2022 Election
indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“
What does right actually stand for that builds /strengthens society?
… but who they oppose: there’s always these false external enemies wrapped up in their politics of exclusion
Um most modern society's and economies are built on conservative principles and ideals
1. Family and family values.
2. Free markets and private ownership
3. Hard work and self responsibly.
3. Individual freedoms
4. Rule of law
6. Pride in ones self, country, tradition and customs
Conservatism is about preserving the best of all these these things and only adjusting things slightly where needed when needed, opposed to thinking anything from the past needs to be broken down and everything constantly changed.
G’day @info, so do you honestly think the vast majority of people left/right wouldn’t believe in your 6 points? Furthermore, if current day conservatism was truly about preserving the best of the past why are so-called conservative politicians in the US, UK, AU and elsewhere trashing the legal and political pillars and conventions that form the glue of a civil society?
My two points highlight (1) we all hold (traditionally defined) conservative views +/- when it comes to family or finances etc and (2) when describing current day far right politics using the term conservative is wrong. The correct word describing current day far right politics is reactionary I.e. opposed to change/maintenance of the status quo.
@indo, nothing wrong with those high-level values but many are not following them. They are following their pockets and attracting attention through cheap populism. Look at family values; Trump is a perfect example. He certainly cared about his family so much that he got them all employed in his administration. That's not rewarding hard work, that is nepotism. So how can he say he aligns with conservative values?
Yeah ok....
Those terms could really be used by anyone.
1. Family and family values.
What are family values???
Very overused term, so by implication if you are not conservative, you have no worthwhile family values?
Locking up a family indefinitely, is that a conservative family value?
Barnaby Joyce was the good family man!
2. Free markets and private ownership.
Privatise profits, socialise loses.
$40 billion to profitable companies, yep freedom and free market.
3. Hard work and self responsibly.
Scomo displayed these characteristics. Actually all LNP government did. Laziest govt in Australia's history.
Don't think conservatives have monopoly on those traits.
3. Individual freedoms
So legalisation of recreational drugs are one of their main agendas? Excellent, prohibition has not worked.
4. Rule of law
Except when it doesn't suit them. Robodebt...
6. Pride in ones self, country, tradition and customs
Which customs, White Australia Policy?
Whose traditions? Indigenous Australians, English heritage, Irish, Indonesian??
Those points are all kind of meaningless.....
Also besides the point as the self appointed Conservatives are not displaying those characteristics.
Typical Labor govt, desperate to bring back the families of ISIS fighters from Syria, we will probably spend about 20 million dollars on each child. Teams of highly paid do- gooder leftie social workers and therapists falling over themselves to provide free housing and 24/7 care. These people will never respect our values and way of life so why should we respect theirs. It's a dog-eat-dog world and we should look after our own first. Labors warped priorities on show again.
GuySmiley wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:GuySmiley wrote:“…. They define themselves, not by why they stand for, but who they oppose.“
What does right actually stand for that builds /strengthens society?
… but who they oppose: there’s always these false external enemies wrapped up in their politics of exclusion
Um most modern society's and economies are built on conservative principles and ideals
1. Family and family values.
2. Free markets and private ownership
3. Hard work and self responsibly.
3. Individual freedoms
4. Rule of law
6. Pride in ones self, country, tradition and customs
Conservatism is about preserving the best of all these these things and only adjusting things slightly where needed when needed, opposed to thinking anything from the past needs to be broken down and everything constantly changed.
G’day @info, so do you honestly think the vast majority of people left/right wouldn’t believe in your 6 points? Furthermore, if current day conservatism was truly about preserving the best of the past why are so-called conservative politicians in the US, UK, AU and elsewhere trashing the legal and political pillars and conventions that form the glue of a civil society?
My two points highlight (1) we all hold (traditionally defined) conservative views +/- when it comes to family or finances etc and (2) when describing current day far right politics using the term conservative is wrong. The correct word describing current day far right politics is reactionary I.e. opposed to change/maintenance of the status quo.
I kind of agree with much of this, because yes our society is based on conservative values and ideals and the system we live under is a conservative system, hence why most people on left/right/centre agree with these points.
In regard to
"so-called conservative politicians in the US, UK, AU and elsewhere trashing the legal and political pillars and conventions that form the glue of a civil society?"
Why do you think this is limited to the right side of politics?
There is examples especially during Covid from all sides of politics world wide, even here in Victoria we saw things stretched or broken.
Yes many of the current go to topics the right are concerned about are reactionary, but only because they are reacting to some very radical ideas and negatives from the far left, what else are they suppose to do, stay silent and let things be trashed?
Many of these things most people dont really support anyway, even certain groups traditionally viewed as being more prone to being left leaning are starting to push back for instance some feminist or lesbians are also up in arms about many aspects of gender related ideology because it's starting to affect them in work places, sporting clubs prisons etc or just kind of devalues their ideology.
indo-dreaming wrote:or just kind of devalues their ideology.
Yeah some Lesbians who really seem like they want to be men yet hate men and have loads of lesbian pride seems to hate "understanding" and "acceptance" of them from the younger generation as they(the youth) seem to be doing these days.
Some people just want to hate or have something or someone to hate.
