The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

bluediamond started the topic in

Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 3:23pm

and re. indod...

he definitely goes too hard on this culture angle...

but andym might just have a point re. 'the noble savage'...

indod needs to seriously consider how new ways and technologies impact indigenous communities... and how the 'haves' and have nots' impacts wider society...

interestingly, I find blackfellas and indo's have very similar perspectives about big bad whitey and money...

and any means possible being ok to 'redistribute' that perceived gross inequality...

when really, most whitey's they actually meet, are of modest background, and are / have also just worked their arses off to better their situation in a stacked system...

this doesn't stop resentment developing at all..

fuels whitey = bad...

and justifies some self facilitated 'redistribution' and trickery...

'the narrative' ...as it has metamorphasised... into the current form... is actually very damaging and counter productive to any social cohesion / reconciliation...

just my perspective...

my opinion...

but hey! ....that's all post modernism is...

dressed up as 'fact'

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 3:27pm

I think 'reform'

is more about reformed...

good on him... the new you is much more productive...

gsco Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 3:48pm

Islamic conquests and empires
Roman Empire
Han Chinese spread in greater China
Maurya Empire
Mongol Empire
Ottoman Empire
Persian Empire
Alexander the Great
Russian empire
Homo sapien annihilation of all archaic humans
…
off the top of my head.

It’s a big list . It’s absurd to single out the British empire.

Edit: good post adam12, appreciate you taking the time to write it. I don’t agree with all of it but good heartfelt comment.

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 3:50pm

"...People like my wife dont think of themselves as some separate group or any different to other Australians, its just not the Australia of today which is vastly multicultural society with skin tones of all shades and ethnic backgrounds from all around the world.

This guys mentality is stuck somewhere in the past and even if he was correct..."

the old chook from darwin at the end of this episode is absolute gold!!!

https://iview.abc.net.au/video/NC2330H003S00

trigger warning: they may just make a reference to caramel, chocolate, licorice... and errrr... milk...

(love how blackfellas talk... seems most inner city melbourne suburbanites might have a heart attack if they actually met some'real' people...)

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 3:46pm

A Salty Dog wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

It was a setup mate.

Rowan Dean and his mates are doing this.

A setup hey, got any proof?

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 4:32pm

View this post on Instagram

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 4:33pm

burleigh wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

It was a setup mate.

Rowan Dean and his mates are doing this.

A setup hey, got any proof?

Im curious what he would even mean by set up?

Does he mean her number was leaked on purpose?

Surely nobody is suggesting the calls are fake or a set up?

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 4:47pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
burleigh wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

It was a setup mate.

Rowan Dean and his mates are doing this.

A setup hey, got any proof?

Im curious what he would even mean by set up?

Does he mean her number was leaked on purpose?

Surely nobody is suggesting the calls are fake or a set up?

I got the feeling he was indicating the calls were a setup.

Yes23

How low can you go.

southernraw Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 4:57pm

It's a copy and paste job but well worth a read. Holds as much relevance today as it did then
..Mick Dodson, 1997..
"Assimilation relied on the well-established and widely-accepted view that we were inferior
to white Australians, that our way of life, our culture and our languages
were substandard. It assumed that we would willingly give up our Aboriginality
and adopt the dominant white culture.

Assimilation presupposed
that the Indigenous people of Australia were a dying race. Embedded within
the policy of assimilation was a clear expectation of the cultural extinction
of Indigenous peoples. 3

As Hasluck's description
shows assimilation linked our citizenship rights to our adequate attainment
of white ways of living. Aboriginal Australians would only be given status
as full citizens entitled to the rights and privileges of citizenship
if we showed ourselves capable of fulfilling our responsibilities to non-Indigenous
society and if we embraced its customs and beliefs.

The irony of this
for Indigenous people was that although our rights to things like shelter
and adequate infrastructure relied on our capacity to show we could live
like whitefellas we have traditionally been provided with inadequate housing
and infrastructure. We have always been expected to live in places and
conditions far below the standard enjoyed by non-Indigenous people in
this country.

In order to be granted
citizenship rights, then, we were required to live like non-Indigenous
people but in circumstances which made this nigh on impossible and which
were entirely beyond our control. We also know that even if, in the face
of difficult conditions, we were able to 'prove our worth' this did not
ensure the automatic delivery of what we were entitled to.

Coincidentally in
today's Australian newspaper the Governor-General, Sir William
Deane, said that on a recent visit to Maningrida in the Northern Territory
he found that even though this was in some respects an outstanding community
Aborigines still slept six to a room because of the 'hopelessly inadequate'
housing. Poor housing led to the fact that one in twenty three Aborigines
at Maningrida had rheumatic heart disease. He said A the incidence
is possibly the highest ever recorded in the world... and six times higher
than Soweto. 4
But despite this
rhetoric of equality and non-discrimination we were still denied rights
enjoyed by non-Indigenous Australians.

