All Things Religion Thread

Frog interesting to see you stay clear of something that 's a false interpretation of something very real...I have been on USA forums with white evangelists , and exposed them that they can't pass the Jesus test , as he would not have built a wall or banned muslims or ....the list goes on....and yes Scomo is very twisted as there are a lot of real Christians out there who do not pretend like he does....

frog wrote:

Just observing the fruit on the tree as the bible teaches. Scommo is not that unusual or twisted - seems more the norm ( full of contradictions) - just in the spotlight.

Not an orchard with much appeal even if occasionally some good fruit are scattered here and there.

Imagine having to hang out with all those Trump loving evangelicals in the US. Creepy. But that is the fruit on the tree.

If those millions are all wrong and twisted why bother with something that can go so off track so easily?

If they are doing it right- i will stay clear of that sort of approach.

If they are wrong - I will stay clear again.

in your secular world , there is aklways room to change beliefs etc...in the true Christian World /Gospels I am not attacking , but merely showing you that Scomo does not have Christian morals in fact quite the opposite , like the Trump white evangelists , and a lot of the Churches....according to Jesus/The Gospels , Scomo/Abbott/Liberals the facts are that they have enacted there political/personal agendas to the detriment of the vey people who need help , are marginalized and society's most vulnerable...and that's a fact!

Cockee wrote:

Sorry brute but describing the PM as 'not a Christian' or 'evil' is just another cheap political point-scoring exercise. I would go as far as to say your attack is unchristian. A survey of ordinary Australians would be unlikely to include either description of the PM but you throw it around like it's fact.

Bob Brown foundation was an example of the problems with so called charity groups and why changes would be made, im sure its much more complex than some LNP hating Guardian article makes out.

The whole attacking Scomo as not being a Christian because of this or that is just lame, in exactly the same way it was lame when everyone attacked Peter Garret calling him a sell out and only in it for the money etc when in Politics.

Politics and life in general is all about compromises, and there is almost always a much bigger picture to most issues and often no set perfect solution.

BTW. Personally i don't think you can be a Christian and not be a conservative, i expect its a view the majority of Christians hold as so many ideas of the left go against Christian beliefs and principles and most on the left are anti Christian..

Indo there you go again , comparing apples to bananas and oranges...so called Charity groups that deal with homeless people/drug addicts/abuse victims/soup kitchens, volunteer groups ...not some irrelevant climate group...but real people issues not smoke and mirrors like Climate change..
LNP is right wing like you.....compromise does not exist in the Gospels , and Jesus was actually a radical who denounced a corrupt system including the church at the time....it's really amazing to see you try and categorize the Gospels as right or left therein lies the problem.....

do you actually know anything about the Gospels....I just realized you possibly don't, which makes it very tough to debate something that only one side actually knows the subject matter?

peter Garrett was always a bit of a hoax.....

indo-dreaming wrote:

Bob Brown foundation was an example of the problems with so called charity groups and why changes would be made, im sure its much more complex than some LNP hating Guardian article makes out.

The whole attacking Scomo as not being a Christian because of this or that is just lame, in exactly the same way it was lame when everyone attacked Peter Garret calling him a sell out and only in it for the money etc when in Politics.

Politics and life in general is all about compromises, and there is almost always a much bigger picture to most issues and often no set perfect solution.

BTW. Personally i don't think you can be a Christian and not be a conservative, i expect its a view the majority of Christians hold as so many ideas of the left go against Christian beliefs and principles and most on the left are anti Christian..

. Edit: on second thought i cant be bothered with this conversation.

Sorry ,,couldn't help myself re Peter Garret

of course you can't continue this conversation...as you would have to understand the subject matter and not just reactive comments!

indo-dreaming wrote:

. Edit: on second thought i cant be bothered with this conversation.

