The United States(!) of A
Yeh but they are not, within any remotely acceptable definition, fascists. See if you can find a definition that fits.
PS: Not one you made up.
blindboy wrote:Yeh but they are not, within any remotely acceptable definition, fascists. See if you can find a definition that fits.
PS: Not one you made up.
Yes and neither are the imaginary fascist that Antifa oppose, which is basically anyone.
Thats the problem the boogie men they oppose dont even exist, their idea of fascism and fascist is completely made up, they are just looking for an excuse to cause unrest and social disobedience because they are just losers without purpose or direction and need something to fill that gap thinking they are on some mission.
So you were wrong. Thanks Indo.
The meaning of fascist and fascism seems to have evolved over the years.
If you go with the traditional meaning, well there is no fascist and Antifa are pointless.
If you go with the more modern meaning, well Antifa are more the fascist than anyone else.
BTW. Only reason you give them a free pass is because some claim them as a left wing group, they aren't really they are opposed to any government or party, but if the media came out and labeled them a far right group tomorrow, you would start a new thread every week on them.
"the more modern meaning"
Please supply this.
ID,
Tell me again who the real fascists are: The white supremacists marching with tiki torches saying "The jews will not replace us" or the people who opposed them?
What about the insurgents who stormed the Capital on Jan 6 because they refused to admit Trump lost the election? Are they fascists or are the people who are holding that mob to account the big threat to US democracy?
Fair dinkum ID, I'm happy to tolerate some of your ideas, but this "Antifa are the real fascists" nonsense makes you look batshit crazy. Your ability to ignore the huge problem of racist, anti-government, violent right wing extremists in the USA, while losing sleep over Antifa is just weird.
blindboy wrote:"the more modern meaning"
Please supply this.
The traditional meaning of fascism is a right wing dictatorship that shares many elements of communism as shown below, they are both very terrible ideologies.
However today to be called a fascist is used more of a slur, against anyone who tries to prevent free speech.
It's lost much of it's political meaning and basically taken those central elements, most people today call someone a fascist not implying they are in support of some right wing totalitarian government, but implying they are against free speech, anti democracy, anti individual.
Vic Local wrote:ID,
Tell me again who the real fascists are: The white supremacists marching with tiki torches saying "The jews will not replace us" or the people who opposed them?
What about the insurgents who stormed the Capital on Jan 6 because they refused to admit Trump lost the election? Are they fascists or are the people who are holding that mob to account the big threat to US democracy?
Fair dinkum ID, I'm happy to tolerate some of your ideas, but this "Antifa are the real fascists" nonsense makes you look batshit crazy. Your ability to ignore the huge problem of racist, anti-government, violent right wing extremists in the USA, while losing sleep over Antifa is just weird.
The big problem here is 99.99999% of conservatives dont support white supremist or Neo Nazis or far right extremists, they condemn them and their ideologies and they are as rare as hens teeth.
The problem is a very large number of so called progressives support Antifa or turn a blind eye to them even politicians, which is crazy they are a danger to society, caused much unrest and destruction, regularly use violence and intimidation and have even killed people. (above is a video of them attacking Christians in a park that included people of colour and women and children)
In regard to those that were at the Capital, yeah it would be fair to call some of the more radical fascist but where do you draw the line?, there was many that didn't accept Trump being elected and hit the street smashing things up, what are they?
BTW. Even people like Joe Rogan have said Antifa are closer to fascist than those they oppose and he identifies as a progressive.
Well maybe but when words are used that loosely we lose the ability to be precise and cannot distinguish between a mob provoked by generations of discrimination and violence against them such as BLM, and the mob of more traditional fascists who stormed the Capital as a direct attack on democracy.
Where did you come up with that figure indo? 99.9999% of whatever? Is that a fact or a hunch? I’m going to call bullshit on your comparison between conservatives and liberals on this front.
I’d suggest that while very few people of a conservative bent are going to go public and identify with / support Neo-Nazis, Far Right groups, some (many more than 0.00001%) exhibit sympathies for the cause, or some of the actions, or share the grievances if not the ideology. I’m also going to call bullshit on your assertion that they consistently call out the ideology. They do, sometimes, when their hand is forced.
