All Things Religion Thread

How is it that some of the biggest firking aholes horrible nasty people I've met working 35 years around the world (and in Australia) suddenly find religion and all is good now because of god, yeah sorry about that to all your victims or people you've killed

Sumerian great flood, Noah's role taken by Ziusudra, the Gods bailed earth and watched from above:

"
All the windstorms and gales arose together, and the flood swept over the …….

After the flood had swept over the land, and waves and windstorms had rocked the huge boat

for seven days and seven nights, Utu the sun-god came out, illuminating heaven and earth.
"

http://www.mesopotamiangods.com/the-sumerian-great-flood-the-flood-story...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziusudra

I have my own theory based on Genesis and years of study. Unfortunately Moses only gives us the short version of everything in earths early history when he wrote Genesis under Gods guidance.
My theory is this and it is just that, a theory….originally the earth was all joined together by land bridges ( Gondwana land)…It was all subtropical and around the earth were two layers. The ozone layer and the water layer. It never rained back then but the earth was watered by a global misting system. There were also huge amounts of water locked up underground. The UV damage on the earth was greatly reduced by there being an extra layer of protection. When God hit his reset button to wipe them out, the water layer around earth tuned to rain….serious rain that no one had ever seen. Also, the water under ground was broken up and surfaced.
Noah’s monstrous aircraft carrier was the only refuge. A massive ship 110 years in the making with 3 decks and a sample of all species that God wished to retain for the new world. No boat was ever bigger until world war two’ s aircraft carriers. It floated for a year with God chilling all His critters down into a less active state. The ark landed in now turkey and the new earth, with all its massive erosion and canyons and now great seas dividing continents became visible. More water locked back up underground. The fourteen cows fourteen sheep fourteen goats etc etc came in handy until new gardens could be established and of course Noah’s famous vineyard. God redistributes His retained species around the globe. Evil has been wiped from the face of the earth for a long season until the fullness of mans corruption reaches breaking point again. God will never flood the earth again while it remains. Mans lifespan gradually reduces capped to 120 years under his new environmental conditions.
If you apply my theory to your readings in Genesis it may bring it to life for you. See what you think.

Optimist wrote:

I have my own theory based on Genesis....originally the earth was all joined together by land bridges... It never rained back then but the earth was watered by a global misting system. ... When God hit his reset button to wipe them out, the water layer around earth tuned to rain….serious rain that no one had ever seen.

So, the laws of thermodynamics didn't exist until God pressed a button... and when he did, the dial was immediately wound up to 'extreme precipitation'?

This is a breakdown of the Noah's ark story scientific style (warning: long read)

https://ncse.ngo/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark

Optimist wrote:

I have my own theory based on Genesis and years of study. Unfortunately Moses only gives us the short version of everything in earths early history when he wrote Genesis under Gods guidance.
My theory is this and it is just that, a theory….originally the earth was all joined together by land bridges ( Gondwana land)…It was all subtropical and around the earth were two layers. The ozone layer and the water layer. It never rained back then but the earth was watered by a global misting system. There were also huge amounts of water locked up underground. The UV damage on the earth was greatly reduced by there being an extra layer of protection. When God hit his reset button to wipe them out, the water layer around earth tuned to rain….serious rain that no one had ever seen. Also, the water under ground was broken up and surfaced.
Noah’s monstrous aircraft carrier was the only refuge. A massive ship 110 years in the making with 3 decks and a sample of all species that God wished to retain for the new world. No boat was ever bigger until world war two’ s aircraft carriers. It floated for a year with God chilling all His critters down into a less active state. The ark landed in now turkey and the new earth, with all its massive erosion and canyons and now great seas dividing continents became visible. More water locked back up underground. The fourteen cows fourteen sheep fourteen goats etc etc came in handy until new gardens could be established and of course Noah’s famous vineyard. God redistributes His retained species around the globe. Evil has been wiped from the face of the earth for a long season until the fullness of mans corruption reaches breaking point again. God will never flood the earth again while it remains. Mans lifespan gradually reduces capped to 120 years under his new environmental conditions.
If you apply my theory to your readings in Genesis it may bring it to life for you. See what you think.

