Vaccinate or not
@Sypkan "stalky"?
a) this is a forum, where we're trying to debate difficult issues.
b) Boltsa claimed that I said something that I did not say
c) I heard him to account.
Why would you say that holding someone to account who's clearly done the wrong thing "stalky"
I wonder.
Four stage Covid plan
This is good news was hoping for something like this after Singapore drew up their road map out of things, really gives people something to aim for and real reason to get vaccinated.
I love it how the vaccinated are rewarded too, it's going to be so fun to watch the anti vax crowd whinge.
Also love how he is saying things like " The goal, as Prime Minister Scott Morrison said, is for Australia to begin treating COVID-19 "like the flu".
Ive been worried that this mindset wouldn't come around even after vaccination of the population.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-02/covid-lockdown-vaccination-phases...
If the EXPERIMENTAL VAX is so good can anyone please explain why a fully vaccinated person would need to quarantine at home or anywhere?
but is it truly a plan indod?
or haphazardly stating the bleeding obvious and inevitable after being recently called out in the media, for having no plan?
...and borrowing / stealing singapore's plan to appear to have a plan...
either way I'm happy annastacia palaszczuk has stated the obvious... (and jumped in bed with barnaby joyce... eewwww...) ...ie. the virus isn't going anywhere, and australia needs to get a bit more realistic, grow up, and get on with shit...
I said it months ago, ...oz is plagued by our success, which has created unrealistic expectations, and now some serious complacency that has come back to bight us re. vaccines...
some date indicators would be good on scomo's 'plan'... something better than... '...possibly maybe in the first quarter, last quarter...' etc.
either way, nice to see palaszczuk's dummy spit has opened up the conversation a bit...
sorry jack stance, i was having a bit of a joke with the stalky uppity thing... probably not funny, or appropriate, because was a bit of an in joke...
but I think bonza is done... so yeh, seeming a little stalky... good onya, trying to hold people to account, ...but it's just the internet... so as serious and personal as it gets... don't take it too seriously and personal...
Wow indo, if I was a betting man I'd say one of your kids will smack you in the head one day and say "why were you so stupid dad'. You supported a tyrannical con job and now us future generations have to get pricked, prodded and digitally certified to cross the border in our own country... It will all be on swellnet for them to see. Fk me.
100% agree indo, I think it’s a good outcome and way forward for Australia.
And it was fun to see Palaszczuk lose her cool, snap at the media and go into fighting mode
shortenism wrote:Wow indo, if I was a betting man I'd say one of your kids will smack you in the head one day and say "why were you so stupid dad'. You supported a tyrannical con job and now us future generations have to get pricked, prodded and digitally certified to cross the border in our own country... It will all be on swellnet for them to see. Fk me.
Ha ha this post is classic.
"If the EXPERIMENTAL VAX is so good can anyone please explain why a fully vaccinated person would need to quarantine at home or anywhere?"
because it's not so good?
because they're shit, desperate, and probably pretty much lip service to the last 18 months of hype?
interesting to see people in article comments asking for access to sinovax...
the vaccine the WHO seem to have belatedly begrudgingly approved...
the vaccine the EU do not even recognise...
chinabots?
or crew that think china made it, china can fix it?
bizzaro anyway, that's the last one I'd hate to be stuck with
Yep Bonza, the thought process of the flat earther/conspiracy nut has intrigued me for decades.
I've ended up putting it down to one or more of a few different things.
- Some have a belief that science has failed both the environment and the future and so should be distrusted and rejected.
- The thought process might have initially started out as an exploration but after significant investment of time and energy as well as the development of a peer group echo chamber, it becomes natural/hegomonic.
- Some see it as cool, edgy or anti-authority. Fashion, if you will.
- Some people are lazy, they can't be bothered to engage in critical thinking. They're easily swayed.
- Of course there are grifters who see a buck in it
- Some people are just stupid. Dumb as dogshit. Sub-normal intelligence.
These people don't even need to free themselves up to believe it's ok to be retarded (although of course it's encouraged by their peer group), they already inhabit the space.
They're morons. Imbeciles. Like the dumbest motherfuckers that ever lived.
sypkan wrote:but is it truly a plan indod?
or haphazardly stating the bleeding obvious and inevitable after being recently called out in the media, for having no plan?
...and borrowing / stealing singapore's plan to appear to have a plan...
either way I'm happy annastacia palaszczuk has stated the obvious... (and jumped in bed with barnaby joyce... eewwww...) ...ie. the virus isn't going anywhere, and australia needs to get a bit more realistic, grow up, and get on with shit...