Now, I will concede that behaviour of some groups and individuals associated with Antifa is inexcusable too. And shouldn’t be given a free pass. But that’s not what you were saying.
"The big problem here is 99.99999% of conservatives dont support white supremist or Neo Nazis or far right extremists,"
Well we all know that that statement is complete and utter bullshit. The Trump organisation actively courted the far right. He excused their racism, he embraced scum like Bannon, and his favourite TV channel actively pushed alt-right great replacement theories. Many of his sponsors also supported alt right causes and funded deeply racist activists / media.
Despite Trump being a racist turd who was in bed with the far right, 71 million people still voted for the scumbag.
Now I've lived in the USA and I can tell you first hand more than .00001% of Americans hold deeply racist opinions. I made a bad cut on a job site once and the carpenter said "it looks like a nigger cut this" much to the laughs of the other tradies. And that was in a very progressive state. So no, it's not .00001%. Racism is absolutely commonplace.
ID, your ability to dismiss America's far right as some tiny minority just doesn't stack up. American conservatives either actively embrace racism or are happy to tolerate it. There was virtually no condemnation of the far right by conservatives. Trump even said they were "very fine people".
But hey, just you ignore all the heavily armed militias in the USA, ignore the far right hate crimes, ignore Jan 6, ignore the fact the GOP actively embraces racism, ignore the fact many white supremacist groups are deemed terrorist organisations and you just worry about Antifa you complete weirdo.
It's very hard to prove or disprove a percentage, but the point is it's very very rare for people to openly support white supremest or Neo Nazis or Far right extremist. (i think most will agree these views are very rare)
The flip side is people openly support Antifa even politicians, and like it or not the facts are they cause much much more mayhem and destruction than any far right group. i mean imagine if a far right group took over a whole block like CHAZ, or hit the streets like in Portland where police regularly declared riots in 2020, it just doesn't happen, there just isn't anywhere near the number of people involved in these things as there are people involved in groups like Antifa.
If far right group violence happens, yeah sure its serious but its generally small groups and individuals.
And VL as much as i condone any form of racism even if casual, casual racism like laughing at a racist joke doesn't exactly make someone a white supremest or neo nazi or far right extremist, my wife just like many Indonesians has quite casual racist views towards black people or Chinese and sure isn't involved in any of these groups. (Ironically she has quite good friends that are African and Chinese)
And i will openly admit when i was younger i made and laughed at racist jokes, and i think if people are honest they did too. I work on job sites and in all honestly i rarely hear that stuff now though and if i did id say something to let the know its not cool.
The groups you call far right, assume like proud Boys or Patriot prayers are more nationalist groups with many coloured members as we all know the leader of the proud boys is of mixed race Cuban/Afro American one of their chapters is almost all Latino.
You're fully clutching at straws.
As for Trump, for a Republican he did alright with the black vote which actually increased from 2016 (8%) to 2020(12%) to find a higher black vote for a republican you have to go back to 1980 when it was 14%. (so 40 years)
His minority groups vote also increased and was quite high just a little under what Bush got.
But hey "you aint black if you vote for Trump" right?
The problem you have Indo is that you bought into the label 'Antifa' being promoted by Fox News and the like, and now a year or so later you have educated yourself somewhat as to the meaning and history of fascism and come to the realization the 'Portland' crowd were not anti fascists but just people intent on fucking shit up, who like you and Fox and even some amongst them, adopted a label that was inappropriate and stuck to it no matter what. Again I say in it's strict meaning, Antifa were English and European nationalist punks that would fight neo-nazi punks, it is a bit dated now anyway and it is not really an American thing per se. Just a scary name to spook the horses that are glued to Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon and co. and create a bogey man in heads like yours.
"If far right group violence happens, yeah sure its serious but its generally small groups and individuals."
Let me break down this absolute nonsense by Indo Dreaming.
It starts badly with the word "if". It should start with "When". Far right terrorism has a very long history in the USA and it is rapidly increasing with Trump. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-...
About the only thing he gets right is saying it's "serious". I would have used the term "lethal" because well ya know. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/03/active-shooter-cielo-vi...
As for "small groups and individuals" well yes, that's who generally does the killing, but they are cheered on by a much larger group of extremists. These right wing extremists are radicalised online by hate groups with thousands upon thousands of members.
