Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right
OldDog…you are quick to throw words. But you have it got it wrong on both accounts. Depends what you mean by 'wealth' of course. If it is money then that ain't me. If I told what goes on from the inside, you may stop and think - is this right. Certainly, the Libs failed to sell their budget ideas. Lets see if they will learn.
Lets just see what they are able to actually do first before we pass judgment. One thing for sure, people are very emotive and just need to stop and think why how our brand of politics tends to be one of the best on this planet.
tonybarber... Fair enough comment but why didn't Abbott tell the people what his plans where before the election instead of blatantly lying to get elected, his policies are going to hurt people a lot more than Gillard's Carbon tax. If Rudd or Gillard had tried to pull off what Abbott is doing he would have crucified them for breaking promises. Thank God they haven't got a majority in the senate, they would bend us over and shove things up our bottoms. Cheers pal. Btw I do respect your right to hold conservative views, it would be boring if we were all right.
OldDog…appreciate your feedback. Most around me say I am more radical than most - go figure. But some things I saw close up (I mean close up) in the Labor Pd me off. It was wrong and just plain corrupt. Once money came into it, out goes any good policies. Hence the only way I can see out of this was to change. Certainly the change has been crazy but at this stage, not enough to say it was a wrong decision. Lets see in 2 years time.
Gday, Tony..... Yep..... Change was needed...... But not this "change"..... The change that was needed was what was offered in the coalitions pre election promises.... If I order a 6'4 single to double concave swallow, but the courier drops off a 6'7 v bottom round pin, I'd be mighty pissed....
Ya' cant scream blue murder over a carbon tax broken promise, gain political mileage, then turn around and brake nearly every pre election promise and not expect some form of blowback.....
Abbott didn't win the election... labor lost it..... The sooner that fact sinks in to the thick skulled ministry, the sooner they will gain respect....... No more ideology cloaked as policy....
BTW, what an amazing coincidence.... Announce military involvement JUST as 5 pulled up at airports going to the middle east.... No arrests, though..... Who would've guessed...... :/
Another broken promise ... standby the Renewable Energy Target (RET) is about to be dumped.
We only have excess energy generation because some of the most polluting coal fired power plants on the globe will be allowed to continue to operate under this morally bankrupt government.
Floyd..don't jump the gun. Libs are waiting two weeks before they put forward their response to the RET report. Don't know about you but my power bills have gone up 50percent over the last few years and I just hope that slows down.
Europe is also having problems with RET because of the technologies used and associated problems like storage, base power. Nuclear may fix it but nobody likes it.
Solution is not easy and the answer is not blowin in the wind.
@tb; you make some vauge allegation of inside knowlege of Labor corruption, lets hear it? Or better still go to the police or ICAC with your allegation?
I am a member of the Labor Party in South Australia and I sure haven't seen any of this corruption you claim? If you are in NSW maybe you have but remember 9 Liberal Party MP's have recently resigned due to corruption allegations in that state plus your Premier! So if there is political corruption in NSW it's not confined to the Labor Party.
You claim to be some kind of ex Labor voter/ insider but everything you stand for is straight out of the LNP playbook? Now your against renewable energy?
You keep saying give Abbott a chance, he will do the right thing in the end? PUP are the only reason he has had to back down and as soon the Liberals have the opportunity these destructive policies will be right back on the table. All Australians can now see what the Coalition really stand for.
TB,
Dick Warburton, self proclaimed climate change denier is commissioned by Abbott to report on the RET
Old political adage, never commission a review in politics unless you know the outcome
Abbott receives report with conclusions that will see the end of the renewable energy sector and give billions of $AUD to big coal but declares he will wait 2 weeks before responding.
I'll let blind freddy fill in the dots ………
Like YS I want specifics. Tell me about the problems Europe is having with RETs because I don't believe it ……. yes the base power issues are well known but keeping some of the filthiest coal fired power plants open here is bad in a business and environmental sense (i.e. they should be shut down and their value written off just like Qantas did yesterday with some of its ageing jets).
And finally, if your power has increased by 50% in the last few years don't blame the carbon tax, blame your power company (possibly state owned) for building excess capacity into the system thereby getting a guaranteed massive return (government approved formula applied) from punters. If you think electricity prices have increased unfairly wait until gas is charged at international rates later this year or early next (again this is big power and government working together to maximise profits - doesn't happen in the US or elsewhere where domestic consumers are shielded from international pricing)
Yorksurfer.. In many ways I wish it was vague. Some have now been jailed. Some big names voted out.
