Interesting stuff

We get it blowin you don't like China.
Let's break down the the idiocy of our government buying a bunch of commercial TV programs to screen into the Pacific. They could have just used ABC programming for free, but the LNP have been undermining the ABC for decades. The Pacific nations, starved of ABC news, just changed channel to Chinese news.
So the LNP pissed away $17.1 million to buy Masterchef, The Voice and Border Security. What was the benefit to The Australian taxpayer? None.
This isn't the first, or the last time, the LNP have propped up commercial media organisations with tax payer dollars. It's a shit state of affairs, but my question to you blowin is, "where the fuck was your hero Hanson on this matter?"
She was joining in the ABC bashing and defunding.
You bitch and moan about the federal government, but the vast majority of their shitty decisions are clapped and cheered by the red-headed grifter.
Hanson is essentially Smoko who doesn't use a dog whistle and is an out and proud racist. And that's enough to stop you from criticising the racist grifter.

One Minneapolis cop charged with murder, 3 others to go. Meanwhile the city burns

Well thats a bit of good news, so sad to see the riots though but inevitable.

IMHO if Trump was smart he would have made a clear statement as soon as saw the footage and said please remain peaceful and that he will personally ensure justice is served and they are locked up for a very long time and made an example off, even call for the death penalty even if not possible in that state.

I mean he says anything he likes anyway even if he might or might not be able to ensure this happens, would have been smart move as doubt it would lose many voters but would have gained some voters especial African Americans.

@Vic Local

I dont get how people like you are surprised or whinge about LNP defunding the ABC, some programs and presenters and generally attitude is so anti LNP, imagine if you were funding someone that is against you?

I love the ABC TV and Radio in that i hate adds and like docco and lifestyle type stuff, but if i was in government id either ensure somehow there is some political/social reporting balance or just defund them all together.

I mean the ABC even got banned by the Nauru government from the Pacific Island forum a few years back because of their spreading of disinformation, how crazy is that the Aussie government works with Nauru and fund development there but at the same time the media the Aussie government funds got banned. (and i beleive no other media got banned)

I understand the demonstrating and to a degree the rioting. I've never understood the looting or destruction of property.

I suppose you can't have a riot without destroying something.

"I suppose you can't have a riot without destroying something."

I guess its just letting out anger.

The sad thing is when business get trashed and looted is that its innocent peoples business and they end up suffering.

My wife father actually took part in the riots and looting in central Java during the riots in the 90s, he isn't a bad man, but i guess just younger and they were quite poor at the time, so when chaos went down the temptation of getting some things they couldn't otherwise afford took hold.

Indo, the ABC is generally very balanced in its reporting. They are required to be in their charter. There's a very good reason why the ABC consistently rates as the most trusted news source in Australia.

The problem stems from the fact that a huge proportion (I forget exactly, but around 60%) is owned by one man - Rupert Murdoch - who likes to use his media assets to push his political views (see Fox News in the US, Sky News here, The Australian, election coverage by his newspapers of the 2019 election and particularly the 2013 election).

Against that backdrop, where the majority of the media sings like a choir for one side of politics and smears and attacks the other - balance starts to look like bias.

As I've said, the ABC is required to be balanced in its charter. If coalition MP's could reliably demonstrate this they could force change and/or consequences upon the ABC. They actually can't demonstrate this, nor do they want to, it is far more valuable to them to continually smear and demean the ABC for their political benefit and to the benefit of their donors.

The current situation in the US is tragic but entirely unremarkable when you consider how State powers to legislate over most things that effect the daily lives of Americans are considered sacrosanct, it takes a brave President to override a State Governor. From taxes, policing, education, medical and hospital care, roads .... it's the States that hold the power to run things and that power is closely held and protected.

Funding for police varies from State to State (based on State tax receipts which also vary wildly) as does the numbers and importantly the training. There is no nation wide standards because (only in America) that would be considered socialist or worse communist. So the training the police at the centre of this current fiasco received would be probably very different from other States. It adds to making America a very dangerous place.

This devolution of most powers to the States means there are no fixes it will just continue, distrust for the Federal government runs deep, since the days of the constitution, and is always trotted out when Federal gun control is discussed - we need to be armed to defend ourselves against the government (FFS). It's ingrained in American thinking and it certainly isn't helped by the last two plus decades of hard partisan politics. There's votes to be had in chaos, fear is good now buy another fully automatic machine gun to protect your family and property boy.

In a week or so all of this will be forgotten except for the family and friends until the next one, over 1,000 Americans are shot dead by police each year.

