Climate Change
Shock horror, carbon sequestration in soil grossly exaggerated by the COALition
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/carbon-farming-potential-overhyp...
Great leader Scott remind of comrade Mao hit of iron production target with help is of good citizen who melt all wok and machine.
Much lump of no use pig iron in villages and much burn of noodle in new wood woks.
Blind Boy - As you know it is not a shock to most . What is shocking is that the world thinks it can and enable us to get to net zero in 2050 without it .
If we look at the G20 position Scomo is right in the middle of their views .
It is very funny how the lefts on this thread are trying to make Scomo look like he has different views to most . He is making a hash of being honest get to net zero but miles ahead of China , Russia , India , Brazil , Indo and the Developing world . This group probably makes more that 80% of the worlds CO2 emissions and number keeps rising .
It doesn't matter what would be proposed Hutchy, people like BB will always look for faults and yes there is many in anything proposed, even wind and solar has big issues, the old cliché "when the wind doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow" but we aim to overcome the issues.
There is no perfect answers or solutions and like it or not a road map to getting to net zero emissions cant really be planned.
It's like trying to plan some Indo surf trip down to the detail including where you will surf each day and expecting it to go to plan, it never will, you can only draw a rough road map and then adapt as it unfolds.
Blind boy is a whinger/hater though, he loves to whinge and hate always has always will, also loves to have conflict over anything and everything with Blowin as you have probably noticed, other than that nice enough guy.
So when I point out that the COALition is basing their response to climate change on dodgy data and unrealistic extrapolations, yeh I suppose I am finding fault because it is a fault. Never noticed any hesitation from either of you to find fault. The only difference is that mine ARE faults yours are rarely anything beyond ideologically driven drivel.
Did Scummo end up pushing through his legislation that would see an extra surcharge put on top of everyone's power bills that would then go to the operators of coal fuelled power stations to make up for their lost revenue due to the increasing uptake of renewable electricity?
(Did that make sense?)
The 26th Climate Change meeting . Same as all the other 25 . Even the G20 can't agree on what has to be done . I could have worked out the progress of this meeting without them having to get together . Exactly the same as the previous 25 meetings ( although China has let everyone know they were BSing by signing at Paris ) . It is hilarious , though , watching all you Greenies seeing the same thing but expecting something different . The definition of insanity .
It is just another chance for the rich and famous to get some publicity and catch up . Flying there using sustainable jet fuel ( Prince Charles excuse ha ha ) and then tell us all that our time on earth is running out and we urgently need to heed their advice .
"According to the Daily Mail, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos 'has led a 400-strong parade of private jets into COP25,' which includes Prince Albert of Monaco, tons of other royals, and dozens of "green" CEOs - creating a giant traffic jam which required empty planes to fly 30 miles away to 'nearby' Prestwick to find parking."
The only person who has any credibility on the issue is Greta who I like a lot . The rest are all just hypocrites .
Blind one - "COALition is basing their response to climate change on dodgy data and unrealistic extrapolations, "
Finally you are right . No one forecasted that Thermal coal was going to rise 400% in 18 months as demand increased or that gas prices would go up . Everyone , including you , made the dodgy prediction that their usage would plummet . You make a good habit of getting things wrong . Consistent form !
At least Biden is his usual attentive self .
He realises the importance of the meeting .
"This is not a joke. Y’know what the Joint Chiefs told us the greatest threat facing America was?"
"Global warming," Biden said.
Biden Shows Urgency Of Climate Crisis By Falling Asleep At COP26; MSNBC Admits "Embarrassing" Moment .
Good ole " Sleepy Joe "
At least I am trying to stay awake and not to smile . Lets call it a "Snooze Fest " .
Coal.use and emissions peaked in 2013.
https://www.worldometers.info/coal/#:~:text=World%20Coal%20Consumption&t....
Blind One .
Yes but demand has picked up in the last 18 months as you know . When demand rises prices picks up .
As we know the UK had a less windy 6 months . Less renewable energy . They turned off fissile fuel energy . The result from the dodgy expectations is energy prices are increasing .
Your favourite planned economy China is having shortages in electricity . Urgently building MORE COAL and gas power stations . Dodgy data and planning ?
Oil prices are rising dramatically and OPEC is not coming to the rescue . Dodgy ?
Europe is becoming more and more reliant on Russian gas . Good planning ?
The whole worlds energy mix is now uncertain . The effects on inflation could be a horror story .
ALL very dodgy . About as dodgy as the 26th Climate conference !!!!!!
