Interesting things too
"Anyone who at this stage sees no difference between Trump and Biden is either suffering from terminal bias or a limited capacity for rational thought.....or perhaps both. It's the old trick. Provoke an argument to create doubt where the evidence demonstrates there is none."
anyone care to comment on trump's middle east peace deal? you know the one, the one that got totally buried by media despite even critics saying it was a huge success
I'm a bit ignorant, I thought moving embassies and backing certain people and plans over others was all sorts of craziness, doesn't seem to have panned out that way
from what we've seen since, I reckon going back to the iran deal would be nuts, crazy stark fucking crazy nuts
think he is the only American president for about 100 years that didn't invade a country or start a war? called out china, Middle East peace deal, reduced Middle East troops drastically, don't ask me to defend his personality but his foreign policy record is pretty impressive. even trying to bring North Korea (and the usa has a lot to be ashamed about there if you don't know your history) back into the fold
Impossible argument. The US either plays global cop, moving on other countries when the need arises - sometimes the support is altruistic, at other times it's less so - or they cede that role to China or a resurgent Russia.
There's also more global instability now then anytime in the last 75 years.
@ Zen
I agree with your assessments Covid has really changed things.
NZ pm was most likely set to get the boot before Covid as despite international praise really she had been failing at home, but just on the back of their Covid success she deserves to be re-elected.
Before Covid Trump was doing way better than all the haters like to admit and had a decent chance of re-election but you would have to think with how he has handled Covid he would have to get the boot even if the alternatives arent great.
A lot can happen in politics before our next election but currently Covid has also put Scomo in a good position.
Just like Trump Dan Andrews should get the boot with all his FK ups next election, but i doubt that will happen, sadly there is lot's of people like Vic Local down here in Vicco.
lounge lizard,
On the middle east peace deal:
The plan designed by Trump and Kushner was a turkey that was unacceptable to all concerned. The plan that was ultimately agreed was designed by Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed (MBZ), the crown prince of the UAE in conjunction with Israel. In the longer term the plan does nothing to bring about a resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and so in all probability is nothing more than one in a long succession of “peace plans” that never quite work.
On middle east troop reductions, please refer to graph in my 10.26am post. It shows the troop reductions in both Iraq and Afghanistan occurred during Obama’s presidency.
observation of this thread over a few years has been interesting and helped crystallise some views. in pretty much every arena about 5% of people are completely fucking nuts. anti-vax, anti-fluoride, crazy religious beliefs etc. in the political arena that 5% is predominantly the extreme left wackos well represented here. not all left-wingers are nuts, a lot of labor party are just disgruntled teachers, family tradition (Beasley etc) and some genuine do-gooders(Wong, Garrett, bugs! etc). but the wacko 5% are essentially as crazy/delusional as a jihadist who really is expecting 100 virgins, and there is about as much point in engaging with them . generally harmless until they gain power (most people including the derided conservatives have less interest in controlling the lives of others). just my opinion of course
Good point blindfly.
I can't believe Netanyahu is still in power. Total crook, and a crock.
@Loungey, looks you've got it all worked out mate. Carry on.
Joe Biden : Accused rapist and racist . By his own Vice Presidential nominee no less.
Mass murderer .War monger. Started new wars in Syria , Yemen , Somalia , Libya.
Booster and promoter of illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq which led to millions of deaths . https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-ira...
Careerist politician overseeing five decades of neoliberal inequality and racial oppression. BLM pre-2017 targeted Biden.
Septuagenarian facing mental decline.
Donald Trump : Contemptuous human. Narcissist . Enabler of oligarchical plundering.
Same same. If someone tells you otherwise, they’re either stupid or a liar.
Question: Why would anyone of any sense suggest that an alternative to the two preordained political parties ( political industrial complex ) is a fallacy of absolutes ?
Answer : They wouldn’t.
The USA....put a man on the moon. Fought a civil war in their journey to lead the world in abolishing slavery. Gave the world the internet. Saved the world from the Nazis.
If you don’t think the USA is capable of reinventing itself and reforming democracy in a manner that absolves itself of this crippling two party burden, this Faustian bargain of the false dichotomy between the Republican/ Democrat MONOPOLY, then you haven’t been paying attention.
Fact-check : Deployment of troops has no relevance to military aggression. US troops are routinely deployed to Germany, Australia etc .
Germany has recently complained that the US is deploying LESS troops to its shores. Troop deployment is a economic boost to the recipient nations if the nations are at peace. As is the case for the vast majority of the 141 current recipients of US troops.
Fact-check identifies the unqualified deployment of troops as a false metric of the hawkish intent of various US Presidents.
Fake news.