Brutus, thanks for calling Scomo out, I wish more Christians would. I'm sure many think exactly as you do. When I was young I lived near a Franciscan Monastery and got to know a few of the monks, they were such wonderful guys, lived under a vow of poverty, owned nothing, made everything themselves, wore simple robes. They had a noticeable serenity, glowing with it. Then I look at our PM and a guy like Stuart Robert and I see the opposite. They promote their faith yet to me they belong to Satan, evil drips off them like their souls are filled to the brim with it.

,

Hi Tubeshooter, that is one of the funniest video's which more than a touch of reality thrown ...it's rather ironic as I had dinner Sat nite with one of Australia's National musical Treasures ( Stu knows him quite well ) and his partner, and Peter Garret came up in conversation....from a musicians point of view and even an indigenous one, Garrett politicized his career , at the expense of the very people he claimed to support...sorta like Scomo pretending he is a Christian....so the Chasers brilliant.....am going to show him today for a chuckle!

tubeshooter wrote:

Sorry ,,couldn't help myself re Peter Garret

Adam , your story of growing up near a Franciscan Monastery......and their devotion to their faith is exactly what I am talking about when I say Scomo/Liberal Party, and for that matter Labor and the Greens etc......are not true Christian followers /believers as their actions show otherwise....if they were all true Christians our world would be a lot better off as our civilization has become one of greed , money and power at the expense of all the have nots , and the divide is growing....

when you look at the 4 pillars of a secular society ....the 4 x E's.....Energy/Economics/Equality and environment....all are crumbling before our eyes........anyone want to discuss?

adam12 wrote:

Brutus, thanks for calling Scomo out, I wish more Christians would. I'm sure many think exactly as you do. When I was young I lived near a Franciscan Monastery and got to know a few of the monks, they were such wonderful guys, lived under a vow of poverty, owned nothing, made everything themselves, wore simple robes. They had a noticeable serenity, glowing with it. Then I look at our PM and a guy like Stuart Robert and I see the opposite. They promote their faith yet to me they belong to Satan, evil drips off them like their souls are filled to the brim with it.

Looks like you’ve got through your chores Brutus, I’m sure there are some happy surfers out there. Unfortunately the 4 pillars problems you name are all easily solved if there is the determination to do so, but alas, greed has consumed the earth and it will take another intervention from God himself to fix it again.
We see in Matthew 4:9 who currently has the lease on the planet for while Jesus was fasting in the wilderness, Satan took him and placed him on a mountain top showing him all the kingdom's of the earth and their glory. He said to Jesus, all these kingdoms I will give to you if you bow down and worship me. Jesus told him to rack off, knowing the devils time was limited and his rebellion against God will bring him undone , as with all rebellious mankind at the appointed time.
It’s been a long rebellious road for man, we have all the resources to make humanity happy and prosperous but they are all out of balance and all the solutions to problems are there. Children suffer and die but not one of them will be abandoned by our Heavenly Father. He has them all in his hands. The body is temporal, the spirit eternal and placed into a new body at Gods will. Heaven is a beautiful place and after death those that get there will see what God has been up to. It is going to get much worse and very soon, but be encouraged because after the storm comes the calm. A great charismatic and very evil controlling global leader will rise up soon. Everyone will think he has all the answers. There will no longer be a gold standard for currency but a crypto standard allowing him to control the earths finances. Watch and be careful, don’t get tangled up in it but think about alternative solutions and wait until God Himself cleans all the bullies and war pigs away and restores a thousand year kingdom run by Jesus Himself. After this thousand years heaven and earth will be one place and the two races will become one. Death, war , hate and greed will be forgotten and the eternal kingdom will be the only one, filled with the people who through free choice chose God and not their own self interest .

Jeez those 70s Acid Trips did some Damage..

And who is this charismatic leader you doth speak of? Is it Putin? Poo Bear? The resurection of the Orange One? Little Rocket Man? Surely God could gives us a little hint?

Is the concept of passively (and often smugly) waiting for the end of days and taking a sort of pleasure in watching things go pear shaped, in the belief that it means a big fella in the sky will come and fix it all, good for the world? Seems a bit like "suffer away, not my problem" to me.