Well that explains it.....

Actually Ben your comment raises two very important and interesting points:

thermalben wrote:

So, the laws of [physics] didn't exist until God pressed a button...?

Are you sure this isn't actually the consensus view in physics: that the "laws" of physics came into existence when the big bang occurred, and that it doesn't make sense to talk or speculate about the idea of the "laws" of physics before the big bang? ​

thermalben wrote:

laws of [physics]

I also keep writing "laws" because it makes no sense to say "laws" of physics. It's more accurate to say our current theories of physics.

For example, people believed that Newton's "laws" were indisputable until new scientific devices enabled observation of nature at scales approaching the speed of light, on the subatomic scale, and at vey high energies. Newton's "laws" were violated and incorrect at these scales. Einstein's theories of special and general relativity, and quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, were developed and shown to be more accurate.

But these are not "laws" either since there's areas where they're inaccurate or leave large chunks of observable reality unexplained, such as dark matter and dark energy, the discovery of new particles and potential new forces not included in the standard model of particle physics (quantum field theory), the singularity of a black hole, the moment of and immediately after the big bang itself, the attempts of a theory of quantum gravity, etc.

People keep doing research in theoretical and experimental physics, spending billions of dollars building new particle accelerators/colliders and sending new telescopes up into space, because they are constantly stumbling across things about our universe that are not explained by, and indeed violate, our current theories in physics. They are trying to improve our theories and/or create completely new ones (like string theory) that are more accurate.

There's no such thing as "laws" of physics. There's only competing theories at various stages of development, which are just approximations with varying degrees of accuracy of what they try to explain or predict, and which leave large chunks of our observable universe are either unexplained altogether or explained inaccurately.

Conclusion: it is very hard to leave out the possibility of some kind of god or divine creator of everything. Contemporary theoretical physics does not necessarily rule out this possibility.

Remark: the above is even leaving out ideas of knowledge and meaning etc from the great philosophers of Kant, Popper, Kuhn, Russell, etc. Things get even more murky when one also considers ideas from philosophy.

OK gsco, now my head hurts.

Yes, you're right, though you're slightly over-thinking things. I was merely pointing out that Optimist's theory is seemingly a local blend of cherry picking, and fabrication.

Cool, and I'm not having a go. I just get excited about this stuff and spend a bit of time reading about it all.

thermalben wrote:

is seemingly a local blend of cherry picking, and fabrication.

Nice, and of course that explains everything about human behaviour towards the major events of importance in the current post-sanity times - covid, Russia/Ukraine, China, climate change, inequality and poverty...

gsco wrote:

.....

Nice, and of course that explains everything about human behaviour towards the major events of importance in the current post-sanity times - covid, Russia/Ukraine, China, climate change, inequality and poverty...

You can take this back a bit further GSCO, like waaay back. It is arguable that this is the way it has always been.

gsco wrote:

Cool, and I'm not having a go. I just get excited about this stuff and spend a bit of time reading about it all.

All good, didn't take it the wrong way - my Sunday morning irony just isn't as good as I think it used to be. I've learnt a heck of a lot from your posts, keep 'em coming!

there is a very big gap between (P1) modern physics "does not leave out the possibility of some of god or divine creator of everything" existing and (P2) we have reason to believe that god exists.

modern physics does not leave out the possibility that fairies exist in my garden, but there is no reason to think that fairies do live in my garden.

Everything but a logical contradiction (that is, "a and not a") is possible. Possibility gives us no indication of what exists.

if you are Christian, then God asks you to have faith. That's the key to Christianity -- faith. Not belief with reason. Arguing, that is reasoning, for God's existence is futile and also un-Christian.

gsco wrote:

.....

Conclusion: it is very hard to leave out the possibility of some kind of god or divine creator of everything. Contemporary theoretical physics does not necessarily rule out this possibility.

Remark: the above is even leaving out ideas of knowledge and meaning etc from the great philosophers of Kant, Popper, Kuhn, Russell, etc. Things get even more murky when one also considers ideas from philosophy.

