2022 Election
Vic Local wrote:Scumo just got booed at the Bathurst 1000. Ouch. Looks like the motor heads have been paying attention.
That’s a surprise. Concerning for the LNP strategists, especially as that’s the demographic he’s been courting hard. In NSW too, which has been considered safe (ish) for them.
velocityjohnno wrote:Yep it was Gladys' response, ignoring Chant, that let it spread and sank Vic for a final time. The sinking is still going on while NSW recovers, which is really sad and I wonder if Vic is just unusually cursed or unlucky after being the only place in the western world to put an outbreak down to zero.
You can see it here
https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC_2021.html
and honestly it looks like it could take off again just as easily. That's LNP decisions not to act that occurred midyear. Bring on the election.
Your link clearly shows that lockdowns dont work for Delta despite Vic being under lockdown from Aug 15th even with curfews numbers still rose very fast all the way until almost October 15th.
It was only when vaccination rates hit a certain point that things became under control.
It's clear proof that its irrelevant what NSW would have done Delta was always going to blow up, the whole narrative VL is banging on about above is now outdated with the beauty of hindsight
Vic put down a smaller delta wave just before the removalists one. Perth put down a delta wave
NT too
etc
etarip wrote:Vic Local wrote:Scumo just got booed at the Bathurst 1000. Ouch. Looks like the motor heads have been paying attention.
That’s a surprise. Concerning for the LNP strategists, especially as that’s the demographic he’s been courting hard. In NSW too, which has been considered safe (ish) for them.
Australia’s very own “Let’s go Brandon!” moment.
Scummocchio is a political dead man walking.
Where do you start unpacking how truly unhinged the national party is? They are basically a pack of drunks, chancers, and conspiracy theorists holding the government to ransom on so many issues.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/05/nationals-senator...
The drunken violent Senator in this story is being replaced by someone even worse. Christ almighty they are awful.
indo-dreaming wrote:velocityjohnno wrote:Yep it was Gladys' response, ignoring Chant, that let it spread and sank Vic for a final time. The sinking is still going on while NSW recovers, which is really sad and I wonder if Vic is just unusually cursed or unlucky after being the only place in the western world to put an outbreak down to zero.
You can see it here
https://chrisbillington.net/COVID_VIC_2021.html
and honestly it looks like it could take off again just as easily. That's LNP decisions not to act that occurred midyear. Bring on the election.
Your link clearly shows that lockdowns dont work for Delta despite Vic being under lockdown from Aug 15th even with curfews numbers still rose very fast all the way until almost October 15th.
It was only when vaccination rates hit a certain point that things became under control.
It's clear proof that its irrelevant what NSW would have done Delta was always going to blow up, the whole narrative VL is banging on about above is now outdated with the beauty of hindsight
From an outsiders view it looked more like the Vics had lockdown exhaustion and hence poor compliance leading to uncontrolled spread.
Maybe it could be a bit of a factor as yeah people were over lockdowns and not giving a fuck, thats the problem when the measures implemented are over the top.
indo-dreaming wrote:Maybe it could be a bit of a factor as yeah people were over lockdowns and not giving a fuck, thats the problem when the measures implemented are over the top.
So let me get this straight.
Victoria knocked a delta wave on the head, then a few months later the Gladys outbreak spread to Vic and it spread very quickly largely due to removalists being fuckwits. Victoria had woeful vaccination rates due to Scumo's fuck up, and somehow Gladys, Scumo, and the dickhead removalists aren't to blame. All along it was Andrews' fault because he introduced health measures that were successful in the past.
ID, your ability to shift blame is up their with Scumo's. In fact I think you actually out do him at blame shifting. That takes a special talent..
Yep lockdown exhaustion was a factor in Vic finally going under. Now Vic gets to have it every single day. It's an interesting point that Indo made that only when vaccination rates reached a level that it got under control. It could be said to be true that the vaccinations have greatly lessened chance of hospitalisation etc, but at the same time, look at the chart in the link, R(Eff) hovers around 1 and it could go either way, and in this respect it's not yet under control here. WA (bless their socks) rate Vic as extreme risk, their highest level in the nation. The vaccines have been said to be 'leaky' ie, you can still get it and transmit it in some cases - and this is why other countries are still going to use restrictions, even lockdowns, when yet more waves hit. Much better to have none of it on a big island in the first place, and stopping transmission stops it properly.
