The United States(!) of A
Reports that Russians getting absolutely hammered trying to withdraw from Kherson.
Crossing points and assembly areas are under artillery fire. Getting uglier.
"The red wave may have turned out to be a red ripple but, despite inflated expectations, it’s not the Republicans who look to have been hardest hit by the midterm election results but the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Assuming that the House is captured by the Republicans, with or without the Senate, it is clear that the progressive policy agenda, the progressive theory of American partisan politics, and the progressive theory of the American constitution are now quite dead..."
not totally a bad thing... from my perspective..
"...Let’s start with the progressive policy agenda. The economic agenda of the Democratic Party today is the “low carbon care economy.” This is a synthesis of the Green New Deal, a crash program to kill the oil and gas industries and replace them with heavily subsidized renewable energy sources, and the American Families Plan, a massive expansion of taxpayer subsidies for institutional child care, universal preschool and elder care. The jobs of the future, in this vision, are divided between a small number of gigs assembling windmills and solar panels which will replace coal, oil, and natural gas in America’s energy mix, and a much greater number of positions in federally subsidized day care centers and retirement homes...
...The cartoon series explains how both Linda, the single mother, and Leo, the fatherless child, will flourish within an expanded system of cradle-to-grave welfare and education subsidies. As the fantasy world of the cartoon suggests, the progressive agenda sought to appeal to different groups of key Democratic Party supporters who do not share many economic interests. To work, the progressive vision had to unite the Democratic Party’s green donor class with overwhelmingly Democrat-supporting service sector unions like the teachers unions and SEIU as well as the “anti-patriarchal” feminists for whom husbands and fathers are unnecessary and oppressive...
...The low carbon care economy is now as dead as a doornail, even if the Republicans end up controlling only one house of Congress. In the unlikely event that the Democrats win another trifecta in the next few electoral cycles, it will be difficult if not impossible, given the impacts of rising energy costs, for Congress to oppose greater extraction and use of oil, natural gas, and even coal in the U.S. Moreover, if there is a turn toward austerity to reduce inflation or the debt built up during the COVID pandemic, the money will not be there for the enormous increase in spending on day care, elder care, preschool and community college that makes up the other half of the progressive agenda. The low carbon care economy blew up on takeoff..."
does anyone really believe this thinking will provide a prosperous sustainable future for generations to come?
I know governments are faced with a huge dilemma engaging and enriching populations in an increasingly automated world where 'real work' of full employment in 9-5 jobs are a thing of the past...
but seriously, this is the best future generations have to look forward to?
this is the best our illustrious leaders have to offer?
with an increasingly unstable world, competition fiercely increasing, blown out energy prices, and mountains of debt, this thinking seems fanciful at best...
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/progressive-agenda-clob...
and, it seems ol' albos gov is endeavouring to roll out an exact carbon copy over here
sorry, but I reckon they're dreaming
“They completely fucked up recruitment,” said Christie Roberts, the executive director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. “We had no business being in the hunt to hold the majority in this environment.”
//www.politico.com/news/2022/11/11/republicans-senate-majority-00066009
And then there was election denial...
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/denying-the-2020-election-wasnt-a-w...
blackers wrote:frog wrote:I suspect the middle ground in the USA don't like Biden / Harris or the state of the nation. Nor would they identify with the MAGA crowd or their candidates.
They were left with no broad appealing option to swing one way or the other or to protest vote. In the end, they probably voted at a local level based on the candidate avoiding the worst of the extremes on either side. This would produce a bunch of coin flips setting the trends rather than a clear national direction.
.Fair assessment, the alternative outcome was these probably didn't even bother. I heard someone from POLITICO speaking about the numbers yesterday; 47% rusted on red and 47%blue, the 6% genuine swing voters determine the outcome.
How rusted on must democrat voters be? Progressive democrat policies taking the country backwards fast and they continue to vote for more of the same. How bad do things have to get?
waveman wrote:Progressive democrat policies taking the country backwards fast
Really interested which policies you are talking about?
Health care?
In the finest traditions of the good ole boys reactionary party DeSantis’ got his gerrymandered victory
Popular yeah nah dodgy hell yeah
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/20/us/politics/florida-redistricting-map...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna24317
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/13/florida-legislature-gove...
.