I dont have a problem with lesbians or gays though just question some of them and behaviors towards being understood.
I have a neighbor who hates Blacks, loves point and shoot army computer games in his late 60's as its like killing "n words" almost realistically.
Yet he seems absurd to me and my friends younger than him.Even to people his own age laugh at him how pathetic his existence is and hatred for made up reasons...but most his age really laugh he lives near a good fishing town and good surf town and loves fishing but never does it..Just brags about how good he is at it...Man with no friends just fellow other pissheads who tolerate him sometimes in one of the local bars here.
Anyway my point is my opinion and bigotry towards lesbians and gays as a youngster is now hated by the youth of today and seen as backward behavior i think.However Dont think i will ever like seeing two men kiss.
Times are changing.
I dont know if ideology was the right word to use, but for example when you believe a man can just identify as a women and is suddenly a women, it's kind of a kick in the face for many feminist women it devalues them as feminist women.
And many lesbian women especially more masculine lesbians in today's world at a young age could have easily been steered down a route of transgenderism instead of them discovering latter in life generally when hit puberty they were just women with more masculine aspects attracted to other women.
That kind of deal.
Ok i understand especially the last point. A psycho lady i hate who caused a lot of trouble in my life and many others has three teenage kids, two other adults but three teenagers. The eldest hit 12 and was convinced he was gay. he even sometimes played out gay behavoiur towards his younger brothers such as licking his younger brothers drawstrings on his cozzies.
Anyway point is he now hit puberty and is completely hetero and doesn't want to know a thing about his silly 12 year old existence and acts. Thinks it was just being a kid.
That sort of thing can ruin lives if taken too seriously or out of context and followed with.
My point is some homo behaviour is becoming so tolerated and accepted lately some of the youth these days seem to want to identify as one when they haven't even found out yet.
Ffs, seriously? Give it a rest guys.
I dont know if i was sounding like a bit of a bigot, i actually had a few gay friends in Sydney and enjoyed their company but just recentlysaw some behaviors in pre-pubescent kids that seems wrong.
“I don’t know if i was sounding like a bit of a bigot”
no you didn’t sound like a bit if a bigot, you sounded like a complete bigot.
I have gay friends…is a common excuse used.
Roadkill wrote:“I don’t know if i was sounding like a bit of a bigot”
no you didn’t sound like a bit if a bigot, you sounded like a complete bigot.
I have gay friends…is a common excuse used.
This might come as a shock. But I agree with roadkill
Ok i apologize again to disgrace swellnet again with bad behavior and bigotry. If you saw what i saw you would understand. Kids confused due to peer pressure of complete exceptence and WOKEness amongst youth peers and school kids, peer pressure into saying its alright so much so that some think they might be trans/gay/lesbian whatever/russian in an aussie body..Its all ok if they are, just no if peers target them as a good subject to manipulate into some piece of work.For some game or agenda.
Heres the lyrics to a band i got into at 18 years old. They were a fat wreck chords signed band so had to be quality punk rock.
However in the lyrics of one song he is basically admitting to trying to rape an 8 year old male friend when he was nearly ten!-here are the shortened lyrics to that song-
I'd like to actively encourage the toughest man
to dance as hard as he can to this, my song
And bring your stupidest friends along.
We wrote this song cause it's fucking boring
To keep spellin out the words that you keep ignoring
And your macho shit won't phase me now
It just makes us laugh
we got your cash, court jester take a bow.
Cause did you know that when I was 9
I tried to fuck a friend of mine
He was 8, then I turned 10.
14 years later it happened again, with another friend
This time it was me on the receiving end
All the fists in the world can't save you now
If you dance to this, you drink to me
And my sexuality
With your hands down my pants by transitive property
Back from groundy again- those lyrics in the mid 90's turned me off that one song, the only song i didnt like on the whole album and then as soon as they came to Aus/cronulla from Canada i went and saw them with a high population of skaters, snowboarders and surfers/bodyboarders lining up..Some talking about only just skimming through the album "less talk more rock" before the gig.
I was expecting some bad vibes once they spoke there gay tales in music, maybe a food fight or possibly something more full on from the Nulla punks who were core to the bone but they were open minded and didnt abuse the band with its obviously gay two singers at the time.One went on his separate way later on and left the more alpha more punk guy to run the band but with the mellower gay guy leaving the band some pretty awesome melodics were soon missing from their albums.In any case "Less talk more rock" by "Propaghandi" is one of the best non 80's punk albums of the 90's with heavy political stance on greed corruption and sincere lyrics about how Politicians act like winning an election makes corrupt politicians act like they won the fucking lottery..
That album helped me accept gay people a lot but still couldn't listen to the song of the lyrics i posted without some hate filled thoughts entering my head when he mentions trying to take advantage of a 2 year younger male kid.
He(the last singer for prop) later in an interview about 2 years ago i watched admitted he regretted many things he did were wrong back in the 90's and early days but mainly speaking out of his turn not listening to smarter people than himself and speaking too smart and out of his depth.
No mention of regretting to try to take advantage of an 8 year old kid though.(when he was nearly 10 himself)
Anyway heres a few of their best tracks.-With lyrics.... Special mention State Lottery and nation states
.
