Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Ummm. I don't know how old you are, blowin, but alot of them were paying houses off till the late 1990s, paying 18% interest rates, mate...... As if any working class folk could afford to buy more than one back then, especially when secondary properties are looked at differently by the taxman, by banks etc..... Do some research, bloke.......
And yeah, i do know many pensioners struggling due to rates being forced up thanks to ridiculous pricing.... Power, water, phone......
Are they meant to sell up? Move from their born and bred suburbs? Where? A pensioner in her home of 50 years in lets say Carina Bris' is meant to sell up and move to ?...... In Carina, she has her doctor of 20 years, her friends for life, her family nearby, public transport because she is too old to drive...
To get this "hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank"you speak of, she'd have to move to Esk, or out the back of Toowoomba..... No transport there, 2 weeks wait for a doctor, no friends, no family....... And now that cash in her bank, she loses most of her pension because of it, and ends up having to spend it on transport etc.... She can't "gift" the money to her kids re' gifting laws.......

These working class people busted their guts all their lives..... Now we just say "hey, downsize... Sell up and move to shitville. You should thank us..... We want you to blow 1/2 the worth of your house on surviving..... We dont want you to have anything left to pass on to your kids....."

Nice work, blowin ;)

I probably got the wrong impression when i saw my parents, my missus parents and several of my friends parents do It and they are having the time of their lives, wishing they'd done it years ago.
But you're right, the glass is half empty. I'll have to let them know.

You must've been posting same time as me, yorko..... What is wrong with inheritance? It's a noble tradition passed on from generation to generation.... Only since the marketing hounds and parasites promoting "ski holidays", and boomer greed has the tradition been under attack.... I'll assure you, older and wiser races like the chinese, the greek, the Italians will stick with handing on the baton..... Only the society at the beckoning call of advertising and marketing will shun it.... "They" have worked out a way to milk every dollar from every age demographic, whether it be via your kids wanting the latest shit, or your boomer parents crossing off a bucket list...... The boomers parents would be rolling in their graves....

As a nation we can't afford to continue with genourous welfare for those with means at the expense of younger generations who have well and truly missed the boat?
An example is a couple aged 70. They have a $700,000 house and $500,000 super. Pretty common. Not wealthy just middle class. I could be describing my own parents. The pension is about $35,000 p.a for a couple, $20,000 for singles.
If they live to the average age of 84 for men and 87 for woman that's $550,000 they will draw from government revenue in their retirement. They will gain interest on the super but still might spend $300,000 so could leave $900,000 total inheritence to their kids?
If they live to an average age?
They might live into their 90's and the amount they draw could double? Over a million dollars of governement money (per elderly couple) from the taxpayer!
Now times that by the amount of people entering retirement age at the moment?
That is a astronomical amount of revenue our government will need to generate through taxes, cuts or savings?
If we were to return the welfare payments of wealthier pensioners back into government revenue from their estate if they die at the average age the inheritance would still be $350,000, a more modest amount but certainly not peanuts?

Or we could just send our young people off to war to be slaughtered so the baby boomers middle aged kids(like me) can keep their parents money, then continue to import cashed up migrants to buoy the economy? A more likely scenario the way things are going?

Nah, yorko..... You need to go to Clink website and use their calculator..... Let's just forget about the grossly and deliberately inflated house for a moment ( yes, i know "shelter" or one's abode has now been "privatised" so to speak lol, , peoples caves have been turned into trading commodities heheh)...
But let's just look at facts on how it stands right now.
https://www.centrelink.gov.au/RateEstimatorsWeb/publicUserCombinedStart.do

Your hypothetical gives this couple an annual income stream of $15625 each pa, if they both live to 86.... I also "assumed" say 10k each in a std savings account Punch that into the calculator.....
See? They are not entitled to anything..... No pension......

Maybe im not seeing it but i don't agree that the first home owners grant had anything to do with property price rising. In a very minuscule amount of cases yes, but only through either agent, builder etc greed and it would only be to the value of that grant anyway which hasn't always been overly generous in my eyes.

