2022 Election
man buns and uber woke are one and the same...
a passing phase
you would hope
freeride76 wrote:I don't know how to parse the mood for climate change action in the electorate.
Obviously in Syd/Bris/Melbourne it's a vote winner.
In the Federal seat of Page, arguably the area of Aus most affected by climate change, and which includes Lismore and Ballina (as well as Nimbin), National Kevin Hogan was returned to office with an increased share of the primary vote.
The Nationals have campaigned against net zero.
i reckon climate change has been totally overstated as a motivating factor
of course if climate change is your thing, you are going to attribute the election outcome to that
just like labor attribute their win to whatever they're offering - which includes climate change
but really, people were just sick and tired of morrison and his totally corrupted government
the cunt had to go
the so called 'action' on climate change some are advocating, was well underway despite morrison and co.
seeds wrote:Care to expand on that (edit. Those comments) comment sypkan?
google it
joking seeds
but do google how a wholesome old school striving for 'equality of opportunity' has morphed into a somewhat wayward strive for 'equality of outcome'
the terms are subtle, but some of my studies went into these terms and mantras way before they even became a thing
it's interesting
and it's about good hearted peaople searching for answers, ...but I would argue, the answers they're searching for are more about justifying why affirmative action like policies of the past - that enabled equality of opportunity - have had limited success, and why we are still plagued with similar problems, despite decades of affirmative action policies
this has led to things like the blm narrative, and to a certain extent, the contemporary gender equality narrative, that puts all eggs in one basket with simplistic, all encompassing, false attributions and answers...
this has led to hyper sensitivity about anyone that wants to say... 'hang on a minute, there's more at play here...'
and all these conversations have been shut down by dogmatic, all in, cultists, who see any alternative or chalkenge to 'the narrative' as racist or misoginyst
...with a violent, non compromising, "you're either with us, or against us" response seen as justified for all sorts of shitfuckery...
and if 'equality of outcome' sounds a bit commy compared to the somewhat benign and clearly well intentioned 'equality of opportunity'
well...
What if a man bun has no substance. Does conformity count. Or devalue the individual. Mass apeal or tragic fashion. Care not as long as their happy.
sypkan wrote:freeride76 wrote:I don't know how to parse the mood for climate change action in the electorate.
Obviously in Syd/Bris/Melbourne it's a vote winner.
In the Federal seat of Page, arguably the area of Aus most affected by climate change, and which includes Lismore and Ballina (as well as Nimbin), National Kevin Hogan was returned to office with an increased share of the primary vote.
The Nationals have campaigned against net zero.
i reckon climate change has been totally overstated as a motivating factor
of course if climate change is your thing, you are going to attribute the election outcome to that
just like labor attribute their win to whatever they're offering - which includes climate change
but really, people were just sick and tired of morrison and his totally corrupted government
the cunt had to go
the so called 'action' on climate change some are advocating, was well underway despite morrison and co.
He's gone,ScottyBoy has been and gone
He's Put his hand up for the speakers position at Hillsong
Now Oz has Alby mcKnow nothin as leader
The fans on and the shits coming.
sypkan wrote:joking seeds
Ha I’m with ya now. I don’t frequent this place enough and have the memory of a goldfish so I forget who leans this way or that. Except Indo. That fucker is rabid!!!
Indo’s doppelgänger
TBH, As much as I despise him, I'd love to see Dutton as the next LNP leader.
If ICAC doesn't get him, the next election will annihilate the LNP and put them in even more confusion as to where it is going all wrong.
I hope the ICAC is front and centre when the house next sits
seeds wrote:I hope the ICAC is front and centre when the house next sits
Albo’s set the wheels in motion before he jumped on the plane to Japan.
ps. I don’t think that could be Indo’s doppelgänger. He’s way too tall.
Supafreak wrote:seeds wrote:I hope the ICAC is front and centre when the house next sits
Albo’s set the wheels in motion before he jumped on the plane to Japan.
Here Here
Would like to see a strong ICAC put in place but I'm in two minds about making it retrospective simply in order to pin past LNP ministers. I don't know, just seems petty and a distraction from real business, of which there is a lot to be taken care of.