There is perhaps
no greater example of the senselessness and obscenity of assimilation
than the practice of forcibly removing Aboriginal children from their
families in its name. We today have to deal with the consequences of this
terrible legacy. The pain, the grief and sense of loss of mother and child
is unimaginable to us. Anyone seriously suggesting assimilation be revisited
should spend a few hours in the hearings of the National Inquiry into
the Separation of Aboriginal Children from their Families.

Listening to the
stories of devastation and ruin might just convince them of the stupidity
which is assimilation.

Assimilation was
and is a massive abuse of human rights. The ridiculous thing is that human
rights had no application to Indigenous Australians unless they were fully
assimilated into the dominant culture. Despite the existence of international
human rights instruments, human rights did not inherently accrue to Aboriginal
people but were instead a reward if they had renounced their Aboriginality
and embraced the dominant status quo. It was equality based, not on respect
for racial difference, but on the denial of your race.
An Australia for
'all of us' does not countenance special treatment for Indigenous people
either because of our disadvantage or because of our unique position within
the Australian community or because we have rights deserving of respect
and protection. The implication has been that recognition of the rights
of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples will irreparably damage
Australian sovereignty. 21

Such ideological
straightjacketing is useless to debate in Indigenous Affairs. It adds
nothing to the development and implementation of appropriate and effective
policy. A clean dichotomy between assimilation and separatism has never
existed. In the heyday of assimilationist policies Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander peoples resolutely asserted their Aboriginality.

We opposed the forced
removal of our kids. We rejected assimilationist policies because they
were unable to accommodate our sense of Indigenous identity and we rejected
them because they were blind to our beliefs, our values, our cultures.
22

As Stanner wrote
of assimilation in 1958:

according to this
model, we thus have only to "teach" and "show" Aborigines
where they made their mistakes and they will quickly become Europeans
in outlook, organisations and custom ... this is fantasy. It perishes
in a single fact of life. They have to "unlearn" being Aborigines,
in mind, body and estate. 23

The current rhetoric
that recognition of the rights of Indigenous peoples threatens our national
integrity has also strongly implied two things. First, that post assimilation
Indigenous peoples have had self-determination and second, that self-determination
has been a failure.

The failure, over
the last three decades, of increased expenditure on Aboriginal Affairs
to achieve meaningful outcomes is most often cited as evidence of the
failure of self-determination. Partington wrote in mid-June, for example:

conditions of life
for Aborigines after separatist policies have been pursued for a quarter
of a century seem unsatisfactory to everyone concerned about them.
Partington and many
others continually blur the line between self-determination and separatism
implying that recognition of the right to self-determination will inevitably
lead to secessionist movements by Indigenous Australians. That it will
result in challenges to the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the
Australian nation.

It is naive to assume
that self-determination equates with separatism. A people may choose separatism
or be forced into it because of the conditions under which they exist
within a nation state.

But self-determination
within the parameters of a modern nation state is possible. In international
circles such a position was countenanced and supported by the previous
government in discussions and negotiations on self-determination for Indigenous
peoples.

The achievement of
self-determination for Indigenous peoples within a nation state requires
first, that those in power have the capacity to recognise our right to
determine our own futures and next, that they are not afraid to do so."
https://humanrights.gov.au/about/news/speeches/assimilation-versus-self-...

andy-mac Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 5:07pm

burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Mate if you think that is typical of 'Yes' or 'No' voters, you must hang out with some real dickheads.

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 5:33pm

andy-mac wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Mate if you think that is typical of 'Yes' or 'No' voters, you must hang out with some real dickheads.

So far i've seen physical abuse, spitting and verbal threats from the yes mob.
Throw in the rainbow brigade, Dog mask wearing gimps in a public space, pfizer, and a few c grade celebs writing yes on their hands for some sweet cash and finally Kamahl, the entire yes23 campaign is the biggest flop i've even witnessed.

gsco Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 5:48pm

Betting market for The Voice: https://www.bluebet.com.au/sports/Politics/142/Australian-Referendums/Th...

From this, the implied probabilities are currently 20.5% chance of a Yes win, and 79.5% chance of a No win.

andy-mac Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 6:38pm

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/03/indigenous-voice-...

No will probably get up, unfortunately in my opinion.
But think it will be pyrrhic victory for Dutton and his party.

velocityjohnno Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 6:50pm

I've noticed ABC and now Guardian above bring in the Trump/Brexit parallel (called it way earlier, in this very thread). Descent into fractured politics/what is wrong with people - if No wins there will be all sorts of recrimination and basketing of deplorables. There might even be international convict-shaming - be ready for it! What lost those elites their issue/election was being incredibly out of touch with everyday constituents. You don't have to look far to see the same in Australia at present.