Is there really a God? Does he live in the Metaverse?? Does this mean the end of contact between priests and their parishioners??? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-01/faith-metaverse-virtual-reality-c...

Imagine for a second that god was actually real.
Now imagine if this god somehow did get trapped in the metaverse.
The Metaverse set up by an evil villain, who was looking to take over the world.
The trap was set, god couldn't help himself and he had to check out this new 'alternate reality'.
Zuck, giggling feverishly slams the door closed on him, trapping him inside, "you're mine now aahaha".
Zuck is now more powerful than god (I assume that's what he dreams of)

Could make a movie from it haha

What would his avatar be? A bright shining light?? A black hole?? Or just a nondescript voice from above???

Richie Benaud?
Resplendent in his 'bone, cream, off-white, white, ivory or beige' jacket
"It's now 2:22 in the metaverse...."

Zuck can be Dr Evil

It would have to be a comedy...

Matthew 7…judge not that you not be judged, for whatever judgement you judge will be judged back on you and whatever measure you use it will be measured back to you. ..and why look at the speck in your brothers eye but do not consider the plank in your own eye.

Optimist wrote:

Matthew 7…judge not that you not be judged, for whatever judgement you judge will be judged back on you and whatever measure you use it will be measured back to you. ..and why look at the speck in your brothers eye but do not consider the plank in your own eye.

I’m confused, seem to recall you judging Grace Tame big time less than a week ago or is it a case of do as I say and not what I do?

Opti,
"judge not that you not be judged" But but but - what about judgement day? Is not judgment what it is ultimately all about? Is not the obsession with sin an obsession with judgment? If forgiveness is a tenant of the faith would not hell be empty?

"This day of judgment, also known as the Final Judgment, is when Jesus, the Son of God, will judge "the living and the dead" before destroying the old heaven and earth, which are corrupted of sin.

Sin can be defined as anything that opposes God’s will and law. To engage in sin is to disobey or abuse His laws. Because the urge to sin resides in human nature, mankind is corrupted and somewhat driven by the immoral inclinations that live in all people. This is a consequence of the fall into sin in the garden of Eden. Before creating His new heaven and earth, God must do away with anything that could produce or bear sin into His new creation.

Jesus Christ will act as the justice of the last judgment,"

Playing twister again guy, Grace tames behaviour with Morro then Albo was just an observation. You would have to be a simple soul to not see what was going on there…but it’s absolutely her right to try and influence people and get the party she likes in. Your an expert left influencer so you should know.
And frog…yes frog again…you will die one day as we all do , your spirit will leave your body and wait and face the judgement as we all will, then we shall all give an account to our creator of what we did with our lives. There is no escaping that.

Optimist wrote:

Playing twister again guy, Grace tames behaviour with Morro then Albo was just an observation. You would have to be a simple soul to not see what was going on there…but it’s absolutely her right to try and influence people and get the party she likes in. Your an expert left influencer so you should know.
And frog…yes frog again…you will die one day as we all do , your spirit will leave your body and wait and face the judgement as we all will, then we shall all give an account to our creator of what we did with our lives. There is no escaping that.

wow optimist, When it comes to judgement and criticism of Grace Tame, maybe we shouldn't be listening to overly-religious folk handing out their opinions about victims of child sexual abuse.
Fuck me champ, maybe you need to judge the rock spiders and their enablers in religious organisations before telling Grace Tame how to behave.

Sometimes you do have to think maybe there is a god.

Cause it would make sense that Victorians are getting punished with the worse summer of waves ever.

Its like okay guys you are so fucking stupid, you voted in a dictator who oppresses your own people and you still are so stupid that you will most likely not even vote him out.

I will punished you further with the worst summer of waves ever.

I blame Vic Local and his evil fascist racist minions.

Optimist wrote:

Playing twister again guy, Grace tames behaviour with Morro then Albo was just an observation. You would have to be a simple soul to not see what was going on there…but it’s absolutely her right to try and influence people and get the party she likes in. Your an expert left influencer so you should know.
And frog…yes frog again…you will die one day as we all do , your spirit will leave your body and wait and face the judgement as we all will, then we shall all give an account to our creator of what we did with our lives. There is no escaping that.