I said it months ago, ...oz is plagued by our success, which has created unrealistic expectations, and now some serious complacency that has come back to bight us re. vaccines...
some date indicators would be good on scomo's 'plan'... something better than... '...possibly maybe in the first quarter, last quarter...' etc.
either way, nice to see palaszczuk's dummy spit has opened up the conversation a bit...
I agree on the plagued by success bit.
Im betting its why its so hard to get Pfizer, everyone wants it and has orders in but its going to countries that actually have Covid running rampant.
I was thinking the other day that maybe the best thing that could actually happen is an outbreak gets so out of control we just go fuck it, its here lets live with it...but it probably wouldn't work out that way, they would probably just lock us down for months.
100% disagree Indo. I think its a terrible and tyrannical outcome for Australia over a supposed virus they are now publicly (although we always knew) comparing to the flu...!? Are you FKNG kidding me!!!?? They have put how many out of work, how many suicides, how many family separations for funerals and celebrations, how much domestic violence....? They have systematically done their best to fuck you and your fellow Australians over and you think that this is a 'good' outcome.
If you guys are all surfers, it makes me want to go and take up another sport with ppl with some fkn brains and balls. Fk me.
@ Zen if your out there, how's Japan doing with vaccinations and feelings around Astrazeneca etc, as i just saw an article about Japan giving Indonesia 2 million Astrazeneca doses.
Thanks fk AndyM is a keyboard warrior only, he could do some real damage with any self belief or confidence..
AndyM wrote:Yep Bonza, the thought process of the flat earther/conspiracy nut has intrigued me for decades.
I've ended up putting it down to one or more of a few different things.- Some have a belief that science has failed both the environment and the future and so should be distrusted and rejected.
- The thought process might have initially started out as an exploration but after significant investment of time and energy as well as the development of a peer group echo chamber, it becomes natural/hegomonic.
- Some see it as cool, edgy or anti-authority. Fashion, if you will.
- Some people are lazy, they can't be bothered to engage in critical thinking. They're easily swayed.
- Of course there are grifters who see a buck in it
- Some people are just stupid. Dumb as dogshit. Sub-normal intelligence.
These people don't even need to free themselves up to believe it's ok to be retarded (although of course it's encouraged by their peer group), they already inhabit the space.
They're morons. Imbeciles. Like the dumbest motherfuckers that ever lived.
I think there is another important aspect.
A need to feel special and part of a tribe, like hey we are the chosen few that hold the truth and all you other people are the crazy ones (sheep)
Ah great another OSCAR nominee in AndyM is it Indo..? I'm out of cabbages to throw at the screen but will find something. Fk me.
@AndyM
Here's part 1 of Edward Snowdens 'Conspiracy: Theory and Practice: Toward a Taxonomy of Conspiracies'.
https://edwardsnowden.substack.com/p/conspiracy-pt1
:
The greatest conspiracies are open and notorious — not theories, but practices expressed through law and policy, technology, and finance. Counterintuitively, these conspiracies are more often than not announced in public and with a modicum of pride. They’re dutifully reported in our newspapers; they’re bannered onto the covers of our magazines; updates on their progress are scrolled across our screens — all with such regularity as to render us unable to relate the banality of their methods to the rapacity of their ambitions.
The party in power wants to redraw district lines. The prime interest rate has changed. A free service has been created to host our personal files. These conspiracies order, and disorder, our lives; and yet they can’t compete for attention with digital graffiti about pedophile Satanists in the basement of a DC pizzeria.
This, in sum, is our problem: the truest conspiracies meet with the least opposition.
"...virus they are now publicly (although we always knew) comparing to the flu...!? "
this really is quite funny...
after months and months, if not over a year now, of saying... 'no its not just the flu, and only nutty trumpers would say such a thing...'
now many countries and people of authority are saying, '...we need to learn to live with the virus and its outcomes, ...just like the flu...'
it's bloody hilarious, they really could have worked on that one a bit more
Mate I truly do know what you're talking about and agree.
It's just that when you give links to those encouraging the autism/vaccination link and then dance around it with psychobabble, I start to think you're a bit shifty, a bit disingenuous, not acting in good faith.
Of course I think everyone should wake up to the intentions of certain governments and corporations but throwing the scientific baby out with the bathwater is dumb and unthinking.
Like I said, I see part of this as fashion, I mean, that same flat earth cohort totally accepts the science behind climate change, in their circles it would be social suicide to question it.
Yet they question other settled science based on mountains of evidence.
Hey Shortenism, as they say in the classics, take a bit step back and fuck your own face.