Honestly, if the odds are relevant, this kind of backlash would have been better served at the big 3 political parties themselves, at a general election (Say: One Nation outpolling a major, like the voters in Hunter nearly did to Joel Fitzgibbon - just on a nationwide scale.)

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:09pm

I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

Supafreak Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:12pm

burleigh wrote:
I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

So you are siding with the LNP who were in power during covid, yeah that makes sense .

sameaswas Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:15pm

andy-mac wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/03/indigenous-voice-...

No will probably get up, unfortunately in my opinion.
But think it will be pyrrhic victory for Dutton and his party.

not surprised if yes wins imo, especially with the latest batch of propaganda ads with little children.
i see these ads as proof of the failure of queen marcia and king noel after 45+ yrs of being the self appointed rulers of fnp, and condoneing illiteracy in isolated comunities.

but hey at least they made sure their children, rellies, mates all got uni degrees, all paid for out of some educational grant for fnp and can takeover when they retire.

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:27pm

burleigh wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
burleigh wrote:
A Salty Dog wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Typical yes voters
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxmh5BNvUpa/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

It was a setup mate.

Rowan Dean and his mates are doing this.

A setup hey, got any proof?

Im curious what he would even mean by set up?

Does he mean her number was leaked on purpose?

Surely nobody is suggesting the calls are fake or a set up?

I got the feeling he was indicating the calls were a setup.

Yes23

How low can you go.

Pretty unrealistic, she would get those nasty calls anyway no need to fake them, and i cant see her leaking her phone number on purpose, she really didnt get much publicly out of it anyway.

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:24pm

Edit: damn thing wont let me post the audio link

This is a good listen even if you are a yes voter.

The father dude is smart and on point and refreshing to hear someone answer question's honestly for once.

Even those involved in the voice including Noel recommend to Albo to put the voice in policy first so people could see it operating and gained more trust in it before putting it to referendum.

Onya Albo glad you didnt listen to them..

adam12 Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:26pm

Sameaswas said "i see these ads as proof of the failure of queen marcia and king noel after 45+ yrs of being the self appointed rulers of fnp, and condoneing illiteracy in isolated comunities."
Oh the irony.
Who was it in your "comunitie" that was "condoneing" yours?

sameaswas Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:26pm

velocityjohnno wrote:
I've noticed ABC and now Guardian above bring in the Trump/Brexit parallel (called it way earlier, in this very thread). Descent into fractured politics/what is wrong with people - if No wins there will be all sorts of recrimination and basketing of deplorables. There might even be international convict-shaming - be ready for it! What lost those elites their issue/election was being incredibly out of touch with everyday constituents. You don't have to look far to see the same in Australia at present.

Honestly, if the odds are relevant, this kind of backlash would have been better served at the big 3 political parties themselves, at a general election (Say: One Nation outpolling a major, like the voters in Hunter nearly did to Joel Fitzgibbon - just on a nationwide scale.)

aha! vj wondered how long before it would take for predictions of what may unfold after 14th october .

heres mine...yes wins... first off, thank fuck it's over!!! second, dam!!! and no probs good luck.

no wins...best not to think about the reaction...king billie!!!!!

sameaswas Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:35pm

adam12 wrote:
Sameaswas said "i see these ads as proof of the failure of queen marcia and king noel after 45+ yrs of being the self appointed rulers of fnp, and condoneing illiteracy in isolated comunities."
Oh the irony.
Who was it in your "comunitie" that was "condoneing" yours?

to blame me or any one else of my colour or race for past or present grievances is racism and i am offended that you should judge me so.
the state of israel holds no grudge against the present german ppl, natzism yes.

adam12 Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 7:50pm

Sameaswas, I don't know or care what your colour or race is. but you blame Marcia Langton and Noel Pearson for something they are trying to solve, not condone.
I have no idea what your second sentence has to do with it.

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 8:21pm

"So far i've seen physical abuse, spitting and verbal threats from the yes mob.
Throw in the rainbow brigade, Dog mask wearing gimps in a public space, pfizer, and a few c grade celebs writing yes on their hands for some sweet cash and finally Kamahl, the entire yes23 campaign is the biggest flop i've even witnessed."

totally!

and you didn't even mention the official campaign...

which has been described as 'abysmal', by yes voters no less...

if that benchong opening the UK official 'yes' campaign was on the official payroll... well... there's no fucking hope...

people like to say the right are unnecessarily antagonistic and out of touch in the so called 'culture wars'...

I beg to differ, there's is no effort whatsoever to find common ground and common sense in contemporary left politics...

just derision and division

andy-mac Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 8:23pm

Supafreak wrote:
burleigh wrote:
I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

So you are siding with the LNP who were in power during covid, yeah that makes sense .