Looting? with the minimum wage for most below $10 a hour, go figure.

America, the land of the free, is fucked. Just thank fate you don't live there.

As a side note, I like to refer to the US as the US, because, from Canada to Argentina, there are a lot of other countries in America.

edit - following from what Guy said, the country probably needs a name change as the states don't sound too united.

It really is in a shocking state Guy, I despise the government in this country but I am thankful everyday that I'm not a US citizen - that place is crazy.

I've always wondered how the gumnuts in the US who believe they need their automatic rifles to defend themselves against the government plan to defend against a drone strike, given how the US military likes its drones. Because lets face it, if they are faced with an armed standoff they are unlikely to persist with person to person armed combat for very long and when/if that is unsuccessful, they aren't just going to throw the towel in...

What's their plan of action for a guided missile, armoured vehicle assault, helicopter gunship, long range artillery fire?

Not a lot of thought going on I reckon.

This person does look suspiciously like an agent provocateur. Scroll down for the video.

https://www.ajc.com/news/police-deny-link-mysterious-umbrella-man-who-br...

Whoa, here's the video.

Wanker - "If you follow me I'm going to fight you right now"
Pizza guy - "Oh you wanna go? Somebody hold my blunt."
Haha, classic.

So a person turns up in a carefully chosen outfit that hides identifying body features... gloves, boots, beanie, covered head to toe in nondescript black, mask (though he left the pink caps on for a touch of flair), and then doesn't want to be followed by his fellow protestors. Obvious conclusion... the dude's motive is to incite chaos.

the umbrella was a nice touch, emanates all kinds of crazy...

that dudes full tilt corona crazy

many loopy opportunists amongst the mayhem, so dangerous

@Patrick, your 946 comment, you are correct I've even had the same conversation with Stu, people in the Americas hate being lumped in with North Americans.

To add to my 940 comment I would say we have it pretty good here in AU but that's not to say we don't need to be vigilant against further moves to privatise or devolve responsibilities (out sourcing) current government functions at state and federal level. Covid19 should have shown all of us how good Medicare/our health is and the recent bushfires how vital the ABC is and or education system for all its faults betters most other countries. Personally, Im hoping for a shift from the right of politics, less about privatisation and more about gee we have a good system so let's protect it.

Calls to defund the ABC are a larf, are they not?

The most recent sortie from the LNP stems from Emma Alberici's articles about tax dodging by big corporations, and another about the repeated failure of trickle down economics, that one written in the face of the LNPs staged corporate tax cuts.

Most of the complaints arose from blurbs and teasers to the story - which weren't written by Alberici - not being representative of the whole story.

The complainants, who included then-PM Turnbull, Alan Joyce, and other top end of town folk condemned the pieces as 'anti-business'.

Stop and smell the fucken roses, people.

If the detail was wrong, the guts of it was proven right by excecutives and shareholders pocketing the first tranche of cuts - exactly as predicted by everyone, except for the top end of town folk - and the tax dodging is a chronic, systematic scam enabled by repeated cabinets and finally getting exposed by international investigations such as the Panama Papers and locallly through the work of Michael West.

We're all being taken for a ride and the government is using its muscle to shut down dissenting voices.

ABC Medical Journalist Dr Norman May ooops I mean Swan (late edit thanks boatie) outstanding during Covid19, weeks ahead of the government, even he ruffled feathers for not towing the government line. Dr May proven 100% correct in what he was saying early on.

"Gold, gold, gold for Australia"

That’s gold boatie, bahaha, what a cock up, bahaha, I’ll humbly edit now! So funny,

sorry Guy, I couldn't resist :)
spot on about Norman Swan, I've enjoyed his insightful commentary on the Covid experience

Agree with the sentiments about defunding the ABC. I think that some in the coalition struggle with being held to account which is why they cry foul on the ABC all the time. Labor got just as much stick but I guess they’re not in power enough for anyone to notice. ABC never went soft on them over the pink bats the asylum seeker increase, and it was a virtual minute by minute commentary over Gillard and Rudd.

Got to admit though Philip Adams is definitely not unbiased and he unabashedly despises and ridicules the conservatives and neo liberals and takes every chance he can to stick the boot in. So to its credit ABC put on Amanda Vanstone in his time slot first day of the week, even called the program ‘Counterpoint’ as a nod to his bias.

She’s no fan of Norman Swan either

Media bias fact check rate ABC Australia as Left Centre

"These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias* . They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Left-Center sources."