Ps the mellower singers songs are pretty softcore melodic punk and very gay tone in his voice.But he was a gifted song writer for melodies.
Full album without lyrics.
Price was given the inaugural Freedom and Hope award, a prize given to someone who “truly represents the positive future that we aspire to”, CPAC Australia founder Andrew Cooper said. https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/03/jacinta-price-cpac-indigenous-voice...
You mean the same ALP who will initiate and see through the largest mass immigration program in Australia’s history? A Mass immigration program that , by definition, will irreversibly destroy Australia’s environment forever.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/tanya-plibersek-should-seize-the-moment-...
Quote from the article:
“To be blunt, is Plibersek there to protect Australia’s environment or the Labor Party?”
Don’t be ridiculous. The ALP is in power for just two purposes :
1/ Facilitate corporate rape of Australia and Australians
2/ Line the pockets and further the post-political career ambitions of the ALP themselves.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
Supafreak wrote:Price was given the inaugural Freedom and Hope award, a prize given to someone who “truly represents the positive future that we aspire to”, CPAC Australia founder Andrew Cooper said. https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/03/jacinta-price-cpac-indigenous-voice...
Great news, she is such an amazing women, and such a positive role model, trying to deal and bring to light real indigenous issues(especially for women) and there root causes and looking for solutions.
It's great that she is now in the senate and getting a higher profile from the general public and mainstream media and even getting air time on places like ABC and awards like this.
I really hope she goes further in politics she is only 41, extremely driven, extremely smart and as tough as nails, i hope she gets the drive to go further in politics, i know its a long shot and unlikely and only a dream, but how amazing would it be to have her one day as PM, the first women voted in and first indigenous person, that would be amazing.
Italy just got there first women leader voted in another strong conservative women, so it is possible.
Positive role model for who?
Conservative white people who want someone to hide behind so they (hopefully) don't get labelled as racist?
AndyM wrote:Positive role model for who?
Conservative white people who want someone to hide behind so they (hopefully) don't get labelled as racist?
AndyM. Hi. Cant argue with that mate.
Indo-Dreaming . Hi, hope you are well. Cant you read between the lines ?
For a person who handles a lot of information on this platform I’m surprised by your comment, alas, it is your opinion I suppose. A lot of ‘white’ light radiating out of those dark cracks.
What happened to all the far right’s confected rage during the election about transgender athletes dominating women’s sport? You’d thought CPAC would have been all over it but no not a word of indignation was uttered as they quickly moved onto the next external threat to their miserable conservative lives ….. blackfellas. Truly pathetic.
ALP just keeps on lying and rorting and selling out Australians to the international corporations. Democracy in Australia is a sham.
From the highly undervalued Macrobusiness site:
+
Stage 3 tax cuts another gas cartel disaster
By Houses and Holes
It doesn’t do to remember anything in the Australian political economy. It goes against every instinct of the iMSM and our Rum Corps leadership.
Memory equals accountability and we can’t have that.
Today’s debate about Stage 3 tax cuts is a case in point. The original package of cuts, priced at $158bn, only passed the parliament thanks to the signature of Rex Patrick in the senate. He signed on the basis that, in return, Australia would toughen its domestic reservation regime for the gas cartel.
Knowing full well what a “psycho” he was dealing with in Scott Morrison, Patrick extracted a written contract, via The Australian:
Centre Alliance has received a written guarantee outlining the Morrison government’s gas policy, which the key minor party demanded in exchange for its support for the $158 billion personal income tax cuts package.
The copy of the draft gas policy, which has been signed by the government, was given to Centre Alliance senators last night ahead of a crucial vote in the Senate today on the tax cuts.
Centre Alliance senator Rex Patrick told The Australian in June he wanted a “clear understanding” of the government’s intention on gas, and the details in writing, before supporting the tax cuts.
Senator Patrick told The Australian the document detailed the measures of the government’s gas plan and the timetable in which they would be rolled out “over the next few months”.
A part of the deal was a review of the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism which concluded:
The review recognises that price is an important indicator in establishing whether the domestic market is functioning effectively and considers that the ACCC’s forward LNG netback price series is the most applicable prices when estimating the likelihood and extent of a potential shortfall. As such, the review recommends amending the ADGSM’s guidelines to include referencing the ACCC’s LNG netback price series in estimating a potential shortfall.
This amendment clarifies the relevance of the ACCC’s LNG netback price series to considerations under the ADGSM and strengthens the ADGSM’s ability to deliver on its objective of securing domestic gas supply.
This never happened. At the time, Labor was jumping up and down demanding that the gas price be regulated at $7Gj:
MORRISON GOVERNMENT GAS DEAL
July 05, 2019
Gas prices have skyrocketed under the Liberals – already leading three manufacturers to close down and threatening the viability of many more businesses according to the ACCC.
The Coalition has talked a big game but has refused to bring big gas companies to heel.
Under Senator Rex Patrick’s deal, the Government has committed that gas prices for Australian manufacturers and households will be cut to $7 a gigajoule or less.
It is now time for the Government to deliver clear detail about how this price will be achieved and when by; and what does Scott Morrison propose to do if manufacturers find themselves unable to source gas at the price promised by the Government.
