Interesting stuff

Morrison's doing a good job so far. Id rather have him in charge of this plague than anyone else. The students have to go through quarantine as well but I still don't see why they cant do it online till its sorted. Iran's in deep poo as well. Looks like everyone including aggressors will be busy with their own problems for a while and have no time for invading other peoples personal space.

Blowin started the topic in Wax Off
Friday, 21 Jun 2019 at 8:01am

Talking points worthy of further discussion without devolving into insult.

Blowin, wouldn’t be just easier for you to accept the world is generally a very stupid illogical place

Not sure if this was shared but a great take on it..

You’re Likely to Get the Coronavirus

Was looking at that Jacobin article last night - excellent summation.
Fuckers are totally lost.
Or maybe just totally under the thumb just as likely.

I agree with blowin, there has been an active campaign to cut down, and discredit the good points of western civilization - or at least there appears to be - not sure about the conspiracy part, it's more a collusion from my point of view, as various useful idiots have found a shallow symbiosis in relationships, across the political spectrum

unchallenged for far too long I would say!

I don't think stan grant is saying aussies are racist for not eating chinese, he's pointing out people are currently scared, and behaving as such. but he is saying australia has a very racist past, both to the chinese and aboriginals, and that you still don't have to scratch the surface too much in oz, for the ugly side of that racism to rise again. which is a fair assessment I reckon. amongst a now minority of australians, that ugly racism is still there, itching...

tbh, when stan grant went a bit far, he had me totally cringing. as soon as anything sounds like 'white guilt' these days, I just switch off, I think this narrative has fair points, good points, essential points, but they are always explored in total isolation, no context, no big picture thinking. and it seems we've been there done that, ...been there overdone that ...totally

it now just seems from a different time, ...from a different generation, ...someone elses' 'issues'... (sorry)

I think the very simple, noble concept of identity politics has been so overdone, so so over thought, it has become totally counterproductive, not least because the billionaires have harnessed it, and corrupted it, for their political agendas. but more-so (trigger warning) because it has been fetishised and worshiped by sections of society who just aren't that bright ...arts students, media commentators, HR, and actors...

basically; media, hollywood, and it's wannabes; and a whole bunch of over-educated, under-employed, fashionable, gender studies groupies and the like (arts students), who possess too much time to be outraged on the internet, and not enough real work not to bother...

conversely, there's a bunch of half employed, too much time, not that bright, gamer/net nerd/wannabe startup/tech guru company/gig economy//alt. right types more than willing to accomodate and outrage them...

both of these groups are as bad as each other. both just as lost, angry, and outraged. both just as divisive and counterproductive (actually the alt. right dudes served a purpose for a while, as did the feminazis) but both are now noisy nobodies in the bigger political debate...

Identity politics, as it's developed, is a funny thing, where one of the unwritten rules that the general public are supposed to pick up on, through osmosis, is that only someone from the minority/minorities may talk for, or about, the minority, and watch out if you're not!

we see this in their literature, where it's always;

"as a gay person, I think...", or;
"as a person of colour...";
"as a lesbian...";
"as a feminist...";
"as a part of a minority...";
etc. etc.

hence blowin's little outrage moment above

....fair outrage I say, because the no platformers have only allowed certain gay voices to be heard - not all voices - same with black people, women, aboriginals, lesbians, etc. only the 'right' voices are listened to...

...whilst also allowing these assigned people, these certain minorities, the most vicious criticisms of anything white, male, western and straight...

all this while the good inclusive white guy, working his arse of for his family, must just remain silent, ...totally silent! ...always!

I go into all this because, this thinking is what allowed stan grant his unique position to criticise the CCP guy the other night. stan really layed into him, really let him have it, whilst managing to keep it jovial and polite. stan knew his shit, has experience in china, and history with CCP man, but it was actually his blackfella-ness that allowed him that voice to 'speak truth to power'

....and thank fuck for that!

a white guy in the same position? ...no chance...

Imagine if joe hildebrand, or even the abc's favourite token (remnant) white guy confronted CCP man like that... the outrage industry would have gone full bunta. outraged in overdrive, even if the exact same tone and words were used, the white guy just cant say that stuff...

