Freedom of speech

Cool movie.

Hey Happy, if you went on a camping trip - just yourself and a mate - and he put it on you one cold , lonely backwoods night , would you tell anyone ?

If not ....wanna go camping ?

Oldy but a goody , folks.

PS We need a new thread. When the pisstakes become more entertaining than the topic then it's officially done .

Ideas ?

Come on Happy , you're a man of substance - get that ball rolling .

Well said
When you have to defend your point of view, you are not certain of believing it. So don't be afraid, life loves you, be strong in your understanding, but be thankful and acknowledge all others.

gotta love politics

'I get the feeling here among some there is this romanic notion of what it was like before white fella came and that if we didn't come here, cliché Aboriginal culture would continue and Aboriginal people to this day would still want to live on the land in huts playing didg and doing rock and bark paintings while they tell their kids about the dream time.

Obviously no matter what had happened or who had claimed Australia this would not be the case, and the cliche traditional picture painted I'm sure was only one side of the coin and that traditional life would have been extremely hard and life expectancy very short and that like most traditional tribes there would have often been conflict over things like territory, food, women etc

BTW. Im not at all saying we are some saviours or makes the wrongs of the past right, just thought id make the point that no matter what happened it's unlikely traditional life would continue as was and like most cultures people especially among the young they are not always so interested in tradition culture and are more interested in things outside their culture like music, technology, internet/computer games, movies, drugs, porn etc. (this problem is seen among many cultures for example traditional Mentawai people, were the children as they grow old enough want to move to a city and live a non traditional life)

Yes there have been times in our pass where Aboriginal people were tried to be parted from their culture (just like other areas of the world especially by missionaries)'

Is this for fucking real? Seriously, what kind of dumb arse, racist, thick headed, red necked fuck thinks(sic) this baseless, drivvling bullshit up? Well to be expected, when you see the same peanut shells this out.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Who the fuck, except a redneck, racist pea brain would believe it?

Well, yes, ibinindotomesoripcooooorl (too late though), it actually was different before the british liars and psychopathic butchers came here. The 'romantic' view you mention, whilst so beautifully demonstrating a total lack of understanding what that actually means in the context of Traditional Indigenous Australians, was not true. The country was not untamed jungle, which is the classic romantic view, but had been deliberately shaped by Traditional Indigenous Australians to actually make life easier, in many, many ways. All of the places good 'ol uncle whitey stole to build his main towns and cities in were the main areas used by Traditional Indigenous Australians, and were abundant and thriving. Unlike now. Even places like Elliston, in the supposed desert (created by good 'ol uncle whitey'), had an abundance of food on land and sea, as well as abundant fresh water, and was heavily forested. The lungs described by dawg, were in perfect health. Thriving. All of this is documented. By denuding huge tracts of land of their forests on the WC, 'good 'ol uncle whitey created a gigantic wind tunnel, long live the mega sea breeze. And bye bye top soil. Again all documented. Conversely, areas like Byron are now in comparison overgrown, as we try to 'recreate' it in our 'romantic' image, again all documented.

Where does it end?

'Here's some news for you Talking turkey, just like any race or ethnic group in the world

ALL ABORGINAL PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE SAME VIEWS OR OPINIONS. '

Here's some news for you ibinindotomesoripcooooorl, Tradtional Indigenous Australians already had numerous different Cultures and different people living in relative harmony, working together for the common good, for 60,000 years, before the brithish sleazily, manically ran amuck. 60,000 years. You know? Shit hang on, let me break that down so you at least have a shot at it. 1(you know, one) x 6 (you know six) = 6. So then 6 (you know, six) x 10 (you know ten)... ahh fuck it, now you are probably 'feeling' light headed. Why don't you just get all your 'good 'ol uncle whitey clan boyz together and see if you can google what 60,000 means?

'I get the feeling here'

Probably feeling your rivers of drivvle dripping off of your chin. Onto this website. This brilliant 'feeling', based on the only fact that you go to indo, and married. FFS. Again. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that you are just short a few brain cells ibinindotomesoripcooooorl. No fuck that, the truth is, if you honestly spout this baseless drivvle, like the rest of the swillnut double decker blowie clan, barbie and co, you actually must be a dumb arse, racist, thick headed, red necked fuck. Keep tugging away, playing with ya 'didg', and getting that feeling there ibinindotomesoripcooooorl.

The sooner Indigenous Australians have self determination, the better.

Herc are you the new full forward for mallee park?

Herc are you the new full forward for mallee park?

Ha, a few weeks ago, Mallee Park v Tasmans, 203 to 7. Funny day in town that one. Press went silent. Blackout. MIA. Ya reckon they need one? You up for it doc?

And swillnut double decker blowie, my owned boy, that's how you post videos, ya fuck'n drivvling thick headed, pea brained 'cobber'.

Herc generally speaking when people feel the need to abuse and insult others, name call etc, its generally a sign that they know they are wrong and really don't have a proper counter argument.

I do however think its funny that you obviously believe you are some spoke's person for Aboriginal people and some bearer of Aboriginal knowledge that others don't know, IMO many of your views are naive and idealistic.

Really from your own point of view your just another white fella living on a stolen land, but i guess it doesn't really mean that much too you, otherwise you wouldn't be here living in Australia.

