The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
^^^ yep
andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
you really think it was a reasonable offer?
where hamas stays in power...
seems bibi had to restrain himelf from laughing such was the disbelief...
and rightly so
Roadkill wrote:already sounding biased and closed there gary. It's easily proven through multiple sources...seriously..it's so easy to find this info, Try it
Maybe you can point me in the right direction. I'd be happy to have a read and open my mind up.
Cheers
garyg1412 wrote:Roadkill wrote:already sounding biased and closed there gary. It's easily proven through multiple sources...seriously..it's so easy to find this info, Try it
Maybe you can point me in the right direction. I'd be happy to have a read and open my mind up.
Cheers
do palestinians support hamas + google
do palestinians support oct 7 + google
What a great idea for a Jewish nation! Let's plonk them in the middle of Muslim country, surrounded on all sides, and let's say God (their God) said it be so... can humanity get any more stupid.
Oh yeah InfoDreamer... enjoying NEMESIS!!?? Haha what a bunch of backstabbing privateschool bastards. The LNP... always putting the Nation's interests first LOLOLOL
sypkan wrote:^^^ yep
andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
you really think it was a reasonable offer?
where hamas stays in power...
seems bibi had to restrain himelf from laughing such was the disbelief...
and rightly so
What does Gaza look like when Bibi can claim the completion of a successful operation?
How does the total destruction of Hamas, who he helped create look like.
From article
'In a sharp rebuff to the Biden administration and the visiting US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, Netanyahu said it would require months more fighting before Hamas was defeated.'
When do the Seppos lose patience, never mind the rest of the global community?
andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
yvdreh wrote:49 pages????? Go for a surf ya silly billy's.
(your post was 38 days ago @yvdreh .. a little over a page a day since, by my reckoning!)
garyg1412 wrote:Roadkill wrote:already sounding biased and closed there gary. It's easily proven through multiple sources...seriously..it's so easy to find this info, Try it
Maybe you can point me in the right direction. I'd be happy to have a read and open my mind up.
Cheers
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
Yeah Roady, I'm a closet muzzie extremist, bring on the Koranic world order... pfft
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
Yeah Roady, I'm a closet muzzie extremist, bring on the Koranic world order... pfft
That's the usual way for you it seems...straight into ridiculous dramatics. pfft always used rather than answering
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
Yeah Roady, I'm a closet muzzie extremist, bring on the Koranic world order... pfft
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well. so some in Hamas don't want peace says there are some in Hamas that do want peace.
considering Hamas wants the total destruction of Israel and all Israelis...can you tell me who those in Hamas that want peace are?
by saying there are some that want peace...you are legitimising them and giving them credibility as a section that is worthy of engaging as they want peace. = offering support to some in Hamas
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
Yeah Roady, I'm a closet muzzie extremist, bring on the Koranic world order... pfft
That's the usual way for you it seems...straight into ridiculous dramatics. pfft always used rather than answering
Hahaha, you are claiming ridiculous after continually calling me a Hamas supporter.
Hey heads up, I don't support Hamas, or any form of Religious extremism (Islam included) I believe is not only dangerous, but also stupid.
Get it?
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
"Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well." = this is offering support to Hamas.
Yeah Roady, I'm a closet muzzie extremist, bring on the Koranic world order... pfft
That's the usual way for you it seems...straight into ridiculous dramatics. pfft always used rather than answering
Hahaha, you are claiming ridiculous after continually calling me a Hamas supporter.
Hey heads up, I don't support Hamas, or any form of Religious extremism (Islam included) I believe is not only dangerous, but also stupid.
Get it?
who in Hamas wants peace?
News is hardly a conspiracy...wiki Map / List + Syndicated World media promoting Israel #1 Toll Canal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_members_of_the_United_State...
If First Nation &/or Kiwis over represented in Oz Govt to control 9% upper House + 6% lower house.
Pretty sure they'd outlaw Reffos to address that...no need as First Nation would rule Oz & our Govt.
With the voice being kicked to the curb...expect greater numbers of Elected First Nation to block supply!
Explain to vast Voting Majority that by voting they forfeited their democratic right to fair representation.
Shoulda voted Yes when ya had the chance...reckon a handful of First Nation Teals sing louder longer!
tbb's take is hardly Antisemitic but anti Democratic as tbb don't vote & respects Jewish people!
Oz chief lawmaker is Jewish & our Former treasurer next PM to be is Jewish...is that fair representation.
Fact that a select few Jews and Muslims dictate Oz Law & Foreign Policy right now is a wake up call.
Israel media pursue & promote over representation of Jews in Oz Power positions as a good thing! Huh!
https://www.australianjewishnews.com/elected-record-number-jews/
There is no secret about Jews exploiting antidemocratic power roles.(wiki run US Jew pollies Hot 100)
tbb thinks it's vile to exploit our democracy & refrains from voting...Jews openly cheer it on...Why is that?
Already a gross over representation of Jewish Pop base > More, they say...we shouldn't stop there.
Then Jewish Treasurer : 'It will be fantastic to see so many Jewish Politicians elected to Parliament!'
What respect for any Pollie was instantly lost by celebrating Religious Power Corruption! Why incite!
How & why would an already above quota of elected Oz Jews campaign for more power over Oz pop!
