There is no such thing as a 10. The whole concept that a 10 should ever be given is flawed. By giving anything a perfect score leaves no room for differentiation if another surfer in the same heat goes (even slightly) harder/stronger/better than the wave that scored a 10.
10 is unachievable. End of story.
10's are given by way of proving that the "judges" have no idea what the hell they are doing.

Yes and how could John John's be a 10 but Jordy ripped the bag outa his and not make the score? Very confusing to say the least!

Either way, Jordy lost that heat with his 7, not with the 9.93/10.

JJF's air was pretty sweet - the vertical tweek to it was something new, are McTwists the next thing in airs??

Sharp comment mk1. Although it does seem that when it comes down to buzzer beaters, the absolute value of the score is given less focus than answering the 'who won the heat' question.

Subjective judging is the nature of the beast that is Pro surfing, and multitudes of differing opinions is the nature of the beast that is internet commenting...

You can either accept it as par for the course, choose not to watch the tour if it irks you too much, or try and join a club/association and create change from within.

Otherwise, I just love watching the competition. Great comp.

I been watching pro surfing since 1989. Anyone else notice how Kelly has gone from "the best" in small surf to "the best" in big surf as he has aged and new young guns have arrived?? Interesting transition. In 1990, 1991, 1992 he was just phenomenal in comparison to the rest in small surf. From 1993 till about 2008 he has been phenomenal in comparrison to the rest in both small and big. From 2008 till present he is the man in bigger surf and not so much in the small stuff. Big being 6ft plus. Small being 4ft and below.

It all boosts the numbers registering on the ASP site so fists can be shaken at the heat analyzer. The post heat home reviewing is one of the better entertainments with pro surfing.
The judges are under a lot of time pressure and do a good job.
When you get a contentious score, there is usually knowledgeable people on both the for and against sides.

I agree with liekiep. Why is there so much anger about an evolving system? All systems evolve. Constructive criticism will lead to constructive change. My wish is that commentators could overcome there desire to comment with an underlying tone of "it's not perfect, so we shouldn't have a competition".

Judging is based on a personal opinion of a wave surfed. Some people like one thing while others don't. It doesn't make either way right or wrong. Just a matter of perception. Using the 5 judges and an average score between them nullifies any difference and the true score is revealed.

Interesting to hear Kelly's take on a one manoeuvre 10 pointer at a place like Bells. He says it is wrong even though he has benefitted from it. Reckons a wave like Bells should be ridden from start to end to make it the complete package. He believes he lost Bells to Mick because he didn't get the best waves or surf them as well as they should be. The big howdydoody is OK in Brazil as there is no wall only a close out.

They are the best surfers in the world and fall off..............??
IMO falling off, falling over in any professional board sport is a true weakness.
Rate race a 10, I'm kinda down those lines as well !

My 2 cents...Jordy was underscored on both his best waves/Julian was overscored...either way
Was amazing to see the level of commitment from all. The amount of surfers, male and female, that ended harshly on the rocks is like nothing I've seen before.

It's not wether Jordy,s wave was worth a 10 it goes back to the spread and I know you are not meant to treat any one heat differently than any other in like conditions but when one wave is easily worth a full point more than one surfed earlier in the same heat and that wave is in the 9 range a 10 is a gimme.
Hate being cynical but if Jordy had of needed more than a 10 to win it would have been scored across the five Judges!!!

Don't get the 10 thing for Jordy's wave at all. One huge carve then a spin off the top then a long dead section with nothing happening and a boring standard reverse in the shorebreak. Compared to some waves where there is action from start to finish and 4 or 5 huge carves it was hot and cold. Without the hype when I looked at it on youtube I kept thinking 8.5 maybe? Never a 10

To me a true 9.9 (nothing is worth a 10) needs an incredible wave + surfer performance so you are going wow for the whole wave.

John Johns 10 was one amazing move, then a long long dead section and then a shorebreak move he barely made. In totality it did not seem like a 10.

with you on that frog. something mesmerising from start to finish is better than one show-pony move...but what if the JJ move is so inspirational that it leads to the next generation putting 6 of these together in a row as one mesmerising ride from start to finish? hopefully that's the evolution of our sport.

