COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster

Craig's picture
Craig started the topic in Wednesday, 18 Mar 2020 at 7:44pm

I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..

There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:00pm
burleigh wrote:

Im voting for United Australia Party as long as their preferences go to Campbell Newman as announced.
Labor & Liberal will be dead last.

Bring it on VicLocal. I'm ready

You do understand that a party doesn't choose where preferences go, you the voter chooses where preferences go with whatever parties you mark in the boxes after number 0ne..

The only way in which they(the party) have any type of say in where preferences go is on their how to vote cards, if you don't agree with their suggestions on where prefaces go simply ignore their suggestions and choose you own.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:18pm

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:20pm
thermalben wrote:

"I rest my case"?

'Case closed' ;)

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:23pm
shortenism wrote:

9, 10, 7, ABC do it all day every day so don't think its fair to put this 'lack of responsibility' for content argument squarely on me Thermal... And I can hear 'but they regurgitate from trusted sources'.. I rest my case.

You know, the credibility of a media source is often measured by the number of corrections they put out. All those 'ungodly MSN sources' do put corrections out.
Same goes for a person too.
The number of times a person admits they're wrong, is sign of credibility.

Let's have a show of hands how many times the following people have admitted they were wrong:

Shortenism.
Burleigh.
Robo.
Blowin.

Anyone got their hand up?

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:33pm

@gsco

Great post. I am guilty of cherry picking for my amusement, and it probably plays well to my biases.

I feel that misinformation warfare has really kicked into gear since Trump. He was the master of lying and destroying 'known truths'. He told so many lies that people gave up - worked out perfectly for him as his followers gained resolve in his transparency*, and his opponents just couldn't be bothered working through the lies (bullshit asymmetry principal - easier to make stuff up than to prove it wrong).

The transparency part is also interesting, given how distrustful people have become. Now if it's not smack you in the face obvious what the intentions of each political move is, it's something to be scared of. Hence why people like Trudeau and pretty much all left leaning leaders are getting smashed.

This has all played well into the covid misinformation we see now. Right leaning commentators are having a field day fuelling the distrust. Left leaning are just furthering themselves from the centre by burning bridges with those that oppose their views.

I think the important thing really is, there is only one truth. Opinions and interpretations are meaningless. And you absolutely have to judge what a person's saying by the level of accountability they hold.

Expert providing advice - high level of accountability.
Sitting politician - high level of accountability.
Contrarian expert trying to push alternative treatments to covid - low level of accountability.
People like Craig Kelly - low level of accountability.
People like Tucker Carlson - No accountability.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:47pm
Stok wrote:
shortenism wrote:

9, 10, 7, ABC do it all day every day so don't think its fair to put this 'lack of responsibility' for content argument squarely on me Thermal... And I can hear 'but they regurgitate from trusted sources'.. I rest my case.

You know, the credibility of a media source is often measured by the number of corrections they put out. All those 'ungodly MSN sources' do put corrections out.
Same goes for a person too.
The number of times a person admits they're wrong, is sign of credibility.

Let's have a show of hands how many times the following people have admitted they were wrong:

Shortenism.
Burleigh.
Robo.
Blowin.

Anyone got their hand up?

MSM only put out corrections if they are being threatened by lawyers of being sued, my Mrs tells me I am wrong everyday and she's probably right haha.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:48pm

Been keeping in touch with a good mate in Sweden over the last couple of weeks. He's telling me that now the mandates have been lifted, all the people that were pushing hard for mandates to stay in place and that scorned those who pushed back against it have all completely changed their tune, and are happy to live with covid now, because the government said it's ok. Even though, from the virus' perspective, nothing at all has changed, their whole ideology has changed. Will be interesting to see how that same thing plays out over here.
Something else, from a personal perspective. I've always maintained a stance of anti-mandate, and pretty hesitant about this current vaccine. But seeing people write off the virus as only affecting unfit people, etc, is actually not pleasant to read. There's alot of people that can be affected through no fault of their own, either through age, unexpected health issues etc. To just de humanize a part of the population to support an argument is as bad as shouting out how bad the vaccines are and those that are trying to push for mandates. A little bit of humanity would go a long way on this. We all know people that would be vulnerable to copping a whack from Covid, and as Goofy4 pointed out earlier, it would make sense to start the conversation moving towards what other ways can we protect those people moving forward.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:48pm