Judging by 60 minutes it's going to be a big day here tomorrow :P
Any talk about who will win or not win the next election here, the US, UK or NZ, as above needs to factor in how the economy is performing. On that basis Trump is fucked, Ardern will romp it in. Too early for Boris but if he continues to mismanage everything he touches he'll be out as well. As for Scomo-tose, he might continue to sprend like there is no tomorrow but the real unemployment rate will be well over 10% next year so he might also go especially if Labor campaign at the next election on the LNP's Debt and Deficit Disaster .... what? the deficit will be over a trillion $AUD by then.
Gentlemans bet Guy- Trump is re-elected and Boris too and Jacinda will just scrape in by the skin of her quite substantial teeth. Slo-mo to get up too.
Im betting on zen's bet
the whole quadfecta
oz labor hasn't a hope in hell short of another disaster
DudeSweet said the "USA...saved the world from the Nazis". Dude, the Nazis owned the North Sea to Africa and had killed millions before the USA got involved in WW2. The Red Army destroyed Germany's best armies in Russia, the Brits and us beat their best General in the Mid- East. The USA were heroic and a big part of it but they didn't save the world. Hitler's blunders helped too.
Zen, what odds would you put on Trump wins a second term and then hands over to Ivanka who wins two terms - sixteen years of Trumps! My bet is he loses in spite of widespread voter suppression by the Republicans and Nikki Hayley is the next nominee. Boris is a goose but will win, Scomo is protected and a faux legend narrative is being crafted for him like John Howard. Labor can't win in Australia anymore, the only way would be a Greens coalition and that's never going to happen.
Anything is possible these days in politics, nothing would surprise me, but if logic or even commonsense has any relevance these days Trump should be toast. Boris truly is a idiot and the UK does vote in Labor governments. The least likely loser is Scomo-tose but let’s see what the economy looks like this time next year, personally I can’t see the LNP continuing to spend like they are currently so we could be in a very deep recession.
"If you don’t think the USA is capable of reinventing itself and reforming democracy in a manner that absolves itself of this crippling two party burden, "
...and this is happening before November? Not. Voters have to choose between Trump and Biden. Last time there was some excuse for choosing Trump over Clinton. This time there are no excuses.
Democrats got Trump elected as a direct result of Biden et al.
What has changed .....nothing.
"...and this is happening before November? Not. Voters have to choose between Trump and Biden. Last time there was some excuse for choosing Trump over Clinton. This time there are no excuses."
all sorts of delusionment goin on there, its almost a carbon copy of the last election, with an overlay of overt (but censored) media / dnc approved anarchy, ...what could possibly go wrong?
trump should be toast, scomo is a 'miracle', and boris just shouldn't have happened at all...
but here we are, a madman, a snake oil sales man, and a buffoon
and all the left has got is whinging about murdoch, still...
when will the self reflection begin?
ffs, what will it take?
Blah, blah, blah. It's still a two man choice and Trump has caused and, if elected, will continue to cause, huge numbers of unnecessary deaths. But continue to ramble on all over the political landscape if you find it amusing.
Thinking that a Dem gov. in the USA would have handled the pandemic better is again pure speculation. I know what you would like to believe but I think the reality would have been much the same. The USA is a different kettle of fish when compared to Australia or NZ and if you tried to lock down the US in the manner of say NZ, my guess is you'd be looking at many more unnecessary deaths and not from corona.
There's no question the Trump admins handling of the pandemic has been laughable but just like Viclocal tried to say that things would have been better under a Labor gov. back in Oz. I highly doubt it. The USA ain't exactly the most cohesive society- they'd just start shooting.
The same Democrats who called closing the borders racist , denied that Covid was an issue and promoted mass gatherings with potentially infected returnees from China ?
The same Democrats as responsible for causing tens of thousands of deaths by placing infected people within aged care homes ? If you subtract the massive increase in cases caused by Democrat ineptitude and anti- democratic “ resistance “ to the issuances of a sitting President, then the US figure is no worse than Europe.
Not sure why anyone finds hope in 50 years of Biden’s corruption and incompetence given rein for another 4 years ?
“ Never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck up “ .....Barrack Obama
“ Joe Biden is guilty of sexual assault and racism “ .....Kamala Harris
“ Saddam Hussein's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, in my view, is one of those clear dangers. Even if the right response to his pursuit is not so crystal clear, one thing is clear. These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam Hussein, or Saddam Hussein must be dislodged from power.”....Joe Biden
“ Joe Biden won’t fuck up like the racist , sex predator Trump “ .....Blowfly.
If BLM can change the centuries old narrative of US society with regards to overt racism within 2 months then a transformative change of the failed US political inducing be brought about in the same time frame.
Trump may be a disgrace but Joe Biden is the USA’s John Howard.
DSDS: You've got to evaluate your source mate.
“ Joe Biden is guilty of sexual assault and racism “ Kamala Harris
This drivel came from a viral meme and has no basis in fact.
Stop making shit up.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/harris-hasnt-called-biden-a-racist-or-...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/20/fact-check-harr...