Yet, bizarrely, Labor has just agreed to an LNG netback price benchmark for the ADGSM that will deliver not $7Gj gas but $70Gj. Who “has refused to bring big gas companies to heel”?
I ask you, should tax cuts for the rich go ahead when the opposite side of the parliamentary contract to pass them, cheap gas and power prices, have not?“
@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
indo-dreaming wrote:Supafreak wrote:Price was given the inaugural Freedom and Hope award, a prize given to someone who “truly represents the positive future that we aspire to”, CPAC Australia founder Andrew Cooper said. https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/10/03/jacinta-price-cpac-indigenous-voice...
Great news, she is such an amazing women, and such a positive role model, trying to deal and bring to light real indigenous issues(especially for women) and there root causes and looking for solutions.
It's great that she is now in the senate and getting a higher profile from the general public and mainstream media and even getting air time on places like ABC and awards like this.
I really hope she goes further in politics she is only 41, extremely driven, extremely smart and as tough as nails, i hope she gets the drive to go further in politics, i know its a long shot and unlikely and only a dream, but how amazing would it be to have her one day as PM, the first women voted in and first indigenous person, that would be amazing.
Italy just got there first women leader voted in another strong conservative women, so it is possible.
Just a shame her own mob hasn’t taken a shine to her .
flollo wrote:@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
That’s Albo’s job….distract, deflect and hide their corporate neoliberal agenda as they push it through as utmost priority.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/oct/06/teena-mcqueen-tol...
Is the broad church in disarray????
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:flollo wrote:@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
That’s Albo’s job….distract, deflect and hide their corporate neoliberal agenda as they push it through as utmost priority.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
Maybe so, but can you point out a country that had a better system? It's flawed for sure, but what alternative is there?
I would argue a more direct democracy could work better without preference voting, first over the line then must negotiate with other parties giving smaller voices more volume. Would this work, or would nothing get done? Dunno?
Ripping into Albo and what you think Labor are doing after less than 6 months is a bit premature. On another headline today, Labor starting to change stance on stage 3 tax cuts. My guess is they will not proceed in present form.
Dam, was trying to stay off this forum, bloody vortex. Ha
andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:flollo wrote:@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
That’s Albo’s job….distract, deflect and hide their corporate neoliberal agenda as they push it through as utmost priority.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
Maybe so, but can you point out a country that had a better system? It's flawed for sure, but what alternative is there?
I would argue a more direct democracy could work better without preference voting, first over the line then must negotiate with other parties giving smaller voices more volume. Would this work, or would nothing get done? Dunno?
Ripping into Albo and what you think Labor are doing after less than 6 months is a bit premature. On another headline today, Labor starting to change stance on stage 3 tax cuts. My guess is they will not proceed in present form.
Dam, was trying to stay off this forum, bloody vortex. Ha
Yep. Australia fifty years ago had a far better system. The globalists had yet to fully corrupt the ALP / LNP duopoly into complete dysfunction and Australians were broadly represented politically, instead of being given a fake choice between neoliberal Coke and Pepsi at every election as we are today. Our votes are essentially meaningless now, at least as far as any genuine change in political narrative and direction. This was not the case previously.
Nothing premature about talking truth regarding ALP’s duplicitous ways. They are the enemy of the Australian people and they prove so at every opportunity. Did you not read the previous post about the ALP demanding Dom gas reservation tied to pricing when they were in opposition and now they are imposing the opposite. Not someone else imposing this nation destroying outcome, it’s the ALP. It’s the ALP irreversibly fucking up the environment and sending species extinct with their determination to bring in millions of immigrants. It’s the ALP importing an army of wage-busting cheap labour from the third world. No one else to blame.
The ALP are con artists.
The democracy in Australia is a sham.
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:flollo wrote:@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
That’s Albo’s job….distract, deflect and hide their corporate neoliberal agenda as they push it through as utmost priority.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
Maybe so, but can you point out a country that had a better system? It's flawed for sure, but what alternative is there?
I would argue a more direct democracy could work better without preference voting, first over the line then must negotiate with other parties giving smaller voices more volume. Would this work, or would nothing get done? Dunno?
Ripping into Albo and what you think Labor are doing after less than 6 months is a bit premature. On another headline today, Labor starting to change stance on stage 3 tax cuts. My guess is they will not proceed in present form.
Dam, was trying to stay off this forum, bloody vortex. HaYep. Australia fifty years ago had a far better system. The globalists had yet to fully corrupt the ALP / LNP duopoly into complete dysfunction and Australians were broadly represented politically, instead of being given a fake choice between neoliberal Coke and Pepsi at every election as we are today. Our votes are essentially meaningless now, at least as far as any genuine change in political narrative and direction. This was not the case previously.
Really??
Around 50 years ago young Australian men were being sent to kill and be killed in Vietnam at the behest of the good ol USA. Gough thankfully ended conscription with his election win. He then implemented many of the radical at the times policies such as free education, universal health, and gave Sydney a proper sewerage system plus others as well as some mistakes. Many different theories why his term ended some with the CIA and US administration playing a part.
