All Things Religion Thread

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

Optimist, how about all of the good work done by genuine people who are not Christian?

Optimist wrote:

Breaking news, Guy Smiley has worked out Pell and Houston are dodgy. Don’t worry about all the good people like the Salvos etc, fixate on Pell and Houston aaark Pell and Houston aaark….give the atheist a cracker please.

Did you mourn Pells death? and what did you think about the public figures that attended his funeral?

Optimist wrote:

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

What about the world wide misery churches have bought to children and indigenous communities. You guys are largely in deficit I would imagine. Now Hillsong being revealed as a Ponzi scheme under the guise of a charity……… I suppose they didn’t get caught fuckinjg kids. Like most other churches. Oh no that happened too.. yeah Christian’s!

Don’t even get me started on the worlds biggest “victims” not much Christian charity getting thrown around Israel if you’re a Palestinian. Hiding behind the holocaust forever. Cunts.

Optimist, spiritualism is good. Religion is about control and coercion and there’s a whole lot of bad for a meagre return of good.

Good on you for persisting Optimist. I'm an atheist but you have my support.

Here’s a thought- how bout starting afresh- new religion- just Opti and Jesus. That way there’s no baggage- just you and pure thoughts!

Optimist wrote:

Unfortunately infiltrators are everywhere, but we shouldn’t deny the good work genuine people do. Without the very large Christian family picking up the homeless, the poor, the addicted, the abused, the hungry across every nation on earth , the world would be a much harsher place in which to live. Over the last 40 years as a member of many churches in my travels, I have seen first hand several predators trying to sneak into a congregation like wolves in sheep’s clothing. Fortunately most were busted early but some always get through due to their cunning evil ways. Unfortunately some pastors and ministers are just too nice or too dumb one or the other, not listening to their gut and to God when certain even slightly suspicious people should be just outright barred. I think it comes from them not believing that people could be so evil but …there they are,

Yet you still go and support the filth that is religion.

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Yep, agree - there are plenty of great church orgs doing fantastic work.

But, there are lots of non-christian groups/people also doing great work too, sometimes without the same kinds of benefits/concessions.

Irks me to see the stuff Hillsong gets away with.

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about "my logic"

But i personally will not donate to a charity that the CEO takes 700K per year from peoples goodwill donations.

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

The non profit I used to work for used to reinvest most of their profit back into the over inflated salaries of the board members running the so called non profit, as well as flashy new buildings which they used to staff with poorly paid carers. So there is that too, and makes you wonder how many other "non profit" organisations are out there that do the same. Lack of shareholders just means less scrutiny and accountability.

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion about "my logic"

But i personally will not donate to a charity that the CEO takes 700K per year from peoples goodwill donations.

Exactly Burleigh. Sounds a bit like Hillsong. Apart from big business what CEO gets these big salaries? Our Prime Minister gets less. A charity CEO gets 700g.

Good point Garyg1412. Not for profit not for spending much on stated cause. Scams

I’m hearing you on Hillsong Ben, never been a fan of Brian always on money money. Blah blah…but some of the musos there were brilliant the best one leaving ages ago named Darlene Zschech who got over it too and started her own church which is doing well I hear. Regarding ceo pay for people like world vision, they do need the best and I think the leaders are on 237k plus compensation which is travel , danger money, expenses , often on private dodgy private small craft into war zones etc…not a job for me that’s for sure, which can total between 500 and 700 k. The rest are on standard salaries and the core group are all volunteers that do a stretch overseas sometimes…plus the good old average joe aussies sponsoring kids, a program my kids and I enjoyed very much while they were growing up.

Cringe

garyg1412 wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

flollo wrote:

burleigh wrote:

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

The CEO of world vision takes a salary of 700K per year. Is that gods work?

Absolutely! It's a professional role that needs to be done, it's not even that much.

It's a charity.

So according to your logic, everyone who works in the charity should do so for free? That's not how it works, on a higher level, nonprofits still require staff to do the work. And that staff gets paid a salary. Profits (if there are any) get reinvested into the organisation and the cause that is being followed rather than distributed to shareholders.