"Overall, we rate ABC News Australia, Left-Center Biased based on story selection that moderately favors the Left and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and being a certified fact checker."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/abc-news-australia/

*Obviously Liberal in the Worldwide meaning of the word.

If you take a balanced view you can totally understand why a liberal government is more likely to defund the ABC than a Labor government, remember this isn't a private business this is suppose to be for the people funded by the government.

I love the ABC i don't like adds or endless music and like news and doccos etc but id really like to see some more balance.

So when do you know when you have hit centre?

When you get just as much whinging from both the left and right that they are bias, currently most of it comes from the right far and moderate.

I mean can anyone name someone on the ABC that is even truely right wing?...even the Panel a very left leaning show has Steve price for some balance.

Even a study done years ago found

"MORE than 40 per cent of ABC journalists who answered a survey question about their political attitudes are Greens supporters, four times the support the minor party enjoys in the wider population."

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/its-easy-being-green-a...

I mean it's obviously completely ridiculous to fact check bias on yourself but even when ABC did they really didn't sound that convincing https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-13/fact-check3a-abc-greens-voters/99...

Amanda Vanstone was a minister in John Howards government and Tom Switzer I’d say is on the conservative agenda.

ABC probably is moderately left but I’d say they also tend to jump on a lot of causes and rights issues that don’t get always get much of an an airing in the commercial world. They pushed the gay marriage agenda ad nauseam however they always gave the opportunity for both sides of the debate. Barnarby got plenty of interviews over the issue. I’ve heard plenty of interviews with Coalition members over the years but they are actually challenged on what they say (as are Labor ministers) which apparently doesn't happen with the shock jocks and Sky, etc.

Politics isn’t the ABCs only contribution to Australia and that often gets lost in the debate. Look at the information and service they gave during the bushfires and now with Corona. The commercial stations community service pales into insignificance when compared to ABC. Then there is the media and entertainment industry development they provide and the ability for non commercial parts of the community to have a voice. Should be considered as a vital service and deserve to be funded accordingly.

Freedom of speech and freedom of press is paramount in maintaining a democratic sophisticated society!No if buts or whats!!

Accept anything less is detrimental to our future.

The media is the only way to keep the politicians accountable.
The A.B.C should receive more funding!
Unfortunate it competes with the Murdoch empire????

As socialists/communists, Guy and others here hate the US and Murdoch with a passion, so whatever criticisms they make are tainted. Did they say 'America is fucked' when the Aussie woman was shot dead by a black cop, when the Aussie baseballer going for a jog was shot dead by blacks in a drive-by shooting and when the white female judge was shot by a black man she'd jailed, on his release (just to name a few)? Did they say 'France is fucked' when the riots occurred there last year against the socialist Macron govt's plan to introduce a fuel tax? Did they say 'China is fucked' when the Hong Kong riots were taking place? Shows what type of hypocritical losers they are.

Does anyone understand what point the fella above is trying to make?

Yeah Patrick I saw that too and thought same thing . Also saw pics of a couple of others one had ear piece cord hanging under beanie and umbrella in side pocket of backpack . Pretty hefty mask too . Yep agent provocateurs have been around stirring up shit for years so It makes sense especially with all that’s happening.

'America is fucked’

'France is fucked’

'China is fucked’

And it's Murdochs fault?

I listen to ABC radio most days at work, gotten to a stage where we turn over to commercial crapola during some segments though. Certain hosts just push their agenda and if your a gay, feminist, lefty, testicle kicker I,m sure you would be hanging right in there. Not sure who they think is listening to their shows but tradies stuck with am must account for a fair wedge of their listeners during the day and they dont understand that. Upper middle class hosts banging on about their lifestyle in the affluent western (WA) suburbs and what holiday plans for the year they have while heaps people are out of or losing work is ludicrous and out of touch. Admit I enjoy Counterpoint with Amanda Vandstone, Richard Fidlers Conversations, breakfast is well balanced and drive but jeeze the primetime mid morn and afternoons are fucked, podcasts and commercial radio winning there. Public servant lifers , dont even start with Pillock Adams faaark

You can always rely on The Australian for an objective opinion on the ABC can't you Indo.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-13/fact-check3a-abc-greens-voters/99...

I assume it was this one, y'know by the IPA guy, the guy who'd just written a book about shutting down public broadcasting.

'Upon releasing the findings in 2013, the author of the study himself, Folker Hanusch, inserted numerous caveats about using sub-samples of the survey, including that the margins of error would be larger than those for the total sample. Professor Davidson neglected to include any of these important caveats in making his claim.'