And yes the easiest way to try to shut someone down or discredit what they are saying is too call them racist.

BTW in regards tis a Treaty although i think the subject is divisive and i think it could even be a backwards move for indigenous people in many ways, to be honest i don't real care either way if it happened or if it didn't.

Im bored home looking after my little girl so been reading a bit about the subject, quite interesting.

Basically there is evidence to back my view up.

1) The existence of wooden shields. Shields only exist in order to block the weapons of others, and do not have utility for hunting (unlike knives and clubs), so therefore demonstrate that fighting was taking place.

2) Australian rock art dating back at least 10,000 years depicts fighting scenes using weaponry.

3) Research by anthropologists since the mid-19th century has witnessed wars between Aboriginal Australian tribes.

Not only did wars take place over hunting territory or ownership of wells, but also over the abduction of women.

These conflicts between tribes often resulted in long-running feuds, as a result of 'payback law', whereby a raid will cause retaliation from the other tribe. These could be devastating - anthropologist T.G.H. Strelow witnessed a three year conflict that killed 20% of the population of the tribes conducting the war.

@ Herc maybe go see if you can get this womens book from the library https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/bennelong-papers/2013/01/indigenous-viol...

Quadrant!? Keith Windshuttle's Quadrant. FFS.

"IMO many of your views are naive and idealistic."

Your opinion as informed by?

Stuff like Quadrant?

"Generally speaking when people feel the need to come up with stuff like this - "to be honest i don't real care either way if it happened or if it didn't" - its generally a sign that they know they are wrong and really don't have a proper counter argument."

Fixed it for ya.

Whatever. Did you read Herc's post by the way?

Or that link to the article that Shatner posted before he beamed himself up?

It's a renowned source. Almost as renowned as Quadrant under the Windshuttle stewardship!

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/entertainment/abbott-18c-attack-freedom-t...

Yeah great TT

Just cut and paste some random quotes.

Then ask if if read Hercs babble.

Why bother?

Why not actually bring something to the discussion?

They're your own words, you plonker.

And why bother reading?

And then expect to be taken at all seriously?

I tell you what I've brought to the 'discussion'...what Aboriginal And Torres Strait Islander people of Australia have said and written themselves!

Here's a quote from your fave Shatner mkII. You'll love it:

"Y'know, those "blackfellas" apparently want a treaty or something...how does it effect ME?
What would you give up for THEM? I don't like THEM trying to split up MY Australia. I, ME & MINE, don't think it's, y'know helpful, FOR ME. AND MINE. AND THEM! Don't you agree, MY fellow country-MEN?

ME. ME. ME.

But, but, but...that's not ME. I don't want to (snigger) "point the bone" (get it, get it?) BUT... etc etc etc blah blah BULLSHIT."

Ya reckon the 'treaty' thread WASN'T a willfully ignorant, white noise whinge-fest (with free coffee)?

Actually , I'd rather not.

Kinda beat me to it TT.

Indo, as you would know I'm pretty easygoing but Keith Windschuttle happens to be an aquaintance of mine and a more unlikeable person you'd be hard pressed to meet- short, pot-bellied, bald, bespectacled, rude, arrogant and condescending. Totally in love with his own reflection. He's a contemporary of John Howard, Canterbury Boys High old boy.

I'd be very wary of what you read in Quadrant, he's been discredited many times. I know for a fact that at his book launch 'The Fabrication of Aboriginal History', he tried to get word out in advance to try and drum up some sort of protest amongst the Koori's in the misguided hope of creating a scene to attract publicity for the launch. He even hired security guards. Consequently, out of the dozen or so blue-haired old ladies that actually showed up and a few token boot-licks, there was no protest and the controversial book launch went off with a pop.

Indo, you make your points and they're worth discussing, but I'd cast your net wider than Quadrant.

"I do however think its funny that you obviously believe you are some spoke's person for Aboriginal people and some bearer of Aboriginal knowledge that others don't know, IMO many of your views are naive and idealistic".

Shirley you can't be serious? Ever look in the mirror?

Actually, this is interesting.

Blowie, can you tell us what Indo thinks, says, means to say and think, and point out where he's wrong, or right, where'll he'll go wrong, or right, in whatever he says and does?

I'm sure he'll appreciate the 'intervention'. It'll help.

Then we'll talk about, for, and to him, and then you can answer any concerns, questions, on his behalf.

Hang about, you're not bullshitting us AGAIN, are ya?

Thank you Blowin thats obviously the point which i thought was clear.

As for the Quarant link, it could have been from any website, it wasn't actually about the website or the interviewer it was about the women that was interviewed who has written a book on the issues of violence in Aboriginal culture.

@Guy Ive never said I'm speaking for Aboriginal people have I?...Ive actually said more than once that just like any race/ethnicity they all have different views on things, i even posted a video to a great discussion that shows how true this is.

Hercs views are "Naive and idealistic" because he believes that before white fella came Aboriginal were living some garden of eden existence living like one big happy family, and that by signing some treaty, all these issues that Indigenous people have will suddenly disappear.

Like i said i have no real problem with signing a treaty, but all the problems Indigenous people have will continue.

'Im bored home looking after my little girl so been reading a bit about the subject, quite interesting.

Basically there is evidence to back my view up.'