And what about timing? Jesus and his disciples spoke and acted as though the end of days would happen in their lifetime. Over 2000 years later we are still waiting.

So hop on board the end of days train, watch things go to shit, with not much care, concern or effort to fix the world as it is, and wait, is the answer?

What if the wait is another 2000 years or it never happens? Ooops, all that stuff we did not do (fix environment, war, improve society, economics etc.) mattered after all but we did nothing cause we thought somebody supernatural will fix it.

brutus wrote:

of course you can't continue this conversation...as you would have to understand the subject matter and not just reactive comments!

indo-dreaming wrote:

. Edit: on second thought i cant be bothered with this conversation.

More so that the topic doesn't interest me, ive had enough of it in my life.

When i was about 8 or 9 my parents become born again Christians, when i was about 12 my father then left his good job at the SEC to become a pastor at a pentecostal church on the coast, because apparently he had some calling or someone else told him it was gods plan or something.

I guess in that sense it was good as we moved to the coast and my father was still a good guy and actually got me into surfing and took me surfing, previously i was a skater, he was also good friends with lots of Christian surfers, as Christian Surfers group surprisingly very active on the island in the late 80s.

Ive never believed in God, not because i don't want too, just more because i can't just like ghost or aliens visiting earth, but obviously i had to go to church until a certain age (about 16 from memory) at which choice i was given the choice not too, and only time since ive ever gone to church is once in Australia (ha ha Hillsong actually) when visiting my sister(who is still religious) and in Indonesia out of respect for family or friends.

So yeah i lived and breathed it, ive had to read the bible and done all the other stuff, ive seen it all first hand, and i still remember too that there is countless verses in the bible dealing with not judging others especially about judging others faith and only God can do that.

All that said while i dont believe in god or have any faith, im not anti Christian or an atheist as such, and i think there is positive aspects to Christianity and religions in general, community, positive mindset/focus (especially prayer) but lots of BS too, and Christians are just people they are far from perfect, some good some not.

In regards to people judging Scomo as being Christian or not, there is so much BS around politics ad no matter what a politician does or says people will judge them harshly, in exactly the same way people judged Peter Garrett harshly.

The reality is they have to deal with real life situations and decisions, which means balance and compromise, Scomo isn't going to keep the Christians happy all the time and Peter was never going to keep the Green brigade happy all the time, id expect they both looked at the situation as, is it better to have us there doing our best doing what we can than someone with no christian or environmental principals whatsoever.

About the charity thing and your misguided rhetoric of LNP being anti charity, obviously completely BS obviously all government's wants real charities to operate as they help a government fill needs and ease pressure on government run services.

And off course there is some very good charities out there and very good people in them most you would hope.

However we have also seen many charities basically become business out to make money and using their charity in negative ways for political and social activism the whole social justice type groups many of these groups can be extremely damaging and as i provided with the example of Bob Brown foundation some of these groups even intentionally break the law wth members even arrested, but there is countless other groups that are basically just activist groups.

Obviously its beyond crazy that groups like this can operate as charities, this is where the government comes in trying to change things to weed out these groups and be able to take away their charity status.

Real charities would be in no way impacted, its the activist groups that would be impacted as they should because they aren't charities.

PS. In a rush so excuse any fk ups, no time to edit.

That was an interesting read indo, thanks …and yeh I’m not a fan of Hillsong froth, and I don’t like them in charge of the ACC, but I hear they do a lot of good community work and Morrison I think does his best with what he knows but I don’t like the way the libs and Labor have forgotten the battlers and the ones who need free uni and a home to live in etc etc. all these things are easy fixes and there are many of us who aren’t gun business people and need a helping hand from the gun business people as everyone has giftings and can contribute to society in different ways not just money wise. I liked someone’s comment a while ago that when you hit 999 million dollars you get a trophy and everything else over that goes back into society so there are no billionaires…ha.
God wants us to share , so always keep an eye out for people who are struggling. The single mum who’s car broke down, the old lady with bad legs who needs a gopher scooter etc etc …put your hand in your pocket and help without thinking. Most of us have a little extra to share as the need arises and we can point fingers at govts but generosity starts at home pretty much and harsh judgement ( not discernment) belongs nowhere.
Indo perhaps it’s time to cruise through the New Testament again now that your a more mature fella …it’s amazing how you see things differently with a bit of experience and a few grey hairs under your belt.