SA and QLD also put down outbreaks which were delta iirc.
velocityjohnno wrote:Yep lockdown exhaustion was a factor in Vic finally going under. Now Vic gets to have it every single day. It's an interesting point that Indo made that only when vaccination rates reached a level that it got under control. It could be said to be true that the vaccinations have greatly lessened chance of hospitalisation etc, but at the same time, look at the chart in the link, R(Eff) hovers around 1 and it could go either way, and in this respect it's not yet under control here. WA (bless their socks) rate Vic as extreme risk, their highest level in the nation. The vaccines have been said to be 'leaky' ie, you can still get it and transmit it in some cases - and this is why other countries are still going to use restrictions, even lockdowns, when yet more waves hit. Much better to have none of it on a big island in the first place, and stopping transmission stops it properly.
SA and QLD also put down outbreaks which were delta iirc.
" Now Vic gets to have it every single day"
And thank god for that, the best thing that ever happened during Covid was it getting out of control, and fast tracking everything.
You really think its realistic or a positive thing to live separated from the world like 2020-21 trying to keep some virus out???
Fuck that, especially with a crazy power hungry dictator like Dan in power.
I doubt we would have got such high vaccination rates without both the threat of the virus and the blackmailing of not being open up until 70-80% vaccination rates
The vaccines do seem to work for a period, but as we know the efficiency fades over time.
We have also seen in other countries like India and Indonesia, waves naturally burn out when large amounts of the population get infected, but yeah there is toll for this approach.
This in the comments section of The Age this morning referencing Morrison’s photo op at Bathurst yesterday ...
” The PM wasn’t driving as per usual, he was being a passenger and someone else was carrying him”.
Or this
“Car racing a good analogy for this govt.
Lots of money spent, lots of noise made and they’re just gone around in circles”.
Vic Local wrote:Where do you start unpacking how truly unhinged the national party is? They are basically a pack of drunks, chancers, and conspiracy theorists holding the government to ransom on so many issues.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/05/nationals-senator...
The drunken violent Senator in this story is being replaced by someone even worse. Christ almighty they are awful.
Not quite here yet though... give it an election cycle or 2. :(
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/05/republican-thomas-massie...
Andy-mac,
The fuckwits have been here for a while:
The song was produced by Bill Chambers father of Kasey, I believe.
Lee's Wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Lee_(hunter)
God help us.
A Salty Dog wrote:Andy-mac,
The fuckwits have been here for a while:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
The song was produced by Bill Chambers father of Kasey, I believe.
Lee's Wiki page : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Lee_(hunter)
God help us.
FFS,
Dangerous pathetic people....
Only gun needed in Oz is something over 7'2 in certain parts........
Scotty needs to pull his head out of his arse
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-06/prime-minister-pushes-for-gladys-...
Tell us what you really think Jordan.... :)
indo-dreaming wrote:@VL
We already know how useless Labor has been in Victoria during Covid with the highest infection and death rate in Australia and even clocking up the worlds longest lockdown (no easy feat), let's not even talk about the jobs and business destroyed.
Now imagine that on a national scale.
And you want to talk about reckless spending, as we know Australia is approaching one of the highest vaccination rates in the world.
But remember Albo wanting to pay people $300 each to get the Covid vaccine?
Imagine how pointless that money would have been
There is about 20 millions people in Australia over 18
Now 20 million X $300 = $6,000,000,000 (six billion)
We dont know how many would have got vaccinated but 4 to 5 billion wasted would have been realistic .
And that figure could have been bigger if they paid people under 18.
indo...if scomo did his job of takeing charge of our quaranteen laws allso gladys regarding the "ruby princess" 1 and 2 yes there were 2 cruises where ppl had covid that they were aware of and not let the hords disembark enmass to ALL states then vic would'nt of been in the situation it was.
stop victim blameing victoria for lnp gross incompetence.
happyppl wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:@VL
We already know how useless Labor has been in Victoria during Covid with the highest infection and death rate in Australia and even clocking up the worlds longest lockdown (no easy feat), let's not even talk about the jobs and business destroyed.