Again, is this for real? What you are saying is that you already had your totally uniformed 'view', then bored shitless, googled things for a little while, that you had no idea about, and found 'evidence' to back your uniformed view up. About such a far reaching subject. Are you fucking serious? If the cap fits, wear it peanut. 60,000 years in a swillnutshell. FFS.

'Hercs views are "Naive and idealistic" because he believes that before white fella came Aboriginal were living some garden of eden existence living like one big happy family, and that by signing some treaty, all these issues that Indigenous people have will suddenly disappear.'

You stuffed up where you brought up the classic 'romantic' viewpoint, because, as I just explained previously, that was/is one of the classic 'good 'ol uncle whitey racist viewpoints. In order to keep Indigenous Australians in the 'terra nullius' or 'chimp/cave man' box. Re read, perhaps this afternoon when you are even more bored stupid, what was said. F. Fucking thick, or lazy effort.

You have completely dodged all of the racist, thick headed, red necked, doubledecker blowie drivvle you drooled out that I commented on.

As has been raised, many books written about Traditional Indigenous Australians had a racist agenda. Terra Nullius had to be supported, justified. Or, sometimes, ala, klu klux clan, and red necked, racist fuckwits spouting this shit below, people are just out and out racist. You said this, wear it.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Show me where I have ever said that Traditional Indigenous Australians never had disputes, or law breakers. Or faults. They were and are people. However, their 60,000 year record in dealing with the same issues found in our society, puts ours to shame. Our 200 odd years resulting in overflowing prisons, drug epidemics, overworked police forces, ridiculous amounts of pollution, ridiculous environmental fuck ups, ridiculous inequality, fiscal,(fucking fiscal?) and financial disaster left right and centre. Ever burgeoning numbers of homeless children. Old people stuffed into nursing homes and and/or bled dry. Old people begging to die, but being forced to live. Religious and societal leaders humping kids left right and centre. Climbing depression and suicide rates. The fucking arms race? The list of monumental fuck ups is endless. All in only 200 odd years.

I studied the subjects that you googled in your bored shitless, already fixed state ibinindotomesoripcooooorl. Except full time for 3 years. Then more intensively for another year. Because I take seriously what our 'good 'ol uncle whitey did to Indigenous Australians. And other Indigenous Peoples around the globe. I am serious about somehow addressing that. This is a very brief summary about Traditional Indigenous Australians disputes, feuds, breaking laws etc.

http://austhrutime.com/australian_aboriginal_tribes.htm

You talk baseless drivvle about how all Cultures would eventually end up like ours, regardless. North Sentinel Islanders comprehensively trounce that theory. Good 'ol uncle whitey in a psychopathic frenzy (the red mist), beat the living shit out of all the other Cultures that we 'colonised', until they had no choice.

It is blatant, ignorant racism to overlook our 200 odd year shocking record and failings, whilst ignoring Traditional Indigenous Australians unrivalled, unmatched, astounding 60,000 year Cultural success, whilst trying to focus on their relatively minor faults, using that as a tool to perpetuate the crimes committed by good 'ol uncle whitey.

'Like i said i have no real problem with signing a treaty, but all the problems Indigenous people have will continue.'

Well, their track record, compared to ours, shows that the sooner they have self determination, the better. I'd also like to see how you can know even a few hundred years into the future? FFS.

' just thought id make the point that no matter what happened it's unlikely traditional life would continue as was and like most cultures people especially among the young they are not always so interested in tradition culture and are more interested in things outside their culture like music, technology, internet/computer games, movies, drugs, porn etc. '

The music video posted above totally refutes this.

Self determination is Indigenous Australians fair and truthful right.

Four years and you still know Jack shit...please tell me you are only spinning yarns?

No i had learnt the history some time ago, bored i decided to refresh on my history and look deeper, yeah it is quite scary that i can learn things that you don't know in half an hours reading. (great reason not to use roid's kids)

I guess its clearly subjective what progress is or isn't but if Aboriginal people shared your view they would go bush and live without the influences of the outside world be it electricity, modern clothes, medicine, money, alcohol/cigarettes, housing etc

Maybe there is a percentages that do?, but from understanding if there is then it's an extremely small percentage.

As for if Australia would have been settled or not if the British didn't, i think its quite a long shot to think that it wouldn't, it is unknown though whether Aboriginal people would be better or worse off than now.

Yeah sure in an ideal world the Aboriginal people would have been left alone to live how they want, but the reality is it's not a perfect world and there is very few countries in the world that haven't been fought over or conquered by other races/ethic groups etc

Ha ha yeah okay take one little Island and use that as an example and compare it to Australia the biggest Island on earth, just googling it sadly there seems to be an estimate 50 to 400 of these people alive. (census date says 39 in 2011) if a disease they have no immunity got there they could be completely wiped out.

BTW. Everyone keeps on bringing up the Coffee comment.

Acting as though it's a comment i support or a view i share.

The Funny thing about this is, it's a comment that lefties use you see it on social media all the time, its used against people who judge someones ethnicity by the colour of their skin.

IMO although skin colour is often a sign of someones bloodline it's not a set in stone deciding factor DNA is.

Anyway i really don't want to get into all that again, i said what i needed to say on the issue of DNA/Bloodline and the identifying thing.

BTW.Nice try on trying to pigeon hole me into being racist etc, because i challenge your views, you have no idea whatsoever.

