He is taking tow surfing to another level, how are those cutbacks!

That's not surfing.....that's art

Now what was I sYing about tow in vs paddle?

Just going to town on those huge waves. That was wicked!

Still wave specific for the boards, suit jaws but in other waves it seems a battle between art and artist

Absolutely a whole new level ... incredible
That last wave ....

Wow ! Amazing surfing. Incredible.
Are those big guns going to be a thing of the past ?

I read the comments before watching the vid and was thinking I dunno what you guys were on about. I'm no a big fan of airs, so that was cool but I was "Oh hum...I still think the guys getting barrelled on guns is more impressive. Sweet hacks though."

Then I saw saw that last wave....

hahaha, this has been going on for a decade , but the fashion of paddling in to see who has the biggest gonads became the M O Of surfing's big wave elite , at the expense of performance , but here's kai , just ripping it up!

Bit of snowboarding about that clip, AK style...

Incredible lines. How's those hooks in the pocket!

Apart from the air, is this really much of an advancement on the tow surfing Laird and co were doing here a decade or more ago?

As for tube-rides, I think the paddle-in guys backdooring the peak is far more impressive.

That's was awesome to watch no doubt. KL is an extraordinary all rounder in the surf.

For me personally, the paddle in looks equally as impressive, mainly due to the speed the paddle in crew get, or lack of, it seems to match the wave speed closer therefore creating more anticipation for the viewer. Are they going to make this section, then when they do, it's looks incredible...

It's all good tho!!

Tow schmo.

that barrel was way deeper than anything I've seen Laird ever get (at jaws). And the carves. And air. C'mon wsl hold a tow comp at jaws too!

I actually think Peahi /Jaws is actually a Tow spot , as per their local laws and yes it would be interesting to see a Tow Comp included , on the big max days so we could see some of those waves ridden that the paddlers can't get.

Towing leads to more spectacular turns, no doubt.
But paddle-in is what requires "a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."

If you have tow-in, you might as well have most of the WSL competing.
With a bit of acclimatization, I'd back Kolohe Andino to beat Greg Long on a 5 foot tow board at Pe'ahi, because you have actually removed the requirement for most of Long's very special big wave riding skill set.

It would seem a shame.

You have to realize that kai lenny is the best surfer in the world so anthing he does nowadays is better than anything previously done in history I think so there he goes blowing minds again he owns it on watever equipment wait for him to hydrofoil it or something soon !

Isn't it the act of riding a wave that we all get off on ?
Therefore tow wins hands down when it comes to actual performance on the wave.
I like the idea of not having to use motorised anything, but for this size and larger, it is a neccesity.

As much as the paddle crew have advanced the limits of what's possible...I'm happy to see the resurgence of some towing in the right conditions...especially when the talent of the young kids like Kai is so incredible. I agree with FR, that outside of the air, it's not so different to Laird...but it's been what 10 years now without it being "OK" to tow. I think the progression may just explode again given the chance.

Towing is fine and all that jazz except for if everyone did it . I hope he pulls out a booger , an alaia , outrigger , maybe even bodysurf , now wouldn't that be the highest echelon (is that a surf word) kai has the best balance & hope it doesn't start a new laird era . Sorta like how we hope trump doesnt use nuclear weapons . The tow revolution is still happening and more massive waves will be surfed . Kai lenny will not prioritize tow over his other disciplines mr miyagi

The so called purists don't want to tow yet all I see around the big wave events is skis everywhere. They ferry guys out the spot to start, they give them lifts back out, they are in waiting for safety, for camera crew and for spare equipement. Then there is the back up boats.....paddle is good marketing but there is no doubt performance lifts when they can use smaller tow equipment.

caml wouldn't tow in maximise the number of waves ridden? The crowds at Mavericks and Jaws seem to increase with every swell.

Of course, getting towed in behind a motorized craft increases performance, we saw that with guys getting whipped in in 3ft surf.......but it don't mean much.
And very quickly, despite the increased performance people get sick of it....because it isn't real surfing. It's ugly and it stinks.