I think history backs you up on that radiation. For a while there at the beginning of the professional era the points for manoeuvres judging system favoured surfers who strung together a long series of safe turns. In the end it proved so boring and unworkable that it had to go. If we look back at the following era the one "radical" move the surfers were aiming for, is now the standard expected in every turn.
On another issue I tend to agree with wellymon about the high error rate at both Bells and the Drug Aware. Slater looked like his boards weren't doing him any favours as they appeared to be over rotating in a lot of turns, spectacular when he recovered but looking a bit silly when he couldn't. Many of the other surfers were over amping and failing to assess just how quickly the wave goes fat at Bells and so were blowing what should have been routine turns. I wonder how many of them have professional psychological support? Keeping to an optimum level of arousal shouldn't be that difficult.

The judges failure to give Jordy his 10 will probably go into the folklore of the sport.
But still, when you look at the wave.

Started with a big cutback, which slipped. That meant the turn ended short of where Jordy would have planned. Jordy took advantage well. Rather than doing a rebound, he could move into more of a normal bottom turn. This allowed a great transition into that fins out, spinning top turn.
He threw another top turn, but got stuck up in the frothy lip.
He then did a nice, fairly standard, pro cutback.
After that, there were three slow mini cutbacks. Really just stalling manoeuves in pro land and a small aerial to finish.

So to recap,
A flawed turn, which allowed a great transition to a radical small wave top turn.
Followed by another top turn in which he got a bit bogged.
Then a nice cutty.
And a small aerial to finish.
Nice. I can see why not every judge gave it a 10.

To put it out there, Jordy has also been on the good end of some pretty horrific judging as well. Anybody remember his heat against Adam Robertson (Wildcard) at Bells in 2011? Robbo easily did Jordy up, even getting a triple barrel on probably the biggest, cleanest, most open wave of the heat. Still only gets an 8 point fuck all. Jordy's best wave is mostly wasted at the start with drawn out turns to get further down the point, gets a couple of (albeit quite nice) carves, and a smaller barrel at the end and gets a 9.5. Everybody cries a river over Jordy being (allegedly) ripped off but surf enough heats and you will get a bad call at some time (just ask Robbo).

That's a great breakdown of Jordy's wave Wally!
Now can you do the same for John John's 10 please and please be just as objective so we can all learn how the judges would have come to their decisions.

Seal, that's a very fair ask.

John John's 10.
John John started with a good aerial. He seemed to be the only person at Bells this year to get in a full rotation before landing. But, he then was got caught way behind in the foam due to his arguably ill-chosen manoeuvre. After taking 10 seconds to re-find the wall, but still with plenty of time to set up his final manoeuvre, John John badly misjudged his final turn to get lost in the foam again.
He did eventually end up on his feet, but who knows what happened in all that foam.
Obviously, you couldn't say he really landed this second manoeuvre.

Yeah, I wouldn't have given it a 10. But, I get confused about the technical fine points of some aerials. Aerial people seemed to think it was awesome. I look on a bit confused, but acknowledge there are a lot of fans who think that JJF's aerial was the highlight of the event.

I wasn't arguing that Jordy didn't deserve a 10. I was just arguing that it didn't seem unreasonable for not every judge to give it a 10. What were the scores 10, 10, 10, 9.8, 9.7. Final score 9.93. Apparently, the judges are terrible because the final score was out by seven 1000ths. I might have given it a 10, but I would think that giving it a tiny bit less was not unreasonable.

J, J, J, J, Je, Je, Jo, Jo, John John,
Did his parents forget his name was John.....!

Thanks Wally and I'm not having a go at you but at the judges.
My thoughts were as yours, John John's air was good but he there abouts stuffed the rest of the wave because of it but still got a 10. Basically they gave a 10 for one turn that sure was a great turn but should have only scored high 8s or low 9s.
To me a 10 is for a perfect ride from start to finish, not just part of it!
But they seem to have a different way of interpreting the criteria than I and many others do.
So basically the judges need to read the criteria and score according to it not on their emotions at the time. Thats my 2 cents worth and I'm sure that's about all it's worth when it comes to making any difference to some of the judging decisions we get to see.