"Actually , I'd rather not."

Blowie, old mate, you've been self-redacting again to cover your arse, haven't you?

Poor form.

But maybe you're slowly learning something at least. Pulling your head in.

Speaking of which...Indo, Indo, Indo.

Stuffed and mounted.

On Herc's wall of shame.

A video you need to look at. Maybe.

Okay Herc might have caught me with his big piece of bait, I guess im up on the wall right next to Blowin.

BTW. What is this thing with everyone seeing to change their user name?

Forget password?

Or want some kind of new start or something?

It's not denial i don't think there is many people out there that deny what happened in the past, or don't agree that it was wrong or horrific.

You are going down white guilt territory, i don't have white guilt any more than my Indonesian wife has white guilt, just like id assume most germans don't for the actions of Hitler.

The reality is if the British hadn't claimed Australia some other country would have, the chances that Indigenous people were going to be left alone to live how they choose is pretty unlikely.

actually indo, many germans have guilt over hitler. not necessarily at the individual level but more at the societal level. and it can be to the point of not liking to talk about it which indicates its not insignificant. younger generations perhaps not so much.

even though im in favour of treaty(s) and self determination I also expect to see it succeed. if aboriginal people are given the tools and the help to make things work for them then they better well make a go of it otherwise i'll spit the dummy, well i probably wont as I'll be old and senile but you get my drift. first hurdle for australians though is faith and goodwill. we should provide that and cast judgement later.

'I get the feeling here among some there is this romanic notion of what it was like before white fella came and that if we didn't come here, cliché Aboriginal culture would continue and Aboriginal people to this day would still want to live on the land in huts playing didg and doing rock and bark paintings while they tell their kids about the dream time.'

Again you dodge the fact that you raised the romantic view in the wrong context. Good 'ol uncle whitey used that term, and ideal, to try to paint the picture portraying Traditional Indigenous Australians as animals, literally prehistoric victims of their environment. Which was totally false. Again, although something you understandably avoid, the environment was thoughtfully, very successfully shaped by Traditional Indigenous Australians in order to make life more comfortable and easy. Which also highlights the smug ignorance, the stupidity of your racist, redneck, thoughtless drivvle below,

'I guess its clearly subjective what progress is or isn't but if Aboriginal people shared your view they would go bush and live without the influences of the outside world'

'Bush', simpleton, was Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, that is, all the capital cities and major towns that we found so appealing. And that traditional Indigenous Australians had cultivated into rich areas of prosperity and abundance. So, mouthing off that they should just go bush, having obliterated it, and driven them from it, is ignorant, arrogant, extremely insulting, and racist to the extreme. The comment of a peanut.

Again the island you deliberately wish to ignore, and understandably so, ibinindotomesoripcooooorl, North Sentinel Island, is a perfect example of people actually rejecting all the things you later go on to say they will certainly want. And of their Culture, when not forced to change, like all the Cultures destroyed by 'Colonialism', happily continuing on, in the same way the people had chosen. They, like Traditional Indigenous Australians, also have a remarkable 60,000 year success story. However, we know so little about them, it is difficult in some ways to compare them to Traditional Indigenous Australians. For instance, do they have such a diverse range of Cultural groups who learned to live in relative harmony for that equally long period, with all around them?

So you view as advancement and progress a longer and longer working week, longer and longer working life, for less real wages, or this, as your clan member swillnet doubledecker blowie, so lovingly described it,

'created by the folks sitting in a chair , facing a computer under flouro lights and performing tasks that don't interest them, for people they resent , for upwards of 8 hours a day ?

5 days a week.

49 weeks of the year.

Who have fallen into nasty habits.'),'

Along with, again, understandably so, avoided, and in only 200 years,

'overflowing prisons, drug epidemics, overworked police forces, ridiculous amounts of pollution, ridiculous environmental fuck ups, ridiculous inequality, fiscal,(fucking fiscal?) and financial disaster left right and centre. Ever burgeoning numbers of homeless children. Old people stuffed into nursing homes and and/or bled dry. Old people begging to die, but being forced to live. Religious and societal leaders humping kids left right and centre. Climbing depression and suicide rates. The fucking arms race?'

History? You rely on the british version of history? hilarious, which book, 'Boys Own Annual? Biggles? Roy Rogers Show? Good 'ol uncle whitey showed beyond all doubt that he's a master, compulsive liar. Showed that the truth means nothing in the quest for power and riches. Showed that he couldn't be trusted in the slightest. I studied that history, along with anthropology, sociology, archeology, racism, religion, and many more fields that fueled and effected the brute like decimation, and as highlighted genocide, of Indigenous Australians.

And yes, 'BTW. Everyone keeps on bringing up the Coffee comment.'

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Because you stupidly said it, yes, that blatantly racist drivvle is all yours. So now, you fucking wear it. So proudly too.

'You are going down white guilt territory, i don't have white guilt any more than my Indonesian wife has white guilt, just like id assume most germans don't for the actions of Hitler.

Wanting a good, fair, better place to live has nothing to do with guilt. Standing against one of the worst, no, in fact the worst, despicable, horrific crime in history, and only recently committed, has nothing to do with guilt. Reaching out to Indigenous Australians by acknowledging the full truth, and by recognising and enabling their right to self determination is just the right, honorable thing to do. Values. Kids. Example.