My take us that Australia has always been to a certain extent a Vassel state of the USA post WW2, before then it was Britain. Within this context there are some things a Oz govt cannot do in regards to the international situation. At least Labor endeavour to improve lives of Australians generally when it can. Albo has already demonstrated this with some of the policies implemented. They seem to be trying to govern with a sense of transparency and decency unlike the previous corrupt rabble. Also the Greens are now at least asking questions regarding how it is ok for the serving PM to commit Australia to war without an act of parliament, a idea that has the LNP fighting against. Geez how dare the Australian people have a say if it's ok to send young men and women off to die for someone else's war. Anyway I digress ...
Not sure if anyone here knows of this fellow, but I think Satyajit Das puts things pretty well in part 2 of his 3-part series on the end of the global western empire (parts 1 and 2 are available, part 3 is upcoming).
I remember Satyajit Das from his famous practitioner-oriented textbooks on quantitative finance and financial derivatives, which were considered as bibles in the industry (along with Paul Wilmott's books) when I worked in it. I think the below also roughly summarises much of his arguments in his book Fortune's Fool.
Das wrote:Deep-seated societal failures complicate the West's position.
Ostensibly participative Western political systems are nearing anarchy. The value of suffrage is reduced by routine gerrymandering, choices between unpalatable, incompetent and absurd candidates, lack of understanding of key issues, the absence of substantive policies, civic disengagement, result denial and promotion of insurrection.
Governments mainly serve well-funded or vocal special interests. As Mancur Olson forecast in The Logic of Collective Action and The Rise and Decline of Nations, well-funded coalitions now influence policies ensuring benefits to narrow interest groups leaving large costs to be borne by the rest of the population. Alternatively, countervailing forces create paralysis.
The complex challenges and lack of easy solutions underlies the rising culture wars in Western democracies. Worthy causes -- liberty, gender, sexuality, history, indigenous rights, multi-culturalism -- are largely matters of belief and values. Positions are fundamentally irreconcilable but politically useful in manipulating a fissiparous electorate.
Power is concentrated in the hands of celebrity leaders. Elected representatives, many unknown to voters, serve merely as Lenin's 'parliamentary cretins' rubber stamping the party's will or ensuring permanent deadlock.
Leaders themselves are an uninspiring lot, long on cunning and media savvy but little else. Constant media scrutiny of private lives and better financial rewards on offer elsewhere mean politics attracts in the main uniquely unqualified aspirants whose highest potential is mediocrity. Aesop's observation that "we hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" is accurate.
Politics is now "panem et circenses" (bread and circuses) as Juvenal wrote in Satire X. The focus is superficial appeasement in form of glib announcements which will remain largely unimplemented. The objective is to distract and divert while maintaining electability.
Outside election periods, it is the preserve of professional politicians, operatives and a breathless media providing low-cost, constant entertainment for political addicts.
There is parallel institutional decay. State bureaucracies, once capable of providing objective and independent advice, have been decapitated. Career specialist public servants have been replaced with malleable political appointees. Law enforcement and the judiciary are increasingly politicised. Justice requires deep pockets or ability to garner fickle public or media support.
Focused on viral news and trending items, the mainstream press, for the most part, now cannot distinguish between facts, analysis and opinion. The power of the Internet to cheaply disseminate has seen the rise of independent bloggers and websites of variable quality. Over time, a process of self-selection ensures that tribes congregate in cyber echo-chambers. Western coverage of the Ukraine conflict -- a combination Pravda-esque reporting and Goebbels-inspired propaganda -- highlights the fact that shared objective facts necessary for an informed debate are no longer accessible.
US founding father John Adams was correct in thinking that democracy wastes, exhausts and murders itself without the right conditions.
gsco wrote:Not sure if anyone here knows of this fellow, but I think Satyajit Das puts things pretty well in part 2 of his 3-part series on the end of the global western empire (parts 1 and 2 are available, part 3 is upcoming).
I remember Satyajit Das from his famous practitioner-oriented textbooks on quantitative finance and financial derivatives, which were considered as bibles in the industry (along with Paul Wilmott's books) when I worked in it. I think the below also roughly summarises much of his arguments in his book Fortune's Fool.
Das wrote:Deep-seated societal failures complicate the West's position.
Ostensibly participative Western political systems are nearing anarchy. The value of suffrage is reduced by routine gerrymandering, choices between unpalatable, incompetent and absurd candidates, lack of understanding of key issues, the absence of substantive policies, civic disengagement, result denial and promotion of insurrection.
Governments mainly serve well-funded or vocal special interests. As Mancur Olson forecast in The Logic of Collective Action and The Rise and Decline of Nations, well-funded coalitions now influence policies ensuring benefits to narrow interest groups leaving large costs to be borne by the rest of the population. Alternatively, countervailing forces create paralysis.
The complex challenges and lack of easy solutions underlies the rising culture wars in Western democracies. Worthy causes -- liberty, gender, sexuality, history, indigenous rights, multi-culturalism -- are largely matters of belief and values. Positions are fundamentally irreconcilable but politically useful in manipulating a fissiparous electorate.
Power is concentrated in the hands of celebrity leaders. Elected representatives, many unknown to voters, serve merely as Lenin's 'parliamentary cretins' rubber stamping the party's will or ensuring permanent deadlock.