LNP - lying nasty party. :⁠-⁠\

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 8:39pm

Supafreak wrote:
burleigh wrote:
I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

So you are siding with the LNP who were in power during covid, yeah that makes sense .

They were all in bed together during covid. You know this

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 8:44pm

I think 'yes' still has a good chance of winning...

I take polls with a pinch of salt, and I know most of my friends will vote yes... purely on the vibe...

but they (the yes crew) have not conducted themselves very well, and, at this last leg, with them clearly on the back foot... the wigging out isn't serving them well at all...

it was similar in the same sex marriage debate though. with polls taking a sharp turn to the negative, magda zubanski put herself out there and pleaded for some civility, some respect for other's beliefs and opinions...

some listening... less judging...

there has been no such moment here though, no such ballsy vested interest person standing up, no real plea for civility...

it's all bunkers and slurs

I follow mike carlton and jane caro on twitter. no real fan, not at all a hater... never have been for either of them...

but I've got to say, their conduct and attitude is pretty typical of the well to do establishment left ...and it isn't pretty...

I think those two wield more dangerous power, influence, and negative impact going forward than a handful of clueless nazis at some NO rally...

especially if no gets up

australia is tearing itself apart

seemingly for nothing if no gets up

I have huge concerns for oz going forward if no gets up

to borrow a US term... the 'white liberals' and their reaction is my biggest concern...

the self loathing and hate of the other is gonna be all time next level

and it'll be totally unjustified...

the whole campaign and policy aspirations has been a trainwreck!

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 8:56pm

"I've noticed ABC and now Guardian above bring in the Trump/Brexit parallel (called it way earlier, in this very thread). Descent into fractured politics/what is wrong with people - if No wins there will be all sorts of recrimination and basketing of deplorables. There might even be international convict-shaming - be ready for it! What lost those elites their issue/election was being incredibly out of touch with everyday constituents. You don't have to look far to see the same in Australia at present...."

yep!

aloof, totally outa touch, and a little bit loopy...

"convict shaming"

haha, love it when they go there...

indo always goes there when we have a lover's tiff... even though I often agree with the indo perspective... I just laugh...

it just shows how much they do not understand australian culture

and how most indonesian leaders are a bunch of pompous, jealous, class obsessed, born to rule, 'mid' fuckwits...

such a class driven society!

convicts are cool...

(the none murderous ones anyway...)

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 9:16pm

burleigh wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
burleigh wrote:
I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

So you are siding with the LNP who were in power during covid, yeah that makes sense .

They were all in bed together during covid. You know this

It was also the Labor states that went hardest in particular Victoria that was seen by the world as being this crazy authoritarian state, words longest lock downs, police knocking on doors arresting people for social media post, even rubber bullets, tear gas and stun grenades came out and nobody should kid themselves either the authoritarian aspect that happened under LNP federally would have been even worst under Labor, lets not forget Labor actually wanted to pay people to get vaccinated.

Reform Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 9:20pm

Hey Burleigh,
It seems you rely on the backing of others within the 'No foundation' as you mentioned previously and I thought to share this little insight with you, written by a close friend.
Please take this in good faith.

"A happy mind and a clear spirit are inseparable. If you are tuned in with your intuitive mind and know who you are and what you need, you can show the world the real person and, importantly, claim your happiness.

You can be assertive by stating exactly your wishes and expectations with confidence and great inner security. This is not being egotistical. This is how you expect living creatures to be, because it is the only way how the environment can be in the right shape to respond to anyone's needs in the appropriate way.

Although we share a common pool of natural expectations, needs are individual. They need to be
expressed to be answered.

No human being who knows of their self-worth and knows their place in the world would demand
unreasonable things, because we are and can only be happy inside a social, caring environment.

That is our life line. It is your life line. Be part of it, it is expected of you and it is what you expect for your fulfilment.

Secure your share of happiness by your steady integrity.

A little of that refreshing boldness will result in positive feedback from people you deal with."

indo-dreaming Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 9:32pm

sypkan wrote:
"I've noticed ABC and now Guardian above bring in the Trump/Brexit parallel (called it way earlier, in this very thread). Descent into fractured politics/what is wrong with people - if No wins there will be all sorts of recrimination and basketing of deplorables. There might even be international convict-shaming - be ready for it! What lost those elites their issue/election was being incredibly out of touch with everyday constituents. You don't have to look far to see the same in Australia at present...."

yep!

aloof, totally outa touch, and a little bit loopy...

"convict shaming"

haha, love it when they go there...

indo always goes there when we have a lover's tiff... even though I often agree with the indo perspective... I just laugh...

it just shows how much they do not understand australian culture

and how most indonesian leaders are a bunch of pompous, jealous, class obsessed, born to rule, 'mid' fuckwits...

such a class driven society!

convicts are cool...

(the none murderous ones anyway...)