You may understand when you see this , your heart says one thing then your mind says - this ain't right !
@tonybarber; It's a pity the actions of some individuals have led you to tarnish the good name of a whole political party. Without more specifics I remain sceptical that you are not doing the same thing as grocer did in his accusations against Bill Shorten. Name names tony, tell us what you know if it's already gone through the courts or we can only assume what your doing is more deception and smear which LNP supporters have perfected down to a fine art.
You were right sheepo..I have kept watch, and couldn't resist. See I get confused between which party is left or right. I did hear a very valid comment about Labor being the 'victimhood' party and liberal the 'elitist' party. The whole problem is you can't have one without the other. We need big business or just business to keep the majority of the population employed but the employed want to be employed plus be paid for not being at work or sick or rdo or penalty rates or overtime. Where does that money come from?
For me personally it came when the unions had the upper hand in the labor party and got the large wage increases in relation to business profitability. Don't get me wrong businesses don't pass on profits by employing more people(greedy cunts) but unfortunately you need the businesses to employ workers. Its a psycho vortex of playing each other we are all involved in.
Plus we want free medical forever and free upper education. Has there ever been free education? How entitled are we as Australians ? Where I come from you have to earn everything. Entitlement is just a bit of fantasy or dumb luck. I agree with a fair bit of labors policy i.e don't touch pensioners or legitimate low income or disability.
But to those who I have to pay for well stick it!
imo Abbsy's spin doctors are all ready 'divide and conquer' in regards to the budget.plus he is smashing it in Border security and terrorism..and by the look of ISIS thank fuck he's a hard nut!!
Yorksurfer...I have not tarnished anyone. You would have read about these people in the papers over the last year. This has been going on for a while. Some are in gaol. Some even their own party members moved them on. These party people let us down so badly many of us Labor blokes just could not do it again. They ripped up us big time. Generally the only way to fix this is to have a change. Courts, ICAC only partially fix this. You will still people in power despite what ICAC found. At this time Labor needs to clean up. It ain't there yet but with another leader change both in factions and party then we will be back helping the workers again.
Tonybarber, re' electricity....... Prices started to skyrocket in 2006, waaaay before the carbon tax... During John Howards government;
Barley.... I'll get back to ya... Gotta fly.....
Sheepdog…Be careful when you Google for charts, depends on the source. From the charts above, 2008/2009 look important. But the key point is that about 17% of electricity cost is for RET, Carbon tax and efficiency schemes such as paying for solar systems. But I was really suggesting that renewables is not necessarily the answer, only part at this stage. Europe is trying to go more RET but there are deficiencies with wind & solar which at this stage we can't overcome. Being an engineer, I have been involved with Prof Green with solar research and we even placed a wind turbine on our headland about 20 years ago. Major problems - energy storage (sure we have batteries but look at what materials you need), material used for making the turbine motor, in particular the magnet, solar materials and the efficiencies we can get. At this stage, these sources can only provide a small (20%) solution for energy base load. This is a complex area and different solutions for different needs but for the general populace, we need a large constant source.
Here is a thought - two marine biologists studying the Great Barrier Reef, stated recently that the only way they saw to save the planet (plus reef) from warming was to build nuclear power plants ! Whats the chance of that.
A succinct breakdown of the imminent RET axing.
Is the whole idea of renewable energy bullshit then tb? What happens when we've captured all the wind? As for solar, well we know what a farce that concept is? Lets just keep pumping the atmosphere with polluting shit then forever? Why attempt to change?
Meanwhile Abbott minister Kevin Andrew's right-wing hate group the World Congress of Families is meeting in Melbourne today. This is the same group government minister Eric Abetz quoted when he linked abortion to breast cancer. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/30/protesters-block-entry-worl...
The anti-abortion, anti-divorce, anti-gay, anti-feminist organisation has been spreading their message of hate across the globe in recent years. Kevin was due to open the event this morning but pulled out at the last minute.
Oh yeah they are anti-Islam too yet strangely if they are able to achieve their objectives our society would resemble an Islamic State just with a different imaginary man in the sky.