Now imagine that on a national scale.
And you want to talk about reckless spending, as we know Australia is approaching one of the highest vaccination rates in the world.
But remember Albo wanting to pay people $300 each to get the Covid vaccine?
Imagine how pointless that money would have been
There is about 20 millions people in Australia over 18
Now 20 million X $300 = $6,000,000,000 (six billion)
We dont know how many would have got vaccinated but 4 to 5 billion wasted would have been realistic .
And that figure could have been bigger if they paid people under 18.
indo...if scomo did his job of takeing charge of our quaranteen laws allso gladys regarding the "ruby princess" 1 and 2 yes there were 2 cruises where ppl had covid that they were aware of and not let the hords disembark enmass to ALL states then vic would'nt of been in the situation it was.
stop victim blameing victoria for lnp gross incompetence.
Um dude you might want to put the crack pipe down.
Ruby princess dates back to mid March to early April had nothing at all to do with Victorias major wave that resulted in almost 800 deaths, for perspective Ruby Princess was right at the start of the pandemic most countries closed borders around the week of the 20th March, pretty much the same time Ruby princess docked.
Victoria's major wave from complete bungle of quarantine that resulted in close to 800 deaths, you know the one where even an enquiry couldn't find who made the major decision to hire some dodgy security firm happened in June, months latter.
Here is a graph for perspective
Ha ha victim blaming?
You cant be serious Dan is far far from sa victim quite the opposite, the people of Victoria are victims of his incompetence, almost 800 dead are victims as are people like my cousin who lost his business from the lockdowns.
Maybe you need to read this as your memory seems cooked.
"Victoria's disastrous hotel quarantine program responsible for 768 deaths, inquiry hears
It’s being blamed for 768 deaths, 18,000 infections and an entire state being sent into a devastating lockdown, so how did Victoria’s disastrous hotel quarantine program go so wrong?
The controversial program made international headlines when private security guards breached infection control, which allowed the virus to spread into the community, creating a devastating second wave.
Here’s a timeline of how it all played out."
https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/victorias-disastrous-hot...
Indo, how many times does that $6 billion (of unspent money) go into the actual $40 billion the LNP handed out to profitable companies with no clawback method?
#bettereconomicmanagers
#myarsehole
stunet wrote:Indo, how many times does that $6 billion go into the $40 billion the LNP handed out to profitable companies with no clawback method?
#bettereconomicmanagers
#myarsehole
All you Labor lovers would whinge whatever LNP did, it's not even worth arguing about, it's dammed if you do dammed if you don't.
End of the day though id much rather hear you guys whinge and people keep their jobs and companies not go bust and the economy keep ticking over and i still have work.
Than the LNP not spend money keeping business afloat and the economy going to shit and still having to listen to you guys whinge and not have work.
You are such a clown ID.
You scream and carry on about the Victorian lockdown making Dan Andrews your public enemy number 1. Sure the lockdown was shit but it was effective. Vic took an economic hit to stop the virus spreading to other states. NSW on the other hand, ran a botched lockdown. Delta spread all over the country and to NZ, and you think Gladys is some kind of hero.
Gladys believed her own "gold standard" bullshit, and handed the rest of the country a giant economic shit sandwich. And you reckon she's a master chef.
@VL
You can paint it how you want but the facts and stats DONT lie.
Reality is Gladys did a very good job until the last hurdle despite having much more incoming arrivals and a larger more dense population.
Dan on the other hand didnt even jump the first hurdle and mowed every hurdle down.
Deaths
Vic= 1,378
NSW= 630
Actually deaths in Victoria outnumber all other states combined, same deal with total case numbers there has been more cases in Victoria than all other states combined..
Victoria longest number of days locked down in the WORLD.
I mean FFS you cant get worse than that, not just Australia but the world.
The lockdown might have been effective, but it's like praising someone for putting out your burning house when it's burnt to the ground, after they light it on fire.
indo-dreaming wrote:stunet wrote:Indo, how many times does that $6 billion go into the $40 billion the LNP handed out to profitable companies with no clawback method? #bettereconomicmanagers #myarsehole
All you Labor lovers would whinge whatever LNP did, it's not even worth arguing about, it's dammed if you do dammed if you don't. End of the day though id much rather hear you guys whinge and people keep their jobs and companies not go bust and the economy keep ticking over and i still have work. Than the LNP not spend money keeping business afloat and the economy going to shit and still having to listen to you guys whinge and not have work.