I think if you've payed taxes your entire working life then your entitled to some form of pension it would be harsh to take money away from the estate but generally speaking a 80 year old with assets of 1 million dollars probably doesn't need the pension. Those with multiple assets or some form of cashflow probably don't need it either.

But where do you draw the line with welfare? Someones always going to be unhappy. I'm happy now Because i saved close to 20 k i wasn't happy last year when centrelink wouldn't give me a cent because my girlfriend of 2 months earns too much.

Ah I see Sheepy superannuation is counted differently to assets. I found these asset figures to qualify for a part age pension. It's very generous and doesn't include the value of your home of which there is no upper limit......

http://www.superguide.com.au/how-super-works/age-pension-when-are-the-th...

It had everything to do with it, rees0.... But we'll agree to disagree.... I'm not gonna go through it all again ;)
Just look at when it was brought in - then look at the graph.... The look at the graph again in 08/09 when it was boosted to 21k.... Then look again post 2010 when it was wound back....
Re welfare state...... Well, it's possibly the best form of economic stimulus invented..... It puts roofs over poor peoples heads, it secure the elderly, and these folk put that tax money straight back into the economy via woolies, landlords, pubs, and chemists..... People can argue that if we didn't have welfare, the government would have more money to spend on stuff..... But I'd trust a pensioner before any wingnut politician....
So I don't mind "MY" taxes going into welfare.... Alot of oldies come in for a cuppa and a cake at my wife's shop on pension day :) ............
Now don't get me started on the government laws for couples rees0...... I had the same bullshit years and years ago when we were going through a lean patch....... I had to declare my wifes small part time wage at the time, plus Howard wanted me to work for the petty amount I was entitled to.... I just told them to fuck off, and ate 2 minute noodles till the work picked up.....

yorkessurfer wrote:

Ah I see Sheepy superannuation is counted differently to assets. I found these asset figures to qualify for a part age pension. It's very genourous and doesn't include the value of your home of which there is no upper limit......

And it shouldnt include the value of your home, yorko..... Your cave is your cave...... What will happen is pensioners and poor people will be relegated to West Wyalong, Renmark etc.... Only the wealthy and investors will be able to live in the cities or close to the beach..... In fact, it's becoming difficult to get workers to do medial jobs in Sydney because a cleaning wage wont cover the rent even.....
It's underhanded social engineering..... And for every action there's a reaction......
Do you know where I'm coming from?
BTW - There should be laws that bind one's super into an income stream..... Too many unscrupulous folk blow there super on a BMW, a holiday, and then have their hand out......

Yeah I agree people shouldn't have to leave their homes Sheepy. I spent a night in West Wylong a few months back on a road trip. The pub was pretty good but I wouldn't want to move there;)
Still there is a huge revenue crisis coming.
How will we fund the baby boomers retirements amongst other things?
Hockey's answer is to kick to younger poor. I think we need to reign in welfare to the middle classes and that includes the very generous assets test applying to pensioners. But neither party will touch this as it's a huge demographic and would be political poison.
So kicking the young, sick and poor it shall be.......

Here's my experience with house prices: When Abbotts mentor little Johnny Howard was elected you could buy a nice 3 br. home on the mid coast 30 mins. south of Adelaide for under 80k . When he was booted out eleven years later that same house was valued at $350,000.00. So it took about 200 years to get to 80k then
11 years to jump 400% under a greedy investor driven Liberal Govt. and they were patting themselves on the backs for achieving this result. BTW interest rates were 13-17% when I had a mortgage but the monthly payments were peanuts compared to the poor bastards these days. Cheers.

Something about us dogs ;) ....... yeah, Let me pay 15% of 80k any day compared to 7% of 1/2 a mill.....

