Proposed offshore Windfarms for the Illawarra & Newcastle

Got a link to the overseas studies?

The overseas study was by Dr Tony Butt and doesn't seem to be online anywhere. Have a feeling it may have been paid for by The Surfer's Path which is no longer in print.

As it stands, around Oz there'll be six zones opened up for wind farms following the recent passing of legislation of offshore wind energy. Gippsland has already been approved and will be built soon with the energy feeding into Loy Yang, while the rest: Illawarra, Newy, Tassie, Portland, Bunbury, are in various stages of planning.

The wind farm in the Illawarra will have floating turbines, each with four anchor points to the ocean floor. I'm not sure of the exact weight of each turbine, however they'd be well under the weight of, say, a coal ship, and there's plenty of those offshore from Newy and Wollongong and they don't, as far as I'm aware, effect swell.

I also wondered about energy loss, however the whole point of the floating turbine is to rise and fall with the swell, much like a boat does. Happy to be told otherwise.

As for Dr Butt, I'm not sure what type of turbines he studied in England. Perhaps they were fixed to the ocean floor and the array interfered with approaching swell?

16 years ago (no details on the study though):

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/ocean-riders-drop-in-to-a-storm-20070...

11 years ago at a different UK wind farm proposal (again, no detail on the report). And the projected loss of wave height has gone up from 11% to 22%.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9861935.sussex-surfers-say-wind-farms-wi...

More reading here (have only skimmed for now):

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/aa16e6a671b941a1a27ab8f081e5fb96

Altering Ocean Conditions ?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2022.818501/full
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/wind-turbines-chur...

stunet wrote:

The overseas study was by Dr Tony Butt and doesn't seem to be online anywhere. Have a feeling it may have been paid for by The Surfer's Path which is no longer in print.

As it stands, around Oz there'll be six zones opened up for wind farms following the recent passing of legislation of offshore wind energy. Gippsland has already been approved and will be built soon with the energy feeding into Loy Yang, while the rest: Illawarra, Newy, Tassie, Portland, Bunbury, are in various stages of planning.

The wind farm in the Illawarra will have floating turbines, each with four anchor points to the ocean floor. I'm not sure of the exact weight of each turbine, however they'd be well under the weight of, say, a coal ship, and there's plenty of those offshore from Newy and Wollongong and they don't, as far as I'm aware, effect swell.

I also wondered about energy loss, however the whole point of the floating turbine is to rise and fall with the swell, much like a boat does. Happy to be told otherwise.

As for Dr Butt, I'm not sure what type of turbines he studied in England. Perhaps they were fixed to the ocean floor and the array interfered with approaching swell?

The depth of wind turbines is in the hundreds of meters, far deeper than the draught of a ship.

Try seeking information about the ‘Star of The South’ wind turbine project off the Gippsland coast. It’s approximately 456km2 in a rectangular grid arrangement, likely to be Australia’s most advanced system offering to supply a third of all Victorians with energy and to meet the Andrew’s government target at no Fossil Fuel use by 2030, to date its all tracking positively from what I’ve heard. Most of the feasibility studies and EIS have been completed, last heard, animal migration was being studied with cetacean movements paramount to it. AW.

carlhubbard wrote:

The depth of wind turbines is in the hundreds of meters, far deeper than the draught of a ship.

Maybe elsewhere but both Blue Float and Oceanex are proposing ballast systems with supporting structure 20m-30m below the surface. Could change but your example seems unlikely.

A pic of the turbines here.
https://novocastrianoffshorewind.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Omslag-altern...

from .. https://novocastrianoffshorewind.com.au/project-introduction/

Lots of different systems: some are floating/tethered, others sit on bottom foundations.

Look at this Thing
https://newatlas.com/energy/h260-18mw-biggest-wind-turbine/#:~:text=CSSC...'s%20new%20H260%2D18MW,m%20(570%2C490%20sq%20ft).

udo wrote:

Look at this Thing
https://newatlas.com/energy/h260-18mw-biggest-wind-turbine/#:~:text=CSSC...'s%20new%20H260%2D18MW,m%20(570%2C490%20sq%20ft).

Gargantuan.AW.

Kent looks to me to be tucked away from groundswells and probably relies often on local wind swells so I suspect a wind farm could have more of an effect from wind reduction and because short period swells are more affected by obstacles than longer period swells in an open ocean area.

But the estimates in the 1-4% you will barely notice in practice in your day to day surf experience.
The visual impact might be a different matter.

Floating wind farms concepts are being developed which would have less swell impact. But this massively increases the scope to put wind farms everywhere - even on deep water coasts.