So why are you cheering on failure at COP26? Do you really think more bushfires, more droughts, longer hotter heatwaves, more coastal erosion, and further decreases in biodiversity, are the way to go? I mean there's dumb, dumber and then, by a considerable margin........Hutchy, if that is your view.
So much unnecessary negativity, there are many difficult issues to resolve and solutions are not always clear. However, pressure needs to be applied and people need to maintain optimism otherwise nothing will happen. Digging and burning limited resources with complex supply chains to satisfy infinite energy needs will always cause system shocks. We should all be striving to get rid of that outdated model.
gragagan wrote:Did Scummo end up pushing through his legislation that would see an extra surcharge put on top of everyone's power bills that would then go to the operators of coal fuelled power stations to make up for their lost revenue due to the increasing uptake of renewable electricity?
(Did that make sense?)
Dont know but it would kind of make sense.
One important thing to remember.
Coal fired power stations can operate without renewables and have done for decades.
Renewables currently cant supply us with enough energy 24/7 without the support of coal and gas.
One day this will change, but it's currently not the case, the worst thing that could happen is if coal/gas power stations ran at a loss and said okay we are closing down.
It would lead to an extremely unreliable power generation system as bad or worse than a third world country.
So yeah realistically you would expect to ensure coal fired power stations stick around and make money until the transition is complete they might need financial subsidies.
Same old nonsense. Never heard of batteries apparently.
blindboy wrote:Same old nonsense. Never heard of batteries apparently.
So if coal fired power stations were turned off next year, there would magically be enough batteries to keep us going????
No sorry.
And even if there was it would be super high risk without a back up system like gas peaking plants, battery storage is generally short term storage to help with grid stability and short periods of no energy supply, what happens if you have a few days of dark skys and rain and little or too much wind and the batteries are flat?
You need a mix of other longer term storage options like pumped hydro and Hydrogen but all these things don't happen overnight here or anywhere in the world.
Nowhere in the world has remotely anything close to enough batteries to keep anything going more than minutes to hours at max.
Australia already has some of the largest battery capacity in the world (along with places like California)
BTW. Its so funny to read or have these conversations with people, the answer is always just batteries, its such an uneducated unrealistic view, yes batteries will play a part, but they are not the be all and end all, and the capacity is not there yet and will take a long time before it is (not just in Australia but world wide)
Definitely not happy when/if the 26th meeting turns out to be a waste of CO2 BB. As have the previous 25 .
I hate waste . You really ask STUPID questions to make a stupid point . NO I don't want more bushfires that kill people and destroy property , wildlife and fauna .
I want to see realistic plans that countries will commit to . Ones that don't rely on China who can't be trusted . Plans that will help the developing world grow and raise the standard of living of their people .
Plans that recognise that the people of the developed world want jobs and will not be willing to sacrifice their standard of living . Plans that recognise that you and all the other greenies on SN will still drive and fly to the beach .
Realistic Plans that will reduce CO2 and minimise its effects .
Whatever the leadership are doing now IS not working . Flying there on Private Jets sends a terrible message . Saying do as I say but not as I do SHOWS everyone they THEY are not committed . They will never get the people of the world to BUY into their story . They are making a complete balls up of what they are doing . It is VERY sad I admit . I want things to change desperately .
You don't help at all . You are cheering them one .
You believe BS like batteries saving the world within 30 years . Things that are not developed and we don't have the raw materials to make .
You and your type are a MAJOR part of the problem . Nearly everyone understands CO2 is a problem . But nearly everyone is not convinced on what is the solution .
As I keep saying to you - "Wake up and see the REAL world " .
Then we may be able to make some plans that will actually help .
Mate I previously provided a link to the battery under construction in the Hunter and the commitment.of Australia's largest electricity consumer to use 100% renewable energy by 2029. So who should I believe, those with long experience in the industry or old mate Hutchy whose special subject is knowing nothing about everything?
You are so predictable BB .
Ignore all the important points you can't refute , pick on one item and shout that the whole article is BS .
I have looked up what Tesla is doing with mega batteries . Ones that can't power a city the size of Melbourne for an hour . I missed your link ( you are so nasty I am prone now to not reading some of your comments ) . If you want to repost it ( you write too many posts for me to bother looking ) I will check it out .
In my REAL world job I am very aware of commodity prices and their availability . As I have repeatedly said ( you choose to ignore ) there is not enough Lithium , cobalt , nickel etc to meet the current demand . Even if we find and build greater sources it will take a lot of time .