Lack of shareholders just means less scrutiny and accountability.

Yeah, I like this one. Totally agree with this.

“Religions are divisive and quarrelsome. They are a form of one-upmanship because they depend upon separating the “saved” from the “damned,” the true believers from the heretics, the in-group from the out-group. . . . All belief is fervent hope, and thus a cover-up for doubt and uncertainty.” — Alan Watts, The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

Pretty much the same as ideology.

Absolutely.
That's humans for you.

Or….is this a design and there is a master designer who has His own thing going on and whether we like it or not, He has His ways of doing things and rarely changes His mind….just the universe itself and the created things on earth show a master design with maths and physics involved that cannot possibly be written off as accident. Look harder and deeper and you will see design…go deeper again and you will find the designer….don’t be satisfied with people’s versions of religion…ask God Himself to show you and the doors will open. The only thing is, the doorway may challenge your pre conceived ideas and turn upside down everything you think to be real and correct.

Yeh, nah. Grow up and live in the present reality, shit tho it may be

Optimist wrote:

That’s true Ben, but I’m defending the christian network which is a huge contributor. People like world vision and samaritans purse are two I’ve worked with personally as well as many other church orgs. Amazing people doing next level stuff. I’m humbled just knowing them so you see I get a bit defensive when these guys say the stuff they say.

Been off grid all day so late to today’s musings…. Yes can agree in principle to much of that, we even volunteer for the salvos, but opti to the unanswered question, the MO of these “christian” orgs especially in Africa and Asia is inglorious in the name of the christian god

Benny Hinn voodoo man

https://m.

Sins of the Amish Part 2 - On 7 bravo now .

My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness. – Dalai Lama

Optimist
What happens in your congregation if someone leaves their marriage or just loses their faith and leaves the church?

Optimist wrote:

Or….is this a design and there is a master designer who has His own thing going on and whether we like it or not, He has His ways of doing things and rarely changes His mind….just the universe itself and the created things on earth show a master design with maths and physics involved that cannot possibly be written off as accident. Look harder and deeper and you will see design…go deeper again and you will find the designer….don’t be satisfied with people’s versions of religion…ask God Himself to show you and the doors will open. The only thing is, the doorway may challenge your pre conceived ideas and turn upside down everything you think to be real and correct.

Say what?

Optimist thinks his ravings make sense.
It’s legal and tax free.

Have a look at thesearchforgod.org and you’ll find similar comments to yours and find the answers to your questions from some famous scientists rather than me. There are some short videos there too which will be of interest to you….hopefully if your fair dinkum that is and not just arguing because you have nothing else to do.

Not the God- but a God

Flopti says :

“whether we like it or not, He has His ways of doing things and rarely changes His mind….”

How is god a he exactly ?
And he has a mind ?? ;);)
What an absolute load of utter bullshit !
Does he also have a jaw and a set of fingers and toes and other human physical features - and specifically male ?
Please explain how you genuinely know god has a mind and can change it rarely?
Sounds more like your projection ;)

After all - you have ways of doing things and rarely change your mind ;)
Does that mean you are also a super powered entity or is it just how your mind tries to relate to an imaginary force that is purely conceptual?

There is no shame in saying you don’t know ;)

And this flopti gem :

“…ask God Himself to show you and the doors will open. The only thing is, the doorway may challenge your pre conceived ideas and turn upside down everything you think to be real and correct.”

Couldn’t this same theory be applied to your relationship to reality ? ;)

Reality obviously challenges your pre conceived ideas about god…
Design or designer or not - these are all personal interpretations - how are these not theoretical exactly ?
We should trust in your ability to communicate with god and ask questions yet your ‘evidence’ seems to often lay in us watching a ‘chosen’ vid or going to a website ?

Ever wondered if your worldview and religious faith is simply a representation of the most followed religion on earth?
As one of roughly 2 billion christians, are you sure you haven’t just jumped onto what makes sense to you - coming from a western culture in which christianity is historically part of an established way of life ?

- do u understand that bit ? Are you sure you had a choice in your faith ? If you were born in Pakistan or in another culture where a different faith was part of the social structure, would you still be christian ? ;);)

I don’t think so. You are a product of your environment ;);) That can’t be denied.

