Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

Further to my comments about the dangers of Marxism, my question is: in a government heavy-system aimed towards equal distribution, how do we ensure people retain their individual rights & capacity to select? Perhaps a merit system would work:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-31/chinas-social-credit-system-punis...

But reading this article, perhaps not.

........... fair analysis yocal but there is also the issue of him having a relationship with a prostitute while his wife was pregnant. Not illegal but immoral.

Depends on the nature of their marriage BB.

Agree Andy,
but to prop up Blindboy's concern: if it is indeed adultery and non-consensual (ie: infidelity) it is a biblically significant departure from moral integrity. And one that I am surprised Blob is hesitant to condemn as not acceptable to any degree if it were found to be true. And where I am surprised at Blob, is that to me it is very worthy of caution around trusting the man's general integrity at the least. (unless say, he has somehow redeemed himself in his marriage commitment since then).

If it's not, then its a pretty new agey approach to marriage, maybe even polyamorous :)

And while we are speculating, I don't reckon Trump is the kind of person who thinks it in his best interest to admit fault, so it is highly unlikely that he's redeemed himself. I can see a much more likely scenario where he denies and passes blame to everyone else around him.

A final scenario is that the marriage was based on a precondition that Trump would not observe the fidelity rule, and that it would be overlooked as there are other benefits to Melania in the contract that suit her. Sure, but therein exists a strange co-commitment to not observing and upholding the truth.

If you’re going to start defining people as trash and rejecting their possible contributions to society because they don’t subscribe to your particular narrow definition of morality , then you’re going to exclude some fine human beings from your life and from the world.

Out of the five concerns I listed why is the discussion only about the one least relevant to his capacity to govern?

"A final scenario is that the marriage was based on a precondition that Trump would not observe the fidelity rule, and that it would be overlooked as there are other benefits to Melania in the contract that suit her. "

Extremely common, but we're digressing here.

I would have thought it was entirely irrelevant to his capacity to govern , but you put it in your top five.

Every possible angle to try and diminish his credibility and that’s what you came up with.

I’m suprised you didn’t mention the size of his hands as you have previously. Fancy if Trump was a women and you started slanging off about the size of her body parts. There’s someone on here that would explode with rage at the sexism . Oh , wait ....that would have been you .

Strange how you put” appeasing enemies “ as a negative after buttering up people’s opinions on the Chinese for the past day.

"Fancy if Trump was a women and you started slanging off about the size of her body parts."

Pretty sure I have never done that.

"Every possible angle to try and diminish his credibility and that’s what you came up with."

So where are your rebuttals?

Just imagine if Trump started wearing women's clothing.
Now that's an image that isn't easily unscrambled ....

Rebuttals ?

Your complaints are either so inconsequential , subjective in their negativity or so plain incorrect they refute themselves. As for the claim of treason..
Please.

Staff quitting.....who gives a fuck . It’s a job. People leave jobs cause they don’t get along with co workers. How is that untoward ? Particularly a job in politics which , by its very nature , divides opinions. Sometimes irreconcilably.

Treason rating : 0/10

Alienating allies , appeasing enemies....Which allies are alienated ? Every single ally of the US would swallow a lineal metre of dick to keep them onside. You know why ? Because the US treats them very , very well. They sleep at night because they know the US is on their side. And they deserve to get a public reeming for not meeting their obligations to any mutual responsibilities. The rest is trade posturing. Get over it.

Remember when Bush changed the name from French fries to Frredom fries ? And what did the French do ? They sucked it up because they are better off for having the US for an ally.

Treason rating : 0/10

Appeasing enemies.....oh ,no ! You mean there’s less chance of a nuclear war with Russia now ! That’s really , really bad....WTF ?

Treason rating 0/10

Incoherent responses to questions....well hes given a pretty fucking coherent response when it counts. China , Korea , Russia ..more progress than the last 5 presidents combined.

Treason rating: 0/10

And the whole puritanical/ sex / morality quagmire you’ve gone swimming in ...Treason rating : Treason ? You’re fucking kidding right ?

An inquiry into treasonous behaviour by the President.
A revolving door of senior positions.
Alienating allies and appeasing enemies.
Evidence of gross sexual misbehaviour.
Incoherent responses to simple questions.