To build ( after finding a resource ) a mine now takes around 10 years in Australia . These resources are often in countries that bow to Chine eg Congo . I am sure you will be able to ask your mates the Chinese to be nice to the rest of the world and fund and build all the new mines needed and sell the resources to us at a fair price to build millions of mega batteries before 2050 .
You really don't understand any of the most important details . Unlike all the money you want to spend these commodities don't grow on trees .
Care to support any of that with credible references? Probably not. Still suffering fromwhatisay3timesistrue disease.
Blind one - you should know all of this ! Why do you comment so much about subjects you know so little of the important details ?
Do your own work as I don't expect to have to explain such basic things .
I have already posted ( quite recently if you want to check and embarrass yourself ) before where these minerals are mined in the world eg Congo was 70% of the worlds nickel and China was 60% of the worlds rare earths ( was over 90% about 10 years ago ) .
Minerals like Nickel are mostly found deep underground ( 400 meters ) so the time to build them takes much longer than an open cut mine .
"Operating a mine, whether underground or open pit, is a large-scale project. So it’s not surprising that mining projects can take 10 to 15 years to launch, and may be subject to a number of major decisions. In fact, operating a mine involves a series of steps, from the discovery of the deposit to the closing of the mine. "
https://www.explorelesmines.com/en/mining-industry/mining-cycle.html
If the Build Back Better legislation is passed soon, which looks likely, it will include $555 billion in emissions reduction measures, with massive tax credits for individuals and business. The US economy will thus transform and be geared towards achieving the targets President Biden has set for 2030 and 2050. Accordingly, the likelihood of a future President Haley and her VP Lindsey Graham of the Trump Party having the political will to revoke these laws by executive order becomes increasingly remote, due to the societal and economic disruption such a decision would provoke.
As Australia always and unconditionally aligns itself with America, under the guise of national interest, Scomo and the Nats dithering is merely delaying the inevitable and will seem a bizarre historical anomaly.
By extension, those who would defy the national interest and are unwilling to seriously commit Australia to America’s goal of net zero emissions by 2050, presumably support a realignment of our foreign policy and closer relations with ideological ally, the Soviet/Sino/Syrian bloc.
‘I make it quite clear that Australia looks to China, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with the United States.'
The link is irrelevant.
Roker - Australia is a huge exporter of minerals and agriculture products that the world needs .
The US is almost a closed economy . I think I read decades ago it is 90% self contained .
Comparing us to the US is chalk v cheese .
Blind Boy - I think I was too harsh saying these facts are basic details that you should know . Sorry but your repeated refusal to believe details and ask for links made me get frustrated .
In my line of work I do need to know the basics about commodities . I advise clients about possible investments . Details like is a commodities hard to find and its scarcity . What size could a find potentially be . This is a big guess as no one knows until the "truth serum " ie drilling .
How much a mine will cost and how will it be funded , how long it will take to build etc to have a guess when it will generate cash ( the estimated Internal Rate of Return ) . What is the potential mine life . How investors react to the timeline ( mostly at the start due to the "Blue Sky " effect ) etc .
Mining companies are only one sector I need to follow . I like my clients to have some diversification .
Same Old Shit
OMG, looks like Hutchy 19 is some kind of financial adviser?
Wow, this is a bloke who says he needs to know about the mining sector and was poo-pooing the idea of carbon tariffs on Australian exports due to lack of action on climate change.
Seriously Hutchy 19, how do you sleep at night charging people for financial advice when you have literally no idea about climate change policy and energy trends around the world?
If you had any clue about where things are going, you'd be advising people to get out of thermal coal and gas.
Australia is about to get a right royal economic dry arse fucking because of Scumo's non-existent climate policies. And the thing is, we deserve it. Scumo's been pulling down Australia's pants and waving our arse at Europe (and soon to be the USA) and saying come and get it big boys.
Viclocal - So you know nothing about me or my 30 years in the industry and you are giving me financial advice . Thanks but no thanks .
Same as your advice on how badly ( I won't use your language ) Australia will be affected by European tariffs . If you can't comprehend that ALL the goods we sell to Europe are sold on a global market at the same price then you are , you .
I bet I know a lot more about energy trends than you and that is probably not much . I am positive that the global experts at my company who specialise in this DO and I read their research .
I haven't had any clients in thermal coal and gas for years and was prepared to miss the opportunity for them to make money in the recent price spikes . Just like bitcoin I find it too hard to predict . Swing at the easy pitches is one of my mottos . You are a VERY easy pitch .