'The reality is if the British hadn't claimed Australia some other country would have, the chances that Indigenous people were going to be left alone to live how they choose is pretty unlikely.'

That's a classic, chickenshit approach. Standing by, turning, running away shitting yourself, while innocent men women and children are butchered and abused. Values. Kids. Example. Every dog for himself, biggest sleaze bag wins, or Advance Australia Fair. For once, for real.

It appears - actually - this little note thingy doesn't represent ALL aboriginal people, and there is diversity of opinion (excuse me while I clean that diversity word induced vomit from my mouth)

Cough cough, gargle gargle... that's better

“We need power, we need land, we need a sense of justice, we need self-determination,” he said. “People like me are less concerned about the symbolic gesture or the acknowledgement than about actually getting the return.”

Im glad somebody has finally shown the ball's to say this

FWIW I agree with the above statement. But for any of the dreams that are currently being floated to get anywhere Australia is going to have to debate these things. Which means talking about stuff. Stuff like aboriginality, successes, failures, and the slicing up of the spoils. Current models of welfare will probably have to fall in there somewhere too unfortunately.

I think indod has done a great job at keeping these difficult discussions civil and he is far far away from being the main enemy of the debate but you guys clearly know best....

"Keep calm and carry on, freedom warriors."

http
s://www
.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jun/30/indigenous-constitutional-recognition-faces-tough-battle-post-uluru

PS that capcha thing is all fucked up again - Or is it just always fucked up?

"One more step" my fucking arse!!

And, beam yourself back shattered bosom

I do like what you do. You just need to pepper your bile and vitriol with facts, humour, and possibly a position occasionally - as herc does

You're pretty good at humour, but the rage and judgement cancels it out tenfold

As to giving an actual position, on anyrhing, you come across as a bit of a turkey

It's kind of pointless really having a conversation/discussion with you Herc hence why i generally have avoided it in the past and generally let others have pointless arguments with you that normally turn into too and throw nonsense.

But I am curious what Aboriginal issues/problems do you think are most important to be addressed?

And of these matters how is a treaty going to actually work towards solving them?

"""It appears - actually - this little note thingy doesn't represent ALL aboriginal people, """

sypkan. whilst not factually incorrect statement thats a poor reading of the guardian article. or did you get this info from somewhere else?

Each individual and each mob would have their own issues. But culture can no longer be a fallback unless their is action in accordance. Alcohol abuse is not culture. The is no point talking about any issues until this is addressed. Aboriginal peoples have to treat themselves and their families with respect. Got to give the grog away. Australia has a culture of alcohol abuse. Our sports are sponsored by grog for God's sake. Aboriginal and Australia has to say enough is enough. Giving up the grog will reduce violence, crime, mental illness problems etc. Let's piss off the piss. Treaty yeah.

two separate but inseparable issues there dave. cause and effect. circular spirals of harm.

Yeah mate but one that needs immediate attention. A strong government would put the social cost of the community before the economic greed profit. But where to start hey. Education of children but have to stop sports advertising grog. VB Fri night footy, for fcuks sake. Teach our kids wisely now.

IMO in regard to things like high levels of abuse of alcohol to fix or reduce the problem you need to look deeper at why these levels are higher than the general community, instead of just banning alcohol (dry communities) which IMO although may be done in good faith is kind of a racist policy.

And then the reasons may be different from remote communities to say city or regional areas.

Although IMO most problems in Aboriginal communities come back to lack of employment and the reasons for lack of employment may be different between remote communities to say city and regional areas. (Most of these problems seen in Aboriginal communities aren't unique to Aboriginal people they are common in most low social economic areas anywhere in the world)

For example remote areas employment is low because there is no to little jobs.

While in city's and some regional areas where there are better employment prospects Aboriginal people may find it harder to get a job because of racial stereotypes held by employers or from lack of skills as a result of low social economic disadvantage.

IMO the danger of a treaty is it could create further division between Aboriginal and Non Aboriginals, physically it may keep or encourage those to live in remote communities where employment is not going to suddenly get better and in cities and regional areas it could hinder the assimilation of Aboriginal and non Aboriginal people and even cause resentment among some non Aboriginal people.

I could be wrong, but id be surprised if Aboriginals that had full time employment had as high levels of alcohol abuse, health problems, shorter life expediency, suicide, domestic violence, poor education levels etc as those that were long term unemployed especially those trapped in a low social economical environment where the parents had also been long term unemployed.

And id be surprised if the children of Aboriginal families that have employment would face all these problems at the same high level as the children of those that have been long term unemployed.

But hey Herc might tell me that employment is bad and evil brought in by old uncle whitey and they would be happier being unemployed, because employment and money is part of old uncle evil whitey system and not part of Aboriginal culture that is so successful and doing so well in these remote areas.

Sheepy, the sunnyboys showing some discipline. UFO dropped us back. Info, I agree that employment or activities creating a sense of purpose is a good strategy. Aquaculture and agriculture utilising connection to country. There are a heap of new economic markets that could be created if we really had the will to pursue as a nation. Leave racism out of it,its about social responsibility.

85, me thinks. Time and the mind amazing. Memories seem close, I feel young and invincible. Then I look in a mirror or see a calendar and get a shock. I seem to be a time traveler on the out side but a time editor on the inside lol.