And it's not always small groups is it. Thousands stormed the capitol, and hundreds of heavily armed militia men have been involved in multiple standoffs with law enforcement. Groups like the 3 percenters, oath keepers, Proud Boys, and multiple state militias have thousand upon thousands of members.
ID, you like to think that individual right wing terrorists just pop up out of thin air. That's simply not the case. They've been radicalised online by much larger groups.
By your standards, I could say the 21 terrorists that brought down the twin towers were just a small group, but we all know that's bullshit. You like to pretend the far right are not organised in the USA. Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. They are structured, well connected, well funded and there's even a bunch of absolute right wing lunatics in Congress and the Senate.
But hey if you want to pretend that right wing extremism in the USA is just a few bad apples, good luck to you.
You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?
Yep
However I love the design articles.
Viclocal - you say "You like to pretend the far right are not organised in the USA. Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. They are structured, well connected, well funded and there's even a bunch of absolute right wing lunatics in Congress and the Senate."
You are probably right .
But the far left out number the far right 20 to 1 plus . Without trying I can name the Squad , many in the media , judiciary , universities ( critical race theories ) , big tech , here the Greens and some unions the list is endless . The far left are the best a violent demos and are proud of it .
"But hey if you want to pretend that left wing extremism in the USA is just a few bad apples, good luck to you."
@VL
When you can show me far right groups causing havoc night after night, destroying billions in property, taking over whole blocks like CHAZ, burning down police stations etc, i will start listening to you, but it just doesn't happen, we have serious but isolated incidents involving individuals or small groups of people.
Other than that, you have one event the Capitol and apart from a small group at the front all the footage clearly shows middle aged men casually walking around getting selfies with police etc.
If it was Antifa or BLM, that place would have been burnt to the ground.
And Adam, you are clearly uneducated on what Antifa are today and the havoc they cause, go update yourself then come back and we can talk.
zenagain wrote:You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?
ha ha Sorry.
"You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?"
yeh, viclocal still pushing the CNN fake news propaganda, ...well after it's been well and truly debunked...
still...
again...
and indodreaming tirelessly calling out the endless bullshit ...the endless propagandaist bullshit, from those that supposedly 'don't like bullshit'...
again...
still...
sypkan wrote:"You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?"
yeh, viclocal still pushing the CNN fake news propaganda well after it's been debunked...
still...
again...
and indodreaming tirelessly calling out the endless bullshit ...from those that supposedly 'don't like bullshit'...
again...
still...
Ha ha this is a good excuse to share the classic 2020 meme that made itself. (not edited just a screenshot)
and, you can argue over labels all you want...
labels that have been weaponised by the propagandaists... but I'll judge a person or group on their behaviour, and i see some pretty gross fsscist tendencies coming from some pretty deranged and deluded entities....
call it what you want... but it certainly ain't peace, love, and 'tolerance'...
carry on
indo-dreaming wrote:Ha ha this is a good excuse to share the classic 2020 meme that made itself. (not edited just a screenshot)
not actually what I was referring to...
but yes, that really never does get old... for some of us...
the fact that it is a totally unedited, totally undoctored, screenshot, just adds to the gold...
(these people really have lost all capacity of self awareness and ability at self reflection... ...so far gone, it's mind blowing actually!)
Whatever blokes.
You won't read the following link which is a rock solid source for information about terrorism in the USA
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
So I will just copy and past some key findings.
"In comparison, right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 deaths, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethnonationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths."
"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020."
But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. And I will let you know another secret, RW terrorism in Australia is also increasing. There's been plenty of arrests lately too. Not to forgot the Australian scumbag who murdered 51 in Christchurch. But judging from your rants, you blokes don't have a problem with that massacre (none of you even mention it) but you do freak out about Antifa.
I know one death is too many but would you care to quantify or at least acknowledge the destruction to peoples property and businesses? What price would you put on that?
Mate of mine co-owned a restaurant/eatery in NYC during the BLM riots or whatever it was. Place was looted and torched. He almost topped himself. Now, broke with four kids. He's moved to Stamford CT and is now struggling behind a grill living hand to mouth.