Thats why tow-ats quickly became as cool as roller-blading and big wave towing became like wake-boarding.
No doubt guys can rip getting towed into 30 ft and beyond surf (although performance at Nazare is still depressingly banal) but it has no meaning..........

what matters in big surf, is being able to whip it around, stare down that wall of water and push over the ledge. Pushing it over the ledge steep and deep and back-dooring the peak is the new normal in massive wave paddle-in surfing, something that 20 years of tow surfing couldn't really top.

As for not catching heaps of waves, did you not watch what just happened at Jaws? There were shiteloads of waves ridden....in fact, that was one of the rad things about the day. With 6 guys in the water there was tons of action.

The women, not so much, but for a first time, they still put on a helluva show.

Emphasis on "some towing in the right conditions ". How that's managed and/or policed is the issue historically. Wankers towing in 6 ft waves or tow ats are never acceptable for me...I'm talking extreme conditions. I would imagine laying rail on a 40ft wave at Mach speed would feel INSANE...I'd disagree that wouldn't carry meaning.
But the actual judgement lays with those actually doing it...certainly not me at those realms...that's why paddle is the real source of it...because we all have our own personal limit we're connected to paddling whether it be 6ft, 12ft, 3ft whatever. I like to watch, observe and admire what is beyond me...and that includes high range towing.

That obviously wasn;t extreme conditions at Jaws though Crg - not having a go- because people had been paddling it and paddling it extremely successfully all day.

to me, it looked like he was mucking around out there, and no doubt after paddling it that's what it felt like to him.

Sure paddling is harder and the performance potential less than getting towed, but a helicopter can get you to the top of Everest a lot quicker than climbing it yourself too .......There is something fundamental that captures the imagination on a very deep level- I'm sure it touches something primal like the hunter staring down a charging sabretooth tiger before spearing it between the eyes- about someone paddling into a giant wave using their own paddle strength and nothing more.

Most of thr pro-tow crew on here would have skis...i wonder if they are worried about the environment?..its gettin crazy down here too..6ft beachies and 6 skis out..like waterworld..ever surfed near one? Noisy, smelly, washy..but hey wave count counts, right?..can understand using for slabs or the massive unpaddleable days..but i could watch big wave paddle-ins all day long and tow surfing gimme about 5mins

I dig the sentiments against tow and for paddle and agree with it to some extent. But that vid was sick. They were fairly legit big waves and he was playing around like it was a fun beachie. Good value I reckon.

Personally I'd much rather watch amazing paddle surfing because I can visualise it and imagine how terrifying it would be. But I also like it when the CT is held in tricky beach breaks like in San Fran a few years back. Getting a ski back to the top of the point at jbay is in some ways like getting a chopper to the top of a mountain. But paddling out through shifty waves and picking the better peaks is part of surfing.

Anyway I digress, whatever that was a fun clip.

Yep a fun clip - fun is the thing we all want when surfing - for me paddling into a bloody huge wave, that could kill you - isn't fun.
I think many do it for bragging rights - I have bigger balls than you type situation, but is it fun?
I think the tow would bring some kind of fun back to riding those monsters.
Kai was sure having his share of fun :))

Just like tree huggers rely on bulldozers to exist . This is the same old debate guys but am living the read nonetheless . I was led to believe that there was some tow sessions recently due to too much wind for paddlers to have priority & kai was one of many that towed & just ironically kai was the standout , thats really all there is to it

It's the challenge ...and it's not for everybody...it's the elite edge of surfing.

Anyone see the latest Mavs edit on Surfline?

Check the Ben Andrews drop on a 20 footer.....so technical, so much skill and balls and knowhow to paddle in and ride a wave like that successfully.
Truly the pinnacle.

once upon a time , the new sport of snow skiing , was so ballsy and so core , that you had to walk up the mountains , and then ski down.
Then came technology , they worked out how to build lifts to the top of the mountains and some backwater redneck decided to get rid of one of the skis and called it snow boarding.
Of course there are those who would still prefer to walk up the mountain and use their wooden skis , but, there were those who saw beyond the nice refreshing walk up and the thrill of rocketing down the mountain on 2 x wooden slats , and used their brains to better technology , which would better their performances which would then open up new frontiers for further design improvements , and , yes , wait for it , better performance , the thrill of discovering and pushing the envelope to create new challenges to man and equipment , but of course , some stayed the old course and were content to plagiarize past performances and equipment , they are called the Status Quo , and good luck to them in their pursuit of mediocrity , but for some of us, whats around the next corner or headland , is more important than just living someone elses dream!

so, get the skis out when it's 3 foot go find your own space and knock yourself out cowboy. Add motorised propulsion and the sky is the limit.......

take paddling out of surfboards and you could no doubt ride some pretty far out equipment.

