Freedom of speech

Indo I enjoy reading your posts on Indo coz you have obviously spent a lot of time there and you speak with that experience behind you. Very informative stuff. But that's it. Issues of race seem to fascinate you, for whatever reason? Muslims and Aboriginal. You use at best clumsy words e.g. that coffee reference and the 100s of words you have dedicated to your views on bloodlines when you must know the words and topics can cause harm. For what purpose or reason? I just don't get it and you get all defensive when missiles come straight back at you. From my direct experience working within Aboriginal communities they are fully aware of their problems or shame jobs and they offer up solutions but they (communities) can spot bullshiters a mile away and have had plenty of false promises and "consultations" along the journey. The communities want action as much as anybody but when they offer up solutions are they listened to? is money allocated for the full journey or is it given this year and removed the next? So this is why what happened in the Alice recently is so important so can I kindly suggest you just don't sit there theorising about it but have the courage to say you know what lets all get behind what they say, lets support our Indigenous nations 100% and see where it all goes. It can only help build the bridges I hope I see in my lifetime.

Maaate, where was banning alcohol mentioned? The issue is abuse of alcohol. You may have missed that because self determination means you're not abusing anyone, including your self in your post's. The ego was created to be a tool, not a master. Thank you for giving us such a fine example of what happens when a tool thinks its a master. Freedom of speech it may be but in the beginning was the word and then came the consequence. Belittling another belittle's yourself. Please stop belittling yourself.

"Explain how these Aboriginal problems should be dealt with or worked towards solving?

- High levels of alcohol abuse
-Higher rate of health problems than non Aboriginal communities
- Shorter life expediency
- High suicide rates
- High rates of domestic violence
-High rate of sexual based violence
-High rate of child abuse and sexual abuse of children
-Poor education levels
-Very high unemployment
-Low home ownership rates compared to general population.
- Very high incarnation rates in our prison system
- Race based stereo types (and the struggle against these)
- General racism, disadvantage, division
(any others you can think of?)

I think you also need to acknowledge and explain how these problems should be dealt with in remote communities and regional and city areas, as although sometimes the solutions may work in both, most in most cases they will need to be dealt with differently

And once again don't just cop out and say it's not your place to say or it's for Aboriginal people to decide, after all you seem to think you are an expert of Aboriginal matters and a spokes person for Aboriginal people (who "cough, cough" apparently all share the same view)

Surely in your three years of study, you must have studied this area and possible solutions?"

Ego is a tool and I think Herc is right trying to break thru uncle whiteys ego put there thru schooling and obvious in the above comments. The high evidence described has been recently challenged especially the higher sexual abuse claims. Persistent in comments is the the idea of cooperation but the failure to listen, really listen, put down your solutions, look the other in the eye, hold your freedom of speech, until it is asked for, for god sake whitey or your international equivalent, they are the victim of racism, you cannot compare your anscestral past that you didn't personally experience to their current predicament. If you were in Britain this happened to you you would be whinging like stuck pigs. They have gone from zero to a million miles an hour in 200 years and any discussion of having solutions for "them" is insult and denial. O to have a real look at the supposed real society the are to aspire too and they really are being flogged a fucked up dump.

Firstly by seeing them as human problems. Any label or statistics only segregates. What's called for is a wholistic approach but implemented in an individual way. Most humans have a need to belong. Most need to have a purpose they believe in. Most people will not destroy what they think will help them. This means their environment and their body, for without either, what do you have? Nothing! Which is the answer to your enquiries. Only a spiritual solution will be the answer to all the problems you highlight. Only by having a foundation rooted in a symbiotic relationship with their country and culture and by the acceptance of truly belonging and desiring to play in a new dream time will positive changes be possible. No thing becomes something. From spirit birth's form. The women and children will lead the change whilst the elders will guide spiritually, but paint not only the past dreaming but encourage new ones as well.

blarney wrote "They have gone from zero to a million miles an hour in 200 years and any discussion of having solutions for "them" is insult and denial. "

as a follow on from blarney's comment and on the issue of alcohol, the foreign correspondent program the other night brought up how europeans have had several thousand years to understand alcohol and its relationship within culture. the point made was that aboriginals were thrown in the deep end when it come to liquor.

So, abuse is abuse. Don't matter where, how, why, just act to stop it. Observation and demonstration shows it's not functional to anyone or anything. Deep end, shallow end, still drowning.

You want balance, you reckon meindoripcoorl? Fair, caring balance? FFS, think what you are saying. Fucking balance? Are you serious? Balance? Are you fucking for real? Obliterated in the most brutal, evil, horrific crime in history, recent brutal, evil, horrific crime, compared to sitting home nice and comfy, enjoying fully the spoils of that brutal, evil, horrific crime, looking at surfing pictures, whilst bored looking after your daughter as you told us. We'll come back to your loving, fair 'balance'.

You were caught out first, when drivvling expert drivvle about how to tell 'real darkies' from 'fake darkies'. I know, yes, its alright dave, he used nicer words, (cunning) in a onefull way too! Not at all belittling to Indigenous Australians, (only the fakes, the half castes cashing in on good 'ol uncle whitey's lurvin' oneness), not bellitlin' just balancing them out a little bit more. Because they haven't had quite enough balancing out, yet. Then meindoripcooorl, you threw this out there, to help with your balancing act. Wiv tha' lurvin! The thing you want to, 'just move on', one of good 'ol uncle whitey's favourite techniques. This.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Imagine a women is raped. Raped. So she is totally innocent. As horrific as we know that is for her, it pales into insignificance compared to the genocidal, evil, brutal crimes the british committed against Indigenous Australians. Totally innocent Indigenous Australians. But imagine some one has a 'feeling' about that woman. A kind of abbot, wink wink meindoripcooorl, 'feeling'. But he wants to 'really' help, 'really', and to perhaps 'bring some balance' to proceedings. So, just to help things along, and with wise lurvin', a oneness, almost, well bugger it a real damn guru lurvin'.