It's odd the things I remember...
A while back, in your less dogged days, you researched Labor's and Liberal's economic credentials over the years and found that they were pretty much on par with each other. The notion cruelling the cliched line about Labor being profligate with money.
Ironically, the last few years have shown it's the LNP who are profligate with taxpayer money - to a degree far beyond anything seen in Oz history - yet like a Concrete Conservative you still say Labor are the wanton spenders.
Vic Local wrote:You are such a clown ID.
You scream and carry on about the Victorian lockdown making Dan Andrews your public enemy number 1. Sure the lockdown was shit but it was effective. Vic took an economic hit to stop the virus spreading to other states. NSW on the other hand, ran a botched lockdown. Delta spread all over the country and to NZ, and you think Gladys is some kind of hero.
Gladys believed her own "gold standard" bullshit, and handed the rest of the country a giant economic shit sandwich. And you reckon she's a master chef.
geez you know how to spin it...
the point is dan fucked up with his extreme version of neoliberalism security solution.... (from a labor government no less!!) ...endangering other states.... ....but for you, your version... the lockdown was 'shit' but 'vicco was taking a hit for the other states'...
now that there is some gold standard...
spin and bullshit basically
as to gladys... what happened to your version... your prediction... of NSW desperately opening up despite cases going up and hospitals feeling pressure?
oh that's right, it didn't happen... because NSW got on top of it...
again...
meanwhile in vicco, with dan your hero... they opened up, despite cases booming, and hospitals feeling the pressure...
something only a liberal 'incompetent' NSW government would do apparently...
according to you, and your now legendary litany of nostradamus like anti predictions
you're a fucking clown
how you think your dan's minion version of events has any merit, and you have the right to shout it at everyone, every day, is just mind blowing
hilariously so
clown
king of clowns
Here's the thing ID, you'd sook even harder if Andrews took the Gladys option and spread the virus all over the country. If Gladys took the Andres option and implemented a hard lockdown saving the other states, you'd say she was a hero.
There's literally no option that Andrews could take that would please you. you're just like the Vic LNP. Always crying, zero solutions.
Anyway this phone poll from today is interesting, United Australia Party ahead of the Greens in Victoria state voting poll.
"Anyway this phone poll from today is interesting, United Australia Party ahead of the Greens in Victoria state voting poll."
haha
in melbourne no less....
bahahahahaha
and ... oh gaaaawd... cue the outrage monger...
again...
News Corp land line poll....
Mmmmm propaganda machine kicks into gear. Palmer, has he paid his Qld workers yet the fat prick? If he gets the Rona which is coming and he not vaxxed he might not make it til election.
Only one Poll counts .....
and, look at those 2018 numbers!
that's where the real story is
despite dan's batter boy rattling on...
'10 points' ... 'vic liberals a cooked lobster' ... ' nazis' ... 'white supremacy' ... blah blah blah...
Yet more bullshit from @info.
You know because we have had this conversation many times over the last 2 years the deaths you refer to are mostly in aged care. You also know that aged care is a federal govt responsibility. You know that it is the federal govt that approves, regulates, accredits, funds/defunds and monitors aged care facilities principally via the federal govts legislated prescribed outcome standards including INFECTION CONTROL. You know infection control includes establishing polices, procedures and standards to guard residents against things like COVID.
Fuck, you slimy piece of sea-square you already know all this yet you persevere with your bullshit ...........
You already know that despite the early and tragic death of residents in NSW nursing homes the federal govt did nothing to instruct its age care accreditation agency to warn, prepare, instruct its aged care facilities about COVID. You also know the federal govt age care minister and his senior health minister did not know of any plans by anyone anywhere to prepare facilities against COVID.
Now you love blaming the state govts for these deaths you puss filled shithead. In fact it was the state govts that got left to clean up Morrison's mess in aged care facilities including a family member of mine who is a highly trained acute care nurse who worked in the worse of conditions for days (12+ hrs per day in full PPE) and who needed counselling to help her deal with what she saw - confused residents in shit and piss covered clothing locked in their rooms, not fed or hydrated for days, needing the fire bridge to smash open the doors because the last thing the federal govt staff did before deserting the ship was to lock people in their rooms.
