Australian churches, Victoria, Qld, ACT, New Zealand offer sanctuary to asylum seekers

From the article i posted (believe its fairly newly built)

“Treatment will be provided at the Pacific International hospital, which is Papua New Guinea’s leading private hospital, providing high quality care. If the necessary medical treatment is not available in PNG, the government of Nauru may seek alternative arrangements guided by health professionals.”

http://www.pihpng.com

If you look at the doctors profiles they are generally western doctors most trained in Australia or USA.

If the government was smart they would also be negotiating with other governments like Singapore and Thailand who have some of the best medical facilities in the world.

A fella I know got his teeth fixed in Thailand.

Excellent job.

He's now got the fused front teeth look of a parrot fish.

indo-dreaming wrote:

From the article i posted (believe its fairly newly built)

“Treatment will be provided at the Pacific International hospital, which is Papua New Guinea’s leading private hospital, providing high quality care. If the necessary medical treatment is not available in PNG, the government of Nauru may seek alternative arrangements guided by health professionals.”

http://www.pihpng.com

If you look at the doctors profiles they are generally western doctors most trained in Australia or USA.

If the government was smart they would also be negotiating with other governments like Singapore and Thailand who have some of the best medical facilities in the world.

....... well, actually I did check everyone of those doctor profiles and while 2 seemed to have study or work experience in AU I also noted 11 did not have any image posted and the vast majority of doctors, including a husband and wife cardiologist duo seem to have come from either Indian or the Philippines.

Blowin wrote:

A fella I know got his teeth fixed in Thailand.

Excellent job.

He's now got the fused front teeth look of a parrot fish.

....... gold

Blowin wrote:

A fella I know got his teeth fixed in Thailand.

Excellent job.

He's now got the fused front teeth look of a parrot fish.

To be honest i was actually surprised but if you google "best hospitals in the world, or top medical care in the world" etc Thailand regularly comes up and Singapore is renowned for its level of care.

I guess this is due to the fact although in most developing countries possibly 99% of hospitals, medical care and doctors are pretty crap to down right dodgy.

Many third world countries also have a percentage of the population that are richer than rich and only want the best, if the country won't provide it they will go to another country for medical care that will.

Ive seen this first hand in Indonesia when a very well off Indonesian i know in Jakarta was in hospital and i visited him, and i was totally blown away by the facilities and service, made everything I've seen in the Aussie public system look and feel like country practice.

Anyway its all beside the point, its quite obvious it was a huge mistake to allow them to come to Australia when they should have gone to Port moresby, i just can't believe they didn't see what was coming…but yeah i guess we can only assume the PNG thing didn't come through.

Sheepdog wrote:

All of this.... 11 pages now.... All in defending putting babies in detention....

Who's the monster, the person like me that believes now the child is here it should be looked after until better and then sent back with the parents, or the person like you who because of ignorant idealistic views is willing to put many more children in danger of become pawns?

Same goes for the refugee issue.

Who's the monster, me who feels people should all be treated equally on deciding who should be allowed in under our refugee quota or you and your view that money should be the factor that decides and those who can afford the journey and pay people smugglers should gain advantage over those that can not.

Your not compassionate, your just ignorant unfair and cruel…much closer to a monster than i am.

What's the point of raising a topic if all you want is one page of people agreeing with you.

Gents, our good labor mate, bob Carr has said a few words on this - suggest read them.

Sheepdog

You are spot on with what you are saying
There is so much i could say but i cant that would back you up 10 fold.

Told you 100 times Sheepdog, I'm not interested in discussing the topic of politics and war in the middle east because its a separate topic that i don't know much about, only what I've read, like i said ideally id much prefer we keep out of wars that don't really involve us but understand the issues are much more complex than that.

You also don't really know much about it, but your are a know it all, the truth is you know jack shit about middle east affairs and politics or what's best, all you know is what you have read which is mostly just journalist opinions that we both know are often not correct.