Indonesians outside of Bali dont have much idea about Australia its seen as some back water even if a neigbour, they know a lot more about the USA, i guess due to TV & movies, maybe even Europe more so than Australia due to connection to Holland lot of Indonesians live there. (seems like a lot of Indonesians get scholarships in Europe too)

BTW. Jokowi is a bit different not from elite, maybe upper middle class at best, he was originally a furniture maker, then mayor of Solo(central Java) then Jakarta then president, oh and he was/is also happy to fly on public airlines economy class and a big heavy metal fan, but yeah generally speaking what you say is correct.

burleigh Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 9:27pm

indo-dreaming wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Supafreak wrote:
burleigh wrote:
I know i'm not alone when i say this.

Pre-Covid i would have not given this vote a second thought and voted yes.

Post covid absolutely no way in hell i will vote yes. All trust was ripped away they way politicians openly smiled and lied to the public day after day.

They have made their bed, now lay in it.

So you are siding with the LNP who were in power during covid, yeah that makes sense .

They were all in bed together during covid. You know this

It was also the Labor states that went hardest in particular Victoria that was seen by the world as being this crazy authoritarian state, words longest lock downs, police knocking on doors arresting people for social media post, even rubber bullets, tear gas and stun grenades came out and nobody should kid themselves either the authoritarian aspect that happened under LNP federally would have been even worst under Labor, lets not forget Labor actually wanted to pay people to get vaccinated.

During the covid debates on other forums i really respected Supafreaks posts. He's lost me here though.

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 9:55pm

"BTW. Jokowi is a bit different not from elite, maybe upper middle class at best, he was originally a furniture maker, then mayor of Solo(central Java) then Jakarta then president, oh and he was/is also happy to fly on public airlines economy class and a big heavy metal fan, but yeah generally speaking what you say is correct."

yep, that's why I said "most"

jokowi is cooler than a convict!

clown koster is as 'mid' as they come...

and bali pays the price for his mid-ness...

I really fear for what will come in indo when jokowi's time is up

GuySmiley Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 10:21pm

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/03/indigenous-voice-...

I focus Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 11:10pm

andy-mac wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/03/indigenous-voice-...

No will probably get up, unfortunately in my opinion.
But think it will be pyrrhic victory for Dutton and his party.

Yeah been thinking the same for awhile myself no voters are pretty infatic with their views I have sorted accepted Australians still don't like Aboriginals same as in my childhood sentiment hasn't shifted much unfortunately.

The problem with that sentiment is no focus of inclusion for solutions so nothing will change, that rings loud with Price's finger pointing paternalism all the while telling whites what they want to hear to shore up her political career and status... cringe worthy but it works.

sypkan Tuesday, 3 Oct 2023 at 11:14pm

"In a speech to the Sydney Institute on Tuesday night, Leeser rebuffed claims that the referendum was a “peripheral” issue to economic concerns such as the cost of living – a theme of the no campaign and a common point raised in focus groups and polling."

well... a well to do, not struggling... 'elite' would say that wouldn't he...

"...“It is as false as the argument in this campaign that Aboriginal people are privileged and this referendum is about special treatment and creating two different classes of Australians."

yeh he's right... it's not creating two classes... they already exist!! ...with a gaping gulf in between... but it may just be empowering those already with all the cash!

"Referencing another of the no campaign’s central claims, Leeser said it was “the first ripples of an American style of politics imported to our country”.

“Why does that matter? Because that political culture – across the left and the right – has turned the great bastion of freedom and liberty in the history of the world, the United States, into a nation engaging in a cold civil war, splitting communities and even families,” he said.

“Those American style ripples are damaging the shared project that is Australia.”"

yep... "...across the left and the right..."

that's right and LEFT!

Reform Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 6:29am

Many worthy and accurate comments Sypkan except maybe one.. or two, but interesting and deep observations I certainly take on board.. have a nice day ahead ..Cheers

Fliplid Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 6:37am

@indo

“…try to make them think they are seperate to other Australians, and use that angle to get their vote i think its a low life tactic”

I agree that it was a poor choice of words to start off with but quite clearly his main point is the complete opposite to what the sky host made it out to be. “…we’re all equally Australians and the settler native thing kind of retreats into history……the multicultural communities are Australians”

Isn’t that what both sides of the debate are calling for?

A quick read of the comments on the sky video shows that the sky host has whipped up a frenzy with everyone calling Pearson a racist based solely on just a few seconds of a 2 minute reply. I’d say that sky’s effort is lower than a “low life tactic”, it’s in the sewers

And yet look how many people took the bait so I guess they know what works

Reform Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 7:27am

Fliplid wrote:
@indo

“…try to make them think they are seperate to other Australians, and use that angle to get their vote i think its a low life tactic”

I agree that it was a poor choice of words to start off with but quite clearly his main point is the complete opposite to what the sky host made it out to be. “…we’re all equally Australians and the settler native thing kind of retreats into history……the multicultural communities are Australians”

Isn’t that what both sides of the debate are calling for?