'Hello luv, wink, wink, I can't believe ya haven't heard the one about the girl that said no, no, no, when she meant, yes yes yes!'

Pea brain. Because your coffee shit drivvle, in the context of the subject is a pea brained statement. No, wait hang on, just to appease the Gods (simultaneously not forgetting the gurus), and to keep the 'balancing' act alive, absolute brilliance meindoripcooorl!!! Well done 'ol chap!

Balance. So, how many monuments, medals, statues, films, tv shows, news items, books, awards, holidays etc, etc do we have commemorating and celebrating 'good 'ol uncle whitey's evil, horrific, brutal crimes and lies against Indigenous Australians, which they were beyond any doubt, in the 200th odd year since they began, compared to Indigenous Australians 60,000 year success story. Again I know, 60,000 years doesn't mean much to meindoripcooorl, and as dave kindly pointed out, they didn't own the land anyway, no one does, except only we can do that, if we feel like allowing our law to say so, depending on what balance we feel like having at the time. Just to keep the 'balancing' act going.

You brought up study meindoripcooorl. So I'm going there. It relates to balance. Have you heard of propaganda? Its a powerful brainwashing tool. Say, as The Holocaust was raised, adolf had to convince his dimwitted subjects to put little kids into blast furnaces, as history shows beyond any doubt, propaganda works a treat! It, along with 'advertising' is a massive industry. Big bucks, mega budgets. Because, in the hands of experts, it works. Crowd behaviour. People were enthusiastically, actually feeding innocent, terrified little kids into blast furnaces. A production line. Un-fucking believable. But, when I read some of the brainwashed, shallow, red necked, racist drivvle on here, not really. Who would be a Jew lover! So, for a University level faculty to be set up to study Indigenous Australians, is no simple thing. For a start, racist propaganda forms a huge part of 'good 'ol uncle whitey's historical record of the 'foundation'. Just like in The Holocaust. But, some major differences. First, as horrific as the Holocaust was, what the british did to Indigenous Australians is far, far worse. The invasion, the huge lie had to be well concealed. It was against international law. So, we have chimps. Indigenous Australians were chimps, balanced chimps if you are that thick. Then shit, its being questioned, so vermin. Evil fuckin' vermin, wiv farkin shields and shit, and farkin paintin's, and raping an' beltin' the crap out of their womenfolk'. Cunt vermin. Look out, yee ha, its a genocide stampede. Added to that Traditional Indigenous Australians didn't use books, everything was stored in minds, songs, dance, ritual, story, ceremony. But, against all odds, the cunts made it, they survived. Poor 'ol uncle whitey, fuck it!!! And with a huge effort, indigenous australians assembled their Cultural information. Academia has rules. You have to be able to back what you say. Following clearly laid out criteria. Just having the Indigenous Australian Faculties approved, and supported by the universities, including the information presented, was a huge, huge task, achieved by many dedicated Indigenous, and non Indigenous scholars and people. And, lots had 'feelings' about them. Racist feelings. Academic racist 'feelings'. They were under the microscope more than any faculty. I experienced that by studying in that field. At two universities. When I would do the many subjects and electives from the non Indigenous faculties, the undertone was, this will be real study, not like that stuff. Sometimes, it was, maybe you aren't eligible. It was so smug and smarmy, it pissed me off.

In fairness though, the Universities ensure that many different sources of material are provided. So, I know where all your 'balanced' warfare shit came from, meindoripcooorl. I studied it. Academically, when you present an argument, or answer a question on a topic, you need to prove that you have studied and considered all material presented, have a genuine grasp of it, and provide evidence to support your particular argument. You are graded depending on how good you are at understanding, researching and constructing and supporting arguments. Once again, you avoided all the points raised about your 'balanced', lurvin' warfare google. That you did because as you say, you were bored. From looking after your daughter. Something's rotten in Denmark as they say. If you do enough research you see what is propaganda, what is reality, and why. See how even the North Sentinel Islanders greet 'visitors'. See how them warring abbo's greeted 'visitors? Where are all the Cultural pointers to the 'warring'. We see evidence of war everywhere, when studied by numerous disciplines. Warring Cultures are proud of it. It is reflected throughout their whole record, including physical record. Abundant evidence. The total opposite is the reality of the Traditional Indigenous Australian record. Irrefutable evidence of a relatively peacefull, Spiritually based life is abundant. No armies, no generals, no experience at wholesale warfare at all. It cost Indigenous Australians dearly. Certainly they had criminals, disputes and so on. Cultural evidence emphatically describes and shows the sophisticated, complex rules that they had to deal with those issues. How they actually assessed limiting warfare. As does their 60,000 year result. Many, many Cultures have a record nothing like that. Not one. Collapse after collapse. Environmental destruction. Irrefutable violence, proudly enshrined, applauded. The Colosseum, magnificent, sophisticated architecture! Advancement! Progress! Virgins, )and even gurus), torn apart and raped to death! By animals too (just to keep things balanced)! On tap! Yeh, yeh but them chimps had shields and shit! Good 'ol uncle whitey is tellin' the trufe, vis tyme! Yeh, yeh he seen 'um aye, mmaaaaayyyyttee!

