The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
Yep, it's Hamas's fault and Israel has the right to defend itself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-h...
andy-mac wrote:Yep, it's Hamas's fault and Israel has the right to defend itself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-h...
Clear case of a six year old concealing a tunnel underneath her a-12. And the ambulance sent to save her, also found to be concealing a Hamas tunnel underneath it. It was clearly the six year olds fault given she was from Gaza and obviously a supporter of Hamas. So it’s really her own fault and she’s probably responsible for the two bombed paramedics too.
Sorry Andy mac
I focus wrote:In 1938, Ben Gurion described the conflict with the Arabs as "in its essence a political one... politically we are the aggressors and they [the Arabs] defend themselves." Israeli historian Benny Morris, widely regarded as an authority on the Arab-Israeli conflict and the leading authority on origins of the Palestinian refugee problem, affirms Ben Gurion's description, saying: "Ben-Gurion, of course, was right" and goes on to describe Zionism as "a colonizing and expansionist ideology and movement" whose "ideology and practice were necessarily and elementally expansionist." Morris describes the Zionist goal of establishing a Jewish state in Palestine as necessarily displacing and dispossessing the Arab population.[70] The practical issue of establishing a Jewish state in a majority non-Jewish and Arab region was a fundamental issue for the Zionist movement.[70] Revisionist Zionist Ze'ev Jabotinsky described the notion of "transfer" (the Zionist euphemism for ethnic cleansing of the Arab Palestinian population) as a "brutal expulsion" which could resolve this challenge.[71] The idea of transfer was not unique to Revisionist Zionism, in fact, as explained by Morris, "the idea of transferring the Arabs out... was seen as the chief means of assuring the stability of the 'Jewishness' of the proposed Jewish State".[70]
According to Morris, the idea of ethnically cleansing the land of Palestine was to play a large role in Zionist ideology from the inception of the movement. He explains that "transfer" was "inevitable and inbuilt into Zionism" and that a land which was primarily Arab could not be transformed into a Jewish state without displacing the Arab population. Further, the stability of the Jewish state could not be ensured given the Arab population's fear of displacement. He explains that this would be the primary source of conflict between the Zionist movement and the Arab population.
Info and all the other Zionist apologists only need to read the above from ifocus... that sums it up and explains all. Netanyahoo has been waiting for this excuse so that 1. He can escape the political heat he was already under 2. He can fulfil the Zionist ideological aims and 3. He can consolidate his dictatorial warlord status. The guy is a mass murderer... Hamas are freedom fighters who overstepped the boundaries of so-called war rules through their utter frustration and hatred. Either side are abhorrent war-mongers and it's the general population who suffer...as always.
soggydog wrote:Sorry Andy mac
Nothing to be sorry for, you filled in back story.
Gosh - I thought for a horrible few moments , Soggy was being serious and an A-12 was a bomb .
Was horrified but not surprised .
Shit this war stinks !
https://m.
GuySmiley wrote:Hey info, just to clarify your position; in your mind how many citizens deaths in southern Gaza are acceptable to “destroy” Hamas? Come on warlord nail your nuts to the mast, how many? You previously have stated a 2:1 death ratio was acceptable so how many dead Palestinian children, women and men is acceptable??
How many times do you have to say the same dumb arse shit?
Im sure i have answered this before
There is no set figure or ratio.
Whatever the figure or ratio at the end is, that is the number or ratio it is, will it be higher than needed because of the strategy Hamas uses in using its people as human shield's or sponges, with much of the aim to get support from people like you at least support to stop the war (one they wanted) Yes 100%, of course.
People like you would have been saying the same thing in getting rid of the Nazi's and Hitler and if up you you both would have been allowed to survive.
BTW. The figures of dead or ratio are actually unknown and most likely heavily inflated by both Hamas health department but also IDF, both have an interest in inflating the figures.
And even if we were going to believe the ratio, its not an unusual war time ratio especially considering the high population density and urban warfare, and If the IDF had conducted the war in the north with the population still there it would be far far higher, or if they actually wanted genocide and target gazzans it would be far far higher, well if their aim was actually genocide there would nobody left by now.
BTW. the other repeated line, hamas weren't created in a vacum BS, hamas came from the Muslim brotherhood, even if there was no Israel there would be many Islamic Jihadist groups throughout the middle east, its ignorant to think otherwise.
And if there no Israel or jews they would just be targeting the opposite muslim group be it shiite or sunni, its what they do, or even if Israel and the Jews had somehow survived and never left the land so no need ti return it would still be the same these muslim groups or countries would still be trying to get rid of them, that what Islam does.
@Roadkill @gsco mkII @bonza @Greenroom @Pop Down @sypkan @Optimist @Rabbits68 @flollo @velocityjohnno @ anyone open minded and interested to learn more.