Sadly in our haste to throw out the Labor government for the crime of saving us from the GFC, attempting to lead the world in the transition to renewable energy, and spending money on badly neglected infrustructure from the Howard years we have now got a group of far-right religious idealogical zealots imposing their beliefs on our secular country. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?
The World Congress of Families believes a womans place is out of the workforce, in the kitchen and permanently pregnant. Abbott said it himself 'What the housewives of Australia need to remember when they're doing the ironing'.....
York - you don't sound happy. I don't think anybody said renewables are bullsh..t.
Just see if you can get some scientific or engineering facts about it.
Do you reckon a city of several million plus is going to get energy from solar ?
Tonybarber
believe in science do we? what about the science of climate change or are we just cherry picking here?
@tb; I do if we change the way we use and produce energy. Its happening already and thats what's so frustrating with the Abbott governments backward looking mindset.
Households could be more self sufficient and generate their own energy using solar to supplement mains power. Battery technology is improving all the time too we need to invest in research and development there. That's what the Clean Energy Finance Corporation is all about.
But of course this doesn't fit well with the old energy companies who want to make money and need us to depend on them. Household appliances are becoming more efficient too and with a change in the way we use energy new products would be developed to take advantage of this.
That's the problem with the entirely predictable resistance to change at the moment, it's holding us back from advancing to a more sustainable future.
Remember it's a transition, it could take 100 years but we have to start somewhere?
Tonybarber writes; "Sheepdog…Be careful when you Google for charts, depends on the source. "
Source - Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics, Consumer price index for electricity (Category 6401.0).
Tony - fact - power prices started skyrocketing in 06/07..... That cannot be denied.... The carbon tax didn't help... But the upward trend started long before the carbon tax... It's in black and white, mate....
Direct correlation with privatisation of power in Qld and disaggregation of Western Australia's power,both in 2006/07...
Sheepdog wrote:But the upward trend started long before the carbon tax... It's in black and white, mate....
Direct correlation with privatisation of power in Qld and disaggregation of Western Australia's power,both in 2006/07...
The rapid rise began immediately after the over capitalisation of electricity infrastructure which was the direct result of purposely over-inflated future growth projections... the gentle art of separating you from your money, private utility style.
Here's an example of a house that generates more energy than it takes to build it, operate it and charge a car in the garage as well. It's being built in Norway, of course!
http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/positive-energy-house-sets-...
@YS..yes there are many solar systems and as we know solar can play a role in energy supply. But, the cost, the pay back period and storage does not make viable for base load. When doing research with this at Uni, we thought we could get 25% max. We managed to get 19% at the time (30years ago) but the best efficiencies now is at about 28%. For isolated properties (like the one in Norway), yep a good solution. For cities - no. But another key problem is the lifetime of the system - generally about 15 years max. Certainly solar has a role but its not the holy grail.
I did say solar supplemented mains power not replaced it? You talk about your studies 30 years ago, is it possible that some younger more forward looking engineers may find solutions to some of the obstacles you mention tb? New technologies often surpass old methods and ways of thinking if funding is available?
Anyway the Abbott governments' winding back of clean energy targets and funding is just one of many he is making to change the direction our country is taking. The cutbacks to health, education, welfare and pensions I find most concerning.
YS...yes that's right you have to supplement solar, unfortunately. Science waits for no one and yes new 'forward' ideas occur everyday by anyone. The beauty of evolution. Let me state that I am not suggesting (and never did) to use or stay with 'old' research. You would know that energy research occurs in just about every Uni and Abbotts 'possible' RET funding limit will not impact this research. What we need to be careful is that if you subsidise RET too much then overseas companies take most of the cash which is arguably what's happening now. But Keeping about 20percent plus limit to Aus companies seems about right. Also we have to mindful that costs increase with a higher RET and I know my crew said they have had enough rises !
There is a solar panel array setup in the US that is about to go live. It directs light / heat to a tower filled with liquid salt that will allow the heat to be stored when the sun goes down and during the night turned into power. I understand that the electricity thus created will be powering no other places than Los Vages.
Its not yet operational but if its successful as its modern day scientists and engineers expect its gunna poo wash (darn that's a good saying) this bullshit about solar not providing base power.