I vote @gsco for this forum moderator lol

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Robo's picture
Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:53pm
bluediamond wrote:

Been keeping in touch with a good mate in Sweden over the last couple of weeks. He's telling me that now the mandates have been lifted, all the people that were pushing hard for mandates to stay in place and that scorned those who pushed back against it have all completely changed their tune, and are happy to live with covid now, because the government said it's ok. Even though, from the virus' perspective, nothing at all has changed, their whole ideology has changed. Will be interesting to see how that same thing plays out over here.
Something else, from a personal perspective. I've always maintained a stance of anti-mandate, and pretty hesitant about this current vaccine. But seeing people write off the virus as only affecting unfit people, etc, is actually not pleasant to read. There's alot of people that can be affected through no fault of their own, either through age, unexpected health issues etc. To just de humanize a part of the population to support an argument is as bad as shouting out how bad the vaccines are and those that are trying to push for mandates. A little bit of humanity would go a long way on this. We all know people that would be vulnerable to copping a whack from Covid, and as Goofy4 pointed out earlier, it would make sense to start the conversation moving towards what other ways can we protect those people moving forward.

My son in Copenhagen says it's very nice there now, I have a Aunty in Sweden but havn't heard from her yet. Guessing would be the same.

bluediamond's picture
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bluediamond Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 5:55pm

Good to hear @Robo!

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 6:00pm
Stok wrote:
shortenism wrote:

9, 10, 7, ABC do it all day every day so don't think its fair to put this 'lack of responsibility' for content argument squarely on me Thermal... And I can hear 'but they regurgitate from trusted sources'.. I rest my case.

You know, the credibility of a media source is often measured by the number of corrections they put out. All those 'ungodly MSN sources' do put corrections out.
Same goes for a person too.
The number of times a person admits they're wrong, is sign of credibility.

Let's have a show of hands how many times the following people have admitted they were wrong:

Shortenism.
Burleigh.
Robo.
Blowin.

Anyone got their hand up?

Wow Stok. This is next level wrong.

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 6:11pm
burleigh wrote:

Wow Stok. This is next level wrong.

Sorry burlsack, things were just getting too level headed, and too much common ground was being formed.

Thought I'd knock this chat back down a few pegs ;)

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 6:44pm
Stok wrote:

@gsco

Great post. I am guilty of cherry picking for my amusement, and it probably plays well to my biases.

I feel that misinformation warfare has really kicked into gear since Trump. He was the master of lying and destroying 'known truths'. He told so many lies that people gave up - worked out perfectly for him as his followers gained resolve in his transparency*, and his opponents just couldn't be bothered working through the lies (bullshit asymmetry principal - easier to make stuff up than to prove it wrong).

The transparency part is also interesting, given how distrustful people have become. Now if it's not smack you in the face obvious what the intentions of each political move is, it's something to be scared of. Hence why people like Trudeau and pretty much all left leaning leaders are getting smashed.

This has all played well into the covid misinformation we see now. Right leaning commentators are having a field day fuelling the distrust. Left leaning are just furthering themselves from the centre by burning bridges with those that oppose their views.

I think the important thing really is, there is only one truth. Opinions and interpretations are meaningless. And you absolutely have to judge what a person's saying by the level of accountability they hold.

Expert providing advice - high level of accountability.
Sitting politician - high level of accountability.
Contrarian expert trying to push alternative treatments to covid - low level of accountability.
People like Craig Kelly - low level of accountability.
People like Tucker Carlson - No accountability.

"Expert providing advice - high level of accountability."

So what about people like Dr Robert Malone or Dr Peter McCullough, surely you dont believe everything they say and they are extremely well qualified in their fields.

or what about Anthony fauci and all his flip flopping and mixed messages?

Or the WHO who back in Feb 2020 urged countries not to close borders to China? (apparently Trump was racist for doing so)

Or remember when the source of Covid being from the Wuhan lab was a conspiracy theory banned from social media? (Hate to say it but Trump did suggest this was a possibility from day one)

Or remember when so called experts said vaccines prevent transmission of Covid???

And what about the experts predications on numbers?...that rarely are anywhere in the ball park.

And on and on....