AndyM, you're entitled to your opinion, of course, and if it is based in fact, even better.
There’s alot of mixed information around the delta strain and now delta plus strain. They say it’s more deadly in that it’s 40-60 % more contagious. There has been data however coming in from the UK suggesting its not as severe in how it effects you . Various news reports will say something different.
Which bit's not based in fact Jackstance?
You gotta be more specific than that.
This is what I'm talking about, if you were acting in good faith you'd be a lot more upfront instead of mincing around.
Sorry for my vagueness in this moment.
The par where you say: I start to think you're a bit shifty, a bit disingenuous, not acting in good faith.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion.
Well you've been avoiding some pretty straightforward questions for quite a few pages now.
To me the most interesting thing about conspiracy theorists is not what they believe but why they choose to believe things which any critical thinking intelligent well educated person would laugh at. They must be so narcissistic they actually truly believe they have a special gift and that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. They are generally seen driving around Byron in an old Kombis with twin fin mals on the roof, adjusting their man buns on the way to Centrelink.
Hahaha thanks Andy I got a laugh out of that.
Nah, you’re (shorto, Jacky et al) totally misreading / misrepresenting this argument. Probably wilfully.
The long-term management of this, once there is a level of immunity / resilience in the community, will be similar to the flu.
Not COVID = flu
Or
We should have treated COVID like the flu from the start
Or
COVID isn’t that bad, like the flu.
Flip the conversation Shorto. You’re perhaps the one lacking a bit of personal and emotional resilience in all this. You done / faced anything hard in your life?
Shortenism.....Body Implants ... more info ?
Tom Cruise's finest moment Shortenism.
Shortenism's had pec and calf implants??
Really???
Jeez, and I always thought he was so butch.
Old dog - narcissism is totally in fashion in some parts. Self-reflection not so much.
My sister told me (twice) that when she's asked the universe for it to rain, it rained.
@AndyM
Like avoiding letting Boltsa's lie hang in air?
Or avoiding getting drawn into argument that a) I don't profess to know the answer to, and b) is a completely different topic as to what I'm here talking about and interested in.
Speaking of avoiding, I may have missed it, but did you go quiet after I raised a) information that I understand to be accurate about the conflicts of interest at the Autism Science Foundation; and b) the ASF's apparent misrepresentation of the Verstraeten Study?
- all good if so, we have lives, and it appears that good information isn't easy to find. - not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I'm sure there are kernels of wisdom to be found in most places, and in all people.
Anyhow, like I continued to try to bring to Boltsa's attention, I don't know what the truth of the matter is, I'm here to share in a discourse about power dynamics, I have not solidified an opinion and I do not know what to think about the link, or absence of link, between vaccines and autism. Where I am at so far is that it does seem, from what I can see, like there is a lot of conflicts of interest and misrepresentations concerning the topic, which are, to my mind, indicators of corruption. I think my views and conduct have expressed this.
One thing I do believe, which I've repeatedly stated, is that I think that it's near impossible to have reasonable conversations about what the truth of the matter might be given the proliferation of corruption, and vested interests, and how that informs the propaganda shitstorm that we are downstream of. Which, in my mere opinion, also lays the foundation for the flourishing of conspiracy nut jobs.
In sum, whilst I have some, albeit limited research skills, given the above, I'm well aware that I am ignorant to what the truth of the link may be, however obviously when looking at the corruption, I clearly have a bias against the establishment. And, As I'e acknowledged there are so many intelligent, good hearted, right minded professionals in the industry. - of course.
So whilst I'm looking at a range of sources, and whilst I do not trust the establishment to put people before profit, obviously I won't be drawn into stating an opinion that I have not yet solidified, on that particular point at least, given the gravity of it.
In part it is sincerely why I asked for your opinion on that article. As you seem to know your way around. - and yeah, I was ever so marginally disappointed by, to my mere opinion, what seemed to be a referral to an echo chamber for Big Pharma's vaccine industry. I'm sure there's some good information in there, but like your approach to the article I asked your opinion on, I too approached with an eye for inconsistencies, which I appeared to find and brought to your attention. I also appreciate your effort and time - of course
However, if you want to talk propaganda, the mechanics of manufactured consent, and the range of shitfuckery consequences that an obsession to create profit can cause on earth, and what may be some of the ethical issues with covid responses, then lets yarn. I am here to learn, and to have tested some of the information I've found as well as some of my opinions on covid health policy. I'm risk adverse, and have a bias against institutions with records and practices of corruption.
