy and decreases the weight

FUTURES bases are easiest to do. and one less screw so makes it easier to swap over

Futures are harder to do IMO, with fcs the splay is in the plugs, they are at a set angle. Where as future boxes are set square to the bottom and the splay is set into the fin, so if you were making them from ply they would have no splay at all.

@s-wings

To make a ply fin with cant,you simply bevel the fin base(same as when we glassed them on) then attach to the base that inserts in the box.

Fair enough, the fins were for a board that arrived as a quad with fcs that was ment to be thruster glassed on, hardly ever ride it as a consequence so havent hit any rocks to see the core of the fins, i did crack an expensive fcs kelly quad in same board just surfing it, hexcore though. thats why i prefer glassed, less choice/confusion and min equipment failure and didnt dig the 4 fins no matter what combination i put in i, ok feel hanging high in the face but hard to drive around a corner and wobbly going strait in the flats

I have 2 sets,and after I clipped a rock very lightly...the interior was exposed....the outside coating sheeted off...so to fix it I had to compress epoxy into the hole then clamp it....I wouldn't buy those fins again

Okay, that's why those Indo fins were fairly flexy then, don't have them anymore so can't check them out but i actually thought they were solid fiberglass.

Penmister what language are you speaking?

303 had surfinz on an older board, decent system, a few mm's wiggle room with fcs fins for fine-tuning and never had any problems with strength or fin pop-outs.
Have used gearbox for my last couple boards, they were relatively easy to install under the glass so got a decent amount of strength like futures, FCS compatible and available in a range of cant angles, no complaints so far! https://www.gearbox.surf/index.html
Their fin range looks pretty interesting as well but haven't been able to get my hands on any yet.

Ok reviewing what Caml said about hexcore vs solid fibreglass I checked out the fins I had and swapped my main board to a set of predominately carbon fins (leading edge) plus fibreglass hexcore (trailing) from pure fibreglass hexcore. Not an identical fin but similar templates. Huge improvement in responsiveness! Stay away from fibreglass&hexcore is what I gathered from all this.

mk1 wrote:

Ok reviewing what Caml said about hexcore vs solid fibreglass I checked out the fins I had and swapped my main board to a set of predominately carbon fins (leading edge) plus fibreglass hexcore (trailing) from pure fibreglass hexcore. Not an identical fin but similar templates. Huge improvement in responsiveness! Stay away from fibreglass&hexcore is what I gathered from all this.

Is this last sentence a mistake?

Hexcore are great in smaller waves .its when its big that the fibre are the go . Plastic are ok for beginners

What's the thought process in thinking a fibreglass fin is better than a hexcore or a stiff plastic fin like thermotech?

Is it the stiffer the better?....I can understand very cheap plastic ones can be too flexy, but isn't a bit of flex good?

Ideally you want a solid base with some flex in the tip.

The problem is i guess with fin systems in particular FCS more than futures even a stiff fin will flex at the base, not the fin itself but at the plug/board, that' probably where those powerbase fins could give a little bit of a benefit.

I did a bit of a search and found this not sure how reliable it is but seem to talk a lot of scientific babble and the end result is pretty much my mindset, so i will post it :P

http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/~ernesto/SPR/Ippolito-FinalReport.pdf

Far out id that is a great bit of link . Im not going to read it now tho . Maybe I will have to prove why the injection fins are crappier or maybe I will give up trying to help . It would be foolish of me to go any further cos ive always had a theory you tell em once , but not more than 3 times

Might be a biased.. But we stock futures and gearbox systems for the main reasons strength and durability.
If you can't go glassed on. Under lamination systems in my opinion feel stronger.
Don't get me wrong FCS is a good system and the ease of changing fins is great. Maybe because I mainly do EPS boards I'm always thinking maybe the FCS fin hanging over the foam and glass that someone might pierce the skin with their fin? Anyone done this? Or am I just over thinking it?

Caml - I have confused it eh!? I dunno, the carbon fibre is heaps better than the fibreglass hexcore (both are shapers fins in futures boxes), but it could be the fin shape x board design. This is why I like glass ons - too many variables!