Yorko.... It's all just "panic"...... that's why I started that "golden age of fear" thread a while back..... Who knows what the future holds, mate.... Who says there wont be another mining boom down the track? Who says someone may not discover a big chunk of "rare earth" deposits somewhere in Oz? All we hear is doom predictions..... No positivity...... It's all encompassing.... It's crippling to the mind and soul, and to the nation...... Depression and anxiety rules... Just the way they want it.......

A thread of paying bills, bills and more bills to live and getting ripped off with interest etc would probably be suited now.

Anyway's something is positive, we are still alive, so make the most of life and enjoy;)

yorkesurfer...your speaking my language. I was just thinking the other day exactly that - recoupe pension welfare payments from deceased estates. I totally makes sense. - don't call it death tax though - that'll fail for sure. I agree that elderly people should never be kicked out of their homes - its their home and they may have spent decades there & only a heartless govt would do that...but its NOT their offsprings home. why does a child deserve large inheritance IF it came at the expense of taxpayer funded dollars. im not talking about 1 for 1 dollar recoupment but at least something to keep things fair. im mean its of no concern to the deceased right? - they are dead. I expect my kid to make his own way in life just as my parents did for me...sure they supported me until I could stand on my own two feet..but after that its just a case of get on with and earn your way.

I agree happyasS but I am not against parents wanting to leave something to their kids after their gone, that's human nature.
But as a society we need the best minds to rise to the top in whatever field they choose to put their energy into. Well that cream doesn't necessarily reside in the wealthiest families.
If we don't have a decent social, educational and health safety net we will lose alot of that talent to the poverty cycle.
Baby boomers have acquired great wealth through hard work and the good fortune of living through a very prosperous period in our countries history. Why shouldn't some of that wealth go back into building a brighter future for the next generation?

there probably should be a death tax of sorts too...say 5% or 10% of your estate goes to the govt when you die...I mean a kid losing out on 10% inheritance isn't gonna make or break him/her. I know a few blokes that only plan as far as 55 and don't give a shit after that because they talk up their "inheritance" that'll save them in retirement, and one of em isn't a bad wicket either. WTF is that about? so just waste your dollars & live beyond your means because you can get away with it.

there always needs to be a pension available, but the government seriously needs to look properly at some of this stuff. the govt says that 9% super just isn't enough..well why don't they increase it?

anyone want to know how to kill the property boom...scrap or heavily reduce the 50% capital gains tax reduction that Howard introduced in 1999. as soon as interest rates rise a bees dick you'll have every investor shitting themselves and running for safety. howard really did govern in a wonderful period - how easy it must have been. people go on about how good he was, well how could the guy put a foot wrong in that time.

heres another idea...how about parents start investing their money into the children here and now - start spending on life/education/travel/health/sports/doing shit, instead of throwing it all into their f'n house. Australian's obsession with f'n house prices going up has almost become a sick cultural identity. sorry..ranting now...must be getting tired.

happyasS wrote:

anyone want to know how to kill the property boom...scrap or heavily reduce the 50% capital gains tax reduction that Howard introduced in 1999. as soon as interest rates rise a bees dick you'll have every investor shitting themselves and running for safety. howard really did govern in a wonderful period - how easy it must have been. people go on about how good he was, well how could the guy put a foot wrong in that time.

heres another idea...how about parents start investing their money into the children here and now - start spending on life/education/travel/health/sports/doing shit, instead of throwing it all into their f'n house. Australian's obsession with f'n house prices going up has almost become a sick cultural identity. sorry..ranting now...must be getting tired.

Plus only make it possible for Australians to buy property (at least residential)

And gradual get rid of the tax benefits of negative gearing, step by step.

First only allow it for one investment property ( i know people who have up to 17+ houses)

Then down the track scrap it altogether.