Everyone knows the last LNP cabinet were a bunch of incompetent, and possibly corrupt, kooks but I can't see what benefit looking backwards does.
Geez I have to disagree with that. We get arrested for past crimes as a pleb don’t we. It has to be that tough to clean up the shit so the people get much much better in future no matter what your political leanings
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:Why should the economy be the main focus? I thought you said we were in the best possible economic position possible and that life had never been richer, easier and more stable?
Now you’re saying that we might all be plunged into poverty ?
What do you think the ALP will do differently to the LNP which will damage the economy so greatly? A $1 an hour wage increase for a couple of hundred thousand Aussies?
Yes the last 30 years the economy has been extremely healthy unemployment falling now at all time low and interest rates falling been at historic lows, building industry and real estate market very healthy, so many positives, but people are clearly taking all this for granted thinking it will always be this way and that the economy is not important.
But nothing last forever, you can't have good times forever and there are a lot of signs things are changing inflation rising, interest rates rising, we are going into times of uncertainty economically, when the economy should be the main focus.
Thats not to say we shouldn't or cant act on climate change or other issues, but it needs to be a balanced, sensible measured approach, not a full on ideological based one like you see with the Greens. (and seems the Teals have too)
We have seen the damage the influence of Greens can have under Rudd when he lost control of borders and we had 20K people arrive in one year, the effects of that stuff up has cost billions and been a complete ongoing mess.
So yeah the less influence the Greens and Teals have the better hence why id prefer a Labor majority government.
BTW. I know is not just me that feels this way and has these concerns, I'm currently doing a job for a lovely Indian couple, semi retired in their 60's (he was a train driver but now works part time helping younger people like a jobs councillor or something) first thing they asked me this morning was how i felt about the election result, i try to avoid politics with clients so just said, hmm not really the result i would have preferred, which was like a green light for them to tell me exactly what they thought, every single thought and concern I've had is exactly how they feel, we were in totally agreement on everything.
To be honest it was kind of a surprise that they had such string conservative views, as last week, he was telling me how hard it was when he came to Australia in the 70s to be a person of colour and said his kids had a hard time in the 90s at school and never felt like Australians. (although a comment or two about Dan Andrews did make me think hmmm)
sypkan wrote:joking seeds
but do google how a wholesome old school striving for 'equality of opportunity' has morphed into a somewhat wayward strive for 'equality of outcome'
the terms are subtle, but some of my studies went into these terms and mantras way before they even became a thing
it's interesting
and it's about good hearted peaople searching for answers, ...but I would argue, the answers they're searching for are more about justifying why affirmative action like policies of the past - that enabled equality of opportunity - have had limited success, and why we are still plagued with similar problems, despite decades of affirmative action policies
this has led to things like the blm narrative, and to a certain extent, the contemporary gender equality narrative, that puts all eggs in one basket with simplistic, all encompassing, false attributions and answers...
this has led to hyper sensitivity about anyone that wants to say... 'hang on a minute, there's more at play here...'
and all these conversations have been shut down by dogmatic, all in, cultists, who see any alternative or chalkenge to 'the narrative' as racist or misoginyst
...with a violent, non compromising, "you're either with us, or against us" response seen as justified for all sorts of shitfuckery...
and if 'equality of outcome' sounds a bit commy compared to the somewhat benign and clearly well intentioned 'equality of opportunity'
well...
and, just to make that jargon waffle a little easier to understand...
one could (simplisticly) explain the stances of the political spectrum of social issues with these terms, starting at...
equality
equality of opportunity
equality of outcome
i'll let you attach the labels
One thing a strong ICAC will do is keep everyone in line from here on in . Investigating to far back would possibly be a waste of money . What happens when ICAC uncovers blatant corruption and shitfuckery? Are those involved then charged and face court ? What was the final results of Glady’s hearing ?
One of the reasons Albo might institute a strong ICAC with a retrospective ambit is because it will be one promise he can fully deliver on.
All the talk of cost of living being one of the main election issues is probably something he can't deliver on.
I drove to Bris yesterday to help my daughter get set up there.