Unless you have been to the middle east and lived with the people and seen what really happening its always hard to really get a proper picture of things and actually be in a position to have an educated opinion.

Have you even been to the middle east?

I do know one thing about the middle east though and thats they have been fighting since biblical times and possibly always will, and even if we all just go ok we are not getting involved they will still fight over something and we will continue to have refuges.

And i also know refuges don't just come from the middle east, they come from many others areas of the world depending on events, be it Africa, Asia, or even places like Fiji.

Your view is just a typical western one, that you know best and know whats happening..blah blah blah

Yes there is no queue but we do have a limited refugee intake, and no matter what way you look at it if you process those that get here by boat (or plane) you basing the system on wealth which will alway be unfair.

And no id actually like those in Naru and Manus settled ASAP (just not Aust), I'm sick to death of the far left making an issue about them and thinking they are living in some hell or concentration camp…funny they don't want to leave hell to live in PNG or Cambodia good enough for millions but not good enough for country shoppers.

That's true to a certain extent I haven't been to Manus or Naru so i will give you that, hence yes there is many unknowns and yes many facts I'm certain gets distorted by the media.

We do know things about Manus and Naru that aren't just opinions there facts, like we know they have electricity, toilets, running water, get free meals, medical care etc

All of this is much more than hundreds of millions around the world have including some of my best friends in Indonesia.

We also know if they hadn't paid people smugglers they wouldn't be there.

But comparing that to the issue of politics in the middle east is crazy, the issues in the middle east are extremely complex, it probably one of the most complex places on earth, to understand many of the issues you first need to understand the history of the past, have a good understanding of the religious aspect, and just how the society and people operate and think, thats not something you can learn or understand from new articles or even a book.

Sheepdog wrote:

Indo...
Barber..... My solution? You're kidding right? Open your fat eyelids bro.... I written my "solution" about a dozen times here....Oh and yes we have gangs bashing refugees, raping them and getting the women pregnant, then denying them abortions.... yes.... The streets of Port Headland or Darwin are just like Nauru....
Sieg Heil..

BTW. I forgot to reply to this the other day..you think you have the solution?..what a joke you don't have the solution.

Your idea of taking refugees from near the problem is a good one, its actually no different to my idea of taking our intake of refugees from camps, only difference is your concerned with those who become refuges now and forgetting and don't give a shit about people in camps(out of sight out of mind), while I'm taking a wait your turn approach which I've always been taught is the fair thing to do and though others were also taught this?

But still its a step in the right direction..but its not a solution, it doesn't stop refugees trying to get Australia especially if you don't have a turn back boat policy.

You can never take all the refugees its just not realistic from a social, economic and environmental point of view, like it or not there will always be more and there will always be people trying to get to Aust, even with deterrents, even i admit with a policy like the turn back boat policy you will still have the odd boat trying to make the journey.

And if your not going to turn back boats, you still have the problem of what to do with people if you accept them, and what ever you do it's going to determine how many more are behind them, and how many being them, and behind them, every angle action has a reaction in this.

So no you don't have the solution…you have a good idea and a step in the right direction yes, because your plan ensures we would actually be taking true refuges and your system is fair because it treats people equally and doesn't give priority to people based on wealth, but you still have all the problems we currently have or have had.

Yeah I'm sure he has a much better idea than both of us, but I'm sure there is others that also have first hand experience with completely different views, thats life.

End of the day the middle east will always be a basket case and we will alway have refugees from there and elsewhere, doesn't change the issues at this end.

Anyway heres another idea similar to before but different..

1. Part from the refugee convention which causes a lot of issue's (wait kep an open mind there is a reason for this).

2. If possible, if the experts can crunch the numbers and give the nod double our yearly refugee intake, to show we are still serious about the issue and to shut up the far left that will whinge because we have parted from the refugee convention.

3. Continue the turn back boat policy (try to get Indonesia involved with helping with this and now we are not signed to the refugee convention, you would think they would not need to allow people a safe passage to get to a country signed to the refugee convention and could turn them back at entry points).

4. Negotiate with countries near conflict areas that have refugee camps and work on a similar scheme to the Malaysian solution where for every refugee that does happen to slip through by boat, we take ten from camps in their country. (what countries we negotiate with could vary with current problems/war etc to help ease of pressure on these countries, but ideally the premise would always be the longest waiting receives priority, one moves out one moves in)

Now since we have also parted from the refugee convention we can also deal with those who arrive by plane, mostly those that enter on other visas then latter claim refugee status, these people can then be sent to the refugee camp with the country we negotiate with and in return we take ten refugees.

If by the end of the year we have not reached our refuge intake quota we then can take the remaining number of refuges from the countries camps we are dealing with.

This system deals with all the issues.

1. Border Control & quarantine risk.

2. It ensures all our refugees are taken from refugee camps and does not discriminate based on class or how much money they have.

3. It deals with the boat people issue but does not ignore the issue of those arriving by plane, again it creates and equal playing field, and only refugees stay in refugee camp so reduces the risk of economic migrants slipping through.

4. Offshore detention centres of Naru and Manus should be able to be closed down as no longer needed, Xmas can remain for emergency influxes or other immigration issues, overstays etc.

On top of that start a program in our region to deal with and prepare for problems of rising sea water where islands in the future will go under (place like Maldives or Pacific in our region), so rather than deal with the problem latter help with relocation projects or where no relocation options are available allow the option to relocate to Australia, this could be separate intake but a low figure….the idea being we deal with the problem now rather than have the pressure and problem in the future, like a made last scramble.

This is a really good read 100% agree .

Baby Asha decision sets a risky precedent

Written by Steve Stankevicius is a Brisbane doctor in neuropsychiatry.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/baby-asha-decision-sets-a--risky--preceden...

Ha ha…hard to swallow the truth Sheepdog, he is not dehumanizing a whole group of people, he is not saying they all will do it, but he is taking off your rose coloured western glasses and telling you the risk is real.

The same risk a few pages back i pointed out.

Sheepdog wrote:

What truth Indo? If you had've read my links, you'll see the last report on those in detention harming babies was an outright lie, as backed by a full inquiry.... You'll take the word of a rogue phsyche, but not the word of the president of the Australian medical association? At least the president of the AMA is standing by the hippocratic oath, unlike little mr lib supporting shrink....

But let's subconsciously paint these people as inhuman, the type of people that harm children.... It's easier to stomach what we're doing to the babies then, right? Filthy... Dirty.... Saying they MIGHT harm babies whilst we ARE harming babies.... I'll take off my rose coloured western glasses if you take off gestapo jacket..

i read both stories and didnt see anything about government lies.....transfield lied. a report was leaked and then the government took rash hasty action on that information. they may well deserve to be sued for their actions, but they never lied.

who lied again? oh thats right...the government. get it straight.

hey....dont try to appeal to my friendly side..... ;)

well, maybe i am gullible. there is one aspect of the governments so called "operation" which is appalling and thats the secrecy of it. whether its withoutholding enquiry reports, or actively suppressing information flow, or just plain lying, it just not on. the people of australia deserve the right to judge a government on its actions. we are supposed to be living in a democracy with high levels of freedom. second, third, fourth hand reports leaked out of government is just not good enough.

most people are smart enough to understand quite complex issues if they are provided the information.

ive wondered in the past and i wonder now if human population on this world is some tragedy whereby our reproductive desire to ever populate the world becomes our end fate. kindof like bacteria on a wounded animal whereby it multiplies and multiplies consuming the host until it dies and then so do the bacteria. the over investing in science for science sake is absurd, like we think we can solve all the worlds problems with it, hunger, disease?

the matter of refugees is not just one of humanity, it is one of sheer scale too. how much has human overpopulation contributed to these problems. at the end of the day our war is about resources and desire to have and to hold. i think that humanity has already exceeded its practical limit of population and the ethics of economic growth versus population size needs to be debunked and re-examined.

or maybe the best thing for humanity is just another world war?

Sheepdog wrote:

Happy..... "most people are smart enough to understand quite complex issues if they are provided the information."

Ok, mate...... We'll look at your angle on "who lied again? oh thats right...the government. get it straight."... Or in other words, it was soley transfield, and the government were "innocent pawns to those nasty transield liars"........
Now, this is quite complex, but as you said, most people will be smart enough...... Are you ready? lol

Firstly, a background on transfield..... They use a lobby group to secure contracts from the Australian Government.... That's fair enough, right?......
Well, "PREMIER STATE CONSULTING" is the lobbying company that acts on behalf of Transfield Services...
http://pstate.com.au/

Who owns this lobbying group, you may well ask, Happy?.................. have a look at the founder and owners name...... His name is Michael Photios..... Michael Photios was the NSW Vice President of the Liberal party and Urban Representative on the Liberal Party State Executive.. He also held the seats of Ryde, and Ermington... He was also a MINISTER, with 2 portfolios, on the front bench.... Photios was Minister for Multicultural and Ethnic Affairs and Minister Assisting the Minister for Justice from 26 May 1993 to 4 Apr 1995...
http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/political-fixers/michael-photios

You still with me , Happy?....... So here we have a lobbying group run by a lifelong Liberal member, doing the bidding for transfield, to a Liberal government...... Gee..... No wonder they won the contract aye?

Now onto the time line about the "child abuse" accusations from transfield, One of Liberal Michael Photio's prime clients....

Oct 2, 2014 - "Ten Save the Children staff are accused of coaching asylum seekers to self-harm in an internal report by the other service provider on the island, Transfield. The six employees who are on the island are removed"

March 20, 2015 - Staff are cleared.. "The independent review chaired by Philip Moss clears Save the Children staff of any fabricated abuse allegations or coaching. It also finds evidence of sexual abuse in detention centre."

May 15, 2015 - not happy with that, The Immigration Department, headed by Peter Dutton, commissions an independent report by the Adjunct Professor Christopher M Doogan in response to the Moss report.

Oct 15 2015 - Save the Children office raided by "Australian Border force" and Nauru police.. laptops seized..

Oct 28, 2015 - Low and behold, those who falsely reported "save the children", Transfield, represented by the Liberal Michael Photios, is granted the contract Save the Children used to handle; transfield changes it's name to "Broadspectrum"..
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/transfield-confirms-contract-ex...

Jan 15, 2016... The second review (Doogan report), the one Dutton ordered coz he didn't like the answer of the first one, and if he had've accepted it back in march 2015, Transfields bid for a contract extension may have been put in limbo, well,,,, the second review AGREES with the first review " the Doogan report is made public. It says Save the Children workers should receive compensation and that their removal was not justified."

Feb 22 2016 Save the children staff sue the Government - "Lawyers for nine Save The Children workers lodge to seek compensation from the Federal Government for nearly $1 million for the loss of income, pain and humiliation the forced removal caused."

Did you follow all that, Happy?........ Good thing I bought Transfield shares back in Sept when the writing was on the wall hey buddy...... FFS...
So noooooooo.... Those Libs had nothing to do with it...... Yeah.... Right......

happy to take your account and background as truth....look...ive not no desire to see refugees held by a private company. i asked that question back in this thread. it definetely crap. humanity and treating people right is at odds with profit seeking and the two cannot coincide happily without strict governance which is kindof hard to do when your camp is in another country.

Sheepdog wrote:

What truth Indo? If you had've read my links, you'll see the last report on those in detention harming babies was an outright lie, as backed by a full inquiry.... You'll take the word of a rogue phsyche, but not the word of the president of the Australian medical association? At least the president of the AMA is standing by the hippocratic oath, unlike little mr lib supporting shrink....

But let's subconsciously paint these people as inhuman, the type of people that harm children.... It's easier to stomach what we're doing to the babies then, right? Filthy... Dirty.... Saying they MIGHT harm babies whilst we ARE harming babies.... I'll take off my rose coloured western glasses if you take off gestapo jacket..

Your a classic Sheepdog, trying to change the subject with those other links and make it into something else because you know that the article is 100% true and by allowing this child to stay in Aust would set an extremely danger precedent.

BTW. Ive seen reports in the media that apparently she told a guard she did it on purpose, but even though we don't know for sure i think we have to be fair and assume it was an accident and to me it seems a bit weird she would tell a guard anyway.

BTW. Sheepdog sometimes you make me frustrated because i think you just like to disagree just for the sake of it, id be really surprised if you honestly couldn't see the risk and precedent it sets, but i do have to say i respect that even though you can give it, you can also take it, and especially the fact you don't get frustrated and start name calling etc even when i push things a little to the edge.

Sheepdog wrote:

happyasS wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

Happy..... "most people are smart enough to understand quite complex issues if they are provided the information."

Ok, mate...... We'll look at your angle on "who lied again? oh thats right...the government. get it straight."... Or in other words, it was soley transfield, and the government were "innocent pawns to those nasty transield liars"........
Now, this is quite complex, but as you said, most people will be smart enough...... Are you ready? lol

Firstly, a background on transfield..... They use a lobby group to secure contracts from the Australian Government.... That's fair enough, right?......
Well, "PREMIER STATE CONSULTING" is the lobbying company that acts on behalf of Transfield Services...
http://pstate.com.au/

Who owns this lobbying group, you may well ask, Happy?.................. have a look at the founder and owners name...... His name is Michael Photios..... Michael Photios was the NSW Vice President of the Liberal party and Urban Representative on the Liberal Party State Executive.. He also held the seats of Ryde, and Ermington... He was also a MINISTER, with 2 portfolios, on the front bench.... Photios was Minister for Multicultural and Ethnic Affairs and Minister Assisting the Minister for Justice from 26 May 1993 to 4 Apr 1995...
http://www.thepowerindex.com.au/political-fixers/michael-photios

You still with me , Happy?....... So here we have a lobbying group run by a lifelong Liberal member, doing the bidding for transfield, to a Liberal government...... Gee..... No wonder they won the contract aye?

Now onto the time line about the "child abuse" accusations from transfield, One of Liberal Michael Photio's prime clients....

Oct 2, 2014 - "Ten Save the Children staff are accused of coaching asylum seekers to self-harm in an internal report by the other service provider on the island, Transfield. The six employees who are on the island are removed"

March 20, 2015 - Staff are cleared.. "The independent review chaired by Philip Moss clears Save the Children staff of any fabricated abuse allegations or coaching. It also finds evidence of sexual abuse in detention centre."

May 15, 2015 - not happy with that, The Immigration Department, headed by Peter Dutton, commissions an independent report by the Adjunct Professor Christopher M Doogan in response to the Moss report.

Oct 15 2015 - Save the Children office raided by "Australian Border force" and Nauru police.. laptops seized..

Oct 28, 2015 - Low and behold, those who falsely reported "save the children", Transfield, represented by the Liberal Michael Photios, is granted the contract Save the Children used to handle; transfield changes it's name to "Broadspectrum"..
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/transfield-confirms-contract-ex...

Jan 15, 2016... The second review (Doogan report), the one Dutton ordered coz he didn't like the answer of the first one, and if he had've accepted it back in march 2015, Transfields bid for a contract extension may have been put in limbo, well,,,, the second review AGREES with the first review " the Doogan report is made public. It says Save the Children workers should receive compensation and that their removal was not justified."

Feb 22 2016 Save the children staff sue the Government - "Lawyers for nine Save The Children workers lodge to seek compensation from the Federal Government for nearly $1 million for the loss of income, pain and humiliation the forced removal caused."

Did you follow all that, Happy?........ Good thing I bought Transfield shares back in Sept when the writing was on the wall hey buddy...... FFS...
So noooooooo.... Those Libs had nothing to do with it...... Yeah.... Right......

happy to take your account and background as truth....look...ive not no desire to see refugees held by a private company. i asked that question back in this thread. it definetely crap. humanity and treating people right is at odds with profit seeking and the two cannot coincide happily without strict governance which is kindof hard to do when your camp is in another country.

Mate, the timeline was cut and pasted from the earlier link, the abc link you derived your transfield comment from.. Here it is again;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/timeline-save-the-children-workers...

And here's the government confirming that Michael Photios's Premier State Consulting handles the Transfield account..

http://lobbyists.pmc.gov.au/register/view_agency.cfm?id=516

I'm not making this shit up on the fly, Happy...... All there in black and white.... I'm glad you believe me, but there should be no doubt....
I'd like to know if i the shrink that wrote the article Indo posted is somehow involved.... But I've done enough digging for this week....

Needless to say, I don't believe one fucking word that comes out of the Libs mouth when it comes to detention..... And when "private companies" are handled and lobbied by Liberal party members, there's a direct conflict of interest... And when such companies have been proven liars, by not one but two enquiries, and the Libs still give them the contract, questions have to be asked about governance.

as they say, the truth is always out there. so nice digging on the background. there is no doubt conflict of interest going on.

on a lighter note, something from earlier today.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/hitler-micropenis-histori...

makes you wonder how many wars were caused by blokes upset about their small wangs.

Sheepdog wrote:

"Your a classic Sheepdog, trying to change the subject with those other links and make it into something else because you know that the article is 100% true and by allowing this child to stay in Aust would set an extremely danger precedent."

What precedent?

"We don't talk about operational matters".... Isn't that the governments rhetoric?

Are you telling me that baby, or several babies, or 100 babies could not be secretly moved here? It seems the government WILL talk about operational matters when it suits their spin.....

"I've seen reports in the media that a guy's cousin in Darwin whose mum went shopping and the cab driver heard that a mate of his that was fishing spoke to a bloke whose wife has a sister whose friend works on the island reckons that apparently she told a guard she did it on purpose"....... FFS....

Chinese whispers..... Put the link up, indo......
Mate, I'd still have a coffee and yarn with ya...... No dramas.... I just disagree with you sooooo strongly on this one..... And I still think you will regret your stance one day..... And I'll be there telling you I told you so ;)

What Precedent?….I thought you read it thats what its all about. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/baby-asha-decision-sets-a--risky--preceden...

I think this is the article (anyway if not its got the same line/info in it) http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/02/23/dutton-accused-dirty-asylu...

"On Tuesday, News Corp reported that an immigration department guard claimed the mother had confessed to deliberately harming the child - sparking a child protection notification."

I think 1000% refugees are getting coached to do certain things i think no matter what your view on this issue you would be crazy not to think this.

BUT id really like to believe no one would be that stupid to coach or even put it in a refugees head to do such a thing as burning their baby (but god knows, some of those far left people are complete nut cases ), but like i said id like to believe this has not happened and i don't think its fair to suggest it has when their is no evidence of it.

I think its very different currently because their is no precedent set the government has been pretty clear under no circumstance will these people be settled in Australia, and it would be a very big long shot to think otherwise.

Refugees tiny issue in the scheme of whats happening bit of a false flag.

Sheepdog wrote:

"But comparing that to the issue of politics in the middle east is crazy,"

It's not a bloody "comparison", mate..... You yourself supplied a link showing the vast amount of those in detention are from Iraq and Afghanistan, 2 wars WE WERE and ARE involved in.... So.... It's not a comparison... It's a side effect from the wars.... Therefore if you can't get your head around the "cut", there's no use whinging about where the "blood" trickles..... War creates refugees, Indo... You don't need a bachelor in Middle east history to know that.... Remember Vietnam?

Now, Indo.. Yes I haven't been to the Middle east... But this guy has... Not only has he been, he's a war veteran... Former U.S marine.... Served in gulf war 1 - the "bush senior war"... he has a better idea on the mess than you and me..

I didn't bother watching this vid the other day, but if popped up on my FB today.

Not saying it's not true, i have no idea..but the suggested related videos beneath it were all conspiracy theories on 9/11 etc.

False flags etc are all conspiracy theories they may be true not saying they aren't, some conspiracy theories I'm sure are true but most aren't.

BTW. Sheepdog you should listen to http://www.rrr.org.au/program/on-the-blower/ I rarely agree with his political views, but i like his no bullshit approach style he has and he can play some good music, many of the things you post are exactly the same views he has.

Wharfjunkie wrote:

Refugees tiny issue in the scheme of whats happening bit of a false flag.

I'd argue the issue is tied to our own sense of humanity and therefore quite important.

mk1, agree x2

mk1 wrote:

Wharfjunkie wrote:

Refugees tiny issue in the scheme of whats happening bit of a false flag.

I'd argue the issue is tied to our own sense of humanity and therefore quite important.

humanity both includes compassion and also selfishness. has and always will. both describe our nature. humans have intelligence but we are still animals. all animals have a sense of self - and without some selfishness they perish. so those that would have you believe that our actions towards the refugees are somehow evil or borne out of hate just don't understand human nature.

sheepdog made a good point earlier that its highly likely too many australians are so far removed from conflict that they simply dont understand it and therefore cannot feel empathy towards those fleeing. i know from my germany heritage that many germans (even young ones) still feel very ashamed of the atrocities of the nazi regime and the holocaust. those stories get passed down. plus many germans had to flee too. so maybe sheepdog is right and they just understand it better than us, and the past atrocities spur the need to be more compassionate. some sense of historical guilt might be even in there too.

of course germany is part of the EU too, is a much bigger economy, and manufacturers shit. as such when refugee influx goes balls up (like at the moment) merkel just holds her hand out asking for money. jobs creation is much easier because of their economy. australia on the other hand has to rely on itself. we cannot send the refugees anywhere else easily and we have little regional assistance.

Sheepdog wrote:

"I think 1000% refugees are getting coached to do certain things i think no matter what your view on this issue you would be crazy not to think this."

Bullshit...... Absolute bullshit.....
Go back and read what I posted to happy about not one but TWO enquiries prooving it to be total fabrication.... You want to believe it so you feel better about your stance....
Thanks to the insinuations by Dutton, reports are out now that people "believe" Asha's mum burnt her on purpose..... The tar brush is the oldest tactic out there.... And you'r helping the smear..
You should be ashamed, Indo..

You honestly believe that????

The reality is sometimes its very hard to prove these things, its basically trying to prove a conversation happened which i often virtually impossible.

BTW. I've said a few times now in this instance i don't think (or would really like to believe) that nobody would be so stupid to coach someone to do something so drastic and harmful to a child.

But 1000% refugee have been coaxed in other ways.

happyasS wrote:

mk1 wrote:

Wharfjunkie wrote:

Refugees tiny issue in the scheme of whats happening bit of a false flag.

I'd argue the issue is tied to our own sense of humanity and therefore quite important.

humanity both includes compassion and also selfishness. has and always will. both describe our nature. humans have intelligence but we are still animals. all animals have a sense of self - and without some selfishness they perish. so those that would have you believe that our actions towards the refugees are somehow evil or borne out of hate just don't understand human nature.

By our "humanity" I am using the colloquial reference to the better parts of our nature we aspire towards, IE. being "humane", rather than raw human psychology.

Oh please….You know it happens i know it happens everyone knows it happens, its quite obvious.

Coax=persuade (someone) gradually or gently to do something.

It's basically teaching refugees how to go about things how to get what they want how to use the system, especially how to use the media, how to sway the public opinion and I'm sure push the limits, some of it can be blatantly telling them how to do things other times it might be suggesting things in a round about way its very easy sometimes to get a message across to someone sometimes without actually directly saying what your really want to say.

If the people batting for the refugees weren't coaxing they wouldn't be doing a very good job it's to be expected.

The question is not are refugees coaxed, we know that's a sure thing.

The question is how far are refugees coaxed?…. that's the unknown.

haven't heard from boy band barbie for a while, 3 days in fact, wonders never cease ....

You can never totally stop the boats i think even the government would know this, but the boats departing Indonesia are way way down.

I think I've already said this, but anyone who doesn't believe the boats have reduced dramatically should actually sit down an think about things.

People smuggling boat departs Indonesia, generally West Java, South Sumatra region (no no not Krui in the strait)

Gets turned back, has no choice but to go back to where it came, refugees go back to where they were staying normally where other refugees stay, i haven't visited it but apparently there is an area in West java, a community many hang.

Guess what they talk to each, they also have phones.

And guess what they are going to say?….It's no point we got turned back and the people smugglers wouldn't give our money back (why would they after spending time and fuel and taking the risk)

Now your telling me others are going to go, oh okay nah we are still going to try, lets just blow some cash.

Nope the majority will wait for a change of policy or government or a sign like refugees in detention settled in Australia to try again.

BTW. Sri Lanka boat different deal and i believe only the odd one try anyway, but it will be going back and word will spread.

The drowning at sea thing is just political parties using the issue against each other, its nothing more its a tiny slice of the pie in the overall issue.

The reality is the boat made it down to Aussie waters, so it can make it back, there is boats like thee ones refugees use going all over the place everyday i often travel on exactly the same boats, it seems like a big deal but in their world it's not a big deal, the reality is its probably just a dangerous traveling on an Asian road.

BTW. I don't actually believe that you don't believe refugees are coaxed, i don't think your that gullible, i think its just for arguments sake.

We both know it happens, but we both know its impossible to prove, unless someone from either side admits they have either been coaxed or coaxed.

Sheepdog wrote:

And the boats haven't stopped.... This secretive government just doesn't allow the reporting of arrivals, that's all.... Total deception..... But one arrival somehow snuck past dutton to the news media.... The article says the Dutton's goons were able to come to the conclusion that the sri lankans weren't refugees out there in the middle of the ocean.... maybe they weren't flying a tamil flag.... Who knows.... But the interesting thing is that Dutton gave the order to turn the boat around and pointed it towards Sri lanka....

But wait!!!!! I thought we were horrified about people drowning at sea??? In the middle of cyclone season, Dutton points the boat around...... Did it make it back to Sri lanka? Who cares.... Right Indo? lol

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/02/23/asylum-seeker-boat-turned-...

dunno about boats still coming sd. not arguing right or wrong here, just some facts i know of.....during the howard era it came to light that only 4 boats were ever turned around. at the time a navy captain who was actually at sea said that although turning boats seemed acheivable, there were so many issues surrounding safety that after a 24 month program only 4 boats ever got turned back. boats were being deliberately damaged so turnarounds would fail. i would find it hard to believe that things would be much different today. the arrival of boats must be less otherwise there would be a lot more people at manus and nauru, right?

Farkin sad debate. I hate what this country is doing, and denying any responsibility in a war we jumped at the chance to be involved in, right back to little Johnny Howard, man of steel. The rank debate that suggest if we show anyone humanity then everyone will expect it. It's like a competition to see how small we can become.

But the whole refugee problem is a side issue. We apparently have no room for them, but 10-20 times that are coming in on 457 visas that are not very far from corrupt.

I have first hand knowledge of who gets in on these visas, and how easy it is to rort, and it is being rorted left right and centre. So apparently it's ok if you come in by this rort, but not ok if you come in by the other.

We will decide who comes in and the circumstances in which they come in. - Real need to avoid imminent death in a war zone, no way. - Fortunate to be able to get connected through a visa rorting channel, no problem, come on in, take my kids job!

A nation of dupes.

well said batfink