The Thermal Coal price dropped over 30% last night as the futures rolled into a new month . It is still over 300% higher than 18 months ago .
Vic , I would counsel you to stick to advising on beach houses . A subject which you know much more than I do . You secret feudal/capitalist land owner .
"If you can't comprehend that ALL the goods we sell to Europe are sold on a global market at the same price then you are , you ."
You do understand how carbon tariffs work Hutchy 19? I'm actually not sure that you do.
Vic - I did read the comments you posted .
It said from memory " tariffs would be applied to countries that don't have the right , in our opinion , Climate Policies . Tariffs will be applied so as these countries don't have a price advantage .
Remember I thanked you for posting it and proving that using their production that is Green friendly IS more expensive . I said they wouldn't stop buying our coal as it is the best quality and emission friendly in the world . That we could retaliate and not buy BMW's , Volvo's and VW's . That we could grow our own oaks and truffles .
That we import more from them than they do from us . I posted the official trade figures from the government which SHOWED how big the deficit was .
I said bring on the war as they have a knife and we have a guns . I said they have always been good at starting wars and we are good at finishing and winning them .
How quickly you forget ! My motto is " Lest we forget ".
Please let me know if what you posted was BS !
Any trade war would go to the WTO and I don't think they would be too keen on any retaliatory tariffs imposed by Australia.
Carbon tariffs on non-EU airlines are already considered consistent with international laws. It's only a matter of time until the tariffs are extended to other sectors.
It's coming whether you like it or not.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-ca...
And won't the conservative scum complain about them
Trump never heard a squeak that mattered from the WTO and didn't complain when he started a trade war with China . China didn't either when they retaliated .
There are plenty of airlines to fly other than European . When did you use one Vic ?
Mate , you get so scared at the drop of a hat , Might call you timid Vic from now on .
The European's are too smart and money hungry to shit on themselves . Any tariffs they impose will be for show and WILL have no impact on Australia .
Go to bed and relax . The European boogie man won't get you .
It's very interesting the imposition of carbon/climate into world trade. Add it to uniform company tax laws proposed by Biden admin throughout the Western world (less, tax havens probably). The historian might go back and see the retreat from globalisation that occurred in 1905 with Joseph Chamberlain's 'Imperial Preference' as a means to restrict trade within the Empire and to exclude the new rising power (Germany: younger demographics, large population growth, more industrial power at the time)...ref: Thucydides trap - the incumbent won that one btw, it drew on old alliances...
Thus I see this stuff as a means of protection of the Western world: apply carbon standards everywhere. This might be a good thing. Go Greta!
For Australia - there will be a paradigm change in how we generate and store power, it's already begun with the large solar uptake. In fact, there's going to be a paradigm change in, everything. It's going to be a wild ride.
Edit: we've also got the uranium, and they are going to need that. Lucky country.
"The European's are too smart and money hungry to shit on themselves . Any tariffs they impose will be for show and WILL have no impact on Australia ."
Sorry Hutchy19, but for a person who works in finance this is a ridiculous statement. Imposing tariffs on goods and services provided by countries not pulling their weight re climate change, shits on those countries, not on the EU. Who exactly do you think gets the $$$? I will give you a hint. Not fucking Australia.
Hutchy 19 wrote:Vic - I did read the comments you posted .
It said from memory " tariffs would be applied to countries that don't have the right , in our opinion , Climate Policies . Tariffs will be applied so as these countries don't have a price advantage .
Remember I thanked you for posting it and proving that using their production that is Green friendly IS more expensive . I said they wouldn't stop buying our coal as it is the best quality and emission friendly in the world . That we could retaliate and not buy BMW's , Volvo's and VW's . That we could grow our own oaks and truffles .
That we import more from them than they do from us . I posted the official trade figures from the government which SHOWED how big the deficit was .
I said bring on the war as they have a knife and we have a guns . I said they have always been good at starting wars and we are good at finishing and winning them .
How quickly you forget ! My motto is " Lest we forget ".
Please let me know if what you posted was BS !
We have the guns do we Hutch? Do ya mean a cap gun?
We represent a piddly 1.8% of the EU's exports, while the EU accounts for at least 3.41% of Australia's exports.
https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/exports-by-country
https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports-by-country
Take the cherry picker out for a run did we chief?
Simple test re tariffs.
Last election cycle Australian business and industry representative organisations were condemning action on climate change.