And so following all the criteria, at a couple of Universities, I got on the Dean's Honour Role several times for academic excellence, and was presented other awards. For presenting the information I am presenting here. And for, well as a necessity, being able to support it. When I finished, I felt frustrated. Because of all the problems listed. And more. I have worked with Indigenous Australians at many levels. I asked several, highly regarded Indigenous Australian lecturers and Leaders what would be the best thing to do. The answers were always along these lines. If you hear more ignorance about our Cultures, tell the truth. And, but if that gets too hard that's ok. We understand it can be very depressing. Many good people are dead. Plus the message of Self Determination. Why is it that white people can make endless mistakes, far reaching blunders, start wars, have burgeoning epidemics, not know how to fix them, spread a pack of lies about 'foundation', all while being on the good end, while enjoying the spoils of good 'ol uncle whitey's horrific, evil, brutal crimes against Indigenous Australians. And why conversely isn't that right afforded to Indigenous Australians, who are dealing with the most horrific, heinous, evil, brutal prolonged attempted genocide in human history. Why do they have to fix everything so perfectly and quickly, and be kept 'balanced' in 'legal' chains any longer? They want Self Determination. What that means, is only going to be found by being truthfull. Again, put yourself in their shoes. Say an innocent woman was raped. And her family butchered. And belongings stolen. And, the truth came out. And when she wanted to just learn feel good about herself, and to have the truth, she kept hearing how wink wink, it weren't so bad, she wasn't so perfect. Just to keep it balanced. And when, yeh we got the guilty ones, she asked what their punishment was, she got told, nothing, move on. Get a job. Workers don't commit suicide. Balance yourself. I got a 'feeling'.

http://hackinghappiness.com.au/work-related-suicide-australia/

Sacred Bebigged Pea nuts.

If we really want to show Indigenous Australians how to fix things, like alcohol abuse, and suicide rates figure out how to do it, show it, they might decide to listen. Gurus.

In the mean time, this kid has a real, good story, and result, at the end of a hard road. Its a start. Self Determination. Stop being good 'ol uncle whitey. That's what my study taught me.

You know Herc, you could have saved yourself half an hour or so and just said.

You know Indo mate, i don't have the answers to the hard questions and although I've never read or heard the answers from aboriginal leaders, i still think they should be the ones making the descions to try to fix these problems, because old uncle whitey has tried and only been mildly successful.

No, then your false, unsupported, brainwashed, unbalanced, racist 'feelings' and advanced, progressive, 'educated', unashamedly biased googles about Traditional Indigenous Cultures would sit unchallenged. Ok, you win I'll summarise that, no, or your drivvle would go unchallenged.

Have you done your deep, balanced, 'feeling' research on the results the kid who made that video has achieved? There are others. Working with em, with all your ments savvy too, 'corse its ve saim fing aye', you must have seen em? Even here where I live, some amasing stories. Of Self Determination.

Still you bin ta indo, (bit, nah, way to late though)! Just to keep the balance!

Hey dave, mmmaaayytee, remember that calves shit? When ya asked me that? Fuck, what a shit fight that was! Balanced crossfire, balanced strafin', balanced, drivvling, swillnutting double decker blowies droppin' outa the sky! Googlin' gurus ahoy! Oh what a 'feelin'! Carry on balanced, Spiritual swillnuttin!

Yeah Herc, I thank you for your assistance. Fortunately I ran into a bloke who trained a stawell gift winner and he got me sorted
Amazing how locked on calves can affect the whole body. Still drop my heels over the steps though mate.

Stoked dave.

Herc, your not providing anything not even a theory or opinion or even a link on how to deal with these problems? (just a rap video?)

All you do is try to fit as much name calling as you can in one post, i can only assume you are frustrated with not having any answers?

And perhaps deep down you know that some of my points are correct, as you haven't actually been able to discredit them either.

But yeah I'm racist because i don't actually think MOST (not all) of these problems are about race they are a result of low social economic disadvantage and in remote areas are heavily fuelled by close to zero employment opportunities.

Put any race in the same situation as these remote communities and you would no doubt see similar problems, if that's being racist seeing all humans as being similar well then sorry I'm racist.

You are so full of shit meindorippincoooorl. No need to go deep at all, your good 'ol uncle whitey is shining through, right on the surface, crystal clearly. Not bored enough to do your deep, balanced, lurvin' research today? Too busy working? Suddenly not sure how to? You found all that 'balanced', deeply researched, warring savages stuff pretty easy, real quick too, when you wanted to keep your 'balancing' act going.

Here's some classic research. About Australia's ever worsening suicide epidemic. That's what it's classified as you know. Lot's of em, epidemics, now, aye. More and more! Signs of advancement and progression, and a 'balanced' act. Ludicrously enough, all this below is from the same article! I'll let you find it!

'This is a damning indictment of an economic and social system based on corporate profit, which offers no future for many young people.'

'It is not surprising that the young and working class people are the most affected again today. Parents in jobs are having to work longer hours, cut back on recreational activities and spend less time with their children. Household debt levels are the highest in the world and young people are also burdened with large debts from university or college fees.'

'That so many young men and women, in what should be the primes of their lives, feel there is little to look forward to indicates deteriorating social conditions in Australia, despite the myth of an exceptional “lucky country” leading to rising social tensions and problems.'

'Disturbingly, increasing numbers of children are also killing themselves. In 2013, the ABS reported that suicide was the leading cause of death of children between 5 and 17 years of age. In 2009, 9.9 percent of all deaths of children this age were due to suicide. By 2013, this proportion had almost doubled to 19.3 percent.'

Hey, I know meindorippincooorl... 5 year olds they reckon. Mmmmm... 'ang on, ang on, shit, I gotta 'feelin', there's a buck in this too! Send 'em out to work! Of course! Get 'em jobs mmmmaaaayyyytee! Jeeeeze, we upped the workin' age on the fuckers, lets just lower it too! We can 'ave 'em advancedly and progressively workin' from say 5, ta 7.... naaar, faaark that, 85! Yaaaaaay!!! All fixed! Nexxxt!!!

Then from the same deeply researched article,

'After compiling a series of reports and research documents, the Australian Institute of Male Health Studies found that unemployed males were around 4.6 times more likely to take their own lives than employed males.'

Ayye! Ang' on! Didn't they just say?