Weird how the environmental movement has to straddle the cognitive dissonance of desperately wanting to leave the world in pristine state with this having to advocate for this:

Something is not right in where we are heading.

Hi all, I have been involved with offshore wind for >15 years in Europe. Surfer as well.

Hit me with your questions, if I know the answer I'll happily share it.

Hi peekaa, the biggest concerns where I live, aside from visual, are to do with fisheries (crays specifically) and whale migration.. any thoughts/research?

I lived on the coast in Kent for a few months and how anyone could say there was surf let alone the surf was impacted by wind farms would be a challenge.

No doubt the wind farms will be great Fish Attracting Devices (FADs), but I have real concerns for the seabirds. Albatrosses, Petrels, Shearwaters etc which all fly well above the wave heights in strong winds. Plenty of evidence that wind turbines kill eagles so would also impact seabirds.
https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/07/wind-energy-company-...

basesix wrote:

Hi peekaa, the biggest concerns where I live, aside from visual, are to do with fisheries (crays specifically) and whale migration.. any thoughts/research?

With regards to whale migration: it s definitely on top of mind for all developers. It is particularly relevant for so-called bottom-fixed wind farms, such as those expected in Victoria. In bottom-fixed offshore wind farms, the foundation is directly attached to the seabed and the potential presence of aquatic marine mammals requires careful consideration during the design and foundation installation phase.
The reason is that certain bottom-fixed foundation types are traditionally hammered into the seabed, resulting in pressure waves during the installation phase which affect aquatic marine mammals. This is not an issue for floating offshore wind farms, such as those that are currently planned in NSW because they don't use such hammering methods.

In Europe, there are strict rules around the allowable sound emissions during installation to protect sea life. Measurements will be performed at various distances during the installation campaign and rules will be enforced. My experience is that developers have a huge focus on this because they don t want to risk delays with these expensive vessels.

This topic has been the focus of much research and development in the industry. Installation and mitigation methods have been developed that minimise or remove this impact, for example through bubble curtains, Vibrojetting or Bluepiling. It's sometimes possible to plan the foundation installation campaigns outside the migration season.

With regards to cray fishing: I know of some research on the impact of offshore wind farms on crustaceans.
(https://academic.oup.com/icesjms/article/79/4/1175/6547885). Impacts were mostly related to the wind farm zone being inaccessible during the installation period for safety reasons. At the same time, that research was done in UK and similar but different species react in a different ways, so research into the local species and local situation is important.

Offshore wind farms have been built in Europe since the early 2000's. It is found that many offshore wind farms in Europe have higher biodiversity and biomass figures than surrounding areas. The reasons are quite straightforward: The structures act as artificial reefs (comparable to shipwrecks) and commercial fishing is banned from within the wind farm zone. (Recreational fishing is allowed in the wind farm zone in certain countries in Europe).

Some countries in Europe are putting a lot of focus on developing solutions to minimize the ecological impact of offshore wind farm. As an example, The Netherlands awards wind farm zones to developers through a scoring mechanism which emphasizes ecological innovations. This ensures developers put a lot of effort into developing these solutions as part of their bid. An interesting project in this regard is the so-called Ecowende project in The Netherlands. They are building a wind farm with many innovations to minimise the impact on porpoises, bats, birds, fish, etc. Their website lists all the innovations that they are going to implement. https://ecowende.nl/en/

Examples of innovations that I found particularly interesting in this projects are:
- Bird radars identifying and tracking bird paths combined with localised curtailment controls mechanisms (tracking a bird, extrapolating it's path and stopping a turbine when a bird is expected to come too near to that specific turbine)
- Increasing the WTG visibility (to birds) through UV coating of the blades
- installation of artificial, biodegradeable reef structures within the wind farm

I'll get to the surf-related questions later...

Thanks for taking the time Peekaa8, cheers : )

Peeka wrote "The reasons are quite straightforward: The structures act as artificial reefs (comparable to shipwrecks) and commercial fishing is banned from within the wind farm zone. (Recreational fishing is allowed in the wind farm zone in certain countries in Europe)."

Definitely a positive there. Fish life loves almost any form of structure to serve as a protective habitat and place for food to grow on and areas not fished tends to have quite remarkable recoveries in fish life quite quickly.

I think the issues for offshore wind farms would relate mostly to above surface wild life (considerable), visual pollution and economics, once maintenance, wear and tear, replacement costs are factored in.

Swell and windswell impacts are way down the list of concerns unless scale is absolutely massive.