The state govts and the highly trained / elite nursing staff that worked in these facilities need our praise not more bullshit from the likes of you. You're just a miserable lying piece of shit now FO>
It's getting heated but I'll try to reply to Indo, above.
"And thank god for that, the best thing that ever happened during Covid was it getting out of control, and fast tracking everything.
You really think its realistic or a positive thing to live separated from the world like 2020-21 trying to keep some virus out???
Fuck that, especially with a crazy power hungry dictator like Dan in power.
I doubt we would have got such high vaccination rates without both the threat of the virus and the blackmailing of not being open up until 70-80% vaccination rates
The vaccines do seem to work for a period, but as we know the efficiency fades over time.
We have also seen in other countries like India and Indonesia, waves naturally burn out when large amounts of the population get infected, but yeah there is toll for this approach."
I can't say letting it get out of control was a good thing, I'm too close to the vulnerable to say that. But now it is, so I'll tread the best path I can.
I do think it's realistic to separate during a pandemic. From history, we know the 1919 flu was around for 3 years or so. If this is allegorical, then we've opened too early. I say this knowing that as a virus evolves it selects for greater infectiousness and less lethality, which is something we would want to see. I also say this assuming it's a real virus and not a giant hoax. Is it positive? To be separated from the world during a pandemic? Maybe; yes. There would be some positives.
Agree on power hungry - the legislation concentrates power in the hands of the politicians. Not good.
Agree also that the threat got vaccination rates higher, fast. Another kettle of worms opens on whether this is a good thing, as seen on these forums. Agree on vaccines working and seeming to have a limited time.
India/Indo, natural burn out and toll - yes, there is. The question is, if you could avoid it, would you? I'm an empath, so I will always select for preserving life; it's also in my training to do so and was in my professional and post-professional career to be this way. Not all people think this way and that's just how we are as people.
@ Guy
Yes we have all heard your lame arse excuses, and they dont stack up, as we all know and ive told you 100 times, if Dan didn't screw up quarantine there would be no Covid running rampant in 2020.
You know kind of like how the other states managed things for the majority of the time.
indo-dreaming wrote:@ Guy
Yes we have all heard your lame arse excuses, and they dont stack up, as we all know and ive told you 100 times, if Dan didn't screw up quarantine there would be no Covid running rampant in 2020.
You know kind of like how the other states managed things for the majority of the time.
Bullshit ya goose
Gladys and scummo fucked up
Typical lnp stooge
@indo , who was responsible for the ruby princess f- up ?
@velocityjohnno
Each to their own, but i think the outbreak happened at the right time, it helped push vaccine numbers up and it took away the need to say okay we are now opening up to the world, i think that decision would have become really political and divisive and got real messy.
Probably even a good thing it happened in NSW, if it happened in Vic, Dan probably would have tried to lock down harder thinking he could get numbers to zero.
indo-dreaming wrote:@velocityjohnno
Each to their own, but i think the outbreak happened at the right time, it helped push vaccine numbers up and it took away the need to say okay we are now opening up to the world, i think that decision would have become really political and divisive and got real messy.
Probably even a good thing it happened in NSW, if it happened in Vic, Dan probably would have tried to lock down harder thinking he could get numbers to zero.
Wow, so when Gladys stuffed up massively, it's a good thing. FFS ID, it's all getting a bit silly with you mate.
Imagine if I tried that logic with the Vic outbreak. "It was actually a good thing because it encouraged Scotty to buy vaccines." You'd piss your self laughing. Yes mate, I am laughing at you.
Supafreak wrote:@indo , who was responsible for the ruby princess f- up ?
Id expect Gladys or Scomo.
But as i pointed out the incident happened right at the start of the pandemic pretty much the same week the world locked down, and it did not result in thousands of cases and 800 deaths.
It's completely different to the major fuck up in Victoria that happened months into the pandemic when we had learnt so much more and resulted in almost 800 deaths and contributed to the worlds longest lockdown state in the world.
It's not even worth talking about, its like comparing spilling a drop of beer on the carpet to smashing a bottle of red on the carpet.