Opti old chap, sidestepping the awkward question as usual.

How do you live with the following contradiction day to day?

Do not judge except when it comes to:
- sin
- choice of religion, if any
- how other people live their lives
- which hole you put it in
- who you hang out with
- what you believe
Christianity and most religions are dominated by making judgements on what to believe and what others believe.

If you must judge cause the bible says to do so, don't hide that behind the cloak of a quote from Matthew.

Optimist wrote:

Playing twister again guy, Grace tames behaviour with Morro then Albo was just an observation. You would have to be a simple soul to not see what was going on there…but it’s absolutely her right to try and influence people and get the party she likes in. Your an expert left influencer so you should know.
And frog…yes frog again…you will die one day as we all do , your spirit will leave your body and wait and face the judgement as we all will, then we shall all give an account to our creator of what we did with our lives. There is no escaping that.

You’re just one in a very long line of religious folk who prefer the victims of sexual assault to remain silent or to be silenced behind confidentiality agreements. You really are a miserable piece of work Optimist

Keep on twistin guy….ha!…nice try…again….yawn.

Still being loose with the 8th commandment Optimist

GuySmiley wrote:

Still being loose with the 8th commandment Optimist

I'm tipping optimist is one of those bible cheery pickers, finding passages that justify being an arsehole, while ignoring all that stuff about Jesus helping the poor and marginalised.
He optimist, unlike conservative ""christians" Jesus didn't punch down champ.

I’d never argue with you Vic local because you are a whole ‘nother level to me. The way you carefully read comments get the context and reply is incredible so I’ll just back off…….plus you have a gun.

The old saying 'the empty vessel makes the most noise' comes to mind when I read the non-stop attacks from clowns like VL, GS and CAG. Like rabid dogs they hunt in packs and derive courage from numbers. Says a lot about them as people so wouldn't take any notice, Opti.

Cockee wrote:

The old saying 'the empty vessel makes the most noise' comes to mind when I read the non-stop attacks from clowns like VL, GS and CAG. Like rabid dogs they hunt in packs and derive courage from numbers. Says a lot about them as people so wouldn't take any notice, Opti.

From two guys who feel uncomfortable because a peodophile rape victim didn’t smile and make a man feel comfortable. A man who doesn’t really deserve the respect the office he holds should enjoy.So she must be lead by someone with ulterior motives.

Yes it says a lot about character and characters.

I would say Jesus the bible and religion is a shield for some people rather than a guide to better living.

Optimist wrote:

I’d never argue with you Vic local because you are a whole ‘nother level to me. The way you carefully read comments get the context and reply is incredible so I’ll just back off…….plus you have a gun.

Very wise choice.

Sorry sog, forgot to include your name - it was an honest mistake!

I wonder how all the priests in hell are doing?

Sunday Message…While the Romans were policing and conquering the world to expand their empire and while the so called priests were boring people with long prayers in public to justify their jobs and impress with seemingly Godly knowledge, Jesus the son of God Himself was on a grassy hill feeding 5,000 people with a young boys lunch. His conquest would not be over the Romans or the world as we see it, it would be over death and darkness.
A group of crowd funded young people have put together “ THE CHOSEN” and they’ve done an amazing job of presenting the life of Jesus. Believer or not, the historical value of this story is worth the watch and it streams free. Around 350,000,000 people are glued at present….it is that good.

Optimist , been reading but not commenting as there are so many snide comments , that really are just born out of a lack of knowledge and education ......as I travel around in NSW ( locked up for 2 years) , I have been amazed at how many young people are questioning their lives/futures and what to believe in...where is the hope for their secular future ??

As you said and quoted from Romans , a man ministered to the people for 3 years and had the most profound affect on the world present and future , meanwhile there was the greatest empire the World had ever seen ......and Jesus's words and actions forever changed us for the better and gave us hope of spiritual salvation.....civilizations come and go as ours is now...there is only one thing that stays the same......

the Chosen is the greatest story ever told , the amount of people who I have pointed in the Chosen direction and the willingness to at least watch and learn is inspiring...hope!!