Waves are well able to move under floating structures with limited impact on their energy. Fixed to bottom would have more impact.

I suspect wind farms will be self limiting in scale for a range of reasons. That is not a deeply researched judgement but more a gut feel that some trends have natural momentum with few barriers or negative growth-caused inhibitors. The internet for example.

But with offshore wind farms, so much could not go according to plan and support for them will fade as scale grows.

why the need for wind farms, why not water generators that sit in a line and are turned by the prevailing east coat current, no eye sore, they can be marked with buoys, if they can transfer wind generated electricity why not water generators,

On the impact on swell;

I would say it's very unlikely that there is going to be any noticeable impact. Though windturbine foundations and floaters are large structures, they are insignificant when compared to their inter-array spacing (ie. they are not positioned close together) and their distance to the shoreline. Blocking effects will be very minimal.

There have been a number of studies into this topic. Please refer to https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/aa16e6a671b941a1a27ab8f081e5fb96

gromfull wrote:

why the need for wind farms, why not water generators that sit in a line and are turned by the prevailing east coat current, no eye sore, they can be marked with buoys, if they can transfer wind generated electricity why not water generators,

Good question.
Full disclosure; I work in th eoffshore wind industry so I you could say I am biased. That being said, the reason is very simple; economics and scale.

Until now, nobody has managed to create wave energy generation devices that produce energy at a cost price that comes close to the price of wind energy. They can make sense but only in places where the current velocity is very very large,e.g. some inlets. It is very limited though.

Onshore wind and solar are the cheapest forms of electricity in many parts of the world, followed by offshore wind.
It s difficult to grasp just how much energy each turbine produces and, really, how efficiently it does that.

I am not going to tell you whether they are an eyesore or not. I personaly find beauty in being able to generate energy from the land, water and sky where we live. But that s not true for many. What I can tell you is that they aren't nearly as visible as many make them out to be. They are tall, yes, but very slender and you won't be near hem when standing on the beach. Pictures on the net always compare them to the height of the eifeltower or the statue of liberty. it s an uneven comparison.

It’s a big issue up Norah Head way and some locals were galvanised to attract attention to it. Latest news showing the area for the Newcastle segment seems to me to be well outside the area, the southern most point starting off Swansea or so, and being 20 kms off the coast at that point. But I digress.

Some interesting claims were being made which didn’t quite stack up in my opinion, but it would be good to get some knowledgeable input. Concerns included, but not limited to;

Whale migration - well, at 10 to 35 kms off the coast, which was originally being discussed, I don’t see how the whale migration could or would be affected. Note also that this is a part of the coast that has coal ships banked up at anchor waiting to get into Newcastle since forever. There aren’t so many ships at the moment, but there are always some, and I think the record I have seen is 23 ships visible from shore from Norah Head lighthouse up as far north past Wybung Head as you can see. Somehow the whales seem to manage their way around the ships, which even when anchored are a pollution nightmare. I suspect the whales could manage to go around the wind farms without much trouble.

Effects on waves - well there are some interesting anecdotes here. Many will know of the blocking effects of the 5 islands off Wollongong. Stu can tell us all about them, but from my experience it is particularly for dead South short period swells creating a shadow on beaches north. Note that these islands are quite close to the coast, and shadowing is limited - i.e. Garie beach seems far enough away to remain unaffected, Stanwell can be. Again, Stu will know better.

At Norah Head, there is quite a large island a kay or so off the coast (Birdie Island). It gets pummelled, seriously, with every south swell. I’ve been watching for 30 years and noting with complete surprise how the nearby beach seems to have no shadowing effect. I have checked so many south swells, expecting to see some shadowing and there seems to be zero effect. I would imagine the base of the island would be equivalent to hundreds of wind turbine bases.

Anecdotal, sure, but I am sceptical that a wind farm much further off the coast, with much smaller bases, on a floating arrangement, would have any noticeable impact on swell.

Visual impact - again, I’m sceptical. Having 23 coal ships lined up off the coast, much closer than any wind farm, is a visual impact. And even though they are carrying dirty coal and using filthy diesel and are lit up like Xmas trees, I’m a bit meh. The wind turbine blades, even if lit up on the tips would be imperceptible to the human eye at somewhere beyond 10 kms.

Impact on real estate - we’ll all be rooned. Sorry, spare me. I very much doubt that a wind farm 10 to 35 kms off the coast would affect real estate. Even with all this coal ships off the coast we are constantly badgered by real estate agents. Land prices there have doubled in the last 4 years according to the Valuer Generals.