GuySmiley wrote:In the finest traditions of the good ole boys reactionary party DeSantis’ got his gerrymandered victory
Popular yeah nah dodgy hell yeah
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/20/us/politics/florida-redistricting-map...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna24317
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/13/florida-legislature-gove...
you say that like the other side hasn't done all in their power to manipulate the voting system to their advantage
must be nice to see all so clearly... so black and white..
FFS Sippy, do some resurchin into gerrymandering in the US, no AEC like we have here, up to each state to make the electoral rules, voter suppression on a massive scale has been used by the right for many decades to stop those pesky minorities having a say. Not saying Democrats haven’t played the game but your offering is a false equivalence argument.
I’ve heard it said that without voter suppression/gerrymandering the republicans would be toast.
Land of the free bahahaha
Looks like left leaning media and Guy have found their new boogie man.
GuySmiley wrote:FFS Sippy, do some resurchin into gerrymandering in the US, no AEC like we have here, up to each state to make the electoral rules, voter suppression on a massive scale has been used by the right for many decades to stop those pesky minorities having a say. Not saying Democrats haven’t played the game but your offering is a false equivalence argument.
I’ve heard it said that without voter suppression/gerrymandering the republicans would be toast.
Land of the free bahahaha
I know, we've had this conversation... the conclusion is... thank fuck for the AEC
because every state in the US manipulates the system to their advantage right up to the eleventh hour
that's every state... red and blue...
mail in 'ballots'
zuck bucks
voter canvassing
phone calls to recitify dodgy ballots
you're pretty quiet about all that... how's your resuurch going?
the arizona debacle is an absolute embarrassment...
call me an idealist... but in a climate of...
'the election was stolen!'
.. from BOTH sides!
...i would've thought a seamless election process where all the i's and t's are crossed and dotted would have been a priority...
yet here we are...
but yeh, ...desantis bad, blue good...
"Looks like left leaning media and Guy have found their new boogie man."
to be fair, they're gonna have to work a lot harder...
desantis is much more marketable than trump
cue two more years of hysterics
'triggerrrrred'
again...
sypkan wrote:"Looks like left leaning media and Guy have found their new boogie man."
to be fair, they're gonna have to work a lot harder...
desantis is much more marketable than trump
cue two more years of hysterics
'triggerrrrred'
again...
Yeah they got a complete gift with Trump, it's going to be very hard to paint De Santis in a bad light, but of course they will try.
Pity Biden isn't a Republican they would have much more to go with.
sypkan wrote:"Looks like left leaning media and Guy have found their new boogie man."
to be fair, they're gonna have to work a lot harder...
desantis is much more marketable than trump
cue two more years of hysterics
'triggerrrrred'
again...
I get it Sippy; you’re your happiest when you’re sinking it into your woke left, all Oscar the Grouch like
As for @info just because you think it in your tiny noggin it’s not necessarily real or true or it even happen, #alwayswithacomment
Looks like the Dems have kept the Senate. And may even end up with 51 seats.
I look back to a comment from last week on this site about how bad the Dems were in selling their message. This may be true, but it’s now got to invite the question, if the Dems are bad how terrible must the Reps have been?
One view is that the Democrats were busy supporting the Republicans who were selling the worst message.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/untold-story-of-midterms-immo...
etarip wrote:Looks like the Dems have kept the Senate. And may even end up with 51 seats.
I look back to a comment from last week on this site about how bad the Dems were in selling their message. This may be true, but it’s now got to invite the question, if the Dems are bad how terrible must the Reps have been?
probably the best outcome tbh
but i wouldnt count those chickens yet
did the republicans have a message other than 'how bad is that other guy?'
seen that message before... gotta be the lowest common denominator of poor messaging and slack campaigning
the repulicans literally had nothing to sell, bit like you know who x 2... or 3 now...
it was the republicans election to lose
it was also the democrats election to lose too really...
losers all round
not least the public
"...An untold story of the midterms, though, is the irresponsible political tactics deployed by the Democrats. In Republican primaries around the country, Democrats poured tens of millions of dollars into supporting pro-MAGA, Trump-aligned candidates over more moderate, establishment conservatives, hoping that the extreme views of Trump’s allies would give Democratic candidates a better chance..."
that's gotta be the most cynical and immoral political strategy ever
not to mention kinda detached from reality
just imagine if all those millions were spent on good causes and outcomes for the public...
crazy talk I know
‘that's gotta be the most cynical and immoral political strategy ever’
You mean worse than
‘The election was rigged’?
