Vaccinate or not

Sypkan, I don't sit on these threads all day, I have work to do so just browse in and out. Missed your post obviously.

a follow up article, that also displays some incredible research, in this age of regurgitated tripe...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-lea...

(from a big girly fashion mag no less!)

Also I don't just take the mainstream news as gospel, only use ABC these days for regular updates FWIW, but when coming across an interesting story, dig deeper into the backstory and facts etc.

as I said, not a shot at you, moreso contemporary media, which is an absolute mess... noting that even the abc have turned a blind eye to this... (which is disgraceful from my perspective)

and with san guine in the industry so to speak, it beggars belief, that he hasn't been exposed to such developments...

again, it's the system that is failing, rather than any personal shortcomings

Roger.

Sypkan,
I may be in the 'industry', but I had no personal interest (nor is it routinely discussed by my colleagues) in the virus origin, and thus reserved my judgement.
Good on you for being so righteous.

@supafreak I meant the only option we’re being given (covid treatments don’t see to even be part of the conversation in aus) to get out of this virus mess.

@shortenism following on, everyone needs to get vaccinated ASAP so we can get out of this mess, regardless of how inept our response has been and whether there even is a real and valid virus threat.

Do you have another solution?

Everyone needs to get vaccinated, the lockdowns need to stop, we need to open back up to and participate in the rest of the world, life needs to go back to normal, and the whole virus threat mania needs to be dropped by the media and govt, with no mention ever made of it again, and written off as most likely a huge overreaction, beat-up, commercialisation and politicisation, largely by a rampant, hysterical and out of control, insane, unbridled and hyper-sensationalist media. Then the media needs to be switched off, its role in society rethought, and after that it can be started again but this time in a sane manner that actually has some kind of positive benefit to society.

(@blowin I’m not a financial planner, but in passing that’s another industry that’s been decimated by political incompetence, from both sides of politics.)

really wasn't a shot at you san guine...

and really was a shot at the contemporary media landscape...

"(nor is it routinely discussed by my colleagues)"

...dare say it would be if the media were doing their job...

especially the likes of the abc, considering they like to think they are the serious 'jounalists', as opposed to the trash at channel 7 etc...

not about being righteous mate, it's about having an open mind, and reading a range of sources. I've said it many times, nothing is certain yet, but looking at that CNN link... and what they guy formerly from the inner circle is saying...

a whole heap of people are about to have their media mislead bubbled up righteousness shattered...

again..

You are dazed and confused gsco and who can blame you.

It is baffling (frightening) that on the one hand ppl are expressing major concerns about the government and media's integrity on a range of issues but on the other are out there voluntarily lining up for an injection with no idea really about what's in it or why they are doing it, what the benefit is or what the long term effects are. All because the same group who ppl are concerned about, said they should.

Its fkn border line mind control zombie style behaviour.

Other solution = switch off your tv, forget the vaccine, keep positive, keep surfing and hold. They are already fkd and they know it. Ppl dont want the vaccine, they dont want to be locked down either, distrust with the media and the government is at an all time high. The numbers are sliding. There's a lot of ppl of all walks of life who are getting fed up including positions of power and authority. This will blow over and we'll all be stronger for it. Ya just gotta hang in there as relentless and stressful as this whole thing is. Just take yourself back to the stats when trying to fight your urge to be a good person in the eye of ScoMo and big pharma.

You can feel the power slipping from them and so can they. There will be a few last ditch efforts but on the whole this is a failed god knows what.

@shortenism a decent and humane response and some good advice and perspective, thanks, appreciated.

All good sypkan,
I think most of us are just blundering round in the dark, mistrustful of what we are being told and unable to rely on most news sources.
These question remain: Who has the most skin in the game? Who has the most to win or lose from the origin of the virus question? And who is most likely to be playing the long game?
As the article suggested there is no smoking gun, but I do smell cordite...

3. " The Patently obvious Lab Leak " by ML / Drastic.
tbb can't claim this leak but can stoke the Smoking Gun some more!

Crew all know the story of the 3 viral Lab Rats...no point beating 'round the bush...we'll crack on!
Story goes that these WIV Lab Rats laid out a Lab Rat Trap to catch themselves out?