Now, maybe your bored enough to do your deep balanced research. Now meindorippincoooorl, ya got that fuck'n lousy vid in front of ya. Don't get too bored, now imagine you're looking for a surf spot... in indo even! And that's all ya got. Away you go. You're way too late for indo, but away ya go! You might even find some more balancing to do, something to give your good 'ol uncle whitey boots a good shinin' on! Like ya dun last researchin'!

And, if ya find you're getting too bored looking after your daughter, here's a bit of balanced info and learnin' about 'family' and stuff. And don't forget, I know you are a indo/ments specialist, it aint ver ments. 60,000 years of success. It aint indo, it aint the ments. Where you were way too late anyway. Just to keep the ever lurvin' 'balance'!

Oh yeh, ever trained 50 year old manual workers, you know, brickies, laborers and shit that have totally fucked backs, shoulders, knees, wrists, necks from working too much, that get told they've only got another 20 (wink wink) years ta go! There's fuckin' millions of em! Punchin' out bintangs for ya to slurp on too! Before the nursin' homes get their lurvin' advanced, progressive, greasy mitts on em! Yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww !!!!!!

Stop being good 'ol uncle whitey. Self Determination.

Guy Smiley:

"Indo I enjoy reading your posts on Indo coz you have obviously spent a lot of time there and you speak with that experience behind you. Very informative stuff. But that's it. Issues of race seem to fascinate you, for whatever reason? Muslims and Aboriginal. You use at best clumsy words e.g. that coffee reference and the 100s of words you have dedicated to your views on bloodlines when you must know the words and topics can cause harm. For what purpose or reason? I just don't get it and you get all defensive when missiles come straight back at you. From my direct experience working within Aboriginal communities they are fully aware of their problems or shame jobs and they offer up solutions but they (communities) can spot bullshiters a mile away and have had plenty of false promises and "consultations" along the journey. The communities want action as much as anybody but when they offer up solutions are they listened to? is money allocated for the full journey or is it given this year and removed the next? So this is why what happened in the Alice recently is so important so can I kindly suggest you just don't sit there theorising about it but have the courage to say you know what lets all get behind what they say, lets support our Indigenous nations 100% and see where it all goes. It can only help build the bridges I hope I see in my lifetime."

Well, Indo?

I know this has been put to you before. I'm someone that's been intrigued by your 'views' before and asked the same questions myself. Amongst others. And by others too.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia have plenty of ideas. They're out there if you wish to look. Real ideas. Competing ideas. Check Chris Sarra and Noel Pearson's different & differing views for example. The main point that you just can't seem to see is that THAT IS THE POINT.

Let Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia speak. Let Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia work out what they want to do and how to go about it.

Give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia a real fair go at it.

Can you listen, respect and maybe even support whatever they want to do and how to go about doing it?

Knowing that respect entails empathy? Really trying to find a way to understand where Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people of Australia are coming from...and why.

Walking a mile in their footsteps.

Again, as the Uluru Statement from the Heart said:

In 1967 we were counted, in 2017 we seek to be heard. We leave base camp and start our trek across this vast country. We invite you to walk with us in a movement of the Australian people for a better future.

A better future for all of us.

And it is a big week and all.

http://www.naidoc.org.au/

Yes well said turkey and smiley. And yes it is a big week for Australia.

Some more balance. Since balance is an integral part of surfing

https://www.facebook.com/Naru-Surf-Gathering-1406865892716247/?hc_ref=PA...

https://www.facebook.com/Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-Surfers-A...

I don't get your post Herc?

You actually seem to be agreeing with me?

You posted

"After compiling a series of reports and research documents, the Australian Institute of Male Health Studies found that unemployed males were around 4.6 times more likely to take their own lives than employed males.'

But yes unemployment is not the only cause of suicide, there is all kinds of reasons for suicide and yes the pressure of working and paying off a mortgage etc can also be a major cause of suicide.

But we are talking about high Suicide rates in remote Aboriginal community's, and id be very surprised if work place pressure etc are the reasons for high suicide rates in remote communities.

BTW. Just for the record, I 100% agree there is much more to life than working and trying to keep up with the jones etc

For ten years after i left school i only worked part time or bummed around on the dole before i got a full time job, i lived out of a Kombi twice traveling up and down the east coast for six months each time and bummed around in Indonesia on and off for a total of a few tears of my life, even now although i have a mortgage to pay and married with a child, i have a work/life balance, i work for myself (not in an office, I'm a tradie) and most weeks i do about a 20-25 hour week, and still get to Indonesia for a minimum of 4 weeks a year.

On the flip side ive also experienced the negative aspect of not working where you lose purpose in your life you struggle and stress from not having money you do shit you wouldn't otherwise do to get money or just silly things that can be as simple as saying fuck it I'm not paying my rego and driving around without it then you get busted and then find things even harder because you have to pay a fine much bigger than what your rego would have been and you don't have the coin to do so, I've partied and drunk way to much for way too long that slowly puts you into a hole of depression, I've even been suicidal because of depression but thankfully i was too gutless to go through with it.

And yes I'm sure Aboriginal community's have many positive aspects, i totally agree community and family support is lacking in general Australian society, similar aspects that he talks about in that video are the same in Indonesian culture (and many other cultures)

If you actually read my post properly you will see I'm not trying to paint Aboriginal or aboriginal culture in a bad light and yes there is aspects from just about every culture we can learn from, but you also need to be realistic and and look at why the problems they have are so predominant especially in remote communities.

Ha ha TT when i first read your post i didn't see it was a repost of Guy Smiley's post and thought hey TT is being positive and kind and straight to the point, not talking in riddles etc.

Look yesterday i tried doing some reading on thoughts and ideas etc from Aboriginal leaders, just really curious to know how they think they would deal with all these issues, but to be honest i didn't really find many answers just lots of the same, government and leaders etc...im skeptical, but will try to keep an open mind and i will google those names mentioned and do some reading.