Jewish power mad fuckers right there...appetite for 'ultimate power' to rule over others is a conspiracy!
Jews make & decide all Oz Laws... sounds a bit rich ya think...
Then ask who signed off on Oz local neighbourhood slaves to build bombs for Israel to Kill poorest kids!
Hardly think the Mayor can funnel Israel WMD without #1 Jewish Lawmakers rubber stamping that!
Hardly antisemitic or disrespectful to share Oz Attorney General is a proud Jew!
Nor to enquire as why Jews in Lead governing roles are wildly disproportionate in many democracy.
Read the wiki US Jew pollie list...please share the even more gross exaggeration of Legal Power Roles.
tbb can openly share an even more insane over represented % of US Jewish Pollies are Law makers..
Need a thicker Jotting pad, wrist bandage and a new script for more Psych Meds for next level tally!
Exactly...the same here isn't it...so we all pretend that Jews aren't power drunk to bomb our burbs.!
Wot happens when ya ask about that...
Hi! I'm a Jew...any slur you cast, is used against you by your Jewish Judge in your Jewish court of Law
Ya see that right there...all this surprisingly rubs the locals up the wrong way...can't imagine why huh!
Q: Why do only devout Jews seek over representation of power to control Local - Global Policy & laws!
And why must these Jews prioritize us and all others to build their weapons for their mass killings...
Why is wrong to question that & be labelled antisemitic.
Why are over 70 Israeli War factories now neighbouring our schools / parks / playgrounds...
Must our school kids cheer on their local neighbourhood Israeli Bomb factory to Kill more foreign Kidz.
Should we enquire as to how many were rubber stamped by high level Oz Jewish Pollies.
Again...sorry tbb can't answer that...only know the line was crossed & good folk will defend schools!
Punching above yer weight is fine to drink Covid from a Goblet but not to over rule others lives.
Only Jews can refrain from bossing nations of people...All pray that be soon...to advance world peace!
Tip! When any Religion overtly corrupts power to govern nations...please never anyone cheer for that!
Evil Plan is not working...ask any global citizen...spiritual folk need to practice their humble teachings!
All say Aye...
Message being sent by Jews is their religion has no respect for our sharing caring democratic village.
Mr #1 Oz Jew Lawmaker : "Get yer Bomb factories outta our Kid'z tuckshops ...Now please!"
There...said it...Now gonna be labelled anti whateva foreva...from inside a Jail no doubt!
Hardly think global citizens are rooting for Israel's weaponized canal that our Pollies prescribe to.
Med Eco system was flushed by new Suez flow Canal > Huge Israel Canal = Med / Diet wasteland.
Wotz New : "Plenty more iron in yer new Israeli Med Diet!"
[ factcheck ] tbb has only ever sought two Autographs & for over 55 years only just the one.
That being a proud Jewish fellow swellnetonian World Champ Athlete
tbb shamefully bypasses all greatest Oz athletes to desire an o's Jew's Autograph...(Anti-Oz Traitor?)
Settle down...the other being a fellow Qldurr...World Surf Champ Tom Marr....Hi Tom!
Completely despise that they harshly shield out infinite sensational insightful surfing skills...
tbb overlooks both Religion & Ocean Disconnect to believe in both...goes against core values but hey!
Both were humbly stoked by tbb's request & all lovingly share the stoke of our local beachgoers!
tbb welcomes, respects & values any meet'n'greets from religious overlords to shielded tribeswomen.
Happily openly welcome a Jewish congregation into tbb's humble abode..right now without notice!
Same goes for Muslims or The Mob...sit next to any on trains...not fussed & smile to each'n'all equally!
Despite having death threats and blades pressed in all vitals...tbb is most forgiving of fellow man!
Just don't think Bombs & Kidz are a good fit...if that makes tbb antisemitic then so be it. Peace to all!
TBB you really need to brush up on what is and what isn’t antisemitism because mate, your posts are dripping in the former.
This is a good resource. https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
Bagging Israel for their policies is not antisemitic - blaming the jewish diaspora is.
Maybe you think you are pointing out a conflict of interest? A recent example of that would be MWM where they have been questioning or accusing Israeli lobby group of interference. That’s not antisemitic. What you are doing however is assigning guilt collectively to a very diverse small group of global people (of which religion is probably a minor link that binds them to being jewish) all over the world for the actions of another country. You are labelling all jews as a people to be wary of. They are dangerous. You are questioning where their honour and where their true loyalty lies when it comes to their country, jobs, purpose.
Check out some of these things you have written:
“By end of 1990's Jews hold US balance of US Power over both Houses & Parties...(too easy!)
….2000's party has ever won a large enough majority to overrule US Jewish cross party Voting Block.
Same as it ever was...Jews running Global Shipping Taxes.
Jews as weaponized WSL ultimate Pirate Trolls of the high seas...pay up punks! Said more! More!
here is no secret about Jews exploiting antidemocratic power roles.(wiki run US Jew pollies Hot 100)
it's vile to exploit our democracy & refrains from voting...Jews openly cheer it on.
Jewish power mad fuckers right there.
Jews make & decide all Oz Laws..”
I stopped copying there.. This is antisemitic conspiracy bullshit. Straight up.