This is new and a must watch/listen one of the best interviews/run downs, covers a whole heap of aspects a very easy listen but very informative, and from somebody with a proper educated view point, Malcolm Nance, global counter-terrorism expert, former U.S. intelligence officer.
00:00 - Introduction
02:14 - Oct. 7th intelligence failure
05:55 - Strategic goal of Hamas
07:22 - Hamas arrogance
10:15 - Full-scale war in Gaza
14:09 - American support for Israel
18:09 - Russia and the war in Gaza
20:48 - Political gridlock in the U.S.
23:15 - How to rescue the hostages
26:06 - Iranian support for Hamas
28:32 - Hamas and Islamist terrorism
31:52 - Fighting against an ideology
34:44 - Hamas expansion in West Bank?
36:08 - Israel and the Arab Peninsula
38:28 - US vs the Houthis
What’s the figure of dead Palestinians you’re good with info before you start to question the validity of the IDFs genocidal tactics?
Come on soft cock you’ve been on here for weeks defending the IDFs aim of destroying Hamas no matter the price in human suffering so what is it?
What is your price?
The answer doesn't change no matter how many times you ask it, there is no magic set figure or ratio, the IDF aim for the lowest civilian death toll possible(Hamas the opposite) and IDF aim for lowest IDF death toll possible, but whatever both are at the end, it is what it is.
There is definitely no cut off figure where Israel goes oh, we just hit this figure we have to stop now and now we will just let Hamas survive and attack us again.
The good news is as the war goes on air strike's which are the main way civilians die, become less and less.
indo-dreaming wrote:The answer doesn't change no matter how many times you ask it, there is no magic set figure or ratio, the IDF aim for the lowest civilian death toll possible(Hamas the opposite) and IDF aim for lowest IDF death toll possible, but whatever both are at the end, it is what it is.
There is definitely no cut off figure where Israel goes oh, we just hit this figure we have to stop now and now we will just let Hamas survive and attack us again.
The good news is as the war goes on air strike's which are the main way civilians die, become less and less.
He says as they airstrike Rafah... "go south you'll be safe there "
InfoNightmare - The Master of Wilful Ignorance
Your price info?
That is YOUR PRICE before you start to question your personal morality ?
;)
https://m.
https://m.
Interesting stuff by Alexander Downer in the AFR:
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/one-nation-pales-in-comparison-with...
One Nation pales in comparison with vicious and evil Greens
Never has a political party so racist, confrontational and divisive been elected to the Australian parliament.
Alexander Downer
I’m old enough to remember the campaign whipped up by the political left to pressure all political candidates and their parties to put One Nation last on their how-to-vote cards. It was argued that One Nation MP Pauline Hanson was a moral abomination because, in her maiden speech to parliament she had complained that there was too much Asian immigration. This came some months after she had been disendorsed as a Liberal candidate for attacking what she saw as discriminatory benefits given to Indigenous people.
Personally, I didn’t like Hanson’s comments and as the foreign minister I had to deal with the spillover of this issue in the regional English language media. But to put One Nation in perspective, they held just one seat in the House of Representatives and none in the Senate, and exercised no influence over government policies. By the time of the next election in 1998, their most potent issue wasn’t immigration or Indigenous affairs, it was their opposition to the Howard government’s gun laws.
I mention this because whatever you might have thought of the conspiracy theorists and misfits who made up One Nation – and no, I never voted for Mark Latham! – they were and are nowhere as vicious and evil as the Australian Greens. Never has a political party so racist, confrontational and divisive been elected to the Australian parliament.
I used to think the Greens were little more than well-meaning, albeit slightly whacky environmentalists. But as an MP, I noticed something ominous about them. Unlike the activists of other parties, they were intensely aggressive and intolerant. They were ideologues who tolerated no dissent.
Over the past four months, the Greens have been in full view. Any doubts about their evil ideology have been cast aside. This is a party driven by critical theory. They split society into two. You’re either an oppressor or you’re a victim. The lives and human rights of what they perceive as the oppressor class are non-existent. The only people who matter are the so-called oppressed. This absurd derivation of Marxism defines all of us by race, gender and sexual preference.
And among those the Greens see as oppressors are the Jews. Never in my adult life have I come across antisemitism in a major Australian political party – although it is rampant on the left of the British Labour Party. Our greatest general was Jewish, our first Australian-born governor-general was Jewish, and some of our greatest scientists, lawyers, doctors and businessmen have been Jewish. Surely most Australians deeply admire the contribution Jews have made to our country.
Not the Greens. It is the only party that has refused to accede to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism. Why wouldn’t it? Why wouldn’t any decent-minded person be opposed to antisemitism? Well, for the ideologically driven Greens, Jews fall into the category of oppressors.
The surest way to lose votes to the Greens is to appease them and legitimise them.
Ever since Hamas, which is committed to killing Jews and eliminating Israel, attacked and slaughtered Israelis on October 7, the Greens have been demonising the Israelis. Any Australian with a passing familiarity with the issue would know what Hamas – an extension of the extremist Islamist organisation Muslim Brotherhood – is about. These aren’t people fighting for a two-state solution. They want the Jews eliminated. The Greens know this but have still gone out of their way to support Hamas.
