Why is it a ‘possible’ shark attack when there were clearly witnesses? Just because no one actually saw the shark? Guess it could have been a giant squid...

Either way, poor guy. Always awful to hear about these. Fuck this shit. Urbnsurf, take my money!

Is he missing or was he eaten by a shark?
V confusing journalism. Sad story again. RIP and everyone feels for the family and The people who tried to save him.

Yes Freeride, I would expect a little more from the ABC.
My thoughts are with his relatives and friends. I hope they find his body at least if he's not alive.
Bloody hell... does any one know how many shark attacks we've had this year? Getting a little out of hand I feel. I'm against culling though. Love to see some invention of sure-fire alternatives using the repelling concept.

So one of the surfers tried to rescue him from the water but it’s only a suspected shark attack?
What the fuck does that mean?

Tragic
Local Surfer Father of Two
RIP

Human lives ranked below GW bounce back. People cheering on the sharks. Surfing bans more likely before proven affordable devices. Worlds gone nuts.

Terrible. RIP

Terrible news. Thoughts and prayers with his kids and other family.

Despite the moral posturing, there is no ethical footing for the shark hugging crowd to justify that stance.

All animals are sentient beings and it's just fallacy to elevate one clearly non-endangered animals protection above that of any other fish, livestock or terrestrial wildlife that are exploited, controlled or slaughtered by the billions on the daily.

If its about animal welfare, protesting a plethora of other human activities would be more productive.

If its about the environment, then they have clearly been 'managed' successfully before without ecosystem detriment.

Campaigners should first consider protecting animal lives that don't have a human body count attached.

And please don't spin me the line about the oceans being full of rotting fish if it wasn't for GWS, as they never were when GWS numbers were down, and there are plenty of other marine animals, including non-lethal shark species that will pick up the slack there.

Terrible news ..Personally im over the weak as piss response by local authorities...should be drum lines out and sharks culled in that imediate area straight away ...these animals will asociate and remember ...

All the best fellow surfer, family and witnesses. We all love the ocean here on SN and can't even kind of fathom what actually occurred out there today. RIP mate.

Vic hislop we need you!

Three attacks at the one beach. Hard to put that out of your mind for the locals.

Terrible scenario for all at the scene.

My thoughts for the family, friends and community of Esperance.

I think Drone patrols at Known Sharky Locations is a Must.

Heart and thoughts with the family, friends and community. RIP

Can someone please explain cull? Does it mean: find and kill the specific shark; pick off a random few in the area; or maybe it means go on a shark killing spree? Who does it? Under whose guidance? Maybe the scientists whose opinions the culling fraternity disparage so widely, or maybe the old sea-salts who always know better? Maybe we just want an easy solution to a difficult problem because it will make us feel better. Safer? Stronger? In charge? Hint, we are not in charge and never will be. Everything we do has consequence (maybe sooner, maybe later). And the consequence is generally worse than the original problem. But fuck that, I'm angry and scared. Let's kill something.

Very sad news again. Rest In Peace mate.

Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 - time for an amendment.

Sad and sobering.

As we seem to be facing increasing risk with only our own personal actions available to reduce risk, I just re-read the research on electric field shark repellent devices.

I again concluded that the best ones would reduce probabilities of attack significantly, but by maybe somewhere in the 60 to 85% range in a real shark approach situation if you kept your eyes peeled and took evasive action after it first retreated (in the test they often progressively came in closer but less so and with more hesitation than in the control with the device switched off giving more scope for a quick retreat if you saw it). Combined with some anecdotal comments of those who have seen the devices in action, I would lean towards the 85% or higher result.

Good news, but not good enough to send your son or daughter into GW haunts with a sense that they are fully protected. Or, even as a seasoned older surfer, to paddle out at an empty north coast beach or WA reef and feel relaxed and safe. Looking forward, with the shark population growing larger and possibly bolder, they can help individuals lower their risk profile but will not wind the clock back to more carefree times.

As a seasoned older surfer, when I'm surfing at an empty north coast beach or WA reef or particularly at my home break in Vicco where I have felt that 'I'm not alone' when I'm alone and hearing the turbulence of of something in the water behind me.....I'm starting to shit reading these reports

Yep. The wilko footage will have me checking backwards more than before and checking out splashes more carefully. After that video some long paddles across channels or to outer reefs will never be quite the same. Oddly I have always sort of checked out mainly forwards and sideways on such paddles probably missing the friendly GW who sniffed my feet. Maybe better not to look!

Scratch a couple more spots off my comfort zone.

RIP mate.

Condolences to the family and friends.

Hats off to the other surfers who tried to help. Good on you lads, hope you're ok.

{r.i.p} Surfer's Name is enclosed..
https://7news.com.au/news/sharks/surfer-missing-after-reported-shark-att...
Such a terrible tragedy, Police say it's unlikely the Local Surfer could survive.
Search was still well underway but just called off for the night.

A shark was sighted over an hour before attack on same beach
Police later corrected this...(No sighting before attack!)

The Shark was huge, it's Dorsal Fin was a metre high.
2 Friends saw him knocked from his board being savaged & flung in the air.
Friends rendered assistance best they could.
Blood flowed 1km down the beach along the shore
Nearby swimmer saw yet another 2.5-3m Shark inshore straight after attack

Anyone thinks tbb made a 1m Dorsal Fin typo...
https://thewest.com.au/news/sharks/jaws-sized-shark-spotted-off-coast-of...
East Coast + SA have also recorded 6m+ GWS in 2020

A really sad day over west. Hard to fathom how the loved ones and those of the Esperance community are feeling. No need to have a go at the journalism ffs. Considering the fluidity of the situation. This is an isolated tight knit community grieving. Speculation and headlines will only do more harm than good in this raw environment. RIP fella and big love to all those affected. Truly horrific situation. Fuck

tbb notes crew is questioning the no body no attack scenario...