Yorko, happyas...... Death duties? "recoup pension welfare payments from deceased estates"? Really????
"Vulturism"............... Will this only be for poor people (death duties)? I mean, If I bust my guts all my life, pay taxes, even the gst on paper every I wipe my arse, I set myself up a fully funded retiree, giving pen pushers in superannuation companies a job, spending money at the local cafe therefore giving a "young person" or a young couple who own the cafe a future, are you going to be circling my corpse?
I want my hard earned life saving to go to my kids... I want them to be smart and work hard and hand it on to my grandkids, ad infinitum.....
I say fuck off to vulturism......
In regards to "killing" the property boom....... You kill it, be ready for the ramifications... For every action there's a reaction...... Prices have stabilised, and the only way to get out of this mess is to ride it out... Minimal capital gains in housing over the next decade will be the go.... Inflation, wage growth, more housing will catch up, and house prices will be reasonable again..... Slow process.
And I agree re' super being lifted, happyas.... Plus as I said earlier, restrict super so it is a income stream, not a BMW, a holiday, and then a handout begging poor for a pension...
Indo, I agree re' foreign buyers.... We don't even know the % of land owned....
Re' "investment property".... I sort of agree..... I'd have to look into that more.....

wellymon wrote:

A thread of paying bills, bills and more bills to live and getting ripped off with interest etc would probably be suited now.

Anyway's something is positive, we are still alive, so make the most of life and enjoy;)

Welly.... The adults are talking, little mate..... Go outside and play......... :p

Thats what I mean Sheepio, who gives a fuck about Aboot and his cronies.
Work and pay the bills, ie life, income, TPD Insurances, car, mortgage, electricity, food, road tolls, piss, petrol, schooling, medicals, doctors, surgeons, holidays, have I forgot something...? Yeah stop having a whinge about this and that. Move to Antartica, warmer there;000-:(
We live in a good country, it all evens out in the end, We die.......;)
Carry on Adults as you were.

@wellymon-They say a frog will stay in water being gently warmed till it boils. They don't notice the heat until its too late. But I guess you can always go back to NZ if the heat gets too much?
The rest of us have to sit in the pot and live with the consequences of Abbott and his cronies idealogical experiments.

Too cold YS
I will boil in the pot with you fellas and just keep on making ends meet.
Politics with this kid is out of my realm, might go and play in the bush with the Yowies and let you gentlemen battle it out ;)

Fair enough welly but now that you've dipped your toe in the warm water that is this debate what would be the tipping point where you would think about moving back to the 'land of the long white cloud'?

• You get a phone call while at work from your wife telling you she's been mugged and had her handbag stolen at the shopping centre carpark?
• You park down at the beach for a surf and have your car broken into or stolen for the fifth time in six months?
•You see neighbours putting up barbed wire fences around their homes due to increasing break-ins and home invasions. Should you install your own fence too? Or buy a gun?

That's life for many people in countries that don't have a social welfare safety net for the poor?

I'm no clairvoyant but I can see the future if Abbott gets his way and hundreds of thousands of under thirty year olds are running around without an income and zero chance of landing employment in a shrinking jobs market?

Actually Yorkessurfer you just described a situation where everyone is on welfare....by choice.
You just described Port Hedland for the duration of my time there exactly. My car truly did get broken into 5 times in 6 months . The last couple of times a window was smashed even though it was unlocked. I also had rocks pelted at me as I drove around one arvo.

Some houses did rock the barbed wire but most just had a Rottweiler or such other large unfriendly beast in the yard.

Oh yes YS, you have hit a point there and it is probably worse in 'Aoteroa' at the mo.

Haha my wife would probably take the handbag off peanut who is trying to rob her and bash the living fuck out of him/her.

Never had my car broken into or stolen, have a ferocious Jack Russell in the car, windows down and a spangle key locked to my front springs, ooops shouldn't have said that one....?

Funny about my neighbour, He's born and bred in Bankstown way, tuff bikie bro, who cares for Welly when I'm away and comes out in his undies late at night with a shot gun yelling obscenities when he hears things...

I honestly hear you YS about the poor getting poorer as this is such an expensive country to live in. There have been fuck heads snooping around mine and my neighbours sections late at night the last few months for sure, which has not happened here in the last 10 years.....? Lucky we both have ferocious dogs..? So yes I agree with your statement of "I'm no clairvoyant but I can see the future if Abbott gets his way and hundreds of thousands of under thirty year olds are running around without an income and zero chance of landing employment in a shrinking jobs market?"
Hope things change YS.

To tell you the truth YS i'm not worried about getting ripped off, I leave my house open, my car unlocked at night, shed un bolted, I'm a trusting person..;)
If people want my shit then let it be, yes I will be pissed off but, I pay so many insurances I'd probably love a new skill saw, drill, weed eater, Surfboard's well thats another story especially ya favourites eh.
As long as they don't steal my dog or hurt my tough "Banchee" Wife .

Blowin wrote:

Actually Yorkessurfer you just described a situation where everyone is on welfare....by choice.
You just described Port Hedland for the duration of my time there exactly. My car truly did get broken into 5 times in 6 months . The last couple of times a window was smashed even though it was unlocked. I also had rocks pelted at me as I drove around one arvo.

Some houses did rock the barbed wire but most just had a Rottweiler or such other large unfriendly beast in the yard.

Wrong place Blowin, move on quick.

Long time ago now Welly. Thank fuck. WTE ( Worst Town Ever )

wellymon wrote:

Thats what I mean Sheepio, who gives a fuck about Aboot and his cronies.
Work and pay the bills, ie life, income, TPD Insurances, car, mortgage, electricity, food, road tolls, piss, petrol, schooling, medicals, doctors, surgeons, holidays, have I forgot something...?
We live in a good country, it all evens out in the end, We die.......;)
Carry on Adults as you were.

I give a fuck, welly ;)
I saw Jello Biafra from the Dead Kennedy's at a spoken word tour back in the 90s...... Actually got to speak to him which was a real buzz.....
This one particular line he told me that sticks with me forever is.... "feel the monkey wrench tighten".....

Now, not all of us are cut out to be working drones.... Not that there is anything wrong with that.... I'd love to have a brain like forest gump...... Sometimes I channel forest down here in tassie..... I lose myself in the garden, at the beach...... I see spotted quolls come up to my feet at night.... I have a friend forest raven.... He comes and calls me at the back yard... I give him and his wife tasty cutoffs..... They bring their kids around in summer..... I lose myself for a little while...
But my "out there brain" always clicks back in...... Can't help it...... My parents knew they had a problem when at the age of 10, I sat and watched the election on the ABC...... ;)

I know you do Sheepio doggy
I appreciate that :)

Holiday in Cambodia..?
Loved that one on the Walkman snowboarding steep lines down thru a run called Cambodia at Red Mtn BC
Yieeeeewww

Ha ha. Yeah sheepdog I guess I did sound a bit like a vulture. I guess my thoughts were really about the family home as an asset being passed on tax free. Agree that ones hard earned money should not be taxed twice, so a death Levy might have been over the top. but how should that extend to the family home which was bought with hard earned money but then grew in value triple or quadruple through no effort. Your home is not an investment, it does nothing for the economy than serve your own self interests. Yet is tax exempt. Anyhow there's certainly no perfect soln to this stuff and whatever decisions get made there's always people to complain.

Yep, happy...... Cant please everyone.....

I’m sure this has already been commented about: haven’t read the threads for a bit. Hockey…. What’s happened to the bloke? Poor people can’t afford cars or only drive short distances……so the excise on fuel won’t affect them.

That’s gotta be the most fucked up comment I’ve heard since no child will live in poverty.

Just for myself, I have to drive 60k’s or there a bout’s to buy a couple of litres of milk, so I am very considerate about when I plan my shop in terms of fuel and make sure I get what I need. With that planning I can get by with what I grow and what I have for at least a week or even two if pushed.
How is a pensioner, farmer, young couple supposed to deal with that in a rural area where jobs are as scarce as essential services.

Hockey you have lost my respect (not that you ever wanted it) so I’m going to offer a little bit of advice, for free: STOP INSERTING BUDDAH STICKS INTO YOUR CIGARS. Try and ween yourself of it, because you’ve changed.

Hey Welly it’s not a Yeti mate, that’s creeping around your place, sure it’s got fur, it has a torso a head and four limbs and mostly feels comfortable to come out in the dark of night when you are safe & secure in your slumber. It’s what they call here, a Koala! Trust me mate they are 100% harmless. Best tip; only feed your dog enough! Then there is nothing for your local wildlife to scavenge during the night. Then you won’t have to be afraid. Bro you and your neighbour should leave the shotgun in the gun safe because if you follow my tip you won’t have to fill the place full of lead. SE QLD can be harsh for a Kiwi.
E noho rā

Well said, fishlegs.... Hockey has lost the plot....

This bunch of incompetent idiots makes the previous labor govt. look like a well oiled dream team machine.
Hockey hasn't changed, he's always been an arrogant out of touch self serving dishonest, sneaky, lying ,fat
elitist P.O.S. still no-ones perfect, apart from that he's o.k. for a Liberal politician who hates the working class with a passion.

.

.

Oh well said chaps, Hands up who earns 16 grand a year or less? I dream of getting the pension, but as I get closer they reel in the carrot, no worries sell ya fuckin house, yeah I can live in a caravan, like blowey mentioned I'll have wished I had done it earlier.
Fuck , have any of you guys been skint for a few years, not weeks, it's all theory for you guys.

I'll tell you how fucked up your society is, remember that $900 payment you all got to help stimulate the economy, I didn't get it cause I didn't earn enough money to pay tax, not through lack of working. That's when I realized I'm not part of your society, any way well said chaps.

Stop ya' whinging and get back to fuckn work, morris........ Are you part of "team Australia" or not??? ;)

Team Australia rules dictate that the more you earn the more of a say you have morris. Gina earns billion$ so she gets the most say.
You my friend are somewhere near the bottom of the barrel so get back in your box. I'm earning about $30,000 a year so I have slightly more say in the grand scheme of things then you.
As for living in a caravan, dream on. Living in your car is the best you can hope for I'm afraid, as long as you don't drive it!

I'm living out of my car right now. It fucken rules.

Where...?

On the road Welly.

Just trying to track you down Blowin ;)

I have the GPS strapped under your car and are waiting till your in my neck of the woods at the right time to have a surf and an after surf beer.

You always leave hints, but Port Headland got me off track, then I realised it was years ago.

Give us a hint, WA dessert...? South Oz, NSW, I know your not in Indo with ya sore groin:)

I seen a campervan with a trailer down at Burleigh the other day, on the back of the trailer, a sign in big letters said "Adventure before Dementia", I thought that was you until an old bloke in this 80's jumped out....?

I heard Blowin's been living at the Bluff for the past month in his 1/2 million dollar Winnebago. Tough gig!

...and I heard he's on the dole.

And if he picks up 40 pieces of dog shit around the campground a month he meets Centrelink's jobsearch requirements stu'.

I'm not far from today's WOTD Welly. But only for a couple of days , then it's on to greener pastures. Well redder pastures if you want to get literal. A few months in the sun will hit the spot nicely I think.

I told you exactly where I was yesterday ( I think it was yesterday ) but changed plans due to weather and not loving the cold.

No Winnebago Yorkessurfer . I've bought an old Datsun 120Y and pimped the fuck out of it . I've done a 4WD conversion , thrown on a Nitrous Blower and raised it 2 inches at the back end. Sprayed jet black with a solitary red flame running the full length of each side.
It's amazing how far your money will go when your claiming the pension under a dozen pseudonyms.

It turns out I can import 5 Indonesian employees on 457 visas, subcontract them to pick up my allotted 40 pieces of dog shit per month and after paying them minimum wage ( yeah let's say minimum wage - that sounds a lot better than $1.50/ day they're actually getting ) I'm still making a nice little earn.

Life's good !