"Trump may be a disgrace but Joe Biden is the USA’s John Howard."
that's a bit harsh, john howard 'got stuff done'
...and was clear about his agenda...
biden's a hiding, ....everything!
biding hiding basement biden
its a flawed strategy, just ask bill
shorten
“ Never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck up “ .....Barrack Obama
You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. All that has happened is highly partisan conservative media are saying an unknown democrat claims Obama said this.
Like I said, you need to evaluate your sources.
...there's a tape isn't there?
but ds should check his sources...
I think it was actually.... "don't underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck this up “
actually...
"Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up.”
https://jacobinmag.com/2020/08/joe-biden-donald-trump-polls-dnc-convention
"You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. All that has happened is highly partisan conservative media are saying an unknown democrat claims Obama said this."
yeh, only highly partisan conservative media
Don’t think Shorten would have been heavily supportive of the illegal invasion of Iraq , unlike Biden. I could be wrong.
There appears to be a conspiracy theory surrounding the use of mail in ballots and allegations that Trump is proactively disabling this service in an anti democratic fashion.
The head of the US coronavirus response , Dr Fauci , has repeatedly stated that the science reveals no threat posed by in person voting and zero reasons why this would be required at all beyond any normal circumstance.https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/fauci-says-he-plans-to-vot...
50 seconds onward. Kamala Harris stating she believes the women accusing Joe Biden of sexual assault. She applauds their courage for coming forward and calling out such a powerful sexual predator.
https://www.facebook.com/TND/videos/1560366610762254/?v=1560366610762254
Listening at the 50 second mark, she didn't say that.
sypkan, did you even read that Jacobin link you posted? It doesn't prove Obama said that about Biden at all.
All it says is that some other media organisation reported that an unnamed Democrat said Obama allegedly said something about Biden. No names, no proof.
Have you ever questioned the source of information that you so desperately want to be true?
You just embarrassed yourself again.
Oh and DSDS, you just made that up about Harris. you're embarrassing yourself too.
Caution: what simba posted above might be traumatic for some to watch.
If you don't want to watch, it was a cop shooting someone seven times at point blank range. Of course the country was the USA.
Patrick, Good call. It's amazing how some people slur someone's character and then put up a link that doesn't back up their statement at all. They either a) hope we don't click the link or b) don't actually click the link themselves.
It makes them look rather foolish.
Here's an example. Scumo is caught on camera at a brothel while in Hawaii. Here's the proof.
mate, do you think jacobin would have even gone there if they thought it wasn't a reliable source?
keep dreaming
Im not getting into a back and forth, because one just has to look at joe to think...
'don't underestimate joe's ability to fuck things up'
have you read any of his record? read the other stuff obama said? the guys a rambling old has been, with a damning 40 year record
context mate, i know you dont do context, but give it a shot...
Seriously sypkan,
You're too stupid to know the difference between Obama saying "Don't underestimate the ability of Biden to fuck it up", and Jacobin reporting that another media organisation is reporting that an un-named democrat claims Obama said "Don't underestimate the ability of Biden to fuck it up".
You just believe anything that suits your agenda no matter what.
such people skills
you must be in hospitality
lay off the stupid brains
you're like a tony abbott attack dog, vehemently attacking the one bit of the argument you understand, but unable to hold two ideas in your head at the same time
Ha ha ha
Assertion, bullshit, nonsense, distortion, lies, distractions. They insist that they're not bots but they do a pretty fine impression. You would hope that someone at the secret Republican bunker under Trump Tower is throwing them a few crumbs for their work in assisting the spread of their propaganda... ..but nah, actually they are useless. After years of this tedious crap the only person they seem to have persuaded is zen.
Here's the deal sypkan, you back up your arguments with facts, and you don't get criticised. You make up shit - you get called out for it. And when you try to bluff your way out of it, I will call you stupid.
here's the deal brains, if jacobin is reporting it, I'm believing it
you two are like children, blocking your eyes and ears, harder and harder everyday, just wishing it will all go away
wish harder little ones
honestly, you two are not well
...and who the fuck do you think you've persuaded of anything?
your whole narrative is proven false day after day
for year after year
you are the epitomy of fake news
Ha ha! By you? What a joke. Assertion, bullshit, lies, nonsense ad infinitum. Evidence? Not a shred. Logic? Whee hoo off to the bottom of the garden with the fairies.
you've go to be kidding
the guy that pushed the russia conspiracy for years only to be caught out big time, then you go right on back there
time after time
this really is parallel universe shit
...not well
"here's the deal brains, if jacobin is reporting it, I'm believing it"
You are such a moron sypkan. Jacobin is just reporting that another media organisation is reporting an unnamed source's quote. Read it again shit for brains.
Fuck you are slow.
people skills...
that's not the point one track
you really don't understsnd how this works?
you should, you and blindboy are always pushing exactly what you accuse me of
for four fucking years!!!
bloody unbelievable
Take a break slyppery. Your brain must be hurting by now.
For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.