A quick read of the comments on the sky video shows that the sky host has whipped up a frenzy with everyone calling Pearson a racist based solely on just a few seconds of a 2 minute reply. I’d say that sky’s effort is lower than a “low life tactic”, it’s in the sewers

And yet look how many people took the bait so I guess they know what works

Pearson was being ironic when he talked about the Multicultural's, a bit of sarcasm that he could have made clearer but it was in no way derogatory, he was inclusive with all on that point. And for the part that I watched his message was from a man of great worth and integrity.
If Indo wants to keep pushing down that path he is deluding himself and cementing in place an attitude for others not to trust him. Cheers. Indo c'mon now..dont go down that road mate..

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 7:34am

@Fliplid

Lets just agree to disagree, i didn't see it that way.

Media always trys to spin things in a way to try to create drama and appeal to their readers, its just how it is, yeah Sky are one of the worst but all media do it even media like ABC, it wasn't that long ago they were trying to paint concerned resident in Alice Springs as “white supremacists”.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/abc-showed-bias-in-alice-...

@Reform

Noel is clearly a very smart man, he 100% knew what he was doing and IMHO it was a low life tactic, but yeah lets just agree to disagree, not worth going back and forth over.

andy-mac Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 7:46am

Fliplid wrote:
@indo

“…try to make them think they are seperate to other Australians, and use that angle to get their vote i think its a low life tactic”

I agree that it was a poor choice of words to start off with but quite clearly his main point is the complete opposite to what the sky host made it out to be. “…we’re all equally Australians and the settler native thing kind of retreats into history……the multicultural communities are Australians”

Isn’t that what both sides of the debate are calling for?

A quick read of the comments on the sky video shows that the sky host has whipped up a frenzy with everyone calling Pearson a racist based solely on just a few seconds of a 2 minute reply. I’d say that sky’s effort is lower than a “low life tactic”, it’s in the sewers

And yet look how many people took the bait so I guess they know what works

Sky, Fox, Murdoch, it's their MO. Create anger, spread bullshit and divide. It has been a very successful business model for the dirty digger for years. This is just its latest project.
At last there is starting to be a bit of blow back against the crap with the Dominion law suit, Crikey and others in the pipeline apparently.
Really with the track record of Murdoch (hacking dead girls phone etc) it is amazing that and any reasonable person pays any attention to the venom that is written in his papers or broadcasted.
As for Dean, Bolt, Albertson etc what a bunch of horrible people.
Anyway I'm voting Yes for a step towards unity and it is the right and kind thing to do.

gsco Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 7:56am

- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go to push The Voice.

It needs to be shut down.

indo-dreaming Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 8:02am

sypkan wrote:
"Referencing another of the no campaign’s central claims, Leeser said it was “the first ripples of an American style of politics imported to our country”.

“Why does that matter? Because that political culture – across the left and the right – has turned the great bastion of freedom and liberty in the history of the world, the United States, into a nation engaging in a cold civil war, splitting communities and even families,” he said.

“Those American style ripples are damaging the shared project that is Australia.”"

yep... "...across the left and the right..."

that's right and LEFT!

Importing tactics from the USA has also been a tactic of the yes camp.

We know in the USA celebrities and business is often used to push/sell politics.

And it started over a year ago in August 2022 with Albo and the use of NBA star Shaquille O’Neal trying to sell the voice, and it's been the same deal ever since, celebrities, musicians, sporting clubs, big business, little information but lots of look who endorses this, if if its good for them then you must jump on board.

Then there came the shaming and name calling, chicken littles, racist, trump like, all USA style tactics many "deplorables" moments.

IMHO the whole endorsement thing in Australia is far less likely to work than it might in the USA though, we dont have that culture and we dont like being preached too or shamed, having a celebrity or business tell us how to vote is just as likely to put us off and for people to go fuck you, im voting No.

Even the AFL who proudly supported the voice when polling was high, kept the voice totally out of the grandfinal, there wasn't even a voice ad on TV breaks. (smart move Aussies dont like mixing politics with sport)

BTW. First time i noticed a real import of USA politics/social politics to Australia was the whole BLM rallies and we have continued to see these imports ever since even weird shit like drag queens reading books to kids in libraries.

andy-mac Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 7:59am

gsco wrote:
- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. I even saw an article the other day about lies and misinformation in the media reporting in The Voice and then it proceeded to claim that it's the No side doing it, and even tried to link the No side to Russian and Chinese bots and foreign interference. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go.

It needs to be shut down.