.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Okay, that's why those Indo fins were fairly flexy then, don't have them anymore so can't check them out but i actually thought they were solid fiberglass.

They would have had a fair amount of glass in them indo otherwise they would have snapped at the weakest point like caml's, and if there were few layers you would end up with stress cracks, probably the flex was due to not having much above 20 layers and sanding to much off the top half of the fin.
I love the plastic futures for my small wave boards and the quality of them over the years is getting better too.
Years ago when I used FCS I put a set of the biggest set of plastic thruster fins find into an okay board, turned it into one of the magic ones, the spring I got out of turns was insane. Suppose you would need to turn your board to appreciate the benefits;-)

indo-dreaming wrote:

I did a bit of a search and found this not sure how reliable it is but seem to talk a lot of scientific babble and the end result is pretty much my mindset, so i will post it :P

http://www.ewp.rpi.edu/hartford/~ernesto/SPR/Ippolito-FinalReport.pdf

Yep, makes sense to a beginner like meself. :-D

mk1 wrote:

Caml - I have confused it eh!? I dunno, the carbon fibre is heaps better than the fibreglass hexcore (both are shapers fins in futures boxes), but it could be the fin shape x board design. This is why I like glass ons - too many variables!

Yes I think so , because the difference is between plastic vs non plastic . The ones you are comparing without me actually seeing them sound like theyre in a similar category , I mean aren't they both hexcore ? or what do u mean by carbon ? Nobody has pure carbon fins, are they carbon hexcore or carbon/fibreglass (with some minor amount of black stripes ?) There is a difference too between hexcore & fibreglass too but we"ll discuss it another time

caml wrote:

mk1 wrote:

Caml - I have confused it eh!? I dunno, the carbon fibre is heaps better than the fibreglass hexcore (both are shapers fins in futures boxes), but it could be the fin shape x board design. This is why I like glass ons - too many variables!

Yes I think so , because the difference is between plastic vs non plastic . The ones you are comparing without me actually seeing them sound like theyre in a similar category , I mean aren't they both hexcore ? or what do u mean by carbon ? Nobody has pure carbon fins, are they carbon hexcore or carbon/fibreglass (with some minor amount of black stripes ?) There is a difference too between hexcore & fibreglass too but we"ll discuss it another time

Do u mean hexcore vs hexcore with carbon ? There is a minor difference there , but for experimental purposes its best to do drastic changes ie use plastic vs fibre first .

sanded wrote:

Might be a biased.. But we stock futures and gearbox systems for the main reasons strength and durability.
If you can't go glassed on. Under lamination systems in my opinion feel stronger.
Don't get me wrong FCS is a good system and the ease of changing fins is great. Maybe because I mainly do EPS boards I'm always thinking maybe the FCS fin hanging over the foam and glass that someone might pierce the skin with their fin? Anyone done this? Or am I just over thinking it?

No its true , the old fcs was notorious for that piercing

Just looking at fins on the Zak surfboards site,futures solid glass thruster pipe gun set $ 250 ........Phew !

Some fins are available in the us but not in oz

Just to put things in perspective , tyres for professional racing are better than the $40 retread second handys for driving the old bomb in a country road . Its pretty obvious that if you want to drive extremely fast you need the better rubber

Zak had them in stock as of Nov 2015 ,still showing for sale on there online store.....click and proceed to checkout Caml.

caml wrote:

Just to put things in perspective , tyres for professional racing are better than the $40 retread second handys for driving the old bomb in a country road . Its pretty obvious that if you want to drive extremely fast you need the better rubber

Yeah and off road tyres are noisy on blacktop, some tyre your paying for the millions of dollars in sponsorship,blah blah blah, not a real good analogy mate, fins aren't tyres, no comparison, that's what I reckon anyways:-)

Stretch in carbon/hexcore tip- Limited edition. Looks like they cant be bought from oz though.
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=cab77e9161b78b5f834111928&id=01a972f61a.
They were a smallish wave fin anyway i guess. Unless used just for the rears with bigger fibreglass fronts, i tried that and they were very drivey.