Your recent 2 posts aside which is straight up jew hate - What’s been surprising to me is just how often this stuff slips through in the comments, wilfully or not.
I mean do you people even Left??
It’s the world’s oldest conspiracy and its as ripe as it ever was.
basesix wrote:yvdreh wrote:49 pages????? Go for a surf ya silly billy's.
(your post was 38 days ago @yvdreh .. a little over a page a day since, by my reckoning!)
Shit, ya can toast marshmallows on the hatred.
Speaking of which, i haven’t had a s’more in a long while.
Bucket list item for this summer.
Over thousands of years , Jews for some reason , have been good Money Managers , above all other professions .
We chose a wonderful Jewish doctor and hospital to have our children in .
Caesar's most trusted financial advisor was Jewish .
The Rothschilds .
Trust and reputation are a reliable money managers core values .
Think Buffet and Munger !
Power then comes with the money , business .
So the Jews are probably more trustworthy , that's interesting .
Our political and judicial systems, way off life etc , in Melbourne, is NOT dominated by any single group !
We are 2 big , united and strong for that 2 ever happen .
No way !
wax24 wrote:Shit, ya can toast marshmallows on the hatred.
Speaking of which, i haven’t had a s’more in a long while.
Bucket list item for this summer.
Loved the A51 adventure story from the W24 vault btw ; )
gis' a salmon-bay-s'more campfire recipe @wax..
bonza wrote:TBB you really need to brush up on what is and what isn’t antisemitism because mate, your posts are dripping in the former.
This is a good resource. https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
Bagging Israel for their policies is not antisemitic - blaming the jewish diaspora is.
Maybe you think you are pointing out a conflict of interest? A recent example of that would be MWM where they have been questioning or accusing Israeli lobby group of interference. That’s not antisemitic. What you are doing however is assigning guilt collectively to a very diverse small group of global people (of which religion is probably a minor link that binds them to being jewish) all over the world for the actions of another country. You are labelling all jews as a people to be wary of. They are dangerous. You are questioning where their honour and where their true loyalty lies when it comes to their country, jobs, purpose.
Check out some of these things you have written:
“By end of 1990's Jews hold US balance of US Power over both Houses & Parties...(too easy!)
….2000's party has ever won a large enough majority to overrule US Jewish cross party Voting Block.
Same as it ever was...Jews running Global Shipping Taxes.
Jews as weaponized WSL ultimate Pirate Trolls of the high seas...pay up punks! Said more! More!
here is no secret about Jews exploiting antidemocratic power roles.(wiki run US Jew pollies Hot 100)
it's vile to exploit our democracy & refrains from voting...Jews openly cheer it on.
Jewish power mad fuckers right there.
Jews make & decide all Oz Laws..”I stopped copying there.. This is antisemitic conspiracy bullshit. Straight up.
Your recent 2 posts aside which is straight up jew hate - What’s been surprising to me is just how often this stuff slips through in the comments, wilfully or not.
I mean do you people even Left??
It’s the world’s oldest conspiracy and its as ripe as it ever was.
According to soggybiscuit”
TBB, always a deep diver. And you flippantly write his contribution off too. No one on here bases their posts deeper in facts and research. And you with your made up statistics and suppositions based in nothing but bias writ his contribution off. You’re as big of an ignorant cockhead as Info. Roll on Dill.”
Memorable mention goes to this line
“ No one on here bases their posts deeper in facts and research.”
soggydog wrote:https://www.globalresearch.ca/war-and-natural-gas-the-israeli-invasion-a...
No surprise to see you are now dabbling in conspiracy theory nutter stuff, anything to diss Israel and Jew's hey.
The real problem with this conspiracy theory is the gas field's were know about at least since 2000 five years before Israel gave Gaza away in a peace plan and the gas there is pretty much insignificant to the gas fields Israel has.
And im certain Israel also knew about the oil & gas reserves in Sinai peninsula when they gave that back too Egypt in the 80's
"Gas at stake in Gaza? Why this theory doesn't hold true"
https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1357621/gas-at-stake-in-gaza-why...
gsco mkII wrote:personally I would rate The Guardian's reporting of this ME ordeal as the most blatantly, unashamedly, disgracefully biased out of all the MSN, apart from and second only to Al Jazeera.
Neither are valid, trustworthy or reliable media outlets. They're just blatant propaganda dissemination bureaus, each in their own unique way and pushing their own unique agendas and ideological bias.
What the above article is really referring to is a blatant attempt by Hamas to regroup, restock and reinforce its power, authority and stranglehold over Gaza; it's not a peace or ceasefire proposal.
Yet Hamas is wining the information war since the situation is being sold by many MSN outlets, including The Guardian and Al Jazeera, as a ceasefire or peace proposal that is being rejected by Israel. There's actually even people falling for this Hamas information war tactic and saying things like "Israel isn't interested in peace but Hamas is" etc.
Things couldn't be any more deranged.
But it's definitely fascinating to observe it play out.
100% agree,
sypkan wrote:^^^ yep
andy-mac wrote:Doesn't seem like Bibi wants peace or a solution...
Yeah sure there are some in Hamas that don't as well.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/07/netanyahu-rejects-gaza-cea...
you really think it was a reasonable offer?
where hamas stays in power...
seems bibi had to restrain himelf from laughing such was the disbelief...
and rightly so
Yeah ridiculous wish list from Hamas. (see below, translated from a crazy Arabic website).