Well, well, well. The clan are getting bolder by the minute! They've found a real nice, warm, lovin' place to conduct their business!

Firstly, ibinindotomesoripcooooorl, you have made lots of baseless statements, but haven't answered any questions raised about them. I understand, its a classic, well trodden swillnut strategy when they have no answers.

Now, you, in a deep bored shitless state, have more to tell, more instructions to offer Indigenous Australians!

But, before we go to your deep instructions, lets go back to your last portrayal of Traditional Indigenous Australian Cultures. A warring, violent, not so goody goody people you say, because, well, isn't everybody aye! But especially that lot! Then you googled some shields, and rock art. And farking smashed skulls too! Bingo, conclusive proof that you were right all along! See, good 'ol uncle whitey weren't so bad after all! He just sped up the inevitable! Better sooner than later! They're lucky it was us, now farkin' move on!

Its all a bit, well, very very shallow though. Just a quick google after all. And that's not even taking this ibinindotomesoripcooooorl classic, racist outburst into account, that as he says, 'everyone keeps bringing up'.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Ibinindotomesoripcooooorl studied 'history', forgot about it, and then googled it, finding that it totally backed his 'feeling'. Stories of one of the most abusive, vicious races of people ever. Then shields, paintings, women's mutilated crushed skulls, backed by eye witness reports from 'good 'ol uncle whitey's boys. 'History' and eye witness reports, from the same, proven liars and sleazebags, that concocted the whole "Terra Nullius' 'its ok, they are just fucking chimps' 'fucking vermin to be exterminated' bullshit. The same proven liars that headed to Australia, knowing full well it was occupied, and against the law, having already decided fuck the law, fuck them all, we want it, we are number one, and no one is going to fucking stop us. Least of all some fucking, uppity darkies. Indoripcoorls key witnesses. That's the undeniable truth. That's the key witness in that deeply, bored shitless 'historical feeling'.

Now lets look at some undeniable, real, not just 'feely' facts. Traditional Indigenous Australians had been visited by, and had traded with other Cultures well before good 'ol uncle whitey's visits. Good 'ol uncle whitey even banned the other visitors from coming! They love a good ban! And guess what, before good 'ol uncle whitey's visitor ban, the other visitors were greeted and treated in a very welcoming, friendly, civilized, sharing way! The evidence is everywhere! Stop press! 'War like, vicious brutes turn goody goody... cunts!' Yes, good 'ol uncle whitey's history. Then of course, when good 'ol uncle whitey sleazily, and illegally hit the scene, well, guess what, facts ahoy! Greeted peacefully! In a civilized, non threatening, non confrontational manner! Stop press! 'War machine mysteriously vanishes... weapons of mass destruction disappear (remember them)!' Nothing like when 'good 'ol uncle whitey 'dropped in' on other cultures. The highly trained, well practiced, disciplined Maori war machine sailed out and belted the living crap out him! On the other hand, somewhat mysteriously, the Traditional indigenous Australians had no army, no general, no strategy for war, no advanced weapons of war, unlike 'good 'ol uncle whitey, and the Maori's, and numerous other Cultures who were highly skilled, and highly practiced in war. But good 'ol uncle whitey knew that. The sleazy, lying, racist cunt. Peanut.

Which leads to more reality. Archeological evidence shows a huge abundance of Traditional Indigenous Australian Spiritual sites, Ceremonial sites, Sacred sites and peaceful gathering places, endless evidence of peaceful interaction. The evidence of that is literally everywhere. 60,000 years worth. Cultural, societal study conclusively shows that fighting and disputes, and breaches of law were governed by extensive, sophisticated rules, and took on a largely symbolic role, to minimise wholesale war, unbridled war, like conclusive evidence shows that 'good 'ol uncle whitey engaged in relentlessly. Loved and paraded in fact. Traditional Indigenous Women were treated as very important, a part of overall revered life, and were even afforded rights, teachings and ceremonies that men weren't. And visa versa. Study of other Cultures who frequently engaged in war and violent behaviour shows an obvious, clear, well defined trail highlighting and outlining that. That is factually, clearly not the case with Traditional Indigenous Australians. In fact the clear, real evidence, and proper (non bored, beyond google) deep study highlights the exact opposite to be true. For 60,000 years, at least. Just like anywhere there were law breakers, criminals and so on. And punishments could include use of spears and shields. However, knowing that, shields and spears, and even art, could just as easily be viewed as methods of defense against criminals.

Again, conclusive reality, real, undeniable evidence shows that Traditional Indigenous Cultural practices and values worked much better than most, especially 'good 'ol uncle whitey's. No overflowing prisons (which was one of 'good 'ol uncle whitey's plans for his new conquest), no police force, no attempting to conquer the world, no hierarchy of government. Reciprocity, equality, and honesty were valued. Unlike 'good 'ol uncle whitey who valued and based his whole 'foundation' on lies, sleaziness, and horrific brutality, So we have the two totally opposite, indisputable results. The only thing they have in common is that they are both unrivaled. Which Ibinindotomesoripcooooorl desperately, almost pleadingly, must ignore! 'I don't farkin read hercs posts, I juz comment on em, wivout noing wot I'm commentin' orn!' Peanut.