It’s one thing to encourage the Israelis to keep collateral civilian casualties to a minimum; it’s another to criticise and condemn them for fighting for their very survival and the survival of the Jewish people. Yet, that is what the Greens have done.
The Greens support boycotts of Israeli corporations and institutions. They don’t support boycotts of Palestinians despite the horrific acts of October 7, nor Syrian entities despite the hundreds of thousands killed by Bashar al-Assad’s regime.
Just the Israelis? But then, one-time Greens candidate Julian Burnside likened Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians to Nazi Germany, and only a few weeks ago, a Greens NSW state MP, Jenny Leong, spoke of how Jewish “tentacles reach into the areas that try and influence power”.
What the Greens have done is give legitimacy to antisemitism. They have seats in both houses of the federal parliament and their votes count in the Senate. Political parties can govern licence to evil prejudice and the Greens have given licence to antisemitism. The egregious collection of lists of Jewish cultural performances and artists, and the attacks on and threats to Jewish businesses and schools, may not be advocated directly by the Greens, but they have created an atmosphere where some extremists think this is acceptable behaviour.
‘Occupied territory’
It is the same case with the demonstrations against Israel. Many Greens take part in those demonstrations, which advocate the elimination of the state of Israel. After all, for many Greens, Israel is “occupied territory”. The Greens stand side by side with demonstrators calling for the elimination of a Jewish state between “the river and the sea”.
Ultimately, what emerges is that the Greens seem relatively indifferent to the massacre of people in other parts of the Middle East, in Africa, and in parts of Asia, but are solely focused on the war between Hamas and Israel. And they are deeply partisan in their attitude to that war.
It’s more than a year until the next federal election but meanwhile, the two major political parties – and the minor ones as well – need to ensure that they put the Greens last in every electorate. There is no place in our parliament for ideological antisemites, and the 2025 election will be an opportunity to wipe out such politicians.
I know the Labor Party worries about losing seats to the Greens. Well, let me give them some unwelcome advice. The surest way to lose votes to the Greens is to appease them and legitimise them. Best to call them out for what they are – extremist ideologues who embrace antisemitism. Don’t treat them as allies, or you will be tarred with their hideous ideology.
The Labor Party had claimed the Liberals would be morally compromised if it did not put One Nation last on its how-to-vote cards. Let’s apply the same standard to the Greens. Labor will be deeply morally comprised unless it puts the Greens last on its how-to-vote cards.
Alexander Downer was Australia's longest serving foreign minister, from 1996 to 2007, and most recently Australian High Commissioner to the UK.
indo-dreaming wrote:The answer doesn't change no matter how many times you ask it, there is no magic set figure or ratio, the IDF aim for the lowest civilian death toll possible(Hamas the opposite) and IDF aim for lowest IDF death toll possible, but whatever both are at the end, it is what it is.
There is definitely no cut off figure where Israel goes oh, we just hit this figure we have to stop now and now we will just let Hamas survive and attack us again.
The good news is as the war goes on air strike's which are the main way civilians die, become less and less.
The Global Bullshit Identification Council have revised their earlier estimates, of 3m, and have now stated, that 4m is a safer, and more sufferable distance to view these posts.
Apologies for the mis0information folks.
So basically what they're saying, is it's safer to be out the door, than responding to this ding dong head.
Good on Shaun Thomson
Winston wiser than the Jelly Guy...
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
.......Winston Churchill.
… haha ;)
Oh my lawwwwwwd
https://m.
&pp=ygUQam9lIGNhcHBhIG9oIGdvZA%3D%3D … ‘ Won’t you look down upon me Jesus
you’ve got to help me make a stand
You’ve just got to see me through another day
My body’s aching and my time is at hand
And I won’t make it any other way ‘
;);)
https://m.
gsco mkII wrote:Alexander Downer was Australia's longest serving foreign minister, from 1996 to 2007, and most recently Australian High Commissioner to the UK.
Alexander Downer is an Adelaide Hills private-school-prig who cried when Australia changed to decimal currency, 'çause he thought it made his stamps look old-fashioned.
Oh sick we're justifying war crimes now? Stay classy swellnet.
basesix wrote:gsco mkII wrote:Alexander Downer was Australia's longest serving foreign minister, from 1996 to 2007, and most recently Australian High Commissioner to the UK.
Alexander Downer is an Adelaide Hills private-school-prig who cried when Australia changed to decimal currency, 'çause he thought it made his stamps look old-fashioned.
Also sooooo pissed off when his daughter wasn’t elected to federal parliament twice declaring that she came of a family of nation builders, what a ponce
Optimist wrote:Winston wiser than the Jelly Guy...
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
.......Winston Churchill.