PS. I rarely agree with Guy Smiley i think he is a text book typical politically correct leftie, but i do think his heart is then right place.

Here we go again meindoripcooorl. You selectively, some how missed this part. The biggest part.

'This is a damning indictment of an economic and social system based on corporate profit, which offers no future for many young people.'

'It is not surprising that the young and working class people are the most affected again today. Parents in jobs are having to work longer hours, cut back on recreational activities and spend less time with their children. Household debt levels are the highest in the world and young people are also burdened with large debts from university or college fees.'

'That so many young men and women, in what should be the primes of their lives, feel there is little to look forward to indicates deteriorating social conditions in Australia, despite the myth of an exceptional “lucky country” leading to rising social tensions and problems.'

'Disturbingly, increasing numbers of children are also killing themselves. In 2013, the ABS reported that suicide was the leading cause of death of children between 5 and 17 years of age. In 2009, 9.9 percent of all deaths of children this age were due to suicide. By 2013, this proportion had almost doubled to 19.3 percent.'

You also make no attempt to as others have described, 'walk in Indigenous Australian shoes'. Even after describing your situation, which almost drove you to kill yourself, and which is absolutely trivial compared to what Indigenous Australians deal with.

60,000 years of unmatched, continued Cultural success. No other Culture has come remotely close. So many diverse Cultures living in relative peace. Ours is a joke in comparison. Children committing suicide? This?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-01/how-much-do-global-superpowers-spe...

http://www.news.com.au/national/how-will-australias-50-billion-submarine...

And all you can do, the best you can muster, is to ignorantly downplay that 60,000 year Cultural success (can you imagine the pompous hullabaloo if it was us), and further undermine Indigenous Australians self worth, Indigenous Australians who are dealing with the most heinous, evil, brutal, prolonged lies, crimes and genocide in human history. On top of that, despite a genuine study of Indigenous Australian Cultures revealing comprehensive, sophisticated, strict and successful laws limiting violence, and making wholesale warfare a non issue, creating a relatively peacefull, egalitarian lifestyle, you put forth some feeble, rednecked, 'balanced', 'naive', brainwashed, racist swill about them actually being savage, brutal, and warlike. As if their Cultures haven't been deliberately misrepresented and slandered enough. Despite you experiencing suicidal tendencies from nothing remotely that full on.

How many times do Indigenous Australians have to tell you, butt out, no means no. Self Determination. The only person that can stand, and always has stood in the way of Indigenous Australian Self Determination is good 'ol uncle whitey. And his weapons and boots. Stop being good 'ol uncle whitey. Its never lasted. Collapse and violence is inevitable. That's our time honoured and celebrated past. We could learn a lot from that 60,000 year success. From the survivors of the worst, most heinous, evil, brutal, genocidal crime the british committed. Even you. If you would just genuinely try to listen. Stop being good 'ol uncle whitey. There's a clear, certain future in that path. Its already in place. The arms race. One raised digit, one button will do it. Smithereens. 'Advanced progress'. Maybe we can buy another planet? Get a cheap deal. Or, better still, maybe we can find one with some more chimps?

Indo's not much of a reader, methinks.

Herc you try to paint modern Australia and western society as something so terrible and Aboriginal culture as so successful so why are you here on the internet posting?

Why are you part of this culture that you think is so bad, why not just go bush and live a simple life without technology, without modern medicine, electricity, without your gym equipment without your surfboard or wetsuit and reject all these things.

Id love to see how long you last, don't forget to leave all the inventions of this evil culture behind.

Okay so i google those names Guy smiley gave

Started with with Noel Pearson, he actually seems to be quite controversial and not exactly well like by all Aboriginal people, which is a little confusing because i thought all Aboriginal people had the same views on things?

So i guess this website is okay? www.Kooriweb.org ? Not right wing or anything assume run by Aboriginal people.

http://www.kooriweb.org/foley/resources/pearson/noel_articles.html

And whats this? Guy smiley a fan of a guy that. (from first article link)

"Noel Pearson has heaped praise on Pauline Hanson and suggested the One Nation leader could well become “a great champion’’ for indigenous Australians"

Confused?

And this https://overland.org.au/previous-issues/issue-200/feature-chris-graham/

Just one snippet

"Broadly, Noel Pearson believes that the provision of a fortnightly pay packet with no expectation of anything in return is killing Aboriginal people.

The free ride inevitably leads Aboriginal people, including mothers and fathers, to drugs and alcohol. Social norms in Aboriginal communities are subverted. Aboriginal people are locked out of the ‘real economy’ and into a cycle of dysfunction, abuse and early death. Grog and ganja become the problem, rather than just the symptoms of the bigger problems of dispossession and unemployment"

Hey Herc i didn't think unemployment was important?

Okay i will keep reading.

Australian story on now

@Indo,

I haven't put forward names at all, you have misread what I (and others) have said to you.

" .... which is a little confusing because i thought all Aboriginal people had the same views on things?" Are you trying to be sarcastic Indo? Very shallow and again can I suggest statements like that belittle your position.

A voice only cooees if it's heard. Otherwise there's nothing to reflect back its attachments. Tourettes.

Historical evidence indicates that those living here before european settlement in the more fertile areas at least had life pretty good. Often they farmed the land with fire creating grazing areas for native animals allowing for easy hunting. The vastness lf the land allowed population densities that were low and relatively low effort for reward hunter gathering lifestyles. Cook himself noted that they seemed to have a lot of leisure and some early settlers thought the aborigines watched the long hours of labour of fencing and building as some form of unnecessary madness.

Their success was in large part due to having a lot of land and their isolation from the the conflict of heavily populated zones such as europe.

Life was not without conflict and tough times though.