Like I said the clan are getting bolder now. 'Deeply' bold in an oh so shallow way. Good 'ol uncle indo is gonna put the darkies to work! Which before we even examine that presents problems. Remember this red necked racist drivvle? That 'everyone keeps bringing up'.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Remember 'good 'ol uncle indo's other drivvle about 'fake darkies' Oh dear. How much milk would it take before 'good 'ol uncle indo's violent, war mongerin' woman bashin' 'darkies' don't have to 'get a job' to save them? Who's goona grade 'em? Then, say quite recently your family were brutally murdered, raped to death, tortured, humiliated, poisoned, their children's heads bashed in classified as chimps, as vermin to be exterminated,by the sleezy, brute like british liars. Say they were in fact subject to genocide and extermination. Had their every belief rejected and made out as primitive and inferior, their land and spirituality, their homes their heartfelt mother destroyed and trampled, and stolen, again by the sleezy, brute like british liars. For a ridiculously prolonged, and very recent time. Say that was you. You, left with the horrific aftermath. Go deep. FFS. Are people that fucking dumb? That fucking brutal? Think how we would react. Then imagine hearing some bored shitless, smarmy, smug relative of the sleezy, brute like british liars, who didn't mind one bit sidling in, and enjoying the spoils of 'good 'ol uncle whitey's 'work' telling you ('as long as ya really are a fuckin' real darky, not one of them milky ones') to get a job, it will fix everything? WTF? To do this, as one of good 'ol uncle indo's clan, that clan with the exploding depression and suicide rates, to do as the now stuffed and corked good 'ol uncle blowie lovingly, with a sweep of his olive branch described it:

'created by the folks sitting in a chair , facing a computer under flouro lights and performing tasks that don't interest them, for people they resent , for upwards of 8 hours a day ?

5 days a week.

49 weeks of the year.

Who have fallen into nasty habits.'),'

'created by the folks sitting in a chair , facing a computer under flouro lights and performing tasks that don't interest them, for people they resent , for upwards of 8 hours a day ?

5 days a week.

49 weeks of the year.

Who have fallen into nasty habits.'),

You fucking shallow, thick headed, rednecked racist peanut. Sitting there bored shitless, but deeply bored shitless.

You, again, ask me what to do? For the umpteenth time, shut the fuck up about telling Indigenous Australians why they are fucked, and how to live, just like your good 'ol uncle whitey. You fucking honesty think that they don't know what is happening? You think that they will instantly fix everything. Despite in just 200 years, and being on the totally other end of the horrific shit our forefathers committed against Indigenous Australians, and still are, our failure to in the slightest deal with the disasters and epidemics we created, and still are. So, again shut the fuck up, listen to what Indigenous Australians are asking, really listen, deeply, sincerely, put yourself in their shoes, and do the foundational thing that will give them a start, a chance, a foundation. And that will give us a better foundation than the sleazy crap that we call our 'founding'. Self determination. How many times do they have to say it. Shut the fuck up, sit bored shitless in silence and think. Deeper. Than google even. And think about this while you are at it. Because I don't know many places, in fact this might be the only one, where you can get away with mouthing off this blatant, red necked, racist drivvle.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Ban alcohol dave? The Nunga's know its abuse is a problem. They are doing their best. Its not want they want. Or ask for. Despite being on the end of the horror story I described above. Maybe if we showed an example of us, our society fixing our alcohol abuse epidemic, (then we could start on the ice one, the amphetamines one, then the obesity one, then the depression one, then the suicide one, then the fucking budget losses, then the... aaaar farrkkk ooorfff, give 'us a farking beer... and a farking billy... fark wot do them pills do, chuck us a coupla them) created in just 200 odd years, and despite being the victors of the spoils, they would notice. Otherwise its just more of that fucking white noise.

Self determination, its the truthful, honorable, right thing to do. And then, if you really must judge Indigenous Australians, do it with their boots on. I think they've had a real good good taste of good 'ol uncle whiteys boots for long enough. But just like some people love setting fire to cats, some people love being rednecked, racist, drivvling cunts.

'I can't believe nobody came up with the old line.

"It doesn't matter how much milk you put in coffee it's still coffee"

Which well is not true at some point it just becomes coffee flavour milk.'

Fucking pea nuts.

Herc is on acid, surely?

https://m.

.

Self determination.

Ah, swillnuttin triple decker blowie, just a nuttin' fly speck! Again! No substance! Ha, yeh, just thought I'd bring ya down off the wall for a bit of fun. Stuffed and corked blowie. Gotya, too easy. Now you shot your big, no substance, drivvling mouth off again. With nothing but flyspecks to back it again. So you bring up insane? You? This guy, that manically assaulted and attempted to murder some surfee over some self described shitty, no nothing wave. Really?