Everything you think to be real and correct regarding belief is actually not real nor can it be correct ;)

It is belief. Faith.

The antithesis of real.

So the doorway of reality debunks all your own preconceived ideas.

And all you are left with is fantasy and speculation regarding stories.

The ‘treat others like you would like to be treated’ thing is the most powerful teaching stolen by christians. The philosophy of religion is effective with the doctrine of kindness and love and forgiveness etc. however, as long as these remain ‘ideas’ seemingly exclusively to believers then you will
never understand that these are human qualities and attributes accessible to all.

To imagine you have a superior take on things while being unable to actually answer simple questions or explain anything from direct experience is pretty sad really.

But… keep relying on what someone else tells you tho…

Or what someone else wrote…
That’ll set you free ;);)

What was going through god’s mind when he made the dinosaurs ? ;);)

Did you watch the 3 short videos on that page thesearchforgod.org. It’s started by ex atheists who are scientists and the intro for the first video by Charles Darwin and modern atheists like yourself….or are you guys happy in your world….if so, don’t deny other interested people from looking into it.

I watched them. Nothing there but creationist theory.
How about answering some questions instead of deflecting all the time.

So leading scientists in their fields, some award winners are creationist theory? Even though some aren’t Christian’s?…..yet.!

Come on Optimist. It’s biased bollocks. Propaganda.
How about some answers?
You have a go at the Catholics and Hillsong but never reveal who or what
you’re church is. You no doubt have your beliefs and love your church but you never reveal anything about it. Why so shy?

"What was going through god’s mind when he made the dinosaurs ? ;);)
Back then He was really into lizards, big lizards, flying lizards, meat eating ones, vegan ones even ones that could swim. He liked watching them graze, He liked watching them eat each other. He liked watching them root each other and make more lizards. But that got boring so He did his smite thing and threw a big space rock at Mexico and started on making something else. Monkeys, all sorts of monkeys. The thing about monkeys is He found they are easy to adjust and upgrade and given some time and a lot of rooting He found you can make humans. The first half dozen or so were o.k., He made habilis, who was handy but stupid, so then He made erectus, who could walk upright but again not really what He wanted, so He smite them and made the Neanderthals, they were cool, but He was experimenting with humans at that stage so He also made Denisovan and some cute little ones He called florensiens and another He called naledi. They were all cruising around hunting and eating and rooting for a long time but still got boring to God so He got his rooting monkeys to spit out another one and He smite all the others, except the Neanderthals, when the new one, Sapiens, the one that looked like Him the most, was showing great promise but had started rooting the Neanderthals and He didn't want all the Sapiens to have red headed kids so He smite them too. So now He just had the Sapiens who spread out across the earth and progressed nicely because they were cognitive and had opposing thumbs and fingers which were very handy. At some point He decided He needed the Sapiens to know Him because they kept making up Gods and fucking things up and that pissed Him off a lot so he split Himself in three and sent one version, He called it his Son, into a Sapien woman's womb to teach the other Sapiens right from wrong and who really was God. Luckily she had an understanding husband at the time who didn't mind Him doing that because no sex was involved. Then He killed his Son when he was just getting a following to show the Sapiens they could still sin and fuck things up as long as they believed in Him and not all these other fake Gods they had created, but He wasn't really dead, it was just for show and He rose from the dead a few days later and disappeared back to God. No one could believe it back on earth, it all sounded a bit unreal, so God arranged for other Sapiens who did believe to put it all down in writing and pass it around. The turning point was when He got one of the Roman Emperors to believe in Him and the story about His Son and then it started getting the following He was looking for.
So today He has his followers who are special and will be able to go to Heaven, the place where He lives, with His Son and His ghost, because despite His incredulity, they got it and had faith He was the only real God, and the non believers, fuck 'em they can go to Hell.
Then there was the time He was making humans when He was drunk and He made Rosie O'Donnell and the Angel said to Him, "You can't put tits on that man" and God said "Fuck it, I can do what I want, I'm God" (a joke stolen from Family Guy)

Optimist wrote:

So leading scientists in their fields, some award winners are creationist theory? Even though some aren’t Christian’s?…..yet.!