Doubt it would have much applicability to surfboards you need to paddle to catch a wave on. In fact, you just might end up ditching the surfboard altogether and modifying the ski to act as the wave-riding device.

I think the snowskiing analogy is lame unless you want .....what?

If you take a good hard look at where the progression has really happened....well, guys were doing solid top to bottom carving towing in at Jaws 20 years ago......

but big wave paddle-in surfing has truly progressed beyond what it once was, and the limits are getting smashed/reset on a yearly basis.

The keyword is 'limits'.

I reckon we've seen the biggest leaps in paddle in the last deccade, but it's slowing down now. A human can only paddle so fast, like a sprinter can only run so fast. Soon 100 metre runners will be judged in increments of 1/1000's if they aren't already. I think one day and not in the distant future there will become a ceiling on the biggest wave that can be paddled. Maneuvres maybe and tube rides will stretch out but that will peak too.

I think tow has a long way to go.

And don't get me wrong, i'm in awe of both camps.

I'm sure the sense of achievement paddling in is incredible but tow ins come from deeper, travel faster, ride deeper barrels and pull more powerful turns. Sounds like better surfing to me!

So why limit it to giant waves then?

it's already granted that motorised propulsion increases performance because the surfboard no longer needs any hydrostatic properties, it can become purely a hydrodynamic planing device.

No doubt guys would be pulling 30 foot airs in 6foot surf using tow-ins.

What holds you back from embracing that future BB?

I also think the advancements in paddling big waves are a little overstated. Obviously it's a whole dffferent ball-game compared to when people were riding Waimea 30 odd years ago but nowadays I don't think the leaps in paddle surfing are as great as people say. It's just that we see more of it. Seems like any big wave sesh that goes down is beamed to our devices within hours of it occurring.

With the advent of the BWWT and combining that with the internet, access to more spots, not to mention just more people haing a go, we are witness to a whole lot more footage of big wave surfing. In my opinion, the act of paddling in to and riding a huge wave hasn't changed that much. People are charging harder and going bigger but in terms of 'surfing' the wave, I can't really see the quantum leap myself. There's exceptions, guys such as Dorian and Albee Layer and a handful of others are blowing minds but there's only so much a surfer can do on a 10ft board.

Free mentioned above from a purists point of view, it's paddle (totally agree) and it takes a special kind of person to get out there and catch one of those monsters on their own steam, but from a performance point of view, in my opinion it\s daylight between tow and paddle.

Once you bring in the jetski you could have celebrity Pe'ahi heats - Zac Efron vs Chris Hemsworth, Gisele Bundchen vs Cameron Diaz.
It would be great.

I guess it's a values thing. I don't think anyone who has ever surfed a wave bigger than 6foot would argue that the hardest thing about riding big surf is paddling in and making the drop.

That to me, is where the big advancements have come in big wave surfing. And those advancements aren't just technical- in terms of the skill and technique and equipment required , best example Shane Dorian and that ridiculous sideways, freefall drop on a massive wave just before the Jaws comp started last year- but conceptual, in terms of what is now considered in the realm of paddle-in surfing.

As LostDoggy said, after two decades of tow surfing Jaws was considered in the unpaddleable realm. Now, it's being paddled every time it breaks.
After two decades of tow surfing people were barely finding the tube....now paddle-in tube-riding in massive surf is totally the norm.

I think those advancements totally eclipse almost any other endeavours in surfing. I can't think of another realm where the limits have been pushed so hard, so quickly.

Of course there are limits, open ocean waves and slabs that just can't paddled. But a spot with a proper line-up like Jaws could see a truly mammoth wave paddled if the ducks lineup....and I think the advancement in what is now thought possible- the psychological expansion like the 4 minute mile- could see someone like Dorian ride it successfully.
And it's not just Dorian, there's a whole heap of chargers there ready to push the limits.