How many wives and concubines did king soloman have ? Was it really 300 wives and 700 concubines ? Bit of a sex addict don’t you think ?
gsco mkII wrote:Interesting stuff by Alexander Downer in the AFR:
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/one-nation-pales-in-comparison-with...
One Nation pales in comparison with vicious and evil Greens
Never has a political party so racist, confrontational and divisive been elected to the Australian parliament.
Alexander Downer
I’m old enough to remember the campaign whipped up by the political left to pressure all political candidates and their parties to put One Nation last on their how-to-vote cards. It was argued that One Nation MP Pauline Hanson was a moral abomination because, in her maiden speech to parliament she had complained that there was too much Asian immigration. This came some months after she had been disendorsed as a Liberal candidate for attacking what she saw as discriminatory benefits given to Indigenous people.
Personally, I didn’t like Hanson’s comments and as the foreign minister I had to deal with the spillover of this issue in the regional English language media. But to put One Nation in perspective, they held just one seat in the House of Representatives and none in the Senate, and exercised no influence over government policies. By the time of the next election in 1998, their most potent issue wasn’t immigration or Indigenous affairs, it was their opposition to the Howard government’s gun laws.
I mention this because whatever you might have thought of the conspiracy theorists and misfits who made up One Nation – and no, I never voted for Mark Latham! – they were and are nowhere as vicious and evil as the Australian Greens. Never has a political party so racist, confrontational and divisive been elected to the Australian parliament.
I used to think the Greens were little more than well-meaning, albeit slightly whacky environmentalists. But as an MP, I noticed something ominous about them. Unlike the activists of other parties, they were intensely aggressive and intolerant. They were ideologues who tolerated no dissent.
Over the past four months, the Greens have been in full view. Any doubts about their evil ideology have been cast aside. This is a party driven by critical theory. They split society into two. You’re either an oppressor or you’re a victim. The lives and human rights of what they perceive as the oppressor class are non-existent. The only people who matter are the so-called oppressed. This absurd derivation of Marxism defines all of us by race, gender and sexual preference.
And among those the Greens see as oppressors are the Jews. Never in my adult life have I come across antisemitism in a major Australian political party – although it is rampant on the left of the British Labour Party. Our greatest general was Jewish, our first Australian-born governor-general was Jewish, and some of our greatest scientists, lawyers, doctors and businessmen have been Jewish. Surely most Australians deeply admire the contribution Jews have made to our country.
Not the Greens. It is the only party that has refused to accede to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism. Why wouldn’t it? Why wouldn’t any decent-minded person be opposed to antisemitism? Well, for the ideologically driven Greens, Jews fall into the category of oppressors.
The surest way to lose votes to the Greens is to appease them and legitimise them.
Ever since Hamas, which is committed to killing Jews and eliminating Israel, attacked and slaughtered Israelis on October 7, the Greens have been demonising the Israelis. Any Australian with a passing familiarity with the issue would know what Hamas – an extension of the extremist Islamist organisation Muslim Brotherhood – is about. These aren’t people fighting for a two-state solution. They want the Jews eliminated. The Greens know this but have still gone out of their way to support Hamas.
It’s one thing to encourage the Israelis to keep collateral civilian casualties to a minimum; it’s another to criticise and condemn them for fighting for their very survival and the survival of the Jewish people. Yet, that is what the Greens have done.
The Greens support boycotts of Israeli corporations and institutions. They don’t support boycotts of Palestinians despite the horrific acts of October 7, nor Syrian entities despite the hundreds of thousands killed by Bashar al-Assad’s regime.
Just the Israelis? But then, one-time Greens candidate Julian Burnside likened Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians to Nazi Germany, and only a few weeks ago, a Greens NSW state MP, Jenny Leong, spoke of how Jewish “tentacles reach into the areas that try and influence power”.
What the Greens have done is give legitimacy to antisemitism. They have seats in both houses of the federal parliament and their votes count in the Senate. Political parties can govern licence to evil prejudice and the Greens have given licence to antisemitism. The egregious collection of lists of Jewish cultural performances and artists, and the attacks on and threats to Jewish businesses and schools, may not be advocated directly by the Greens, but they have created an atmosphere where some extremists think this is acceptable behaviour.
‘Occupied territory’
It is the same case with the demonstrations against Israel. Many Greens take part in those demonstrations, which advocate the elimination of the state of Israel. After all, for many Greens, Israel is “occupied territory”. The Greens stand side by side with demonstrators calling for the elimination of a Jewish state between “the river and the sea”.Ultimately, what emerges is that the Greens seem relatively indifferent to the massacre of people in other parts of the Middle East, in Africa, and in parts of Asia, but are solely focused on the war between Hamas and Israel. And they are deeply partisan in their attitude to that war.
It’s more than a year until the next federal election but meanwhile, the two major political parties – and the minor ones as well – need to ensure that they put the Greens last in every electorate. There is no place in our parliament for ideological antisemites, and the 2025 election will be an opportunity to wipe out such politicians.