Now Australian business and industry representative organisations are calling for net zero and urgent action on climate change.
Spot the difference.
The graph shows the results of a survey of 92 climate scientists who contibuted to the latest IPCC report. The results of COP26 will probably increase the number predicting a three degree rise.....and the consequences of that? Well more later.
So what does a three degree rise look like. This will do for starters
10 year heatwaves more than 6 times more likely. 50 year heatwaves over 14 times more likely.
And thenm there is this.
10 year one day rain events double with about a 20% increase in intensity
10 year drought events increase by 3 and 0.6 of a sytandard deviation drier.
At least Greta can see what the rich love fest achieved . I have already said I like her very much for her views and conviction .
Daily Mail
US President Joe Biden, Prime Minister Boris Johnson, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Canadian PM Justin Trudeau gathered in Glasgow last night for the biggest diplomatic meeting in Britain in 75 years. Outside in Festival Park, Greta Thunberg gave a passionate and foul-mouthed speech, telling demonstrators: 'Inside Cop, there are just politicians and people in power pretending to take our future seriously... No more blah blah blah, no more whatever the f*** they are doing inside there!' As heads of Government from around the world discussed what could be done to save the planet from ruin, the Swedish eco activist was also filmed riling up her fellow activists with a chant of: 'You can shove your climate crisis up your a***'.
It's funny that the miners are showing more leadership than any politicians in this country. Well some of the WA ones are
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/australian-miners-ramp-up-plans-t...
And our government
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-03/australia-refuses-to-join-global-...
Well the various ministers appear to be following the PM's lead. They have gone from conventional submorons to nuclear submorons
In la la land. Things do seem to be picking up pace, albeit slowly and around 20 years too late. Not from the government though, they obviously still believe the whole climate change thing is a joke
Miners will hugely profit from the transition. Look at lithium, for example, the supply needs to grow exponentially to meet the future demand. I can't see why would large mining companies object to climate change policies. I would ditch coal instantly. This is what Rio Tinto is forecasting:
"In a presentation to investors, Rio Tinto’s head of economics Vivek Tulpule said EV sales are on track to hit up to 55% of the world’s total light vehicles sales as early as 2030, reaching about 65 million units.
This means manufacturers would need about three million tonnes of lithium, compared with the roughly 350,000 tonnes they consume today, Tulpule noted.
Existing operations and projects combined, however, are slated to contribute one million tonnes of lithium, he said.
Rio Tinto estimates that committed supply and capacity expansions will contribute about 15% to demand growth over the 2020-2050 period. The remaining 85% would need to come from new projects. "
https://www.mining.com/rio-tinto-says-60-jadar-mines-wouldnt-fill-loomin...
Probably should note that these are 'metallic' mines, not fossil fuels. But things are looking better. Also with regard to batteries, there are alternatives to using lithium. Maybe not available right now, but they are being developed and shouldn't be too far away.
EVs? But they're slow with no power (or so we all thought hahaha)
“ Surface temperatures will remain approximately constant at elevated levels for many centuries after a complete cessation of net anthropogenic CO2 emissions. A large fraction of anthropogenic climate change resulting from CO2 emissions is irreversible on a multi-century to millennial timescale, except in the case of a large net removal of CO2 from the atmosphere over a sustained period.” Summary For Policy Makers - Global Warming of 1.5°C. IPCC
In other words, once the planet heats up, given the continuing failure of CCS technology, it will stay hot for a long time.
If we are optimistic and assume that emissions peak in 2040 (RCP4.5), then the average predicted increase from all models is 2.5°C and there is a greater than 66% chance that the increase will be between 1.7 and 3.3°C. These numbers reveal a fundamental problem for policy makers. An increase of 3.3ºC, which these figures suggest is quite possible, would be catastrophic. How do you explain to your consituents that you are rolling the dice on climate catastrophe? So far the answer is “You don’t.” You just keep feeding them bullshit!
@ Gragagan
That’s awesome. 450hp direct to the wheels. 250 miles range is pretty impressive. Wonder what the cost is. Does anyone know the charge times of these Teslas?
gragagan wrote:Probably should note that these are 'metallic' mines, not fossil fuels. But things are looking better. Also with regard to batteries, there are alternatives to using lithium. Maybe not available right now, but they are being developed and shouldn't be too far away.
Yeah, fair call. What it all shows is that opportunities exist and fossil fuel companies can pivot or perish. This is a daily reality for many businesses and they shouldn't be exempted.
.