Some piss funny stuff - I really need to keep away but this made me laugh
“If you guys are all surfers, it makes me want to go and take up another sport with ppl with some fkn brains and balls. Fk me”
You say this like it’s a bad thing? Not sure you surf now?
Ok ok I’m done sorry. It’s the ego kicking in. Funny.
etarip have I done or faced anything hard in my life? Are u kidding, haven’t you seen what I have to deal with on this forum..
Jack, I really don’t see a parallel between some shyster selling books about an indefensible load of shite, and a professional at the top of his field, working in a world-renowned hospital, and at the same time holding a patent.
There’s enough scientific rigor and oversight so as to make conflating efficacy and commercial imperatives a bit of a mug’s game.
well the messaging has certainly changed...
what a difference a day makes. never thought much of annastacia palaszczuk before... but credit where credit is due, she has single handedly overnight completely changed, 'the narrative'...
"...A leading epidemiologist has told news.com.au people “shouldn’t be shocked” if benchmarks we’ve treasured are done away with as we face up to a future with covid.
Zero cases and zero deaths will likely no longer be possible. But neither should snap lockdowns and closed borders.
“The expectation of covid is that we should not see any more deaths than what we see from influenza,” Australian National University infectious diseases physician Professor Peter Collignon said."
"...Don’t be shocked’ if case numbers rise
While the PM didn’t say Australia would follow Singapore’s path of ceasing the reporting of daily case numbers altogether, he did herald that the focus would be on hospitalisations and fatality rates and keeping this to a level “like the flu”.
Case numbers will inevitably rise once city lockdowns are avoided and, later, borders are opened.
“Don’t be shocked if you see more cases but the vast majority of them will be mild at the end of the day,” said Prof Collignon.
“We have to start looking at different criteria. It’s unrealistic to get zero deaths, we don’t have zero deaths with the flu or even the common cold virus.
“How many people die and get seriously ill should be the parameters,” he said."
even stormin norman swan's in on the act...
"...The achievable aim is to turn COVID-19 into the common cold. Then the zero spread goal is entirely unnecessary. But for that we need vaccines in arms in huge numbers fast. The US and UK data are showing the way towards far less impact. We’ve being left behind, knotted in fear."
wow!
...a cynical anti vaxxing freedom fighter conspiracy theorists type, might even go as far as to suggest the apparatus has been irresponsible to let such high expectations develope...
only to let it all come crashing down
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/why-australia-m...
I posted this earlier, this Dr is talking about the delta strain and its impact on various countries accompanied by data , at the end he mentions india but cant use the l word .
Everything is now more Back 2 Front than ever...Please Explain - Covid is back Review!
World Covid is Rising & same as last time the Bully Vax Nations are spiking it.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Israel are spiking a 3 month vax high Peak > covid cases up 140%
UK ramp 2 vax spikes > Covid up 70% > High Vax Cities = High Covid (vs) London Low vax = low covid
US ramp 2 vax spikes > Covid cases up 70% >
What God grants highest Covid spreading Vax nations permission to superspread covid worldwide.
Back 2 Front it is! Stop these Covid Vax Bullies from Spreading their unaccounted Covid.
Oz are screaming & ramping record vax > covid cases are up 123% fuelling Oz wide lockdowns.
More Vax! More Vax! ....fuck the Covid Outbreaks...More Vax Scrums! Squeeze in there cobber!
Crew can plainly see that high vaccination is spiking Covid right now across the World in the off season.
Instead of experts censoring ...how about just one half decent Vax expert stand up & own it & explain.
Where did the World Vax Rollout go so wrong...let's peel back the censor's stickerz and get stuck in.
Day 1 > Day 2 (Censored) What a fucking great start!
UK 8th Dec > Covid was falling to 12,252 cases / day & then they started their dodgy Vax Rollout.
Vaccine rates immediately soared & Covid cases immediately soared to 67,803 cases/day....Like Oops!
In horror...UK instantly backed off the Vax & Covid almost disappeared.
UK Vaccination recently hit rock bottom & Covid cases naturally bottomed out at 1,694/day (Victory!)
So low in fact ...That record Low vaccination almost equalled the No Vax record free covid spell...so close!
Vax came so close to being as effective as nothing...all can dream!
UK were so unhappy about the fact that by dumping their National vax, they almost rid the UK of covid.
UK started vaccinating again to ramp to their current 27,989/day. Much happier now are the Poms, true!
UK Covid is now superspreading Covid too well over double than when Rollout first began.
Tennis fans saluted their Vax Queen for serving up Double Covid...She thought it was some sick joke!
No more but buts...Vaxed senior patients present 67% in Hospital & 31% die...now up this week 11%
Recall once all realized Rollouts were # 1 Covid spreaderz...but Vax has a lower death rate...Say wot!