BTW. Oh and disinformation and complete BS sure aint just a right wing thing, this is possibly the most classic piece of visual media BS ever.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:13pm

Nurses protesting on strike today because of being overworked would of got instant results if most had of refused the jab like the 1k plus that got sacked just in nsw.
0 = Sympathy here, getting paid by tax payers trying to run business during the last 2 years, or have lost their business/jobs all together.
Pull your heads in and be thankful You have a job, we have one family member pouring coffees and working in a music shop v knocking back the 2 year nursing contract he was given in the biggest hospital between Newcastle and Gold Coast, straight out of uni after 3 years hard work.
Yeah yeah hope I don’t end up in hospital blah blah, why should they get a free pass.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:07pm
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:12pm
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

You said you would never vote Labor or Liberal again, but if you vote for the UAP you have to preference the Labs or the Libs to make your vote count. (assuming there's no strong independent or green in the final two) The UAP have no chance of winning any lower house seats so you have two choices: Preference one of the majors or vote informal so your vote goes to nobody.
I'm tipping a dopey clown like you would take the "dick and balls on the ballot paper" option.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:15pm
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:20pm
Vic Local wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

You said you would never vote Labor or Liberal again, but if you vote for the UAP you have to preference the Labs or the Libs to make your vote count. (assuming there's no strong independent or green in the final two) The UAP have no chance of winning any lower house seats so you have two choices: Preference one of the majors or vote informal so your vote goes to nobody.
I'm tipping a dopey clown like you would take the "dick and balls on the ballot paper" option.

So when they have publicly said their preferences will go to Liberal Democrats. And vice versa what does that mean?

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:20pm

Clive’s add on TV..worrying about super going offshore…is hilariously hypocritical. He never gave a toss about his workers super. Short memories people have.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:21pm
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

I don’t believe clot Morrison or that other old fucker are any better.

Is that a good enough answer?

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:24pm
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

I don’t believe clot Morrison or that other old fucker are any better.

Is that a good enough answer?

No

Explain how Palmer has your best interest in mind

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:33pm
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

I don’t believe clot Morrison or that other old fucker are any better.

Is that a good enough answer?

No

Explain how Palmer has your best interest in mind

I don’t believe that any of them have my best interests in mind.

I believe they are all cunts including Clive.

Clive has publicly spoken up against the handling of Covid, because he is not controlled by faceless business men. He doesn’t give a fuck

For this Clive gets my vote. I don’t give a fuck if it makes him richer. Good on him. He’s spending his own money for his campaign. No donations from business men expecting something in return

Albo, clot Morrison and the greens can go and get fucked.

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:36pm
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

I don’t believe clot Morrison or that other old fucker are any better.

Is that a good enough answer?

No

Explain how Palmer has your best interest in mind

I don’t believe that any of them have my best interests in mind.

I believe they are all cunts including Clive.

Clive has publicly spoken up against the handling of Covid, because he is not controlled by faceless business men. He doesn’t give a fuck

For this Clive gets my vote. I don’t give a fuck if it makes him richer. Good on him. He’s spending his own money for his campaign. No donations from business men expecting something in return

Albo, clot Morrison and the greens can go and get fucked.

Well Burlsack, the shitty propaganda you read religiously has worked a treat on you.

You've nhillism is perfect to continue the destabilisation of our current democracy.

Oh, and I do agree with you, Clive doesn't give a fuck alright. He'll gladly sell out Australia's future for his own gain.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:46pm
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

Want to explain why a billionaire coal miner with questionable and poorly articulated political motives deserves anyone’s vote?

I don’t believe clot Morrison or that other old fucker are any better.

Is that a good enough answer?

No

Explain how Palmer has your best interest in mind

I don’t believe that any of them have my best interests in mind.

I believe they are all cunts including Clive.

Clive has publicly spoken up against the handling of Covid, because he is not controlled by faceless business men. He doesn’t give a fuck

For this Clive gets my vote. I don’t give a fuck if it makes him richer. Good on him. He’s spending his own money for his campaign. No donations from business men expecting something in return

Albo, clot Morrison and the greens can go and get fucked.

It's like this Hunter S Thompson was designed for Palmer and Burleigh.
“The main problem in any democracy is that crowd-pleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage & whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy—then go back to the office & sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece.”

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 7:52pm
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:
burleigh wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Shortenism. The vax gives you AIDS and Burleigh I’m voting for Clive. Has anyone seen shortenism and Burleigh in the same room? I reckon they might be the same person because surely there’s not two people as stupid as that on this planet.