Bring a war to Gaza then play good guys.
Hamas trying to make this deal probably suggest Hamas are getting pretty fucked over though, which is a good thing.
No deal that see's Hamas survive will ever be entered into though.
"Cessation of military operations in preparation for “complete and calm” and the withdrawal of the occupation forces to the cover
135 days of truce in 3 stages: enemy prisoners and the bodies of its soldiers versus Palestinian prisoners and the bodies of martyrs.
Stop the settlers’ incursions into Al-Aqsa and return the conditions in the to what they were before 2002.
Al-Akhbar publishes the following, the verbatim text, of the response that the Hamas movement delivered to the Qatari and Egyptian mediators to the “Framework Agreement” paper that was presented to it after the Paris meeting. The American and Israeli sides received a copy of Hamas’ response, which consists of 3 pages, including amendments to the “Framework Agreement” paper, in addition to a special annex for guarantees and demands aimed at stopping the aggression and eliminating its effects: Draft
- Initial response / Hamas movement’s response
to a general framework of the agreement. Comprehensive between the parties
(between the Israeli occupation, Hamas, and the Palestinian factions).
This agreement aims to stop mutual military operations between the parties, reach complete and sustainable calm, exchange prisoners between the two parties, end the siege on Gaza, rebuild, return residents and displaced people to their homes, and provide shelter requirements. And relief for all residents in all areas of the Gaza Strip, according to the following stages:
The first stage (45 days):
This humanitarian stage aims to release all Israeli detainees, women and children (under the age of 19, not conscripts), the elderly and the sick, in exchange for a specific number of prisoners. The Palestinians, in addition to intensifying humanitarian aid, repositioning forces outside populated areas, allowing the start of reconstruction work on hospitals, homes and facilities in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and allowing the United Nations and its agencies to provide humanitarian services and establish shelter camps for the population, according to the following:
- A temporary cessation of operations. Military, stopping aerial reconnaissance, and repositioning Israeli forces far outside the populated areas in the entire Gaza Strip, to be along the dividing line, in order to enable the parties to complete the exchange of detainees and prisoners.
The two parties will release Israeli detainees, women and children (under the age of 19, not conscripts), the elderly, and the sick, in exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners, provided that this is done in a way that ensures the release during this stage of all persons whose names are included in the previously agreed upon lists.
- Intensifying the introduction of quantities necessary and sufficient to meet the needs of the population (to be determined) of humanitarian aid, fuel, and the like, on a daily basis, as well as allowing the arrival of appropriate quantities of humanitarian aid to all areas in the Gaza Strip, including the north of the Strip, and the return of the displaced to their places of residence in all areas. sector.
- Reconstructing hospitals in all the sectors, introducing what is necessary to establish population camps/tents to house the population, and resuming all humanitarian services provided to the population by the United Nations and its agencies.
- Starting (indirect) discussions regarding the requirements necessary to restore complete calm.
- The attached appendix detailing the details of the first phase is an integral part of this agreement, provided that the details of the second and third phases will be agreed upon during the implementation of the first phase.
The second stage (45 days):
The (indirect) discussions on the requirements necessary to continue the cessation of mutual military operations and return to a state of complete calm must be completed and announced before implementing the second phase. This phase aims to release all male detainees (civilians and conscripts), in exchange for specific numbers of Palestinian prisoners, The continuation of the humanitarian measures for the first phase, the withdrawal of Israeli forces outside the borders of all areas of the Gaza Strip, and the start of comprehensive reconstruction work for the homes, facilities and infrastructure that were destroyed in all areas of the Gaza Strip, according to specific mechanisms that guarantee the implementation of this and the complete end of the siege on the Gaza Strip in accordance with what will be agreed upon. It is in the first stage.
The third stage (45 days):
This stage aims to exchange the bodies and remains of the dead with both sides after arriving and identifying them, and to continue the humanitarian procedures for the first and second stages, in accordance with what will be agreed upon in the first and second stages.
Annex to the Framework Agreement: Details of the first phase
- complete cessation of military operations on both sides, and cessation of all forms of air activity, including reconnaissance, for the duration of this phase.
- Repositioning Israeli forces far outside the populated areas throughout the Gaza Strip, to be along the dividing line to the east and north, in order to enable the parties to complete the exchange of detainees and prisoners.
The two parties will release Israeli detainees, including women, children (under the age of 19, not conscripts), the elderly, and the sick, in exchange for all prisoners in the occupation prisons, including women, children, the elderly (over 50 years of age), and the sick, who have been arrested until the date of signing this agreement, without exception. In addition to 1,500 Palestinian prisoners, Hamas nominates 500 of them to receive life sentences and high sentences.
- Completing the necessary legal procedures to ensure that Palestinian and Arab prisoners are not re-arrested on the same charge for which they were arrested.
Mutual and simultaneous release takes place in a way that ensures the release during this stage of all persons whose names are included in the previously agreed upon lists, and names and lists are exchanged before implementation.
- Improving the conditions of prisoners in the occupation prisons and lifting the measures and penalties that were taken after 10/7/2023.