I'm guessing he's not the only one.
Fascists and radical thinking occur on the left and the right. It is silly to throw rocks from one side to the other. Constantly referring to the excesses of the guys you don't like is deflection and gaslighting. It is for children and sociopaths. But, then, i have learned very quickly that this crew has an abundance of the former. Can't speak to the latter. Don't know any of you. Thank god. It is laughable to see this much noise and this many Righteous Opinions (we are on page 97 of this thread now) on a country that many have never even visited. When you don't really know, better to say that than anything else. I don't really know Oz. I can read history, form opinions, etc... but i don't really know because i have not lived and experienced it. And i don't mean you were here for a month 10 years ago, or you used to travel for business here. So, because i recognize that i don't really know Oz.. i go to lengths not to comment on it's issue and policies. Who am i to do that? And, again, here we are. Page 97. And most of it is drivel. But good on ya mates. Keep bein yourselves.
zenagain wrote:I know one death is too many but would you care to quantify or at least acknowledge the destruction to peoples property and businesses? What price would you put on that?
Mate of mine co-owned a restaurant/eatery in NYC during the BLM riots or whatever it was. Place was looted and torched. He almost topped himself. Now, broke with four kids. He's moved to Stamford CT and is now struggling behind a grill living hand to mouth.
I'm guessing he's not the only one.
Sad story and not the first time ive read of a story like that, there is a much bigger picture.
Vic Local wrote:Whatever blokes.
You won't read the following link which is a rock solid source for information about terrorism in the USA
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
So I will just copy and past some key findings.
"In comparison, right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 deaths, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethnonationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths."
"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020."
But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. And I will let you know another secret, RW terrorism in Australia is also increasing. There's been plenty of arrests lately too. Not to forgot the Australian scumbag who murdered 51 in Christchurch. But judging from your rants, you blokes don't have a problem with that massacre (none of you even mention it) but you do freak out about Antifa.
Clearly from this article what is defined as Right wing terrorism is pretty loose.
"First, right-wing terrorism refers to the use or threat of violence by sub-national or non-state entities whose goals may include racial or ethnic supremacy; opposition to government authority; anger at women, including from the incel (“involuntary celibate”) movement; and outrage against certain policies, such as abortion.6 This analysis uses the term “right-wing terrorism” rather than “racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism,” or REMVE, which is used by some in the U.S. government."
I mean seriously " opposition to government authority" or "anger at women" is right wing?
In the past we just labeled most of these people, nut jobs, often just mentally ill in some way often not receiving the treatment they need, classic example Martin Bryant whom today would be labeled a far right terrorist as would many others of the past even though they really dont have any political type leanings economical or social.
These days clearly Right wing terrorist is basically the other box when they dont fit into either "Far left terrorist" or "Radical islam terrorist"
BTW. The NZ shooter was similar, yeah sure you could label some of his views far right, but he had a very weird mish mash of views many left leaning, i just think he was a nutcase.
"Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/03/18/christchurch-new-zeala...
"But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. "
yeh, it's we that 'don't do facts' ...mate you spread the most perverse bullshit ever...
your posts above are full of misinformation and hyperbole... they always are... but it's you that... 'calls out bulllshit'... whatever dude...
'one shameful riot'
...that went for four months...
is that 'one riot'? ...or 128 days of rioting?
sounds more like a war than a shameful little day to me...
and mate, your labels are all over the shop, they are just as cooked as your perspective
fwiw, some of us don't 'freak out about antifa' at all...
we freak out about the media denial, misinformation, and cover up that went on for months and months...
and was only reined in, when polling found it was actually damaging the democrat party... now there's some cynical shit manipulations... ...then, magically... overnight... the 'peaceful protests' that were unable, under any circumstances whatsoever, to be called anything but... (unless one wanted to excommunicate oneself...) miraculously were referred to as 'violent' and for the more adventurous... 'rioting'...
it's the hyperbole, misrepresentation, misinformation, false labelling, and blame shifting that pisses some of us off...
and you are the master at it
you and a couple of your mates on here
and I really wonder what it is you think you are achieving... as you preach to your choir... signal to your tribe... pump your little egos... whilst only raising the vitriol, outrageousness, divisiveness, and the dangerous gulf of accepted reality with your opponents... who you will never ever win over anyway...
because I believe most people are very similar to me... they look at whats happening... and they look at you... and they look at your opponents.... and they think, what a bunch of deranged, void of reality, hate filled fucking morons!! ...all of them!!!!