It's a curious little corner the left of politics have backed themselves into, where even their brown, beige and feminine idols cannot maintain the levels of puritanical that is required. yet they expect average joe to know and understand the latest fetish and it's associated unwritten rules. aside from being a really ridiculous position to hold, this place has left the left without the tools required to critic and manage the modern problems of the world. as they obsess over their petty greviances that are getting flattened and obliterated by snowballs running away from us down a hill....

vj's wormcan is a factor, but I honestly think all the overlords have lost control of this rogue beast

And if trade shuts down people will die also.

I take it you've heard of the already limited medicines, many of them life-saving, coming out of China? You talk about the intimacy of death, so what if it's your family member that relies on medicine to live?

Wise and considered thinking needs to apply weighing historical cases against forseeable danger.

What are some of the Chinese virus symptoms again?

High anxiety? General breathlessness? Hot sweats? Vision impairment? Sleeplessness? Fevered ranting and raving? Hypomania? Brain dysfunction?

Blowin its obvious contain now is to the slow the spread not to eliminate the spread which clearly ain't gonna work.

If they can slow the contagion down then our health services will still be overwhelmed but should cope to some extent.

Time to start talking about how to care for the infection and make preparations.

*This post says nothing but gets the C-bomb from the preceding post off the homepage.*

As you were, gents.

As Optimist, who also copped some infected spray, said above, isn't this thread loftily subtitled "talking points worthy of further discussion without devolving into insult"? I guess it depends who's doing the insulting and how it manifests itself?

Anyway, another thought, latest expert opinion is that somewhere between 40% and 70% of the world's population are going to get the Chinese virus, and taking only the smaller amount of 40%, 3.3% of those people may die.

By my calculations, 40% of the current would population is 3,117,919,495 people, and 3.3% of that number is 102,891,343.

Now, I'm sure there are some of us on here that have been very, very concerned in the past about over-population.

Well...?

pretty funny interview on abc yrsterday as the announcer interviewed some french politician about the outbreak in europe

his answer to every question was about the death of globalisation; the death of it's supply chain model; death to dependece on on other countries; ...globalisation death; death; death; generally...

whilst the anouncer desperately tried to keep the globalisation agenda on track...

was quite hilarious actually

So globalization is on the nose, so much so that I'm gonna revert to the Aussie way of spelling it - globalisation.

S not Z, mu'fa's.

We've caught a whiff of Rex Connor-style Economic Nationalism and it's great.

Give me men to match my mountains,
Give me men to match my plains,
Men with freedom in their visions
And creation in their veins.

But who in their right mind can say that unravelling thirty years of economic artifice, interconnections linking every element of society and that curently know no border, and creating a new political and economic environment can be done without any pain?

In fact, can be done without a LOT of pain.

If we want independence then we'll have to cop some heat, accept financial setbacks in the short term, higher prices, same with interest rates, less access to goods and to debt, less holidays to Bali, maybe a recession or two, lose your job, maybe your house.

Yet when I stop to smell the roses I don't see a society prepared to act more humbly, to self-sacrifice, settle for less for the greater good etc, but one rushing ever faster towards materialism, wanting more for less, and with a worrying bent towards individualism and its bastard spawn, Libertarianism.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Not you, Blowin, you always do. Someone else this time.

“If we want independence then we'll have to cop some heat, accept financial setbacks in the short term, higher prices, same with interest rates, less access to goods and to debt, less holidays to Bali, maybe a recession or two, lose your job, maybe your house.”

I think you forgot to mention the wars we will have to accept as well.

Add to your list Stu Australia runs on foreign capital (you do sort of allude to this) cut that off and you would have unemployment armageddon........

I actually make a point of spelling color colour too, but hey read into that what you will...

a winding back?