- Stopping the incursions and aggression of Israeli settlers against Al-Aqsa Mosque and returning the conditions in Al-Aqsa Mosque to what they were before 2002.
- Intensifying the introduction of quantities necessary and sufficient for the needs of the population (not less than 500 trucks) of humanitarian aid, fuel and the like, on a daily basis, as well as It allows adequate amounts of humanitarian aid to reach all areas of the Gaza Strip, especially the northern Gaza Strip.
- The return of the displaced to their places of residence in all areas of the Gaza Strip, and ensuring the freedom of movement of residents and citizens by all means of transportation and not impeding it in all areas of the Gaza Strip, especially from south to north.
- Ensuring the opening of all crossings with the Gaza Strip, the return of trade, and allowing the free movement of people and goods without obstacles.
- Lifting any Israeli restrictions on the movement of passengers, sick and wounded through the Rafah crossing.
- Ensuring that all wounded men, women and children can go abroad for treatment without restrictions.
Egypt and Qatar will lead the efforts with all necessary authorities to manage and supervise ensuring, achieving and completing the following issues:
1- Providing and introducing sufficient and necessary heavy equipment to remove rubble and rubble.
2- Providing civil defense equipment and the requirements of the Ministry of Health.
3- The process of rebuilding hospitals and bakeries in all of the sector and introducing what is necessary to establish population camps/tents to shelter the population.
4- Entering at least 60,000 temporary homes (caravans/containers), so that every week from the entry into force of this phase, 15,000 homes will enter the Gaza Strip, in addition to 200,000 shelter tents, at a rate of 50,000 tents each week, to shelter those who were destroyed. The occupation of their homes during the war.
5- Beginning the reconstruction and repair of infrastructure in all areas of the sector, and rehabilitating the electricity, communications and water networks.
6- Approving a plan for the reconstruction of homes, economic establishments, and public facilities that were destroyed due to the aggression, and scheduling the reconstruction process for a period not exceeding 3 years.
Resuming all humanitarian services provided to the population in all areas of the Gaza Strip, by the United Nations and its agencies, especially UNRWA, and all international organizations working to begin their work in all areas of the Gaza Strip as it was before 10/7/2023.
- Re-supplying the Gaza Strip with the necessary fuel to reconfigure the power plant and all sectors.
- The occupation’s commitment to supply Gaza with its electricity and water needs.
- Initiating (indirect) discussions regarding the necessary requirements for continuing the cessation of mutual military operations in order to return to a state of complete and mutual calm.
- The exchange process is closely linked to the extent to which commitment is achieved to enter adequate aid, relief and shelter that were mentioned and agreed upon.
Guarantors of the agreement: (Egypt, Qatar, Turkey, Russia, the United Nations).
I like to think it's just as popd says...
however, when too much money and power is amassed... well...
re. the muslim / jew rivalry / hate...
I often wonder how much is based or seeded around the fact jews have been smart with money, finance, and business... enabling disproportionate success...
and conversely, in islam it is actually 'haram' to either make money from interest, and even pay interest... so banking and loans are bad, and there's more focus on a trading culture...
(not that the indo's seem to care with all those bikes and cars on tick...)
I think this is the basis of a lot of resentment, and probably why some places and / or cultures flourish, and others seem quite stagnant...
an other point is, it's generally regarded islamic cultures can be quite backward looking, focussing in the islamic golden age when they dominated influence across the world...
and, western cultures are generally forward looking, with a focus and emphasis on the future, and what is possible...
sorry, probably being terribly racist and antisemetic...
but I believe these to be massive contributing factors... to lots of things...
basesix wrote:wax24 wrote:Shit, ya can toast marshmallows on the hatred.
Speaking of which, i haven’t had a s’more in a long while.
Bucket list item for this summer.Loved the A51 adventure story from the W24 vault btw ; )
gis' a salmon-bay-s'more campfire recipe @wax..
Odd response, Base, but i don’t recall too many, if any, coastal s’mores. They’ve all been inland, by memory.
But that can’t be right.
Bucket list item for this summer Rev A: Coastal S’mores.
Roadkill wrote:bonza wrote:TBB you really need to brush up on what is and what isn’t antisemitism because mate, your posts are dripping in the former.
This is a good resource. https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism
Bagging Israel for their policies is not antisemitic - blaming the jewish diaspora is.
Maybe you think you are pointing out a conflict of interest? A recent example of that would be MWM where they have been questioning or accusing Israeli lobby group of interference. That’s not antisemitic. What you are doing however is assigning guilt collectively to a very diverse small group of global people (of which religion is probably a minor link that binds them to being jewish) all over the world for the actions of another country. You are labelling all jews as a people to be wary of. They are dangerous. You are questioning where their honour and where their true loyalty lies when it comes to their country, jobs, purpose.
Check out some of these things you have written:
“By end of 1990's Jews hold US balance of US Power over both Houses & Parties...(too easy!)
….2000's party has ever won a large enough majority to overrule US Jewish cross party Voting Block.
Same as it ever was...Jews running Global Shipping Taxes.
Jews as weaponized WSL ultimate Pirate Trolls of the high seas...pay up punks! Said more! More!
here is no secret about Jews exploiting antidemocratic power roles.(wiki run US Jew pollies Hot 100)
it's vile to exploit our democracy & refrains from voting...Jews openly cheer it on.
