Illegal boat people
Yeah I agree with you both about this issue, it is a hard one.
@ID, I worked with an Iraqi guy in Melbourne years ago painting houses, he was the supervisor. He sold up his shoe shop business, which apparently was a good lucrative business over there, he came with his family to Melbourne and started painting. He was exceptionally good at this trade, but an absolute c_nt, so different from everyone else, never fitted in with the other blokes and had a big chip on his shoulders, obviously from his previous life? Money does talk that is how he moved here.
@ddd, This issue as we all know! Will be in politics for many years to come, unless they come up with a great solution?
Quote," but I think most Australians are super caring and would go out of their way to help people in distress".
Mmmmm I'm not really sure on that one.
I've travelled a lot and also living in Australia, I do find the majority of Australians are very racist, even between themselves ha ha.
West Oz versus NSW, VICS versus QLD etc, the list goes on.
I honestly think a lot of the older generation, older than ourselves would be against the refugees coming here to Australia, because this is what the ANZACS fought for!
Other wise we would be under Japanese or German rule now??
You're probably not gonna like this but, there are too many people on this planet, people are dying, with wars etc and so be it.
We are so lucky to live here in an awesome country free from all that shit and we should all count ourselves so lucky.
Refugees go and stay in your own country , I reckon.
Im sure not everyone is going to agree with me, but i think Rudd is on the right track with his ideas.
@ ID , Haven't watched the latest news tonight but does Rudd have a solution, what is it.
Are they his ideas Indo? Political window dressing in order to try and shore up support prior to getting his arse handed to him.
Rightly or wrongly, the coalitions policies worked under the leadership of Howard. Refugee numbers were at a trickle compared to the flood that we see now under the Labor goverment.
Bit too late to shut the gate now that the horse has already bolted.
It's good to see that this thread has remained civil, especially concerning a topic like this one.
I'd agree with you ID, it is on the right track. It is recognizing, in at least a small way, that asylum seekers are not just an issue for Australia, but many other countries too. If we put an impenetrable fence around Australia the problem still exists, people will still be persecuted and will flee from it, the only difference will be that Australia pretends it doesn't happen and the whole world thinks we are a bastard. In a globalized world, that is not going to do us any favors.
@wellymon. It's true, we are an incredibly lucky country. But rather than have us become insular and pretend that Australians are somehow worth more than others (not your words, but certainly the opinions of many others), I'd like to see us live up to our own ideas of ourselves; 'fair go' and 'mateship' and all that jazz. The thought that many Australians would rather men, women and children die as they try to flee danger than to have our rich and prosperous make efforts to provide safety and promote peace make me sad, frustrated and resentful.
There is a middle ground in the debate which I hope Rudd finds. It is not a case of let the entirety of Sri Lanka and the Middle East move to Australia or refuse entry to anyone who isn't white and doesn't speak English. There is a space between them where Australia can try to improve the lives of other human beings, whose lives are worth just as much as any others, while still maintaining borders and our quality of life and ensuring some levels of 'Australian-ness' for the future.
Since this topic has resurfaced can I remind everyone of 2 things.
Firstly, this topic started along time ago by some-one not known for his moderate views and who, secondly, would have deliberately used the term illegal boat people to incite a negative attitude towards "people" fleeing war or persecution.
They are people just like you and I who are seeking a better life just like what we do everyday.
While it may suit slippery politicians and others to use such terms it is highly dishonest and feeds into the racism that is all of us.
There was a time in this country when immigration and refugees enjoyed bipartisan support, that was called political leadership, which is not to be confused with the tripe we have now.
Nope, I take that back. I thought that the Rudd news was about the Iran visa to Indonesia. Shutting the door on asylum seekers is a disgrace. It is an arrogant heartless move that will result in zero good - how on Earth can anyone think that PNG is in the place to handle this? Australia is surely just using money, obtained through pure luck that our dirt is full of useful thing, to offset any responsibility to care for human beings.
Why can't an equal effort be invested in processing claims before people made the choice to arrive by boat?
@ zen
Regarding your comments about Howard, yes they worked no denying that but lets also acknowledge Howard's major legacy as the first PM to use the plight of refugees for political purposes.
"We will decide the people who come to this country and the manner in which they do" I still remember him saying that at his campaign launch in regard to refugees and as I said earlier there was a time when politicians "lead" the community on this one.
Before anyone just chiming in now goes off half-cocked with some regurgitated rhetoric, they should read through this earlier post from Craig -
Nick, have a skim over these these common myths and then the actual facts that counter nearly every one of your comments above..
1. Boat people are illegal.
Asylum seekers who enter Australia by sea (or plane) without a valid visa are not illegal. They do not break any Australian law by coming here without papers and asking for protection.
The right to enter without prior authorisation is protected by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) which Australia helped to draft.
2. Boat people are queue jumpers.
There is no queue for asylum seekers to join.
Only 2% of the world’s refugees are in a queue. If all the millions of refugees worldwide were to join a queue, the wait for resettlement would be 135 years.
Australia is the only country where the term ‘queue-jumper’ is used.
Interestingly, the address of the Australian Embassy in Kabul is kept secret, for security reasons. Not much chance of queuing there! And it has no ‘visa function’ wither, so if you find it, you cannot apply for a visa. Some queue!
3. Boat arrivals are not genuine asylum seekers.
For obvious reasons, those who risk their lives in attempting the perilous journey by boat are more likely to be genuinely in need of protection.
While only around 20-40% of plane arrivals are found to be genuine refugees, the proportion for boat arrivals is 85-90%.
4. Boat arrivals present a security risk.
No boat arrival who could have been a potential threat to national security has ever gained entry into Australia.
A potential terrorist is more likely to arrive by plane because boat arrivals are subject to the most scrutinised security checks. The very act of arriving without documentation alerts authorities to undertake rigorous screening.
It is much easier and safer for a terrorist to arrive undetected in Australia by plane, either with a valid visa or false documentation.
5. Asylum seekers who can afford to come by boat are economic migrants.
A person who is rich and who is not persecuted is most unlikely to risk their life by trying to get to Australia on a leaky boat.
You can be wealthy and still be tortured. In some countries authorities are more likely to target the well-educated and wealthy as they are the greatest threat to an authoritarian regime. Remember the Jews who fled Germany in the 1930s: quite a few were rich, but they were still genuine refugees.
6. Australia is losing control of its borders.
No country in the world has greater control over its borders than Australia. Australia is an island continent with vast surrounding seas. This natural barrier makes irregular arrival very difficult.
Australia has around 4 million authorized arrivals each year: people coming for holidays, or business or study. The largest number of unauthorized arrivals in any one year was 7,100. In 2010, there were 6,502 unauthorized boat arrivals to Australia. So far in 2011, there have been around 2500. These are small numbers. The average over the past 30 years is 1000 per year.
7. Mandatory detention is necessary for border security.
Australia is one of few nations in the world which locks up asylum seekers who arrive without visas. Not only is the detention mandatory, it is indefinite as well. The detention lasts as long as the process takes - 6 months, a year, 2 years, 4 years – it varies. At present, it is averaging around 2-3 years.
Australian practice has shown that asylum seekers allowed to live in the community while their asylum claims are processed are highly unlikely to abscond. This is because they have a vested interest in cooperating in order to gain full protection rights.
In 2005, Australia introduced a community-based detention system which allowed some asylum seekers to live unsupervised in the community, supported by the Red Cross. Of the 244 people placed in this program between July 2005 and May 2009, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship reports that only two people had absconded.
8. We no longer have children in detention.
Whilst there are no children in high security detention centres today, as at the end of July 2011, there were still however 872 children in immigration detention of some kind.
446 were detained in the community under residence determinations.
329 were in alternative places of detention. People in this form of detention are still locked in secure facilities, kept under guard and have no freedom of movement. Many 5-15 year olds go to school, but not all of them, and for under 5s they do not go to pre-school and have very little recreation.
45 were in immigration residential housing and 52 were in immigration transit accommodation.
9. Australia has one of the most generous refugee intakes in the world.
Australia is the world's 14th largest economy, yet in 2010, we accepted 0.03% of the world’s refugees. From over 40 million refugees globally, we took just 13,750.
In 2009, twenty industrialised countries accepted more asylum seekers per capita than Australia.
The overwhelming majority of the world’s refugees are situated in the developing world in countries neighbouring their own. Pakistan, Syria and Iran each host more than a million refugees and asylum seekers.
10. Asylum seekers coming to Australia could stop in another country along the way.
Asylum seekers who arrive from Africa, the Middle East and South Asia often travel through intermediary countries before arriving in Australia. However, there is nothing unjust or deceptive about this.
These countries are typically not signatories to the Refugee Convention and do not offer protection for refugees.
Indonesia has not signed the Refuges Convention. Asylum seekers in Indonesia are at risk of being jailed if they are found by the authorities. Even if they are assessed as refugees by UNHCR, they are not allowed to work or send their children to school, and they face a wait of 10 to 40 years before a western country offers to resettle them.
Faced with life in the shadows for decades, some of them are brave enough to get on a leaky boat in an attempt to reach safety in Australia. If you were in their shoes, what would you do?
11. Stopping the boats will save lives.
For people who are desperate, people smugglers are their only escape route. Cutting off a person’s last line of escape is no great favour.
And if you are killed by the Taliban, you are just as dead as if you drown.
Since there is no ‘queue’, refugees deterred from a boat trip are also effectively prevented from ever gaining resettlement in Australia. This is the real reason behind the ‘stop the boats’ mantra.
It’s not about saving the lives of asylum seekers. It’s about keeping them out of Australia.
12. Refugees do not contribute to society
By definition, refugees are survivors. They have survived because they have the courage and initiative to do so. These are exactly the qualities we value.
Refugees, who have fought for survival and overcome great traumas, have risked everything to make it to safety. They express immense gratitude and dedication to their new country.
The challenge for Australia is to help newly arrived refugees to rebuild their lives. If we do this, we will reap the benefit of the qualities and experiences they bring to Australia.
There are many refugees in this country who have gone on to do great things and have served us well in the fields of medicine, science, the arts, politics and much more.
Sources:
Refugee Council of Australia - Myths about refugees and asylum seekers
Asylum Seeker Resource Centre - Myths, facts and solutions
Uniting Justice Australia – Asylum seekers and refugees: myths and facts
Chilout (Children out of detention)
Department of Immigration and Citizenship
http://www.julianburnside.com.au/myths2.htm
By: "craig"
Of course rattle, acknowledged but the cynic in me also thinks that our current PM may be doing so for political purposes as well.
Sure he may have been the first, but he certainly won't be the last.
Hey Zen, Too true, my comment on tripe refers equally to Abbott and Rudd.
How does this work? Malcolm Fraser supporting the Greens position on refugees ... just goes to show how far to the right we have travelled on this topic.
Lets remind ourselves how we were once a generous and welcoming country i.e. Australia's response when South Vietnam fell (good on you Malcolm Fraser, a PM that showed real leadership).
John Howard's dog whistle ........
http://museumvictoria.com.au/immigrationmuseum/discoverycentre/identity/...
Howard, Ruddoch & Reith ........... throwing the truth overboard
Clarke & Dawe on immigration
&list=PL6090751D59985F86 Lots of great information and discussion in this thread.
There is an argument put forth, not just here but in other arenas, stating that allowing boat people entry is unfair to others waiting outside Australia, that in fact money becomes a key determinant for entry. I absolutely agree that money should not be a deciding factor, however I don’t believe that this is the way to view the situation. Just because people arrive by boat shouldn’t mean our humanitarian duties to others still outside Australia fall to the side. The one way to ensure these people aren’t “jumping the queue†(a phrase that grinds) is to keep them out of the refugee quota (not sure what the actual current case is here). Accept the people who come by boat, but have this in addition to our defined intake. Others are not then disadvantaged by their entry. I know this is a simplistic as there is an argument to say that if we hadn’t accepted 5k, 10k boat arrivals we would have taken that much more from other countries, but I don’t believe this would actually occur. I’m yet to hear “we stopped 2k from arriving by boat, let’s open up the gates for 2k more in the campsâ€. Or rather than trying to drag down the scale (make it as difficult for boat arrivals as those in camps), why don’t we lift the other end of the scale. Invest more in source country processing to reduce the wait times, so that path becomes as “easy†(I just dry retched typing that) as that of the boats.
There are so many more opinions that I’d love to voice, but others above have put it more succinctly than I could express myself. I throw out the argument above knowing full well that there is a level of naivety and lack of depth to it, but I bring it up as it neatly illustrates a point over which I hold strong conviction: too often this issue is approached with the wrong viewing lens - We need to stop the boats because they are violating our borders, it is bad for Australia, it is bad for other refugees, they’re possibly not real refugees; all gloriously negative starting points. If we only approached it from the view that these are people that stand in their time of need and we should help as many as we possibly can in the quickest way achievable. Now that’s something that would make me sit up with pride. But the devastating truth of it is many people don’t want to see it that way, and that’s why these insane politics have secured such a strong foothold.
Reading through this forum has educated me a bit more on the topic, so thanks for the contributions, even those I may not necessarily agree with.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/youve-been-m...
If the boat people have enough money to pay smugglers ..they have enough patience to wait their turn..if they are authentic..end of story.
wcgland - can you explain the logic in that? I've never equated wealth with patience, in fact I have often seen the opposite in Australia. Just because someone can afford to pay smugglers (often only after selling their homes and businesses) does not mean they are in any less danger than anyone else.
Arguing with people over the internet is something I try not to do too much of, but I just can't stand the approach you have taken to an issue that has to do with someone's life - just try to picture that Australians weren't born, by sheer luck, into a country likes out - imagine that you and your family were in ever present danger. What would you do? Wait in a 'queue' that does not exist? Or take matters into your own hands?
www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_...
Facts about asylum seekers from our own government.
If the boat people have enough money to pay smugglers ..they have enough patience to wait their turn..if they are authentic..end of story.
By: "wcgland"
I dont think thats true at all.
But if your a true refugee, the most important thing is safety for your life, and processing centres provide FREE safety, food, shelter all at a developed country standard and give you are very good chance of a better future, if your a true refugee, you would really appreciate all this and not do anything to lessen your chances.
And if your not a true refugee, you would most likely be impatient and most likely one of these people www.au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/18068430/police-attend-full-...
who IMO should automatically be rejected from entry to Australia so a true peace loving refugee can take there place.
See above ..........
3. Boat arrivals are not genuine asylum seekers.
For obvious reasons, those who risk their lives in attempting the perilous journey by boat are more likely to be genuinely in need of protection.
While only around 20-40% of plane arrivals are found to be genuine refugees, the proportion for boat arrivals is 85-90%.
F**k. I just wrote a really well thought-out reply and lost it.
wcgland - you should have a read of the info in the link from dandandan....
A refugee is classified as someone who is escaping persecution....not poverty. It doesn't matter if they have money or not. I they stay where they are, they will be either killed, tortured or unjustly imprisoned in conditions you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.
Given this situation, I'd like to see the imaginary queue that these people, who are running for their lives, could join? I'm sure the government who wants them dead or in prison, will have a well administered due-process for them to find asylum... o_O
Also, given that 85-90% of people arriving via boat are genuine asylum seekers, while less than 45% of the larger number arriving via air fit the same bill, we are doing sweet f-all to stop those who do not genuinely need help, but rather cutting off a lifeline for the desperate.
Not sure if I like the new move by Labor - On one hand it removes ammo from the Oppositions campaign, hopefully denying them a chance to get even more hard-line on asylum seekers...
On the other hand, it won't f**cking work.
Someone on this thread mentioned something I have been saying for years - why not use the influx of refugees to help build struggling rural areas? Put them into the super cheap housing available in those areas, give them enough money to get by till there is work for them, and kill two birds with one stone - boost struggling economy in the area, and help people in need. Plus, all the money stays in Australia, rather than ending up in PNG. We are already pouring money into this, and while I don't know figures, I highly doubt it would be a more expensive option...and even if it is, the $ stay in the Aussie economy.
Seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on the idea....and K-Rudds :P
Oh, and I agree with the thoughts of Indo-Dreaming....
Those who cause trouble in the offshore processing centres get a fast track back home.
That is assuming they are being treated well though....if they are getting abused, or treated like anything less than someone in need, then we need a review of what the hell is happening in there.
Accept the people who come by boat, but have this in addition to our defined intake. Others are not then disadvantaged by their entry. I know this is a simplistic as there is an argument to say that if we hadn’t accepted 5k, 10k boat arrivals we would have taken that much more from other countries, but I don’t believe this would actually occur. I’m yet to hear “we stopped 2k from arriving by boat, let’s open up the gates for 2k more in the campsâ€. Or rather than trying to drag down the scale (make it as difficult for boat arrivals as those in camps), why don’t we lift the other end of the scale. Invest more in source country processing to reduce the wait times, so that path becomes as “easy†(I just dry retched typing that) as that of the boats.
By: "shannon"
No offence, but IMO its totally unrealistic ?
If we took this approach and took all refugees that come by boat or plane without limiting numbers, who knows how many refugees would turn up?
According to www.rescue.org there is currently 42 million refugees in the world, most from Africa, Middle east and Asia, all of which we are not really that far from when talking on a world scale, and all of which makes Indonesia basically a bridge to Australia.
Its not scare mongering to suggest if we did this we could see millions reach our shores.
What i find confusing with this kind of view (let every one in attitude) people with this view i find are generally also very green thinking (green party), which is kinda weird because both views are in conflict with each other, more people put all kind of environmental pressures on Australia, for example even with our current population we are having big problems with providing enough water for farming and drinking water etc
I remember even reading somewhere i think the greens are for changing the law so people smuggling is not a crime if this happens I seriously will be considering setting my Indo family a people smuggling business, i read yesterday these guys make 40K for each boat trip, thats killer money in Australia but in Indo its just crazy crazy money.
F**k. I just wrote a really well thought-out reply and lost it.
By: "pster"
Know the feeling just happened to me too.
Yeah where do these lost posts go? and why?
I to just wrote a brilliant 3 page post and lost it, but I know where they go, ASIO takes them. I have written many thought provoking posts, only to be snatched at the last second by ASIO, they don't like the truth to be discussed on the internet.
Yeah, they do it to me too. Harold Holt is alive and well, and living in./a SVFDBAQwq1`dcfvasbgwres4e3Q2 `13R3GHBNW RHGBFXZCVVXZ
How are you guys losing posts? We haven't seen anything like this from our end - please let me know what's happening and I'll try to investigate.
Well, generally, it goes like this. I have one drink, then another and then, I remember nothing until I wake up at the Port Melbourne lock-up....
Ben I have lost a few when deleting them to re-edit. The comment button does not work when you try to resubmit.. I assumed this was an iPad issue but it could be a wider problem. I now copy the post, shut the page and log in again.
Me too, just as BB says it. I'm using Windows and Internet Explorer.
Sometimes it saves me because it gives me time to think about what I've written before opening my big gob;)
Hey indo-dreaming
No problem, no offence taken.
I’m happy to admit that there is a level of simplicity in my post, in fact I did just that in my following paragraph. There are people out there more capable than myself of coming up with a solution. As mentioned, I mainly raised it to highlight my belief we’re looking at this from the wrong angle. Viewing them as queue jumpers is looking at it from the wrong angle.
Just to clarify on my original post, I don’t believe that whoever arrives should just be accepted, as my statement may suggest. I still believe they would need to be assessed (but in a more timely manner), that to me is completely reasonable. I find it hard though to support any argument suggesting that we should turn away refugees, no matter how they arrive.
With all respect, to say we could see millions reach our shores (if we abandon our current deterrent methodology) is scaremongering in my book. When your life is at risk and there is no hope for the future, the prospect of being detained in Australia probably doesn’t rank highly on your list of fears. To be honest I don’t think there’s much of what we do that is a deterrent to boat people, I think it’s mostly done for political reasons. The main reason we don’t see more arrive is simply the difficulty of the journey. You say that on a world scale Africa is not far from Australia, and that is certainly the case for people with means; but for someone with no resource in a camp in Africa, Australia may as well be the moon.
There is mention as well of the rioters (past and present) in detention centers. I don’t necessarily condone their behavior, but I can at least understand it. I think it’s fair to say that the majority of these people have been through an incredibly hard time trying to better their lives. They arrive in Australia and are placed in detention for an indeterminate amount of time and told that they should be happy they’re here at all. To me that’s just not right. These people have the right to be treated with human decency and respect; locking them up for on average a year (sometimes much longer) does not satisfy that criteria. I imagine that I would be at my limits if I were in their position too.
There ya go, Shaun, Blindboy and now Whaaaat all people who have confessed to having a drinking problem, yes blindboy it is a wider problem.The more I drink the wider I get.
Hey indo-dreaming
No problem, no offence taken.
By: "shannon"
Same, it only natural that we all cant agree on everything, i guess no one is really right, the whole issue is a hard one with no easy solution.
By the sound of things there are so many people on here who want to let all the refugee's come to Australia when they want and how they want . Thats very nice of you and i hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside but could you imagine housing and paying for them to live here ? Craig quoted that 8.5 out of 10 refugees dont work and need to be housed ,fed ,all bills paid for and medical and when i say medical i mean they are bringing in people with HIV aids , T.B and all of the hep A-Z just to mention a few .Our Australian university girls raped . Just last night they burnt down the refugee camp in Narou and caused 60 million worth of damage . It is nice of you to say they are welcome but for fuck sake why dont you let them share your house witch is what Julia proposed . So dont make out like you are being all political correct unless you have your front door open and have those lovely little criminals sleeping in till lunch time in your spare room . Do some research of your own and see how much they cost the Australian tax payer .
@lukesripping - Find a middle ground for God's sake - I'd never advocate to let in anyone and everyone, and I doubt a single person here would. Rather I'd like to see people assessed in a timely manner, and if found to be a genuine refugee settled in to a community like any other immigrant to Australia. When people are not found to be genuine refugees, or are deemed unsavory characters, they are not granted a visa. This happens to 50% of asylum seekers who come by plane. It will, and should, continue to happen in the future.
8.5/10 Refugees don't work,likely because government regulations prevent them from doing so. You are not able to work on a temporary protection visa.
'Our university girls raped'. This is nothing but heartless scare mongering - it is unfair to the majority of asylum seekers and immigrants who are not rapists and no doubt insulting to many rape victims who were raped by white, Christan Australian men. Of the 495 rape cases in Victorian courts in 2009 345 were committed by Australians. Australians have been raping Australians for decades and to try to link such a horrendous crime to immigration is nothing short of disgusting.
I find the unfounded hysteria around asylum seekers to be one of the most shameful aspects of modern Australian society. I've been verbally and physically assaulted on numerous occasions by Australians, but does that mean that all Australians are horrible, violent arrogant thugs? No. It doesn't, and it shouldn't be the same for people from other countries.
In all my years of traveling, I've been welcomed into the homes of strangers to share food and drink and conversation hundreds of times. Never has such a trusting, honest gesture come my way from a stranger in Australia. And for all the garble about Australian culture and a fair go, I've very rarely experienced any such warmth and generosity outside of remote areas. Statements like the above make me wonder if it exists at all anymore. What has Australia become if we can't provide a 'fair go' to those that need it most and instead turn them into political pawns, asylum seekers and Aboriginal Australians alike.
Now this one is really interesting, im tempted to book my ticket and become PI Indo-dreaming. (kinda half serious)
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/18083573/govts-200-000-bou...
Fuck I didn't realise but Im $200,000.00 richer
Yeah ha
Stoked
Ive found him.
mmmmmmm.
Earrly signals from Indonesian people smugglers are that Rudd's new asylum seeker proposal is already having an impact on those who are trying to decide whether to board the next boat to Australia. You now have to wonder if the government's Malaysia Solution might just have worked had the Coalition and the Greens not worked together to block the policy.
If Rudd's new policy does work should Tony Abbott and Christine Milne take some responsibility for all the deaths and drama at sea of the last few years in their pursuit of a political objective, and in the case of the Green's misplaced ideology?
http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/png-what-will-be-the...
Yeah it does seem to be working
"The decision of Kevin Rudd will stop the boats," said Noor, who with a group of friends, also recent arrivals, said they would no longer be going"
"By Saturday morning, groups of Afghan men, who are highly visible on the streets, were saying they would never accept settlement in Papua New Guinea and began instructing intermediaries working for the smugglers that they would not be going"
People fleeing in fear of there life or fleeing for economic reasons?
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/rudd8217s-decision-will-stop-the-bo...
fuck them, honestly!
I pay $60,000 of tax each year .
They go and burn my tax money up by being peanuts?
I hope Rudd makes these people realise.
reports of rape and torture on manus island, so you refugee lovers are these the kind of fuckers you want to rescue- give citizenship to and let mix with your children or grandchildren.
udo - Nope. Not at all. But when it comes to rape and torture, there is always a victim. Do I want to rescue those people? You bet I do.
It helps if you stop seeing things in black and white. Irrational people on both sides of the arguments try to speak in absolute - 'let in everyone' or 'let in no one!'. This is pointless debate, though incredibly typical of politics the world over.
What I am saying is process people efficiently so they can move on with their lives. If it is found that they are not genuine refugees or that they should not, for other reasons, be allowed to settle in Australia, then do not allow them to settle here.
If they are found to be genuine refugees, or victims of rape and torture (read: not rapists or torturers) then give them a 'fair go' and show them some 'mateship' and use our privileged position to help someone who is suffering. We should punish victims for the crimes of their oppressors.
Exactly DDD, it's a tough situation that calls for rigorous thinking. Emotion-fuelled shortcuts, or absolutes as you call them, won't solve anything. I believe we should process people promptly and let them get on with their lives. Their numbers are so minute, and will remain so because of the sea voyage required, that they have little bearing on our lives. Certainly not enough to match the Olympic-size debate and media circus currently surrounding the issue.
The riots and the violence? Keep in mind desperate people do desperate things, but if they're guilty of crimes beyond manifest expressions of frustration then they need to be punished. Start by pulling their asylum claims.
We can't rush the process though or the "bad apples" may slip through the cracks and then there will be an uproar over the process. Some come over with no papers or fraudulent papers and have to be properly identified. This takes time.
How would you feel if something happened to your family member and you found out it was a known person that slipped through those cracks because governments decided to speed up the proceedure. Yeah I know this could happen from someone born and bred here, but we need to look at all sides and put ourselves in everyones position (including the agencies identifying those coming in).
It is a complex issue that alot of people are quite passionate about on all sides.
Fitzroy21 - This is true, we have to be very vigilant about who we let in to the country. And to be honest I think we are. We deny applications for all manner of visas everyday.When people say the process should be made more efficient, they do not mean taking one or two days to decide. Rather, instead of taking up to 18 months, it could be done in 3 months. At least this is my view. Canada does it on average in eight days, which I think may be too fast. I think 90 days is an acceptable amount of time to gauge one's character in all but the most difficult of cases.
In my view, a good apple can become a bad apple if you leave in the tropical sun for a year and a half.
As a side note, people often gawk at the amount of money that is spent on the asylum seeker issue. One aspect that people brush over is that this has created a pretty significant industry which employs many Australians, and as each dollar spent by government has a larger multiplying effect, it must contribute a pretty penny to the Australian economy.
If the boats stop coming, what happens to this billion dollar industry (reportedly 1.5 billion last year)?
"In my view, a good apple can become a bad apple if you leave in the tropical sun for a year and a half."
A statement worth wrapping in quote marks.
Sounds good but don't know if its true.
If i had fled from a war torn country and had been provided with a place of safety, provided with a roof over my head and feed, health needs taken care of plus more, all at a developed country standard plus a chance of a life in a better country (all something most of worlds population don't have but wish they did)
Dont think it would change me from being a good person (good apple) to a person who destroys and uses violence to get things moving faster.(bad apple), more likely they were bad apples to start with.
So Abbott, if elected, is gonna put a three-star commender in charge of Operation Sovereign Border to protect us from ''The crisis on our borders [that] has become a national emergency."
He's been fronting the media grim-faced like Churchill before the Blitz. This shit is getting ludicrous.
The one redeeming feature of Rudd is that he is making Abbott look like a startled bunny in a spotlight.
Anyone else notice how tired Abbott looks lately? He has been running an election marathon for 3 years now and maybe the ole trooper is gunna stumble at the line.
Got any Gatorade, Nick3?
Yep in his speedos. Floyd
That would hurt.
Who is sick and tired of these illegal boat people having a lend of us?