An honest omission I'm sure.

It's interesting - as I suspected, when you read the actual text of the study that the IPA guy was deliberately misrepresenting for his ideological purposes - you find the conclusion of the study was:

'Journalists were asked a number of questions about their backgrounds, and the results suggest that, over the past 20 years, some important changes have occurred in what constitutes the typical Australian journalist. Journalists are now considerably older much more likely to be female, far better educated, arguable more left-leaning and they have more experience than during the early 1990s.'

The ABC is not unique in this, journalists are - on average - more left leaning than your average Australian. Guess what, as journalists are human, they have opinions, their biases are going to show through every now and then. The ABC does a pretty good job at moderating this, but again, humans. If they were really badly biased, they wouldn't be on of the most trusted media sources.

https://tvtonight.com.au/2019/08/abc-by-far-still-most-trusted-media-com...

@mikehunt207

100% i totally agree with that assessment, sounds very similar to here in Victoria.

ABC radio in mornings is actually quite well balanced, i honestly think Virginia Trioli really tries to provide balance i think she is much better than Jon faine who often let his own bias and opinions come through very clearly on some topics.

Straight after lunch is a bit of mix and more light hearted

But in the afternoons with Raf Epstein is the total opposite, he is super bias, i usually have to finish work early and pick my daughter up from school but what i do hear, I'm like WTF???

The subject matter overall is often still agenda driven, but for the most part i can handle that aspect.

ABC TV i dont watch a whole lot but what i do when it comes to politics and social issues is a mix of balance and then some shows that often terrible bias, the Drum, 4 Corners etc

@ JQ

Im sure im not going to convince or agree with you, and if you look above i posted the same ABC link fact checking itself.

I mean seriously a fact check on yourself about bias, it's a ridiculous concept in itself.

The facts remain of those that responded they came up with

"MORE than 40 per cent of ABC journalists who answered a survey question about their political attitudes are Greens supporters, four times the support the minor party enjoys in the wider population."

BTW. In regard to the Australian it came up as the same level of bias to the right as the ABC do to the left https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-australian/

(im sure others here wont agree) But IMHO the Irony with the whole Murdoh thing is yes although some of their publications are very bias to the right IMHO possibly the most balanced news paper in regard to variety of views from let to right is the Herald Sun, i dont buy it myself but i often read it when at the Bakery or Maccas etc and you can flick from one page and have a view from Andrew Bolt then on the very next page a view that is the total opposite on the same issue from some left leaning journalist, then comments from readers etc are also reflected in this manner.

IMHO it's because its aimed at everyday mainstream public, so commercially it needs to cover all views otherwise it wont get bought, while other news outlets like the Guardian or Australian are aimed at a moderate left or right readership, they tell people what they want to hear.

Hey Indo, when the author of the study that was used to make the claim you have posted said:

'Upon releasing the findings in 2013, the author of the study himself, Folker Hanusch, inserted numerous caveats about using sub-samples of the survey, including that the margins of error would be larger than those for the total sample. Professor Davidson neglected to include any of these important caveats in making his claim.'

What do you think he meant? Do you think his statement supports the premise you have posted?

And the fact remains that the ABC is considered one of the most trusted media sources in Australia.

There are 3 major new organisations in Australia.
News Corp chaired by Rupert Murdoch.
Nine/Fairfax chaired by Peter Costello.
And the ABC, clearly the problem.

The entire premise misrepresented by the IPA stooge was based on 34 ABC journalists.

34 People. The ABC employs over 1000 journalists and over 5000 people generally. 34 People is a minuscule proportion.

Id love to know the results of all 1,0000 journalist and all 5000 employees, ideally we should have a 50/50 mix it should be part of the requirement of the ABC.

The survey can only be based on those that responded and it's the best we have so far.

Either way nobody can deny the ABC is left leaning and not balanced and the aim should be to somehow rectify this, if its cant be rectified then privatise the ABC because its currently not a representation of the views of wider community.

Then why is it the most trusted media source in Australia Indo. Why should the MOST TRUSTED media source in Australia be fiddled with.

That survey is the best we have Indo, but the guy who wrote the entire study said it should not be used in the way it has been used. He did that for a reason, he knows the shortfalls of it.

"There are 3 major new organisations in Australia.
News Corp chaired by Rupert Murdoch.
Nine/Fairfax chaired by Peter Costello.
And the ABC, clearly the problem."

I thought this would be obvious but the ABC is not a private company/organisation its a public funded media outlet.

Private business can take what ever political/social view they like, if people don't like it, they wont buy it.