Fuel was just under $2.00 a litre here, thought I would wait to get to QLD.
Was $2.17 a litre there.
A hundred dollar trip to Bris!
That is going to bite for most people and if inflation continues to rise then the RBA will raise rates further.
Short of instigating price controls which he has no mandate for I can't see Albo or the ALP being able to do anything about most cost of living items.
That will be hard to blame on Scomo 6 months down the track.
The ICAC is a big and easy winner for him.
Unless of course it's his Ministers who get caught in the net, which is why he will be keen to look backwards first, to the last govt.
If his ministers get caught great. Clean the whole system up. It’s us who will benefit.
Supafreak wrote:seeds wrote:I hope the ICAC is front and centre when the house next sits
Albo’s set the wheels in motion before he jumped on the plane to Japan.
speaking of dopplegangers...
albo did an amazing impersonation of donald trump as he boarded the plane
Im sure it was unintentional, but the likeness was striking
I agree, a Federal ICAC was my major reason for voting.
sypkan wrote:Supafreak wrote:seeds wrote:I hope the ICAC is front and centre when the house next sits
Albo’s set the wheels in motion before he jumped on the plane to Japan.
speaking of dopplegangers...
albo did an amazing impersonation of donald trump as he boarded the plane
Im sure it was unintentional, but the likeness was striking
Not toilet paper stuck to his shoe?
None of you lot should hold your breath for a strong ICAC. Those thinking LNP ministers will be worried have zero idea how the whole thing works. TOR will be narrow. It will all be for show.
freeride76 wrote:I don't know how to parse the mood for climate change action in the electorate.
Obviously in Syd/Bris/Melbourne it's a vote winner.
In the Federal seat of Page, arguably the area of Aus most affected by climate change, and which includes Lismore and Ballina (as well as Nimbin), National Kevin Hogan was returned to office with an increased share of the primary vote.
The Nationals have campaigned against net zero.
Fascinating isnt it. Given the Carnage up there and the media coverage of anger at the emergency response. Wonder what's going on up there. Meanwhile in Cowper- Conaghan is hanging on by a bees dick with more counting to come.
freeride76 wrote:I agree, a Federal ICAC was my major reason for voting.
is it largely about a yearning for retribution though?
stunet makes a good point, so much to worry about atm, and, an icac will probably achieve fuck all in terms of heads rolling, the system tends to protect its own... across the spectrum!!!
I think it's needed to change practices, but tbh, most of this 'corruption' is just the nature of our current epoch - neoliberalism...
whether it's hunter biden and his questionable renumeration for his 'talents', the oz political class selling us out to china, or big fees and contracts for mates and 'consultants'...
this is the nature of the beast the political class has sold us
Im all for a bit of retributiin though...
and think real change will not come about without it
Roadkill wrote:None of you lot should hold your breath for a strong ICAC. Those thinking LNP ministers will be worried have zero idea how the whole thing works. TOR will be narrow. It will all be for show.
how does it work RK?
freeride76 wrote:I agree, a Federal ICAC was my major reason for voting.
Good on you Steve. I feel this is the main issue to be addressed for Australia. If it is then everyone benefits because our elected will serve not self serve.
Indo
"We have seen the damage the influence of Greens can have under Rudd when he lost control of borders and we had 20K people arrive in one year, the effects of that stuff up has cost billions and been a complete ongoing mess."
Correction, Rudd took the border policy to his election Greens had nothing to do with it.
Sorry to go off course , but , if the nationals have retained more seats than the liberals what’s stopping the next leader of the LNP from being a national ? ……. Come on down Barnaby !
bonza wrote:freeride76 wrote:I don't know how to parse the mood for climate change action in the electorate.
Obviously in Syd/Bris/Melbourne it's a vote winner.
In the Federal seat of Page, arguably the area of Aus most affected by climate change, and which includes Lismore and Ballina (as well as Nimbin), National Kevin Hogan was returned to office with an increased share of the primary vote.
The Nationals have campaigned against net zero.
Fascinating isnt it. Given the Carnage up there and the media coverage of anger at the emergency response. Wonder what's going on up there. Meanwhile in Cowper- Conaghan is hanging on by a bees dick with more counting to come.