Leaders themselves are an uninspiring lot, long on cunning and media savvy but little else. Constant media scrutiny of private lives and better financial rewards on offer elsewhere mean politics attracts in the main uniquely unqualified aspirants whose highest potential is mediocrity. Aesop's observation that "we hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" is accurate.
Politics is now "panem et circenses" (bread and circuses) as Juvenal wrote in Satire X. The focus is superficial appeasement in form of glib announcements which will remain largely unimplemented. The objective is to distract and divert while maintaining electability.
Outside election periods, it is the preserve of professional politicians, operatives and a breathless media providing low-cost, constant entertainment for political addicts.
There is parallel institutional decay. State bureaucracies, once capable of providing objective and independent advice, have been decapitated. Career specialist public servants have been replaced with malleable political appointees. Law enforcement and the judiciary are increasingly politicised. Justice requires deep pockets or ability to garner fickle public or media support.
Focused on viral news and trending items, the mainstream press, for the most part, now cannot distinguish between facts, analysis and opinion. The power of the Internet to cheaply disseminate has seen the rise of independent bloggers and websites of variable quality. Over time, a process of self-selection ensures that tribes congregate in cyber echo-chambers. Western coverage of the Ukraine conflict -- a combination Pravda-esque reporting and Goebbels-inspired propaganda -- highlights the fact that shared objective facts necessary for an informed debate are no longer accessible.
US founding father John Adams was correct in thinking that democracy wastes, exhausts and murders itself without the right conditions.
The position outside the West is different but not better. Democracy means nothing to people who live for the most part in abject poverty without life's basics. You can't eat the right to vote although you might get a few cents for selling the right.
Most non-Western countries pay lip-service to democratic formulas or more wisely save money and energy by dispensing with plebiscites. There is no pretence at citizen participation, independent institutions or toleration of dissent. But these top-down systems have the advantage of forcing through necessary unpopular adjustments. It is difficult to imagine China's zero Covid policy being implemented elsewhere. Autocracies are also able and willing to inflict greater suffering on subjects than under more democratic systems.
Underlying these differences are individual expectations. Citizens of the West are used to or aspire to high living standards and personal freedoms. Western societies, evolutionary biologist Peter Turchin argues, overproduce overeducated elites who demand that governments shield their lifestyles, irrespective of practicality or cost, from the effects of economic downturns, extreme weather events, terrorism, influx of immigrants, a virus or bad personal choices. They assume that bad things happen only to others but not to them.
Today, stagnant incomes, the rising costs of middle-class life -- food, energy, health, education -- and uncertainty mean that prospects are lower then what they believe to be their due. This creates dissatisfaction and anger which can easily spill over into social unrest, similar to that of the1930s.
Yes interesting times indeed ...
andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:andy-mac wrote:DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:flollo wrote:@DSDS I think the botox discussion is way more important
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/anthony-albanese-shuts-down-bot...
That’s Albo’s job….distract, deflect and hide their corporate neoliberal agenda as they push it through as utmost priority.
Democracy in Australia is a sham.
Maybe so, but can you point out a country that had a better system? It's flawed for sure, but what alternative is there?
I would argue a more direct democracy could work better without preference voting, first over the line then must negotiate with other parties giving smaller voices more volume. Would this work, or would nothing get done? Dunno?
Ripping into Albo and what you think Labor are doing after less than 6 months is a bit premature. On another headline today, Labor starting to change stance on stage 3 tax cuts. My guess is they will not proceed in present form.
Dam, was trying to stay off this forum, bloody vortex. HaYep. Australia fifty years ago had a far better system. The globalists had yet to fully corrupt the ALP / LNP duopoly into complete dysfunction and Australians were broadly represented politically, instead of being given a fake choice between neoliberal Coke and Pepsi at every election as we are today. Our votes are essentially meaningless now, at least as far as any genuine change in political narrative and direction. This was not the case previously.
Really??
Around 50 years ago young Australian men were being sent to kill and be killed in Vietnam at the behest of the good ol USA. Gough thankfully ended conscription with his election win. He then implemented many of the radical at the times policies such as free education, universal health, and gave Sydney a proper sewerage system plus others as well as some mistakes. Many different theories why his term ended some with the CIA and US administration playing a part.
My take us that Australia has always been to a certain extent a Vassel state of the USA post WW2, before then it was Britain. Within this context there are some things a Oz govt cannot do in regards to the international situation. At least Labor endeavour to improve lives of Australians generally when it can. Albo has already demonstrated this with some of the policies implemented. They seem to be trying to govern with a sense of transparency and decency unlike the previous corrupt rabble. Also the Greens are now at least asking questions regarding how it is ok for the serving PM to commit Australia to war without an act of parliament, a idea that has the LNP fighting against. Geez how dare the Australian people have a say if it's ok to send young men and women off to die for someone else's war. Anyway I digress ...
Of course we were (are) a vassal state. It’s no secret. We are part of the British empire for Christ’s sake. A British colony.
As you said yourself, the changeover to unrepresentative democracy happened when the US took over as our masters from the British as British power faltered. Gough getting the boot was the death knell for true democracy in Australia. Now we get political distraction after political distraction to keep our eyes off the fact that we are living in a sunny sky Matrix where Australians are reduced to useable livestock for international corporations and the plutocracy.