Vote 1 - Clive. Why shouldn’t I Vic?

You said you would never vote Labor or Liberal again, but if you vote for the UAP you have to preference the Labs or the Libs to make your vote count. (assuming there's no strong independent or green in the final two) The UAP have no chance of winning any lower house seats so you have two choices: Preference one of the majors or vote informal so your vote goes to nobody.
I'm tipping a dopey clown like you would take the "dick and balls on the ballot paper" option.

So when they have publicly said their preferences will go to Liberal Democrats. And vice versa what does that mean?

It just means on their how to vote cards they both suggest to put each other down as number two, so if you follow their how to vote card and UAP dont win a seat your vote then flows onto Liberal Democrats, but if they dont win a seat your vote flows onto your third box you tick and so on, so yeah its highly likely your vote will end up with LNP or Labor which ever one you put first. (assuming UAP or Liberal democrats dont get a seat)

So yeah you might hate both majors but you need to decide which one you hate most, and maybe consider the scenario of what will happen if a new Covid strain pops up in six months that is more deadly and things really turn to shit, you probably should have a think about which party of the two are going to be more full on in regard to lockdowns and vaccine mandates ect and maybe put the other party in the box before them.

Rochko B's picture
Rochko B's picture
Rochko B Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:13pm
Roadkill wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Trudeau created a political emergency out of nothing. He needs to be put up against the wall. Dictators are not welcome in democratic societies.

https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1493348317895528458?ref_src=twsrc...

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1493310278615904269?ref_src=twsr...

strange...an elected dictator. Wonder how that works?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:17pm

Hey Rochko,
Welcome. Good to see a new commenter here. I will give you a little tip about blowin. He's a bullshit artist, he never apologises or corrects his lies, he's a racist,, oh, and a complete muppet as well.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:27pm
Vic Local wrote:

Hey Rochko,
Welcome. Good to see a new commenter here. I will give you a little tip about blowin. He's a bullshit artist, he never apologises or corrects his lies, he's a racist,, oh, and a complete muppet as well.

Way to welcome someone, your the only arse licking muppet on here.
You need the shit punched out of you, only way to fix someone like you.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:12pm
gsco wrote:
thermalben wrote:

Out of interest, on a scale of one to ten, how do you classify someone as a 'loose unit'?

At what point can they be bagged, and at what point do you stop, and start feeling sorry for 'em?

My point is: some people clearly look like they're unhinged. But, the most dangerous people are those who don't.

Let me clarify what I mean, and yes I haven't said it well at all.

I don't care about bagging people. I agree it's a birthright. And I think it's super funny. Including when people bag me (and Roadkill has done some good ones, keep 'em up). I can be a quite unhinged sometimes too. And I bag people all the time myself.

What I didn't agree with above was people cherry picking the most extreme unhinged loose units from the protests and trying to make it look like everyone in the protests were like this. It's just not true.

I might be wrong, but I was actually trying to get at with the above posts on bagging people, the point I was trying to make, was it appeared at times that certain people have posted pics and/or videos of these extreme loose units under the guise of "just trying to be funny" or "just trying to bag them" but really they seemed to be indirectly joining in the "debate" but doing it "in disguise" by pretending that they weren't.

What I really don't agree with is the style of debate and discourse everywhere in society now - in politics, social media, news media, this thread, etc. Social media has magnified it beyond extreme and seemingly beyond repair.

It's not a lot of sensible, meaningful debate that we're seeing going on around us in politics or life, or in this thread.

It's all just selective cherry picking, ignoring alternative evidence, taking things and comments out of context, personal attacking and discrediting and undermining, ganging up, discrediting and defaming the source (and not even reading it), not playing the ball, diversions and distractions, misdirection, shifting the topic, fear mongering, ignoring core arguments people are trying to make, twisting people's arguments into something they are not actually trying to argue, presenting obviously dishonest content and fabrication and lies, trying to cancel and censor people, personal abuse and attacking, etc.

People just start with a political and/or ideological bias or extreme stance on something and just use any warfare-like tactics of misinformation, propaganda and deception etc to prove and reinforce their bias or ideology. I see people doing this day in day out in this thread, in politics, the media, workplaces, in the home, everywhere. It's kind of all people do on social media. The ABC is as bad as anyone for doing this. The people handling the covid decision making for our society seem to be among the worst for this too.