I’m good with people having a say, and I don’t think politicians or corporations should be able to just build anywhere, or blow up caves that hold 45,000 year old relics of indigenous culture for iron ore.

On the other hand, unless there is a substantive argument against them, and I haven’t read one yet, I’m all good for wind farms.

As a disclosure, I think those wind farms on the way to Canberra are a fucking work of art, a cosmic sculpture of awe-inspiring beauty. Joe Hockey thought they were an eyesore. Joe Hockey is a complete dick though, so there’s that.

There was also a story recently on the effects on bird life from wind turbines. Seems to be no doubt that they do kill birds, quite a lot too. The story mentioned figures in the hundred thousand mark, but I think that was for every turbine in Australia, which at the moment are all on land. Not sure bird numbers 10 to 35 kms off the coast are comparable, but they are great birds, certainly albatrosses, but not sure how many other birds are genuine seafarers.

The article noted that this seemed like a lot, but also noted that current estimates are that domestic cats kill around 2 billion animals per year in Australia. There is something to the argument that turbines will kill birds. On the other hand unabated climate change will kill pretty much everything, including about 8 billion humans, so there’s that.

Currently looking into it, Batfink. Asking around and getting surprising answers, so gotta keep myself open to all opinions.

I've also gotta keep myself free from judgement. Not easy when the neighbour, who owns two cats and lives adjacent to a state conservation area, bemoans the effect turbines will have on bird life.

Amazing how blind we can be to our own actions.

An engagingly despondent commentator on windmills in SW Vic a decade ago,
amid a furor of 'save our cape' campaigners,
was an old bloke who said: 'this cape used to have wildlife everywhere and 2 houses on it, now it has threatened wildlife and several hundred houses.. these people who are against windmills fucked the cape years ago, I couldn't care less now..'

I guess these wind farms would have to be in Australian territorial waters - within 12 nautical miles from the shore?

Nah, Illawarra will be 14kms to 20kms offshore. Newy will be 20kms to 35kms.

Outside our territorial waters, inside our Exclusive Economic Zone - which is 200nms.

That's a good distance, I don't think you'll be able to see them from the coast. In any case, a way better solution than the eyesore on the mainland.

Probably not at Newcastle where the closest are still well over the horizon when standing at sea level. They have a height limit up there of 260m but a large part of that measurement is the blade when vertical so I think you'd be very hard pressed to see them.

Large parts of the Illawarra, which will have the closest turbines at 14kms, rest on the Illawarra Escarpment and that extends how far people can see to the eastern horizon. For instance, I can go one kilometre inland from my house and be over 400m above sea level. From there I can see coal ships 30kms out to sea (in good weather with west winds).

The wind farms will be more visible down this way, though arguably less of a blight than the daily feature of cargo and coal ships anchored closer in.

stunet wrote:

Currently looking into it, Batfink. Asking around and getting surprising answers, so gotta keep myself open to all opinions.

I've also gotta keep myself free from judgement. Not easy when the neighbour, who owns two cats and lives adjacent to a state conservation area, bemoans the effect turbines will have on bird life.

Amazing how blind we can be to our own actions.

Hope the neighbour doesn’t read swellnet

I can hear the "used to be way more swell before the wind farms" stories in the line-up already.

MrBungle wrote:

I can hear the "used to be way more swell before the wind farms" stories in the line-up already.

It's been pretty flat since it was announced - just sayin'

:)

The real world winds of inflation starts to hit wind farm economics.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-22/biggest-offshore-wind...

The energy transition will be way more painful than we are being told.

Yeah a 5% world is a different place to the last decade. Just travelled through SA and really love seeing the wind and solar farms, always think well done to them for getting so far so fast. Adelaide seems to be buzzing in the right way too - easy to get around, filled with businesses that seem to be thriving (many energy and energy construction), supercar showrooms for all the hill driving too :) Cannot help but think they've done it way smarter than Vic or NSW (insert debate here)

As cost of capital is higher and comes back toward historical averages, should be more scrutiny of what to go ahead with. Also note the position all the lithium and rare earth miners charts' are at in the pendulum of fortune...

Gyro3000 wrote:

Thankyou everyone for your input, I’m not against this wind farm proposal, but I want our fears no matter how absurd to be addressed rather than plunging in recklessly, as to my other question in the webinar, these high tension cables are coming ashore somewhere to link up with the system, where is that going to be? . The answer was that they would be possibly drilling underground from offshore then coming in, could that be possibly your favourite beach? ,would that mean above them is a no go area for security reasons?. There’s still a lot to be revealed

Good question Gyro3000 and I fully agree that the developers should address any concern. Often this will involve building on the knowledge and experienced gained in other parts of the world, mostly Europe and US.

The following is based on my experience from Europe and not directly related to any project in Australia:

The exact design of the cable beach landing depends on the beach and dune characteristics in situ, e.g. the soil characteristics.
When trenched, the cables will be a at several meters below the beach and seabed. refer to this page to see how that s done:

https://www.offshore-mag.com/renewable-energy/article/14284674/more-powe...

In that page you can see how the cables are trenched in the surfzone and beach. Further on the onshore side of the beach, the cables are horizontally drilled under the dunes.

During the installation period the beach will be closed off, after that period you should be able to use the beach as normal. (That s at least the case in beaches in Europe)

The way these cables are trenched is by a jetter that shoots water under high pressure in the sand, liquefies it, after which the cable will sink into the soil due to weight. The jetter is the mad max machine in the pictures. it drives over the seabed and lays the cable.

Will this affect banks etc? I think that s possible but only in the sort term after installation. Medium term I don t think that s likely at all; the whole reason why these cables are trenched is that the banks are moving over them and the cables need to remain burried.

Note that the windfarms off Newcastle will be floating ones. that means that the cables between the turbines are also floating. That being said, expect they will be burried closer to shore, in the surfzone and beach.

batfink wrote:

There was also a story recently on the effects on bird life from wind turbines. Seems to be no doubt that they do kill birds, quite a lot too. The story mentioned figures in the hundred thousand mark, but I think that was for every turbine in Australia, which at the moment are all on land. Not sure bird numbers 10 to 35 kms off the coast are comparable, but they are great birds, certainly albatrosses, but not sure how many other birds are genuine seafarers.

The article noted that this seemed like a lot, but also noted that current estimates are that domestic cats kill around 2 billion animals per year in Australia. There is something to the argument that turbines will kill birds. On the other hand unabated climate change will kill pretty much everything, including about 8 billion humans, so there’s that.

Batfink, re genuine seafarers in addition to albatross. The turbines will be located near the edge of the continental shelf which is an aviation highway. During peak migration there are literally millions of shearwaters (mutton birds) plus various other petrels, storm-petrels etc transiting through that zone.

Take your point though re climate change and the impacts it will have on the environment in relation to wind turbine impacts. Too many people is the fundamental problem.

Distracted, Batfink. Hi. I’m a member of one of Australia’s longest running Field Naturalist Clubs, in particular the bird group.
In recent times we’ve had, our own members, national and international speakers present on the very subject of wind turbines and bird collisions.
As previously stated by yourselves and others, birds have way more human induced problems to deal with than colliding with turbines, it saddened me to watch some footage and some of the collisions but on the whole you have to view it through a ‘wider lens’. Great to see SN subscribers concerned not only for birds but for most other influences that are destroying the biological and our own world. Good to chat. AW.

excellent to get your perspective on this AW. Orange bellieds were used to great effect by some people with alternative motives down my way. My only thoughts have been to feel for large, predatory birds that might not have a radar for being pegged, small birds are always on the look out. But then, not for giant white blades. Great to have an overview of the issue from someone who has an intimate knowledge of the broader situation.

basesix wrote:

excellent to get your perspective on this AW. Orange bellieds were used to great effect by some people with alternative motives down my way. My only thoughts have been to feel for large, predatory birds that might not have a radar for being pegged, small birds are always on the look out. But then, not for giant white blades. Great to have an overview of the issue from someone who has an intimate knowledge of the broader situation.

Basesix. Morning. I’ve been involved in Orange Bellied Parrot surveys over several years. Last weekend was a double header, myself and other club volunteers (70 or more folk) completed our Winter surveys, September will be the last ones before the birds head back to Melaleuca in SW Tasmania where they spend Summer. A 650km journey to home base, they feed on the mainland from Autumn up until Spring. Mortality rates, especially in young mature adult birds are up a little at present, known causes are predation by birds of prey and other unknown factors. Overall the birds are multiplying well considering they were on the brink of extinction.The OBP,s and Swift Parrots are the only two migratory parrots on earth that migrate over water. Tiny birds stopping to feed and rest on Bass Strait Islands in particular King Island and those of the Hunter Group. One could argue that this migration was not so arduous in the past, at the last ice approximately 18-25,000 years ago, water was locked up and vegetation hopping across Bass Strait would’ve been a breeze. Birds will continue to die in low numbers striking any man made structures, let alone wind turbines, it’s all the other human induced factors that are killing birds. AW.