I don't want anything to do with any of these fuckwits and the hate and divisiveness they are peddling...
and I will actively rail, campaign, and vote against anyone that spreads their propaganda, represents them, or generally is not living in reality, to further a political agenda...
I don't give a shit who's right, who's 'right', or who's 'left'... because these terms mean pretty much nothing in the corrupted contemporary media and political landscape... as you prove to me every single day on here...
but you carry on...
in your quest of hate, division, and misrepresentation...
a quest that just pushes the voters you need (people like me) further and further away...
just carry on...
'winning'
"I mean seriously " opposition to government authority" or "anger at women" is right wing?"
exactly!!!
had a little chuckle when vicvocal wrote 'anti government' like it's a bad thing...
I remember a time... not so long ago...
"BTW. The NZ shorter was similar, yeah sure you could label some of his views far right, but he had a very weird mish mash of views many left leaning
"Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”"
ssshhhhhhh
we don't talk about that...
('we' being the collective left that once was...)
Talking to yourself again slippery.
Hay Wax24, I've been to the USA five times over the years and my personal experience has been nothing but positive. Practically every American that I've come into contact with have been friendly, happy and nothing but welcoming. I think the US is a great country and we of course we all have problems no matter where we come from. But if anything in my own subjective way, I find Americans are proud and for the most part optimistic towards the future. Quite the contrast to what you may read on here from time to time cobber.
'Talking to yourself again slippery.'
certainly not talking to you... I thought we had an arrangement...
again...
"anger at women" or incel terrorism is predominantly a right wing thing. ID, if you had any idea about the topic you are discussing, you'd know this.
I actually studied this shit and have written about it for a few publications, and have been to a few conferences.
The anger at women is because young men who can't get laid, blame others for their failings. They typically point the finger at feminists, gays, lesbians, and progressives who steer women away from "trad wife" lifestyles. So yes, it's typically a right wing thing.
Here's the point blokes. Authorities in English speaking western nations take terrorism very seriously and they invest their time and effort in the most pressing areas. There's a reason why they are focussing on right wing terrorism and not left wing terrorism. It's the racist nationalists who are a much bigger threat.
That's something you are just going to have to accept.
ok vicvocal, with all your learned edumacation and stuff...
tell me, a number, a percentage, how many people at the capitol riot were 'terrorists'?
zenagain wrote:Hay Wax24, I've been to the USA five times over the years and my personal experience has been nothing but positive. Practically every American that I've come into contact with have been friendly, happy and nothing but welcoming. I think the US is a great country and we of course we all have problems no matter where we come from. But if anything in my own subjective way, I find Americans are proud and for the most part optimistic towards the future. Quite the contrast to what you may read on here from time to time cobber.
Very easy to have a fantastic time in the US, and I’ve had many, by sticking to nice places and not looking under the carpet. But this is an inaccurate, superficial, naive and biased view of the reality of the country.
The moment you start sniffing and scratching around beneath the surface you immediately run into some horrible foul smells that few other countries have. We don’t want any of that stuff in Australia.
I found, and still find, most Americans to be self-entitled, self-important, self-centred and believe that they and the US are far superior to every other human and country on the planet.
and remember that 'right wing terrorist' plot to kidnap an american senator?
talk about that...
enlighten us...
Vic Local wrote:I actually studied this shit and have written about it for a few publications, and have been to a few conferences.
.
Please god no, and wasn't BB a teacher maybe even university level?
And we had Herc writing about indigenous stuff didn't we?
It's seriously scary that these are the type of people and views that are influencing peoples kids and generally society, it's no wonder shit is getting so messed up.
and maybe brendan tarrent's right wing environmentalism...
Maybe naive gsco but believe it or not, I've been around (and not just to Disneyland).