Actually my online workplace has been torn apart from it. it started with the Trump division and then morphed into covid. People have had to resign due to the division and polarisation. Some of my circles of friends have been separated. And people regularly mention families have been torn apart.

The Trump and now covid division, polarisation and politicisation has devoured society. We seem to be lost in it with no let up in sight. Where will the division and polarisation end? Often it seems that the covid polarisation actually is just Trump polarisation. It's nearly fair to say that US politics has spilled over and ruined Australian society.

Yes, totally accuse me of being a naive simpleton who came down in the last rain shower, and say something like "what are you on about mate, that's just how life and particularly politics is and always has been, wake up." I'll 100% agree with that one. It's true.

I agree with your point though. The most dangerous people are those who are well educated, well articulated, even inspirational and charismatic, etc, but who are deceptive and pushing extreme agendas.

spot on gsco

the problem with covid, is the whole thing has been seen / addressed through a pro trump / anti trump lens...

(as the neoliberal order desperately tries to maintain its dominance...)

reducing every issue to a pro / anti binary has not been kind to the established neoliberal order - as they have overplayed their hand on nearly every single issue, operating through a lens of absolutes, derangememt, and automatic opposition...

any rationality once practiced has been long forgone, as they seek to submerge what they literally see as 'evil' ...many moderate commentatotors have noted this... that once, any portrayals of 'good and evil' were solely the domain of the christian right - but now the 'progressives' have adopted this framing, to justify their (over)reactions to anything trumpian...

basically, trump has wedged the woke and the neoliberals for the last five years... every issue, one after another, and the results have not been pretty...

now i will get the usual cries of bias and you're a trumper from the usual suspects... but the reality is, I'm not... Im probably closest politically to that derogatory term 'bernie bros.' (sigh... another slur...) and we do not see everything through this trumpian exclusionary principle binary, because we saw bernie and trump saying very similar things for considerable time prior to 2016... so most of us can accept trump's ramblings on face value... without the 'deranged again' triggering (that trump used so expertly to do just that...)

and this is where the public comes in, the joes, the normals, the not really partisans, the swingers, the independents... they also can take trump on face value... and assess each issue on its merits...

and the outcome of all this...

well, just look at biden... look at faucci... the general covid mess... and the waning left influence stok attributes to everything but the truth...

people see through all the bullshit

and indo's post barely scratches the surface of bullshit...

joe public is much smarter than your blindboy's, vicvocal's, and stok's give them credit in the constant disdain they display towards these people, ...these people may not have a degree... but they clearly have a better bullshit detector than these terribly typical 'progressives' do...

bias and emotion are a dangerous combination, regardless of situation... and a certain cohort has had this combination wedged up their arses for five years now... totally clouding any rational assessment from them, on every single issue...

blame misinformation and the internet all you like... this is the new game... and the nyt, wa-po, cnn, etc. crew play it as hard as anyone...

so any calls for regulation is just more bias, more emotional response... and more authoritarian tendencies, coming from you know who...

and tbh, the last five years of gratuitious gaslighting from these 'progressives', about every issue... every woke overeach... every accepted 'truth'... every 'conspiracy'... ...hasn't really panned out well for the bullshit ledger...

not well at all!

it's like tucker carlson deals more in facts than they do...

as annoying as he is

adam12's picture
adam12's picture
adam12 Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:47pm

Sypkan, agree with a lot of your post. Had a feeling you were a Bernie booster.
A question, what game is FoxNews playing, the same one?
And an observation about 'gaslighting', todays most overused misunderstood term.
My understanding is that the term applies in the context of an abusive personal relationship and has been hijacked to apply to any form of what used to be called 'bullshit'. It originated from a play about an abusive relationship, where the gaslights in an apartment were altered to make a woman question her sense of reality. I may be wrong, often am, but it is one of those words, like 'woke' that shit me when I hear or see it. I just call bullshit 'bullshit'.

shortenism's picture
shortenism's picture
shortenism Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:54pm

More evidence of severe motivation to divide and corrode community fabric on this thread by the usual drugged up goons like Roadkill, VL, Stok and you know who you are.

At a Senate Committee Hearing yesterday (yep go and dig it up) Australian Federal Police Commissioner Reece Kershaw confirmed that the Canberra protest was :-
1) The largest protest seen in Canberra since the 1980s; and
2) Well behaved (with many families and children present).