Indo , wow , now there's a testimony.......I think we had similar upbringings where I was made to go the church as my parents/Mother were Anglican, actually my Foster Mother was one of the highest women in the C of E, on the synod council , so I was a Sunday school teacher/altar boy/Choir member/boy scout etc...at 16 years of age they gave me a choice ....what to do with my life...I quit all of it and didn't go back to Church for nearly 50 years......so I lived a secular life for the last 50 years , partied, lived life to the max....pretty well documented....but I keep wondering what does it all mean ...and have had some very radical near death experiences , over 20......and also a couple of miracles recently where people/prayer , helped enormously , and life is now so much clearer , amazingly less stressed, full of hope and promise as my life experiences have shown me that the secular life was/is a dead end and does not bring any lasting joy/happiness or peace...
I find myself giving and giving ....and helping people less fortunate and people in need of what I have to offer.....it all makes so much sense , but it's the peace I have never experienced before that comes from trying to follow the teachings of the Gospel...there is no compromise or room for negotiating with God.....and those who do, like a lot of religions and people who claim to be Christian....so sometimes I might seem angry/arrogant and full of shit......evolution to become a better person through Christ , just makes so much logical sense....C S Lewis / The Chosen /John Smith ( God Squad/Melbourne) and so much more.....living is giving!

Frog, no passiveness , smugly waiting for the end of days......trying to find personal peace and meaning in a world that is just becoming more and more damaged , anger/money /power/hopelessness/homelessness.....being part of the solution brings that to your life....so what will fix the world in your opinion Frog??

frog wrote:

Is the concept of passively (and often smugly) waiting for the end of days and taking a sort of pleasure in watching things go pear shaped, in the belief that it means a big fella in the sky will come and fix it all, good for the world? Seems a bit like "suffer away, not my problem" to me.

And what about timing? Jesus and his disciples spoke and acted as though the end of days would happen in their lifetime. Over 2000 years later we are still waiting.

So hop on board the end of days train, watch things go to shit, with not much care, concern or effort to fix the world as it is, and wait, is the answer?

What if the wait is another 2000 years or it never happens? Ooops, all that stuff we did not do (fix environment, war, improve society, economics etc.) mattered after all but we did nothing cause we thought somebody supernatural will fix it.

hell is where all the sluts, drugs and prostitutes are going, im keen to party on in hell thanks.

GS , not sure where you got the idea Hell is a party.....hell is torture for eternity .....

groundswell wrote:

hell is where all the sluts, drugs and prostitutes are going, im keen to party on in hell thanks.

Heaven and hell, the greatest con job pulled on mankind

I have no real idea what hell is like. I know it was designed for fallen angels not men, but He won’t make two places. I do know it is a seperate place from God for those that hate Him and the thought of being separated from God would be punishment enough for me.

brutus wrote:

GS , not sure where you got the idea Hell is a party.....hell is torture for eternity .....

For not worshiping the invisible man in the sky who left no evidence he exists?
And he loves you!

Brutus, what will fix the world?

Big questions. I worry and ponder. the future.

Unlike those of a religious bent i know I don't have the answers and am not searching for a simple truth or a saviour from our troubles.

Based on the fruit on the tree, i don't think prayer or worshipping a mysterious supernatural being is going to help much.

To every complex problem there is a simple solution.... and it is usually wrong.