(All) Sept 2019 All Wuhan Labs had to Shape up to US Safety standard prior to WMG.
Implying that US Military were gonna check in on their Pet Projects at CAS / WIV.
We're talking about a Safety / Clean-up Presentation of all Joint US GOF pet projects.
This can be adopted into Leak 1 / 2 ...as tbb said...all Military are on the same Evil Side.
All access cross site traffic from Labs > Games Site > Hotels > Wet Market are all in play.

Can read the full report here if you like...
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/2019%20Mojiang%20Mineshaft%20Sample%20Review.pdf

(Early) Nov 2019 ( 3 WIV Lab Rats go to Hospital or so we're told )...This fits in around here!
12th Nov 2019 Communist Party meeting { WIV BSL4 Safety Management }
15th Nov 2019 WIV file a Patent for a Lab Accident Contraption...for bites & broken vials etc...
{ The WIV Patent for Treating a wound sustained in a Lab Accident }
https://telegra.ph/Lab-Accident-Patent-02-02
Here's the actual Patent...this is an ongoing CAS Lab Leak Crisis that needed immediate attention.
Any media trying to claim no leaks are involved in the scam...or not worth shit!
https://web.archive.org/web/20201114002729/https://patents.google.com/pa...
tbb also double checked & Yes! The Scientists involved ...100% checks out!

17th Nov 2019 First Covid Case 55 y/o Man
19th Nov WIV Safety Meeting to address "Common Problems".
22nd Nov Daszak " ID'ing Strains/Spikes binding to Humans using humanised Mice & non vax response
"Ralph is IDing Pandemic Strain Covs that can evade Vax & Cures.

Not true - we’ve made great progress with bat SARS-related CoVs, ID’ing >50 novel strains, sequencing spike protein genes, ID’ing ones that bind to human cells, using recombinant viruses/humanized mice to see SARS-like signs, and showing some don’t respond to MAbs, vaccines... https://t.co/NIyMKsxxi2

— Peter Daszak (@PeterDaszak) November 21, 2019

1st Dec - 53 y/o Woman + Alzheimers Man in 70's
8th Dec Chinese Health Official "(Publicly Brands 1st Coronavirus Case) Now 41 Hospital Cases.

9th Dec WIV > Batman / Batlady / Davroz / Oz Danny > Singapore Virology Karaoke 215 / 24 countries.
WHO + 215 Best Virus trackers can't locate the Wuhan novel outbreak...not on their radar.
https://www.singhealth.com.sg/news/tomorrows-medicine/new-conference-to-...

11th Dec WIV train 20 new hires in confidentiality on recent cases safety violations.
Batman returns to " witness the outbreak " his words + Dines out each night with WIV Scientists.
30th Dec Batwoman is told of Outbreak & Shi immediately thinks of WIV Lab Leak
WHO spent the next month ensuring each World Bio Lab got an equal share of Covid before the hooter.

PS: ( Bookend to 22nd Nov Daszak & Ralph ) The rest of WIV gang pre Karaoke conferences.
29th Jan 2020 Batman / Batlady / Robin / Oz Danny release Coronavirus Next Gen Sequence Paper
https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/mSphere.00807-19

If a person doesn't trust or believe anything the experts and Govt. are saying there is a good chance they are just another delusional brainwashed conspiracy fuckwit. The more time a fuckwit spends "researching" a subject on the net the further he gets from the truth. If you want to believe the Earth is flat there is plenty of "proof" on the net and the more you look into it the easier it becomes to believe, but it doesn't make it true. If nothing else this thread makes a strong case for staying on your meds. Get the jab.

Last night night on ABC7.30, it was shown there are 3 cases of blood clots for every 100000 people under 50yo.. Watch the episode.
Picture the MCG chocker block. 120000 people at the footy. Then picture a terrorist shooting 3 or 4 of them. But those 4 being shot, some dying, some hospitalized with permanent organ damage, means we're all safer. And this happens every week, week after week. Fill the MCG, then fire 3 or 4 bullets.
When you think of it THAT way, 3 in 100000 is a risk, if YOU'RE sitting in an MCG seat.

These rushed covid vaccines are not for people, they are for the new god - the economy..
Vaccines usually have a ten year period of trials to check for long term effects. No amount of money can bend time. Not even a trillion can give you the long term side effect data ten years of observations can give. Anyone saying they can bend time should not be trusted.
I am pro vaccine. But i am not pro rushed short cut vaccine simply to appease capitalism.
If the whole world would bite the bullet, and seriously lock down for 6 weeks, the virus would die. But our god ,the economy, is far too important for common sense.