Seemed like there was a lot of heat and noise over it.
As good as it would be for ICAC to look back, how far back would be far enough? Will it actually achieve anything by going back in time?
For me, as long as it is from now forward, at least it will hold all accountable and keep them in line. It hopefully will make them look twice at what they are doing and do it in the best interests of the country and it's people for a change.
You're probably right there Fitzy.
"As good as it would be for ICAC to look back, how far back would be far enough? Will it actually achieve anything by going back in time?"
far enough to get rudd and co. selling us out too!
probably no, but it'll feel good watching people squirm
stunet wrote:Would like to see a strong ICAC put in place but I'm in two minds about making it retrospective simply in order to pin past LNP ministers. I don't know, just seems petty and a distraction from real business, of which there is a lot to be taken care of.
Everyone knows the last LNP cabinet were a bunch of incompetent, and possibly corrupt, kooks but I can't see what benefit looking backwards does.
Understand the sentiment Stu but many are still serving in the parliament making it retrospective unavoidable IMHO
For sure an ICAC should be retrospective. It should be empowered to prosecute any historical criminality to the extent of the statute of limitations. Got to burn the whole thing down. Ministers need to go to gaol.
The ICAC is the only legitimate broadscale point of difference between the ALP and the LNP. If the ALP are in power they may as well be empowered to improve the country.
On ICAC - the biggest problem in this country is blatant pork barrelling. Even many citizens think it's ok to 'put money into an electorate to win it at the election time.' It is true that providing more funds to the electorate will create a perception of growth and will, therefore, reward the incumbent.
But what is also more true is that the underlying business case needs to be superior when rated against other opportunities. When that doesn't happen the outcome is a subpar return on the investment from the public purse. And in some cases, the reason behind these decisions is corruption.
So for me, ICAC needs to be a body that will:
1) Clearly define, manage and keep up to date a definition of what a good business case looks like
2) Define and maintain ranking criteria for projects nationwide. Make the ladder board transparent to the public with real applications, approved, unapproved and pending.
3) Set clear guidelines and repercussions about what happens when unsatisfactory business cases were awarded funding.
4) Conduct an investigation when 3) is breached and follow the case until a criminal indictment is raised by Attorney General (well, the responsible party under this umbrella)
In addition to these 4, I would also like to see:
5) ICAC to be a review and signatory body that has final approval for projects above $xxx size (small, larger, depending on resourcing capabilities). If the case doesn't meet the standards they have the power to reject it.
If we do all of this Australia will shoot up in transparency rankings. Some of these might have guidelines but it's all scattered and we as the public have no idea who is responsible for what. My proposal would obviously have a negative impact on ministerial powers so many would fight it (especially no 5).
And it's not like there is no precedent for something like this. Remember AEC? The election has just finished, are we fighting over it? Over its integrity? Like in the US? No, because we trust the system.
The allocation of funds from the public purse should be the same. And if done properly, public trust and confidence will go up.
Pork barrelling isn’t even in the top ten biggest political issues in Australia. At least with pork barrelling the taxpayer’s funds are flowing to the taxpayers. Instead of half a billion dollars to a shell company with an office located in a shack at Kangaroo Island.
The only complaint you could level at pork barrelling is that it somehow subverts democracy. Considering that the LNP pork barrelled billions and still lost the election , it makes even that complaint appear unsubstantiated.
I don’t love the idea of pork barrelling but it’s certainly not an existential threat to our way of life . Unlike the blatant corruption and the neoliberal ideology.
Seems like you just read the first line.
My proposal would clearly cover a shell company with a shack on Kangaroo Island.
Anyhoo, my favourite moment from the last nine years:
This played out in early June 2017 while driving west for some desert therapy. No stereo so I got 24rs straight of news channels and I'm totally au fait with the politics of the day, in particular the Finkel Review, a govt commissioned report into the energy market.
Every thirty minutes I'm listening to updates, each commentator commenting, the issue turned over and studied from every angle and it's predicted to be an enormous body of work, must've taken the Chief Scientist months of research and labour.
