Illegal boat people

Yeah, the Broken Bay RMYC and all their creative accounting to avoid paying tax.

A pox on them all.

Do u mean the first fleet illegal boat people?

And a pox on their stupid shoes, too.

Don't even look like boats...

Having a lend of us are they...?

Well, I recently spoke to my neighbour Mushtaq, he arrived here by boat ten years ago after a hell of a journey. "One month at sea without food, water or hope," he told me grimly. Mushtaq went quiet when telling me the thoughts that went through his head during those desperate days. Barely whispering he confided that suicide crossed his mind, but, Mushtaq said, "that would of been going overboard."

I'm sick and tired of ignorant pricks wasting my oxygen.

A plane full off poms arrive in oz and skip out on their visa and stay illegally or a boat load of poor bastards that only want to live in a country where they don't get shot at. Guess which ones get fucked over?

Few more boats and a few less nick3's and this country might take a turn for better.

Nick, have a skim over these these common myths and then the actual facts that counter nearly every one of your comments above..

1. Boat people are illegal.

Asylum seekers who enter Australia by sea (or plane) without a valid visa are not illegal. They do not break any Australian law by coming here without papers and asking for protection.

The right to enter without prior authorisation is protected by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) which Australia helped to draft.

2. Boat people are queue jumpers.

There is no queue for asylum seekers to join.

Only 2% of the world’s refugees are in a queue. If all the millions of refugees worldwide were to join a queue, the wait for resettlement would be 135 years.

Australia is the only country where the term ‘queue-jumper’ is used.

Interestingly, the address of the Australian Embassy in Kabul is kept secret, for security reasons. Not much chance of queuing there! And it has no ‘visa function’ wither, so if you find it, you cannot apply for a visa. Some queue!

3. Boat arrivals are not genuine asylum seekers.

For obvious reasons, those who risk their lives in attempting the perilous journey by boat are more likely to be genuinely in need of protection.

While only around 20-40% of plane arrivals are found to be genuine refugees, the proportion for boat arrivals is 85-90%.

4. Boat arrivals present a security risk.

No boat arrival who could have been a potential threat to national security has ever gained entry into Australia.

A potential terrorist is more likely to arrive by plane because boat arrivals are subject to the most scrutinised security checks. The very act of arriving without documentation alerts authorities to undertake rigorous screening.

It is much easier and safer for a terrorist to arrive undetected in Australia by plane, either with a valid visa or false documentation.

5. Asylum seekers who can afford to come by boat are economic migrants.

A person who is rich and who is not persecuted is most unlikely to risk their life by trying to get to Australia on a leaky boat.

You can be wealthy and still be tortured. In some countries authorities are more likely to target the well-educated and wealthy as they are the greatest threat to an authoritarian regime. Remember the Jews who fled Germany in the 1930s: quite a few were rich, but they were still genuine refugees.

6. Australia is losing control of its borders.

No country in the world has greater control over its borders than Australia. Australia is an island continent with vast surrounding seas. This natural barrier makes irregular arrival very difficult.

Australia has around 4 million authorized arrivals each year: people coming for holidays, or business or study. The largest number of unauthorized arrivals in any one year was 7,100. In 2010, there were 6,502 unauthorized boat arrivals to Australia. So far in 2011, there have been around 2500. These are small numbers. The average over the past 30 years is 1000 per year.

7. Mandatory detention is necessary for border security.

Australia is one of few nations in the world which locks up asylum seekers who arrive without visas. Not only is the detention mandatory, it is indefinite as well. The detention lasts as long as the process takes - 6 months, a year, 2 years, 4 years – it varies. At present, it is averaging around 2-3 years.

Australian practice has shown that asylum seekers allowed to live in the community while their asylum claims are processed are highly unlikely to abscond. This is because they have a vested interest in cooperating in order to gain full protection rights.

In 2005, Australia introduced a community-based detention system which allowed some asylum seekers to live unsupervised in the community, supported by the Red Cross. Of the 244 people placed in this program between July 2005 and May 2009, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship reports that only two people had absconded.