Gold Coast has 2 similar reported attacks with no bodies ...thus no recordings.
Some will note, these 2 Attacks are absent from Goldie (Shark fatality free period).
1st Sept 1974. South Straddie Bar Shipwreck Pair.
Man's neighbour was bitten by a Shark.
He kicked the Shark away but neighbour died in his arms...
Later he was dragged ashore alone on Surfers Beach. (No mates body - Not in files)
http://sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/pdf_directory/1974.09.01-Treveuw...
+
26th Nov 1976 Southport Bar was another fisherman's friend taken by a shark.
There is a witness account in Newspaper version.(No body-not in files)
http://sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/pdf_directory/1976.11.26-NV-vanR...

As with the surfers here witnessing today's attack, may not be recorded as such.
Others may rule Shock or drowning stemming from Shark injuries...hard to fathom.
In any event...none believed the Goldie Fisho's mates & perhaps WA Surfie mates!

Qld Govt & Gold Coast swear we had ZERO Shark Attacks during that period?
We won't be wanting to add more to Gold Coast Shark Tally, not now not ever thanx!
Ambos, Lifeguards & tbb's fanciful shark stories will be censored by Qld Tourism.

Same story everywhere thru-out time...Govt's wanna bury the truth...it's their job.
Cowardly distortion of the facts by WA Govt over attack near here earlier this year.
We hope not again!

Some beautifully vague calls for a cull coming through. How many sharks are we supposed to kill so a few scared bastards can feel feel relaxed surfing in the wild Southern Ocean at the edge of the Great Australian Bight ?

Let’s get specific. I’d like to hear some numbers .

If there’s 10,000 Whites how many does the entitled surfer want destroyed so they can go play splash-splash ?

Half ? Is that enough ? 5000 Whites killed even though there’s an almost perfect probability of 99 .99 percent of them never having harmed a single person.

Three quarters of all sharks ?

90 percent ?

How many animals do you want removed from the last wild frontier so that you can go practice your bog rail cutbacks without a little bit of healthy respect for nature as part of the experience ?

The idea of red neck shark killers posting their brave shark kills on YouTube is about as appealing as seeing that Seppo dentist posting photos on the internet of that lion he shot .

If you intend to eat the animals I might support the idea and I’m sure there’s a lot of pea hearted surfers who’d love to put a photo of themselves eating a Great White Shark Pie on Instagram.

If you think you deserve to surf in the Southern Ocean off WA without a concern for sharks you live in a surfing world I find embarrassingly cowardly . I can respect someone who doesn’t surf because of sharks but not somebody who believes the entire planet should be made risk-free so they can trundle around mindlessly in pursuit of their superficial thrills.

“Give me convenience or give me death “ is all I’m hearing from the crew calling for indiscriminate killing of wildlife.

I’d also like to hear people’s opinions on where it is they would and wouldn’t accept the fear of sharks . It sounds to me like people think that Ballina should be made safe .....do they also think that New Guinea should be made consumer friendly for their ten day package tour ? Or does the idea of sharks there lend a bit of braggable exotic to their Facebook feed ?

I seriously wonder how the Earth ever got populated after hearing the fear mongering going down. You reckon the Polynesian explorers who set out for unsighted island in their little boats demanded that the seas were first stripped of any possible threat ? The resilience of humanity is going backwards at an amazing clip.

Condolences to the friends and loved ones of the unfortunate fella who was taken.

Rest In Peace mate .

This is becoming a regular thing around Oz. RIP

Condolences to the surfers family & friends in Esperance. Once again human interaction with an apex predator in its environment has resulted in the death of a surfer. What is the answer here for surfers??? Lets draw a comparison with another apex predator that has increased its #'s after being protected i.e. Saltwater Crocs. They are caught & removed from areas where humans come into contact with them in high density areas & or known hot spots. Rogue Salties (so called) were shot if it is obvious that they were involved in an attack on a human. This process happens in the N.T. & Far Nth Q.L.D. Perhaps a similar scenario needs to happen with G.W.S. as there #'s have increased to the point where protection of there species is impacting upon us. This has resulted in a number of human deaths over the last two decades & has got to the point where G.W.S. perhaps need to be managed like Saltwater Crocs are in our northern tropical areas. I'm not sure if this is the complete solution to the situation we face as surfers but it is getting to the point where something needs to happen to protect us from the protected G.W.S.

Bees kill more Aussies.
Do their deaths matter? Should we cull them too?

I"m with country bumkin also what happens to a dog after it attacks a person. RIP buddy.

Very sad... RIP. Condolences to friends and family.

So sad. My condolences to the family and friends.

Did a trip to WA back in 2005 with the family from SoCal. Was planning on making it round the corner to Esperance area but the surf was flat so I opted to stick around Margaret river area. Right before I got there a guy got killed in the lineup at lefthanders, my first stop :(. And while we were there a young dive captain got killed in the Abrolhos islands by what they were calling a mini sub sized GW. After getting home we read about a Bronzie chasing kids in shallow water at Gas Bay. Yikes.

I think people protecting the GW's and sharks in general are the same type who have allowed the forests here in California to be over grown. They won't let them manage them with prescribed burns, build fire breaks or even salvage logging of dead trees killed by bark beatles which is made worse from over grown forests. And then we get the tragic fires and people wonder why.

