Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

Possibly. But more likely I have read numerous articles across a variety of media and come to the same conclusion as the US Justice Dept, that is there is sufficient evidence to justify an investigation. Nixon and Clinton were subject to the same process so it us not exactly revolutionary that a President's behaviour be investigated for possible criminality. Now, on a subject closer to my heart, God there were some fine looking goats in Scotland, long shiny coats, sleek, well fed, beautiful animals, but my feelings for them were purely platonic.

"it’s been 2 years. Trump is halfway towards potentially being voted out.

They’ve got fuck all on him. Pure fantasy."

How do you know for sure that above statement is true? (I agree the Media have' fuck all on him' but it is just as plausible that the actual investigation is continuing due to reasonable suspicion)
Would you agree that in that above statement you are speaking in the equal and opposite way that you accuse BB of? The truth I know for sure is that I don't know and I won't until some time after Mueller releases his findings, after the media turmoil, after the sentencing, after the truth brings everyone down around them. But until then i'm hesitant to draw conclusions (unless I was forced to make a decision based on judgement) altogether because what we have at present is a back and forth about what "seems to be true if you believe a left or right narrative of events" even though the truth hasn't yet prevailed in 2 years.

When Fox News list the evidence you know there was something going on.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-and-the-russia-investigation-what...

judging by the riff-raff in the forum below the article BB, it seems the verdict is still out. I'm OK with waiting.

Too true , Yocal.

Of course I’ve got no idea if he’s guilty or not. I just think that so many people are hot to get him and they want to do it Asap so as to limit his influence, that they’d get him now if they could. But they haven’t , so they won’t .

Guy - Myself and BB are actually very similar in our passion for issues and our sense of justice.

But even though we basically sit in the same zone with our attitudes ,we often sit on opposite sides of the fence on other topics.

He’s city ...I’m country.

He’s a man of the people ....I’m a man of nature

He’s wrong ....I’m right.

Swelleft and the UN, or Trump and Morrison....
....who is extreme and who is in line with the majority of public opinion?

"President Trump said at the body’s New York headquarters in September: “Migration should not be governed by an international body unaccountable to our own citizens.

“Ultimately, the only long-term solution to the migration crisis is to help people build more hopeful futures in their home countries. Make their countries great again.”
"Australia, Israel and Poland are among the latest to pull out, all citing national interest reasons".
"Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison remarked that the agreement is inconsistent with his nation's best interest, and that the document “fails to adequately distinguish between people who enter Australia illegally and those who come to Australia the right way”, noting the frequent observation that the paper does not differentiate between legal and illegal immigration."

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/11/22/world-follows-trumps-lead-na...

Mueller's political sham is being hyped by the same people that were hot to crucify Kavanaugh.
Here's lookin at ya.

“Ultimately, the only long-term solution to the migration crisis is to help people build more hopeful futures in their home countries. Make their countries great again.”

Does that mean Uncle Sam is going to stop bombing the fucking shit out of countries then?

ps nice work Felix ... err I mean Blowin.

Blob. Which international body 'governs' migration? What was he referring to?

A pact created under the auspice of the UN aka 'member states' aka 'countries' aka those 'accountable' to the people that voted for them.

Sign up or don't sign up....be accountable....man up....whinging that its all rogue and unaccountable because it doesn't reflect your preferential position only reflects that you as a nation didn't put much effort into it. That's the nature of the UN and how it produces stuff.

No, I am seppophile

The anti Americanism of the Australian Left is like
....a spoiled kid whining about how lame Disneyland is...
....a fundamentalist, secular article of faith that always paints America as the great Satan.
It's blaming a friend while excusing your enemies.
It's like saying the motor registry is superior to the apple shop
It's unearned intellectual snobbery.

It's doctrinal, selective, chip on shoulder, envious, blinkered, inferiority complex, small minded ingratitude is what it is.

Guysmiley

If America didn't drop bombs you'd be speaking Japanese

HappyasS
See the link

Yes. Hence my second post. His words reflect his continued disinterest in anything UN and/or diplomatic.

HappyasS

There is an enormous and justified cynicism for the UN.
It's like the ABC...a taxpayer funded progressive rort that should also be sacked.
And, as I said, many taxpayers don't think the UN should dictate our migration policy...or anything else.