8. We no longer have children in detention.

Whilst there are no children in high security detention centres today, as at the end of July 2011, there were still however 872 children in immigration detention of some kind.

446 were detained in the community under residence determinations.

329 were in alternative places of detention. People in this form of detention are still locked in secure facilities, kept under guard and have no freedom of movement. Many 5-15 year olds go to school, but not all of them, and for under 5s they do not go to pre-school and have very little recreation.

45 were in immigration residential housing and 52 were in immigration transit accommodation.

9. Australia has one of the most generous refugee intakes in the world.

Australia is the world's 14th largest economy, yet in 2010, we accepted 0.03% of the world’s refugees. From over 40 million refugees globally, we took just 13,750.

In 2009, twenty industrialised countries accepted more asylum seekers per capita than Australia.

The overwhelming majority of the world’s refugees are situated in the developing world in countries neighbouring their own. Pakistan, Syria and Iran each host more than a million refugees and asylum seekers.

10. Asylum seekers coming to Australia could stop in another country along the way.

Asylum seekers who arrive from Africa, the Middle East and South Asia often travel through intermediary countries before arriving in Australia. However, there is nothing unjust or deceptive about this.

These countries are typically not signatories to the Refugee Convention and do not offer protection for refugees.

Indonesia has not signed the Refuges Convention. Asylum seekers in Indonesia are at risk of being jailed if they are found by the authorities. Even if they are assessed as refugees by UNHCR, they are not allowed to work or send their children to school, and they face a wait of 10 to 40 years before a western country offers to resettle them.

Faced with life in the shadows for decades, some of them are brave enough to get on a leaky boat in an attempt to reach safety in Australia. If you were in their shoes, what would you do?

11. Stopping the boats will save lives.

For people who are desperate, people smugglers are their only escape route. Cutting off a person’s last line of escape is no great favour.

And if you are killed by the Taliban, you are just as dead as if you drown.

Since there is no ‘queue’, refugees deterred from a boat trip are also effectively prevented from ever gaining resettlement in Australia. This is the real reason behind the ‘stop the boats’ mantra.

It’s not about saving the lives of asylum seekers. It’s about keeping them out of Australia.

12. Refugees do not contribute to society

By definition, refugees are survivors. They have survived because they have the courage and initiative to do so. These are exactly the qualities we value.

Refugees, who have fought for survival and overcome great traumas, have risked everything to make it to safety. They express immense gratitude and dedication to their new country.

The challenge for Australia is to help newly arrived refugees to rebuild their lives. If we do this, we will reap the benefit of the qualities and experiences they bring to Australia.

There are many refugees in this country who have gone on to do great things and have served us well in the fields of medicine, science, the arts, politics and much more.

Sources:
Refugee Council of Australia - Myths about refugees and asylum seekers
Asylum Seeker Resource Centre - Myths, facts and solutions
Uniting Justice Australia – Asylum seekers and refugees: myths and facts
Chilout (Children out of detention)
Department of Immigration and Citizenship
http://www.julianburnside.com.au/myths2.htm

Don't be fooled by Nick's loaded questions people he uses these forums when he needs to make himself feel better in his insignificant little life. His true calling was radio shock jock but it's so hard to break into! He probably doesn't even surf and found out about these forums through one of his kids. So arguing with him is just feeding the monster.

I think labor made the right move compromising to get offshore processing reinstated. Unfortunately it's a nasty world out there and people smuggerlers are lining up to exploit the vulnerable as well as us.

The good news of the morning is labor has had another bounce in the polls and is only 2.5% off their last election result. People are starting to wake up to Tony Abbott's negetive bullshit!

Great news hey Nick? We might have labor for another term if this trend keeps up!

Nick, go live in pakistan for a year and see how much you enjoy it. When you've experienced what these people go through you might discover why they come here to 'have a lend' of you.

By the way........ did we see your face on the news during the cronulla riots?

>Nick3 - "there way" = "their way", heehee can't right = educated

I'd rather slam my dick in a car door, repeatedly, than argue about this issue.

I just find it embarrassing that in a country where we have so many opportunities, so much freedom, we can't be generous enough to share it with people who haven not been lucky enough to be afforded the same.

Wasn't it just a few days ago the loaded topic drugs and surfing was brought up... Now this??

Erm, drivinlongtime, did you really mean to write 'write' as 'right'? I want to believe you were being ironic.

And Nick, I get that you're pissed off, but mebbe your opprobrium would be better aimed at this country's 'leaders'. A more piss-weak bunch of prevaricating, dissembling, lily livered dickwads you'd be hard-pressed to find anywhere else on this planet.

Thanks craig for your well considered and constructive reply to forum topic.

So nick3 has crawled out from under his rock once again to peddle his misinformed dribble on the world.

Based on his previous posts this particular piece of un-Australian lowlife is opposed to (1.) any action on climate change including a price on carbon (2.) any person unfortunate enough to be on welfare (3.) taxation that might be spent on any social policy initiative that might benefit the average joe (4.) anyone that doesn't work harder than him and now (4) so called illegal boat people.

While it is now very popular among those of the far right (including the conservative party that was once called the liberal party) to call asylum seekers "illegal boat people" there is nothing illegal about there actions. Australia is a signatory to United Nations charters that protect the rights of refugees including the right to seek asylum. Its a fact and law. So nick3 and Tony Abbott you are wrong wrong wrong ....... says alot about the "truth" and "values" of opposition leader and his mad scramble to be PM.

Finally, nick3. Accepting you are the hardest worker in Australia exactly what do you do for a crust, apart from moonlighting for the IPA?

Spot on Craig..instant respect from me.

Nick, say g'day to Riz the 'illegal' boat person!

www.swellnet.com.au/news/775-for-those-who-ve-come-across-seas

Owns and runs a printing business, even employs a few Australians.

Clearly he's clueless when it comes to carrying a surfboard. Who carries it wax inwards??

c'mon people, get some mongrel in ya's, weez iz at WAR.

these bastards are coming to burn down our schools, blow up our churches, eat our children and destroy our way of life.

they are drug dealers, terroriseists and mooslins.

didn't yoos listen to johnny & dubya ? they knows cos the joos told 'em.

Nick asked me how many boat people I support?

Well my mother is the president of a overseas aid organisation called World Families. Its a non-paid position.

Unlike some other more high profile charities who pay their CEO's and collectors, over 90 cents in the dollar fundraised goes directly to those people and communities who World Families sponsor. They have projects in seven countries including Ethiopia which she and my dad visited earlier this year.(they paid their own way)

I have a sister adopted from an orphanage in SriLanka.

All members of my family have given our time over the years to help with fundraising to make places such as Ethiopia a better place. If the standard of living can be improved in third world countries the people are far less likely to want to escape to countries such as ours and the world would be a better place.

I could go on but I hope Nick you might realise that some people in this country actually give a shit about other less fortunate people out there in the world and are making efforts to improve those places.

So what do you do Nick to help those less fortunate then yourself?

Chaps, kudos to Nick for having the courage to put his views out there. Kudos, too, to Craig for a considered response.

Now, ideas and opinions: great. Personal abuse: let's all grow up.

Cheers guys, but I didn't actually write out all those responses I hope you realise. I found a site, among many others which dispelled these myths and put it simply.

They echoed my thoughts though and explained them better than I would of :)

Well nick good to hear you sponsor those kids. If more people did that maybe there would be less turning up on our doorstep.

As for what I do myself I give my time to help with fundraising and donate money when I can afford it. I dont own a business and earn big bucks but I contribute what I can. I have met members of the Ethiopian community in Australia when I travel to places to find out more about areas that are in need of funding that World Families might be able to help with. Just throwing money at a problem doesnt always fix things. It needs to be targeted carefully so the greatest good can be achieved.

I hope the organisation who you sponsor those kids through isnt skimming off the majority of the funds to pay salaries because its sadly all too common. Maybe you could ask them what pecentage is spent on administering the charity you contribute too. At least you will know if your getting bang for your buck so to speak.

hypothetical for you nick -

Your a born and bred OZZIE MAAAAATTTTE who has worked hard and earns enough to be reasonably comfortable, no cabbage soup tonight, (which you say you do).

Time goes by and china has decided they like us enough to invade and spread their delightful communist ideas. men, women and children are being put to the wall and shot, raped you name it.

Now because you have worked hard you've got enough money in the bank to get your family outta here, you heard a rumor that a boat is sailing to the safety of NZ, it'll take everything you own and still the trip is dangerous enough that you could be killing your family by putting them on the boat, but fuck it's better than watching your missus get raped in front of your eyes. But if you arrive you know that your family will be safe forever and have access to a standard of living that you have never known before.

What do you do? Pay the money which you have worked hard to earn and get on the boat? or hang around and take your chances.

be honest.

Staggering.

When I think about this miserable discussion I think back to the way Australia with open arms took 1,000s and 1,000s of Vietnamese refugees at the end of that horrible war. A time when Australians one and all could hold our heads high with pride.

Australia is a better place today because of willingness to accept Vietnamese refugees in large numbers and at time when Malcolm Fraser was our PM (Liberal Party).

Now we have endless talk about illegal boat arrivals, queue jumpers and the like. This language is cynically used for political purposes mostly by Tony Abbott but also by former Howard government hacks ... Vanstone and Reith. I am still waiting for some-one in public life to ask Peter Reith what he understands by the words honesty in government (remember the phone card, waterfront and babies overboard scandals?)

The first task of a Prime Minister is to unite the country. You really do have to ask yourself what sort of Prime Minister would Tony Abbott make when he routinely uses terms like illegal boat people and queue jumpers. Its the language of exclusion not inclusion and certainly not the words of a statesman.

God help Australia.

fark, this ones a firecracker.

what would jeebus do?

1;04 to 1:44. You created 40 mins of peace, love and happiness, Whaaat. That's more than most men can say.

Blessed are the cheesemakers, Stu.

He's not the Messiah Stu, he's a very naughty boy!

>nick3 = fuckwit
teehee

actually thats a tad juvenile. you're just another narrow-minded, paranoic patriot. Try reading Ghassam Hage's work, especially "White Nation". Education is the key mate. In fact, I think you just enjoy the shit you stir up. Probably makes up for the lack of attention in most other areas of your life. (You remind me of those jerks who sneer and act all tribal local to visiting surfers visiting your home break - growUP pal)

tribal local... nothin like driving around with faux koori & no exposure stickers in full exposure, the xenophobic hatred rotting away from the inside out.

now that's livin'.

I for one am sick of the free-loading bludgers from across the sea.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/54000-refugees-no-questi...

Actually, I for one am tired of non-surfing topics on a surfing site. Rednecks will be rednecks and they are very hard to change. May Nick's kids develop better attitudes, and may 'Straya practice what it preaches - a fair go.

Now, back to drugs and surfing!!

Someone start a haters thread so nickknackers can feel right at home. (oh yeah, contry is actually spelled "country" btw - no worries mate, that's how I help the poor rednecks)... You're "guessing" at what everybody else does is part of your problem mate. Be happy with your own life and stop judging others, especially boat people. And go surfing mate, you need to relax.

(Now watch him take yet another bait... what a grunter!!)

Oh and btw nicksuck, seeing as you must know, I spend your taxes on bludgin', surfin', drinkin' heaps of beer and takin' heaps of drugs, and visitin' detention centres to welcome the next load of bludgers. Keep working hard mate cos we need your hard earned dollars!! (yours sincerely, devoted member of the Gillard Surf Team)

Tony Abbott was asked directly 3 times tonight on ABCs 7.30 program to clarify what he means but the term he commonly uses ...... "illegal boat people". Three times he refused to answer the question.

In fact he was asked about his loose use of the truth on a number of issues and was directly asked to clarify what he actually means. On all occasions he didn't answer the questions put to him and in one case deflected the question but saying the Prime Minister needs to answer the questions put to her. Say what?

Time and time again Leigh Sales asked Tony Abbott to answer the questions she was asking him. In all cases he refused.

Now this is the man who wants to be Prime Minister and this is the man who apparently holds truth in public office to the highest of moral and ethical standards. Personally, I find him the most dishonest politican I have ever seen.

Again I am reminded of the Clinton / Bush joke ....... while Clinton may have f**ked an intern Bush f**ked a country.

Read this suckers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ILLEGAL BOAT PEOPLE

(From An Inspector at the Australian Federal Police)

We have all had discussions about the illegal boat people at some time or another.

Most of us can't understand why the Australian Labor government continues to pay for these illegals, while hard working Australians continue to suffer the brunt of taxes, levies and tolls to help pay for this Labor governments’ misspending.

Well the time has come for the truth,

I am asking everyone who receives this email to spread this information as far as you can,

in the belief that it will end up with someone who will do something about it.

According to this Australian Federal Police Officer, who obviously can never be named, here are some of the facts he believes you should be aware of.

[1] Currently the Federal Police are not producing as many drug busts due to the millions of dollars of their budget being put into intercepting illegal boat people.

[2] When the boat sank last year off Christmas Island,

the Australian authorities were throwing life jackets to the children

and the adults were swimming to where the life jackets were, then

pushing the children under the water and taking the life jackets to save themselves.

[3] When the boat people arrive here,

they have already printed out from the internet their rights

and have a list of welfare benefits that they demand from the Australian Government.

[4] Whilst in detention they tell the guards that they are here to serve them

and the Federal Police have already investigated a number of assaults on detention staff resulting from them "not respecting" the detainees.

In other words when a guard doesn't respect or serve these illegal boat people to “their” satisfaction, they believe it's fine to backhand them to gain a little more respect.

[5] After spending around 6-9 months in detention,

the illegal boat people have approximately $10 000 saved in “welfare payments”

from the Australian Government.

They then send the money home

and arrange for the next family member to come here on a boat.

This means we are actually paying for the continuous flood of illegal boat people

via the welfare payments provided to them.

[6] The boat people are all “given” mobile phones

and allowed to phone whomever and where ever in the world they please.

The reported cost of the combined telephone bills for

the first quarter of this year was around $5,000,000.

Yes, you read correctly, five million dollars,

all provided by the Australian taxpayer.

[7] Residents and the Federal Police on Christmas Island only have dial-up internet

which we all know is impracticable in today's internet age.

Yet all the detainees have broadband internet care of the taxpayer.

These are all facts that simply cannot be spoken about by those who know.

Well the time has come Australia to say enough is enough.

Please ensure that you spread this as wide as you possibly can.

Shocking! That's right up there with Pauline Hanson's claim that aboriginals eat their babies! Thanks for enlightening us grocer!

I'm sure Tony will put a stop to all this!!

Never mind the detainees. The next big threat to Australia comes from within.

BABIES

They turn up uninvited.
The government gives them money for doing nothing.
They eat your food.
One day they will take your job.
They will outlive us all.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Stop the Babies.

turner, even worse, those babies will wanna surf.

hahaha! You reckon those are "facts"??? Some moron with a keyboard makes up a bunch of crap about people who can't defend themselves, they mostly dead remember, and you reckon it passes off as fact?? Add to that the rubbish about welfare payments...

And you think it's factual....i'll be buggered. Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you nick.

as for the government...considering both sides have the same policy, there's not much schadenfreude to be had on this one, should the govt change next year.

Anyway, better go. gotta get down to the warehouse early today. I hired a few new blokes this week and they still need help learning the ropes. sometimes they make you wonder if its worth the trouble.

"Holy shit yorksurfer. You don't like anyone coming up with facts that don't tow your line.
Are you denying these facts and what bases do you have to say otherwise."

Much like the 'facts' about climate change you spouted, eh Nick? You know, the ones you copied from Alan Jones and for which he was later proven wrong.

Keep 'em coming...

@nick

Happy to talk about the meaning of the Fed cop's facts, if that's what they are. But an unidentified source of one? C'mon! I'm guessing that you wouldn't want to have to answer rumours put against you by an unknown accuser - why should you?

and @grocer

1 post? You joined up for 1 post?

to nick3

you need a spell checker. basis not bases. pretty basic really.

and this from a self proclaimed small business owner employing 12 full-timers.

to grocer

nick3's mini-me in peddling hatred.