I don't think there's ever going to be a shortage GW's, Bronzies or Tigers in WA. I think they should do cull or allow the fishos to catch seasonally.

Cheers to all of you and stay safe. You gotta it good down there. I had the one vacay to WA and two to the "Yamba" area :-).

BTW a fresh fillet of Bronzie is my 2nd favorite after fresh caught Flathead.

It wouldn't put a detrimental effect on the oceans ecosystem by immediately fishing out a small number of sharks in say the vicinity of a 5km radius of an attack. Maybe half a dozen or so wouldn't be too drastic would it?....There are problematic dogs for instance that don't change up their attacking instincts over time as it's locked in their DNA. A friend of mine was good mates with the deceased and was physically ill and beyond distraught yesterday over the savage loss of life of his surfing buddy, more could and needs to be done is all he kept muttering....a conclusive solution won't be forthcoming but personally I would support fishing a few out of the area of attack as an immediate response. RIP young man and condolences to the family, friends and tight knit community of Esperance

Terrible. RIP. Problem is they don't really know which shark like they do with a croc or dog, they don't hang around.
Hate to think what it will be like in another 20 years when all the 2-3m GWS become 4-6m and even more surfers in the water.

Easy solution, remove those FISH from the protected species list! let the fisher men fish them as they did in times prior to them being a protected species....it's not a "CULL"....it's just back to some semblance of sanity, they are not totally dumb animals and will figure out to move on from areas where they are threatened....eat some flake for a change and ease up on the holier than thou BS about "oh but they are this and they are that blah blah blah"....they are fish simple as that! If you want to get into the sentient beings angle then fish are far less sentient than cows so lets stop killing cows for a start....and sheep...and pigs...

Err don't think the GWS will ever be a commercial food species. Most if not all larger sharks are no good to eat....

X 2 agitator

The stupidity of shark huggers never ceases to amaze. They have enormous difficulty understanding what a 'cull' involves so I'll help them out:
'Culling
In biology, culling is the process of segregating organisms from a group according to desired or undesired characteristics. In animal breeding, it is the process of removing or segregating animals from a breeding stock based on specific trait. Wikipedia'

These dickheads won't be happy if a single GWS is culled but don't seem to give a shit if multiple people are killed/maimed.

We've been at war with apex predators since day dot. To put an animals life before a humans is treason.

X 3 Agitator

RIP mate. Thoughts go out to his family, friends & all involved. Sounds like it was a chaotic & horrific scene involving a very large white (yet to be confirmed).

Back in the day when Whites were fished commercially (targeted or by-catch), what was actually done with them, especially the big ones? We’re they actually processed for human &/or pet consumption?

Similar debates are occurring in Europe with wolves. Dogs get eaten all the time and kids don't play outside in some rural areas.

Notably wolves become rapidly more dangerous once they lose their fear of humans - feeding, eco tourism, no hunting, more exposure through closer proximity.

Sounds familiar.

In some cases problem wolves are identified and dealt with.

But more generally, the level of hunting (permitted and illegal) required to keep the populations low enough to minimise interaction and to simply lower threat due to scarcity is pretty substantial. It involves a lot of hunting and, if the true numbers were ever known, probably the numbers killed are quite dramatic. In Finland wolves are hunted as sport and just part of rural life to the point that they are very wary and avoid humans. I think the wolf population is less than 1000.

Similarly, I suspect the level of culling (hunting) of GW needed to change the safety equation across our vast coastline to return to the perceived safety levels of the period of say 1970 to 2004, would be very substantial - open season non stop catching and shooting for a few years at least. I can't see that happening any time soon.

Experience with wolves, tigers, coyote, dingos and bears does show clearly that some particular animals become repeat offenders due to lack of fear and past hunting successes. Removal of these particular animals can have a major impact locally for the small impact of only a few animals being killed - totally insignificant in the overall population.

That option exist is within the realms of the possible in the current environment. In the ocean, however, with a transient ever moving population of GW, this is harder to do. But I suspect the shark in this recent attack will continue to visit that beach in Esperance quite often. In its memory bank it has has registered the location and the event as a successful hunt and is much more dangerous than the average GW. It would be less cautious and more ready to have a go at a surfer or diver. It probably could be caught and to do so would reduce risks in that area a lot more than just a random catch somewhere else.

Even so, in the bigger picture, it still will not really counter the probable inexorable ratchet up of the risk level as the population bulge of juvenile GWs moves into adulthood. That is what is disturbing to even the more risk tolerant among us. Reunion Island outcomes are more likely than not.

Some predictions:

- Ten years from now the Margaret River Pro may well be a mountain biking race around the coastal bike paths.
- Ocean surfing in many areas of Australia (and the USA) may be a bit like free solo rock climbing, rock climbing without ropes - a niche activity for those who are very adventurous, careful and risk tolerant.
- Grommets will be much fewer in the ocean due to very conflicted mums and dads.
- Wave pools will be numerous but the spillover of crowds into the ocean much less than was expected.
- There will be lots more empty waves away from the few more controlled zones (Sydney and Gold Coast).
- In the wilder ocean areas short sessions, on perfect days wearing some form of protection device(s) may be how ocean surfers balance out risk and reward.
- the debate on what to do will still go on but "blame the victims" will become the simple media, political and scientific go to response.
- localised small scale culls may be permitted to occur but overall their impact will be temporary and overwhelmed by the shark population bubble.
- seals population growth will lead to seal haul outs reclaiming many spots in and around holiday zones bringing in large white sharks into regular close proximity with swimmers, surfers kayakers etc.