'it won't happen overnight, but it will happen'

I agree totally though, people are too locked in. oz is too locked in, we all are too locked in, and we all fucking know it!, which just heavies the burden

radical change is way off

but where I disagree is people are ready for sacrafice. people have had enough of lies and deceit, the utter bullshit, the artificial suspension of everything it seems. they are ready for a change, ready for a reckoning, a correction. whatever that entails. more and more people by the day it seems

the degree, and what they are ready for, is wide and varied, but they are asking questions, which shows they are either ready, or know it's coming anyway...

caronavirus is just the tip if the iceberg, it's the steaming pile of shit under it that people want to talk about, and have wanted to for some time

...and if a situation like coronavirus doesn't make you want to ask questions, well, ...I've got nothing...

A "correction" is a great word. It must be time for us to look at being a self sufficient nation again like we once were. Happy trading and manufacturing again within our own borders. Hopefully the Politicians will see it as an opportunity and stop staring into the distance across the sea. Lifestyle beats money any day and we can build a good one if we try.

“Lifestyle beats money any day and we can build a good one if we try.”

I might be naive but this is something I’ve always believed in, and obviously this change in mindset is essential in the long term, from an environmental and also a social point of view.

“Yet when I stop to smell the roses I don't see a society prepared to act more humbly, to self-sacrifice, settle for less for the greater good etc, but one rushing ever faster towards materialism, wanting more for less, and with a worrying bent towards individualism and its bastard spawn, Libertarianism.

Tell me I'm wrong.“

I don’t think you’re wrong Stu, and so we go around again into conversations about basic leadership, politics, corporations, media etc etc, the conversations we’ve all been having for years if not decades.
To no real avail.

Typical.

Finally get into a position to become materialistic and then somebody wants to take it all away.

I've worked years to become this shallow.

Not on the agenda Blowin.

Though it’ll be interesting to see how Sanders goes.

"Australia just needs a leader. Someone to redirect the national consciousness through oratory and force of will."

Nah, we're far more polarised than Hawke's era.

Sure, we haven't had a great leader for a long while, but c'mon, the people also have to suck some lemons when it comes to "no viable path". What about the Mining Tax? In no time in recent history has there been a policy more geared to furthering Australia's public wealth. A line in the sand, small though it was, that said 'these our our resources and all Australians should be properly recompensed for their removal'. It was a laydown misere.

And what happened? Abbott and Credlin, enabled by Murdoch and Sky and the RWNJs, vehemently tore it down, proud in the kill, bayed on by a constituency sold on the lies, they gave Rudd and Swan the same treatment they'd give to any leader now or in the future.

So let's not kid ourselves and think 'the people' will automatically obey. The people, remember, are why we're in this position. You know, democracy.

And remember too, the Mining Tax is but an inkling of what we're proposing - i.e a systematic political disruption.

Seeing Gina on the back of a truck stressing she might have to pay some tax just broke my heart worrying about her.........

That's pretty funny Zen but true sums me up to some extent.

Australia, for the last 71 years, has voted federal Liberal governments into office, more often than not.

The two longest serving PMs in Australian history are Menzies and Howard.

Anyway, wasn't the Morrison election our 'Trump' moment? I'm sure I read or heard that somewhere.

Oh, and for all you revolting types, another vital and powerful force in Australian public and political life to consider has been the Murdoch family of course, now heading into a third generation.

And with Fairfax now owned by the Nine network, and the very real possibility of the ABC and SBS being privatised, I guess it'll be even harder for all your revolutionary prayers to be answered, yes?

Then again, Trump was a reality TV performer. Maybe there is a way?

The only way we will get a leader/brand of politics that everyone seems to be wanting is after a period of cleaning out the current crop corrupt and/or incompetent politicians and the only chance of that happening is with a fully armed and resourced Federal ICAC given all required powers to investigate the political corruption witnessed over the last decade. Let's face it, currently there is little chance of that happening anytime soon because the majority of the LNP front bench would be dragged before it. Common guys, relax in the knowledge we're fucked.

Draining the swamp you might say 'eh Guy?

Wasn't a federal ICAC as a policy position taken to the last federal election, Guy, and roundly rejected? Australians don't want it or think it's that important??

"Yet when I stop to smell the roses I don't see a society prepared to act more humbly, to self-sacrifice, settle for less for the greater good etc, but one rushing ever faster towards materialism, wanting more for less, and with a worrying bent towards individualism and its bastard spawn, Libertarianism.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Not you, Blowin, you always do. Someone else this time."