Public funded media outlet should be as well balanced as possible, ideally completely neutral, clearly some programs and journalist are not and lean to the left.

1. Either get rid of these people and programs and replace them with more neutral programs/journalist

2. Provide programs/journalist with more conservative views to provide more balance.

"Then why is it the most trusted media source in Australia Indo. Why should the MOST TRUSTED media source in Australia be fiddled with."

Because it still is not balanced, it's the social and political areas that need improving in some areas (programs/journalist).

Ideally it shouldn't be shut down, it can and does provided a good service in many areas, but it's clearly needs improving in some other areas.

See post above in how to fix these issues and provide more balance.

Anyway ive got things to do, so lets just agree to disagree.

You're right Indo:

'Public funded media outlet should be as well balanced as possible, ideally completely neutral'

They should be as well balanced as possible. The ABC does a really good job of this, this is why they are the most trusted media source.

The idea of complete neutrality is nonsense, this is not possible with humans involved.

I imagine you would be a big supported of the ABC act for board appointments is supposed to work - with people nominated based on merit by an independent nomination panel, not selected by politicians. The recommendations of which are completely ignored and the ABC board often stacked with political appointments.

Indo, I'll agree to disagree - but in the immortal words of Hedonism Bot:

'I apologise, for nothing!'

I do concede further discussion on the topic is pointless and unhealthy for the forum though.

I deny it.

The ABC’s charter requires it to balanced and on the occasion it gets it wrong there are plenty on the right and it’s favoured media outlets ready to pounce. It does get it wrong but most commonly on non political issues e.g. Catalyst’s story on statins.

The ABC is accused of political bias because it asks the hard questions of our politicians and repeats the question when its not answered but the ABCs so-called left leaning bias really creeps in when it’s journalists have the impertinence to raise issues that the right find difficult to answer e.g. on climate or water management or energy .......... the list is very long.

In that sense it’s a badge of honour by politicians from the right and some of their supporters to accuse the ABC of bias. Now I say some because many supporters of the once “Liberal” Party understand a strong and independent publicly funded broadcaster is vital to a strong and healthy democracy, something many of the current day reactionary stooges on the right don’t or can’t (for ideological reasons) acknowledge.

Now I could waste much time debunking the obscure Nth American agency presented here as proof the ABC is left leaning, how it’s flawed methodology weighs the ABC left centre and the Australian right centre (FFS a paper that openly denies climate change is only rated as centre right!) but what is the point.

We’ve all been here before, same issue, same resurcher, it’s a badge of honour for those on the right to criticise the ABC and to call for it to be privatised.

The fact is the ABC does an excellent job.

Spot on GS.

A few cartoons capturing (captioning) a few themes of the week.

Maybe some body bags needed after NYPDs latest crowd ramming antics
Holy Fuck.

"We’ve all been here before, same issue, same resurcher, it’s a badge of honour for those on the right to criticise the ABC and to call for it to be privatised.."

If the ABC leaned to the right, im certain that you people would be saying exactly the same things, and Labor, Greens, Get up, Guardian etc calling for it to either become more balanced or defunded or privatised if after years of saying the same things little changed.

Like i said before the point at which we know the ABC has reached the centre is when the left whinge as much as the right about bias in the ABC.

When you guys can point at programs or journalist within the ABC and say he should be sacked or that show scraped because you feel it's too representative of the right.

The topic came up because of the issue of defunding of the ABC.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why LNP would defunded the ABC.

Put up or shut up info,

You reckon the ABC is left leaning, come on, list your evidence right here right now, list the reporters and their stories that prove your point .... or are you over it or you’ve got work to do or other such lame excuse you use when you’re asked to be specific about broad brush generalisations.

and while you’re at it care to answer Viclocal’s specific question to you from last week- apart from the Franklin River what other river have the green lobby stopped being dammed which you ignored

Bloody hell udo, what a way to throw fuel on a fire.

https://www.pix11.com/news/local-news/brooklyn/watch-nypd-vehicle-drives...

Indo, while I said I'd let it go - I feel I have to add: If you read The Guardian, which I do (and I suspect you don't, or do so very infrequently) you will see plenty of commenters decrying right wing bias at the ABC.

As I've said, the ABC's charter requires it to be balanced, if they don't stick to this the government can hold them to account. Aside from breaking their election promise and cutting funding for the ABC, the Liberals have not taken any action to correct this supposed bias. Why do you think this is? I suggest that it is because they cannot actually prove real systemic bias and they know that the traction they get by get whinging about it is more valuable.