Jewish power mad fuckers right there.
Jews make & decide all Oz Laws..”I stopped copying there.. This is antisemitic conspiracy bullshit. Straight up.
Your recent 2 posts aside which is straight up jew hate - What’s been surprising to me is just how often this stuff slips through in the comments, wilfully or not.
I mean do you people even Left??
It’s the world’s oldest conspiracy and its as ripe as it ever was.
According to soggybiscuit”
TBB, always a deep diver. And you flippantly write his contribution off too. No one on here bases their posts deeper in facts and research. And you with your made up statistics and suppositions based in nothing but bias writ his contribution off. You’re as big of an ignorant cockhead as Info. Roll on Dill.”Memorable mention goes to this line
“ No one on here bases their posts deeper in facts and research.”
Well I would say given the extreme influence the Isreal lobby try’s to extend world wide which part of the facts TBB presented are wrong. Yes he could have differentiated between the Zionist lobby and the Jewish diaspora at large, but it’s a given that most Zionists around the world are Jewish and the isreal project is mostly supported by people of the Jewish faith. Guilty by association…. No. But given the proposition put forward by your self and Indo that all people who are critical of Israel are anti Semitic and Hamas simps. It’s pretty hypocritical to jump on TBB.
There have been many posts placed on this very page by many of us of Jewish scholars and Orthodox Jews denouncing the actions of Israel. And the likes of your self and especially Indo have dismissed the positions presented because of some imagined divine rite to the land. This argument has become Indo’s last stand. That and that anyone who speaks ill of the wagon that you guys have hitched yourselves to are some sort of anti semites, Hamas simps or, this one really displays what a cockhead info is, an enemy of the west. Maybe we’re just humanitarians who see through the bullshit.
I myself have been critical of Israel and the Zionist project years before Oct 7 2023. I read the articles of subjugation and murder. Children where being murdered well before Oct 7. Possibly by Hamas but most news articles where reports of the murderous intent of the IDF.
And as for TBB.
When isn’t he doing deep dives?
Like I said like two peas( cockheads ) in a pod.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/israel-grants-oil-rights...
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.aspx?IG=38ED36F49655475696C375D581F...
Just to show info and the dill. Isreal has form. So no conspiracy cockheads
wax24 wrote:basesix wrote:wax24 wrote:Shit, ya can toast marshmallows on the hatred.
Speaking of which, i haven’t had a s’more in a long while.
Bucket list item for this summer.Loved the A51 adventure story from the W24 vault btw ; )
gis' a salmon-bay-s'more campfire recipe @wax..Odd response, Base, but i don’t recall too many, if any, coastal s’mores. They’ve all been inland, by memory.
But that can’t be right.
Bucket list item for this summer Rev A: Coastal S’mores.
haha, I wondered if summer s'mores was something you'd do at the creek-mouth, OF COURSE they'd be an inland thing, sorry, we're more a straight-marshmallow country (the majority of the population on the coast), so any s'mores explains (variations,regional preferences, etc) would be informative : )
wax24 wrote:basesix wrote:yvdreh wrote:49 pages????? Go for a surf ya silly billy's.
(your post was 38 days ago @yvdreh .. a little over a page a day since, by my reckoning!)
Shit, ya can toast marshmallows on the hatred.
Speaking of which, i haven’t had a s’more in a long while.
Bucket list item for this summer.
Dunno about toasting marshmallows on the hatred, but reckon you could roast nuts on it.
Deez Nuts. Then Deez Nuts S'more
@soggy. There is no difference between antisemitism and antizionism. That's a cop out. prove me wrong. I'll own it. I genuinely struggle with the differentiation. Show me the difference. then show me how those same standards and principles has been applied to every other country.
sypkan wrote:I like to think it's just as popd says...
however, when too much money and power is amassed... well...
re. the muslim / jew rivalry / hate...
I often wonder how much is based or seeded around the fact jews have been smart with money, finance, and business... enabling disproportionate success...
and conversely, in islam it is actually 'haram' to either make money from interest, and even pay interest... so banking and loans are bad, and there's more focus on a trading culture...
(not that the indo's seem to care with all those bikes and cars on tick...)
I think this is the basis of a lot of resentment, and probably why some places and / or cultures flourish, and others seem quite stagnant...
an other point is, it's generally regarded islamic cultures can be quite backward looking, focussing in the islamic golden age when they dominated influence across the world...
and, western cultures are generally forward looking, with a focus and emphasis on the future, and what is possible...
sorry, probably being terribly racist and antisemetic...
but I believe these to be massive contributing factors... to lots of things...
spot on Syp.
The West, strongly influenced by the Judeo-Christian tradition, is a very dynamic, forward looking and progressive civilisation that believes in progress, development and ability to improve the human condition. In the interests of religious and cultural pluralism and tolerance, Enlightenment humanism, and progress driven by science/reason and open and free debate and argument (not to mention self reflection and self criticism), the West separated religion from the state and relegated religion to just another thing people can believe and practice if they so chose.
It's not inaccurate to say that Islam, India/Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism, China/Confucianism/Taoism, many others, were (and some still are) very static civilisations nearly entirely focused on adhering to their religions and traditions, always looking backwards at their history, until they took onboard the Western progressive dynamic based on science, debate and critical self reflection.