Not sure how any of these Vax faults count as an Ace ...as tbb said...everything is Back 2 Front.
Again! Like all here...only want a Vax any Vax to work, but tbb can't pretend by name or nature.
Forever seeking the Holy Grail Rollout that can Hail the Vax...please share if you find such a Prize.
Fastest highest Covid peaks in highest vax UK cities, ramping directly off the back of vaccination spikes.
UK lowest / longest covid free periods came with lowest ever zero Vaccine as the best cure to date! True!
This shows as poles apart ...no one could not see plain as day truth...presenting the reverse is dangerous.
Scientific analysis of rollout stats is deemed evil by experts & has been well & truly censored & buried.
Many scientists wish to share as much Vax Rollout Stats as possible before the next Data cull.
Like any here...all prefer covid stats be zero...but if not, let more share the stats to offer up solutions.
If cowardly experts wanna run & hide, then good...less dead wood the better, just leave the Vax stats!
UK 1st Vax dose Ramped Covid to WR amounts
UK 2nd Vax dose is Ramping Covid twice as high as no Vax
UK 3rd Vax dose in September should triple Covid if all goes to plan...Poms will be stoked!
All these Media once Heralded complete Daily World Vax data but now as one, refuse to share Rollout.
All censor the very same 1st Chapter of UK Phase 1 Covid Vaccination & each know why they censored!
No student or Scientist is entitled to start learning from the Pandemic Vax Rollout Bible not now or ever.
All shown are guilty of refusing Pandemic Science that measures Phase 1 Vax safety & efficacy
(OWID - AZ - Oxford Uni) Censor & Corrupt Vax Data > CDC/ ABC censor 100% Vax data sweeps.
NHS / PHE / BBC / Telegraph / Daily Mail / Wiki / Statistica / Yahoo all censor Vax Data.
UK / Australia / US Vax data is up to 100% (Corrupted) to disguise Vax breakthrus / deaths.
All paranoid about vax failings so spend more time hiding the truth during Peak Rollout / breakthrus.
Never once looking up at the scoreboard...soon as Vax clicks 50% then mostly vaxerz spread covid.
What then...already excuse 1 dose breaches...do we excuse VIP teens for hustlin' an old person's vax?
Again none notice that Covid is rising where people are peak vaxing & as always ignore the fact. Shh!
In today's times these bully boy tactics hardly rate as corruption ...just another day at the office!
Vax & Spread is what today's data says...just rub it out & we'll start again...see! No one notices! Sorted!
Lords of the New Church ...Open Your Eyes
Got my first shot of AZ covid vaccine yesterday 2/7 in South Oz.
I am 46 years old so in the slightly elevated danger zone for complications from the AZ vaccine.
I didn't decide to get vaccinated for me. I just think a society/community with a high proportion of of the population vaccinated may well fare better economically and just in general into the future.
If I develop blood clots and die I will be sure to post here about my demise.
P.S. 18 hours since the jab and no adverse reactions so far but GP said they are more likely to occur 24 to 48 hours post jab.
Well played Shorto, but you can step away anytime for a sanity check.
Imagine if the senior QLD health guru looked at the risk of surfing big waves, contact sport, driving cars, mountain bike riding, the tour de France etc.
All such activities would be banned immediately as she said she would not accept one death that could have been prevented.
Her worry about the 18 year old potentially dieing from a vaccine caused blood clot was about a one in a million risk probability.
The contraceptive pill creates blood clot risks. She should ban it now on her logic.
Risk perceptions and acceptance levels have gone crazy.
And parachuted into the Governor's role with zero public consultation and being known as a staunch anti-monarchist.
If hypocrisy was a sport, Dr. J would be a title contender.
@Zen
Whats the general public/media vibe like with AZ vaccine in Japan?
As i noticed yesterday Japan is giving Indonesia a few million AZ batches.
Indo, they're giving all the AZ away and we're getting either Pfizer or Moderna. I finally get mine later this month. (Pfizer).
@zen Dr J will probably call for seperation from Australia and will be the self appointed president/dictator
@ Zen
Okay cheers, thought they might have been ditching their AZ, always interesting to see how countries like Japan and Singapore etc do things.
Supa, check out Hildebrands opinion piece on todays news.com.au regarding Dr. J, he's spot-on in my opinion.
FFS, these morons hold so much power and are charged with making decisions in the so-called 'interest of the public.' Personally, I think she should be fired for the stupid remarks she said. Incompetence at best, criminal at worst.
I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?