Looking at the results, beyond the house and senate, I don’t think a single MAGA-Rep aligned candidate won a single Secretary of State election. Republicans might have broken the spell of Trump.
I think that’s a good outcome. For the most the concessions of losing candidates from both have been gracious and respectful.
Maybe that WAS a good strategy.
The GOP went after MAGA voters, not their traditional base, that got Trump one term, now they are stuck with them, and they are the voters (or non voters next time) who are going to fuck any GOP candidate who is not Trump, even if Trump is indicted. Throw in Roe v Wade voters, and the huge rise in blue younger voters, Trump going to war against any opponent, and old Sleepy Joe or even a drovers dog will beat whoever the GOP settles with in 2024. They are going to eat themselves, it has already started.
"You mean worse than
‘The election was rigged’?"
way worse
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
anyway, he's done now, if liberals could let it go, and have dealt with him in a scrupulous manner, he'd of been done long ago...
but he lives on
still...
Can't say you are not consistent Sypkan.
Do you consider the announcements of the FBI chief 10 days out from the 2016 election were a form of interference? Because it is likely that it had consequential impacts on HRC’s campaign.
It goes all ways.
sypkan wrote:"
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
...
I mean, all of these things have been exposed in the manifold law suits, investigations and the like, right?
I do find it interesting that your position on the ‘rigged election’ is out of step with the majority of (traditionally) republican voting Americans that I’ve spoken to.
etarip wrote:Looks like the Dems have kept the Senate. And may even end up with 51 seats.
I look back to a comment from last week on this site about how bad the Dems were in selling their message. This may be true, but it’s now got to invite the question, if the Dems are bad how terrible must the Reps have been?
Democrats have control of vast majority of media. Liberal media is hyper-partisan. Republicans struggle to get message out.
waveman wrote:etarip wrote:Looks like the Dems have kept the Senate. And may even end up with 51 seats.
I look back to a comment from last week on this site about how bad the Dems were in selling their message. This may be true, but it’s now got to invite the question, if the Dems are bad how terrible must the Reps have been?
Democrats have control of vast majority of media. Liberal media is hyper-partisan. Republicans struggle to get message out.
Ya reckon? What about Fox, and the ‘new’ CNN?
What was the message? Seriously.
Democrats have been very successful at getting control of social media and censoring and cancelling a lot of the right on it, particularly via the politicisation of the covid hoax. It’s why Musk just bought twitter.
sypkan wrote:"You mean worse than
‘The election was rigged’?"
way worse
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
anyway, he's done now, if liberals could let it go, and have dealt with him in a scrupulous manner, he'd of been done long ago...
but he lives on
still...
Aaaw and I remember the sundays when the crazy comments used to come from the likes of optimist but to his credit his views were based in religious faith and not wild conspiracy theories #tinfoilhattheory
etarip wrote:Do you consider the announcements of the FBI chief 10 days out from the 2016 election were a form of interference? Because it is likely that it had consequential impacts on HRC’s campaign.
It goes all ways.
it wasn't intentional interference
the fbi did that - most reluctantly - because, as they said at the time, they had no choice...
such was the volume and nature of information flowing at the time
when it comes to trump, they purposely spread the steele dossier - which they knew was fake - and they purposely censored / averted / blantantly spread misinformation regarding hunter biden's laptop
amongst other things
the two situations are not even remotely comparable... with hilary, they literally had no choice but to address the issue after trying to wish it all away
with trump, they were the ones concocting and disseminating misinformation, and they were the ones essentially censoring social media and media more widely
I honestly cannot see how you can possibly compare the two
etarip wrote:sypkan wrote:"
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
...I mean, all of these things have been exposed in the manifold law suits, investigations and the like, right?