https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/12736

'That was when the madness set in. I looked at the blue sky and the white sand and realty, or unreality, set in. I started to blather, i could not tell you for certain what i was saying but it was lost mans dribble refering to the beautiful day and how this cunt had destroyed it with malicious intent. He started to walk along the beach cursing me over his shoulder, i think he saw in me something that i was not consciously aware of myself and his desire for confrontation was gone.
We walked in lock step along the beach as though to jump back off the point, myself slightly behind, fermenting, when we reached his friends. His bravado reappeared, turning to face me he addressed his friends, a half dozen guys and girls staked out against the wire guarding the dunes, he described my crimes as a blowin, an unwelcome abhorration, i saw the girls sneer as i raved about being from somewhere else, somewhere where people are judged on their merits in the surf. I recollect displeasure on their faces when they realised i wasn't from a city with inferior waves to theirs.
Then the red mist came over me
It was the assumed resentment of the women that really got me.
The smug superiority of some small minded no- one cunt moll that set me off. I turned to face Loud Mouth in front of his cunting piece of shit friends and with every ounce of will ,energy and misdirected anger from every point of my life i drove my fist into that cunt's putrid face and punched him to the sand.
I was standing over Loud Mouth's form bellowing that he was an imposter king presiding over a weak, gay wave, raising my fist for another blow when i realised my hand was broken . Then i heard a lady screaming and i was back in my head, concious of what i'd done , aware of where i was.
Loud Mouth was not cowering , but all fight had left the man. He was submissive but i was not gracious. Thank fuck i did not have a gun cause if i did i would have shot the cunt. The only thing that stopped me from kicking him till he twitched was some chick throwing herself over his prostrate form.'

Insane you said? Before you ran away again. Then you mouthed off more, drivvled some more swillnuttin doubledecker blowie, before ya ran away... again. Like last time. Except now, the stakes are higher. Just like the real world. Its different to being a swillnuttin double decker drivelling blowie, in the real world ya gotta have some substance, if ya gonna squwark drivvle, So, I brought ya down off the wall, you popped ya cork, just like I figured. Its $200 Grand now blowie, you already got publicly owned, shit ya pants and ran off last time. Dead man talking. Again. So, whats it gonna be swillnuttin double decker drivelling blowie, ya gonna go? Ya gonna come out into the real world? Just for once in your maggoty life? Just once, back that mouth. $200 grand. That's nothing for a world traveler like you? Its ok, I already knew the answer... always have son. Dead man talking. Back up on the wall you go. This time with a cork in each end, swillnuttin double decker no substance drivelling blowie. Be a good boy and disappear... again. And again, peabrain, I'll show ya again ya thick headed fly speck, this is how to post videos, dimwit. Time to go to work again son.

Gotta love ya wrasslin', its a sign of an advanced, progressive society! Crack a coldy and away ya go!

Or in the clan's new recruit, lil' weenie's case, just do some acid! Run out lil' wee wee? Puttin' the feelers out to the clan? I'm no good to ya son, never needed it.

Leftism is a mental illness

Just as i thought Herc, Herc has no answers or solutions to problems Aboriginal people face, you don't actually want to talk about these issues, you just go on and on about the same things, that part of the topic is done let's just agree to disagree on those things.(what it may have been like before white fella came)

Although first i must say you obviously totally missed the point about me trying to bring some balance and a more accurate picture of how Aboriginal people lived before white fella came, it was in no way to paint them as savages or war mongering race, it was to try to bring some balance and show that it wasn't all roses and a garden of edan, it would have been a hard life, a short life, with positives but also negatives and I'm sure very few Aboriginal would swap todays lifestyle for one from that period, and the evidence is there in the fact that if any do its very very few.

Basically your above post is just another post full of name calling and abuse trying to make me look like a racist with no evidence to back it up, clinging onto a classic cliché leftie metaphors that i posted. (that i don't even agree with)

Id honestly like to hear how the problems faced by Aboriginal Australians today should be dealt with? (both in remote community's and citys and regional areas where the majority of Aboriginal people live)

And if your stance is that signing a treaty will fix all these issues then explain how?

And it's a total cop out to just say let them decide, yeah sure if that's your stance, you still need to explain how you think they may or should do it.

Explain how these Aboriginal problems should be dealt with or worked towards solving?

- High levels of alcohol abuse
-Higher rate of health problems than non Aboriginal communities
- Shorter life expediency
- High suicide rates
- High rates of domestic violence
-High rate of sexual based violence
-High rate of child abuse and sexual abuse of children
-Poor education levels
-Very high unemployment
-Low home ownership rates compared to general population.
- Very high incarnation rates in our prison system
- Race based stereo types (and the struggle against these)
- General racism, disadvantage, division
(any others you can think of?)

I think you also need to acknowledge and explain how these problems should be dealt with in remote communities and regional and city areas, as although sometimes the solutions may work in both, most in most cases they will need to be dealt with differently

And once again don't just cop out and say it's not your place to say or it's for Aboriginal people to decide, after all you seem to think you are an expert of Aboriginal matters and a spokes person for Aboriginal people (who "cough, cough" apparently all share the same view)

Surely in your three years of study, you must have studied this area and possible solutions?

Without any feedback, all i can gather from your post is that your answer to these problems is Aboriginal people should be left alone to live how they like and sort these problems out and be seperate from the rest of Australia and the system we have in place, i assume this includes not be part of our laws, tax system and funding for Aboriginal issues and communities?

Intersted in how that would work?

Oh and is it to much to ask for you to maybe do it in a civil mature way without the name calling or abuse?

Name calling and abuse is easy especially when done online to people you have never met, anyone can do that, sometimes i even feel the urge in frustration, but IMO it's really pointless and adds nothing to the discussion, just like silly videos posted to mock others.