The more you write , the more obvious it is that you place more importance on the niceties of diplomacy and the thrill of oratory, than you do on just getting shit done.

Hey , that’s your thing . You’re welcome to it. But trying to convince me that a person’s opinions and unrelated capabilities are somehow diminished if charisma is lacking is never going to work.

Some of the most effective people I’ve ever known were proper blunt tools , zero nuance characters. But they got shit done , despite the sniping detractors who bemoaned their shortcomings.

You reckon Genghis Kahn gave pretty speeches like Obama ? Of course not . But he gave his people the fucking world.

Blowing I sure the communities/cities raised and butchered /raped by Genghis Kahn appreciated how he was doing good for his people.

Blowin = Seppophile

Well the treason o meter isn't all that useful anyway. Innocent until proven guilty right?

Blowin,
If there was no election meddling and conspiracy between Trump and Russia, I would be willing to further trust the alternative world order where the US and Russia become closer allies.

So my question to you would be:
If it was proven that election meddling and conspiracy existed between Trump and Russia, to the extent that Trump was helped into Power by Russians, would you be more skeptical of the relationship and NWO between Trump and Russia?

All hypotheticals, but I want to draw attention to the fact that it is possibly too early to confidently promote the change of heart between the US and Russia. And the truth, whatever it is, will prevail.

Blowin, the treason is being investigated by a Mr Mueller. You have said nothing about that, but he will have a lot to say fairly soon. Ubtil then here is the list of those passing through the revolving door. If you think that rate of change makes no difference to good management, I suspect that you have never been on a management team.
Jeff Sessions - Attorney General
Nikki Haley - Ambassador to the UN
Scott Pruitt - Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency
David Shuklin - Veterans Affairs Secretary
HR McMaster - National Security Advisor
Rex Tillerson - Secretary of State
Gary Cohn - Chief Economic Adviser
Hope Hicks - White House Communications Director
Rob Porter - White House Staff Secretary
Andrew McCabe - FBI deputy director
Tim Price - health secretary
Steve Bannon - chief strategist
Anthony Scaramucci - communications director
Reice Priebus - chief of staff
Sean Spicer - Press secretary
James Comey - FBI director
Micgael Flynn - national security adviser
Sally Yates - acting attorney general
Preet Bharara - New York Federal prosecutor
Paul Manafort - campaign manager

Yocal , I don’t give a rats arse whether Trump colluded or not . What’s the difference in the US/ Russian relationship ?

If it’s better , that’s a very, very good thing. The last few decades of Cold War were so fucked. Why would anyone want that to continue ? So what if it took two seedy fuckers and a sly dollar deal to smooth it over ? The world is a safer place for billions of people as a result.

The alternative to Trump / Putin is the continued threat of nuclear war with a side show of Sabre rattling proxy conflicts that cost thousands and thousands of lives.

I don t care how we got to this point , Im Just glad we are here. I really don’t get what the big deal is.

Anyway ....I reckon the entire collusion thing is a joke. For one , I think it’s a made up smear campaign.

Two years on , where is a SINGLE shred of evidence ? FFS , it’s getting to be like “ Making a murderer “. A flat out witch hunt encouraged by those with Trump derangement syndrome. ( apologies for the use of such a wank stain zeitgeist praise ).

Two fucking years !!

And nothing.

And you just know it’ll be referred to till the end of time.

BB , I don’t know who most of those people are and I don’t really care. Maybe some or most of them were treacherous snakes like that quivering lipped Comey piece of shit ? Who wants a duplicitous bastard like that lurking around the water cooler ?

Say what you like about management teams success or failure , but Trump has achieved virtually every single thing he promised during his election campaign.

Actions speak louder than words .

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trumps-list-289-ac...

Stu ...I’m furious at that accusation, it makes me want to bolt outside and scream profanities at the sky.

And I would , except I don’t want to fade my Stars and Stripes onesie.

Nah , I’m not a massive US fan. Their culture seems superficially similar, but it’s too fucking strange . Actually seems stranger because it lends itself to familiarity and then .....bang ! Something like the whole gun deal slams you in the face.

Their politics interests me not at all. I’ve sincerely only heard Trump actually speak less than a handful of times and I’ll leave the room as soon as it’s near me. I try reading the Federalist sometimes because there’s some amazingly different perspectives on there for an Aussie who just wants to waste their life playing in the sun. But it’s mostly dross.