Antisemitism and anti-West sentiment is definitely in large part motivated by jealousy of the success of the West and disproportionate success and wealth of the Jewish people.
This is also a strong dimension of the global left's open antisemitism and anti-West stance, and immediate anti-Israel and pro Hamas stance: Successful, wealthy people and civilisations are the enemy, oppressors and exploiters. They are not successful due to hard work, industriousness, initiative, skill, education, freedom, private free markets, democracy, free speech and debate, adoption of science and humanism as the guide to progress, downplaying of religion, etc, but only due to exploitation, corruption, cronyism, theft, conquest, slavery, geography, luck, etc...
bonza wrote:@soggy. There is no difference between antisemitism and antizionism. That's a cop out. prove me wrong. I'll own it. I genuinely struggle with the differentiation. Show me the difference. then show me how those same standards and principles has been applied to every other country.
How can Jews such as Gabor Mate and Norman Finkelstien be Jewish, haulocaust survivors and anti Israel then?
If you scroll back through Jelly and I have posted numerous links to Jewish academics and orthodox Rabbis denouncing Zionism and the Isreal project. Gabor Mate was a Zionist too. Not any more.
Some hard-hitting journalism on the issue. ;)
what is the Israel project? Is it the existence of the state of Israel? should there not be a Israel? if so why should there be a Australia? a USA? a England? a Iran? was it right how Australia was formed? if not whats the plan for the people? Like I said before there are many here with much better history understanding then me ( i suck) to tell us of how many countries have been conquered, colonised etc (note Israel was not colonised or is not a colony).
what is the difference between antizionism and antisemitism soggy?
Bonza,
There’s heaps of other stuff but I think he gets to the main point pretty quickly in this one.
20 mins sheesh. ok lol. your killing me. can't you see that I am incredibly busy.
Ok i'll take a look tomorrow. if you could however summarise a few dot points that would be appreciated.
Well if you want to really get into it the use of anti semite was a term the Jewish people adopted for themselves but the Semitic languages are Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic (?). So a Semite is someone who speaks one of those languages.
In the modern day context it would be an intolerance of Jewish people, no matter where they may originate or live. I would then suppose being anti Zionist would be intolerance of those that believe in a Jewish state, the same way we differentiate between moderates of any religion and the radical factions who weild religion like a cudgel for their own purposes. Much like the leaders of Hamas are far removed from the Muslims say in the Maldives there would be many Jews, there are many, who don’t associate with Isreal or Zionism.
Believe in a Jewish state is clumsy so I’ll edit to Zionism in its current state which has been internationally recognised as a colonial settler project.
Ok first part of your last last post. The equivocation of colonial nations, ok I get it we as in Australians, most of us, are pretty comfortable and we’re a long established colony 200+.yrs I would say most of the methods of establishment given historical context could be comparable.
It’s here where we get to a moral question. Yes many nations exist as ongoing colonies. But is it right? I think if you have draw a bow as long as a 2500+ Year bibliomaniac. Then I would say your stretching the friendship. Do you think if you could repeat history you may recommend some different policies to some of our politicians knowing the harm inflicted.
It’s pretty crazy there’s generations of young Israeli and international Jewish people who have been heavily radicalised against a race and generations of Arabs who have been radicalised against the other over a land they once shared.
Israel is not a settler colonist project. That is fundamentally false. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/allegation-israel-settler-col...”.
This view is antizionist and I would argue antisemite by default – whether you are a holocaust survivor or not.
“I would then suppose being anti Zionist would be intolerance of those that believe in a Jewish state, the same way we differentiate between moderates of any religion and the radical factions who weild religion like a cudgel for their own purposes”
Are you implying Zionists are religious radical extremist? Zionism represents jewish nationalism and as I understand entails many approaches of which religion is only 1 part of many. It is mostly a secular movement. Even so it is false to label religious Zionists as extremists, comparable to the Islamic jihadists ideology who want to rid the world of jews and install a Islamic global caliphate - bring us all back to the dark ages.
“It’s here where we get to a moral question. Yes many nations exist as ongoing colonies. But is it right? I think if you have draw a bow as long as a 2500+ Year bibliomaniac. Then I would say your stretching the friendship. Do you think if you could repeat history you may recommend some different policies to some of our politicians knowing the harm inflicted”
Despite the doom and gloom – mankind has never been in a better position comparable to previous times. Health, lifespan, technology, education, human rights, comfort etc. Yes there is much suffering and many cases where this is not the case. But generally we are doing much better than ever before. So is it right we exist. Yes It is right. It is not right what happened to those who were trampled and suffered along the way and continue to be so. If we could repeat history with what we know now then yes of course we would change things. But we can’t. Many countries recognise the past and current injustice and attempt to address that. So what would you have us do? Why do you your standards differ to Israel compared to the rest of the world – especially the former and current ACTUAL colonies - countries like Australia.
“Israel is not a settler colonist project. That is fundamentally false.”
Then why do they call people who move to Israel and displace Palestinians from their own homes “Settlers”?