I agree the Robbo was really ripped off. They were beautiful waves that Robbo really respected. Jordy was nowhere near winning it. I am old so I remember Reno Abelira at Sunset getting the best waves, yet Shaun, new kid on the block, Tomson dicked around inside and won the event. History repeats. I think the judges have to rethink the 10 pointer for one trick. A lot of guys can do them now so they have to step beyond it. Julian, Jordy, Gabe, JJay, Filipe...do I need to go on can all produce some amazing airs but sometimes it seems like you have wasted and disrespected the wave. On a close out fine, superduper but on a long wave need to think it through. I thought Julians was amazing however him and JJay, although an incredibly gifted surfers (I wish I was a 10th as good) are no genius's when it comes to thinking things through. Amongst their peers both seem to have a weakness between the ears. No Slater or even Mick happening there at the moment that I can see.

That was an amazing wave of Robbo's though, I would retire from surfing Winki after that one. I missed the whole event and just watched Jordy's wave - what an incredible first turn to second all on a rail. I didn't see much of a mistake. Other forums consensus was that he was ripped. Shouldn't have let himself into the position of needing a 9.97 though. Yawn Rio but may separate the real contenders.

I can see where you are going Stu. From my perspective, that is one of the limitations of the "variety of maneuvers". Let's say that you are surfing six foot Kirra. Do you give the score to competitor 1 who gets deep on a 6ft barrel from top of the point down past Pizza Hut or do you give it to the competitor 2 who gets a 4 foot wave puts in 2 re-entries, 1 snap, 1 cutback, a floater, and a short barrel. Competitor 2 has shown "variety of maneuvers" where competitor 1 has only one maneuver. Just recently Gabriel Medina won the Quiky Pro surfing kiddies where he could put 5 vertical backhand re-entries in a row against Parko who took off behind the rock straight into a barrels, out for a couple of open face carves, and maybe a closeout re-entry. Parko had "variety of maneuvers" where Gabriel had 1 maneuver 5 times repeated. Should Parko have been given the nod for 'variety of maneuvers'? Call me old school but wave should be judged on it's merits, not how many differing maneuvers you can fit in. As for the Jordy/Robbo heat, that too comes down to individual perspective. I have read many accounts agreeing with you in favour of Jordy, I have read just as many accounts in favour of Robbo. Somebody mentioned (might have been in the 'Judge not' forum) perspective can also be different between watching on-site at the event, as opposed to watching on the web. I went back and looked at "The Outsider" account of that heat and pulled this quote... "On the rocks I asked long-time shaper Gunter Rohn what he thought. He was emphatic, "Oh, Adam won it". It appears that perspective can also be different watching from on the rocks or from the Winki cliffs. From your perspective Jordy won it, from mine Robbo won it. Once it's in the history books, there's no changing it though.

You're quite spot on Stu. Surfing to a set criteria is the crux. It is both the solution and the problem. If the criteria is set, both competitors have been informed of the criteria, they know it is rigid, and competitor 1 adheres to it, competitor 2 chooses not to, then advantage goes to competitor 1. No problem with that. However, waves can be a random thing and sometimes don't want to adhere to a criteria. You could have a heat with both barreling waves and waves with long fat walls, depending on if the wave hits one spot or goes wide and hits another spot. Changing tides (think Europe), wind shifts etc also have an affect. Perhaps the criteria should be more of a guide than something rigid, hence judging how well the individual wave allows itself to be surfed and how well the surfer meets that challenge that wave sets.

In the end, somebody will still rate airs higher, somebody will still rate barrels higher, and somebody will will still rate big hacks higher. You will never get full agreement between everyone.

I think we're both winners anyway Stu. Nothing like a bit of positive reinforcement every now and again.

it's not set and it's not rigid. it can change heat by heat.
Ask Richie Porta.

Eureka!
I have listened to what ails the people and have come up with a genius solution.
Get Joe Turpel and Richie Porta to swap jobs.