Maybe some invention or different approach to using existing technology to repel sharks and change their behaviour might stop the above scenarios from occurring but I would not bet on it.

It’s a crap time for the guy, his family and community for sure.

I knew a couple of guys from Esperance pretty well. One of them married a local girl. They were fishermen, weren’t worried about sharks at all and would paddle around anywhere, even more so than us. But things really changed, dramatically at a foundation level.

All the fishermen on the west coast actively discouraged sharks from interacting with them. And the sharks that did either learned not to or weren’t in the equation any more.

Then tuna farming started. I was in a pioneering family in that field, and I know the full story. A humongous, prolonged burley up from the head of the bight to Lincoln.

At first a few suss stories. Then workers used to freak having to work on the rings. Constant eyeballs, all boats of all sizes ended up relentlessly followed. Divers with shotgun heads were employed throughout the whole process to get all sorts of sharks out of the rings, the burley was bringing them in from everywhere.

Gee look, a feeding frenzy on the balling up fish. All the sharks know when and where. Gee let’s tow bait balls and burley right across the ocean. Wow, look all we have to do is turn on a motor or clunk against the side of the boat and presto, surrounded by sharks. Sharks that get frustrated because they are wasting shitloads of energy because they follow the burley trail for ever and can’t really hit the prize. Trained sharks.

Then they protected them. so the original scenario was totally reversed. Trained to come and then protected.

So back to the beginning scenario. Were sharks endangered? I saw the the footage, and heard all the stories. Some long time fishos that didn’t need the money wouldn’t even get in a tinny in the end. Divers were bombarded by sharks. Workers on the rings were bombarded. Plagues of so called endangered, rare sharks were relentlessly coming in from all directions.

The solution? Let’s introduce cage viewing... Double DUH!!!!

Thoughts are with the man's family and the Esperance community. Thank you for being so hospitable to me when I was sent to your town for work. You live in a wonderful place where the water is truly alive.

Might I suggest that debate on sharks be moved to 'a shift in the hunting grounds'? That thread is up and running currently.

https://www.change.org/Reduce-gws-populations

We need to reduce the amount of whites on our coastline because they are eating people. Australia has a shark problem and not much is being done about it.

put the drum lines out and kill them all. turn sharks into a food source for humans

Neros circus continues.

RIP Andrew.

Large shark wont be fished by commercial fisherman and never has been as an edible product ... Any culling needs to be a state government controlled thing ..But it will never happen just to political same deal with removing shark nets ...15 million dollar shark management plan in NSW was a waste of money to keep a few voters happy ...protecting GWS was another government cock suck to WWF and a money grab by the usual research mobs ...to late to change it ..some of that 15 mill could of gone to legitimate research like development of personal shark deterrants ...the shark issue is going to get worse it cant get better with so many juviniles around ...yeah its part of the deal if your a surfer always has been but make no mistake there has been an increase in shark numbers not just GWS due to fisheries management changes GWS on protected list and global attitude towards Shark finning

As VelocityJohnno has suggested, it would be more appropriate to carry on the shark cull debate on a subject specific forum page and thread that pertains to the issue at hand.
We should all be respectfully mindful and absorb the fact that the families and friends, along with unfortunate participants or witnesses of yesterday’s attack, very recent or past attacks, may choose to seek some small vestige of solace through our genuine condolences and support we declare on this forum page.
R.I.P Andrew…….I hope time eases the pain of grief and loss for your family and friends.

so we have a massive rabbit problem at my place right now, what should i do about these cute little insta famous bunnies of joy? just keep letting them breed up or should i do a controlled cull??

Sharks are always there and we know that, but just dont know how close ,for every 1 we see ,a hundred have seen us. Have a look at Wilkos footage ,swims up to his feet and at the last minute diverts. Wilko hears a splash looks around and its gone and had no idea of how close it was .It is a surfers fear when surfing in sharky waters but they are not interested in us which has been proven over and over but sometimes we cross paths and they have a bite RIP

Such a fun beachy and beautiful area too, so sad, I wonder if anyone still paddles out to the bombie a few hundred m out from shore there? I got a pic of a dude standing tall in a massive barrel with kelp beds beach break in foreground.

not interested in us?

I think that footage proves the opposite and convincingly.

Another one mid-late morning , sunshine, clear water.

Must be finally time to rewrite the official shark advice at the very least.

Also freeride, safety in no's is out the window.

We know some things beyond any doubt. Burley attracts fish, including sharks. Hardwired feeding patterns are triggered. Associations are also formed, which influence behaviour.

It’s basic behavioural science.

https://www.psychologistworld.com/behavior/pavlov-dogs-classical-conditi...

Tuna farming is in essence a gigantic burley up. An unbelievable amount of what amounts to burley is fed to caged tuna dragged across the ocean. And not just in Australia. Tuna are a favourite food of sharks, white sharks. The tuna in this case are stressing to the max. Hardwiring is comprehensively triggered from all angles. At exactly the same time, humans, and all sorts of human activity are taking place. Triggers are formed.

When sharks flee from killer whales the evidence is, all sharks vacate the area for some time. Not just the shark or sharks attacked. Somehow the information is communicated to all sharks to stay away.

We know all this. Somehow we have to untrain, recondition sharks to not be associating humans with hardwired patterns, based around feeding. And recondition them to the same hardwired fear patterns associated with the behaviour that killer whales cause to be triggered. Then that signal will be communicated.

The science proves that it’s possible. But then anyone who’s spent time with pets or animals knows this. Even aquarium owners. Humans even exploit it against other humans. Never underestimate the power of conditioning.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.theodysseyonline.com/amp/pavlov-adve...