I don't get the hate for libertarianism, it's practically irrelevant; regarded by no-one powerful in government, its ideas just whispers in the background of the booming flow of keynesianism that powers today's world. (It does tend to act as a form of Swellnet Kryptonite however, so I guess it has its uses...) Name a single libertarian leader, PM, treasurer (maybe an ALP treasurer about 10 years ago in QLD??). Where do you find libertarians; their sites are more obscure than modelmaking sites? (Hint: the Von Mises Institute).

In retort, the materialism, the easy gains and imported Balinese garden companies, are finished. A lack of materialism is about to be enforced, not chosen, in a most disastrous way. My father, after growing up in wartime and postwar Scotland and England, nearly had tears in his eyes seeing his grandkids choosing lollies in Port Fairy's sweet shop. Why was he so emotional? The shelves had sweets all the way up, to the roof. They weren't bare. Perhaps his was the last generation in the West that didn't know plenty, and it made them frugal, modest, and humble people. "Never show your wealth."

Tides and cycles ebb and flow. 1900 points lost on the Dow in the last 2 days reveal that man's confidence in his creations just stuttered. (It's funny how puts may be best bought when one has little need for them and has little thought toward them having a day in the sun.) If anything is surprising, it's that the rally lasted so long and got so high. There is an unsettling promise with this turn of events however, a creeping suspicion is developing in the face of shock after shock in the newstreams. The last great phase of globalisation was washed away in the catastrophe of July and August, 1914, where a terrible chain of errors of statesmanship and obligations of alliance produced the end of an era. Will the shutdown of the web of trade be the event that knackers us? 20,000+ planes in the air each day is ridiculous, though, and that could stop.

So I kind of agree with you Stu, with the caveat that people may not have the choice of whether they get to be materialists as much in future.

"If we want independence then we'll have to cop some heat, accept financial setbacks in the short term, higher prices, same with interest rates, less access to goods and to debt, less holidays to Bali, maybe a recession or two, lose your job, maybe your house."

...sounds a lot like the old Queensland farming communities and their close knit - and communal - bonds, self sacrifice, that got them through stuff like the Depression. That too, might have been enforced by the circumstance.

Lastly, I am on the LSDP for a super-rare condition. (Not fun). I'm on the firing line for this one. All those supply chains I see on fire, that affects me. Levels of complexity taken from society, that affects me too. All I can say is thank you to you all, of all opinions, for your help. It's been a wonderful opportunity to live this long, there is much to learn in a lifetime and I think this particular lifetime has taught me much about fear. There have been events and close shaves where it's nearly all over; and recovery; and will-to-live. There have been terrifying moments when you realise this might be it, and yep, there's been faith and a spiritual understanding and amazement like when the upper chakras open. Somehow, I've managed to be able to keep surfing (one in a million stuff all of it) - for all of it I'm thankful. We were a long way out in the size that's been around here this week, taking bumpy onshore drops and I got to watch my young one drop in to some size. Everything was perfect; the light, the colour, the moment. Appreciate life, I wish you all well.

Am I interpreting this right?

VJ, i sincerely hope you're around for a long time. I'm kinda shocked.

We've never met but i reckon i'd like you in person.

indeed

...best libertarian on the internet...)

...hoping all is not as bleak as it seems vj

That was a good read VJ hope the pulse beats for a bit longer yet.

Here's to many more perfect moments, VJ. Kia manawanui!

Shit VJ, mate hope you're around for many more years to come. Thinking of you and your family.

Just now recalling an email you sent me a while ago, VJ, and rereading it sat me on my arse.

There're many different ways to respond to what's happening, but going on what you wrote five years ago and what's written above you're approaching it in the manner others can only aspire to. Bravery? Dignity? Fuck, I don't know if those qualities apply or if they're just platitudes, but you're clear-eyed about it and I imagine that helps where it matters most: at home.

Good luck.

PS: Now's probably not the right time to unleash my 10,000 word treatise on the scourge of Libertarianism. Some other time, eh?