Don't shoot the messenger.

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:54pm

The word gaslighting is being used as a defensive term in this thread by people who have chosen to believe different opinions to the commonly held truth. It's an attempt to focus blame on someone who's calling out a batshit crazy idea, by making them seem sinister in motives or overly biased.

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:56pm
shortenism wrote:

More evidence of severe motivation to divide and corrode community fabric on this thread by the usual drugged up goons like Roadkill, VL, Stok and you know who you are.

At a Senate Committee Hearing yesterday (yep go and dig it up) Australian Federal Police Commissioner Reece Kershaw confirmed that the Canberra protest was :-
1) The largest protest seen in Canberra since the 1980s; and
2) Well behaved (with many families and children present).

Don't shoot the messenger.

Hold on Shortenism, are you sure you didn't miss numbers 3) and 4)?

3) Significant portion of the protesters referred to the members of the government as 'Satanic Paedophiles'
4) An even larger number called for them all to be sacked

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Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:58pm
Robo wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Hey Rochko,
Welcome. Good to see a new commenter here. I will give you a little tip about blowin. He's a bullshit artist, he never apologises or corrects his lies, he's a racist,, oh, and a complete muppet as well.

Way to welcome someone, your the only arse licking muppet on here.
You need the shit punched out of you, only way to fix someone like you.

Yes robo, now take your pills and have a good lie down champ.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 8:59pm
Stok wrote:

The word gaslighting is being used as a defensive term in this thread by people who have chosen to believe different opinions to the commonly held truth. It's an attempt to focus blame on someone who's calling out a batshit crazy idea, by making them seem sinister in motives or overly biased.

You mean blame shifting culture cancelling ??

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:00pm
sypkan wrote:

joe public is much smarter than your blindboy's, vicvocal's, and stok's give them credit, they may not have a degree... but they clearly have a better bullshit detector than these terribly typical 'progressives' do...

Yeah, Joe Public here in Oz is actually quite smart.

Because the vast majority of people happily listened to our scientific institutions and got vaccinated. They didn't feel the need to play connect the obscure dots, and link vaccinations for covid to authoritarianism.

Unlike this thread, which is thankfully not representative of Joe Public.

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Vic Local Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:01pm
Stok wrote:
shortenism wrote:

More evidence of severe motivation to divide and corrode community fabric on this thread by the usual drugged up goons like Roadkill, VL, Stok and you know who you are.

At a Senate Committee Hearing yesterday (yep go and dig it up) Australian Federal Police Commissioner Reece Kershaw confirmed that the Canberra protest was :-
1) The largest protest seen in Canberra since the 1980s; and
2) Well behaved (with many families and children present).

Don't shoot the messenger.

Hold on Shortenism, are you sure you didn't miss numbers 3) and 4)?

3) Significant portion of the protesters referred to the members of the government as 'Satanic Paedophiles'
4) An even larger number called for them all to be sacked

And also one or shortenism's "normal well behaved" friends has just been arrested with a loaded illegal weapon and a map of Parliament House.
Still haven't heard any of the cooked nut jobs on this site condemning that violent crackpot.

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:02pm
GuySmiley wrote:

You mean blame shifting culture cancelling ??

Ugh....probably?

My head hurts.

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burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:13pm
Stok wrote:
sypkan wrote:

joe public is much smarter than your blindboy's, vicvocal's, and stok's give them credit, they may not have a degree... but they clearly have a better bullshit detector than these terribly typical 'progressives' do...

Yeah, Joe Public here in Oz is actually quite smart.

Because the vast majority of people happily listened to our scientific institutions and got vaccinated. They didn't feel the need to play connect the obscure dots, and link vaccinations for covid to authoritarianism.

Unlike this thread, which is thankfully not representative of Joe Public.

You are wrong. Joe Public got threatened with no job, no pub and no fun. Every single person that was coerced into an experiment was lied to. "get vaccinated to protect your community" is a good one.
Luck we all have a voice come election time. Vote 1 big Clive.

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burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:15pm
Vic Local wrote:

Hey Rochko,
Welcome. Good to see a new commenter here. I will give you a little tip about blowin. He's a bullshit artist, he never apologises or corrects his lies, he's a racist,, oh, and a complete muppet as well.

Blowin is the wisest human here.