Pfft.
ABC is so biased it never has a majority of Newscorpe journos on any of their programs and gives soft interviews to any LNP pollie. Oh wait.
Guess they would appear left wing when you are down an extreme right wing rabbit hole of conspiracy theory of woke communist world domination.

gsco Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 8:12am

andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. I even saw an article the other day about lies and misinformation in the media reporting in The Voice and then it proceeded to claim that it's the No side doing it, and even tried to link the No side to Russian and Chinese bots and foreign interference. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go.

It needs to be shut down.

Pfft.
ABC is so biased it never has a majority of Newscorpe journos on any of their programs and gives soft interviews to any LNP pollie. Oh wait.
Guess they would appear left wing when you are down an extreme right wing rabbit hole of conspiracy theory of woke communist world domination.

Your (and the ABC's) socialist/western Marxist rabbit hole is the biggest and most dangerous of them all.

It would take a complete, large scale and comprehensive corporate restructuring and cultural transformation and makeover of the ABC for it to approach something resembling neutrality, balance and factuality.

burleigh Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 8:05am

I focus wrote:
andy-mac wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/03/indigenous-voice-...

No will probably get up, unfortunately in my opinion.
But think it will be pyrrhic victory for Dutton and his party.

Yeah been thinking the same for awhile myself no voters are pretty infatic with their views I have sorted accepted Australians still don't like Aboriginals same as in my childhood sentiment hasn't shifted much unfortunately.

The problem with that sentiment is no focus of inclusion for solutions so nothing will change, that rings loud with Price's finger pointing paternalism all the while telling whites what they want to hear to shore up her political career and status... cringe worthy but it works.

Another one doing more damage than good. Sure there will be some racists that are voting no, but I bet they would be the majority of no voters.

Calling all no voters racists shows just how little you understand

Fliplid Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 8:28am

My main point indo was more to do with how the message is being portrayed. Everyone has their opinion and that's fine. However by manipulating what Pearson said and the argument he was trying to make sky has effectively distorted the true meaning of his message so now there are people who are getting all worked up over a lie when with a little effort, or better still, if it had been reported truthfully, they could have found out what was actually said. Multiply this scenario by a thousand and you end up with the shit show we have.

And yes, the ABC does it as well and they're definitely not helping the yes vote with some of their claims and assumptions.

andy-mac Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 9:14am

gsco wrote:
andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. I even saw an article the other day about lies and misinformation in the media reporting in The Voice and then it proceeded to claim that it's the No side doing it, and even tried to link the No side to Russian and Chinese bots and foreign interference. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go.

It needs to be shut down.

Pfft.
ABC is so biased it never has a majority of Newscorpe journos on any of their programs and gives soft interviews to any LNP pollie. Oh wait.
Guess they would appear left wing when you are down an extreme right wing rabbit hole of conspiracy theory of woke communist world domination.

Your (and the ABC's) socialist/western Marxist rabbit hole is the biggest and most dangerous of them all.

It would take a complete, large scale and comprehensive corporate restructuring and cultural transformation and makeover of the ABC for it to approach something resembling neutrality, balance and factuality.

For the record, I am not a major fan of the ABC, rarely watch except sometimes the news and some specials such as Tim Winton's Ningaloo etc.
That they are part of a Marxist communist plot for world domination however is fanciful thinking. Haven't got time to check out but most of their board are LNP appointees are they not?
Have they gone

gsco Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 9:51am

andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. I even saw an article the other day about lies and misinformation in the media reporting in The Voice and then it proceeded to claim that it's the No side doing it, and even tried to link the No side to Russian and Chinese bots and foreign interference. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go.

It needs to be shut down.

Pfft.
ABC is so biased it never has a majority of Newscorpe journos on any of their programs and gives soft interviews to any LNP pollie. Oh wait.
Guess they would appear left wing when you are down an extreme right wing rabbit hole of conspiracy theory of woke communist world domination.

Your (and the ABC's) socialist/western Marxist rabbit hole is the biggest and most dangerous of them all.

It would take a complete, large scale and comprehensive corporate restructuring and cultural transformation and makeover of the ABC for it to approach something resembling neutrality, balance and factuality.

For the record, I am not a major fan of the ABC, rarely watch except sometimes the news and some specials such as Tim Winton's Ningaloo etc.
That they are part of a Marxist communist plot for world domination however is fanciful thinking. Haven't got time to check out but most of their board are LNP appointees are they not?
Have they gone

At any moment in time the global Marxist left is always at work trying to realise its goals. To deny that would be completely bizarre. It would be equally bizarre to deny that it's happening in Australia.

There is some good statements in the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on Western Marxism: "if the economic collapse of capitalism can no longer be regarded as inevitable, who are the agents who can be expected to carry through a socialist transformation?" and as a result, Western Marxism was created by people "who focused their attention on the cultural as opposed to the economic aspects of capitalism.". Also from the Encyclopedia Britannica entry: "Western Marxism has been shaped primarily by the failure of the socialist revolution in the Western world. Western Marxists were concerned less with the actual political or economic practice of Marxism."