Yocal

Re. Me not condemning Trump's adultery.
It's simple.
I reckon Trump and Hillary have both been pretty immoral, but Trump has better policies..
...and he has been constantly flayed by hypocrites, so why would I join in?.
I myself find it interesting that so many people who say a politicians sex life has nothing to do with competence and are otherwise permissive have become so puritanical just for Trump.
Wonder why.
I'm all for the voter having any reasonable information they want regarding the morality or competence of a candidate that puts themselves up.
If you are a candidate then your personal life is fair game and let the voters make an informed choice.
So if a politician is a Catholic, an adulterer or Gay or plays with toy trains or can fix an economy then I'd like to know the details before voting.
In Australia the press typically choose to not report on our politician's adulterous affairs.
So Gillard, Shorten and Hawk and a thousand others are pretty safe.
I'm guessing Swelleft support the hypocrisy
....cause Donald is different.

Couple of random things that soured me on seppophobia..

After the US had won WW11 they continued to sacrifice their precious blood and treasure for world peace.
While the communists were busy closing the Iron Curtain Young Americans were still dying airlifting hundreds of millions of tons of food and supplies to West Berlin.
Americans died feeding their recent mortal enemy while the USSR tried to starve them.
The left are so compassionate...
The nasty Americans then implemented the Marshall Plan....they financed the economic salvation of Japan and Germany.
What sort of a people repays Pearl Harbour by paying for the Japs to become the richest people in the world?
Seriously...?
Swelleft will drone on that it's all about self interest, but that inanity ignores the ever so subtle difference in the methods of self interest employed by the US and USSR.
Ask a South Korean how they feel about Americans getting involved in other people's wars.
I don't have a naive fundamentalist expectation of perfection in the foreign policy of a super power..... America isn't perfect, but in my world view the ripples of English and American exceptionalism are real and beneficial.
Hence our own historical, bipartisan pro American foreign policy.
The Greens and Swelleft are the extremist outliers on this.

.....and, just anecdotally, living in the States for some time led me to see so many Americans are nicer than the typical Australian

Well 31 Americans died during the Berlin airlift in crashes. None, to the best of my knowledge, were killed by Russian fire. As for the US winning the war, well who got to Berlin first? The Russians. Which nation lost the most soldiers? The Russians. Who accounted for 2/3rds of German casualties in the final battles? The Russians. If Hitler had not breached the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact the Third Reich would still be ruling all of what is now the EU. And why was Russia less inclined to forgive and forget? Well 27 million casualties might explain it, oh and they had been invaded from the west in the previous century also (Naploeon). A little knowledge is a dangerous thing comrades.
"Stand up all victims of oppression
For the tyrants fear your might"

............ Oh and one more minor point. The Japanese surrender was triggered at least as much by the fear of an imminent Russian invasion as by the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

"Mueller's political sham?" We'll soon see who has the last laugh on that and Mueller may turn out to have a few allies. Now the mid-terms have demonstrated that Trump's political capital is in free fall, he I'll no longer be able to count on the support of the Republicans. A large section of the party has never had any time for him but were ready to sell their souls, and any available body parts, for the chance to ram through their legislation and swing the Supreme Court out into Neo-Nazi territory. Once they see that Pence is potentially more electable it will be time to dump Trump.

Why would an impartial investigation need political allies ?

Was the investigation instigated to detect any impropriety or to merely get rid of Trump ?

Good to see you took in none of our conversation yesterday , BB.

She’s a witch....burn her !!!

Mueller vs Trump.

A decorated combat veteran renowned for his bravery vs one who dodged the draft because of bone spurs in his feet

A highly qualified man known through out political and diplomatic circles for his absolute integrity, absence of partisanship and dedication to public service vs a tax dodging repeated bankrupt renowned for an unsurpassed record of lying and self-deceit with no educational qualifications.

Shall I go on?

The problem is that you think it’s Mueller vs Trump.

Mueller is charged with heading an investigation. It’s not meant to be personal or political.

So you can go on if you want , but it’s just revealing how much of a witch hunt it is.

Get Trump !!!! Burn him !!!

Blindboy.

Did I say the Russians killed Americans?
I said Americans died saving Germans from Russians.
Did I say the Russians didn't win the war?
....the Americans and the Russians both won right?.
I know you know this....it's obvious stuff.....but you just have to talk crap.
Try contradicting what I actually say for a change.
Watching you skirt around all my main points by rebutting things I never said is entertaining .....but
hearing you boost evil with a lunatic naivety is scary.

Blindboy

I think someone else asked you if you are a communist.
What are you?

Earth to Blowin! Please identify your location. You are on the wrong planet.