Some blokes even expect 120 girls to get shot at this MCG hypothetical just so they don’t have to wear a rubber

Thats almost every man

"These question remain: Who has the most skin in the game? Who has the most to win or lose from the origin of the virus question? And who is most likely to be playing the long game?
As the article suggested there is no smoking gun, but I do smell cordite..."

all fair and good questions san guine...

that I believe can be answered by this fair and good article

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2021-06-01/wuhan-lab-leak-inquiry/

dunno what cordite is... but I can smell shit...

Want to learn something the media won't tell you: there are a range of safe drugs that can be used as a prophylactic measure (intended to prevent disease).

Ivermectin has been safely used for 30 years. At correct doses, it is safe for pregnant women and their babies.

However there is no money in it for Big Pharma, AND, the propaganda war for our minds has been won. Otherwise, you would be KEEN to check this out.

The Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance, specialise in the the Prevention & Treatment Protocols for COVID-19.
Here is their synopsis on the The Efficacy of Ivermectin Against COVID‑19 (hint, it works)

Below is the video and slide deck of Dr. Pierre Kory’s lecture given during the January 27, 2021 webinar hosted by YPO Gold’s Southern California Chapter.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-lecture-for-ypo-g...

Old dog translation = if you don’t do or trust everything that you’re told then you’re fkwit.

Wow old dog. Fk me is this the epitome of the modern Australian man!? I feel ashamed to have typed beside you in the same anonymous thread.

I've got Ivermectin. My family are taking it. We will not take an experimental vaccine. We will continue to listen to medical experts, such as Dr Robert Malone who invented the mRNA technology used in these vaccines, Noble Prize winning virologist Luc Montagnier, Doctors for Covid Ethics, and the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance.

In my view, we are incapable of having a sensible conversation about all this, while we are downstream from the past 12 years of propaganda in Australia on Vaccines.

Here is a link to a free version of Prof Brian Martin's 2018 book 'Vaccine Panic in Australia': https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4482&context=lhapapers

Abstract
In 2009 in Australia, a citizens' campaign was launched to silence public criticism of vaccination. This campaign involved an extraordinary variety of techniques to denigrate, harass and censor public vaccine critics. It was unlike anything seen in other scientific controversies, involving everything from alleging beliefs in conspiracy theories to rewriting Wikipedia entries.

"If a person doesn't trust or believe anything the experts and Govt. are saying there is a good chance they are just another delusional brainwashed conspiracy fuckwit. The more time a fuckwit spends "researching" a subject on the net the further he gets from the truth. If you want to believe the Earth is flat there is plenty of "proof" on the net and the more you look into it the easier it becomes to believe, but it doesn't make it true. If nothing else this thread makes a strong case for staying on your meds. Get the jab."

yes and no olddog...

read these three articles, that are quite different to what the government and experts have been saying...

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-lea...

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2021-06-01/wuhan-lab-leak-inquiry/

all from good sources who have nothing to hide and not much to gain beyond a bit of notoriety, ...be it good, or career destroying bad...

pretty sure they are not delusional brainwashed conspiracy fuckwits...

they are real journalists asking the questions that should have been asked 16 months ago

If good journalists did ask these questions 16 months ago, pretty sure the world wouldn't be so nutty and divided right now, and reasonable people would have acted, and be acting, much more reasonably now...

that doesn't make me an anti-vaxxer or a conspiracy nutter, Im quite the opposite actually

Yeah interesting sheep doggy dog.i've wondered that if we all could just hibernated for a few weeks would the virus stop spreading?
i always thought that a universal global 'Nyepi Day[or month]'could be beneficial to the environment/humankind?
just shut everything down for a little while.

I never was an antivaxxer til covid.
From the start you gotta question.........
the origin?
the way the feds ran their quasi quarantines and health advice?
WHO's narrative?
media's narrative?
the experimental jab they're calling a vaccine?

Hopefully next time a man made virus is released they'll have a better protocol on how to manage and control the err, umm sheep.....or dogs.
lets just call this the rehearsal.