I think if the last few years has taught us anything is that scientists can not be trusted. Especially scientists that believe in god.

Cool story- I like cool stories- where can I donate some money?

adam12 wrote:

"What was going through god’s mind when he made the dinosaurs ? ;);)
Back then He was really into lizards, big lizards, flying lizards, meat eating ones, vegan ones even ones that could swim. He liked watching them graze, He liked watching them eat each other. He liked watching them root each other and make more lizards. But that got boring so He did his smite thing and threw a big space rock at Mexico and started on making something else. Monkeys, all sorts of monkeys. The thing about monkeys is He found they are easy to adjust and upgrade and given some time and a lot of rooting He found you can make humans. The first half dozen or so were o.k., He made habilis, who was handy but stupid, so then He made erectus, who could walk upright but again not really what He wanted, so He smite them and made the Neanderthals, they were cool, but He was experimenting with humans at that stage so He also made Denisovan and some cute little ones He called florensiens and another He called naledi. They were all cruising around hunting and eating and rooting for a long time but still got boring to God so He got his rooting monkeys to spit out another one and He smite all the others, except the Neanderthals, when the new one, Sapiens, the one that looked like Him the most, was showing great promise but had started rooting the Neanderthals and He didn't want all the Sapiens to have red headed kids so He smite them too. So now He just had the Sapiens who spread out across the earth and progressed nicely because they were cognitive and had opposing thumbs and fingers which were very handy. At some point He decided He needed the Sapiens to know Him because they kept making up Gods and fucking things up and that pissed Him off a lot so he split Himself in three and sent one version, He called it his Son, into a Sapien woman's womb to teach the other Sapiens right from wrong and who really was God. Luckily she had an understanding husband at the time who didn't mind Him doing that because no sex was involved. Then He killed his Son when he was just getting a following to show the Sapiens they could still sin and fuck things up as long as they believed in Him and not all these other fake Gods they had created, but He wasn't really dead, it was just for show and He rose from the dead a few days later and disappeared back to God. No one could believe it back on earth, it all sounded a bit unreal, so God arranged for other Sapiens who did believe to put it all down in writing and pass it around. The turning point was when He got one of the Roman Emperors to believe in Him and the story about His Son and then it started getting the following He was looking for.
So today He has his followers who are special and will be able to go to Heaven, the place where He lives, with His Son and His ghost, because despite His incredulity, they got it and had faith He was the only real God, and the non believers, fuck 'em they can go to Hell.
Then there was the time He was making humans when He was drunk and He made Rosie O'Donnell and the Angel said to Him, "You can't put tits on that man" and God said "Fuck it, I can do what I want, I'm God" (a joke stolen from Family Guy)

Haha… good stuff right there ;)

But… but… it’s not a story.
It’s all real and based on facts - the historical evidence proves it ;);)

- All you have to do is replace the ‘h’ in he with a big h. Once you use ‘He’ to describe tales of fantasy it means you’re not making shit up.

It becomes legit and divinely accurate.
It also means you can bypass common sense and rational thinking ;)

You can even get tax free benefits if you wanna go corporate with your beliefs…
What a great deal.
All praise to he ;)

Thanks Andy12.
That was the best God story I've read in ages.
Cheers

Only fools mock their own maker.

The simplest and most accurate god story is:
We believe because:
he believed because
she believed
because he believed
because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed ....

Optimist wrote:

Only fools mock their own maker.

Nobody has mocked their parents in here.

frog wrote:

The simplest and most accurate god story is:
We believe because:
he believed because
she believed
because he believed
because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed ....

You need to capitalise the H in he for more effect.

And Tom Cruise believes in Scientology because:

he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed and he believed because she believed because he believed because they believed because he believed because he believed because they believed because she believed because he believed ....

Those are the only provable facts of the matter - that people believe because others did.

(where "he" refers to mere mortals)

Mattlock said "Thanks Andy12."
Optimist said "Only fools mock their own maker"

Yep, that Andy12 fucker going straight to Hell.