So it's not personal? It's a ginormous conspiracy involving the FBI, the Justice Dept, mainstream media, the judiciary and well whoever else you might want to include. OR. It's a legitimate enquiry into the large number of PROVEN, (ie on the public record,admitted to by the participants,) contacts between members of Trump's campaign team and known agents of Russian influence. Now, given your admitted lack of interest in US politics, I can understand that you didn't know this but ........why talk about stuff you don't know anything about.
Given that in the past, the only President whoever dared interfere with such an enquiry was (guilty as hell) Richard Nixon, why would Trump broadcast his near certain guilt except in desperation to shut down an inquiry which will prove there was collusion and, quite possibly, his role was treasonous. But logic is wasted on those who blatantly refuse to look at the facts of the case. Personal? Look at who is calling who names. One way traffic in moronic childish insults.

Blindboy

You love to pretend you have a rational argument when you are the extremist.
....explain yourself and tell us how Brett Kavanaugh is a Neo Nazi.

I don’t know the details BB.

I just know that if you accuse someone of something and then put professional investigators with bottomless funds on the case full time for 2 years with an endless parade of people willing to help throw the accused under a bus ....and you still have fuck all , then it’s an extremely high chance that the accusations are baseless.

But seeing as you think it was probably Trump who convinced Eve to bite the apple in the Garden of Eden , it’s not a stretch for you to assume he’s guilty of this garbage.

So what should the Justice Dept do if thry suspect a crime? Say "please sir have you done anything wrong". It is a very simple and straightforward process. There was evidence of Russian influence on the election from before the inauguration. Do you really believe they should have ignored that? The evidence against Trump, so far, is not conclusive yet he has resorted to pathetic personal attacks on someone highly regarded by both sides of politics for his personal integrity. He has also left himself wide open to charges of perverting the course of justice by his attempts to shut the investigation down. Why all this dangerous, self-incriminating behaviour unless it is hiding some serious shit. Then there are all the questions about the funding of his golf courses which appear to have been funded by Russian money. No none of that is proven but that's the point - to find out.

We’ve been over this.

Not to my memory. If so repost your answers to the issues I raised. If I was falsely accused of a crime and they put someone of Mueller's stature on the case I would be singing hallelujah, not slinging insults.

Sure you would .

I reckon if I accused you of being a goat fucker in jest for another couple of days you would have lost your shit.

Now fancy if it was half of the planet including all of Hollywood and a major slice of the media. Not just accusing, but acting as though it was a done deal exactly as you’re doing .

All Trump had to do was shut up and ignore it and there was no story. No leaks from Mueller, a few public documents when people were subpoenaed or indicted. Slim pickings for the media.
Blowin, you are taking shameless advantage of my known affection for the goat. I think my mother must have fed me on goat milk. Goat cheese, goat yoghurt, cordon bleu stuff. And what finer companion for a man on a ramble through the fields than that prince of animals - the goat.

I hold no such love of the animal.

They are turning vast swathes of our fragile island home into terrain reminiscent of the less vegetated parts of Afghanistan.

They’re more detrimental than rabbits.

How a suburbanite can be fined thousands of dollars for felling a single tree , whilst farmers will release goats to run feral over the landscape , denuding every last bit of remnant flora for a meagre return is beyond me.

In the future the practice of free range goat herding will be regarded as one of the premier mistakes in the historic record of managing our country.

It lifts my spirits some to know that at least you’re getting a positive out of the situation, if no one else.

By any measure of behavior Trump is a criminal.

Unlikely he will actually face consequences but his kids will likely get hammered.

" By means of the spectacle the ruling order discourses endlessly upon itself in an uninterrupted monologue of self-praise."
Guy Debord 1967

Progressive fascism isn't content with destroying its enemies......they eat their own.

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/11/28/blacklisted-feminist-saying-me...

https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/11/28/woke-fascists-get-film-cr...

Blob,

"Re. Me not condemning Trump's adultery.
It's simple.
I reckon Trump and Hillary have both been pretty immoral, but Trump has better policies..
...and he has been constantly flayed by hypocrites, so why would I join in?"

Because of the power of truth. You can admire someone and also condemn the actions you disagree with. In fact, a higher truth you may wish to contemplate is that if you speak your truth to someone for whom you wish to succeed (the good and bad of their actions), it might help them to take stock and guide themselves on a divine path where they have more chance of succeeding over the longest period of time. (I think there's room to carve out a way to condemn but still separate yourself from those who are simply resentful). The only catch I see is that the person themselves must also learn that living and speaking the truth is the only way that they can succeed in any long-term journey to higher ground.

To me I see someone way too conflicted with the truth to ever reach a divine outcome. Sure he calls out unspoken truths often, and has done some good, but its his relationship with his own downfalls that will have him come undone. After the latest bout of court filings, If any of the investigation findings are true, I think he may be very close to a great and historical undoing.