I know the Labor Party worries about losing seats to the Greens. Well, let me give them some unwelcome advice. The surest way to lose votes to the Greens is to appease them and legitimise them. Best to call them out for what they are – extremist ideologues who embrace antisemitism. Don’t treat them as allies, or you will be tarred with their hideous ideology.
The Labor Party had claimed the Liberals would be morally compromised if it did not put One Nation last on its how-to-vote cards. Let’s apply the same standard to the Greens. Labor will be deeply morally comprised unless it puts the Greens last on its how-to-vote cards.
Alexander Downer was Australia's longest serving foreign minister, from 1996 to 2007, and most recently Australian High Commissioner to the UK.
Is costco for real? Or just baiting?
This rant comes from a psychologically damaged individual.
^^^ haha he’s awright ;)
- and bout as balanced as this fella
https://m.
;);)
https://m.
Ghassan Hage. Academic.
Statement Regarding my sacking from the Max Planck Institute of Social Anthropology (February 9 2024)
On Wednesday 31st of January morning I woke up to an email from the right-wing newspaper Welt am Sonntag. They declared me to be ‘an activist for the BDS boycott movement for years’ which has never been the case. I take my job as an academic too seriously to have time to be an activist.
I was informed that the newspaper’s so-called ‘research team’ that ‘since the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7th, we have noticed that you have been making increasingly drastic statements towards the State of Israel’… It didn’t seem to occur to them that maybe this was because Israel was engaging in an on-going mass murder of Palestinians.
They had selected a few of my social media posts and wanted to know if I could understand if ‘critics classify your statements as antisemitic?’ I did not reply to this email. In my experience, the questions were a prelude to a fascistic ideological assassination job which was going to happen regardless of whether one says or does not say something.
Indeed, the article did happen. In it I was portrayed in conspiratorial terms as the henchman of some kind of BDS group. My job is to infiltrate academia. I had finished doing my job in Australia and was now set on infiltrating Germany.
But before the article was published, I sent the above email to the Directors of MPI (Max Planck Institute of Social Anthropology in Halle) on the same morning I saw it. I was informed that a similar query was sent not only to them but also to the President of the Max Planck Society in Munich. I was also informed that the President has sent the email to the society’s lawyers. No one in Munich, lawyer or otherwise, contacted me or sought my opinion about the above. The next day, on Thursday morning, the directors of MPI informed me that there was a central decision requiring that MPI sever its relationship with me. The decision was based on the way antisemitism has come to be defined and institutionalised in Germany which has been analysed and critiqued by many.
For anyone who knows the German landscape at the moment, there is nothing surprising about this happening to me. Many people other than me have copped a variation on this same treatment. It does not make it less infuriating.
Needless to say, I stand by everything I say in my social media. I have a political ideal that I have always struggled for regarding Israel/Palestine. It is the ideal of a multi-religious society made from Christians, Muslims and Jews living together on that land. My academic writings on that matter, and they are considerable, attests to the way I have always struggled for this ideal. I have criticised both Israelis and Palestinians who work against such a goal. If Israel has copped and continues to cop the biggest criticism it is because its colonial ethno-nationalist project is by far the biggest obstacle towards achieving such aim. This is also true of my social media posts. My declarations of these ideals is there in my social media. My critique of Palestinians who work against such an ideal is there in my social media. And so is my critique of Israel's ethno-nationalism. If some right-wing journalists who dislike my politics decide to pick from all what I have written my critiques of Israel and accuse me of antisemitism, I expect my employer to know or at least to investigate my record and defend me against such accusations. Believing in a multi-religious society and critiquing those who work against it is not antisemitism. I will not accept to be put in a defensive position where I have to justify myself for holding and working for such ideals.
As importantly, I have more than 35 years of writing and teaching behind me, I have taught whole courses and parts of courses on Middle East anthropology throughout the world, to students with all kind of political persuasions: Never, EVER, have I had a student or an employer come to me and tell me that anything about my teaching has offended them or hurt them. On the contrary, the list of those who praise me and my work for making them think harder despite disagreeing with me is very long.
This is why, when the Max Planck President’s Office treated me as a liability that needs to be managed, and proposed that I go silently with a non-disclosure agreement, I refused and asked to be unilaterally sacked. I felt it was important that they produce a document where they state why they have chosen to sack me. (this is yet to be sent to me btw)
Two months into the Israeli bombardment of Gaza and its killing of thousands of Palestinians, my colleague Livnat Konopny-Decleve, from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, invited me to participate in an EASA (European Association of Social Anthropology)-organised debate on Violence and Postcolonialism. The thought came to me that if anthropologists have anything specific to add to the scholarly analysis of political violence, it probably had to do with trying to show that political violence is not something that is the same everywhere: there are different cultures of violence. Looking at a photo of naked Palestinian prisoners being led by Israeli soldiers in the ruins of Gaza, I began thinking about the relation between violence and humiliation. As I often do when I am writing, I posted the idea I had on Facebook:
The Israelis like to say that what they are doing in Gaza is like what the allies did in Dresden. But this is not true. The allies never tried to humiliate the people of Dresden. Israeli violence resembles far more Nazi antisemitic violence in this regard in its destructive power and desire to humiliate. It also resembles Nazi violence by its vulgarity.