Channel 10 now

Yes Jack

Yes Jack

Notice how, in Australia, the term 'anti-vaxxer' is synonymous with 'brainwashed conspiracy theorist hippy or RWNJ'?

Just observing the state of the collective consciousness.

Nevermind critical thinking, skepticism, listening to voices critical of Big Pharma, corruption, ...
Look into the studies on Ivermectin. It works. And look into the conspiratorial practices, not theories, as to what is going on around Ivermectin. We're talking trillions of dollars.

Ppl, fuckwits, are looking for conspiracies that read like action movies, or horror movies, pedos at pizza shops, or the US president as a Russian agent... faaarrk.

Conspiracy practices happen in broad-daylight, in front of our propaganda beaten faces. - we just accept them.

This is about huuuuuuuge money.

Ivermectin works.

But covid vaccines facilitate the transference of wealth from 'the people' to 'the elites'. To hell with the injuries it causes. Human suffering means nothing to these people. Look at Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Aboriginal Australia, ... they only give a shit about profit.

But all of a sudden, crew on here thinks 'the Empire' acts in your best interest.

You've been propagandised. Right in front of all of our faces. In broad daylight.

Corruption and greed.

There is no vaccine against propaganda.

old-dog wrote:

If a person doesn't trust or believe anything the experts and Govt. are saying there is a good chance they are just another delusional brainwashed conspiracy fuckwit. The more time a fuckwit spends "researching" a subject on the net the further he gets from the truth. If you want to believe the Earth is flat there is plenty of "proof" on the net and the more you look into it the easier it becomes to believe, but it doesn't make it true. If nothing else this thread makes a strong case for staying on your meds. Get the jab.

I’ve read some shit takes on this whole topic, this beats them all. Fuck me.

If we don’t all trust the government we’re delusional fuckwits…old dog you need help mate, you’re cooked.

As for the experts, for every 100 experts that say one thing, there’s another 200 that say another about this virus. And it’s the 200 that question or offer up alternatives such as ivermectin that are flagged as the conspiracists.

Whatever your view on the vaccine (and I’ll take it eventually when it appears there’s a plan for Australia to stop locking down), you need to clearly understand as pointed out above by another poster, this vaccine is a global trial and nobody has any idea what the medium to long term impacts are. It’s a risk everyone is taking to survive the virus, which is fine, but people are right to be sceptical considering the rushed nature of it. For most, the virus won’t harm them, but the vaccine…jury still out.

Nahh mate. @ jack stance. Prof Brian Martin - supervisor of pseudo (social) science doctorate Wilyman - who links vaccines to autism.

Zero credibility in the hard science or area of expertise.

https://www.skeptics.com.au/2016/01/15/bent-spoon-for-university-of-woll...

https://newmatilda.com/2016/02/07/anti-vaccination-cranks-versus-academi...

Without getting too controversial here, but in the brief lapses i've had allowing main stream media to infiltrate my happy place, and by reading comments and posts from friends on facebook and the like, it really does seem like people are turning on each other big time regarding vaccines/covid. It's pretty evident on Swellnet too, and good on everyone for having their views/opinions. Gonna leave my own personal views to the side on this one, but in those moments i try to put some answers to all the questions i have in my own head about the last 18 months up to now, the one thing that keeps coming to mind is that old chestnut.. divide and conquer. People are truly divided at the moment,..at least in the free Western World, where we've had so much freedom for so long.

Nah @bonza, you're obviously not across Prof Brian Martin work.

However, you, or someone writing shallow iterations, has already made your mind up.

Read this, it is free: Prof Brian Martin's 2018 book 'Vaccine Panic in Australia': https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4482&context=lhapapers

And have you seen his other work: 17 books, hundreds of article. 'Doing good thing better' is particularly useful.

He also oversaw David Hicks' wife PhD. Do you who Hicks is.

Prof Martin is, in my view, disinterested in the interests and bullshit claims of the Empire and it's echo chambers. Hence he draws its ire.

Geez......what?wow! it's divide n conquer?
I always thought it was divide n bonkers!

Haha. +2 for the two posts above

No of course I don’t know who hicks is coz I was born yesterday.

You are drawing long bows between complex and distinct subjects and coming up with severely loose conclusions. Stick to the point

Here’s a suggestion. If you want to have a debate on the covid vaccine try not promoting social scientists who supervise other social scientists particular those who wanna claim vaccines lead to autism.