Since coming back to Australia I've been trying to work out what the hell is happening in the West and what the hell this weird new age progressive left thing is that's sweeping through our corporate world and public institutions etc with its focus on culture and identity wars and activism, and on social justice activism. Well it's obvious what it is.

Every time I click on the ABC website I see a multitude of new articles every day pushing these Western Marxism themes and it engaging in full on social justice and culture wars activism. The ABC is leading the charge with the culture and identity wars activism in Australia. It's sickening.

The Voice is simply Australia's first large scale iteration of the rollout of the new age progressive left's Western Marxism culture wars and social justice activism that is spewing out of the US and across Western civilisation, with the ALP and ABC unashamedly and enthusiastically leading the charge.

But deny it and try to character assassinate me all you like...wateva...it really doesn't faze me...

sypkan Wednesday, 4 Oct 2023 at 10:55am

gsco wrote:
andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
andy-mac wrote:
gsco wrote:
- Trump & US politics in general
- covid
- Ukraine war & Russia
- economic issues (RBA & monetary policy, cost of living/inflation, housing affordability, etc)
- immigration
- corporate/business sector
- China
- Aukus
- Australian politics
- political and economic ideology
- race & ethnicity, lgbtqia+, sex & feminism, gender, boomers, Christianity, privileged white males, etc, issues
- The Voice
- climate change
- ...etc...

where does the list start and end...?

The ABC is not just extremely biased and one-sided on all issues of the day: it's outright activist.

It's deep in the trenches left progressive social justice and culture wars, and anti centre-right/conservative/LNP, activist, with no shame.

I've been absolutely shocked at the disgraceful content its website is spewing out about The Voice. I even saw an article the other day about lies and misinformation in the media reporting in The Voice and then it proceeded to claim that it's the No side doing it, and even tried to link the No side to Russian and Chinese bots and foreign interference. There is no limit to how low the ABC will go.

It needs to be shut down.

Pfft.
ABC is so biased it never has a majority of Newscorpe journos on any of their programs and gives soft interviews to any LNP pollie. Oh wait.
Guess they would appear left wing when you are down an extreme right wing rabbit hole of conspiracy theory of woke communist world domination.

Your (and the ABC's) socialist/western Marxist rabbit hole is the biggest and most dangerous of them all.

It would take a complete, large scale and comprehensive corporate restructuring and cultural transformation and makeover of the ABC for it to approach something resembling neutrality, balance and factuality.

For the record, I am not a major fan of the ABC, rarely watch except sometimes the news and some specials such as Tim Winton's Ningaloo etc.
That they are part of a Marxist communist plot for world domination however is fanciful thinking. Haven't got time to check out but most of their board are LNP appointees are they not?
Have they gone

At any moment in time the global Marxist left is always at work trying to realise its goals. To deny that would be completely bizarre. It would be equally bizarre to deny that it's happening in Australia.

There is some good statements in the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on Western Marxism: "if the economic collapse of capitalism can no longer be regarded as inevitable, who are the agents who can be expected to carry through a socialist transformation?" and as a result, Western Marxism was created by people "who focused their attention on the cultural as opposed to the economic aspects of capitalism.". Also from the Encyclopedia Britannica entry: "Western Marxism has been shaped primarily by the failure of the socialist revolution in the Western world. Western Marxists were concerned less with the actual political or economic practice of Marxism."

Since coming back to Australia I've been trying to work out what the hell is happening in the West and what the hell this weird new age progressive left thing is that's sweeping through our corporate world and public institutions etc with its focus on culture and identity wars and activism, and on social justice activism. Well it's obvious what it is.

Every time I click on the ABC website I see a multitude of new articles every day pushing these Western Marxism themes and it engaging in full on social justice and culture wars activism. The ABC is leading the charge with the culture and identity wars activism in Australia. It's sickening.

The Voice is simply Australia's first large scale iteration of the rollout of the new age progressive left's Western Marxism culture wars and social justice activism that is spewing out of the US and across Western civilisation, with the ALP and ABC unashamedly and enthusiastically leading the charge.

But deny it and try to character assassinate me all you like...wateva...it really doesn't faze me...

you don't think it is just the same as it has always been?

ie.

the communist party has always had strong supporters in the unions

the abc has always been unashamedly left

the universities have also always been totally stacked with left academics (some faculties)

the nutty environmentalists have always been totally anti capitalist

etc. etc.

i think the real difference now is the absolute obsession with identity over and above everything else

which clearly comes from decades of uni indoctrination and activism - of the 'privelaged' ironically...

but yeh, people can feel a big push coming from way way up higher - which is not normal at all..

first
previous
…
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
…
next
last

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Quick Links

About

User