Right….let’s throw the Indigenous Voice at ‘em for a few years. That’ll burn up the front pages!
“At least Labor endeavour to improve lives of Australians generally when it can.”
Huh? You keep sticking to this idea despite it being proven untrue. Not sure what more I can say? Albo is not governing for Australians and his actions completely overwhelm and ridicule any historic cultural belief that the ALP are friends of Australians. The days of the ALP representing Australians are decades gone.
DudeSweetDudeSweet wrote:“At least Labor endeavour to improve lives of Australians generally when it can.”
Huh? You keep sticking to this idea despite it being proven untrue. Not sure what more I can say? Albo is not governing for Australians and his actions completely overwhelm and ridicule any historic cultural belief that the ALP are friends of Australians. The days of the ALP representing Australians are decades gone.
Yep less than 6 months in and with the mess that was left, it's a disgrace they haven't fixed everything.
Below from ALP website. Let's judge them at end of term how they perform with these ...
"Anthony Albanese and Labor's plan for a better future will:
Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "
LOL, the ALP website
They haven't even got a plan to successfully run a pub chook raffle.
History has shown how absolutely poor they are at running the economy.
They campaigned on bringing cost of living down, well mine has gone up a LOT!
All consumables cost more.
As for saying they inherited a mess, thats what they left for the coalition id 2013 and they were on the way to getting things sorted then Covid came.
All the ALP spin may sound good but its BullSpin.
quadzilla wrote:LOL, the ALP website
They haven't even got a plan to successfully run a pub chook raffle.
History has shown how absolutely poor they are at running the economy.
They campaigned on bringing cost of living down, well mine has gone up a LOT!
All consumables cost more.
As for saying they inherited a mess, thats what they left for the coalition id 2013 and they were on the way to getting things sorted then Covid came.
All the ALP spin may sound good but its BullSpin.
Cool story bud....
"Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "
Bit of window dressing mixed in with some blatant bullshit.
quadzilla wrote:LOL, the ALP website
They haven't even got a plan to successfully run a pub chook raffle.
History has shown how absolutely poor they are at running the economy.
They campaigned on bringing cost of living down, well mine has gone up a LOT!
All consumables cost more.
As for saying they inherited a mess, thats what they left for the coalition id 2013 and they were on the way to getting things sorted then Covid came.
All the ALP spin may sound good but its BullSpin.
quadrzilla. Based on your premise, societies only exist because of how you run an economy, really. I know a non-monetary society thats existed for 47,500 years continuously and had less woes than we’ve ever had. Wow, you and i live in very different worlds then. You a shareholder out of interest?
Below from ALP website. Let's judge them at end of term how they perform with these ...
"Anthony Albanese and Labor's plan for a better future will:
Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "
Well, already they’ve declared a human torrent if millions of immigrants which will utterly overwhelm the already utterly overwhelmed health system…so easier to see a doctor?
Lol. That’s a lie
Create secure jobs with training?
Umm…same with the immigration which is expressly desired by business to act as a destructive force on wage growth and working conditions including security. Labour also continues the LNP “temporary “ measure of allowing foreign students unlimited hours work rights which continues the conduit of international “students “ only attending university and tertiary education in order to game work rights in Australia. This directly influences standards of education and educational experience for Australian youth…and not in a good way.
So that’s another lie.
Make child care cheaper says the ALP.
How…by undercutting wages for child care workers using exploitable foreign labour? By subsidising child care costs with money borrowed by the government and the debt slung onto taxpayers in a real wages tax? Or how about the fact that child care is so essential because the ALP will massively increase demand for housing with their mass immigration policy, which will push up rents and mortgages necessitating mothers need more child care due to work commitments.
Another lie by ALP
Finally…the big lie about “making things in Australia”after they deliberately eviscerate the manufacturing sector with their deliberate juicing of energy prices, to the extent that manufacturing is not economically viable in Australia.
So….another lie.
100% lies by ALP.
Forget what they say, watch what they do. The ALP has no regard for you or your family beyond your usefulness to corporate interests.
Democracy in Australia is a sham
Most of what you've written there is incorrect in fact or assertion.
AndyM wrote:"Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "Bit of window dressing mixed in with some blatant bullshit.
be hard to paint a more bland, cliched, labor party list of 'commitments' of non binding non commitments if you tried...
sypkan wrote:AndyM wrote:"Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Bit of window dressing mixed in with some blatant bullshit.
be hard to paint a more bland, cliched, labor party list of 'commitments' of non binding non commitments if you tried...
And my point being if they do not deliver then yep go hard on them, but less than 6 months into a term of government, it's a bit rich saying they are sell outs. Agree with last sentence being political cheap talk.
"Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "
Not as bad as " if you have a go, you'll get a go."
sypkan wrote:AndyM wrote:"Strengthen Medicare by making it easier to see the doctor.
Create secure local jobs by investing in Fee-Free TAFE and more university places, and make your job more secure with better pay and conditions.
Make child care cheaper so that it’s easier for working families to get ahead.
Make more things here by working with business to invest in manufacturing and renewables to create more Australian jobs.