I do find it interesting that your position on the ‘rigged election’ is out of step with the majority of (traditionally) republican voting Americans that I’ve spoken to.
and, big tech. have acknowledge, ...admitted they got it wrong - due to being mislead / bully boyed by the fbi / cia...
the fbi, well they're a disgrace, once again I honestly cannot believe your obtuseness / undying faith to the roles they have played - but I suspect you accept it as some sort of necessary evil that must be accepted / overlooked due to your background
the zucker buckers were found to be totally out of line
and the mail in ballots were just a convenient manipulation - much like desantis
however you look at it, there was a concerted effort from groups that should stay apolitical, and should stay the hell out of the election process - rigged
GuySmiley wrote:sypkan wrote:"You mean worse than
‘The election was rigged’?"
way worse
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
anyway, he's done now, if liberals could let it go, and have dealt with him in a scrupulous manner, he'd of been done long ago...
but he lives on
still...
Aaaw and I remember the sundays when the crazy comments used to come from the likes of optimist but to his credit his views were based in religious faith and not wild conspiracy theories #tinfoilhattheory
have you got anything guy?
seriously, anything at all?
But if mail-in ballots were as bad as you say, surely there would have been a successful legal challenge?
Nothing in this, reasonably authoritative list, supports that claim.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_interest/election_law/litigation/
And this report outlines the conclusions of a Republican-led (not NeverTrumpers either) investigation:
https://www.witf.org/2022/09/01/these-republicans-did-a-deep-dive-into-2...
“Former President Donald Trump claims millions of illegal votes cost him the 2020 election. However, all but three of his 64 election challenges failed.
Trump’s lawsuits included claims of voter fraud, illegal polling procedures, and errors with ballots and voting machines that would invalidate the 2020 election results.
He pulled out of 14 cases; 47 were dismissed by federal judges, including Democratic and Republican appointees. Of those, at least eight were appointed by Trump.“
Read it, or don’t.
The strange reality show continues: The Empire of Truth, Peace and Competence.
The self proclaimed exceptionals - a shining light on the hill for the world to emulate on their path to freedom and democratic bliss..
As some wise ancient philosopher wrote on parchment or a goatskin once:
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruits; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. “A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
Maybe competence, ethics and the middle ground will win out eventually but it is hard to see the path to that in the US political and media system at the moment on either side.
The recent election gives some hope by rejecting extremes to a degree, but overall, ethics, competence and common sense tend not to be rewarded. The systems attracts and rewards those seeking power and money.
The many tools that can be used to manipulate people, narratives and events just seem to get stronger.
sypkan wrote:"You mean worse than
‘The election was rigged’?"
way worse
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
anyway, he's done now, if liberals could let it go, and have dealt with him in a scrupulous manner, he'd of been done long ago...
but he lives on
still...
etarip wrote:sypkan wrote:"
the election was rigged
from big tech., the fbi, zucker buckers, all the way to mail in ballots...
one doesn't have to buy into the nuttyness to appreciate the number of forces that were working against trump
...I mean, all of these things have been exposed in the manifold law suits, investigations and the like, right?
I do find it interesting that your position on the ‘rigged election’ is out of step with the majority of (traditionally) republican voting Americans that I’ve spoken to.
I get where Sypkan is coming from, rigged isn't really the right word, he isn't suggesting it was rigged in a voter fraud Trump way, but in that every other outside force possible was trying to ensure he didn't get in, the first time they all didn't think it could happen and didn't take him seriously and got caught out, second time, every force possible ensured it didn't happen.
I don't think many republican voters would disagree with this i think even many democrat voters if being honest would too, i think its hard to argue its not true.
It's amazing to think back in how much timing affects things, no Covid or George Floyd and i think Trump would win, while if Biden had already been in when Covid and George Floyd happened Biden would be out as Covid would still have gone crazy and riots still would have happened.
That said id still rather Biden in rather than Trump when Russia invaded Ukraine, but then again Putin would have probably never invaded Ukraine if Trump was still in, i guess we will never know.
I think part of the problem is the ‘narrative’ that Trump’s victory in 2016 was ‘overwhelming’, which makes it harder for many to accept his loss in 2020 (Presidency, House and Senate…). Hence the desire for explanations that trend toward the conspiratorial rather than the prosaic.
Reality is that he lost the popular vote in 2016 by a considerable margin, and that distribution via Electoral college was in the order of tens of thousands of votes in two states (PA and MI). Part of the reason for that loss was that the Dems simply failed to appreciate the threat and took them for granted.
When you put it into that frame it’s is easier to understand that Trump’s ascent to the Presidency was tenuous.