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:@indo , who was responsible for the ruby princess f- up ?
Id expect Gladys or Scomo.
But as i pointed out the incident happened right at the start of the pandemic pretty much the same week the world locked down, and it did not result in thousands of cases and 800 deaths.
It's completely different to the major fuck up in Victoria that happened months into the pandemic when we had learnt so much more and resulted in almost 800 deaths and contributed to the worlds longest lockdown state in the world.
It's not even worth talking about, its like comparing spilling a drop of beer on the carpet to smashing a bottle of red on the carpet.
So Ruby princess was excusable because it was at the start of the pandemic but Vic Outbreak was unforgivable because it happened a few months later. What exactly does that make the Sydney outbreak a year after that?
Go to bed ID, you're drunk.
Stop it Indo. You're cracking me up.
No worries Indo, different views and all that. It's now academic. To intervene or let it go.
The really interesting thing would be if you all let me be head central banker or economics minister, I'd let interest rates find their non-intervention levels of somewhere between 6 and 10 percent and crash the entire market and economy so hard from this bubble, businesses would fail in their thousands, but then we'd have price discovery, all the bad debt would be wiped out (so would the overstretched banking system) and we could bounce back with great levels of growth and savings and great employment - after a momentous depression, which is due. I'd have a picture of Paul Volker with a huge cigar on my office wall while I do this. It would be epic.
I think its a bit disingenuous of all above to play such blatant blame games
it was obvous right from the start NSW and VIC were taking very different approaches to outbreaks with vicco going hard, with city / state wide lockdowns and NSW taking a more targeted management approach
one could argue these positions were purely ideoligical, but other states approaches suggest otherwise, as pointed out on the minefield by waleed ally
so while all you guys above (except vj) want to gratuitiously blame your chosen enemies... the reality is, there were different approaches adopted state by state, as is also the case in the US etc.
the debate just comes down to whether dan's hardnut (but somewhat incompetent) aporoach to keep cases at zero was worth 2 years of pain, only to have to face the reality of the virus eventually?
or was gladys' management stategy, that endeavoured to keep the place operating and lives reasonably normal until ready to face the virus a better option?
it's a hard question at the time
...especially at the beginning, as dan's hardnut approach seemed appropriate...
and in contrast, ...gladys' aporoach seemed just flat out irresponsible at times...
but with hindsight, and with the inevitability of facing the virus now upon us.... i know which city I'd rather have been in for the last two years...
by a country mile!!
'So Ruby princess was excusable because it was at the start of the pandemic but Vic Outbreak was unforgivable because it happened a few months later. What exactly does that make the Sydney outbreak a year after that?
Go to bed ID, you're drunk.'
no
vic outbreak is unforgivable because of the use of rent a cop private security and nothing else...
ip inspired rent a cop doing the work of government employees under direction of a labor government!
a bloody disgrace
sypkan, mistakes were obviously made in Melbourne quarantine but that doesn't mean the Vic Govt was entirely to blame for the scale of the outbreak. Quarantine is a federal responsibility which Scumo just shamelessly handballed to the states. This dickhead PM still hasn't built any fit-for purpose facilities despite state govts handing him plans and locations on a platter. Two fucking years and nothing. NOTHING.
Most of the deaths in Vic occurred in private nursing homes, a fed responsibility. Scumo watched covid rip through Sydney aged care homes 3 months earlier and his govt did fuck all to prepare this sector for the obvious onslaught.
I'm happy to forgive early mistakes (yes even the Ruby Princess). What is unforgivable is governments doing nothing when action was obviously required, or failing to learn from others mistakes.
Scumo's handling of the pandemic has been woeful, and the Gladys fuckup was truly pathetic. She learnt nothing from the Victorian experience, she ignored the medical advice, and her arrogance costs the country big time. And the bastards in the LNP are trying to parachute that corrupt arrogant fuck into federal parliament. What a shit show.