Labor will deliver a future where no one is held back and no one is left behind. "Bit of window dressing mixed in with some blatant bullshit.
be hard to paint a more bland, cliched, labor party list of 'commitments' of non binding non commitments if you tried...
Btw, we would not have Medicare if not for Labor government's. Protection of that alone is enough to make them the better beverage if Coke and Pepsi are the choices ..
old Das is on the money...
that whole quote is spot on
strip away the 'captured democray', the celebrity, the b graders, and the same same... and contemporary politics basically boils down to this...
"The complex challenges and lack of easy solutions underlies the rising culture wars in Western democracies. Worthy causes -- liberty, gender, sexuality, history, indigenous rights, multi-culturalism -- are largely matters of belief and values. Positions are fundamentally irreconcilable but politically useful in manipulating a fissiparous electorate."
a battle of my 'belief' is better than yours...
belief being the key word
"Positions are fundamentally irreconcilable"
yep
'...And my point being if they do not deliver then yep go hard on them, but less than 6 months into a term of government, it's a bit rich saying they are sell outs. Agree with last sentence being political cheap talk..."
Id like to agree... but the gas situation offered them the ultimate challenge...
a chance to...
'nail their colours to the mast' (to quote peter garrett)
and they failed miseably... on 2 or 3 occasions now...
they're more bought than morrison
at least morrison has ideology as an excuse
"It doesn’t do to remember anything in the Australian political economy. It goes against every instinct of the iMSM and our Rum Corps leadership.
Memory equals accountability and we can’t have that..."
"MORRISON GOVERNMENT GAS DEAL
July 05, 2019
Gas prices have skyrocketed under the Liberals – already leading three manufacturers to close down and threatening the viability of many more businesses according to the ACCC.
The Coalition has talked a big game but has refused to bring big gas companies to heel.
Under Senator Rex Patrick’s deal, the Government has committed that gas prices for Australian manufacturers and households will be cut to $7 a gigajoule or less.
It is now time for the Government to deliver clear detail about how this price will be achieved and when by; and what does Scott Morrison propose to do if manufacturers find themselves unable to source gas at the price promised by the Government.
Yet, bizarrely, Labor has just agreed to an LNG netback price benchmark for the ADGSM that will deliver not $7Gj gas but $70Gj. Who “has refused to bring big gas companies to heel”?"
bizarrely indeed
sypkan wrote:'...And my point being if they do not deliver then yep go hard on them, but less than 6 months into a term of government, it's a bit rich saying they are sell outs. Agree with last sentence being political cheap talk..."
Id like to agree... but the gas situation offered them the ultimate challenge...
a chance to...
'nail their colours to the mast' (to quote peter garrett)
and they failed miseably... on 2 or 3 occasions now...
they're more bought than morrison
at least morrison has ideology as an excuse
Maybe, I have commented on here re Gas and think it's a joke how much revenue we receive. If the contracts signed by Howard are easily changed I have no idea. What would have been repercussions if cancelling or changing contracts, I don't know, do you? Do fossil fuel companies have too much power with lobbyists etc? Definitely.
Politics is about compromise on what you would like to do and what you can do. I am still of belief that if Labor go too hard the MSM will crucify them, they are already circling over stage 3 tax cut promises. They probably still have nightmares over the last time they tried to tax the ff industry. Remember they lost govt....
Geez how much airtime does Dutton and other opposition members get compared to Labor when they were in opposition. It's a joke.
What was Morrison's ideology besides staying in power??
Geez Labor are either bought out by Unions or bought out by industry... Geez they cannot catch a break ...
AndyM wrote:Positive role model for who?
Conservative white people who want someone to hide behind so they (hopefully) don't get labelled as racist?
A positive role model for Indigenous people, she empowers indigenous people because she calls them to take ownership of their issues and bring change from within (the only place change can come from) and teaches and shows them by example what can be achieved and not by some city folk with no understanding of the issues ala Lidia but from an Indigenous girl from central Australia one that has been in their shoes and suffered domestic violence and seen her family affected by violence (even murders)
As you know Jacinta's focus is on indigenous women and families in remote communities which goes back to the influence of her mother who has always gone against the grain and fought back against her mob at 13 years old when she was to be set up with an arranged marriage, while she escaped that she still ended up pregnant at 14 and almost killed by an abusive indigenous partner, but she set out to get herself educated and then became involved in politics and other things like Indigenous Affairs Advisory Council.
So obviously Bess was the positive strong role model for Jacinta who now takes that baton and is a strong positive role models for indigenous people especially indigenous women in remote community's trying to (or brave enough) to escape abusive relationships.
Yeah sure many indigenous people also dont like what she has to say because she challenges them to change and take ownership of their issues(especially men), obviously that's a much harder road than the easy road of accepting the narrative that all your issues are due to others or a past beyond you and any change needs to come from others or government rather than yourself or your community, adopting that view and position is going down an easy road but obviously a road to nowhere.
In regard to your negative comment about white conservatives, obviously these types of comments just come from a place of ignorance and lack of understanding on who Jacinta is or is about, i recommend listing to one or two more recent podcast on Spotify from her and you might be surprised on her views and what she is about.
stunet wrote:Most of what you've written there is incorrect in fact or assertion.
Examples?
.