Have a great Sunday Optimist...I know you already have a great life!

Optimist wrote:

Sunday Message…While the Romans were policing and conquering the world to expand their empire and while the so called priests were boring people with long prayers in public to justify their jobs and impress with seemingly Godly knowledge, Jesus the son of God Himself was on a grassy hill feeding 5,000 people with a young boys lunch. His conquest would not be over the Romans or the world as we see it, it would be over death and darkness.
A group of crowd funded young people have put together “ THE CHOSEN” and they’ve done an amazing job of presenting the life of Jesus. Believer or not, the historical value of this story is worth the watch and it streams free. Around 350,000,000 people are glued at present….it is that good.

How is being one of The Chosen and all that prayer working out for Scommo, personally and as a leader of our country?

Such high hopes from The Chosen to have one as PM with a hotline to god:
2018
“I think that people of faith around the nation are very much filled with hope that someone of Christian faith and principle is holding such a role in public life,” said Kristy Mills, the executive pastor. “I think there is a great hope that decision making will be influenced by godly principles.”

Gone well? Not so much.

An observer must wonder why?
- Bad connection?
- Wrong number?
- Disinterest ?
- No-one home?

A movie is a movie - watching Scommo as one of The Chosen is real life.

View this post on Instagram

frog, Scomo is as far from being a Christian as Bob hawke was.....don't judge , and or sentence Christians because of people/organizations who openly practice evil!

frog wrote:

How is being one of The Chosen and all that prayer working out for Scommo, personally and as a leader of our country?

Such high hopes from The Chosen to have one as PM with a hotline to god:
2018
“I think that people of faith around the nation are very much filled with hope that someone of Christian faith and principle is holding such a role in public life,” said Kristy Mills, the executive pastor. “I think there is a great hope that decision making will be influenced by godly principles.”

Gone well? Not so much.

An observer must wonder why?
- Bad connection?
- Wrong number?
- Disinterest ?
- No-one home?

A movie is a movie - watching Scommo as one of The Chosen is real life.

I don't think you are in any position to judge whether someone's a Christian or not, brute. By your posts we assume you're Christian but how you behave we don't know. Unrealistic in the extreme to expect a PM or President to behave as (you assume) Jesus would.

Cockee , there are a couple of examples where Abbott and Scomo claim to be Christians but their actions betray the very essence of Christian principles , one of them being to look after the poor and vulnerable in society.....I sent to following article a while ago to some academic Christians that I know.......https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/15/charities-are-sick.........

basically Abbott and Scomo have done the opposite to what Jesus preached...the word malevolent evil was used to describe the actions towards charities ......tax breaks for the rich and punish the poor, is not a Christian value........so not me judging others , people/academics a lot smarter than you or I or anyone on these forums just looked at the facts.....

Cockee wrote:

I don't think you are in any position to judge whether someone's a Christian or not, brute. By your posts we assume you're Christian but how you behave we don't know. Unrealistic in the extreme to expect a PM or President to behave as (you assume) Jesus would.

Scommo's behaviour and beliefs would be like 90% of the people in say Hillsong or most religious people I come across. I remember long threads on FB supporting Scommo during the Bushfire crisis by religious types - he was their man.

But he is evil you say. Maybe they are too. Thanks for the heads up. Phew, lucky I kept away from them.

Why does God not smote him quick smart like in the Old Testament days rather than let him lead the country?

There is always an excuse.

Prayer not working? Something terrible happens?
- your fault - you sinned somehow and one sin cuts you off from the grace.
- god is testing you
- god works in mysterious ways
etc.
What a tangled web. Happy not to be chosen me thinks.

Oh Dear
Malvolent..
there are a couple of examples where Abbott and Scomo claim to be Christians but their actions betray the very essence of Christian principles ......................

