Next Federal Election
Andy
Australia can't afford an Aircraft Carrier .
We don't have many defenders .
Name 1 way , thats m0r Cost Effective than Subs and F 35's .
Maybe a Few Guided Missiles , perhaps .
Our defence is OUR responsibly , not the US .
If Biden is elected President again , we should break ANSUS .
Australia should do OUR own thing , then .
They can keep their bases here ( we must get something ) , but NO following , automatically , anywhere !
Pop Down wrote:Andy
Australia can't afford an Aircraft Carrier .
We don't have many defenders .
Name 1 way , thats m0r Cost Effective than Subs and F 35's .
Maybe a Few Guided Missiles , perhaps .
Our defence is OUR responsibly , not the US .
If Biden is elected President again , we should break ANSUS .
Australia should do OUR own thing , then .
They can keep their bases here ( we must get something ) , but NO following , automatically , anywhere !
Yep agree we don't need an aircraft carrier, they are for projecting power not defence.
Some good missile defence to take out any ocean-going hostile craft, fleet of diesel subs and ships
Drones as defence with air force.
And solid infantry so if any army could actually reach our shores (don't know how) they will not be welcome.
I agree 2 , mostly .
Subs are Cool as , I think , can't B brought down ( UP ) by a computer hacker .
Switzerland has the Most advanced defence system and would Use them , if they could .
They use the Full Arsenal of Military Defence and should be a Model we emulate , when possible imo .
I think the Nuclear option , better ( more scary as U ( boat ) never really know where they are ) , than diesel .
Infantry can be solid but will always B2 small to worry a China or Indonesia .
I love a Drone Shield idea .
Our Military also need 2 help with stuff in Oz .
Disaster Relief 4 example .
This work needs 2B be done at the same time .
They are the Ultimate Police , Policing Australia imho .
So , we come back to Cost and Cost Effective Projects !
Victoria's budget , looked ok , a few years ago .
It's NOW a Train Wreck .
Don't count on US . 2 give U the money , Albo .
I have NFI where ALL the money disappeared 2 ?
Lets gets some Bean Counters into Canberra and find out , HOW WELL , our Money is being spent .
I heard a military dude say aircraft carriers are on the verge of defunct with developments in guided missile technology
its easy to dismiss indonesia so close to our north as no threat - because, they're not...
but this is an incredibly naive and wilfully ignorant position...
for two reasons:
china basically owns indonesia in every way
and, one only has to look how easily japan occupied indo in WW11 to appreciate how quick and easily we could china and all their military hardware knocking on our door
and, three, a new one... indo is already intertwined with russia well beyond little moscow in bali... with new prez prabowo, proudly spruiking his pro russia credentials pre election... he's all the way with V lad P...
it's hard for me to admit, and I really don't want to stoke paranoia... but its become clear to me, especially through covid and current instability, that the polite nature of indonesia, doesn't extend to being friends through thick and thin...
this applies to leadership mainly, which is largely aloof, clueless, B grade, and corrupt...
"...Victoria's budget , looked ok , a few years ago .
It's NOW a Train Wreck .
Don't count on US . 2 give U the money , Albo .
I have NFI where ALL the money disappeared 2 ?..."
I think you need look no further than your illustrious leader
and his embrace of all things china...
covid reponse, belt n road, and otherwise...
(it must really suck when the feds shut down your treasonous pipedreams, and thus you have pay australia prices (real prices) for everything, ...without the aldi bags of cash coming in through the back door...)
I love Victoria but it is in a bad financial shape. Cost of doing business there is very high. Money you save in rent compared to Sydney is spent on extra taxes and levies propping the state.
come to SA, we've never had money, but we're getting good at it.
gotten soooo good at it basesix!
so good, SA isn't the attractive affordable place it once was...
SA used to be a basket case, with unemployment and house prices always bringing up the rear in close competition with TAS
now its house prices are way up there overtaking perth
I think I preferred it before...
meanwhile, vicco has the most afordable housing in Oz
SA is well on the way to 100% (ish) renewables too...
amazing investments made considering the basket case eonomy and flight of manufacturing from the state
I read the only reason dictator dan can ban gas stoves in VIC is because they can rely on SA for energy... you go green dan...
you incompetent, irresponsible, shadow shifting, fraudulant, fucking leech
if there's anyone still out there that believes in the myth of the 'big australia' eonomics...
one need just look at vicco to see it is all bullshit
I can't get over how renewable we are. what does that elon's world-beating battery give us though? half an hour of power if it's dark and windless?
AW - if only that was how the world worked, why have defence at all? It would be a better place if no one had expansionary plans and no one needed defence. Unfortunately, this time is more like the 1930s when authoritarian powers were last on the march. If you look at defence spending, everyone is re-arming as fast as they can. Russia is actually on a war economy now. Not a time to have no defence. See how the fruit ripened for the pacifist Dutch governments of the 1920s, in 1940 and 1942 on opposite sides of the world. Doesn't work out well.
Pops - if we break ANZUS, well: where one great power surrenders influence, another great power steps in. This is great power competition, and it's back, same as it always was. Our defence is our responsibility and part of that responsibility is to recognise the great powers amongst the middle and small powers. Whose sphere of influence should we come under?
We are an island maritime nation and as such the sea determines our fate - just like Japan and the UK. Having a big army is after the fact andy-mac. ("I am not saying the French cannot come, only they cannot come by sea.")
We will see if carriers are obsolete after the fact. In 1940 surface ships didn't have much AA; by 1944 they certainly did and could hold back kamikaze attacks, keeping fleets in theatre. As threats arise, countermeasures develop. See Houthi turkey shoot for real world experience being gained right now. Big Australia, if it survives, might want to project power later this century with carriers or what they evolve into. A2AD for now.
Last month's fleet review put dramatic emphasis on increasing missile loadout - we've realised with Ukraine/Houthis and the amount of China's missiles both on land and at sea - check out the Type 55 destroyer- that we don't have enough ammo. They've even adopted autonomous drone missile carrying ships as part of the review to augment the fleet's firepower, this is astounding, this type of warship is new and as yet undesigned!
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-02-20/navys-enha...
In this way the shooting ship, like the battleships of old, has re-eclipsed the carrier, as missiles have more range than carrier-based aircraft currently. Never ever thought I'd see the battleship come back but here we are. Carriers will still have uses and that's why anyone serious is still building them.
Nuclear subs have the stealth, speed and lethality to send an entire fleet back into port, as the Royal Navy's subs did to the Argentine Navy in 1982. And thus they are very useful if needed, too.
OK defence/geopolitics hat back off.
I always find your defence posts interesting
Hey VJ
Would Australia not be able to defend its main population centres by taking out any naval force with a missile defence system in place?
Surely with modern surveillance we could detect hostile fleet and take out with missiles well before they are threat on landing?
I honestly don't know, but would think that would be possible.
If a landing force was to beach at a remote spot, surely the logistics of getting to any major population centre would be very challenging? Water supply lines etc.
Anyway don't know much about military, but seems that present Sub deal is not economical or effective. Especially as it probably won't eventuate and if it does it will be a couple of decades too late. Could we get missile defence sorted sooner?
All this rearmament talk is horrifying, as nuclear war is a possibility and then nothing really matters, not climate change, pandemics or Slater surfing snapper.
Thanks for your post, always interesting.
Cheers
Hi Andy, glad you asked those questions.
Here is a link that is well worth the time spent, a group of realistic simulators do so for an attack on Darwin. As best they can, they have 2024's tech and capability and numbers. There are limitations, like AI aircraft behaving unlike well led squadrons. Have a look and see.
We are a way off A2AD missile defence imo, but it's on the way. I can only reflect on having something like a patriot system in the scenario linked. For Pops, here is the answer to Australia defending itself on its own.
Notice what happens to the Navy when the ammo runs out. Notice also the difference between 4th gen and 5th gen stealth aircraft and their influence. And then imagine a phantom nuclear cruise missile equipped submarine on the Chinese flank, and how that would alter the battle.
Slackjawedyokel wrote:I always find your defence posts interesting
You should see my model ships. If I ever finished one! Shaping boards or finishing the ships...
Cheers VJ
Will give it a watch tomorrow.
& Andy, the AUKUS agreement will see a rotation of US and UK subs based well before the 2040s, so that would have to be taken into account. I'll keep that bit vague, you can find the dates if you wish online.
also hypohystericalhistory channel on youtube is a great place to get an understanding of all this, he's a legend, he surfs as well so hopefully he reads this - kudos from a history grad!
velocityjohnno wrote:& Andy, the AUKUS agreement will see a rotation of US and UK subs based well before the 2040s, so that would have to be taken into account. I'll keep that bit vague, you can find the dates if you wish online.
also hypohystericalhistory channel on youtube is a great place to get an understanding of all this, he's a legend, he surfs as well so hopefully he reads this - kudos from a history grad!
Ok cheers..
velocityjohnno wrote:AW - if only that was how the world worked, why have defence at all? It would be a better place if no one had expansionary plans and no one needed defence. Unfortunately, this time is more like the 1930s when authoritarian powers were last on the march. If you look at defence spending, everyone is re-arming as fast as they can. Russia is actually on a war economy now. Not a time to have no defence. See how the fruit ripened for the pacifist Dutch governments of the 1920s, in 1940 and 1942 on opposite sides of the world. Doesn't work out well.
Pops - if we break ANZUS, well: where one great power surrenders influence, another great power steps in. This is great power competition, and it's back, same as it always was. Our defence is our responsibility and part of that responsibility is to recognise the great powers amongst the middle and small powers. Whose sphere of influence should we come under?
We are an island maritime nation and as such the sea determines our fate - just like Japan and the UK. Having a big army is after the fact andy-mac. ("I am not saying the French cannot come, only they cannot come by sea.")
We will see if carriers are obsolete after the fact. In 1940 surface ships didn't have much AA; by 1944 they certainly did and could hold back kamikaze attacks, keeping fleets in theatre. As threats arise, countermeasures develop. See Houthi turkey shoot for real world experience being gained right now. Big Australia, if it survives, might want to project power later this century with carriers or what they evolve into. A2AD for now.
Last month's fleet review put dramatic emphasis on increasing missile loadout - we've realised with Ukraine/Houthis and the amount of China's missiles both on land and at sea - check out the Type 55 destroyer- that we don't have enough ammo. They've even adopted autonomous drone missile carrying ships as part of the review to augment the fleet's firepower, this is astounding, this type of warship is new and as yet undesigned!
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2024-02-20/navys-enha...
In this way the shooting ship, like the battleships of old, has re-eclipsed the carrier, as missiles have more range than carrier-based aircraft currently. Never ever thought I'd see the battleship come back but here we are. Carriers will still have uses and that's why anyone serious is still building them.
Nuclear subs have the stealth, speed and lethality to send an entire fleet back into port, as the Royal Navy's subs did to the Argentine Navy in 1982. And thus they are very useful if needed, too.
OK defence/geopolitics hat back off.
VJ …Hi mate, great informative posting by your good self as usual.
Hope you and your family are well.
What I find interesting about this whole defence/war discussion which I’ve somehow started, which I think is good, hey, we are all talking about it, can only be a could thing, is that whenever war is discussed we always tend to bring up the past, looking back at the wars we’ve participated in, instead of looking forward with a focus on how to prevent them.
Isn’t prevention better than cure.
Surely most would agree we operate in a different global context these days.
I’ve my own theory , with such sophisticated weapons these days, don’t you think that ‘he who fires first may also be fired upon first’ , bit of cat and mouse, it’s like , who is going to pull the trigger first .
For example would Putin send a nuclear weapon to the USA, knowing too well, they’d get one back straight away.
I just may have a kooky mindset on this whole war thing.
I still think most powerful countries are still too scared to initiate fighting with another country with comparable military might.
What about New Zealand, do they feel threatened by anyone, I know they don’t have much allegiance towards the USA?
This discussion started with talk about national expenditures, surely we can all agree, we spend way too much money on military when it could be better used for more humanitarian endeavours, and by this I mean hospitals, public housing, education, species protection etc. These are the areas with the greatest societal needs.
Maybe I’m incredibly naive.AW
Hi AW, all going well here hope you are too. That beaut SE WA area you toured through is currently underwater!
Prevention is better than cure I certainly agree (being knocked out of the surf currently) but the human condition seems to be filled with an element of Greek Tragedy, and so the past must be looked at.
For example if we wanted to diffuse the tensions in the SCS, we would arrange an agreement between all vested parties on boundaries they could agree on. Only problem is that they don't, and can't. Different powers lay claim to different areas based on different reasons from historical to lines drawn on a page.
If we wanted to diffuse the tensions over Taiwan, this time it pays to look into the history. As you may know, following the Chinese civil war (post ww2) the Kuomintang (nationalists) withdrew to the Island leaving the mainland to be consolidated by the Communists. Thus, the war was never really concluded (like the Korean War) - and as a result there are two competing forms of government that lay claim to control of China. It would be difficult to get them to agree to one solution for all. Further, loss of face is a big thing and if Xi has said he will reunify China by a certain date (he has) then one would have to plan that an attempt will be made to do this. This is the Greek Tragedy element, where leaders are drawn into action by pursuing paths that lead to great loss of life.
We can look to buildups of arms over history to divine intention. The Kaiser's mad rush to be as big a naval power as that of his Grandmother (Victoria) and Uncle (Edward VII) pushed Imperial Germany and the UK towards conflict. The buildup of the respective fleets was enormous, and when military assets are built up in history, they are usually used, sadly. Some more examples: Philip of Spain cut down pretty much every tree on the Iberian peninsula to build the 1588 Armada. It was only the 'divine wind' that saved Japan from Kublai Khan's huge fleets in 1274/1281. The Satsuma clan built hundreds of ships to take the Ryukaku islands more recently. Chamberlain and Hitler were signing 'peace in our time' as both countries frantically re-armed. And today: China now has the biggest navy in the world by number of ships - their rate of naval shipbuilding is enormous right now. It's not just them, ship/plane/ammunition/drone/missile building is ramping up on both sides right now.
Given this, would it be wise to ignore what one sees?
In terms of exchanges, there's diplomatic, grey area, kinetic and then nuclear - powers have a ladder of escalation they can follow or retreat from. If it goes nuclear, it will have been kinetic for a while - save for a mass 'Pearl Harbour' style strike scenario. It's already kinetic in Ukraine and by proxy in Africa (I hasten to include Israel, that struggle has it's own history), grey area with all the boats bumping in the SCS, and diplomatic as increasing numbers of countries "choose a side".
Here's a relevant painting:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Kikuchi_Yoosai_-_Mon...
The way we view time is a result of the culture we grow up in. Western cultures show time as a linear progression, think 'that's progress' or how visible technology has changed, always getting better. Eastern cultures think of it as more cyclical and there is some sense here as the same human emotions and actions tend to repeat themselves. The truth is probably a combination of both.
velocityjohnno wrote:If we wanted to diffuse the tensions over Taiwan, this time it pays to look into the history. As you may know, following the Chinese civil war (post ww2) the Kuomintang (nationalists) withdrew to the Island leaving the mainland to be consolidated by the Communists. Thus, the war was never really concluded (like the Korean War) - and as a result there are two competing forms of government that lay claim to control of China. It would be difficult to get them to agree to one solution for all. Further, loss of face is a big thing and if Xi has said he will reunify China by a certain date (he has) then one would have to plan that an attempt will be made to do this. This is the Greek Tragedy element, where leaders are drawn into action by pursuing paths that lead to great loss of life.
That's really well said and there's even more to it than that.
A basic, ancient and very deep-rooted belief in Chinese civilisation is the "mandate of heaven".
The belief is that at any given moment in time there can only be one legitimate ruler of China and the Chinese people (and no others, not even competing "political parties"), that this single ruler rules "all under heaven" (天下), so all the Chinese people, and its rule is a divine right or mandate and even obligation bestowed on it by the blessings of the "gods" (heaven, 天).
Xi and The Party believe three things: In the mandate of heaven, that he has it, and that Taiwan and more importantly the Taiwanese people are part of China (included in "all under heaven").
So Xi and the party believe that by the mandate of heaven they have not only a divine right but also obligation bestowed on him by heaven to complete the unification of what he sees as "all under heaven" which includes Taiwan and more accurately the Taiwanese people:
My understanding and belief is that the Chinese don't consider Taiwan as part of "all under heaven" necessarily in geographical terms, but more culturally and "ethnically" in terms of the fact that population of Taiwan is nearly all Han Chinese from or descended from China and thus they are all Chinese people, and the political system of Taiwan goes directly against the mandate of heaven which says that there can be only one ruler over all the Chinese people.
For over 5.000 years Chinese civilisation developed largely in isolation to the rest of the world, particularly the West, with very minimal contact with it. As a result, Chinese civilisation developed a completely different worldview and interpretation of history, which strongly relates to the saying in your last post and is reflected in the fact that Mandarin Chinese is a Sino-Tibetan language family, whose only rival on planet earth in terms of the number of speakers is the Indo-European family (ours).
(This is another reason China considers Tibet and more accurately the Tibetan people as also included in "all under heaven".)
Chinese civilisation believes that its worldview and interpretation of history is equally if not more correct and accurate than the West's, particularly since all through history they were an equal and at time stronger and more advanced rival and peer to Western civilisation. The Chinese have no intention of abandoning their worldview and history, particularly the notion of the mandate of heaven, and they are hard at work strengthening it and rolling it out across the globe as basically a rival alternative reality to Western civilisation. This is the situation we in Western civilisation are facing.
I see Dutton and the good ole boys and gals of the federal liberal and national (reactionary) parties are following the same well worn path to electoral oblivion of his state counterparts here in Vicco …. Reactionary politics 101; when the science doesn’t agree with your backwards looking ideology try to discredit it but not this time buster, dick
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/csiro-hits-back-at-dutton-att...
U make me Smiley
Voldy and his whole Scary Gang Struck into Electoral Oblivion at the waving of a CSIRO Wand ?
So cool !
U are in a trance , perhaps lol , as Who really Cares haha .
U think THIS CSIRO article , actually harms Dutton .
The Average person , doesn't care about this non nuclear .
If they did they might think , Other Countries are Using it , We are getting nuclear subs etc and at least SOMEONE is talking/thinking about getting my Electricity Bills down .
Smiley , remember , It's Governments THAT Lose Elections .
Eventually , they send themselves , into Oblivion !
Why don't U talk Up Albo and his team ?
Someone should , try .
Labor has done a good job in ruining the economy in 2 years, surely people won’t vote Albo in an again.
But then the disaster the Liberals made of the the Covid fiasco, it’s like flipping a coin.
Won’t vote liberal ever again, have never voted labor.
^^^^ https://m.
Meanwhile, in Tassie,
Qldurrz [L] Power...be very afraid it don't backfire!
We'll do Qld Fed > State > Local
2022 Fed Election (Actual Campaign Sign)
{ Lilley [LNP] Candidate Referred to the AFP }
Lobo's Team was rude to ALP sitting member A. Wells...not off to good start...
Lobo says he signed a Lease to live in his new Electorate.
But...wait for it...
Los Lobo says his Campaign Commitments delayed him from getting Tradies & his shit together...
Tradie Hassles prevented him from moving in to become a real life resident in the Electorate.
Lobo says he intended to something or other...
AEC have found a room for Lobo in a much bigger House until next Fed Election
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/16/former-lnp-candid...
Retiring Qld Premier's Seat of Inala...
Another [LNP] Candidate @ the wrong Gig.
Inala Candidate Trang Yen...
Pretends to vote for herself with someone else's Ballot in wrong electorate despite already voting...
Somehow impossibly gets even more fucked up!
This is premium Qld Electoral Commission shitfuckery...
When asked why Trang was in the wrong photo booth voting with wrong ballot...
Says her (Now 2nd) other Voting Paper belongs to the other Chick in the photo...WTF?
(Cough!) Say wot... (Try again!)
Oh! Ya mean this Pink Voting Paper...it actually belongs to a 3rd person...My Photographer? OMG!
Well...it's gotta belong to someone...perhaps...one of the crew?
So can we investigate this Voting Paper...OMG! Wot a Stupid Question tbb...Votes are sacrosanct!
(Sure! Why not...Trang shares with the World how Official AEC [L] photographer Voted...say wot!)
Crew guessed it...Yes! She is so stupid enough to PROMO [L] Photographer's 1-8 (QEC...Wot?)
Think coz every single Voting Law was breached so Qld Electoral Commission juxta suppose it's ok!
Don't ask...still got no fuckin' idea how Daft [L] chick pulls this off without being struck off...Qldurr!
AEC Rules for filming free [L] campaign ads in Wotz New official Electoral Advertising Vote Booths
After voting, be sure to pretend to vote again with whomever's ballot...place it in any box ya like.
But ya must first share yer pretend person's real Ballot with the Real World before voting a 2nd time!
AEC : "If ya get stuck > Just follow Trang's AEC endorsed highly improbable How to Vote Card!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/friendlyjordies/comments/1bef3ez/the_lnps_candi...
No Qld [L] wrap is complete without...
A trip to Redlands - Place of No return > (Personified Pure Evil) Andrew Laming
Since about 2010 Each Councilor motions for CCC to sack the lot for taking Whiteshoe bribes!
Sounds as fucked up as it is...No Redland Council never trusted themselves to make good!
Even really cool super good stuff turns to shit real fast.
Think AL(See below) installed Anti social Security Cams to bust folk for saying shit.
Careful wot ya say in these captive secure Hubs...not joking! Have read about these trials...
All know AL is a creep...he'd be the one gettin' off on this!
https://www.redlandcitybulletin.com.au/story/4610775/cameras-go-up-at-is...
Current Mayor got pissed & smashed the City's car after meeting with Drink Drive Victims.
tbb knows that sounds impossible...not 'round here it ain't! All turns to shit...
Be crazy or cursed to run for Mayor in this town!
Who's Andrew [L]aming > The only candidate that could defeat Putin...that's who!
( Putin would not survive a campaign against GOD Andrew Laming )
Oh no...not that creep...ACA #1 Villain...> Hates everyone & everything for every possible reason!
But...Absolutely loves himself...so he reckons that makes up for it...hey!
Is it even possible for [L]aming to conjure up any new more hateful dirty campaign tricks...
He promised he'd behave...(No one buys that shit from this prick!)
Most prayed that he'd campaign without harming or insulting all other candidates...Yeah/Nah! FU.
Don't take longer than 5 minutes for GOD to poison the Whole Qld Council Elections
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/03/queensland-redlan...
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/laming-stirs-...
This week...(Hopefully the end of it...Yep! Election Day will be most colourful!) C.R.E.E.P.
Laming printed up fake Signs about rival Redland City Mayoral candidate
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/42600be08e39eb8ac9f5243725c92848
Big green signs [ JOS = Green$ ]
Judge : "Only Indy Jos is not Green...is she ...Is she Andrew?
Laming : "Not saying she's in the Green$...just saying she's GREEN...ya fuckin' losers!"
Newscorp luv brewin' this shit up...Qldurrz are fuckin' droolin'! Please be so!
[L]aming's Signs blocked by court!
Jos wins legal fight against Laming's Signs!
God's Mum falls from chair...or "Was she Pushed!" OMG! Gonna Cry! Please make it Stop!
https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/7a0f69a68db1b532a788d3949e50a091
Good news, these people are serial pest and normally get slaps on the wrist, so great to see an increase on appeal.
ashsam wrote:Labor has done a good job in ruining the economy in 2 years, surely people won’t vote Albo in an again.
But then the disaster the Liberals made of the the Covid fiasco, it’s like flipping a coin.
Won’t vote liberal ever again, have never voted labor.
Cool story
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tide-has-turn...
andy-mac wrote:ashsam wrote:Labor has done a good job in ruining the economy in 2 years, surely people won’t vote Albo in an again.
But then the disaster the Liberals made of the the Covid fiasco, it’s like flipping a coin.
Won’t vote liberal ever again, have never voted labor.Cool story
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tide-has-turn...
"tell him he's dreaming!"
perception is everything...
firstly, I think jim chalmers is a talented dude whose head is in the right place, and has done an excellent job kerbing labor's innate propensity to splash cash re. inlation...
if reports are correct, he's also done a great job taking albo to task, re. the stage 3 tax cuts... ie. ball-less albo didn't wanna go there, but chalmers showed some gumption and conviction, and pushed it hard, creating a bit of a rift between the two...
however, any clown with access to a calculator knows we are already in a 'per-capita recession' and have been for some time... with the only thing saving face on the cooked books being labor pumping 735 000 new bodies into the economy...
another saviour is iron ore prices being surprisingly buoyant... until now...
this has saved the numbers til now, but a real recession is close on the horizon, and more than likely, will be in full swing come election time...
kookoulas' argument just evaporated!
this will be coupled with the full effects; of over the top migration coming to full fruition- putting a strain on everything; cost of living crisis seeing little relief; and iron ore prices likely dying in the arse even more compounding budget problems...
good job chalmers (no sarcasm) but the winds are against you
labor would have done better to just face the recession a year or so ago (ie. don't import 100s of thousands of problem compounding bodies) and hope they could have gotten on the right side of it come election time...
perception is everything...
kookoulas is in propaganda mode
2 good years - where the public incidently, ain't feeling it at all - does not counter decades of perception...
and propaganda...
having said all that, from my perspective...
the opposition has absolutely nothing to offer... and they confirm this daily...
however, albo is so on the nose, and their primary vote so abysmal... they'll have to do better than spruik their own flukey and flawed credentials on a couple of good years to overcome the general stench...
sypkan wrote:having said all that, the opposition has absolutely nothing to offer
Was going to say go and check out the parallel universe where Morrison won the last election and see how things are going......
Yep they are far from perfect, but compared to the last rabble they are better on every indicator.
Chalmers makes Taylor look like a fool....
Is this a sick joke?
Chalmers has run Australia into the sewer of third world living. I mean literal third world living whereby regular Australians are homeless and living under bridges, on park benches , in cardboard boxes on city streets and ….if they’re super lucky…in cars.
This is singles, couples and even families.
Yeah…..mum, dad and kid’s living in tents because Chalmers has turned the Australian standard of living on its head and subjected Australians to global competition for a roof over their head and a living wage.
Chalmers is a fucken national disgrace. And he’s still better than most of his fellow cabinet members.
No better than LNP and anyone telling you otherwise is on the take alongside Albo and co. If someone is telling you the ALP are working for Australians they are either drunk, corrupt or drunk and corrupt.
Thats a pretty insane graph and the rise aligns exactly with Covid 2020.
^^^
yep
there's that...
disgraceful
however, they are a minor minority come voting time...
and sadly for me, beyond words can capture... I think it is disgraceful how readily australians have accepted american style encampments in major population areas as the norm...
this is hardly a major issue for most australians, and will continue to be so, as they so desperately try to maintain their own roofs over their heads...
and the associated 'wealth effect'
decades of conditioning, ridiculous migration, associated propaganda, cultural eroding, and a general telling of this is how its gonna be... suck it up...
has done untold damage
and, people are scared shitless to rock the leaky boat...
Jim Chalmers and the wider labor cartel is the biggest threat to our living standards and future Australia has ever faced. The global Marxist left must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.
Their critical race theory motivated massive immigration is intentional, planned warfare on and destruction of the Australian working class and Australian culture, values and living standards. CRT believes that developed nations have to open up and hand over their high living standards and quality of life to the disadvantaged coloured migrant from poor developing nations, because developing nations are helpless, innocent, defenceless, powerless victims to the white Christian colonial capitalist slave-master oppressor, who caused the poor living standards in developing nations in the first place. High living standards countries are obligated to open up to the poor coloured migrant, instead of the poor coloured migrant in developing nations working to improve their own lot, because they are unable to due to being helpless, defenceless victims of the colonial capitalist oppressors. The overall outcome, as we're witnessing right before our very eyes, is simply the regression of living standards in developed nations back towards that of developing nations, and nothing more.
This is also the contemporary extreme left ideological stance of the Greens party, who now hold it over and above their green roots, as is also evident in their Israel-Palestine stance. The Greens is now Australia's Marxist party.
Also, Chalmers worships as his "economic idol" the socialist Mariana Mazzucato, who calls for the rollout of large scale government intervention, central planning and direction, communist collectivist decision-making and the WEF's "stakeholder capitalism" into all aspects of the economy. She is pushing for the establishment of despotic command and control economies across all of the West in the name if inclusivity, diversity, collective innovation and "inclusive and sustainable growth". The basic belief of Marxism here is that the decision making, autonomy, self-direction and freedom of the individual person and wider private sector is evil and a mistake, and cannot be trusted, because it results in poor outcomes. Hence, people need to have their freedom, autonomy and liberty - here economic - stripped and taken from them, and put into the hands of governments, who are supposedly "enlightened" superior decision makers compared to the people and have the true interests of the people at heart and know better than the people about what the most desired outcomes in society are. This is also the ideological foundation of the whole big government/big debt/high tax/MMT/industrial policy/picking winners/collectivist innovation/etc push of the global left that we're seeing rolled out across Western economies. The belief is that the governments need to large-scale intervene and direct and control the economy towards desired outcomes, particularly because supposedly Western nations have a singular focus only on economic growth as the expense of all other outcomes, including "inclusivity", diversity, sustainability, technological development and innovation, etc.
This and more is all part of the global Marxist left's assault on the pillars of Western civilisation, including the freedom and autonomy of the individual, white people, Christianity, democracy, personal responsibility and accountability, etc. Our labor cartel in Australia is right in the thick of the extreme left ideology.
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Is this a sick joke?
Chalmers has run Australia into the sewer of third world living. I mean literal third world living whereby regular Australians are homeless and living under bridges, on park benches , in cardboard boxes on city streets and ….if they’re super lucky…in cars.This is singles, couples and even families.
Yeah…..mum, dad and kid’s living in tents because Chalmers has turned the Australian standard of living on its head and subjected Australians to global competition for a roof over their head and a living wage.
Chalmers is a fucken national disgrace. And he’s still better than most of his fellow cabinet members.
No better than LNP and anyone telling you otherwise is on the take alongside Albo and co. If someone is telling you the ALP are working for Australians they are either drunk, corrupt or drunk and corrupt.
Amazing he was able to achieve all that you stated in approximately 2 years!!!
Everything was fine before the economic wreckers Labor got in...
Yep I know I'm a Labor shill, and probably drunk...
Carry on.......
Is it time to relegate the topic to the back page already?
Chalmers has delivered a few budgets and hasn't really stuffed anything up .
So , gets a tick from me .
Has NO Chalm , with the Voters and under the radar .
Melie in Argentina , IS Slashing Government Number Crunchers , by the 10's of Thousands .
Been honest with the people and has said " This will fn Hurt US ALL " , but IT , has 2 B done .
Argentina's inflations is over 200% .
He has really told the Chinese to F off and fn means it , with Action .
I love watching it !
He has a well thought out Policy on fn Everything !
He HAS 2 , 2 make a difference !
The People are Right behind this fabulous Leader , as they want Change !!!
ALBO'S Government has a No Policy , Policy , atm , on The Costs of Living .
He and Bowen ( who else IS there ??? ) better start DOING Stuff soon .
The Election is next Year !
People can bitch all they like about Albo and co, especially the Sky/ The Australian crew and we know what their agenda is. Labor baaaad K...
We have a 2 party system, love it or hate it or something in between that's what we presently have and it does not look like changing in the near future. It may slightly change with more independents getting voted in. In my book, yes I would like to see more independents holding the 2 majors to account. Think Andrew Wilkie, Rex Patrick style...
But as we stand right now, the alternative to Albo and Chalmers is Dutton and Taylor, and if you think they would do a better job in any way you must be either corrupt, nasty, bitter, stupid, drunk, stoned, on the meth, or all of the above.
Hey Andy
Not on meth or drunk atm , but Hope Someone can change , Australia's current trajectory on a Few important issues .
Macca you are wrong , some sensible people will be willing to listen and THEN judge , Peter ( Voldy Perfect ) Dutton , Sussan High Chair and the Liberal Team , 2 C if they Offer an alternative .
Thats how Election campaigns should work .
Then , they ALSO have the Nationals , country people seem to keep liking their candidates .
The Greens give Labor ONE hand and Albo , pays 4 it 2 , big time !
All of Them , are coming 4 Albo .
You are smart to be keeping an eye on the Independents .
It is NOT the job of any fn Independents 2 decide a fn Government Eg Three Amigo's Abbott Fiasco !!
Do U want Pauline Hanson , holding the balance of power ffs ??
Not sure how durable Teal is , as a Colour of importance !
Governments keep loosing Elections .
Half of Australia , usually goes Labor OR Liberal .
Albo is lucky he followed Morison ( a Real Liberal DH ( on some drug !!!)) .
Pop Down wrote:Hey Andy
Not on meth or drunk atm , but Hope Someone can change , Australia's current trajectory on a Few important issues .
Macca you are wrong , some sensible people will be willing to listen and THEN judge , Peter ( Voldy Perfect ) Dutton , Sussan High Chair and the Liberal Team , 2 C if they Offer an alternative .
Thats how Election campaigns should work .
Then , they ALSO have the Nationals , country people seem to keep liking their candidates .
All of Them , are coming 4 Albo .
You are smart to be keeping an eye on the Independents .
It is NOT the job of any fn Independents 2 decide a fn Government Eg Three Amigo's Abbott Fiasco !!
Do U want Pauline Hanson , holding the balance of power ffs ??
Not sure how durable Teal is , as a Colour of importance !
Governments keep loosing Elections .
Half of Australia , usually goes Labor OR Liberal .
Albo is lucky he followed Morison ( a Real Liberal DH ( on some drug !!!)) .
Still waiting for LNP to put forward any policies besides dog whistling or nuclear power!
indo-dreaming wrote:Good news, these people are serial pest and normally get slaps on the wrist, so great to see an increase on appeal.
Good to see indo, thanks for sharing.
Really Andy
Voldy sure has U in a Spell and u are Spinning around the nucleus .
Its Cost of Living Issues Australians are worried about .
IF some Uranian Mine said , U can have a little Reactor Installed here , that will Provide 24/7 , Cheap Electricity to Every Place within 1000km of it , I say OK .
Australians are Grown Ups mate , we aren't all really scared of this Shit !
The Huge New cost is Transmission Lines with Enough Grunt .
Most existing Power Transmission Lines are just 2 weak .
A Big Gas Pipe works better !
Nuclear is just NOT as Easy as fn Gas !
How about our Existing government have a policy that gives 700k new Australian's Electricity ???
The current Prices are hurting most Australians and IT sure matters , 2 them .
Why don't U talk UP , ALBO ?
You have told who u think are the boogy men and women .
U think the people who are willing to support them , degenerates ( very Hilary of U :) ! v
Tell me about your Good Guys and Gals ( Pliba is gone AWOL due 2 the Voldy puff ) , please .
Goodies v The Badies haha .
"...Albo and Chalmers is Dutton and Taylor, and if you think they would do a better job in any way you must be either corrupt, nasty, bitter, stupid, drunk, stoned, on the meth, or all of the above..."
I think you need to realise the new dynamic is a feeling of there's absolutely nothing beteeen the two...
purely window dressing
also, that the sky / australian / murdoch line is incredibly tedious, gains no cred., and sounds like lame excuses
therapeutic for the faithful perhaps, but...
gsco mkII wrote:Jim Chalmers and the wider labor cartel is the biggest threat to our living standards and future Australia has ever faced. The global Marxist left must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.
Their critical race theory motivated massive immigration is intentional, planned warfare on and destruction of the Australian working class and Australian culture, values and living standards. CRT believes that developed nations have to open up and hand over their high living standards and quality of life to the disadvantaged coloured migrant from poor developing nations, because developing nations are helpless, innocent, defenceless, powerless victims to the white Christian colonial capitalist slave-master oppressor, who caused the poor living standards in developing nations in the first place. High living standards countries are obligated to open up to the poor coloured migrant, instead of the poor coloured migrant in developing nations working to improve their own lot, because they are unable to due to being helpless, defenceless victims of the colonial capitalist oppressors. The overall outcome, as we're witnessing right before our very eyes, is simply the regression of living standards in developed nations back towards that of developing nations, and nothing more.
This is also the contemporary extreme left ideological stance of the Greens party, who now hold it over and above their green roots, as is also evident in their Israel-Palestine stance. The Greens is now Australia's Marxist party.
Also, Chalmers worships as his "economic idol" the socialist Mariana Mazzucato, who calls for the rollout of large scale government intervention, central planning and direction, communist collectivist decision-making and the WEF's "stakeholder capitalism" into all aspects of the economy. She is pushing for the establishment of despotic command and control economies across all of the West in the name if inclusivity, diversity, collective innovation and "inclusive and sustainable growth". The basic belief of Marxism here is that the decision making, autonomy, self-direction and freedom of the individual person and wider private sector is evil and a mistake, and cannot be trusted, because it results in poor outcomes. Hence, people need to have their freedom, autonomy and liberty - here economic - stripped and taken from them, and put into the hands of governments, who are supposedly "enlightened" superior decision makers compared to the people and have the true interests of the people at heart and know better than the people about what the most desired outcomes in society are. This is also the ideological foundation of the whole big government/big debt/high tax/MMT/industrial policy/picking winners/collectivist innovation/etc push of the global left that we're seeing rolled out across Western economies. The belief is that the governments need to large-scale intervene and direct and control the economy towards desired outcomes, particularly because supposedly Western nations have a singular focus only on economic growth as the expense of all other outcomes, including "inclusivity", diversity, sustainability, technological development and innovation, etc.
This and more is all part of the global Marxist left's assault on the pillars of Western civilisation, including the freedom and autonomy of the individual, white people, Christianity, democracy, personal responsibility and accountability, etc. Our labor cartel in Australia is right in the thick of the extreme left ideology.
glad someone said it
because its the only thing that comes close to explaining labor's reckless immigration policy...
"Why don't U talk UP , ALBO ?"
this is a damn good question
literally no one does, its all dutton dutton dutton...
(reminds of another little contest)
all this would be more berable, if labor hadn't PROMISED the opposite...
sypkan wrote:gsco mkII wrote:Jim Chalmers and the wider labor cartel is the biggest threat to our living standards and future Australia has ever faced. The global Marxist left must be defeated and destroyed at all costs.
Their critical race theory motivated massive immigration is intentional, planned warfare on and destruction of the Australian working class and Australian culture, values and living standards. CRT believes that developed nations have to open up and hand over their high living standards and quality of life to the disadvantaged coloured migrant from poor developing nations, because developing nations are helpless, innocent, defenceless, powerless victims to the white Christian colonial capitalist slave-master oppressor, who caused the poor living standards in developing nations in the first place. High living standards countries are obligated to open up to the poor coloured migrant, instead of the poor coloured migrant in developing nations working to improve their own lot, because they are unable to due to being helpless, defenceless victims of the colonial capitalist oppressors. The overall outcome, as we're witnessing right before our very eyes, is simply the regression of living standards in developed nations back towards that of developing nations, and nothing more.
This is also the contemporary extreme left ideological stance of the Greens party, who now hold it over and above their green roots, as is also evident in their Israel-Palestine stance. The Greens is now Australia's Marxist party.
Also, Chalmers worships as his "economic idol" the socialist Mariana Mazzucato, who calls for the rollout of large scale government intervention, central planning and direction, communist collectivist decision-making and the WEF's "stakeholder capitalism" into all aspects of the economy. She is pushing for the establishment of despotic command and control economies across all of the West in the name if inclusivity, diversity, collective innovation and "inclusive and sustainable growth". The basic belief of Marxism here is that the decision making, autonomy, self-direction and freedom of the individual person and wider private sector is evil and a mistake, and cannot be trusted, because it results in poor outcomes. Hence, people need to have their freedom, autonomy and liberty - here economic - stripped and taken from them, and put into the hands of governments, who are supposedly "enlightened" superior decision makers compared to the people and have the true interests of the people at heart and know better than the people about what the most desired outcomes in society are. This is also the ideological foundation of the whole big government/big debt/high tax/MMT/industrial policy/picking winners/collectivist innovation/etc push of the global left that we're seeing rolled out across Western economies. The belief is that the governments need to large-scale intervene and direct and control the economy towards desired outcomes, particularly because supposedly Western nations have a singular focus only on economic growth as the expense of all other outcomes, including "inclusivity", diversity, sustainability, technological development and innovation, etc.
This and more is all part of the global Marxist left's assault on the pillars of Western civilisation, including the freedom and autonomy of the individual, white people, Christianity, democracy, personal responsibility and accountability, etc. Our labor cartel in Australia is right in the thick of the extreme left ideology.
glad someone said it
because its the only thing that comes close to explaining labor's reckless immigration policy...
Haha... yeah right, that explains it!!!
Labor's reckless policy, well same as the old one but taking less of this cohort by the looks of it!
Why not promote Albo? As I have pointed out not really a huge fan especially with AUKUS and the other matter taking place in ME amongst others, yep been disappointing but also understand there are restraints with what can be done horse trading within a party and trying to please the electorate with a hostile media.
To blame the economic conditions on the last 2 years is dumb, these problems have been brewing for years and exacerbated by Covid etc.
If you reckon Dutton will do better, then you vote for his representative in your electorate when the time comes.
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/education/australia-approves-record-lo...
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Is this a sick joke?
Chalmers has run Australia into the sewer of third world living. I mean literal third world living whereby regular Australians are homeless and living under bridges, on park benches , in cardboard boxes on city streets and ….if they’re super lucky…in cars.This is singles, couples and even families.
Yeah…..mum, dad and kid’s living in tents because Chalmers has turned the Australian standard of living on its head and subjected Australians to global competition for a roof over their head and a living wage.
Chalmers is a fucken national disgrace. And he’s still better than most of his fellow cabinet members.
No better than LNP and anyone telling you otherwise is on the take alongside Albo and co. If someone is telling you the ALP are working for Australians they are either drunk, corrupt or drunk and corrupt.
Yep this is truly sad, seeing Australians become homeless when policy could be so much better in their favour. Sent a message to local member on this topic, got back a point-list on all the fantastic policy they are going to do.
This is what it looks like:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-09/families-left-with-no-choice-but-...
As for those rental prices, there was actually a dip (a fall!) right when covid started as borders closed and the people influx stopped - prices started rising early '22 when everything opened up. The border closures achieved what no policy in the last 20 years could - stopped the population ponzi.
The young are voting in favour of parties that have achieved such rent increases. I don't think they understand this, and the beatings will continue until they do.
Might as well put this up in the politics subforum, to spare the front page. It's 18 months away or so, but here we go.
This is how Dutton wins:
https://www.afr.com/politics/enter-the-liberal-party-working-class-heroe...