Frog , we cannot rely on man to fix the world ...I mean is there any man in history that you can look at and go..."yeah thats someone I can believe in , follow their example as the world will be a much better place to live in ......?"
I admired Ghandi/Mandela , but when you see India and South Africa and their cultures something is just not right.......but when I study and read about people who follow Christ and the positive changes in their outlook and lifestles , it's stunningly positive and there is a sense of peace that is no where else.......of course there is always twisted versions and people who claim they have found God/Christ.....but their actions often betray their true beliefs and corruption...
Communism and the idea that all are equal and to share all assets and problems seems noble but man fucks it up when greed money and power become their holy grail, so epic failure...
the idea and belief of a higher supernatural creator who loves us warts and all , forgives us , and has a set of rules to obey ...kindness/love/sharing and caring ...yeah we all fall off the God Bandwagon , but keep trying to be better , recognize mistakes/sins.....for me everything else has failed.....

frog wrote:

Brutus, what will fix the world?

Big questions. I worry and ponder. the future.

Unlike those of a religious bent i know I don't have the answers and am not searching for a simple truth or a saviour from our troubles.

Based on the fruit on the tree, i don't think prayer or worshipping a mysterious supernatural being is going to help much.

To every complex problem there is a simple solution.... and it is usually wrong.

“ ...I mean is there any man in history that you can look at and go..."yeah thats someone I can believe in , follow their example as the world will be a much better place to live in ......?"”

David Attenborough

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Attenborough

David Attenborough is an observer of what someone else has designed and is a nice fella alright. His care and concern for the planet right down to the tiny things should be an example to all of us to take more care.

David Attenborough believes in evolution so he is wrong. If evolution was true we would have people eating out of their bum and have people with five arms. Also he believes the earth is older than 6000 years old! and dinosaurs existed, dinosaur bones were put there to test our faith in the bible and the almighty lord.

Yes he does believe in evolution and that’s his choice. He cares about nature and that’s why I like him anyway. The earth has layers of animal / plant eras and ancient civilisations buried beneath us , but this modern world and current civilisation is quite young on the scheme of things. Albert Einstein could see a little deeper into things than David and he believed in creation and design.

“My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'.”

David Attenborough

edit- to optimist :So you don't believe the earth is 6000 years old? what kind of Christian are you?

TwsitedDrifter wrote:

David Attenborough believes in evolution so he is wrong. If evolution was true we would have people eating out of their bum and have people with five arms. Also he believes the earth is older than 6000 years old! and dinosaurs existed, dinosaur bones were put there to test our faith in the bible and the almighty lord.

Is this a serious comment or a blatant troll?

BTW. David Attenborough sure aint perfect anyway, he has been busted a few times now initially misleading the public notably the Polar bear and Walrus issues.

6000 years ago God got bored and decided to create the universe out of his mouth. He saw that he did a good job but needed to create life so he created life on only one planet in the universe- Earth.
After creating all the animals and plants and trees he decided to create a special animal: human kind who had empathy, intelligence and awareness unlike any animal seen before.
he gave them instructions on how to worship the lord above (the pyramids and the sphinx).
he made slavery a positive thing as they got the work done cheap and with little resources.
They all prayed to god every day and he helped them design projects.
Moses came along and had to have a word with the pharaoh as he had some slaves of Moses's people
Moses took his people and went back to his land separating the ocean in the dark red sea so his people could escape the Egyption army that were following them. he then let the sea swallow all the army after they made it across the sea. He then decided to go and speak to God up in the mountains and create ten commandments for all human life to follow and understand as all he saw was rape,thievery, murder and adultery amongst his people.
They didnt have paper or pencils back then so God scribed out his ten commandments on two rocks that Moses carried back to his town and everyone read them and followed them knowing Moses was a special individual who spoke to the lord.
If you broke one of these commandments you were soon sent to hell.

Rabbits you should fact check African eye worm which starts under the skin and can end up in the eye of more than just children from an infected fly bite and is a treatable disease like many others in a world out of balance and harmony.
And twisted…put the bong away for a while champ.

Rabbits , do you think that David would be able to deal with social/economic needs of our current civilization , not just environmental ones?

Rabbits68 wrote:

“ ...I mean is there any man in history that you can look at and go..."yeah thats someone I can believe in , follow their example as the world will be a much better place to live in ......?"”