My limited contribution to their lost history is from my long dead grandmother who grew up in north qld and used to go to sleep at night listening to fully traditional corroborees in the distance. Her brothers often went walkabout with the tribe nearby.

As a kid she read me many stories transcribed directly from legends by someone hand typed onto thin tissue like paper. Sadly these are now lost.

These were often about hunting, tribal warfare, capturing brides from nearby tribes, mischievous or worse witchdoctor like leaders and powerful spirits of various sorts. One i remember clearly was of an unsuccessful hunter who wanted to impress a girl. After many unsuccessful hunts he took to slicing off flesh from his leg and cooking it telling the girl that he had killed a kangaroo. Boy wants to impress girl issues have been going on for 60,000 years.

Life could be good but was not nirvanna.

Many tribal societies around the world are, or were, characterised by taboos and control often by witchdoctor, sharman, druid, wizard type figures often creating very limited freedom of behaviour. A book by a british guy who lived a fully tribal life in New Guinea for example told of how there were so many taboos it made day to day life quite frustrating. Every aspect of what he and other tribe members did was watched and judged by the ever watchful witchdoctor character. Fear ruled the tribe.

The same guy later lived with semi traditional aborigines for a while and participated in some pay back type tribal spearings. This book painted a relatively tough view of life full of conflict.

Another traveller in central america wrote about living with headhunters. My main memory of his story was that the raids on other tribes were like a macarbre sporting match with an excited build for weeks ahead, then a raid, trophies taken and a rematch awaited with fear mixed with excitement.

Vast space gave the first australians relative peace and prosperity but perhaps we need to be careful not to overlook what is typical in most human societies around the world - conflict and power struggles of various types. Vast space was as much a key to their success as their own ingenuity. It allowed farming techniques that would not work well in more densely populated areas.

The arrival of british settlement was an inevitable tragedy given the pace of colonisation around the world. Questions worth pondering are-

If it was not the british would other power have been a better coloniser ? Spanish? - read about south america. Dutch? - read about indonesia.

That is all looking backwards of course. No easy answers looking forward.

Yep, you are right turk, its NAIDOC week. Time for us Aussies to celebrate our real founders! Bummer they aren't Hawaiian but. Fuckin' hell, the Hawaiians knew how to fight some radical wars and rebellions aye! Don't cross the fucking Chief! Plus, their Culture is around 1500 years old! Pretty close, the Aussies are only around 59,000 years older! They could surf too! Africa was a huge place aye! Fucking hell! Wars ya reckon! Slavery to boot! Holy fuck! Keep on ya fuckin' toes there! Don't cross those Chiefs! You'd think the size of the place would have sorted all that out. Strange that.

Ever stayed around Kirra and Miami on a Friday and Saturday night! Holy shit! Blood curdling screaming and yelling all fuckin' night! Smashing banging, glass shattering everywhere! Me granny reckons people were gettin' killed left right and fuckin' centre! She was terrified, couldn't sleep all night! Couldn't wait to get the fuck out the fuckin' mad house! And, I mean who's gonna question a grannie aye! Hey, should seen this war I saw out the front of the Lennox pub one night. Some beauties in the big smoke!

Aye have ya heard about them cunts that worship that dead witch doctor! Fucking rose from the dead! They nailed him to a lump a wood and they're still fucking guzzlin' his blood! They built houses all over the shop for him! His fuckin' witchdoctors are the richest cunts in the land! Dressing up in these old fucking gowns, chantin' and carryin' on! Threatin' to drown cunts too if they don't bow down to em! Fuckers love fucking little kids too! Caarazy shit aye! Fuck!

How about them lot that cut down whole forests and shit, blow fucking holes in the ground, and build these things where they all come and chuck their women in a fucking cage and watch em trying to fuckin' kill each other! Fucking carrying em out dead! Blood and shit everywhere! Everyone is yellin' and fuckin' screamin', Then they all throw these coloured fuckin' leaves at each other! They all got slaves, and they make their fucking slaves work all fuckin' day till they're fuckin' crippled and dying and all they give 'em is those those stupid coloured fuckin' leaves! The old slaves that live get put in fuckin' prison and spend the rest of their lives trying to fuckin' get out! And the cunts laugh at em all day, give em these potions and shit to shut em up, and then take all their coloured fuckin' leaves back off 'em! Holy Shit! Fuckin' ruthless savages! Me granny seen it aye! Before they got her too! No one is safe!

Still, the real bosses are their Queens, this fucking big arsed family of women! They run the whole fuckin' show! From over the ocean! Do whatever they like! Fuckin' slaves do everything for 'em! They got these magic fuckin' jelly fish that they stuff in their arses to make em even bigger, they stuff the things everywhere, even in their lips! But especially in their breasts and they wave their breasts around and the magic jelly fish hypnotize everyone, and then their fuckin' slaves all do anything they want 'em to. They got all the biggest houses, coloured rocks, planes, shit, you name it, they got it! Gotta get some of them magic jelly fish aye!

Conditioning is a funny thing aye! Especially if you are a granny.