I am taking my time contextualising this Facebook post as it is one of the posts that were deemed by the lawyers of the Max Planck Society to put me in contravention of the law in Germany: it is apparently antisemitic to engage in a comparison between Israel and Nazis. That is what I was told anyway. As far as I understand, this is, in a nutshell, what has put me at odds with Max Planck Society’s lawyers. What to me is a fair, intellectual critique of Israel, for them is ‘antisemitism according to the law in Germany’.
This is why, if Max Planck Society’s president limited himself to saying something like the above, I could have lived with it. I might not like the way the critique of Israel is conflated with antisemitism, and I find the German’s pseudo philosemitism self-serving, and at times racist, instrumentalised to racialize the Palestinian and more generally the Arab and Muslim community in Germany. But as a visitor there is a limit to the extent to which I feel entitled to critique this.
I cannot describe how saddened I am by this. I felt I was participating in and achieving some great things with some wonderful people at MPI. The fact that this intellectual world I was part of can be destroyed so easily and that the managers of academic institutions run scared and let it happen rather than defend the vitality of the academic space under their management is a real tragedy.
Hage Ba'a at 10:45 PM
Hey costco... yr the great academic...here ya go... (Downer LOLOLOL)
https://m.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel using an article by the likes of downer . https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/the-story-of-t.... In 2007, following the Howard Government’s loss at the 2006 election, Alexander Downer obtained a highly paid consultancy with Woodside Petroleum, the company responsible for exploiting the oil and gas reserves in the Timor Sea. This prompted Witness K, who had been part of the ASIS team engaged in bugging the Timor government’s offices, to complain to the Inspector-General of Intelligence about the legality of the operation. The Inspector-General agreed that Witness K’s evidence could be disclosed in any related legal proceedings. After that, information as to the Cabinet surveillance operation made its way progressively into the Australian and Timorese media.
Jelly Flater wrote:^^^ haha he’s awright ;)
- and bout as balanced as this fella
Ah Jelly... he was a classic! That St Ignatius college has got some explaining to do!!
Always the OnionMan... but gladly forgotten
I can’t stand downer either as per supa comments. I also voted greens 1 for most of my voting life. Maybe forget who wrote the article and judge the content. He’s right.
They made lists of Jews in a previous time too.
https://plus61j.net.au/death-threats-boycotts-target-jewish-creatives/
Jenny sorry but not sorry
Many know I am an outspoken advocate for justice, for human rights, for equality and for anti-racism.
— Jenny Leong MP 梁珍妮 (@jennyleong) February 8, 2024
I know that words I say hold power and have an impact and come with responsibility.
Read my full statement below. pic.twitter.com/usbi8Wpm7T
Malcom Nance spoke clearly in that podcast @indo. Surmised the terrorists socialist transition to islamists succinctly. I really don’t know how a 2 state solution will occur given October 7 as much as most of us would like to see it. Well not Gassan…
It won’t happen in our life time. But i have no doubt that Israel will cease to exist as a Jewish state. It will cease to exist by dissolving back into what it was as Palestine: a multi-religious space where people work on coexisting with each other with all its ups and downs. Or
— Ghassan Hage (@anthroprofhage) December 30, 2023
@GuySmiley asks "Your price info?
That is YOUR PRICE before you start to question your personal morality ?"
You are barking up the wrong tree there Guy.
That's not a question he understands. It is not possible for him to answer it.
You see narcissistic sociopaths are incapable of empathy. This "subject" for him is an exercise in trying to prove something to himself. That he is not dumb like people(including himself deep down) think. He has grown past that and is now a "conservative" because that's what he believes mature and successful people become in life.
The suffering of others has no impact on him, he feels nothing.
For example, a sentence like this just rolls out without concern "The good news is as the war goes on air strike's which are the main way civilians die, become less and less."
He thinks that is "good news", that less innocent people are dying because "the war goes on".
Death, bombing babies and children, mothers, elderly, in their homes, buried under rubble can become "good news". in the mind of the narcissistic sociopath. Similarly the idea that the IDF are righteous and try to "minimise" such suffering in spite of overwhelming evidence daily to the contrary.
If he questions this last point and repeats his lie again, I have about thirty pages worth of video and news report evidence to the contrary that I might just take some time out of my day to post in response, we'll see.
But you need not bother asking "how many". He simply doesn't care about the suffering, it's a void in his soul. He only cares about his own self, it's a kind of coping mechanism to deal with his actual self doubt and weaknesses he is scared to admit to. They teach Psych courses on this kind of individual.