We could stop more attacks and tragic deaths, we have the information. But sadly, as is the ridiculous norm in our culture, it needs to be profitable enough to do so. The dollar will be the real deciding factor.

Not sure how you 'train' a GWS without killing a few and hanging them off buoys. Profit not the issue here either - it would be far cheaper for govts to cull than spend endless wasted dollars on scientific studies, but they are too scared of the greenie/shark hugger reaction to cull.
PS Just read that the Esperance locals are meeting with the WA Fisheries Minister but the outcome of that meeting is, unfortunately, preordained.

'Not sure how you 'train' a GWS without killing a few and hanging them off buoys'.

That's like looking through a very, very tiny window. Imagination is unlimited. Solutions are unlimited. Someone will have the answer, if there is enough impetus. It doesn't have to be you. In our culture the dollar rules. The CSIRO is busy making more grog more profitable.

Imagination, and a shitload of dollars, that will need to make a shitload more dollars to survive, took the once considered laughable:

To this:

It is possible to stop the tragic deaths, all round. Its been proven a zillion times over in general life, that you don't have to kill something to condition it to be afraid and flee.

I experienced the effects, short and long term, of 2 of this style of attacks, on those involved directly, witnesses, and the community. So I am aware that its a delicate subject as some have raised. Everyone is different, but I saw that some of those involved would desperately love to see some real solution. Personally, I don't like the idea of digital surf mags adopting an ever growing obituaries only page as inevitable. Americans do that with daily, morning homicide reports, rather than deal with why.

Good post Uppity.

I like your thinkin'.

Such frightening news. Thoughts to family, friends and the whole community of Esperance.

October 8 2013, Diver attacked at Poison creek near Esperance, Deep lacerations to head face shoulder and back but survived. October 2 2014. Sean Pollard attacked at Kelp Beds, survived but badly mauled. And then the attack on October 9. Fair to say early to mid October is a sketchy time along this stretch. I was chatting to a mate a couple of weeks ago and telling him how nervous i get along this coast this time of year. Such a shocking situation for Esperance. The community is so close and have been through so much already. RIP Andrew Sharpe and thoughts to all the crew over there.

Here we are, writing about man eating sharks again....

God gives and God takes, and blessed be the Lord.

No one wakes up in the morning believing it could be the last day of their life. These stories should give us insight into our own life and the people we maybe take for granted that are around us.

As for sharks, Swift, Silent, Deadly, no beach out of reach.

Prayers to his family for strength to endure the loss and find peace with it.

Endless procrastination on mitigation strategies = more deaths, MB. Yes, research one day might find a solution but, in the meantime, a proven solution is readily available but no-one's got the balls to implement it.
PS Did anyone else notice the tragic coincidence that Andrew Sharpe died a few days after the Wilko incident at Sharpes Beach?

RIP to the latest surfer .
Getting jack of all these new school shark huggers telling us this and that . Enlighten everyone on why it's ok to do controlled culling of an animal on the Australian Coat Of Arms but once it's from the water it's sacralidge .

100% agree Scott ....i struggle to understand the attitude .. and why poeple are happy enough to allow cage diving ...we are a hypocritical mob

You struggle to understand why some think it’s an ordinary idea that sharks should be killed just so you can go surfing ?

How’s this for a non- hypocritical solution : There’s no drama if we kill the sharks for food instead of just simply so you can play splash - splash without your ovaries shrivelling, so we need to all contribute towards eating our way out of this shark menace situation.

Estimating that we need 5000 less whites to be able to get the new board out without the unwanted interference from nature and that there’s probably 100,000 surfers , swimmers , divers and water users in Australia who’d voluntarily jump on board for the “ Consume our way to safety “ eat-athon.

5000 sharks at an average gross weight of 300 kgs . Each shark probably yields 65 percent meat - not including cartridge , fins and exotic foodstuffs - and we are talking about approximately 975,000 kgs of White shark meat.

Assuming a portion of 200gms and that’s 4,875,000 serves of Pointer or 49 meals for each worried ocean user.

Feeling hungry ?

I’m sure the fish export industry would be able to give us a hand by shipping a shed load of it to Asia, If we could genetically alter them to be Great Red Sharks the Chinese will pay a premium- colour is a big status marker in China - and we’d have an export industry which could give iron ore a run for its money.

Everyone wins....except the sharks.

I think the ideology that we should kill another species which is integral to the ecosystem that it lives in so we can have “peace of mind” while pursuing a hobby in that ecosystem, which isn’t natural to us, is pretty selfish.

In relation to numbers of sharks and recent attacks, do the fisheries department or a scientific organisation that monitor fish numbers have an opinion? Is it because of more fish, less fish, more sharks, more humans etc?

I’m pretty sure Charles Darwin said when sharks and bees start going extinct all existing life on this planet is doomed.

Example: grandfather was a fisheries Officer in Papua New Guinea. Tiger shark ate a local, locals unable to have death ceremony without the body. Took grandad three days to find the shark, the leg and boot of the deceased. Ceremony had. One shark, that's all.

Dangerous cougars/cats are also killed in the mountains, that's all it takes to assert a kind of order/hierarchy -or don't we like to play?

Does life have to be so serious that every time we enter the water there's a heightened threat of death? Why can't we just play -shark is smarted than us -knows how to kill, and get's no equal justice, are human killers now an accepted part of society?

Life is not a vegan hippy festival. It could be, hopefully will be someday, but it's not NOW. Need to be real with our status as apex predators -do shark have nukes?

the tuna pens which no one wanted in the area because of this risk has nothing to do with the massive spike in attacks since they put then so close to the coast there around 2006 . has it , i was there and the whole community was trying to stop this going ahead because of the high risk of attacks . will here you have it . put one and one together people .

I say don't kill the dangerous cougars, let them run free

I think you know.

‘the tuna pens which no one wanted in the area because of this risk has nothing to do with the massive spike in attacks’

dodgy, the sharks were altering their behaviour and being trained from day one.

Don’t know if you were around, but the first direct effect on surfing was when the two guys with A class tickets had to stop anchoring in the channel along side the break for a surf on their way out fishing, and again on their way back in. This was standard procedure for them for years and years. Not long after the farms started, both suddenly noticed more and more sharks relentlessly following and hanging around their boats.

So they had to stop the practice, even to the extent of having to take a different course in, on the other side of the island to avoid coming near the break. The crayfisherman reported the same thing, and also started coming in the other way.

The wheels were in motion from day one, it was obvious to all concerned. I was in a family that helped pioneer the industry, I know exactly what the chain of events were.

Interesting article on the other surf website. Hard to argue with some points made about Esperance and the surfing community. Agree there has to be some middle ground at some stage. RIP

https://www.coastalwatch.com/surfing/26195/nick-carroll-in-the-wake-of-y...

Fillet and release

I don't have a problem with killing sharks but maybe a middle ground is to tag the shit out of GWS's, install more VR4G receivers and create a system where alerts can be received on a waterproof smart watch as well as activate the alert towers located onshore which are currently required to be manually operated, if a receiver pings a tagged shark, giving the person an opportunity to vacate the water.
Yes it relies on as many sharks as possible being tagged but surely an intelligent species such as us homosapiens can arrange for this to occur...

'That's really interesting Michael. Would enjoy hearing more about this industry but maybe this discussion thread isn't the place.

RIP to the deceased. It saddens and scares me to hear of this yet again.'

Gidday Aussie guy, this is a kind of summary. You know the guys who started fishing for tuna, before it turned into farming well.

https://www.frdc.com.au/media-publications/fish/FISH-Vol-24-1/Port-Linco...

The article isn't exactly a tell all. There are some left out, interesting factors that drove the expansion of farming. But always number one, the Japanese would pay for the raw fish. The whole orange roughy thing made a lot of it possible. That was the real saviour, after the absolutely disastrous foray into Guam, which combined with the skyrocketing interest rates, nearly bankrupted major Lincoln fishermen. Then that cash meant survival, so the farming could happen. The farming was also the way up out of the hole. Some names in the article re farming always make sure they are named in every article, but are actually the butt of many jokes amongst the real fisherman. Jefferies was the spin doctor, the hired gun, and he always made sure there were no sharks at all, don't worry be happy, no environmental damage, just all good, good, good. Remember when the northerlies hit, and the no environmental damage meant a dead ocean floor of tuna shit and pilchard sludge filled the ocean, and a new word was born... 'mort' rates... as fish choked in the shit.

At first there wasn't too much thought about the community backlash, so there was much more open talk about the shark thing. The employees saw amasing shit. The stories about eyeballing the workers on the rings, the interaction with boats, the radical situation the divers were in. That was always the most classic spin to me. No shark issue at all was the spin. So what about the guys that had to jump into the rings daily, constantly, the divers, to get the sharks away, and repair damaged nets. I saw one family member spit it, and refuse to get into any small boats, because of the rapidly increasing shark interaction. But like I said, Jefferies had a job to do, and did it well. Plus the employees, well you know how it works, there is always the fear of being replaced with uncle... so silence of the lambs.

It had a massive effect on how sharks behave, and interact with boats and humans, as well as the whole eco system.

Not to mention when the farmers tried to push down the price of the Aussie caught pilchards used as farm food by importing them and introducing a disease - herpes - into the local pilchard population and decimating them in a massive fish kill which took years to recover. Good job you greedy fuckers.

Took this photo East of Esperance . Heartbreaking stuff. :

https://www.fish.gov.au/Archived-Reports/2012/reports/Documents/Whitting...

Derek Reilly talks to Esperance local on Beachgrit. Pretty harrowing stuff

Interesting article on the side of not culling sharks.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-10-15/shark-predators-attack-ec...

My take away is
1. As apex predator, the GWS helps to keep fish numbers under control. Removing the GWS will unbalance the eco system.
2. Sharks are not local. They travel large distances so trying to capture and kill an offender is all but impossible.
3. Most sharks that do attack are young adults that are exploring what they can and can't eat. Bite test? This was my thought on Mick Fanning's run in - a young adult got inquisitive and got caught up on Mick's leggie.
4. Shark numbers are increasing ? decreasing ? Nobody seems to know for sure.
5. Shark deterrent strategies are worth exploring - do your research.

@Mr Bourne

Why don't you write all this info up in a document and get it out to everyone...people up in high places. Shatter all the dog shit beliefs surrounding "no shark problem".

Was told by an old MNC local GG had apparently been catching and killing GW's recently, was busted....true or not I don't know.

Perhaps some of the people who could make a difference should just say "fuck it" and start fishing big sharks and throwing a few carcasses back in for good measures. Save the human lives not the sharks.

Money is the bottom line for the main players. That attitude was always made clear to me. Even replenishing fish stocks boils down to that. The real thinking is there’s always something to catch.

I built some units and one of the Japanese fish buyers rented it. It was always interesting to watch the hierarchy structure in action. And the games played between the buyers and sellers. The units were large, double garage, and had a lot of landscaped area. When the head honcho would come over, he could never get his head around why their was so much ‘wasted’ space, and why they were so big, and not stacked to the sky, and would lament how much more money I could be making.