NAIDOC week. 60,000 years. Our founders. Our own people. No wars. No armies. No chiefs. No political system as our conditioning perceives it. Outstanding environmental and egalitarian Cultural record. Unmatched by any other Culture anywhere. No one comes remotely close. Outstanding record and example of over 600 different Cultural groups living in relative peace, and keeping to a common goal. For at least 60,000 years. Maybe, in fact probably longer. Famous for another reason too. Despite, even now, even on here, attempts to hide and downplay it. Famous for surviving the most horrific, brutal, evil, savage, calculated genocidal, prolonged crimes, in human history. Committed by our british forefathers. Famous for being the people, for being the survivors that our forefathers couldn't kill. Despite their very best, prolonged attempts. No one rode in to save the day for Indigenous Australians. They just wouldn't go down, they just hung in. Why not, what would you expect from the best survivors ever. They saw mega fauna, ice age, life beyond what we can conceive. If they were white, fuck, we would have whole state full of monuments, statues and awards. The whole planet would still be clapping. But they aren't. Their Cultures were extremely complex and sophisticated, based on Spirituality, inclusion, reciprocity and a reverence for family. All around was family. The planet, sky, stars and beyond. That is the truthfull record of their Cultural success. That good 'ol connivin'uncle whitey wants to be a fluke, wants to be just lucky cunts. They aren't anything like Hawaiian culture, or the Indonesian Cultures. Huge, glaring differences that made all the difference. If you really care, do some real homework, make a real effort. To understand and love your founders. The differences are glaring. Or ask ya granny. This week our founders, Indigenous Australians are celebrating. With all the sneaky white, smart arse, pea brained cunts, like some of you on here, stabbing them in the back. You fuckin' cunts that can't celebrate Indigenous Australians sicken me, with your fucking brainwashed, smarmy, sleezy, dumb arse, redneck bullshit. Fuck, hitler didn't have to try very hard did he. To find enough dumb red neck fucks to burn little kids. Imagine being a Jew lover.

Self Determination. Pearson, Hanson? Who knows, that's their business.

Hey sheepdog. Thanks for this thread. I mean that. It truly is an excellent idea. A genuine, well thought out real deal 'olive branch'. Thanks.

"queens waving their breasts around" - tell me more...

Ha, watch out for that Queen, she'll buy and sell you 100 times over in the blink of an eye goofer! She'll have lunch with Putes any time she likes! Its advanced progression! Good 'ol uncle whitey style!

Funny thing conditioning. adolph studied it well. Just another dumb vid but!

History's a funny thing too. Twinnies ya reckon. Mmmm. There was this Aussie legend, well there was more than one, a couple have vanished into thin air! Its a crime to even mention them! But this other one, they chucked him to work in the mines! He was a genius shaper, still is. Top bloke... to boot... they reckon. Fucking good surfer. Anyway he fluked a win in some barrel riding comp, on a fuckin' stupid twinnie of all fuckin' things. Against all the thrusters. But, nah he ain't the real legend. He aint the real deal. If 60 minutes want the truth, they'll go to the sheriff, he's the real legend! He dun a real good job on the other poor cunt. Told the world the truth! That other cunts boards are shit in barrels! Yeh. Anyway, now they got these new, more experienced, smarter guys makin' em. Fixin' the useless fuckers... that that other long time shaping genius won that barrel riding comp on. But, if ya got half a brain, and ya wanted a real good twinnie, a real good fuckin' board, from someone that surfed em real good, that had real good experience and results on them, you'd do your homework, go deep in the mine, and find that cunt they call Richo. And have a real good look at history. Funny thing history. Funny thing conditioning! adolph.

NAIDOC week. Ever heard of pixels? Art? We are the genius's of them. That's what the history books will say. If you stand at the right distance, and depending on how many pixels you use, you see stories, pictures, time! Fucking movies! Stand too close, you'll just see dots! Indigenous Australians figured out pixels ages ago. Naaarrrr, fuck'n naaaar, them's just fucked art with some stupid fuckin dots! Thats just dumb shit! We dun it best! Sure we blew up half the planet doing it... but that's fuck'n advanced progress!

Aerodynamics. Wings. Yeh, Indigenous Australians were making wings ages ago. Naaaar!!!! Naaaar!!! Fuck ooorf! Just dumb cunts throwing bits a fuck'n stick! Fuck'n fluke! Plus we got engines on ours and fucking big cunts too, carrying everyone all over the shop! Spreadin diseases too! Advanced, progressing ones! Didn't take us long! Yeh, sure we fucked up the planet doin' it, but we're fixing that... soon. Not like them stupid thick 'edded cunts!

60,000 years. Caves used to be an estuary. Elliston was red gum forest. Things change, some naturally. Borders change, elastic boundaries. People have to shift, they argue about who's going where, why, all that stuff. Some have wars, world wars about it! Blow the planet to smithereens. Some figured out how to do it better. One lot for 60,000 years.

Indigenous Australians had already met 'good 'ol uncle whitey. They had him sussed. Still do. In a deep way. Deeper than we can comprehend. When your 12 month old is sitting in their high chair smashing everything in sight, and neither of you have a clue what the other one is saying, and they are just covered in shit, ya can tell them to shut up and listen all you like, but you know it won't do anything. They'll hopefully scream and smash themselves to sleep. Hopefully they'll grow up, before they stick their fingers, and throw their milk in a power point, or worse still, chuck a fucking bomb at the planet. An advanced bomb.

NAIDOC week. Celebrate the genius.

And if ya want a real good twinnie, the best you'll ever get, find that Richo guy.Don't get sucked in by history and power. And conditioning.

DAYYUUUUMMM Herc, she been on the 12 eggs a day diet, no wat I'm sayin

Good post Frog.

I just tried to pick up where this thread has been tracking and I saw the same discussion going in circles carried forward from last week, spent 2 minutes watching Kim Kardashian twerking and then saw a Ukranian bird that acts like a fucking dog.

'spent 2 minutes watching Kim Kardashian twerking'

I knew ya would, and then I knew you'd start squwarking and screechin' like a fucking galah too!

Africa's a huge place Aye! Fuck, talk about wars! Slavery too!

After reading the Ben Gerring story i realised I can't even do this in jest.

.

Blowin, is it your political style ?, an ideology that protects and defends you ?, or preserves your social status ?, or you just like to stir ?. Please help us out.

The point we implore you to concede is that yes evolution is all around us on all levels, but what indigenous supporters are asking, is for you to acknowledge that this is a genuine issue, here now in the real world, between people, that can be acknowledged, addressed and genuinely reconciled including financially. But to walk away and continue your claim you can hide behind globalization and universal evolution is a bit much is a bit much.