You blokes can't handle the fact that right wing terrorism is a major threat in the USA and authorities are now spending an increasing amount of time and effort on that increasing threat. That's why you just leap to personal abuse. You also spend a ridiculous amount of time creating an alternative reality where the neo-nazis aren't that bad and Antifa is the big threat. It's an intellectually bankrupt approach, but I know that's how you guys roll.
BTW zenagain, I fully understand why you have a great impression of Americans. They are exceptionally hospitable to visitors to their country. That doesn't change the fact the country has some serious flaws. If you lived there, you'd know the flaws can't be papered over with welcoming smiles and misplaced optimism.
sypkan wrote:and maybe brendan tarrent's right wing environmentalism...
Seriously sypkan, that is just ridiculous and so offensive.
Hey wax24. I get your point. It must be galling to read some of the claptrap on here. I’ve added my 2 cents here and there, so add me to the pile.
But, There’s something very different about the world looking at the US from the inverse. Of course there are more opinions on these forums than on a US-based forum about Australia. There’s just so much US cultural influence and residue throughout western culture, and especially the Anglosphere. Is it unsurprising? Aussie kids are raised on a TV diet of US crime drama, comedy, news influences, and even sport. Aussie kids watch NBA, follow NFL teams etc etc. I’ve seen more heated debates about the US election than our own. Like, real life office debates. It’s all so accessible now. More than ever.
The other reason for the degree of emotional investment is that I think Aussies genuinely want the US to be what it claims to be. It’s hard to see it so divided. I think it is at an inflection point.
I’ve been to the US more than 10 times, often for months at a time, for work. NC, FL, HI, DC, CO, PA, VA. Traveled thru plenty more states. I’ve lived in the US for a year, 2008, in NC. My wife lived in the US for 8 years, NY and MA. I’ve got some great Seppo mates, both here in Australia and in the US. I’d say most of them are on the small c conservative side of the ledger. Even the Democrats…
I wouldn’t say that I’m particularly well qualified to make judgements about America writ large. But who is?
It’s a really hard place to make generalizations about. That’s one of its strengths. I was constantly challenged and confounded. My assumptions overturned. I appreciate you being on these forums because it adds another voice beyond the usual chorus.
Cool post Eta aod Vic, you didn't answer my question.
Personally, I think you overstate the threat and conveniently fail to address the inverse.
But, we've been all over this before so I won't ask you to.
well if you find it too offensive that 'the left' like to claim the environment and sustainability as exclusively theirs...
perhaps you can answer how many people at the capital riot were terrorists?
or talk about the senator kidnapping plot... you got some serious right wing bashing mileage out of that at the time...
talk about that again
"perhaps you can answer how many people at the capital riot were terrorists?"
What a profoundly stupid question sypkan. It's not like anyone was taking a straw poll of the rabble on Jan 6..
I deal in facts. Yes there is left wing terrorism, but there's way more right wing terrorism in the USA. This is shown by the number of arrests, attacks, and convictions. You boys like to point to individual crimes by "the left" in a ridiculous display of whataboutism. I point to measurable facts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-...
Here's a challenge. If you think I'm wrong when I say RW terrorism in the USA is a much bigger problem than LW terrorism come up with a link with facts and figures showing I'm wrong, from a credible source. You need to link an actual study, not an opinion piece. Until you do that, you have no credibility.
oh come on... don't get all facts high and mighty now... its really not your domain... there's a couple of serious mis-facts just a few posts back, but Im avoiding the tedium of you not being accountable...
go on... have a stab...
a heap of them are terrorists?
a few terrorists?
a significant number of terrorists?
organised by terrorists?
and, ...you are so caught up in your own narrative... I don't think you've realised Im not arguing left wing terrorism is significant... geez i don't think even indo is arguing that...
Im arguing, as I've said, numerous times, your labels are all over the shop, on many fronts. and that 'terrorism' has become a rather ambiguous term, geez it was the left that used to say such things... until it became politically convenient for them not to...
the whole research, intelligence, education, government mega complex has become... lets say... err... somewhat lazer focussed...
so focussed in fact, some have argued they're kinda 'willing' events to happen...
not least, it's a matter of if you look hard enough...
but you're all on board with it... with what seems to be gross government overeach, with what seems to be rather authoritarian and quite fascist to be honest... which shouldn't really surprise me, given your past on here...
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank