Australian churches, Victoria, Qld, ACT, New Zealand offer sanctuary to asylum seekers

I get it now, sit around at smoko at the desal plant and solve world's problems in a black & white sort of way with all the other overpaid/under worked maintenance crew down there & spend working time on the forums, got ya bro

SD..I guess in a far left fantasy world you could have settled all those refugees, but in the real world called earth, its just a fantasy and not reality.

Yep sadly its grab a ticket but nah, no standing in line, there is no queue, its a lottery and sadly the odds are pretty bad if you don't have the money to enter the detention camp lottery.

SD..I guess in a far left fantasy world you could have settled all those refugees, but in the real world called earth, its just a fantasy and not reality.

Yep sadly its grab a ticket but nah, no standing in line, there is no queue, its a lottery and sadly the odds are pretty bad if you don't have the money to enter the detention camp lottery.

nice work!
you just summed up five pages of arguments in two paragraphs

zenagain wrote:

Read into it anyway you like TT. I haven't lived in Australia for the last decade but the country I do live in is democrattic, safe, prosperous, stable and currently at war with nobody. Their annual refugee intake is (drumroll) -zero.

I happen to agree with Indo.

You're in Japan? Japan got all its military toys taken away after the horrendousness of its WWII shenanigans, yeah? It's brutal, xenophobic, shameful WWII shenanigans. Let bygones be bygones though. Now they're the way to go regarding economic prosperity, political stability, democratic everything AND they have no refugee intake! Cool. And that's 'cos they ain't in any wars so don't feel obliged? Cooler.

And you've been living and working there? So you're a permanent resident/migrant? What about Koreans, Filipinos, even Brazilians? A few of them knocking about all hunky-dory like?

tonybarber wrote:

"Did he stop the drownings ? Who cares".
That says a lot. Prof Triggs would love that one.

Fuck sake. I reckon you love that one, Klaus Barbie.

sypkan wrote:

SD..I guess in a far left fantasy world you could have settled all those refugees, but in the real world called earth, its just a fantasy and not reality.

Yep sadly its grab a ticket but nah, no standing in line, there is no queue, its a lottery and sadly the odds are pretty bad if you don't have the money to enter the detention camp lottery.

nice work!
you just summed up five pages of arguments in two paragraphs

just goes to show where you two are really at and sheepy, as we say, there is no arguing with stupid.

sypkan wrote:

SD..I guess in a far left fantasy world you could have settled all those refugees, but in the real world called earth, its just a fantasy and not reality.

Yep sadly its grab a ticket but nah, no standing in line, there is no queue, its a lottery and sadly the odds are pretty bad if you don't have the money to enter the detention camp lottery.

nice work!
you just summed up five pages of arguments in two paragraphs

There's that one guy indo, well done!

sypkan wrote:

nice work!
you just summed up five pages of arguments in two paragraphs

And with that little effort in camaraderie, you've summed up the decline of Western civilisation (in Australia), the turgid miasma of existence (in Australia), and that hell is truly other (Australian) people. Mainly surfers from NSW and Queensland. And John Howard, Tony Abbott, Andrew Bolt, Pauline Hanson, Gina Rinehart, and Grant Denyer. And Joe Hildebrand. And Michaelia Cash. Pyne. Bernardi. Alan Jones. Brandis. Ray fucken Hadley. Cardinal Pell. Maurice Newman. DUTTON! MORRISON! Sharri Markson. Judith Sloan. Piers Akerman. MIRANDA DEVINE! Ad nauseam. AD INFINITUM!

Where's a fucken Dalek when you need one?

Beam me up, Scotty.

it's a harsh reality

but that's pretty much what we're arguing about

no one likes it, you guys just need to accept you're far left on this spectrum of ideals.

if you stood back a bit you might realise indo d is actully on the left side too.

sypkan wrote:

it's a harsh reality

but that's pretty much what we're arguing about

no one likes it, you guys just need to accept you're far left on this spectrum of ideals.

if you stood back a bit you might realise indo d is actully on the left side too.

Hhhmmm a little left but not too far left, i hate this left right thing…some issues i agree with the right on some i agree with the left on….last election i sure didn't think id be singing the praise on any policy Tony had anything to do with especially in regard to this issue, remember this is the guy that proposed buying back leaky fishing boats, WTF….ever Indo fishing boat is a poorly maintained leaking piece of crap, it would have been funny to see that get policy get through.

And BTW just because i agree with the turn back boat policy doesn't mean i will ever vote Liberal.

I don't think people are stupid for having the view they do, i just think people overlook a lot of issues some quite obvious and maybe think too much with their hearts rather than their heads which a lot of the time isn't a bad thing, but when it comes to running a country its not really that smart.

Sheepdog wrote:

"Far left fantasy world"...... Well.... There you go.... I another thread I am Abbotts biggest fan..... In this thread I am as close to Trotksy as one can get..... Tony trotsky.... That's me......
If you are going to label me, Indo, then expect the same back, mate... I said my solution (those responsible for displacement to man up and take the human wreckage) was commonsense, but that commonsense and politics don't mix, like chlorine and break fluid I said, the reason being is that the resulting carnage and chaos suits certain political agendas.... So yeah.... I aint gonna happen.... Fuckn derrrrr!!!!
If the people fleeing were white christians, I'd expect a quite different Indo....
How did you fell when Abet and Bernadi said we should take the Syrian christians first in the "12000"..... hould the Syrian christians go to your camps and wait 15 to 20 years, or just the muslims?

ha ha…you really don't know me if you think i care about skin colour or religion, many of my good friends are muslim and have chocolate skin and if i enter a room full of people i don't know and there is someone of obvious different race there, i will generally go and talk to that person..ha ha…I've even questioned myself maybe I'm racist because i find ethnic people more interesting and generally have more time for them..

yep I hate the left right thing too, also outdated, but some are insinuating your ideas are the other extreme, far from it, a little too pragmatic perhaps, but it just shows a good understanding of a fast changing world. I dont agree with all you've said, but you haven't said anything outrageous....well maybe except the English thing, but hey that's just my opinion

I'm far left sometimes too, and I get all ouraged and stuff. blinkers on, passion is good, or nothing would change, but you gotta know where you're at in relation to others

Sypo, just so I can get my head around the patois between you and ID, could you paraphrase what have been the pragmatic, sensible, real world ideas/arguments you centrists (?) put forward that everyone with their blinkers on can't accept. And what are the arguments that the far left here have argued that you consider fantasy?

It seems the banality of life needs to be conveniently slotted into 'left', 'right' or 'centre'. Since when does it matter of what political flavour, or race, or religion, or culture you are that you cherish life itself.
There has been ignorance and avoidance of many here, that lives have been saved. It is not difficult to understand, you did not have anything- rights, freedom whatever you wish to think of unless you have a life.
Once you have that then you can improve and help those in need. Saving lives can be easy but helping can be more difficult. Few have offered any ideas here. The past is not the future in this one.

floyd wrote:

I get it now, sit around at smoko at the desal plant and solve world's problems in a black & white sort of way with all the other overpaid/under worked maintenance crew down there & spend working time on the forums, got ya bro

Don't be silly it's an RDO today .... Supplied by the left at a spot ordered by the left , and paid for by the rest of us ...... Sitting there still . More chance it'll flood than run , you know with that global warming and all . That was a genius decision to build that joint at the time and in that spot .... Pure genius

tonybarber wrote:

It seems the banality of life needs to be conveniently slotted into 'left', 'right' or 'centre'. Since when does it matter of what political flavour, or race, or religion, or culture you are that you cherish life itself.
There has been ignorance and avoidance of many here, that lives have been saved. It is not difficult to understand, you did not have anything- rights, freedom whatever you wish to think of unless you have a life.
Once you have that then you can improve and help those in need. Saving lives can be easy but helping can be more difficult. Few have offered any ideas here. The past is not the future in this one.

Yes I can see you smiling smugly to yourself satisfied that you cherish life so much you advocate for a policy currently sending a 5 year old boy back to his rape cage.

southey wrote:

floyd wrote:

I get it now, sit around at smoko at the desal plant and solve world's problems in a black & white sort of way with all the other overpaid/under worked maintenance crew down there & spend working time on the forums, got ya bro

Don't be silly it's an RDO today .... Supplied by the left at a spot ordered by the left , and paid for by the rest of us ...... Sitting there still . More chance it'll flood than run , you know with that global warming and all . That was a genius decision to build that joint at the time and in that spot .... Pure genius

Ruined some perfectly good banks down that way and all southey, total agreement with you on dat one. if it ever does operational it will be the biggest emitter of green house gases in the state .... thanks bracks / brumby

love your work timbo

tim foilat wrote:

Sypo, just so I can get my head around the patois between you and ID, could you paraphrase what have been the pragmatic, sensible, real world ideas/arguments you centrists (?) put forward that everyone with their blinkers on can't accept. And what are the arguments that the far left here have argued that you consider fantasy?

fantasy......well for one....border patrol...costs 1B...and its apparently a waste of money. because clearly its irrelevant to know who does and doesnt come to our country. next we will hear that having a military is a waste of money too. and that germanies, uk, usa, russia, china military is all a waste of money because somehow we will all overnight agree to never fight again.

what about the claims that costs associated with protecting refugees is all bullshit...that one came from you tim? remember my point (d). see you chose to justify your response by conveniently ignoring my actual point about costs associated with protection within the community that i clearly pointed to my block text and rather chose to point to how 650k is spent per person in nauru where the extraordinary expenses result from having so few people actually there.

just off the top of my head....i havent even bothered going back to review comments.

I don't think the costs of 'protecting' a refugee are bullshit, I think I said they were covered.

If these people are settled they are no longer costing $650k per person, that's the money being spent, is that enough to cover the costs of supporting a refugee in the community?

As for the military, you guys keep projecting these weird fantastical ideas about the mystical 'far left' whoever they might be. You listen to a bit of tv, or wireless in Tony's case, and think hey did I think that or did I just hear it on the Tele. Nah those lefties they want an Australia with no military, there's a million refugees coming I tells ya, those lefties think everyone's gonna agree to never fight again, speak English they should, those lefties think it should be open gates blah blah, how do you get away with blabbing on with such puerile nonsense without more people pulling you up?

You all carry on constantly referring to people as left right yadda yadda and then all of a sudden ID, Sypkan and TB all chime in about how irrelevant these terms are and they don't like them. Hehe and the 'far left' live in fantasy land?

spending is under scrutiny sheepdog, the government can't hide a lot of these figures and they are
all we have to work with, I've seen the breakdown of spending on the detention centres, it's available online and seems pretty legit. No doubt there is plenty of unseen money getting around.

yeah i know what you said. so lets examine...650k....that will cover about 10 refugees in the community for one year. hopefully after that they have a job and then the cost disappears. your mistake tim is that you are one for one comparing the costs of running a detention centre with all of about 1000 people actually there versus spending that money in the community. so no, they are simply "not covered at all" and the argument is still relevant. even yourself said the govt is all about economics and cost/benefit analysis but when it suits you think you know the numbers better than they do? now thats fantasy.

accepted i went too far with the military remarks, but border protection. we'll i clearly heard how that money could be better spent. again, fantasy i put it to you.

that "english" argument again. well, you chose to use my sentence grammer mix up to ignore addressing my point. you knew what i meant and your clever remark indicated so. all asylum seekers living in australia do their utmost to have an acceptable standard of english....and one would presume that many asylum seekers would not even choose australia if they could speak no english. but im not talking about "no english", im talking about how the standard of english does or doesnt impact their ability to find work. the war is not going to be over and peace returned in a couple of years, its a fact and it is recognised that one of the biggest barriers for refugees obtaining meaningful employment is spoken and written english skills. we are not a true melting pot of culture in australia...we are way way behind still.

650k per person mate, it costs 1-1.1bil to run the 2 gulags each year, about 1500 persons inside, that works out at 650k per person, a lot huh?

Close the centres and that money is available, are you gonna tell me itll cost more than six hundred and fifty thousand dollars per person to support them in the community? For that much we could teach them better English than you.

https://m.

here, ill make my position clearer. im going to follow your lead. lets assume nauru doesnt exist as you say.. so what will happen? the number of asylum seekers coming to australia will dramatically increase. that was labour for ya (17,000 arrivals in 2012). the cost of support in the community is 35-65k per person per annum (the left says its 35k but ive done calcs to suggest its up to 65k depending up their requirements, particularly education and training and lesser so health). so lets take the previous labour govt boat arrivals (17,000) and times that by 50k to split the difference...that comes to 850 million.

the government can do the math and does...nauru is a deterent. they can take the 1Billion dollar nauru bill or they can take the 850 million dollar bill and then wonder how many people might actually arrive in reality! it could be well more than labour, maybe double, or triple or more? its syria now, its not the same crisis.

[edit] remember my comment in (d) had nothing to do with nauru....it was a comment about supporting refugees in the community. you chose to bring up the 650k figure suggesting that we could save money.

in this fantasy, with all these refugees coming, the 'turn back the boats' policy must have failed completely? and border force has completely failed? so I guess we can dismantle them and throw this money at settling people too. Be able to give em maths lessons on top of the English. Watch it mate they'll be taking YOUR job

turn back the boats....ha...what...all 20 of them in 2 years ! .. now that policy is indeed a complete waste of money. its fails on all accounts.

as for border protection...well, the asylum seekers are all too happy to get off their boat and onto a customs vessel tim. thats about extent that policy deters people, zilch and its not meant to deter. but where will they go once we pick them up tim? nauru? nope...sorry mate - you closed it.

and again, you missed the point with your last little dig...i never once said anything about not increasing humanitarian intake, im not worried about people taking my job...its a shit job anyhow...they can have it. but only that the "left" chose happily to live in fantasy land by choosing to ignore talking about anything other than just compassion. you said it yourself tim....its a numbers game.

i actually said indo d may be too pragmatic, he's got some good answers to difficult questions, I may not agree with them all but I can see he appreciates how quick the world is changing with changing technology, politics and population, something other people seem to overlook with their look to the past examples. this is an ongoing change there's no end in sight.

I don't see far left as an insult,

it's a noble place to be, possibly naive and self righteous, but noble

Jesus save us, how many are coming if the detention centres are closed Nostradamus?

For the sake of a premonition that Australia is going to be overrun by refugees and breakdown, you happily support a policy currently sending children back to their rape cage. You must be somewhat certain that this is going to happen?

sounds like a good place to end the conversation tim. not interested in discussing if you just want to put words in my mouth.

As the majority of these refugees are muslim, why isn't the Islamic church the one offering sanctuary? Says a lot about the different attitudes of Christian/Australian society and the Islamic/New Australian influx.

Sheepdog wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

"Far left fantasy world"...... Well.... There you go.... I another thread I am Abbotts biggest fan..... In this thread I am as close to Trotksy as one can get..... Tony trotsky.... That's me......
If you are going to label me, Indo, then expect the same back, mate... I said my solution (those responsible for displacement to man up and take the human wreckage) was commonsense, but that commonsense and politics don't mix, like chlorine and break fluid I said, the reason being is that the resulting carnage and chaos suits certain political agendas.... So yeah.... I aint gonna happen.... Fuckn derrrrr!!!!
If the people fleeing were white christians, I'd expect a quite different Indo....
How did you fell when Abet and Bernadi said we should take the Syrian christians first in the "12000"..... hould the Syrian christians go to your camps and wait 15 to 20 years, or just the muslims?

ha ha…you really don't know me if you think i care about skin colour or religion, many of my good friends are muslim and have chocolate skin and if i enter a room full of people i don't know and there is someone of obvious different race there, i will generally go and talk to that person..ha ha…I've even questioned myself maybe I'm racist because i find ethnic people more interesting and generally have more time for them..

And you don't know me if you consider me from the far left....
But this is all waffle.... I not you didn't answer the question re' christians..

I have no idea how many are Christian or Muslim or whatever like i said religion, race, skin colour is not important to me.

So no my view would not be any different if they were white Christians.

Okay you may not be far left, but much of your views are, and yes before you ay anything yes in a sense i share some views with the far right like stoping boats, but i don't share any of the racist, xenophobic views.

Like I've said before i don't have a problem with refugees of any race or religion that are accepted in a proper manner, i also don't have too much of an opinion on numbers we should take, I'm sure the government and can work out whats realistic.

tim foilat wrote:

in this fantasy, with all these refugees coming, the 'turn back the boats' policy must have failed completely? and border force has completely failed? so I guess we can dismantle them and throw this money at settling people too. Be able to give em maths lessons on top of the English. Watch it mate they'll be taking YOUR job

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

indo-dreaming wrote:

tim foilat wrote:

in this fantasy, with all these refugees coming, the 'turn back the boats' policy must have failed completely? and border force has completely failed? so I guess we can dismantle them and throw this money at settling people too. Be able to give em maths lessons on top of the English. Watch it mate they'll be taking YOUR job

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

So your saying the, 'turn back the boats' policy does nothing? It's a complete failure as is border force, in your opinion the only deterrent is the offshore processing facilities and it works just like a road block blocking traffic on a street.

Just don't compare it to the past ey, roadblocks fine, but you have this wonderful ability to understand how the world 'REALY' works and how this rapidly changing world is going to look like in the future, just ask Sypkan.

Your support for the offshore detention is ok with you and it is for a lot of Australians, keep conjuring up ridiculous analogies to justify to yourself why it's ok to keep children in detention indefinetly while they are being raped. Your advocacy is duly noted.

tim foilat wrote:

tonybarber wrote:

It seems the banality of life needs to be conveniently slotted into 'left', 'right' or 'centre'. Since when does it matter of what political flavour, or race, or religion, or culture you are that you cherish life itself.
There has been ignorance and avoidance of many here, that lives have been saved. It is not difficult to understand, you did not have anything- rights, freedom whatever you wish to think of unless you have a life.
Once you have that then you can improve and help those in need. Saving lives can be easy but helping can be more difficult. Few have offered any ideas here. The past is not the future in this one.

Yes I can see you smiling smugly to yourself satisfied that you cherish life so much you advocate for a policy currently sending a 5 year old boy back to his rape cage.

Well, Tim, no I am not here smiling smugly. Its sad to see you fail to see or understand how over 1000 people died coming by boats. You are the one that dismisses the right to life for your personal desire.
I hope you are not referring to the report re the 5 year old boy - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-02/boy-allegedly-raped-on-nauru-could...
I certainly hope you do not subscribe to the infamous Sarah Hanson Young statement re the drownings of refugees.
You did mention Jesus - maybe listen to his sayings.

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

"Far left fantasy world"...... Well.... There you go.... I another thread I am Abbotts biggest fan..... In this thread I am as close to Trotksy as one can get..... Tony trotsky.... That's me......
If you are going to label me, Indo, then expect the same back, mate... I said my solution (those responsible for displacement to man up and take the human wreckage) was commonsense, but that commonsense and politics don't mix, like chlorine and break fluid I said, the reason being is that the resulting carnage and chaos suits certain political agendas.... So yeah.... I aint gonna happen.... Fuckn derrrrr!!!!
If the people fleeing were white christians, I'd expect a quite different Indo....
How did you fell when Abet and Bernadi said we should take the Syrian christians first in the "12000"..... hould the Syrian christians go to your camps and wait 15 to 20 years, or just the muslims?

ha ha…you really don't know me if you think i care about skin colour or religion, many of my good friends are muslim and have chocolate skin and if i enter a room full of people i don't know and there is someone of obvious different race there, i will generally go and talk to that person..ha ha…I've even questioned myself maybe I'm racist because i find ethnic people more interesting and generally have more time for them..

And you don't know me if you consider me from the far left....
But this is all waffle.... I not you didn't answer the question re' christians..

I have no idea how many are Christian or Muslim or whatever like i said religion, race, skin colour is not important to me.

So no my view would not be any different if they were white Christians.

Okay you may not be far left, but much of your views are, and yes before you ay anything yes in a sense i share some views with the far right like stoping boats, but i don't share any of the racist, xenophobic views.

Like I've said before i don't have a problem with refugees of any race or religion that are accepted in a proper manner, i also don't have too much of an opinion on numbers we should take, I'm sure the government and can work out whats realistic.

You mention refugees being processed "in the proper manner" .............

Just for the record in your mind what is the "proper manner" and how does that relate to current arrangements that are in place or not in place?

tonybarber wrote:

tim foilat wrote:

tonybarber wrote:

It seems the banality of life needs to be conveniently slotted into 'left', 'right' or 'centre'. Since when does it matter of what political flavour, or race, or religion, or culture you are that you cherish life itself.
There has been ignorance and avoidance of many here, that lives have been saved. It is not difficult to understand, you did not have anything- rights, freedom whatever you wish to think of unless you have a life.
Once you have that then you can improve and help those in need. Saving lives can be easy but helping can be more difficult. Few have offered any ideas here. The past is not the future in this one.

Yes I can see you smiling smugly to yourself satisfied that you cherish life so much you advocate for a policy currently sending a 5 year old boy back to his rape cage.

Well, Tim, no I am not here smiling smugly. Its sad to see you fail to see or understand how over 1000 people died coming by boats. You are the one that dismisses the right to life for your personal desire.
I hope you are not referring to the report re the 5 year old boy - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-02/boy-allegedly-raped-on-nauru-could...
I certainly hope you do not subscribe to the infamous Sarah Hanson Young statement re the drownings of refugees.
You did mention Jesus - maybe listen to his sayings.

I understand over a thousand people died.

You advocate raping children. Sicko

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regards to the other silly metaphor type cut and pasted post, they are pure journalist trash.

I did read one good one line metaphor kind of thing the other day though, i will try to find it.

indo-dreaming wrote:

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

Fuck sake. Really?

As for Tony 'Klaus' Barbie, same old, same old. Shite bloke or pure moron?

Both?

tim foilat wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

tim foilat wrote:

in this fantasy, with all these refugees coming, the 'turn back the boats' policy must have failed completely? and border force has completely failed? so I guess we can dismantle them and throw this money at settling people too. Be able to give em maths lessons on top of the English. Watch it mate they'll be taking YOUR job

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

So your saying the, 'turn back the boats' policy does nothing? It's a complete failure as is border force, in your opinion the only deterrent is the offshore processing facilities and it works just like a road block blocking traffic on a street.

Just don't compare it to the past ey, roadblocks fine, but you have this wonderful ability to understand how the world 'REALY' works and how this rapidly changing world is going to look like in the future, just ask Sypkan.

Your support for the offshore detention is ok with you and it is for a lot of Australians, keep conjuring up ridiculous analogies to justify to yourself why it's ok to keep children in detention indefinetly while they are being raped. Your advocacy is duly noted.

Dude im trying to be diplomatic and not sink to name calling but its like you read one thing and interpret it as something totally different and obviously lack general life experience or understanding of basic principles, reverting to silly one liners.

How can the turn back boat scheme be a complete failure when numbers have dropped from what was 300 a year to 10 a year?.

How can it be a failure if since it started (as far as i know) no more people have been put in detention from boat arrivals, while under past systems hundreds of people ended up in detention centres.

Isn't this what you want?…it's what i want.

I don't claim to understand the world or have the solution on everything, but I'm bringing up issues that yourself and others totally ignore.

talkingturkey wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regards to the other silly metaphor type cut and pasted post, they are pure journalist trash.

I did read one good one line metaphor kind of thing the other day though, i will try to find it.

indo-dreaming wrote:

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

Fuck sake. Really?

Well it was 100 times better than the trash your brought up, at least its simple and true.

talkingturkey wrote:

As for Tony 'Klaus' Barbie, same old, same old. Shite bloke or pure moron?

Both?

Quality stuff TT, Tones you have been called

indo-dreaming wrote:

talkingturkey wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

In regards to the other silly metaphor type cut and pasted post, they are pure journalist trash.

I did read one good one line metaphor kind of thing the other day though, i will try to find it.

indo-dreaming wrote:

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

Fuck sake. Really?

Well it was 100 times better than the trash your brought up, at least its simple and true.

indo-dreaming wrote:
Sheepdog wrote:
[snip]
And you don't know me if you consider me from the far left....
But this is all waffle.... I not you didn't answer the question re' christians..

I have no idea how many are Christian or Muslim or whatever like i said religion, race, skin colour is not important to me.

So no my view would not be any different if they were white Christians.

Okay you may not be far left, but much of your views are, and yes before you ay anything yes in a sense i share some views with the far right like stoping boats, but i don't share any of the racist, xenophobic views.

Like I've said before i don't have a problem with refugees of any race or religion that are accepted in a proper manner, i also don't have too much of an opinion on numbers we should take, I'm sure the government and can work out whats realistic.

You mention refugees being processed "in the proper manner" .............

Just for the record in your mind what is the "proper manner" and how does that relate to current arrangements that are in place or not in place?

EARTH TO INDO ........ answer the question dude ... what is "in the proper manner"?

floyd wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

Sheepdog wrote:

"Far left fantasy world"...... Well.... There you go.... I another thread I am Abbotts biggest fan..... In this thread I am as close to Trotksy as one can get..... Tony trotsky.... That's me......
If you are going to label me, Indo, then expect the same back, mate... I said my solution (those responsible for displacement to man up and take the human wreckage) was commonsense, but that commonsense and politics don't mix, like chlorine and break fluid I said, the reason being is that the resulting carnage and chaos suits certain political agendas.... So yeah.... I aint gonna happen.... Fuckn derrrrr!!!!
If the people fleeing were white christians, I'd expect a quite different Indo....
How did you fell when Abet and Bernadi said we should take the Syrian christians first in the "12000"..... hould the Syrian christians go to your camps and wait 15 to 20 years, or just the muslims?

ha ha…you really don't know me if you think i care about skin colour or religion, many of my good friends are muslim and have chocolate skin and if i enter a room full of people i don't know and there is someone of obvious different race there, i will generally go and talk to that person..ha ha…I've even questioned myself maybe I'm racist because i find ethnic people more interesting and generally have more time for them..

And you don't know me if you consider me from the far left....
But this is all waffle.... I not you didn't answer the question re' christians..

I have no idea how many are Christian or Muslim or whatever like i said religion, race, skin colour is not important to me.

So no my view would not be any different if they were white Christians.

Okay you may not be far left, but much of your views are, and yes before you ay anything yes in a sense i share some views with the far right like stoping boats, but i don't share any of the racist, xenophobic views.

Like I've said before i don't have a problem with refugees of any race or religion that are accepted in a proper manner, i also don't have too much of an opinion on numbers we should take, I'm sure the government and can work out whats realistic.

You mention refugees being processed "in the proper manner" .............

Just for the record in your mind what is the "proper manner" and how does that relate to current arrangements that are in place or not in place?

A proper manner is in any way the government decides they will accept refugees, and obviously they do not see getting here by boat one of those ways because of all the problems it causes or has the potential to cause. (see my first post)

The problem is the government is signed to the refugee convention and in the UN's view we should be accepting refuges no matter how they arrive and no matter in what numbers.

Hence why being signed to the refuge convention is a problem and kind of silly.

In a sense by being signed to the refugee convention we have put the welcome mat out, but at the same time locked the door (be it the back door).

Long term it going to be interesting to see if we ever have the balls to part from it, and a I've said before i think we should, but at the same time double our refugee intake numbers to make a statement and a clear message of why we are parting from it.

If we did we would also have more right to complain about Indonesia lack of action on the matter, currently Indonesia is doing nothing wrong and you would assume technically that they legally need to allow refugees a safe passage to get to Australia because we are signed to the refugee convention, if we were not, things would be much different.

indo-dreaming wrote:

tim foilat wrote:

indo-dreaming wrote:

tim foilat wrote:

in this fantasy, with all these refugees coming, the 'turn back the boats' policy must have failed completely? and border force has completely failed? so I guess we can dismantle them and throw this money at settling people too. Be able to give em maths lessons on top of the English. Watch it mate they'll be taking YOUR job

You know we had road works in my busy street last week, the council workers put up barriers while they worked and all the cars disappeared, the road works are now finished and they have now taken the barriers away…and guess what Tim a real funny thing happened, the street is now busy again with cars????

So your saying the, 'turn back the boats' policy does nothing? It's a complete failure as is border force, in your opinion the only deterrent is the offshore processing facilities and it works just like a road block blocking traffic on a street.

Just don't compare it to the past ey, roadblocks fine, but you have this wonderful ability to understand how the world 'REALY' works and how this rapidly changing world is going to look like in the future, just ask Sypkan.

Your support for the offshore detention is ok with you and it is for a lot of Australians, keep conjuring up ridiculous analogies to justify to yourself why it's ok to keep children in detention indefinetly while they are being raped. Your advocacy is duly noted.

Dude im trying to be diplomatic and not sink to name calling but its like you read one thing and interpret it as something totally different and obviously lack general life experience or understanding of basic principles, reverting to silly one liners.

How can the turn back boat scheme be a complete failure when numbers have dropped from what was 300 a year to 10 a year?.

How can it be a failure if since it started (as far as i know) no more people have been put in detention from boat arrivals, while under past systems hundreds of people ended up in detention centres.

Isn't this what you want?…it's what i want.

I don't claim to understand the world or have the solution on everything, but I'm bringing up issues that yourself and others totally ignore.

Pointing out what you are advocating is not name calling, it's a bitter pill to swallow but it's part of what you are advocating for, same as TB.

Total misread on the turn back policy, you need to retread those few posts between happy and I, the notion that if the naru and manus are closed boats will arrive on mass was put forward by happy.

My point was IF this happens ie mass influx of boats then the turn back policy and border force must be completely ineffective.

You suggest it is in fact effective so if the offshore centres are closed the boats will be held at bay, no mass influx of refugees, take it up with HappyasS.

INDO

To summarise then you believe:

Processing refugees in the proper manner = any way the government decides.

It is a problem that Australia is a signatory to the UN charter on refugees because its a welcome mat.

You would like Australia to withdraw from the UN Charter on refugees but double the number of refugees coming to Australia.

If we withdrew from the UN charter and doubled the intake we would have more right (whatever that means) to complain to Indonesia on lack of action of the matter (whatever that means)

So you accept then there is no queue and no refugee camp in the region that can orderly process refugees .... as I said several days ago, desperate people do desperate things ---> boats

2.51 pm edit/addition:

The thought crossed my mind its a good thing you weren't a native of Germany in the late 1930s/1940s coz we know what happens when citizens blindly follow their (extreme) governments .... with an attitude like the one you currently have "processed in the proper manner" would have had an entirely different meaning ....... see boyo, its never black or white

TimF…ok, you state 'I understand over a thousand people died.' I would hope that you don't subscribe to Sarah Hanson Young's statement or for that matter SDs 'death shifting'.
The fundamental first step of any help is to save the life. I trust you can understand that is imperative. Then the process or procedure of helping that life comes secondary - food, shelter, etc
You also, for some reason, stated - 'You advocate raping children. Sicko'
again your words but it seems your interpretation. Again, maybe review the ABC article or that from SMH.
How that advocates 'rape' - I don't see.
You may also for a better understanding of refugee arrivals, view how many come via air.