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etarip Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:21pm
shortenism wrote:

At a Senate Committee Hearing yesterday (yep go and dig it up) Australian Federal Police Commissioner Reece Kershaw confirmed that the Canberra protest was :-
1) The largest protest seen in Canberra since the 1980s; and
2) Well behaved (with many families and children present).

Don't shoot the messenger.

You got a link to that?

AFP Commissioner was at Senate Budget Estimates yesterday. Here’s the transcript of his opening speech:

https://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/afp-commissioner-reece-...

There’s another series of interviews online (gasp…. in the… *cue scary music*. MSM….. arrrrggghhhh) where he’s on record as saying:

[Commissioner Kershaw said that on the whole, the protesters were "pretty well behaved".
“It was more … those individuals within those groups," he said.
"It was just, you know, a few who decided to commit offences."
Commander Champion agreed, and said that "as a whole, they were well behaved".]

Same source says that it was “up to 10000 protestors”, with no mention of the size of the protest compared to others since 1980.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-15/four-protesters-arrested-at-cotte...

Interested in where you got your quotes from.

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:24pm

Burleigh:

"Vote 1 big Clive."

Also Burleigh:

"Blowin is the wisest human here."

Ok ok ok, haha! You really got me, I actually thought you were being serious this whole time. But the jig's up pal!

Far out I've been properly fooled.

Thanks Burleigh.

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Robo Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:27pm
Vic Local wrote:
Robo wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

Hey Rochko,
Welcome. Good to see a new commenter here. I will give you a little tip about blowin. He's a bullshit artist, he never apologises or corrects his lies, he's a racist,, oh, and a complete muppet as well.

Way to welcome someone, your the only arse licking muppet on here.
You need the shit punched out of you, only way to fix someone like you.

Yes robo, now take your pills and have a good lie down champ.

Don’t worry I know your type, all mouth, would piss your pants if confronted.

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gsco Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:48pm

sypkan a lot of what you said resonates with me. I see a lot of it in the people I work with, who are all scattered around the world - UK/Ireland, US, Mexico, Aus, Hong Kong - and we all work "together" (lol) online via Slack.

I find it hard to put it all into words, but everything changed with Trump. Any trace of decency, reason, honesty, rational debate, understanding, tolerance, acceptance, etc, was basically abandoned. Everything became a hardline political Trump vs anti-Trump war.

People seemed to discard their own personal values and beliefs, and identify their stance on every issue, including covid, based on Trump vs anti-Trump lines. This happened particularly with anti-Trump people who could not be seen as siding with Trump on any social issue at all under any circumstance.

The anti-Trump people gang up and try to label as a pro-Trump and then oppress, undermine, discredit and basically crush anyone who may have agreed with Trump on any issue at all, even only just one issue. They do it relentlessly and try to completely destroy and cancel their opposition using any warfare tactics they can like manipulation, deception, gaslighting, misinformation, discrediting, etc - anything but reasonable, evidenced debate and discourse.

Watching the US anti-Trump guys go at it is quite startling. They cannot accept for one second that there are other humans on this planet that hold different views to them and who have equally valid evidence for their views. This thread is interesting to me in this way because these anti-Trump people are exactly like various people in here.

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etarip Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:36pm

Shorto, reasonable job of cut and pasting the senate estimates transcript. You might have left a few pieces out. I’ll leave this here for any nerds that like trawling:

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMI...

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:38pm

Come on Robo, we don't need more threats of violence from the anti everything crowd. You lot have gone well above your quota.

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Stok Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:47pm

Do I have to be branded as anti trump, for seeing him as what he is?

A compulsive liar, a cunning manipulator and a real internal threat to democracy?

I don't pride myself in being involved or having an opinion in any which was in seppo politics. But I'm not stupid, Trump's actions have had far reach, and they've been cataclysmic. It's brought in the era of entitlement of ones own truths - to the point where people are feeling empowered to try to break the system. The anti everything movement here resonates well with this. Clive and the UAP to a good job to appropriate it in Australia, but even they are not 'Trump enough' for the real core supporters.

I genuinely feel sorry for those that are pro-trump, they obviously felt extremely disenfranchised to the point where they were willing to accept the many failings and threats Trump brought with him.

All I can say is glad I'm not in the US, because 2024 is coming quickly, and it's not looking pretty. Thanks almost entirely to Trump and his followers. Not that the shockwaves won't continue to be felt here.

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sypkan Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 10:11pm
adam12 wrote:

Sypkan, agree with a lot of your post. Had a feeling you were a Bernie booster.
A question, what game is FoxNews playing, the same one?
And an observation about 'gaslighting', todays most overused misunderstood term.
My understanding is that the term applies in the context of an abusive personal relationship and has been hijacked to apply to any form of what used to be called 'bullshit'. It originated from a play about an abusive relationship, where the gaslights in an apartment were altered to make a woman question her sense of reality. I may be wrong, often am, but it is one of those words, like 'woke' that shit me when I hear or see it. I just call bullshit 'bullshit'.

fox news... they have played a huge role... but a totally overstated one as well...

fox news actually has a lot of quality journalists, and their straight news is nowhere near the bullshit people like to portay it as.

the opinion dudes however... that is another matter, it's bias as fuck, and shamelessly so... they even admit it...

the problem is the 'progressive' news outlets have adopted exactly the same tactics over the last decade or so, yet they deny it...

they like to present themselves as objective presenters of reality, but they are not... glenn greenwald and matt taibbi (progressives) have written extensively about this. how cnn, nyt, wa-po etc. have become the democrat party propaganda conduit... ffs some nyt chick even admitted it...

gaslighting:

yep, totally overused and misrepresented... and tbh, understanding the uses and meaning is quite subtle, and takes time to sink in really...

but yes, basically, it is presenting a different reality, to cover one's true intentions or what is really happening...

so a little more complicated than pure bullshit...

the democrats and the progressive media have made an absolute art form of it

Im reluctant to include some of these examples ...because they'll instantly trigger some people... but the reality is, the media, and the democrats, have blatantly mistepresented these situations for political gain...

russia mk 1, 11, and 111, and ongoing.... (there was a 'conspiracy' alright, but it wasn't no theory... (see the hilary hacking revelations this week for ongoing confirmation (it won't be on cnn! ... but it's most definitely a thing...))

the lab leak 'conspiracy' -again, reverse the players... and there is a conspiracy... a conspiracy of cover up, a heap of them... that's without even waiting for leak cinfirmation!

the corona gaslighting has been endless actually...

hunter's laptop - "russian misinformation campaign" ...until it wasn't, it's clearly hunter's... even if some press are yet to admit it... still...

which lead to an endless array of 'big joe' gaslighting...

'peaceful protests' - lasted 3 months... until the polling changed...

'defund the police' - "is not a thing" ...except it clearly was...

CRT - "is not in schools" ....except it already was, and was celebrated as such for quite some time, until it became on the nose...

the great reset - "is a conspiracy" ...except that it is an open secret, freely available on WEF website no less...

the bullshit list is endless

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shortenism Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 9:58pm

I listened to it. But yeah of course there was a lot more discussed than what I listed. Thanks for sharing the link. This is what everyone needs to be tuning into. These committees are where the hard questions are getting asked and many squirming responders.

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burleigh Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022 at 10:04pm
Stok wrote:

Do I have to be branded as anti trump, for seeing him as what he is?

A compulsive liar, a cunning manipulator and a real internal threat to democracy?

I don't pride myself in being involved or having an opinion in any which was in seppo politics. But I'm not stupid, Trump's actions have had far reach, and they've been cataclysmic. It's brought in the era of entitlement of ones own truths - to the point where people are feeling empowered to try to break the system. The anti everything movement here resonates well with this. Clive and the UAP to a good job to appropriate it in Australia, but even they are not 'Trump enough' for the real core supporters.

I genuinely feel sorry for those that are pro-trump, they obviously felt extremely disenfranchised to the point where they were willing to accept the many failings and threats Trump brought with him.

All I can say is glad I'm not in the US, because 2024 is coming quickly, and it's not looking pretty. Thanks almost entirely to Trump and his followers. Not that the shockwaves won't continue to be felt here.

I don’t mind Trump, at first I wasn’t a fan but turns out he’s not that bad.

You either choose a wolf is sheep clothing or a cunt in a suit.

I’m choosing the suit guy. Or whatever Clive wears. A polo shirt?

My trust levels are zero. The way clot Morrison gets up and says if you have any concerns about the jab speak to your Dr. Knowing all too well that his doctors are not allowed to speak about negative aspects of the jab. Dr trust is lost, government trust is lost. I’m over it.