Sure, they won't be surfing big wave guns like shortboards, but in the final analysis- is that really the point?

"Sure, they won't be surfing big wave guns like shortboards, but in the final analysis- is that really the point?"

I love that question. Just what is the point? To do high performance turns and airs with a bit of help or to do it alone have that sense of whatever that brings? I guess everyone's got a different point. I've always preferred the heroics of paddling and the footage from last year blew my mind. But the way Lenny was almost toying with those waves in that clip, was awesome and just as amazing as the paddle guys but for totally different reasons.

I think they both must be pushing each other. I wonder if the next phase of paddle surfing will be smaller boards with some kind of self-propelled assistance. A little high pressure gas bottle that expels some air at the back of the board with the push of a button to boost the speed of the paddler at the critical time. Then they can paddle on a shorter board. Not a purist approach, but would combine both elements and give paddle ins greater performance. If that's the point.

All good points and a great discussion. For me the drop is the most challenging part of the wave and in many cases the most rewarding, anyway different strokes for different folks. Waimea was considered too big to surf back in the day until da bull decided to take it on back in the late 50''s or early 60's I think. Boards were too long back in the day to even contemplate tryin to catch a wave at pipe, and Supers at J-bay was considered to be too fast to surf so everyone used to surf point back in the day and supers was empty. The times they are a changing. I don't know how the paddle guys even get out at Nazare, talking to Mick he was saying Jarryd and himself had a heck of a time getting back out after each wave ... on the ski ! The shorey is apparently heavy and incredibly hard to penetrate, maybe the paddle from the harbour, bit like what paddle pom did getting to cow a few years back.

The thing I love about JJF is how he surfs an 8ft wave like its 2ft. Go watch any generic air popping reverse throwing clip in small waves and then watch John doing relatively the same thing in critical bigger waves...it's both incredible and unique to him. If this true and a good thing - (opinions welcome) - then why any different when the waves hit 20ft plus? Is the priority performance? Is the change in the way people surf Pipe related to board design ie. shorter, forward volume etc - then why not on big wave equipment? Maximising technology to increase the potential.
Performance and outcomes will never be the defining variables in the argument - it's purely a personal (moral?) judgement on where to draw the line in access. Man and the ocean or man, machine and the ocean.

totally agree.

ah Mr Zen , but the improvements in safety inflatable vests etc is design! The improvement in double foiled fins to go faster, came from Tow.
I agree that safety and life threatening situations have increased the athletes training and their search for faster surfboards to pull into the barrel .
The speed in Tow surfing means you can start to see and use the wave different , and do not have to ride traditional takeoff ,angle get to the channel.
I still believe that there is a limit to paddle and no limits to Tow !

I agree 100% Mr. Sharkman hence a couple of my posts preceding this one. The pinnacle of paddling I think is not too far away. Of course one day some super-human will catch that one wave in history when all the planets align and he (or she) is in the right place at the right moment and it all comes together, then the bar is reset and it will happen again. But IMO those increments are getting smaller and smaller. I reckon we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with what can be achieved by towing and by combining design evolution with performance, literally, the sky's the limit. From a purists standpoint that's anathema to them, but in the cold harsh light of day, that's the reality.

In the cold, harsh light of day the market will decide.

Tow surfing had 20 years in the sun then it became uncool......sponsors, magazine editors and other gatekeepers started backing paddle-in, contests etc etc......where the money went the talent went. Where the talent went, so the design focus , the advancements in safety tech etc etc.......

Will tow surfing become cool again on the back of Kai Lenny's clip? Thats a big maybe.
It might, or it might not.

Have we really reached the limit of human athleticism and psychological endurance ( the ability to stare down the fear and catch a giant wave)........maybe, maybe not. Far as I know, Dorian has only in the last year or two really started training for big wave surfing and the results have been spectacular......
Albee Layer is really only getting started.

We might only be half way up the mountain.

I don't think it's a case of being cool or fashionable. There will always be people willing to push the limits of surfing and design with or without cameras.