The actual good news is that he confines his acting out to the keyboard and these pages it seems and not in the real world like many others with this affliction do, one would hope anyway.
As for gsco number two thinking Alexander Downer is worth quoting on anything, well fuck me dead, it's all starting to make more sense as far as he's concerned also.
Anyway, reminded me of this classic Keating moment...
Now say what you will about Paul Keating but he had them rattled. That look on Downer’s face at the end says it all.#auspol pic.twitter.com/I7KEequA50
— The Sage (@SarkySage) November 10, 2021
adam12 wrote:@GuySmiley asks "Your price info?
That is YOUR PRICE before you start to question your personal morality ?"You are barking up the wrong tree there Guy.
That's not a question he understands. It is not possible for him to answer it.
You see narcissistic sociopaths are incapable of empathy. This "subject" for him is an exercise in trying to prove something to himself. That he is not dumb like people(including himself deep down) think. He has grown past that and is now a "conservative" because that's what he believes mature and successful people become in life.
The suffering of others has no impact on him, he feels nothing.
For example, a sentence like this just rolls out without concern "The good news is as the war goes on air strike's which are the main way civilians die, become less and less."
He thinks that is "good news", that less innocent people are dying because "the war goes on".
Death, bombing babies and children, mothers, elderly, in their homes, buried under rubble can become "good news". in the mind of the narcissistic sociopath. Similarly the idea that the IDF are righteous and try to "minimise" such suffering in spite of overwhelming evidence daily to the contrary.
If he questions this last point and repeats his lie again, I have about thirty pages worth of video and news report evidence to the contrary that I might just take some time out of my day to post in response, we'll see.
But you need not bother asking "how many". He simply doesn't care about the suffering, it's a void in his soul. He only cares about his own self, it's a kind of coping mechanism to deal with his actual self doubt and weaknesses he is scared to admit to. They teach Psych courses on this kind of individual.
The actual good news is that he confines his acting out to the keyboard and these pages it seems and not in the real world like many others with this affliction do, one would hope anyway.
As for gsco number two thinking Alexander Downer is worth quoting on anything, well fuck me dead, it's all starting to make more sense as far as he's concerned also.
Anyway, reminded me of this classic Keating moment...
https://twitter.com/SarkySage/status/1458353100427694080
You live in a false empathy economy.
You have two choices.
1. Get rid of Hamas with some deaths now* and a chance of a better future for both Israeli's and Gazzan's
2. End the war now and all the deaths and destruction be a complete waste and ensure an ongoing cycle of war and suffering.
*Much more deaths than needed and a much longer war than needed due to Hamas human shield strategy.
BTW. What was/is this magic figure for you and Guy that you say stop the war too many civilians have died???
And if you had such a figure, havent you just rewarded and incentivised Hamas for using civilian as human shields??
bonza wrote:I can’t stand downer either as per supa comments. I also voted greens 1 for most of my voting life. Maybe forget who wrote the article and judge the content. He’s right.
They made lists of Jews in a previous time too.
https://plus61j.net.au/death-threats-boycotts-target-jewish-creatives/
Jenny sorry but not sorry
https://twitter.com/jennyleong/status/1755421576038928584Malcom Nance spoke clearly in that podcast @indo. Surmised the terrorists socialist transition to islamists succinctly. I really don’t know how a 2 state solution will occur given October 7 as much as most of us would like to see it. Well not Gassan…
https://twitter.com/anthroprofhage/status/1741210566725697868
How crazy is that second twitter post, Israel currently is one of the most multicultural, multi religious countries in the middle east and the most democratic with the highest level of human rights especially for women and LGTBTQI community.
If it every ceases to exist, it will just become another Arab/Muslim country, Jews will be totally gone, many christians too, even many atheist would move out as would LGTQI community as none of these groups would have basic human rights anymore.
All the things the Greens are suppose to support these people are like chickens rallying for the building of more KFC stores.
Chickens rallying for more KFC stores….Ha Ha….very good…very very good.
Israel is full of white colonisers didn’t you know (@israelsowhite on ig) pic.twitter.com/IMa9YOy5DM
— Eve Barlow (@Eve_Barlow) February 7, 2024
Gday Bonza is it the case, as perhaps highlighted in the video ^^^ that Jewish people from around the world have a right to move to and permanently settle in Israel ?
And if so is this part of the problem in places like the (illegally) occupied West Bank?
Gday Adam12 lil buddy clearly has a cognitive deficit, been obvious for years now
Personally attack Downer all you want, but he's right. This ME episode has brought out the Greens' true colours and exposed them for what they are. They have successfully left themselves with no place in a modern, developed, multicultural, pluralistic and tolerant Western liberal democracy.
GuySmiley wrote:Gday Bonza is it the case, as perhaps highlighted in the video ^^^ that Jewish people from around the world have a right to move to and permanently settle in Israel ?