As an aside, for dudes sake, ‘the kid’ actually gyprocked the unit. The pure joy of seeing the kid emerge from the cube, coated in flour from head to toe!!! However like his surfing, he was a top tradesman.

As for the ‘people in high places’, thankfully surfers and ocean goers are extremely blessed. Rabs has entered the fray, and has been very vocal about having the surfers backs! No doubt he’s seen all the stuff on here about the attacks.

So, no doubt it will like when the forever vocal Petey Garrett went in to bat for Indigenous Australians and was swinging for the fences!!!???

The Beachgrit interview highlighted is a reality check. Its important to not just let another death simply fade into the background.

'“They were never endangered in the first place,” says Capelli.'

Tuna farming highlighted this. Supposedly endangered sharks were more and more prolific in no time. As I mentioned, early on, so were the stories, and videos. Then when it was more apparent that the public were rallying against farming, suddenly, hey presto, no more sharks. Just kept the divers on board, well, because everyone knows the employers love handing out money to their staff, and only ever dump them at the drop of a hat as a last resort.

'The abalone divers are all in shark cages.'

Same here. Gung ho guys here talk about the increased interaction, and even those that hate using cages, have to. The ever increasing stories are radical.

'“What I can say,” says Capelli, “is that they never had a chance. These are big, big sharks. It’s all over really quick. It’s not mistaken identity, not having one bite and letting go, but chomping ‘em in half, taking the whole body and gnawing on it until it’s gone. Eating it on the surface like it’s a seal.'

Plenty of us here have heard really similar accounts. Even worse. Its no mistake. Its a deliberate stalk and hunt, and full blown take out. When you see someone, a zero bullshit artist, a genuine no fear hardnut, broken, struggling trying to explain. Years later as well.

But, I think there's a shit side effect of our culture. We are conditioned to be so seperate, so individualistic, so disconnected, from everything let alone nature, that we don't really register, until its us. We can't feel another's shoes. We can't even feel our planet dying. Our individuality means all the other shit keeps us occupied. Bills, wages, jobs, possessions, super, taxes, waves, tides, fin shapes, pollies, websites, survival shows. Like rocky does covid 19, 20, 21, 22, 23...

So yeh, like Indigenous Australians, ok ok, yeh, yeh FFS, we get it, I mean we're great guys ok... Bad shit happens to us too you know!!! Jeeze have I got some stories. But, really, seriously? Enough already, how many times do we have to tell ya, just move over... oops I mean on...

Anyway, best leave some room for rabs to earn his keep...

Some great words there MB, if you could get a lend of Rab's ear one day....

"“What I can say,” says Capelli, “is that they never had a chance. These are big, big sharks. It’s all over really quick. It’s not mistaken identity, not having one bite and letting go, but chomping ‘em in half, taking the whole body and gnawing on it until it’s gone. Eating it on the surface like it’s a seal.'

this is what made me take notice, thats full on

Did anyone read the ABC Online News article posted 4 days ago around 15/10/20 titled "Should we kill killer sharks? Why we need to protect the predators that hunt us" Looks like nothing will be done with the current and growing GW risk in terms of human safety based on this article. Not sure what the professor's agendas are but as government decision-makers rely on these individuals for advice, nothing will be done. The advice of these professors should be reviewed independently to eliminate any bias or other interests.

That ABC article "Should we kill killer sharks? Why we need to protect the predators that hunt us" is fucked!. Total dog shit!

From the article;

"Firstly, there's no such thing as a rogue shark."
-------

Hmm really, how can he be so sure? When you look at other species it is not uncommon to find individuals that do exhibit that "rogue" behavior (definition of rogue - an elephant or other large wild animal living apart from the herd and having savage or destructive tendencies - behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a way that causes damage - dangerous, or uncontrollable) so why not a shark because this sounds like a killer shark to me.

More from the article;

"Instead, sharks that attack humans are typically "adolescents" and are in the process of switching from a fish diet to include bigger animals like seals, dolphins and turtles, Professor Brown said.

The theory is that sharks during this phase are experimenting with food, and sometimes kill humans with an "exploratory bite".

"The really big sharks are not the ones that bite people, ironically. It's usually juvenile white sharks," Professor Brown said."
-------

I suppose all the eye witness accounts of monster GWS ripping people to pieces and devouring them must be inaccurate because Professor Brown says so....Professor Brown skid mark about sums up that guys level of expertise when it comes to knowing anything about sharks. Who the fuck are these so called experts/authorities, what's with the dog shit spin they are putting on this subject matter and what is their agenda???

yep, that was a particularly poor article.

Of course non surfers don’t want a cull, it’s rare someone just having a dip in summer has been bitten, sure some doing laps out wide.
Most people are too scared to go out further.

Anybody who thinks there has been no increase numbers of sharks along the east coast is mistaken ...Its not just great whites its bulls and large bronzies ...we have only been seeing bulls frequently in the great barrier reef region and a lot of them for around 5 yrs ...prior to that you hardly if ever saw bulls in the GBR .. ...the fisheries managers know ....James cook university knows it ..the great barrier reef marine park authority know it ...all the research money grabbers know it ...The commercial blokes have been yelling it out ...the recreational fisherman in the GBR are whinging about it ...the only poeple who constantly disagree are the expetrs who want more funding to research some research ...like a fuking mouse wheel...oh did i mention there has been more attacks on divers swimmers and surfers ....

Have a talk to the South Port trawl fleet about the increase in shark numbers off the gold coast ....