I never read Seppo newspapers.

I like a lot of Septic entertainment though. They know how to do media.

As far as their foreign policies goes, unlike a lot of the world , we are way better off due to US power .

What about you , Stu ?

Pro Seppo or Anti Seppo ?

Blowin, look up Paul Manafort if you genuinely don't think there is any evidence.

"Their politics interests me not at all. I’ve sincerely only heard Trump actually speak less than a handful of times and I’ll leave the room as soon as it’s near me. "

So have you ever considered the possibility that taking no interest in their politics might be a handicap to actually understanding them?

Blowin,
I gather you believe in Democracy.

So, surely holding people to account and severely punishing them when they are found to be corrupting the system in a fundamental way is the cornerstone of retaining democracy and avoiding Totalitarianism?

For sure.

But at the moment , and for the last 24 months , it’s been NOTHING but slanderous accusations that wish to jeopardise any tenuous halt in the shit fight with Russia .

People want to find evidence, they’ll throw around false accusations that may put peace at risk just to get rid of Trump.

Even though it’s Trump that brought the peace.

Funny old world.

BB has spent the past 40 years staring with watery eyes and trembling hands at the doomsday clock , praying for safety . Now that it’s a bust and someone has made it irrelevant , he hates them with a passion usually reserved for child molesters. .....even though he’s granted BB his fantasy.

No , BB.

I’m not interested in their politics. I’m just interested in how they affect the world. Not giving a fuck to how they arrive at an outcome , does not prevent understanding of the outcome.

Maybe I’m being a bit dishonest, I understand the basics of what happens in the USA as a whole , but the domestic factions , red vs blue , gerrymander , staffing etc etc ...I don’t give a fuck.

Paul Manafort . Looked him up on Wiki.

Blah blah.

What is it you think he’s done ?

Or more appropriately, what is it that Trump has done and where is the proof ?

Don't worry Blowin, you might be deluded but they say fantasyland is the happiest kingdom of them all. Let's wait for Mr Mueller's report. It won't be long now. It is a bit much expecting me to do,your research as well as my own.

wherever you two live its clearly suffering from 30-50 knot onshores. get wet.

All good Guy I did a two hour session this morning and regrouted most of the bathroom this afternoon.

Men's shed in your area BB?

I have to ask: America, Britain and France are equipping Saudi for war - that's what weapons are for.
War against who?
Iran?

Not that I know of Guy. We are putting our place on the market so just some tidying up.

Presumably Peter. Yemen is just a practice run.

Judging by the clothes they wear and their penchant for ostentatious displays of wealth , I’d say it’s a war against good taste.

Grout faster BB !

Less Swellnet , more renovation.

Every post is costing you a few hundred dollars at the current rate of market deterioration !

You’ll struggle if you only walk away with $1200000.00 .

Breadline !

Ha ha, if that's an offer it's all yours!
https://www.stonerealestate.com.au/property/4599528-2-9-11-boronia-stree...

Nice pad BB

If you’re gonna play boutiques at least go all in blinder. Use your equity. Rent, get a place down south that the rent will cover, when it turns, play the game. A deluxe accountant of course.

Jeeze but, bit of a letdown the speaker positioning. Blurry binoculars? Each to their own.

I've only surfed on one Sydney beach ever. I was about 17 and had gone down to stay with my sister at her rental place next to the Spit bridge.
As it turned out Dee Why point was , well, at that time the biggest waves I had been out in. I don't actually remember catching a wave.
What I do remember clear as day was the guys out the back taking off right in front of the rocks!
Mind blown.

The agent repositioned stuff crypto including the speakers. If I had wanted to be a landlord I would have negative geared a property years ago.

Nice set up , BB.

You’re going to miss stink eyeing tourists as you saunter down to the point when you leave.

Haha. Negative gearing... sounds like a band name! Watch out for tire kickers! I made a killing in Ballina. Gun 'agents' are money in the bank. There's guns and guns but. Looks like a nice video anyway! I s'pose.

And watch out for them rocks!

And please don't let him position you strategically in the show through blinder. Not that God no... not that... posed shop window dummy leanin' on the speaker... not that blinder... please... for God's sake...