They wish to live that way as much as hippies elsewhere or knights of old re-enacting lost arts fro the thrill or knowledge, same as some ancient tribes in the amazon don't want what they have learned about the new would, but they have learned that the same as change at your local beachbreak its not always for the better, much can be lost including the lives and health of their people. The message isn't denial of reality!!

@ Blowin I just read the Ben herring story, actually came up in my FB feed.

Pretty heavy..but whats the connection to this topic?

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/the-heroic-battle-to-s...

Hey Indo

I'd just made another comment cause I couldn't stomach reading the usual shit . Then I read the Ben Gerring story and realised that life's too short to spend being a smartarse to muppets .

Still loving being a smartarse . But now I'm trying to only give time to crew that are worth talking to.

Ok gotcha

That article was intense. Hits way too close to home too. Almost makes me want to sit on the inside all day long and leave the bomb sets for the soul men.

Yeh, real tough hombres them swillnutting, no substance, drivelling, racist double decker blowies. On the net. In their bullshit, red mistin', psychopathic, assault with intent to murder, heavy bag bad arse stories. As you've seen though, in real life, when called out to back their swillnut, no substance, racist double decker blowie squwarks, just dead men talking. Stuffed and corked. Human flyspecks.

'However, we do know the impact of massacre reverberates across the generations.'

Pretty obvious, unless you are red necked, unbalanced, racist thick head.

“International scholars have found because massacres tend to be carried out in secret, it’s hard to get reliable information at the time it happens. Often the best information comes out later when people speak out when they know they’re not going to be killed for talking about it.

“In Srebrenica nobody could speak about it when it was going on as they were too scared. The real horror came out years later and now the perpetrators are being brought to justice.

“In Australia very few perpetrators were brought to justice. I’m a historian so it’s not my intention to bring people to justice with this map. However, we do know the impact of massacre reverberates across the generations. When I visit Aboriginal communities today the first thing they do is take you to the massacre site,” Professor Ryan said.'

'and now the perpetrators are being brought to justice.'

Good 'ol uncle whitey is getting found out, left right and centre. His lying, sleazy, heinous, genocidal, advance Australia fair, smarmy, smug bullshit is under the global spotlight. Its amasing what you find, lurking around, sleazily hiding in their artificial, fenced off olive branches, when you start shaking them. Flushed, swillnutting, no substance, drivelling, racist double decker blowies start lobbing everywhere. Plenty of good people in this country, its not going to be a haven for racist, hidden, red neck fly specks much longer. The light is shining. I'll bet that bag is copping a squwarkin' floggin' tonight!

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/05/map-of-massacres-...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/05/map-of-massacres-...

'Many of the listings include extracts from colonial texts and first-person settler accounts, which bluntly describe the killings.

“They are absolutely callous and horrendous,” Ryan said, adding that she and other researchers often had to take a break from the work because could not read another account of slaughter.

“It is very traumatising, and you have to walk away from it … It’s probably another reason why it’s taking so long [to pull the map together],” she said.'

Get over it? Non guru ego? No, its called the Truth. You know, the first rule of Spirituality.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2016/apr/02/don...

'Never mind any of that because, as amateur historian Kyle Sandilands said, “get over it, it’s 200 years ago.”

This is a common catch-cry of white Australia, one that flies in the face of our other famous war slogan “Lest We Forget”.

It is a catch-cry so filled with racist crap that we rarely stop to unpack it, but it has always made me curious about just what people like Sandilands think so many Indigenous people are angry about.

Do they think that all of this is about our refusal to “get over” the fact that Captain Cook landed here over 200 years ago, rather than everything that has happened since?

Pemulwuy was killed over 200 years ago, but today his head still sits, unnamed, on a shelf in England somewhere.'

Hey Uplift. Time to ease up on the shit talking about me. It's getting real old.

I'm not replying to any of your rants so the show is over .

Practice what you preach, limp dick head. Who the fuck do you think you're talking to. I don't delete my posts after I've done them, I don't post to be a smart arse like you said you enjoy doing. Racism, and the crimes committed against Indigenous Australians is a serious topic, and as you can see is being taken serious, globally. And not by people who back their racist bullshit with a few googles.

'I'd just made another comment cause I couldn't stomach reading the usual shit . Then I read the Ben Gerring story and realised that life's too short to spend being a smartarse to muppets .'

'Still loving being a smartarse . But now I'm trying to only give time to crew that are worth talking to.'

I can provide a zillion posts of yours in topics that you haven't a clue in, besides a google or two, that were just to be a smart arse about me. Shut the fuck up, stop being a smart arse, simple. Or don't, that's simple too.

The history is so recent that it is likely that many old pastoralist families are sitting on land that great grand dad or great great grand dad actually stole (with the approval of the Government of course). It is possibly (or not) a hard burden to bear for current day land holders knowing of those skeletons in the family's history - of theft and brutality.

This view came to me after listening to the family histories of the some of the Aboriginals I knew and worked with. Their oral history was precise linking descendants with dates and events. This history would have been carefully passed down to the next generations. And some stupidly suggest we should all move on.

I love an argument on here . I'll argue with Blindboy or Sheepy for hours because we actually disagree on something.

No disagreement here . Your just slandering and wishing I was someone or something I'm not in order to grant yourself a legitimate platform from which to sling shit. Which I wouldn't mind if it was done with a sense of humour, but it's not.

I don't give a rats about your opinions and you're free to rant about whatever grabs your tiny mind but the time for you to talk shit about me is over .

Guy, I spent a lot of time on that map last night and have drawn the same conclusion- what must some of the descendents of those landowners think and feel knowing that they have lived and prospered on stolen land? More importantly, in the manner that it was stolen.

I thought, brief as it was, very sad reading. Moreso, that it was so matter-of-fact in the reports.