Or alternatively he may prove all the resentful people wrong and be the victim of unfair criticism and suspicion by millions of resentful people worldwide as he claimed to be all along. And maybe Melania & Son are OK with his tresspass on his marriage, and maybe he already redeemed himself to them in some way.

Geez local you're sounding a bit balanced there mate.

You better nip that in the bud. That'll get you nowhere. Especially on here!

Haha,
depends how you interpret what I write Skypan. By being careful to delineate what I do know and what I don't know, and what nobody knows, I think it helps the conversation & I spoke a bit about the benefit of civility and that there's more to civility than needing warm and fuzzy feelings.

Personally, I am healthily biased. I have been learning a bit over the last year or so about narcissism and the phenomenon that truth ultimately prevails in the long term. So I am vested in the scenario where the guy with the fake tan and malignantly truth-resistant personality is on a runaway train to severe ruin. If my assumptions on the man are wrong, I will need to take a drink of humility and spend some of my time questioning what parts of the whole debacle I need to learn from.

That's why all this stuff is of interest to me in the first place, otherwise its all just typical Seppophilia :)

What if narcissism isn’t his defining characteristic ?

What if it’s just the most obvious, but not necessarily the fundamental hinge upon which decisions swing ?

What if Melania wants to see her man getting worked over by some hourly rate sex friend ? Maybe she turns a blind eye cause she’s cosying up to the pool guy ?

Have you had recent personal exposure to narcissism, Yocal , or it a reference to the political zeitgeist?

All are possible scenarios Blowin,
So as I said its a personal assumption that he has a malignant Narcissism to the extent that it would be seen as a disorder (NPD) if he underwent assessment, and that he views the world from that lens. That's the hypothesis I am testing but i'm not even a psychologist, just a surfee, and I guess that's why my own personal assumptions don't really matter publicly.

My own personal exposure to narcissism is probably why i'm interested. After understanding how the trait operates, and how it extends from a mere trait to a disorder (NPD), I notice how it operates within me and those around me (though I don't know anyone personally who would fit all of the preconditions of the disorder, perhaps a guy I worked with once). So the fascination with Trump is more or less a litmus test to verify my own assumptions against.

"The Life of I" - By Anne Manne was one of the first books that caught my interest on the topic.

I would say that it gives deep insight into the mechanics of the trait, and also the disorder. toward the end it goes into the 'political zeitgeist' arena, and I have had some shift in principle toward that in more recent readings so I would need to read this again to see whether I would still affirm the political side as much today as I did when I read it.

Yocal

What is more immoral, Trump's affair or Obama's endorsement of partial birth abortion?.
Which has created more controversy?

Ignorance and hypocrisy thrive in the slimier parts of the Internet and now and then a troll crawls into the open to spit a bit of bile in the face of morality and good governance. . The greatest mass abortionists in history have been the anti-abortionists in the Republican Party who voted down Obama's plan to reduce abortions thereby causing probably hundreds of thousands of abortions of pregnancies that would not otherwise have occurred. Crawl back into the slime.

Blob,
I had to Google that. I don’t know why that procedure would be endorsed, it seems odd to me. Until I knew of the medical/ethical reason to do such a procedure I can’t really comment with any integrity.

What I can say is that within the womb Or partially birthed it is a tragedy, and the only difference is that the horror of the external termination is viewed by the people present.

Most importantly, and a key point i make is that I would be OK to condemn both if I thought both were fundamentally wrong in every way conceivable, and I don’t know enough about either to condemn either the affair or the abortion practice wholeheartedly.

Blowin , how many times have you been to the USA?

Blobby , I am back...and just can;t let yours or Blowins right wing rants /comments go unanswered...

ah lets start with....."and, just anecdotally, living in the States for some time led me to see so many Americans are nicer than the typical Australian".....big statement/judgement as what is a typical American or Australian...?

I am a leftie , but love the USA , as its a cosmopolitan society just like Australia ......unless of course you live in a gated community behind a wall , which rich white people created!

Blobbitt ,your statement,"I'm all for the voter having any reasonable information they want regarding the morality or competence of a candidate that puts themselves up.
If you are a candidate then your personal life is fair game and let the voters make an informed choice.
So if a politician is a Catholic, an adulterer or Gay or plays with toy trains or can fix an economy then I'd like to know the details before voting.
In Australia the press typically choose to not report on our politician's adulterous affairs."

Firstly , do you think seeing Trumps Tax returns would have helped his cause or been detrimental?

Do you think the coverage of Barnaby Joyce and his extra marital relationships with other women was "Australian or Christian?"