"Hotel infectious diseases quarantine"... hmmm what's wrong with that statement?
sypkan wrote:I think its a bit disingenuous of all above to play such blatant blame games
it was obvous right from the start NSW and VIC were taking very different approaches to outbreaks with vicco going hard, with city / state wide lockdowns and NSW taking a more targeted management approach
one could argue these positions were purely ideoligical, but other states approaches suggest otherwise, as pointed out on the minefield by waleed ally
so while all you guys above (except vj) want to gratuitiously blame your chosen enemies... the reality is, there were different approaches adopted state by state, as is also the case in the US etc.
the debate just comes down to whether dan's hardnut (but somewhat incompetent) aporoach to keep cases at zero was worth 2 years of pain, only to have to face the reality of the virus eventually?
or was gladys' management stategy, that endeavoured to keep the place operating and lives reasonably normal until ready to face the virus a better option?
it's a hard question at the time
...especially at the beginning, as dan's hardnut approach seemed appropriate...
and in contrast, ...gladys' aporoach seemed just flat out irresponsible at times...
but with hindsight, and with the inevitability of facing the virus now upon us.... i know which city I'd rather have been in for the last two years...
by a country mile!!
Well said completely nailed it, and yep id know which id choose too.
"Well said completely nailed it, and yep id know which id choose too"
Of course everyone would have preferred Sydney's lockdown compared to Melbourne's.
Sydney of course got to choose their approach BECAUSE Victoria locked down hard. Victorians did the hard yards so the virus didn't spread widely.
Gladys on the other hand didn't offer the rest of the country the same courtesy. She chose a half arsed lockdown, got priority use of vaccines, and spread the damn virus across the country, forcing other jurisdictions to lock down. Victorians did the right thing by the country. Gladys, not so much.
sypkan wrote:I think its a bit disingenuous of all above to play such blatant blame games
it was obvous right from the start NSW and VIC were taking very different approaches to outbreaks with vicco going hard, with city / state wide lockdowns and NSW taking a more targeted management approach
one could argue these positions were purely ideoligical, but other states approaches suggest otherwise, as pointed out on the minefield by waleed ally
so while all you guys above (except vj) want to gratuitiously blame your chosen enemies... the reality is, there were different approaches adopted state by state, as is also the case in the US etc.
the debate just comes down to whether dan's hardnut (but somewhat incompetent) aporoach to keep cases at zero was worth 2 years of pain, only to have to face the reality of the virus eventually?
or was gladys' management stategy, that endeavoured to keep the place operating and lives reasonably normal until ready to face the virus a better option?
it's a hard question at the time
...especially at the beginning, as dan's hardnut approach seemed appropriate...
and in contrast, ...gladys' aporoach seemed just flat out irresponsible at times...
but with hindsight, and with the inevitability of facing the virus now upon us.... i know which city I'd rather have been in for the last two years...
by a country mile!!
So that would be Perth then...
Realistically if Victoria didn't lock down hard at the time the rest of Australia (exception of WA maybe) would have been possibly awash with COVID?
@VL
Obviously Sypkan is talking about the approach of both states from day one.
It's pretty funny really Dan went hard from day one trying to out do the other states you would expect with the outlook if we go harder than them we will do better than them, and the exact opposite happened.
It's almost like there was some god up there watching going, this guy ia nasty piece of work let's screw his plans up.
"Realistically if Victoria didn't lock down hard at the time the rest of Australia (exception of WA maybe) would have been possibly awash with COVID?"
Exactly I Focus. And the LNP had the nerve to politicise the pandemic making Dan Andrews public enemy number 1. Frydenberg was telling everyone Victoria was hurting the national economy when in reality, Vic was taking a big financial hit to protect the national economy.
When Gladys didn't lock down Sydney effectively, spreading the virus to the rest of the country, she was called "gold standard". The LNP bums were cheering the bin chicken on while she bent over and dry arse fucked the entire continent. Now they are trying to parachute the arrogant corrupt scumbag into Federal Parliament. They have no shame.
"So that would be Perth then..."
not really
not at all actually...
you guys are still living in a 2019 world waiting for the warden to let you out. I know it may feel you're winning at something... but trust me, living through facing the virus brings a sense of relief
"...Realistically if Victoria didn't lock down hard at the time the rest of Australia (exception of WA maybe) would have been possibly awash with COVID?"
not really again, SA lived on their doorstep, complete with vicco dickheads running the gauntlet etc. and they did alright...
with a liberal, libertarian, economy rules, right wing premier to boot!
...if ya wanna play that game....
.