Floyd…. not sure about 'poo wash' but it may be a step forward. My first thoughts are that it would be interesting to see the life cycle of components, particularly the salt tower. We had problems with wave energy systems (ocean based) - not easy and unfortunately costly. Where I think solar can play is as a secondary source. You may have heard about the royal commission in Victoria after the disastrous fires on Black Saturday. It seems wiring was the cause (shorting across and arcing). So the SA government has decided to switch off base load supply during heatwave windy conditions and then use localised solar systems . The Vic government could not make this call as they thought power supply shutdown would cause more problems.
Another interesting solar system (relatively large scale) was done by Apple. Now that is interesting since they need to keep large data centres fully powered, so its complex. I still favour hydro although its expensive.
hydro, like this (now under threat under Warburton's RET report)
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2014/s3969447.htm
Heard about these sort of plants all over Germany ....
Problems with base power being turned off ??? What about problems with coal, as a engineer lets start red herring them shall we
Can someone tell me why we can't use the eastern seaboard current that runs non stop between 3 - 8 knots to run turbines off the coast of all major centres for electricity, is it corrosion, or is it that it might work.
If it did work why don't energy companies invest, hedge their bets,
Can someone tell me why we can't use the eastern seaboard current that runs non stop between 3 - 8 knots to run turbines off the coast of all major centres for electricity, is it corrosion, or is it that it might work.
If it did work why don't energy companies invest, hedge their bets,
Oops, a double hit
Meanwhile in Victoria news on the Libs attack on renewables ....
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/napthine-government-accused-of-attacki...
Floyd....Germany is still building coal plants. It wants to reduce nuclear. The US are going to clean / filter the coal stations. But do you really want power your money to foreign companies to build wind turbines and solar plants ?.
A good exercise is to go find out how much it would cost to put on your house. Then find out the lifetime and how you will store it. If you live in a unit then use an average 3 bedroom house, say.
Unfortunately the bottom line is that renewables will not supply much more than 20percent.
Lets call it 20% just for the sake of discussion.
Is that a reason to keep some of the oldest and dirtiest brown coal power stations open here? Just answer that question and don't introduce some new thread on an unrelated topic.
Further, if you know so much about Germany tell us your views on how government loans are provided so communities can develop and (ultimately own after the loans are repaid) the means and profits of power generation from renewables e.g. hydro, wind, solar, methane, thermal capture. Like their cars the Germans just do it better than anyone else.
Floyd.. Yep 20percent is about the best we can at this stage. We will have to stick with coal if you don't want prices to keep going up. I suggest we will need to build new coal or gas powered but cleaner and more filtered. I can't see nuclear starting here at this stage. But science & tech changes quickly so in ten years we have nuclear fusion figured out.
Didn't answer the question. I repeat, is that a reason to keep some of the oldest and dirtiest brown coal power plants open?
F...new more efficient and cleaner plants would better. I would suggest hydro. As know they have a life of about 40 years. I don't know the number due for replacement. In NSW I think it's about three ???
As I have said many times in the climate change thread, I have no problem with coal, but I do have a problem with ripping up the worlds forests....
BTW, the recent la nina events and massive rainfall over the past decade on the east coast of Australia turned the region into a massive carbon sink;
https://blogs.csiro.au/climate-response/stories/record-rains-made-austra...
Now, back to Abbott/beheadings/isis/media manipulation.... Blowin, yorko etc, I stand by everything I insinuated back when the original beheading photos were saturating the Australian media..... Nazi like propaganda to soften up the Australian public for military involvement.... Plus didn't it sell copy.... Cha ching!!!!
T… the question, yes or no: is that a reason to keep some of the oldest and dirtiest coal power plants open?
Sheepdog, likewise I have no problem with coal so long as its now seen as an interim measure until renewable energy technologies can take over AND plants that have reached their used by date are closed and not replaced with similar polluting ones (clean coal is a myth)
I've followed your thread here on Abbott/the press/team Australia/call to arms and have agreed all along. We Australians like to pick shit on the Kiwis but at least they have a foreign policy independent of Uncle Sam. It seems like the Libs just like sending Australians off to war (Hawke and Gulf War 1 noted)
We have to do something with our obselete military hardware. Such a waste of perfectly good lethal weapons to just sit around in dusty boxes wasting space before being melted down.
We enabled Isis when we invaded Iraq, now arm the Kurds and get them killing each other.
Thats what you do when you want to conquer an area.
You can carpet bomb it but that isn't very efficient. What you do is get the people to destroy themselves by arming or enabling both sides.