"Judging by the clothes they wear and their penchant for ostentatious displays of wealth , I’d say it’s a war against good taste."

Classic!

Nice place BB. I lived that close to the ocean once and the lifestyle if afforded me was priceless. Nothing like running down the beach for a quick 20 minute session before dinner.

Blowin,
Agree 24 months of pure speculation, fake news (in that the facts are manipulated to suit a building narrative in both leftwing and rightwing media).

So the narrative that I find most telling is that Mueller & Team have not made any public statements to the media whatsoever. There has been an entire 24 month period where his team has methodically responded 'no comment' to the media on both sides. So we get these funny waves of information - perhaps 2-3 weeks worth of speculation after Mueller's team release documents that are legally required to be open to the public (ie: Subpoenas and charges) but then the news dies off.

Where you see a 24 month period where no proof has arisen, and begin to believe there is no basis, I see a very methodical, meticulously managed investigative team that have not been tempted with speculation for 24 months, and instead are waiting to gather every single fact from every lead, so that they can be conclusive beyond reasonable doubt of the extent of Russian Meddling in the elections (regardless of who is involved).

Your view and mine are both credible and likely, so I am very cautious to discount one for the other.

I agree with most of that yocal. The problem with Trump's presumpiton of innocence, to which he is still entitled, is that he has behaved like a guilty man in so many different ways, from continuous claims that it is a witch hunt, to pressuring officials to drop the case. Even if he is found not guilty on collusion with Russia there is a strong case against him for attempting to pervert the course of justice.

So you think that an innocent man who has been accused and slandered for 2 years without charges laid or evidence provided, shouldn’t describe it as a witch hunt and pressure officials to cease such a witch hunt ?

The fact that you think this appears to be guilty behaviour displays just how much of a witch hunt it is.

Ie BB .....we accuse you of raping goats . We have no evidence to prove this accusation whatsoever. But we are going to keep repeating the accusations for 2 more years . If you protest your innocence or attempt to get us to cease these unfounded accusations it will be taken as a sign of guilty behaviour.

Goat fucker !

BB thinks There is a strong case for him perverting the course of justice!

So we accuse you of fucking goats , BB.

For 2 long years we blanket the media with sensationalised, fictional accounts of possible evidence and unfounded predictions of imminent guilty verdicts . You get upset at this. You protest your innocence.

We say this just makes you seem more guilty.

So you think , fuck this , and try to put an end to the slander and character assasination .

We think this proves you even more guilty . Despite their still being not a SINGLE shred of evidence that you made sweet love to a goat.

And then we try to ruin your life , get you sacked from your job and rejected by society because you’ve attempted to stop us from making false accusations.

Goat fucker !

I’m not sure I like your idea of justice, BB.

In fact i find IT quite perverted.

Yocal - it’s been 2 years. Trump is halfway towards potentially being voted out.

They’ve got fuck all on him. Pure fantasy.

The fact that they’d try to charge him with trying to defend himself illustrates exactly how political the whole thing is. It’s not about right or wrong , it’s about getting rid of him and they’ll try any devious means to unseat a democratically elected President because he’s not the President they want.

Throwing their toys out of the cot.

Talk about your fears for democracy. Shit like this is worse than the Whitlam debacle.

Time will tell Blowin. Why so emotional?

Not emotional, just frustrated that a guy as smart as you could act in such a fashion where you allow your political beliefs to override jurisprudence and the fact that you fail to respect democracy on such a shallow pretence.

Innocent until proven guilty means literally that. But in your eyes , Trump is guilty as fuck , they just haven’t proven it yet.

You’ve taken the exact same misstep of logic as every mindless lynch mob since the dawn of time.

And every single one of those mobs , who were blinded by their own beliefs, undertook the same thought process as you ....” Those other lynch mobs jumped the gun , I’ll give you that . But this time we’re right !”

And you’re so deluded and blinded by emotion, that you’ll still believe that there is ZERO chance that Trump is innocent no matter what ever comes of it. You’ll just put it down to a lack of evidence or corruption.

We’ve all been blinded by emotion and lost our self awareness, it’s just frustrating trying to talk sense to a person who’s in the thrall of it .

BB & Blowin