And yes I do see Zionism as a radical extremist faction of Judaism. They’re using a 2500+ year old land claim based on religion to justify a bloody conflict where the goal is to take that land. Pretty radical. Then they as we’ve seen by MWM and what’s happened in the US they’ll ( the Isreal lobby groups) happily destroy the lives of those who speak against them outside of Israel. Speak out in Australia publicly and you’re on the radar. It has crossed my mind posting here.
Again, that’s pretty radical.
Homonym?
Bonza, short stop now as I’m very busy at the moment but do you think Zionism as it has played out increasingly in recent conflicts but perhaps dating back to the ‘67 war could be seen as an extreme expression of Judaism like other forms of misrepresentations of religious belief eg extreme actions taken in the name of Islam or the FFRNJ US Christian movement? I know the premise is in itself radical given the link between Zionism and Israel’s legitimate right to exist and defend itself but certainly from a Palestinian point of view it could make sense. Your perspective would be good, cheers
GuySmiley wrote:Bonza, short stop now as I’m very busy at the moment but do you think Zionism as it has played out increasingly in recent conflicts but perhaps dating back to the ‘67 war could be seen as an extreme expression of Judaism like other forms of misrepresentations of religious belief eg extreme actions taken in the name of Islam or the FFRNJ US Christian movement? I know the premise is in itself radical given the link between Zionism and Israel’s legitimate right to exist and defend itself but certainly from a Palestinian point of view it could make sense. Your perspective would be good, cheers
Yes. When it comes to the groups of settlers illegally displacing Palestinians in the West Bank - that is based on an extreme religious belief imo. It is illegal. It has been enabled by an increasing disfunctional right wing coalition. i would argue that most israelis - many moderate religious jews and secular jews would support the cessation & recompense for those involved.
I would also add that this is a tragedy resulted by the continual rejection of a 2 state solution by the Palestinians and the failure of the international community to continue with the 2 state solution goals. . But....That doesn't make it right.
I'd say 2 things:
1. It is fascinating to observe just how deep Marxist, post-structuralist, "post-colonialism" ideology has penetrated the Western mind and institutions. Fascinating but appalling. It is the central information warfare theme of this ME ordeal.
2. Many people seem to think that "colonialism" is a relatively recent, modern thing mostly practiced by the British empire and West more generally. This is fundamentally ridiculously false.
The truth is there is no such thing as "colonialism" in the sense that Homo Sapiens and ancestors (archaic humans) have moved and settled across the planet, in the process conflicting with each other, for hundreds of thousands of years - for all of human history and prehistory.
If one was to single out, criticise and derogatorily define as "settler colonialism" a particular movement of peoples across the globe, say the Jewish or the British empire, then one needs to do the same for all movements of all peoples across the globe in all periods of history. One will quickly find that everyone is guilty; no peoples are spared the label.
To focus only on Israel or Jewish people is simply pure racism and/or pure anti-West post-structuralist ideology.
Edit: Calling all Israelis "settlers" or Israel a "settler colonial project" is a highly effective information warfare tool and derogatory label to corner and discredit Israel and Jewish people with by Marxist, anti-West ideologues and other antisemites. The problem is the label has penetrated into mainstream usage.
Edit 2: And just look at The Guardian go, relentlessly pushing its extremely biased and selective Marxist, post-colonialism, antisemitic ideology and information war based on carefully selected "anecdotal evidence" and "lived experience".
Remember, in the post-modern, post-truth world, evidence, historical facts, data, statistical analysis - proper scientific evidence and analysis - are now optional if they don’t align with and support one's ideology and agenda. Highly selective anecdotal evidence and lived experience are the new black.
g'day gsco, nice to have you back lately, could you clarify what 'scrambling' your log-in means? surely a quick email to admin asking for a reset would see you able to keep posting as just 'gsco'?
Cheers Bonza its where I also landed reflecting on the conversation between you and soddydog, good stuff
b6 I simply changed my login email and password to something random that I couldn't remember, to prevent me from logging in... At least let me feel all brand new and like a new person after my little van trip, now I'm back at work behind a computer writing Python code...even it I still despise how much the cultural left has penetrated all facets of life and all the coworkers around me...ok time for some DEI training...
Colonialism is when one established country, conquers another taking it over often replacing it's culture, language, religion. like Australia, USA, Canada etc
The Jews were clearly victims of colonialism by Romans and most even forced to flee from the land.
But they are not colonists, their culture, religion, & language was all founded on the land of Israel thousands of years ago and all three aspects are the oldest related to the land still remaining today, and other than the Kingdom of Israel and Judea, the Jews have never had their own country/state prior to the reestablishment of Israel
The Jews returned from many areas of the globe 50% Europe yes, but the other 50% from other middle east countries, Africa, & India
Arabs who call themselves Palestine are not exactly colonists but they have benefited from the colonialism suffered by the Jewish people long ago.
Hello Gents
Not following closely but keep seeing the word Colonialism .
International Trade and the movement of the first Tall Ships was called Mercantilism .
Same with the Bases they established to TRADE !
The Colonial Landing in Australia was only to claim a Continent ,
Think the Dutch , Spanish , Portugal , English , French , Belgium etc etc .
They all went in search of MONEY .
They fought to keep these Trade Routes to themselves .
Just like True Blue showed the Red Sea and Canals to be trade routes .
Gold and Spice's started it .
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