And if so is this part of the problem in places like the (illegally) occupied West Bank?
Hi Guy - the vid was just a light hearted dig at the coloniser oppressed / oppressor baloney. I'm not a ME or israeli guru, historian, or military strategist - think that's obvious. Law of return supports the Zionist vision of a jewish state - to provide a place of refuge for the Jewish diaspora, persecuted across the globe and throughout the ages. This rule of migration supports that. Does the former support the later - possibly, probably in some cases - to what extend i don't know. I have also read that the law might help suppress religionist zealots due to the legislative design that allows for and or encourages secular jew migration? Like I said - i'ts over my head - I'd say you know more than me. Its as complex as the rest of the situation - I would guess however that if there was an appetite to repeal some of its function prior to October 7 due to your concerns, its probably being replaced with renewed energy to maintain given the way so many, have responded to Oct 7 with jew hate across many democratic countries including ours - shout out to clem ford.
“ … I would guess however that if there was an appetite to repeal some of its function prior to October 7 due to your concerns, its probably being replaced with renewed energy to maintain given the way so many, have responded to Oct 7 …”
I’m inclined to believe this but the political animal in me thinks that this would be welcomed by the far far right rump of the current Israeli government ….. you know like fridge magnets and be alert and alarmed sort of bullshit
"End the war now and all the deaths and destruction be a complete waste and ensure an ongoing cycle of war and suffering."
"A complete waste"... the mindset of a maniac
gsco mkII wrote:Personally attack Downer all you want, but he's right. This ME episode has brought out the Greens' true colours and exposed them for what they are. They have successfully left themselves with no place in a modern, developed, multicultural, pluralistic and tolerant Western liberal democracy.
The greens have been dead to me since they failed to support Rudds ETS, full of piss and wind is the best way to describe them
Rabbits68 wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-12/gaza-children-most-dangerous-plac...
""Which raises an obvious question: why could Israel not have carried out "surgical strikes" against Hamas's leadership in Gaza?""
Yes why indeed.
andy-mac wrote:Rabbits68 wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-12/gaza-children-most-dangerous-plac...
""Which raises an obvious question: why could Israel not have carried out "surgical strikes" against Hamas's leadership in Gaza?""
Yes why indeed.
"....a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes. Thousands more are missing under rubble.
One of every 10 children killed in Gaza did not make their first birthday. More than 1,000 children have lost one or both legs. Save the Children estimates that more than 10 children a day are losing one or both legs — those having limbs amputated are having it done without anaesthetic."
Farken hell.
southernraw wrote:andy-mac wrote:Rabbits68 wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-12/gaza-children-most-dangerous-plac...
""Which raises an obvious question: why could Israel not have carried out "surgical strikes" against Hamas's leadership in Gaza?""
Yes why indeed.
"....a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes. Thousands more are missing under rubble.
One of every 10 children killed in Gaza did not make their first birthday. More than 1,000 children have lost one or both legs. Save the Children estimates that more than 10 children a day are losing one or both legs — those having limbs amputated are having it done without anaesthetic."
Farken hell.
Those figures are pretty sad.
Depending on where those figures came from, I wouldn’t trust them fully. However, I have no doubt the figures are very very high.
None of those kids deserved those deaths or loss of limbs and none deserve the pain inflicted.
andy-mac wrote:Rabbits68 wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-12/gaza-children-most-dangerous-plac...
""Which raises an obvious question: why could Israel not have carried out "surgical strikes" against Hamas's leadership in Gaza?""
Yes why indeed.
They have been trying for years....why do you think they are suddenly magically going to get more information on exact locations by sitting back in Israel???
They have far far far more chance of taking out leadership going into Gaza, not only do they limit the places they can hide and get them on the run, they are much more likely to get tip off's and information from hamas fighters they capture.
For example in the last few days IDF found one of the main computer servers of Hamas right under the UNRWA's Gaza headquarter's, they only found it though due to information from interrogating a Hamas member, and you can imagine the information they will get off these computers could help lead to leaders captured.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-had-command-tunnel-under...
But why do you think once the top leadership is dead that the next level of leadership is not just going to take over?
Do you honestly think just because top leaders are gone that's it?
Come on mate you are smarter than that.
Sure taking out leaders at all levels is important to weakening Hamas, but if you leave all the military infrastructure in place you still leave Hamas military capacity in place.
You cant take out just one aspect like leaders, you need to weaken or ideally take out as many aspects as possible, leaders, fighters, and every single aspect of military capacity, from command centres, rocket stores, rocket making facilties, launching sites, major tunnels they move rockets around in or use to stay underground for long periods etc
FFS its Hamas's objective to kill as many of its own citizens as possible. Build military operations in civilian areas, do october 7, sit back hiding behind their citizens high-fiving each other when Israel responds as they predict. Barbaric terrorists. Every child's death is on Hamas.
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