A couple of interesting CNN articles which again basically says it's anyone's guess.

A California shark lab tagged a record number of sharks off the southern coast this year.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/19/us/california-shark-lab-tags-record-s...

Sharks have killed 7 people in Australia this year, the most since 1934. Climate change could be a factor
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/18/australia/australia-shark-attacks-cli...

Thats just about the worst article I've ever read on it.

An almost complete total fail.

If you take the hypothesis at face value: that climate change is increasing the strength of the EAC and thus pushing warm water further south you would have a theory that predicts almost the exact opposite of what is happening.

ie White sharks, which prefer cooler water, should have their populations being pushed further south.
The focus of interactions/attacks etc etc should be further south.

Instead we have burgeoning biomass of juvey/sub-adult white sharks in sub-tropical areas.

Also, this is total BS: This all means that animals are migrating further south than normal in search of a suitable environment. Species like yellowtail kingfish, which are typically seen in northern tropical waters, are appearing in droves near the southern island state of Tasmania.

Kingfish (and all seriola sp) are temperate species. Much more common in temperate than tropical waters.

So thats a total fail.

This: Meanwhile, species like great whites that prefer lower temperatures are drawn closer to shores where pockets of cold water also hold abundant prey.

Where's the evidence?

The actual evidence is almost the opposite of that.

SST's were balmy this winter, including for all 3 white shark attacks in NSW/QLD.

So, total fail.

Fuck these "sciencey" articles written by complete kooks who obviously have no fucking idea what is happening piss me off.

but this is what the mainstream actually is fed and believes.

Why do the ‘experts’ always seem to ignore the possibility that just maybe there’s a lot more of them.

Because that would endanger the current consensus and put the status of the animal as endangered at risk.

If anyone is ever curious as to why science may unfortunately be approached with skepticism it’s because of examples such as this :

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/shark-blog/2020/10/shark-b...

The scientist in the article and the article itself goes to great pains to avoid the word attack in every instance of shark interaction with humans. This euphemism is not predicated on any evidence or science. It is a purely ideological and subjective perspective which can be summarily dismissed with a cursory examination of the circumstances of the shark fatalities of this year alone.

When a human is repeatedly bitten despite intervention from other people and the shark consumes part or all of the victim’s body then it is disingenuous vocabulary trickiness to describe the event as a bite. It is indubitably an attack.

If the shark was treating any other animal besides a human in a similar fashion it would undeniably be referred to as an attack.

Scientists who refuse to acknowledge the reality that sharks attack humans with their employment of tricky language treat the scientific community to a great disservice. They reduce public confidence in the ability of scientists to treat their subject with objectivity .

If scientists want to act as public relations for a species of fish then they should remove themselves from the scientific community and register themselves as such.

Another almost complete fail of a "sciencey" article.

This one written by an actual scientist.

Presents nothing but wishy washy speculation that has very low explanatory power and is often contradicted by evidence.

The basis of science is a falsifiable hypothesis. If the hypothesis does not explain the data or is contradicted by it, you throw out the hypothesis.

Does rainfall explain the increase in white shark attacks?

No.

Does sea surface temperatures related to ENSO cycles explain white shark attacks?

2015, a very bad year was an extreme El Nino year.

2020, another bad year has been a developing La Nina.

So, highly unlikely.

Are baitfish more prevalent or somehow being pushed closer to shore and thus increasing white shark attacks?

Inshore bait schools are almost omnipresent along the NSW sub-tropical coast.

We'd need to see evidence that baitfish biomass is a: larger than normal inshore.
b: correlated with increased white shark activity.
c: somehow abnormally large or small generally.

I see zero evidence to back up this hypothesis.

The real question is what hypothesis could account for the ferocity and persistent nature of attacking white sharks on people this year.

Chapman at least countenances the possibility that we could be seen as prey.
"While no one likes to think about it, the other concern is if sharks have become more interested in humans as a potential food source. While the evidence seems to still be pointing well away from this, a more likely explanation is that humans may now be overlapping more in sharks’ natural hunting areas."

Really? There were a dozen people out surfing Wilsons (during school holidays) when Mani was fatally attacked. There were a dozen people surfing Wilsons in 1980, in 1990, 2000 and now 2020.

Show me some actual evidence, that humans are now overlapping white shark habitat more than previously and then demonstrate to me statistically how that makes an attack more likely, given what we now know that small groups are more dangerous than large numbers of people.
Till then, that is pure conjecture, directly contradicted by the Taronga park shark attack graph itself.

I don't think that is true though (that we are being seen as prey).

I think in a rebounding white shark population the increased numbers of juvenile/sub-adult sharks is seeing increased predatory behaviour as those sharks transition from primarily fish based prey to larger mammalian prey.

ie it takes a higher predatory response to bring down a dolphin than an Aussie salmon.
therefore white sharks are becoming both more prevalent in NSW sub-tropical waters and more dangerous as they age and become larger and humans become victim of opportunistic attacks.

btw, here's the above Dr Blake Chapman raising the possibility of partial or total ocean use bans in response to increasing shark attacks or even sightings after the fatal attack on a diver at Esperance in Jan.
I think, a chilling insight into what might be ahead.

"I disagree with the establishment of long-term bans on ocean use because of the threat of sharks, but short-term closure of an area following a shark sighting or interaction, and with certain other conditions (such as when there is a significant food source in the area, like a whale carcass), is a smart management option.

Beach closures due to these conditions should be highly publicised through a variety of channels and adhered to by all ocean users, regardless of water conditions or a person’s skill or experience."