Some song i just came across....sounded a bit like a Guttermouth/NOFX kinda song

Well Herpes and aids no longer mean that much
When talkin’ ‘bout diseases of the human touch
I tried to do my best I tried to walk away
From this non stop aggression, all this human rage
We’re clawing at each others throats with self righteousness
All loaded up on knowledge gained from zee internet
But if I tell you something that’s my human right
Something I was born with to protect me……
(chorus)
I don’t wanna be Vaccinated
I don’t wanna be Vaccinated
Don’t wanna be vaccinated
Give me another year and I’ll contemplate it…..

Do I ask you about your haemorrhoids
Please give me a description about your vaginal warts
No I do nothing I just live my life,
Flick on the news every few days 5
And for 15 static minutes life becomes their theatre of fear
I flick it right back off and clean out my bleeding ears
Pick up my guitar and strum a song that’s creeping in
Not a number named Covid, just basic human stupidity…..
Stupidity…
Stupidity……
Stupidity….
I don’t wanna be vaccinated (x4)

@Bonza, you talk about staying on point. Perhaps practice it.

"Promoting" is a long bow to draw.

Do you know of any other authority who has published analysis on vaccination propaganda in Australia?

It's not like I'm sharing some old mates Facebook thread.

The point for which I put forth Prof Martin's work is on propagandising of the Australian public in relation to vaccines.

You then went to the work of people he's supervised. Happy to leave the point and go there.

Dr Judy Wilyman's book 'Vacci-nation, Australia's loss of health freedom: A Critical Analysis of the Australia Government's Rationale for its Vaccination Policy' was the subject of a relentless and abusive campaign against intellectual freedom, because it challenges the trajectory of public health policy and practice from a community participative model of Comprehensive Primary Health Care (PHC), to a Selective PHC practice, which is dominated and championed by "philanthropic" private sector funders and their advocates in the Medical Industrial Complex, leading to a biased biomedical research establishment, with an entrenched aversion to address "Undone Research".

In other words, do you really think community interests dominate the trajectory of the Medical Industrial Complex?

Are you that naive?

or just propagandised like the rest of us.

Dr Wilyman's work is an assault on their profit model, hence the manufactured outrage. Not that crew that poo poo Vacci-nation have read it. They've just be told to hate it.

No. You are promoting or quoting a author and her supervisor by default who in her manuscript references several articles to put forward her case, all of which are pseudo science discredited arguments that claim vaccines cause autism.

I’m calling that bullshit and thus your argument void.

pinpoint the arguments. What page and paragraph, and then link the rebuttal.

I've got the book at hand.

I just provided 2 sources of reasonable integrity that claim Wilyman uses vaccines=autism to support her thesis.

I call it bullshit.

You put it forward. Why don’t you try defending it.

Prof Robert Clancy says himself that science has been replaced by idealism’s in this country’s response to COVID. Lockdowns, masks, mass vaccination not the answer. Ivermectin is.

What’s ya thoughts bonza while your out swinging?

Short I’m sure you are a nice guy but I don’t argue with nutcases.

Easiest heat win yet

Is that all you've got? really.

Don't gaslight me?

that is pissweak conduct.

Of course you put it forward first.

Just re-read the above. It is self evident.

You said:
"Nahh mate. @ jack stance. Prof Brian Martin - supervisor of pseudo (social) science doctorate Wilyman - who links vaccines to autism.
Zero credibility in the hard science or area of expertise."

That is your claim.

your pissweak "source", is not authoritative. You need to provide a reference. AND you need to reference at the core statements of your criticism. So I can debate your claims.

You can't just hide behind some opaque vague claim. That is not debating cleanly.

I am here and ready to debate your claims, with citations.

So just simply state your case. With references so we can argue on the sticking "point".

Yeah cool. Hey jack.do youwanna hit the edit button and try that one cause I have no idea what you just said.

It’s pretty simple. Are you defending your source who claims vaccines = autism?

You said:
"Nahh mate. @ jack stance. Prof Brian Martin - supervisor of pseudo (social) science doctorate Wilyman - who links vaccines to autism.
Zero credibility in the hard science or area of expertise."

You're attacking Prof Brian Martin, the onus is on you to be precise.

Then you went to Wilyman, again the onus is on you to be precise.