And I’ll contend that he commanded the attention of the media in a way that defies both his actual support within the voting population and the ‘world was against him’ narrative espoused in previous posts. He’s good at one thing - getting media attention. Look at his approval ratings. They were never great.
While you all re-litigate past elections and carry on with what ifs and what abouts, the GOP have stepped up the finger pointing and camp switching and blame games that is going to ruin their next run at the White House . Chris Christie and Josh Hawley, outgoing Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan, come out blaming Trump in the last 24 hours, Trump blaming Mitch McConnell, and set to launch this week, Murdoch seeming to back DeSantis who has no MAGA voters outside of Florida. They will eat themselves.
Trump's 2016 victory was hugely driven by the genius work of Brad Parscale. His digital strategy was incredible at that time. They knew very well that winning only requires an additional ~10% of the vote. Driving it with a divisive, aggressive, toxic social media campaign yielded incredible results. It was even evil, unethical but bloody hell it worked well.
flollo wrote:Trump's 2016 victory was hugely driven by the genius work of Brad Parscale. His digital strategy was incredible at that time. They knew very well that winning only requires an additional ~10% of the vote. Driving it with a divisive, aggressive, toxic social media campaign yielded incredible results. It was even evil, unethical but bloody hell it worked well.
Yes very true, but hey, it is the censorious woke liberal anti freedom of speech msm and social media that are preventing the truthiness from being told apparently.
yes exactly blackers, once Trump actually got voted in the wheels set in motion. Then covid came along and the right was an even easier target to discredit, censor and cancel. The mid-terms are still the result of it all. Political warfare 101. Great to see you starting to wake up to things...!
Who was in power when Covid ‘came along’
US - Republicans
UK - Conservatives
AUS - LNP
….
Wave man posted something yesterday about the GOP not being able to ‘get their message out’.
What exactly was the right’s message that was censored so hard? Genuine question.
I think that goes to the heart of the problem in the mid-terms. The Dems knew that they couldn’t rely on Biden, so they had a consistent message. That was reflected in an article on Politco or own of those sites. If I find I’ll post it.
Can’t say the same for the GOP, split between the NTs, RINOs, MAGAs and god knows what else. Self-censorship if anything.
"I get where Sypkan is coming from, rigged isn't really the right word, he isn't suggesting it was rigged in a voter fraud Trump way, but in that every other outside force possible was trying to ensure he didn't get in, the first time they all didn't think it could happen and didn't take him seriously and got caught out, second time, every force possible ensured it didn't happen.
I don't think many republican voters would disagree with this i think even many democrat voters if being honest would too, i think its hard to argue its not true..."
exactly indo
I've explicitly stated this several timrs in my various conversations with etarip, but he keeps going back there...
(whilst ignoring my main points)
I find interesting that well educated, rational, and even well intentioned people like etarip struggle to talk about this stuff without getting all flabberghasted and rolling out the same old tropes...
which isn't a shot at etarip, more an observation of the heat in the debate
seems every trump hater's got a bit of perpetually triggered guysmiley within
Hey syppo, no heat in this debate for me.
If I haven’t been clear, I don’t think every possible force was opposing Trump and his ilk.
I just don’t see that ‘the message’ was clear nor compelling for voters, and it appears that many of them made a choice to not turn up to vote. Perhaps a parallel to the Dems in 2016?
More broadly, Is the GOP on message? Do they have a message? Are they united? Do they represent political, economic and consistency with their history?
I don’t see how I’m flabbergasted. My view is consistent. The explanations for recent results in US (and probably Australian) politics are more prosaic than conspiratorial.
gsco wrote:yes exactly blackers, once Trump actually got voted in the wheels set in motion. Then covid came along and the right was an even easier target to discredit, censor and cancel. The mid-terms are still the result of it all. Political warfare 101. Great to see you starting to wake up to things...!
Hah hah funny man.
A commentor summed up the GOP election pitch as roughly: Biden bad, inflation bad and it was stolen. No policies or solutions of note.
That is not enough for the middle ground to shift in their direction and to counter the 'don't feel comfortable with this MAGA stuff or more Trump.
It was theirs for the taking. They blew it.
100% frog
Perversely. I think there might have been a sense of ‘better the devil you know’ that crept in too.
Seems like the abortion issue brought out younger voters who voted Democrat.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank