Next Federal Election
This is a good ABC article on the topic from April 2023
"Gas power a critical safety net in energy transition set to cost 'trillions', study finds"
Australia's biggest power grid would need to triple in size within eight years and trillions of dollars would need to be spent, according to a report outlining the colossal task of achieving carbon neutrality by 2050.
As a starting point, the report found the capacity of Australia's biggest power system — the national electricity market spanning the Eastern States — would have to triple in size by 2030 to keep up with the country's net zero goals.
The authors found that on top of the need for capacity to replace retiring coal-fired generation, it would be necessary to match a massive increase in demand as more of the economy was powered by renewable energy rather than fossil fuels.
Scale 'hard to conceptualise'
o this end, the authors said there would have to be a "rapid rollout" of renewable energy, transmission lines, storage facilities such as batteries, electric vehicles and heat pumps at homes and businesses.
Michael Brear, a director at the Melbourne Energy Institute at the University of Melbourne and one of the report's authors, said the scale of the job ahead defied easy comprehension.
Ultimately, Professor Brear said trillions of dollars would have to be spent in Australia to upgrade and expand the grid and replace lucrative fossil fuel export industries such as coal and gas with clean substitutes such as green hydrogen.
Last year, Australia's exports of coal and liquefied natural gas were worth more than $200 billion.
"We are really just trying to paint a picture of what net zero actually means on the ground for all Australians," Professor Brear said.
"We're not taking a position on which route to getting there is better or worse or more or less plausible.
According to Professor Brear, gas-fired electricity would play a limited but critical role in keeping the power system stable and the transition to renewable energy at a lower cost.
He said while green sources such as wind and solar power backed by batteries and pumped hydro storage would provide the bulk of Australia's energy needs by the end of the decade, there would be instances when this was not enough.
Gas capacity up, output down
In such circumstances, he said gas-fired power plants would provide crucial "firming" services to ensure supply could meet demand at peak times.
"Our results show that we need more gas turbines but we operate them much less frequently than we do today," he said.
"There are periods across the year when there's not enough wind and not enough sun and not enough storage to do the task.
"So, the gas-fired generation kicks in at those periods.
"The total amount of energy generated from natural gas generation falls considerably, but the assets that provide that power are called on at times to provide very considerable power.
"The greenhouse gas emissions associated with that natural gas generation falls considerably."
Tim Buckley, a leading renewable energy advocate and director at Clean Energy Finance, said the report's findings were credible.
Mr Buckley agreed gas would continue to be used as a fuel to generate electricity at times of peak demand, which typically occurred during extreme weather in summer and winter.
"We will see a progressive shift from gas base-load power generation to gas peakers," Mr Buckley said.
"Increased capacity does not equate to increased generation because what they're really stressing is we need to have grid reliability.
"Batteries will increasingly deliver the short to medium-term duration storage.
"But gas peakers provide a degree of reliable, predictable firming capacity."
Clean exports 'greatest opportunity'
Longer-term, Mr Buckley said the switch to electric vehicles would help stabilise Australia's power system by providing what amounted to a giant battery spread out across the country.
In the meantime, he said Australia's tough electricity reliability standards would underpin the need for gas-fired electricity to provide a safety net for supplies.
Despite this, he suggested that emissions from Australia's gas-fired power players would plummet and that pollution from proposed new gas developments would dwarf anything caused by peaking plants.
"Let's face it, at the end of the day most gas peakers in Australia run 1 or 2 per cent of the time," he said.
"One or two per cent of the time means that the emissions in aggregate are very minor."
Professor Brear said it was imperative that Australia capitalised on the export opportunities presented by decarbonisation given that demand for the country's fossil fuels would inevitably fall away.
Doing so, he said, could support Australia's prosperity for generations.
"Arguably, our greatest contribution to the global decarbonisation task — because decarbonisation only really has meaning in a global sense — is to clean our exports as well as clean our domestic energy system," Professor Brear said.
"It's an immense task.
"But the world is a big place and there's a lot of money outside Australia, and there's a lot of expertise outside Australia to help us do these things."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-19/australias-energy-transition-need...
stunet wrote:bonza wrote:It’s from 2007 guy. And it was an attempt to show andy Mac that the fossil fuel industry are not and have never been pro nuclear. In fact the origins of anti nuclear positioning can be traced back to the funding of the Friends of the Earth greenies by the petrochemical barrons. I wonder why?
Remember to breathe guy..Yeah, I don't think it's as easy as that. My hunch, and that's all it is, is that invested people are running the nuclear power line knowing it hasn't a hope in Hades of getting up.
I mean, where's Matt Canavan and his protestations?
He dons black face every time someone starts up a Tesla, solidarity with the brothers up in Bowen, but not a peep about nuclear putting them out of work?
Why...?
Because he knows, as most everyone else does too, that a nuclear industry will never happen.
It perhaps should happen, but reality being the bitch it is, and Australians both hating change and loving their backyards means it won't.
Of course you are spot on. As energy and emissions reduction minister in 2019 Angus Taylor rode the "will we, wont we" position on lifting the nuclear moratorium as another good example. Cynical political posturing designed to distract and delay progress in emission reductions. Its depressing. Its SOP for the coalition.
And yes. The costs based on the modelling even if you take into account the disputed varied estimates $ per kw provided in the 2018 CSIRO report and discussed in the 2019 "Report of the inquiry into the prerequisites for nuclear energy in Australia", still favour renewables overwhelmingly. What those estimates don’t include and this is where I am even more outside my comfort zone is the extended grid connection costs and subsidies. Even still I have seen figures that account for the former that still significantly shade the Nuc cost estimates.
But economic prediction is fraught with danger and often wrong. GSCO - should I page you in here mate? Lol.
I think eventually Nuclear energy generation will happen in Australia. Too late to make a difference to the 2050 net zero targets that will fail, the pending loss of habitat, lower grid reliability (not for the wealthy of course, who will ride out it out with more petty cash capital outlay on batteries and panels - you'll be fine andy mac & Guy - how many houses guy? 2?), regional landholder trauma & resistance, and new forecasted / budgeted and paid for (Not you Guy - the tenants mate) upwards costs of transmission lines and compensation.
Despite certain ideologically constrained commentators here, broader attitudes are changing on the subject as the arguments (despite the economics) overwhelmingly favour the inclusion of Nuclear as PART of the solution. Which is my position.
This is becoming harder for the so called greenies to argue against when they can't hide from such challenges as solar panel disposal, new mineral mining explosion required to source them and the fact that their 50 years of resistance to nuclear has helped facilitate the increase in greenhouse gas emissions. I count myself as one.
There is no sensible argument to keep the moratorium in place. If the economics are that good then what is the renewable industry proponents worried about? Government subsidies? Distraction? Well that argument has been lost. Furthermore, new technology especially one that supports the global leading Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation in research SHOULD be subsidised with public money. Not just because of the how it benefits the world in leading science but because it provides our society and kids with aspirations and opportunities in STEM as well as supports regional communities who are/were formerly reliant on the FF industry for survival and who are currently questioning their future.
Phtt!
What we all know of power generation technology today will be obsolete soon enough and exponentially so in the renewable energy sector. E.g. my yoga teacher is a scientist at CSIRO and up until Abbott gutted the agency and the specific project was working on the development of polymer solar energy production. Imagine if you will any paintable surface being capable of delivering solar power! The technology could be decades away but that’s precisely my point, today’s wind, hydro, solar,wave, gas, coal, nuclear technology/generation will all be obsolete within our children or grandchildren lives. Look forward not backwards for solutions
Thanks Indo
I think I just mixed myself up :)
I was unaware we were building one and was just after a Start .
I know we rely on Coal in Melbourne and believe we have 2 still providing the bulk of our electricity . With these two old Stations working as before , a few off and a bit of Renewable , our Electricity prices have exploded and become unreliable , as U pointed out during our Hot Day .
In 2 numerous places 2 mention in Australia , there are Huge Gas Reserves .
One Gladstone can Supply ALL the Gas for fn Victoria's Regional Cities 2 have a Gas Plant and 24/7 Electricity at reasonable rates .
Three Gladstones or North West Shelfs , can feed Australia and Asia with Long Term Gas , guaranteed !
All could be built in 10 years .
Give me any other Energy Option that can do that , without causing a National Argument ???
I can't think of 1 !
Then we can have the Money that Norway and Qatar has to spend , on whatever we like .
In Australia atm , big Players like Woodside can't fn even look for a New Gas Field , let alone build ONE !
"...my yoga teacher is a scientist at CSIRO"
hahahaha....
No bagging economics pls
Copy that capatain :)
GuySmiley wrote:Phtt!
What we all know of power generation technology today will be obsolete soon enough and exponentially so in the renewable energy sector. E.g. my yoga teacher is a scientist at CSIRO and up until Abbott gutted the agency and the specific project was working on the development of polymer solar energy production. Imagine if you will any paintable surface being capable of delivering solar power! The technology could be decades away but that’s precisely my point, today’s wind, hydro, solar,wave, gas, coal, nuclear technology/generation will all be obsolete within our children or grandchildren lives. Look forward not backwards for solutions
The only reason that will happen is if they finally get Nuclear fusion to work, thats the energy holy grail, and has none of the negative's of Nuclear fission like waste or safety risk.
They have been trying for over 50 years though, but still spend big money trying to make it happen and have had progress in recent years.
Well done Indo .
This is the little Sun Suff !
They have not Spending Big Money on this , at all , though .
Musk has offered 100 Million , from memory .
On Renewables ( that are not as Renewable as this ) we spend Trillions .
This is where MOST of the Research Money should be invested .
When we Crack THIS Nut , we can forget we ever needed a fn Renewable .
Considered that the vaccine mandates were a legal breach of human rights, which led to immense pain and suffering amongst innocent people, I don’t think that one of the only outfits which argued against them receiving a few tax payers dollars is anything to get upset about.
From Andy Mac’s link:
“ Antic has used Whitestone’s services for social media content, as well as “copywriting and design” related to a “vaccine mandate” campaign. In 2021, the senator voted for a One Nation anti-Covid vaccination mandate bill, contrary to the Coalition government’s own aged care vaccine mandate, and has a freedom pledge opposed to mandatory vaccination on his website. His invoices totalled $27,639, while Stoker submitted one for $3,300 in April 2022.”
It says so much about the unrelenting gas lighting the Guardian pushes that it still mentions being anti- vaccine mandate as though it’s a character slur.
The Guardian is pure filth.
Slackjawedyokel wrote:Considered that the vaccine mandates were a legal breach of human rights, which led to immense pain and suffering amongst innocent people, I don’t think that one of the only outfits which argued against them receiving a few tax payers dollars is anything to get upset about.
From Andy Mac’s link:
“ Antic has used Whitestone’s services for social media content, as well as “copywriting and design” related to a “vaccine mandate” campaign. In 2021, the senator voted for a One Nation anti-Covid vaccination mandate bill, contrary to the Coalition government’s own aged care vaccine mandate, and has a freedom pledge opposed to mandatory vaccination on his website. His invoices totalled $27,639, while Stoker submitted one for $3,300 in April 2022.”It says so much about the unrelenting gas lighting the Guardian pushes that it still mentions being anti- vaccine mandate as though it’s a character slur.
The Guardian is pure filth.
Always got The Australian as back up mate.
The Australian vs The Guardian
Neither have the interest of the Australian people as their priority. Both are poison. The only difference between one is poison with chocolate flavouring and the other is poison with strawberry flavouring. It’s the same poison tailored slightly to suit varying tastes to ensure everyone swallows it down.
Slackjawedyokel wrote:The Australian vs The Guardian
Neither have the interest of the Australian people as their priority. Both are poison. The only difference between one is poison with chocolate flavouring and the other is poison with strawberry flavouring. It’s the same poison tailored slightly to suit varying tastes to ensure everyone swallows it down.
Haha, I like the analogy.
Same as Lib versus Lab I guess, 2 wings of the same bird. Shit and and Shit Lite.
Pop Down wrote:Well done Indo .
This is the little Sun Suff !
They have not Spending Big Money on this , at all , though .
Musk has offered 100 Million , from memory .
On Renewables ( that are not as Renewable as this ) we spend Trillions .
This is where MOST of the Research Money should be invested .
When we Crack THIS Nut , we can forget we ever needed a fn Renewable .
You mean for nuclear fusion?
I watched this video last night at 11:20 says there is 30 companies working towards nuclear fusion (assume in the USA) and 3 billion dollars flowed into those companies in 13 months.
Biden's aim is to make it a reality within the next decade, but i think most suggest it wont happen before 2050
If it every happens :D
But they must be pretty confident that its possible putting so much time and energy into it.
BTW. I think you are thinking of Bill Gates, he has put money into Nuclear fusion as mentioned in above video, i was curious about musk, but all i can find is him dissing nuclear fusion
Indo
I saw this when the results were released months ago , the Nut has the slightest Crack and , when it really Cracks , the solution will seen so obvious and simple .
ZeroHedge was all over it .
This eats Hydrogen for breakfast lol .
Biden only aim is 2 get through a day .
How much money has he put into this Technology , f all !
3 b ? Ok , who 2 and what have they done with it ?
Probably Hunters Mates in the Ukrainian Energy Sector ffs .
How much Publicity and Effort has the President put into this ?
I asked for One Trillion dollars just a few days ago !!!
Took 60 Minutes 2 tell people ffs .
We should have every Scientific Group , like the CSIRO , looking Up and getting US a few Sun's here .
My guess is the nut IS Cracked , by 2030 .
Rolling out , 2039 ish .
Net Zero CO2 2050 , will then be a breeze to achieve !
Then all this CO2 worry can fn disappear and we can worry about something else .
Trillions are being spent of Trying to work out how to get a Solar Panel to work in low sunlight ffs .
It is all a temporary solution until we get 2 this .
U say IF , or maybe 2050 !
If we don't focus our efforts , like we are now , it MAY take till 2050 , to have the technology Rolling out .
A Never Ending supply of Power .
We ALL know the Power of ONE Atom .
Luckily , we know we can split one and NOT blow UP the entire world , Oppy did that experiment when we weren't watching ..
It was NOT Gates that has Offered 100 m $US .
Musk has put it on the table ( may have the number wrong ) .
Susan susan susan https://x.com/aaronsmith333/status/1763368461525463507?s=46
The Governments Energy Solution requires it 2 build , 40 Wind Farms Per Month .
Last year , only 3 , were built , due to Commonwealth Number Cruncher Delays .
Shit , I thought the numbers were not adding UP but , this is fn ridiculous .
I am speechless , our Electricity prices and Cost of Living pressures will SOAR in the next five years .
This IS Reckless FFS !
How many Big Solar Farms were built last year ?
40 per Month ?????
ONE Gladstone , can do it all and have left overs , 2 export !
Build it it 5 years ( second is always quicker than the first ) .
Those numbers ADD up 2 me and I am Crap at Maths !
Turn OFF the Air Con at Kirribilli , until Albo's numbers add up imho .
Supafreak wrote:Susan susan susan https://x.com/aaronsmith333/status/1763368461525463507?s=46
Just when you thought the Liberal Party could not go any lower up pops Sussan to prove us wrong.
The Police admitted they misidentified the offender.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-01/man-wanted-over-richmond-sexual-a...
A Salty Dog wrote:Supafreak wrote:Susan susan susan https://x.com/aaronsmith333/status/1763368461525463507?s=46
Just when you thought the Liberal Party could not go any lower up pops Sussan to prove us wrong.
The Police admitted they misidentified the offender.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-01/man-wanted-over-richmond-sexual-a...
They really are a group of odious individuals. The decent ones if there are any left must really have trouble sleeping at night.
Lying Nasty Party....
Hey salty and Macca
As we were debating our Energy Policy and our abysmal 3 Windmill Policy of Labor , how Australia's Future requires action to Reduce Cost of Living Pressures and possible solutions , U2 found this Tangent.
Very handy , Andy .
The woman I had never heard of , has an outrageous Election Slogan about Immigration ( a World Issue ) and is unwilling to back down .
Made me think about an old crusty Greta Thunberg Screaming , we are Burning the fn Planet .
The Slogan was perhaps taken off very OLD , Fish and Chip wrapper , in Queensland ffs ?
And U think it Crucifies your bogeyman , Voldy lol haha .
U guys are in Harry Potter Land and causing a Tangent Vortex haha lol .
In some spell , perhaps :) ?
Pop Down wrote:Hey salty and Macca
As we were debating our Energy Policy and our abysmal 3 Windmill Policy of Labor , how Australia's Future requires action to Reduce Cost of Living Pressures and possible solutions , U2 found this Tangent.
Very handy , Andy .
The woman I had never heard of , has an outrageous Election Slogan about Immigration ( a World Issue ) and is unwilling to back down .
Made me think about an old crusty Greta Thunberg Screaming , we are Burning the fn Planet .
The Slogan was perhaps taken off very OLD , Fish and Chip wrapper , in Queensland ffs ?
And U think it Crucifies your bogeyman , Voldy lol haha .
U guys are in Harry Potter Land and causing a Tangent Vortex haha lol .
In some spell , perhaps :) ?
Pop,
If energy is the the issue, at least the ALP have something resembling a plan.
The same cannot be said for the LNP.
Locally, people are really pissed off with those mobile Advance Billboards blocking traffic everywhere. And why would you park out front of the local Secondary College: the kids aren't old enough to vote.
A Salty Dog wrote:Pop Down wrote:Hey salty and Macca
As we were debating our Energy Policy and our abysmal 3 Windmill Policy of Labor , how Australia's Future requires action to Reduce Cost of Living Pressures and possible solutions , U2 found this Tangent.
Very handy , Andy .
The woman I had never heard of , has an outrageous Election Slogan about Immigration ( a World Issue ) and is unwilling to back down .
Made me think about an old crusty Greta Thunberg Screaming , we are Burning the fn Planet .
The Slogan was perhaps taken off very OLD , Fish and Chip wrapper , in Queensland ffs ?
And U think it Crucifies your bogeyman , Voldy lol haha .
U guys are in Harry Potter Land and causing a Tangent Vortex haha lol .
In some spell , perhaps :) ?
Pop,
If energy is the the issue, at least the ALP have something resembling a plan.
The same cannot be said for the LNP.
Locally, people are really pissed off with those mobile Advance Billboards blocking traffic everywhere. And why would you park out front of the local Secondary College: the kids aren't old enough to vote.
Zackly, at least Labor are trying something. LNP in govt for nearly a decade and left an absolute dogs breakfast of it. Either incompetence or deliberate, you choose.
I’m not buying spuds decision not to push in the naming of the former MP , if it was a Labor MP spud would be pushing as hard as ever and wouldn’t let up for a second , what’s changed spud ? Hmmmmm https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-01/asio-warns-naming-traitor-politic...
bonza wrote:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-29/renewable-approval-delays-slowing...
"Only three wind farms were connected to the power grid last year. Here's what's holding up Australia's clean energy transition."
Thats interesting seems from that, that its in part to state governments that are slowing down "approval and assessment of clean energy projects"
9.5 years to get a wind farm through is way to long, the rate of 2.5 years for solar is much more reasonable
It is surprising though because for many years at least Australia per capita had the fastest uptake rates in the world (not sure how we compare now) but in 2019 era under LNP it was 2.5 faster than the next country Germany.
"Australia is the runaway global leader in building new renewable energy"
https://theconversation.com/australia-is-the-runaway-global-leader-in-bu...
https://iceds.anu.edu.au/files/renewable-energy-target-report-september-...
We have for quite some time also per captia had the fastest uptake rate of solar.
"Australia again tops global solar per capita, as world installs 240GW of PV in 2022"
https://reneweconomy.com.au/australia-again-tops-global-solar-per-capita...
And we have the most solar per capita in the world, and most roof top solar per capita
https://reneweconomy.com.au/australia-now-has-nearly-1kw-of-solar-per-ca...
And in 2022 we rated number four per capita for renewable energy overall, with a nice even balance between solar and wind, but im sure if that wind farm approval was much faster we would be pushing higher.
https://re100.eng.anu.edu.au/2023/05/12/unstoppable-growth-solar/
So really despite a lot of the typical negativity we have done quite well, our problem has always been being so reliant on coal we didn't have any real base of carbon free energy in much hydro and no nuclear like many developed countries to build on.
So Labor at leat HAVE a plan , to build 40 Windies a month and Indo says We are doing quite well to install 3 , in 12 months and lead the way in Solar .
Shit , maybe I should fn relax haha .
Albo would be so pissed @ 3 Windmills .
Apparently , a lot of the Sites had Unforeseen fn problems .
One was perfect , but Bob Brown moved into the area .
Another , the PM's Mother In Law's brother , has a place next door .
Another was ruled out after finding a dog bone that looked like Dingo .
The Great spot in Bunbry is taking longer than expected , the scale version electrocuted everyone when they attached the wires in seawater .
Another in Bowen could not be built , as every hole they dug in the ground deeper that 3 meters , found fn GAS . If we put a Windmill on it , we MIGHT send it to the fn Moon .
Installation is delayed too , the Instruction Manuals to Install them are all in fn Chinese .
In Australia , Oppositions don't have to Win an Election , Governments Loose them .
The Government has lost its Energy Plan and had better find it AND Implement it very soon .
How did the by election go ?
Albo mentioned Voldy , more than his local member haha .
Saying Voldy is SCARING too many people haha lol .
He sure scares SN 2 :)
Pop I think you're confusing 'wind farms' with 'wind turbines'.
Go read it all again.
Hey Stu
I am sure confused and as have a Dutch background , so not sure re Wind Mills , or Solar Farming :)
The Numbers are enough for me to know Australia's Energy Policy is a Mess .
If there IS an Sustainable Plan , it is NOT being implemented !!!
If these Turbine turbo things , can help , we SURE are not building them ( why NOT ) .
How many Huge Solar Turbiny Mega Farms were built LAST year ???
What should I read again ?
I am a Gas man , remember !
I do declare , I don't like an Energy Future for Australia that includes Wind .
Like Nuclear Waste , I just can't LIKE it .
I watched closely the development of Solar Panels and I loved it , very clever .
Seen areas covered with them and a little fence to house them and block off the view of them .
Stick them anywhere !!!
I have seen a Bank of Wind Turbines working , on the Hume .
The Wind mills are Very impressive technology . Spinning much faster , than I would think , with the wind available .
Today am wondering , how many homes , can a Bank of 20 Turbines look after ?
10000 ?
A Village of Solar Farms sits on the ground .
Out of the way of my eyesight and birds flight paths .
A Wind Mill sits up on a fn hill , looking out of place ( no one lives in it ) and spinning around , not doing much generating ffs .
They are 50 meters high and look Space age but are a VERY Old idea , mutton dressed as lamb .
I have seen and read , more than enough on this Fake Renewable .
Its a waste of time and beautiful Australian Space !
The Chinese can build and install them , like nuclear and Coal .
We have Gas , this wind , is like a ugly smelly shitty fart that kills our Native Birds imho :)
I wonder , why we bother using it .
Is it to Look good re Climate Change , one of the good CO2 guys , or is there some motive I just can't work out ?
We don't HAVE 2 use it !
If Wind Turbines were efficient , Toyota would have ONE installed on EVERY fn Car they produce .
It would Pop Up , every time the car goes over 60k/h !!!!
The numbers are a fn nightmare and Energy WILL be an Election Issue .
I dont know why people have such an issue with wind turbines, yeah sure you wouldn't want one in your literal backyard like your wouldn't want many thing's in your backyard, but IMHO they are fine in farmland even on the coast away from homes.
Kinda sucks they kill birds, but every energy source has down sides, life is just like that most things have upsides and downside's.
Wind is just as important as solar for a good energy mix, solar has its place but wind has the big advantage of being able to produce energy at night orduring shorter winter days.
It's all about having a diverse energy mix and not putting all the eggs in oner basket.
BTW. this is cool, a map showing all Australia's wind farms and ones under construction.
https://reneweconomy.com.au/large-scale-wind-farm-map-of-australia/
Hey Indo
I looked at your map , maybe a 100 Wind Farms ??
Shit , that's not what Labor thinks needs to built in 3 months ffs .
Put 2400 blobs on your map .
That is 5 years of what Labor Plan to build ( no chance lol ) to secure Australia's Energy Future .
It will be an ugly map , am guessing !
Saudi Arabia have just Oil .
It's all over their country , in numerous seperate Fields .
Oil can be Sold , every day , 2 numerous buyers .
Saudi's Economy is Built on ONE Energy Source as it is the BEST ONE they have .
They are fn sitting on it , it's just waiting to be taken out of the ground with a few Wells , easy stuff to do .
Just like where our Gas is sitting !!!
They are VERY happy and Wealthy ( so are their Native Eagles ) keeping ALL their Eggs in the Oil Basket !
They are Safe and have really cheap Electricity prices and are growing .
So mate , why should we have a Wind Mill , again , I am confused , again ?
U might like the look of them , I think they are a blight on our Wonderful landscape .
I think , now , even Bob Brown , agrees with me :)
^^^ haha two blokes of Dutch heritage discussing the merits of modern day windmills that happen to generate power, nice discussion ~ carry on chaps :)
Hey Smiley
It is ridiculous and am happy u are enjoying the Irony of my Chat with Indo lol .
I am like Don Quixote , thinking I am fighting a Giant and it's an Indo Dutchy in a Windmill .
A Wind Mill looks like the Old Power Lines to me , Ugly Dragon type Beasts , that need 2 B Slain with a Lance .
Must look like Laurel and Hardy , 2 you :)
Enjoy your day :)
I had better go outside and have a hard look at myself , again :)
“ … Must look like Laurel and Hardy , 2 you :) .”
Not at all Pops, just saw the funny side of it all. Not that I’m following the discussion closely but hoping issues like the decade long LNP policy hostility/ambivalence to renewables and the critical infrastructure (power lines) needs are getting at least a passing mention in the discussion. Cheers
Global reserves critical earth minerals vs processing.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/critical-mineral-maps-2024
Pop Down wrote:Hey Indo
I looked at your map , maybe a 100 Wind Farms ??
Shit , that's not what Labor thinks needs to built in 3 months ffs .
Put 2400 blobs on your map .
That is 5 years of what Labor Plan to build ( no chance lol ) to secure Australia's Energy Future .
It will be an ugly map , am guessing !
Saudi Arabia have just Oil .
It's all over their country , in numerous seperate Fields .
Oil can be Sold , every day , 2 numerous buyers .
Saudi's Economy is Built on ONE Energy Source as it is the BEST ONE they have .
They are fn sitting on it , it's just waiting to be taken out of the ground with a few Wells , easy stuff to do .
Just like where our Gas is sitting !!!
They are VERY happy and Wealthy ( so are their Native Eagles ) keeping ALL their Eggs in the Oil Basket !
They are Safe and have really cheap Electricity prices and are growing .
So mate , why should we have a Wind Mill , again , I am confused , again ?
U might like the look of them , I think they are a blight on our Wonderful landscape .
I think , now , even Bob Brown , agrees with me :)
Dont get me wrong, im not against exporting gas or even coal as long as the demand is there or green hydrogen.
But in regard to producing our own energy, we need to reduce emission's so coal has no future, gas has a future for some time in supporting renewables, nuclear is great but doesn't make economical sense, hydro is limited in Aust due to lack of water/snow.
But we do have lots of sun and lots of wind, so solar and wind make sense.
I personally dont mind the look of wind farms when away from residential areas, and my understanding is animals can still be farmed around them? so not wasted land and it gives farmers an alternative income stream if leasing out land or other deals.
I do find it weird that they are putting them off shore though, even without land cost it kinds seems expensive to set up and a harsh environment so you would expect high maintance, i do get why some might oppose offshore wind farms, id much rather see them lining windy coastal farm land than be offshore..but each to their own.
I love wind turbines….simple, effective and beautiful in their own way…bring em on I reckon and make them here in Australia as they are easy to make.
I doubt they affect birds much…they’d have to be real slow birds.
Fascinates me when people want alternate energy but whinge about turbines.
Ok Indo
Us Cheese Heads ( I am half ) will have 2 disagree on Windmills .
How many Wind Turbines will be built this year , 9 ?
We just had over 700000 new arrivals in Australia and U think we need to Reduce using Coal and Gas and eventually , I assume , turn them off .
Indo , its not right to Sell all our coal ( and Gas , U308 , Hydrogen , Fe , Cu , Rare Earths ) to Asia and let THEM Emit CO2 and make poor Australians pay high electricity prices and NOT use it .
It doesn't make sense !
That is a completely different debate !!!
The Energy that can work 24/7 is NOT the fn back up !!!!
The Renewables need 2 B Melbourne's Back Up .
Like our Water and Desalination Plant !
Our City of nearly 4 Million people , Never Shuts Down !
Our current Energy Policy WILL , eventually , Turn off Melbourne .
Then Australian might take notice of us down here ?
The lights will be off .
Amazing , I now think our current Energy Policy , basically outlined by Indo , does make sense .
We sell all our valuable materials OS , and we continue 2 use the Money 2 keep the current and NEW Energy Players Fat .
The Miners compete with OS miners ,are well regulated , as they are the money makers and have to share .
The Money Spenders are MUCH less regulated and don't compete , of course , they share Cost increases quickly .
The Whole System ( from start to finish ) will continue on it's merry way .
The Numbers add UP 2 them .
Impervious 2 change or analysis , as held together by ALL recent governments , so far .
Just 2 hard and 2 much 2 change , I now think .
Dunkley's Deadly Cost of Living Mardi Gras Birthday Bash
Albo Birthday Wish : "2nd Fav Jodie to Win"
"Average By-swing against Govt is 7.1% we hold seat by 6.3% > Says! Can do Maths, it's Pretty easy!"
https://www.9news.com.au/national/polls-open-in-crucial-dunkley-byelecti...
Controversial Title chose itself Sudden death of ALP Minister {rip} + Albo's Birthday!
Exactly wot we're hearing from afar > Deadly Birthday Bash Cost Blow Out proves too costly for ALP.
Dunkley was [L] 1996-2019
Recent Oz/Vic Polling
[L] Oz / Vic Polling peaked Dec/Jan 2024
ALP Oz / Vic Polling rose but since Voice Reffo sliding 1% / month
2022 Election Vic Primary ALP 33.1% [L] 32.9% (alp +10% > -10%) 2023/24 alp 34% = [L] 34%
2022 Election Vic 2PP ALP 54.8% [L] 45.2% > (alp +10% > -10%) 2023/24 alp 55% (vs) 45%
Dunkley Voice Reffo (Turning Point) : No 55.8% Yes 44.2%
Dunkley Polls (Note Chambers of Commerce > Press Ratepayers back [L] Mayor Candidate)
Former Vic Premier begged Vic [L] supporters to bankroll Wealthy [L] Mayor @ Peak Vic Poll Hour
Dunkley Polls Feb chronological order...
Primary [L] 39% alp 40.0% > 2PP [L] 48% alp 52% (Ai) 626
Primary [L] 40% alp 33.0% > 2PP [L] 51% alp 49% (YouGov) 394
Primary [L] 37>38% alp 34>31.5% > 2PP [L] 47.5>50% alp 52.1>50% (2x RM) 1,706 > 1,682
Primary [L] 35% alp 30.0% > 2PP [L] 48% alp 47% (Essential) 1,105
2nd March Green Ant pre poll invasion (Final Assault!)
https://antonygreen.com.au/dunkley-by-election-tracking-the-early-vote/
By-elections downhill slide >
Aston 2022 : 92.5% > By-election 85.6% > Reffo 93.14%
Fadden 2022 : 86.54% > By-election 72.5% Reffo 86.99%
(Fadden is [L] SuperYacht Golf Club > Pay Flash Mobs to sanitize any stinky ALP Booth )
Dunkley 2022 : Fed Election 90.1% > Reffo 90.85%
Green Ant Bully : Pre Poll turn out % was less each day until Fridays it Skyrocketed.
Apathetic Voters feel at last minute they're obliged to vote...re: Fri > Fri ...End of Poll Day Sat...(FFS!)
If yer in this electorate & wanna Vote Today > Go now > Sooner the better > Avoid end of world panic!
Qldurr (Oops!) : Ignore That > Vic Polls just closed
Be similar to Reffo...present as low turnout until dregz backwash a slightly apathetic turnout tally!
https://antonygreen.com.au/dunkley-by-election-tracking-the-early-vote/
Birthday Bash Invites
ALP are hiding their Brand > Goin' on Dutto Attack > [L] Mayor = Rates Rage
Crew will know Albo has been blasting Dutto in Parliament (Slam Dunkley Birthday Wish!)
[L] Azzawoman Reffo Rapists > ADVANCE Mobile Billboard Shadows
+ Exploiting [L] Mayoral Influence for Premium Access.
Tbb recently revealed All Premiers / PM opposition Leader's were not elected by Parties.
Incredibly many not elected by anyone at all & yet they slot Stasis Cubes in our Star Chamber!
18th Nov Frankston Mayor elected by "Special Dad'n'Dave o/n Council Meeting"
https://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Council/News-and-media/Latest-News/Medi...
14th Frankston Mayor wins [L] Fed Seat endorsement while serving as Mayor WTF?
2x Mandated Unnamed [L] sources secret Closed Door Ballot...tidbits...
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/popular-frankston-mayor-wins...
16th Jan Frankston Mayor Nathan Conroy takes Leave to have a bob each way at Fed Supa Upgrade!
23rd Unpaid Mayor promises not to exploit Civic Resources + hands over Reigns to Dad's O/S Grom...
29th Jan : Frankston Council Meeting with No Mayor or Deputy Mayor ...'This fuckin' [L] Bullshit!'
5th Feb : Frankston Councilors had no warning of [L] Stunt..
Calls for self appointed [L] Dodgy Bros Mayor & Deputy Mayor to Fuck off after Abandoning City Duty!
https://baysidenews.com.au/2024/02/05/leadership-crisis-damaging-council/
Please share how this Dad'n'dave Electoral Rort works > Just nominate Bully to boss then Shit on City.
No offence : But self appointed Frankston Mayor can't speak English yet appoints role to o's rep? WTF!
C'mon folks...Why can't any Oz [L] Mayors speak English...where are the cameras...are we the Joke!
Frankston has No Mayor No Deputy Mayor & No Fed Member...Is it possible to feel sorry for a Vic City?
How the Fuck does AEC & Pollies sanction this Madness...
Why would any Civic minded people Vote for world's least caring most greedy self appointed Pollie!
Polls reckon Townsfolk are queuing to do just that!
AEC pay bills to lease self appointed [L] Mayor's Civic Vote Hubs (How does this Work?)
Does AEC get a discount by allowing Team [L] Campaign Ads / Staff in Dodgy Bros Dad'n'Dave Booths?
We all clearly see self appointed [L] Mayor's teams exploiting & bossing #1 Civic Hub Foyers...
AEC are #1 Customers on self appointed [L] Mayor's Pay Role!
Should ALP Lose expect > Civic Protest
Ask! How the Fuck can a self appointed [L] Mayor exploit Civic priority to milk a Supa Fed Upgrade!
Pretty sure ya gotta stand down (Resign) before ya rort yer own Pollie Upgrade
Elected Goldie [L] Mayors rorted this fake stand down shit > All said it was not on...so Wotz Changed!
Surely was & still is highest breach of Local Govt Electoral Powers + surely a Jail-able offence!
Bad enough elected Goldie Whiteshoes rorted this..Vic [L] Stooge Mayor now banks AEC cheques!
[L] Mayor's Mass Rorted Breach by pimping out his pirated [L] rorted AEC inner sanctum.
Once again...likely only 100% neutral non voter would notice or least care...just saying this is well suss!
It's okay TBB, looks like the good peeps of Frankganistan get to keep their Mayor. The green ant has called it. 3.4% swing not enough.
Blackers Called it...Live Now! Happy Birthday Mr PM.
Less than 50% Votes counted...
(Update!) Green Ant calls it > ALP Birthday Boy's Party claims Victory...
[L] VIP Lost their Core Right Wing Power Base...Dutto got his arse kicked!
Polls show [L] % Rise (Cough!) Sure! Crumbs from big fat Loser Right Vote
tbb rolls out 2022 > 2024 below...crew can clearly see where Right Vote collapsed.
2019 Scomo Correction cancelled out by 2023 Voice Correction.
Dutto lost the unlosable By-Election with all powerful evil 3x [L] Mayor...that's gotta hurt!
Totally Pist Lib Punk Sussan : "We're coming after Birthday Boy!" (Nope! Not Punk enough Sussan!)
Dodgy Fake Mayor that aborted his City for dead cert is having a 2nd Child > 1 extra [L] Vote ( Maybe!)
Fake [L] Victory Party is just plain sad...[L] brand has Peaked...Dutto blew his best chance!
Green Ant Bully's soggy Dunkley Dunk
Green Vote peaked with Rental Crisis then dropped off 3% with switch to Palestine focus.
2022 (Dunkley Primary Left Voters) Lost 0.33% Left Vote to Independents
party 2022........2024
ALP 40.23%.....40.30% (Alp held ...perhaps may Improve Vote in...By-Election...rare?)
GRN 10.34%....06.90% (Bled votes to New Left Party Struggle upsurge)
Socialists ..........01.54% ( Small left Parties hoovered up Green Vote)
Dems..................01.50%
Combo................09.94% + alp .07 = 10.01/ 10.34% (Nuthin' in it...no tears shed!)
2022 (Dunkley Primary Right Voters) 2024 = 3.8% Drop
party 2022........2024
LNP 32.50%.....39.40% (Sadly All + % votes are from own 10.38% Right Parties)
UAP 05.06%....00.00%
ONP 02.81%....00.00%
LDP 02.51%.....00.00% (Possibly [L] Dems merged with Retro Dems...be worth checkin'!)
Mass Combo.....10.38% > LNP 2024 Failed to Mop up 3.8% of own Right Wing Votes
These Right Parties are not campaigning in 2024 By-Election
10:38% (Combo Vote should flow to 2024 Libs) It didn't...Right Vote Slumped to less than 2022.
Going Backwards they are...but they won't see it, nor admit it...sell more poison they must! Toast!
Nice analysis TBB. Interesting movements at the periphery.
Cheers Blackers...sad that Qld non voter gets off on Corrupt Vic By election..
Salute Vic Voters for not buying Dutto's Poison elixir.
Sure! That surprised Birthday boy more than any!
Albo : "WTF! Have to break some more promises!"
"Hey Jodie! Negative Gearing sure sounds like a nice Vow that Married ALP Couples can break!"
Looked like them Frankensteins would kick the corpse aside & follow [L] Mayor to the Gates of Hell.
Wow! You Vics are are all Class...can see that Now! Real Posh Bastards! Like...Shit Matters!
We Qldurrz sure the fuck would Vote for yer Dodgy Mayor more than 3x maybe even 4 times!
Ok! [Pause] tbb just tripped over another Electoral Anomaly!
Crew can read how these swellnet exclusives cloak tbb like a cheap suit...
Just by reviewing this By-Election coughs up another exclusive electoral anomaly...can't help it!
This One!
Feds mandate Highest Voter turnout to Elect Govt Leader that never survives to run a 2nd term!
Council's laze Lowest Voter Turnout but Mayors wear out several elections until Hell freezes over!
Please Explain Why Pauline is elected forever and ever with less votes each outing...(All fucked up!)
We Qldurrz be like them Russian's drinking the bath tub brew before it ferments.
Soaking in it...like a XXXX Wave Pool Bully...Wot! Has the Comp started, has it!
You'll be right mate...just be sure to leave the plug in...tbb's turn next!
"We decide who Governs Straya!" All in this Together!
Ok TBB
Not sure what 2 say about your recent posts , all a bit WTF .
Seems U think we are different in Victoria than U guys up north .
Our voting of Dan , probably proves it 2 U .
The Uneducated Ones , perhaps ?
Gee , something really seems Rotten in the State of Denmark !
Seems U guys are happy .
A good win for Albo and his corrupt ( it seems from u ) Major , lets C if it can get him going .
Pop, his point was the Liberal candidate was the current sitting Mayor of the main town in the electorate. Stood aside but didn’t resign. Got funding for both role as Mayor and wannabe Fed candidate. He also noted the results show a basic stasis, “left” v “right” numbers relatively unchanged, The Liberal swing was mainly at the cost of the right aligned fringe parties. The anomaly was the Greens lost votes compared to the Federal election, probably due to anti Morrison protest votes returning to their natural home, see results for Mt Eliza.
The fact that Dutton stayed home on the day speaks volumes. Susan Ley doubling down on the dog whistling compounds a bad look.
TBB
U are bloody right , we are different in Vic , 2 the rest of Australia .
Not sure what hick town in Qld , U live in , but Melbourne IS Victoria .
Our mighty City has 75% of Victorias population and its growing .
Our City is , arguably , the Worlds Greatest example of People of different Nations , getting along very well .
Despite our Political Leaders like Dan and Sally Crapp , our City keeps thriving .
A Centre for Australian Art and Medical Innovation .
We are VERY different 2 ALL of U , up North .
Everyone , seems 2 want to come and live down here , check the surf , its ok .
TBB , U seem very connected to the Internet .
Mate , come down here , we are not The Uneducated Ones .
I really hope Albo can find some Mojo and start doing stuff , NOW .
We really need some good political Leadership , down here .
We will still grow , despite their lack of help .
Hey Blackers , I was confused re some stuff . Thanks for clearing my fog , cheers ! Not sure who was able 2 speak English either haha .
Maybe , Victoria should , like WA , think about going our OWN way , we are different 2 the rest of U ?
“ Pop, his point was the Liberal candidate was the current sitting Mayor of the main town in the electorate. Stood aside but didn’t resign. Got funding for both role as Mayor and wannabe Fed candidate. …”
The Libs have form in this regard in this electorate. Former Lib member for Dunkley and minister for small business Bruce Billson running a small business consultancy as a side hustle in the last election he contested - much conflict of interest saw him censured by parliament. A disgrace. The next election the Libs ran god bothering Chris Crewther who now sits in the state parliament as a key backer of RWNJ Moria Deeming who is suing her own leader for defamation.
I should add if there is one thing that unites the people of Frankston it’s a hatred of its development at all costs Council so the Libs had no hope.
Might as well put this up in the politics subforum, to spare the front page. It's 18 months away or so, but here we go.
This is how Dutton wins:
https://www.afr.com/politics/enter-the-liberal-party-working-class-heroe...