Cockee i may have some thing for your Perusal.

brutus wrote:

Cockee , there are a couple of examples where Abbott and Scomo claim to be Christians but their actions betray the very essence of Christian principles , one of them being to look after the poor and vulnerable in society.....I sent to following article a while ago to some academic Christians that I know.......https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/15/charities-are-sick.........

basically Abbott and Scomo have done the opposite to what Jesus preached...the word malevolent evil was used to describe the actions towards charities ......tax breaks for the rich and punish the poor, is not a Christian value........so not me judging others , people/academics a lot smarter than you or I or anyone on these forums just looked at the facts.....

Cockee wrote:

I don't think you are in any position to judge whether someone's a Christian or not, brute. By your posts we assume you're Christian but how you behave we don't know. Unrealistic in the extreme to expect a PM or President to behave as (you assume) Jesus would.

Thats garbage the problem is many charities these days are overly political and even socially damaging and are basically wolves in sheep clothing and not really charities at all.

For example the Bob brown foundation is listed as a charity, its ridiculous we are talking an origination closely linked to the Greens that does blockades and has had members arrested for locking themselves to machinery etc

https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/7202333/ad-prompts-bid-to-strip-bob...

indo/garbage based on what ..Bob Brown, FFS Indo I know you love the right wing stuff , but how did Bob Brown come into the conversation?
....read the article , and the amount of Church groups that have fantastic volunteers , and are being cut back etc....do you think the heads of the Charities are lying?

indo-dreaming wrote:

brutus wrote:

Cockee , there are a couple of examples where Abbott and Scomo claim to be Christians but their actions betray the very essence of Christian principles , one of them being to look after the poor and vulnerable in society.....I sent to following article a while ago to some academic Christians that I know.......https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/15/charities-are-sick.........

basically Abbott and Scomo have done the opposite to what Jesus preached...the word malevolent evil was used to describe the actions towards charities ......tax breaks for the rich and punish the poor, is not a Christian value........so not me judging others , people/academics a lot smarter than you or I or anyone on these forums just looked at the facts.....

Cockee wrote:

I don't think you are in any position to judge whether someone's a Christian or not, brute. By your posts we assume you're Christian but how you behave we don't know. Unrealistic in the extreme to expect a PM or President to behave as (you assume) Jesus would.

Thats garbage the problem is many charities these days are overly political and even socially damaging and are basically wolves in sheep clothing and not really charities at all.

For example the Bob brown foundation is listed as a charity, its ridiculous we are talking an origination closely linked to the Greens that does blockades and has had members arrested for locking themselves to machinery etc

https://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/7202333/ad-prompts-bid-to-strip-bob...

what I am talking about is the true essence of the teachings of the Gospel...not something that has been perverted/twisted to suit a political or personal agenda.....

it's rather ironic that you would judge God based on the behaviour of people who do the opposite to what is written in the Bible.....???

frog wrote:

Scommo's behaviour and beliefs would be like 90% of the people in say Hillsong or most religious people I come across. I remember long threads on FB supporting Scommo during the Bushfire crisis by religious types - he was their man.

But he is evil you say. Maybe they are too. Thanks for the heads up. Phew, lucky I kept away from them.

Why does God not smote him quick smart like in the Old Testament days rather than let him lead the country?

There is always an excuse.

Prayer not working? Something terrible happens?
- your fault - you sinned somehow and one sin cuts you off from the grace.
- god is testing you
- god works in mysterious ways
etc.
What a tangled web. Happy not to be chosen me thinks.

Just observing the fruit on the tree as the bible teaches. Scommo is not that unusual or twisted - seems more the norm ( full of contradictions) - just in the spotlight.

Not an orchard with much appeal even if occasionally some good fruit are scattered here and there.

Imagine having to hang out with all those Trump loving evangelicals in the US. Creepy. But that is the fruit on the tree.

If those millions are all wrong and twisted why bother with something that can go so off track so easily?

If they are doing it right- i will stay clear of that sort of approach.

If they are wrong - I will stay clear again.

Sorry brute but describing the PM as 'not a Christian' or 'evil' is just another cheap political point-scoring exercise. I would go as far as to say your attack is unchristian. A survey of ordinary Australians would be unlikely to include either description of the PM but you throw it around like it's fact.