All this bullshit from Abbott about it being a humanitarian mission. We don't care about the Kurds or anyone else over there. Just what benefit can we gain by destabilising the region?
It's a win win for us.
When the worst is over we can send in all those young newly unemployed layabouts who can't get work to mop up while we establish new military bases.
I heard there's oil in them there hills........
YS..it seems you don't live near Lakemba, Sydney or near it. Try to go for walk thru there. Also, you might want to read up Saddam (Iraq) . The Shiite - Sunni problem is not the cause of US or Aus. The problem has been there long before Columbus saw US. I hope you are not saying that the ethnic killing by ISIS is excusable ? What's the win for us ?
Floyd...yes coal seems to be the only answer (if not nuclear) until we figure out nuclear fusion. Yes, I am sure the new coal plants being built in China, will be 'cleaner'. Also we need to fully understand the renewables is nowhere near the answer for base load. I suspect we will have about 10-15% with maybe a hydro dam or two supply energy over the next 30 years.
Floyd...yes coal seems to be the only answer (if not nuclear) until we figure out nuclear fusion. Yes, I am sure the new coal plants being built in China, will be 'cleaner'. Also we need to fully understand the renewables is nowhere near the answer for base load. I suspect we will have about 10-15% with maybe a hydro dam or two supply energy over the next 30 years.
Do you think we would have involved ourselves in that region if it wasn't for the oil tb? Why would we want anything to do with them? If the Islamists want to form a state just send all the ones from Lakemba who want to return on a one way ticket and tear up their passports up on the way out.
We want to control that area because we need the oil.
Iran(with Russian support) has started eyeing off the region and we are getting freaked out. Do you really believe that rapid Isis advancement earlier this year happened without our knowledge?
It seems like the Libs just like sending Australians off to war (Hawke and Gulf War 1 noted)... Funny, isn't it... They call themselves "conservative"...
barley wrote:You were right sheepo..I have kept watch, and couldn't resist. See I get confused between which party is left or right. I did hear a very valid comment about Labor being the 'victimhood' party and liberal the 'elitist' party. The whole problem is you can't have one without the other. We need big business or just business to keep the majority of the population employed but the employed want to be employed plus be paid for not being at work or sick or rdo or penalty rates or overtime. Where does that money come from?
For me personally it came when the unions had the upper hand in the labor party and got the large wage increases in relation to business profitability. Don't get me wrong businesses don't pass on profits by employing more people(greedy cunts) but unfortunately you need the businesses to employ workers. Its a psycho vortex of playing each other we are all involved in.
Plus we want free medical forever and free upper education. Has there ever been free education? How entitled are we as Australians ? Where I come from you have to earn everything. Entitlement is just a bit of fantasy or dumb luck. I agree with a fair bit of labors policy i.e don't touch pensioners or legitimate low income or disability.
But to those who I have to pay for well stick it!
imo Abbsy's spin doctors are all ready 'divide and conquer' in regards to the budget.plus he is smashing it in Border security and terrorism..and by the look of ISIS thank fuck he's a hard nut!!
It's all just bullshit, mate..... It's like choosing between a turdburger and a shit sandwich..... Poll driven madness..... The glass is always 1/2 empty with both parties..... "Oooohhh 6% unemployment"..... So glass 1/2 full means 94% have work..... Even if unemployment was 10%, that means 90% have work....
Fear and control...... An age old tactic that still works in a .com world......
YS..yes, it would be great if we could just send the Lakemba radicals to Iraq or the ISIS state but that does not happen. They want ISIS here !
The bloke that had the head in his hand was from Aus - Lakemba. He had already been in gaol for trying to blow up our army base. They are here, gents. It ain't about oil for us.
Its not Just Libs that send our blokes to war . Labor is fully supporting what Libs are doing at present - so they should.
So going into Iraq again will solve the home grown terrorist problem? I doubt it. More like encourage them to act. Sadly it's only a matter of time till they do on the current path we are on.
YS...not sure what you know but Aus soldiers are not going to Iraq. Maybe use your idea and send all of Lakemba. But I don't think they will go. As I said if you don't think there is a problem here then just go for a walk (if you can) through downtown Lakema.
Anyway most Aus support this. Seems only Muslims don't.
No-one got anything to say about the loss of the car industry under a government and high viz Tony that promised to create 1,000,000 jobs?
Slumber away ........