David Attenborough

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Attenborough

@Optimist thanks for the heads up. David’s got this one wrong it would seem.

@Brutus it’s impossible to know for certain given he has chosen a different path to this point. If you dig a little deeper he actually has some interesting world views IMO. I suppose my point was that we need to think outside the box when it comes to potential leaders & leadership qualities.

In keeping on topic, I simply don’t see Religion as the vehicle to uniting humankind like yourself. The problem is not so much the vehicle, whichever it is, it’s the human factor. Unregulated egos. Religion hasn’t been able to solve this issue as yet.

Rabbs68 "Religion hasn’t been able to solve this issue as yet."

Never will.

Religion has unregulated ego's and power trips as much as anything else in life, its the human factor.

Ego is an issue for sure for even the most well meaning person. All I can suggest regarding life is seek truth and you will find it. If you feel there is a creator and your not just an accident, then talk to him and see what happens. The early mornings are best when the world is silent and the morning star rises…..
Plus you won’t miss the early waves
“Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened unto you. Everyone who seeks finds, and everyone who knocks the door will be opened unto them.”....Jesus

.

@Optimist speaking of not missing early waves, managed to score some this morning. Just myself early then two younger fellas paddled out. Very friendly vibes alround. Wedgy 2-3ft lefts in crystal clear water surrounded by a wild little setting. Pristine. As I made my way back up the track, the birds flittering and singing, I looked back upon that whole scene with great appreciation and wonder. Just so grateful to be amongst it. And not for the first time, I wanted to again thank someone or something for these simple yet profound moments. I've always kept a pretty open mind when it comes the big questions and will continue to do so. Each to their own just so long as no one is being forced, coerced or unnecessarily harmed.

Fantastic Rabbs68.

Yes that's the one "each to their own just so long as no one is being forced, coerced or unnecessarily harmed."

Unfortunately if we look through history and the present, religion as spouted by mankind has been the biggest culprit of that.

seaslug wrote:

Unfortunately if we look through history and the present, religion as spouted by mankind has been the biggest culprit of that.

Because God needs respect, he needs people to worship him and give him money. If you are born in a country that is mostly Hindu you will burn in hell as you believe in the wrong Gods. If you are born Muslim you are most likely a terrorist and need watching from the governments and united nations.
Jesus and his father God are the reason we exist. So please worship the true God not the fake ones like
Alah or Brahma or Vishnu or Shiva they will lead you with false hopes and lead you to hell.

This snip from episode 3 is for Vlad and Joe.....seems children can understand it .

Children are highly impressionable, let's see what they think in ten years time,

DEEP WATER FAITH…And they fished all night and caught nothing…Jesus comes along and says..” launch out into the deep and let down your nets”..Listen to Peters response…”never the less at your word I will let down the net”….Doubt your doubts but never doubt God. One word from Him can change everything…” and when they had done this they enclosed a great number of fishes and their net started to brake…there are a few lessons here…” He’ll involve you in one thing and teach you another”….soon He would involve them in a much bigger miracle..catching men for Gods kingdom….” He’ll use the familiar to do the incredible”…In their workplace where nothing special ever happened, He suddenly showed up and changed everything….” He will move you from the security of the shore to the risks of the deep”….. faith requires risk…no risk..no reward…..and finally…When you obey God nets start to break, needs are met, the miraculous happens and you feel the connection to the Almighty…What a way to live!!!

Your obsession with Morrison and Houston is really quite sad....back to basics perhaps?

What’s even sadder is your inability to see Morrison for what he truly is .

Supafreak , there is a Biblical passage that says , " the devil will come dressed as an Angel of light ,"
Meaning the "enemy" is cunning and is always tempting and controlling people who think they are following God's word....I think Scomo's actions betray his lack of Godliness and actually highlights his secular agenda. He fails the , "What would Jesus do ?" test pretty miserably!

Supafreak wrote:

What’s even sadder is your inability to see Morrison for what he truly is .