Sun's rising and I'm gunning past Iron Knob as the report is dropped. Twenty minutes later I hear an interview with ex-PM and current backbencher Tony Abbott who rejects the Finkel Review.
Asked if he's read the contents of it, Abbott says no, he hasn't - yet he rejects it anyway.
Classic.
I focus wrote:Indo
"We have seen the damage the influence of Greens can have under Rudd when he lost control of borders and we had 20K people arrive in one year, the effects of that stuff up has cost billions and been a complete ongoing mess."
Correction, Rudd took the border policy to his election Greens had nothing to do with it.
Obviously to keep the Greens happy behind the scene deals etc thats politics
bonza wrote:Roadkill wrote:None of you lot should hold your breath for a strong ICAC. Those thinking LNP ministers will be worried have zero idea how the whole thing works. TOR will be narrow. It will all be for show.
how does it work RK?
TOR are set for a very narrow band...so any investigation outcome is already known. The ALP won't go after any LNP ministers because if they do when the LNP gets back in they will spitfully set ICAC onto ALP ministers.
Neither party wants an ICAC to expose the rorting and corruption as all parties are equally as bad as each other, and they know it...kind of an unwritten rule to keep the status quo.
Most of the public would be staggered at how dodgy the canberra club really is.
Have a look at ASPEN medical and the contracts for PPE they got, and their management of aged care facilities.
It will be like the royal commission into banking..it exposed how dodgy they all are but in the end after a lot of hand wringing and a few fines no one was really held accountable. Same goes for the royal commission into aged care...again, many were exposed as dodgy as fuck greedy pricks...but no one was really held accounatble.
Doing something morally reprehensible is not doing something illegal. You can be sure legally these govt members cover their asses.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t an independent ICAC choose what and who it investigates ? Isn’t that what the I stands for in ICAC ?
One more thing about the election: the cooker/UAP vote completely collapsed.
Protest votes went to Greens/teals for the most part apart from a few QLD seats.
freeride76 wrote:One more thing about the election: the cooker/UAP vote completely collapsed.
Protest votes went to Greens/teals for the most part apart from a few QLD seats.
There is a fantastic article by Matt Kean that mentions this (amongst other things) in relation to the Liberal Party. Some are calling for Liberals to go further right. This is complete nonsense as none of the votes lost went further to the right like UAP. Quite the contrary, they went closer to the center and normalcy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/23/liberals-still-in-...
Supafreak wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t an independent ICAC choose what and who it investigates ? Isn’t that what the I stands for in ICAC ?
Look at this case rgarding RMS staff. It's not all about MPs, it's about anyone signing off on public money release. There are robust tender processes that need to be followed. You can't just release money. But unfortunately those engaging in the corruption find a way which is why ICAC is required.
From the below link, it talks about the manipulaiton of the tender:
'Mr Soliman assisted Novation to be appointed to the Heavy Vehicle Maintenance Panel and helped manipulate tender processes in Novation’s favour. He misused his position to favour Novation by manipulating RMS’s processes for a tender worth over $2 million for the procurement of 125 portable weigh scales, and for a tender worth over $7 million for the procurement of 425 portable weigh scales and 70 chargers. Altogether, Novation was corruptly awarded work totalling over $10.9 million.
Between January 2017 and August 2018, Mr Soliman also favoured the company of another friend, Ali Hamidi, who owned AZH Consulting Pty Ltd. Mr Soliman arranged for over $1.3 million in contracts to be awarded to AZH, to procure equipment and conduct studies and trials.'
https://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2022-media-relea...
@flollo , thanks for that link , it answers a question I posted earlier today .
freeride76 wrote:One more thing about the election: the cooker/UAP vote completely collapsed.
Protest votes went to Greens/teals for the most part apart from a few QLD seats.
Re Clive the caarnt, "100 million spent for a 1% swing and absolutely no seats. Imagine if this bloated, odious windbag spent the combined expenditure, this and last election, 170 million, on worthwhile projects, or even paying his employees properly." - ML
I would be all for capping HOR candidate campaign expenditure to eliminate this ridiculous waste of money and space.
I wonder if Craig Kelly actually thought he might become PM? A bit over-cooked I reckon.
.