2022 Election
My my all these holier than thou Labor voters screaming about Liberal corruption. It's the type of hysteria usually reserved for climate change and Australia Day. I can almost hear their collective thought process - "if we scream really really loud often enough (20-30 times a day on swellnet alone), we might convince normal people that we actually have an argument worth listening to. Oh yeah, let's use as foul language as we can (worked for Kev Rudd) to ram the message home".
AndyM wrote:Reckon it's worth looking at Australia's slide again, especially that drop in the last year.
Federal ICAC now.
X2 plus real time online (1) donations register and (2) diaries for all ministers and shadow ministers so the public knows who is paying to see who, should introduce honesty to the parliament
gsco. Well said, but I fear that post was just not in the Swellnet spirit.
How's anyone going to call you names or mock you after such a rational post?
Vic Local wrote:gsco. Well said, but I fear that post was just not in the Swellnet spirit.
How's anyone going to call you names or mock you after such a rational post?
lol
I can fall back on trying to balance the China debate whenever I feel like copping some abuse..
Although our relationship with China is just another ridiculous policy failure of the LNP that will come back to haunt all of Australia if we don’t change tack.
Is scumo’s hair salon stunt an attempt to get everyone talking about it in order to take the focus off the aged care fiasco ? Doesn’t seem like a smart strategy but nothing lately has been real smart.
Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.
blackers wrote:Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.
Great comment....
gsco wrote:I've been a LNP voter my whole life apart from the last election, where I voted Labor and will do it again.
We're a great nation but I think Australia has tilted a little too far right economically from centre and needs some restoring balance of a solid two terms of Labor government with core Labour values and a focus on tackling some challenging issues Australia is currently facing, as apposed to "leaving it to the private sector".
The LNP and scomo get I believe unfairly criticised for being "absent" or asleep at the wheel, unfairly because as can be inferred from indo-dreaming's comments above and is succinctly explained on their website, their core beliefs are to establish stable economic grounds on which the private sector, with minimal govt interference and distortion, can "do its thing" and solve all problems.
A stable economy is an important prerequisite for living standards and quality of life, but I think the LNP has gone overboard with the private sector worshipping and spread it across too many areas of society in which it just does not work so well and leads to poor outcomes, such as health, education, climate change, aged care, underemployment, inequality and housing affordability, etc. These require strong government involvement and leadership. We even see some shortcomings from this approach in our response to covid.
There is a role for government in society as is clearly evidenced by the Nordic countries: see for instance here and here and here and here and here.
I think Australia is at a choice point historically and needs to decide whether to keep going down the US route of private sector worshipping, inequality and concentration of wealth, further compromising of political institutions by commercial interests, the development of a large underclass of poverty, etc, or instead to be more conscious of the US's glaringly obvious failures and to take more seriously the economic characteristics of the Nordic countries that make them so successful on so many levels.
If I was part of economic policy in the Labor party I'd be very carefully investigating these aspects of the Nordic countries that work so well and cherry picking those which they believe would work in Australia and that the Australian public would accept.
I dont necessarily agree with all that but i do have to say your post come across as well thought out and make some decent points to at least think about.
Personally i think Australia could learn more from Singapore than Nordic countries though.
BTW. I know your talking about the failures of the USA economically but there is also many social aspects where i think we should have some big concerns about following USA too.
And now we see Barnaby sends text messages calling Scumo a liar.
It's a full on shit show folks.
Does anyone think these muppets would actually turn their corrupt, incompetent, fiasco around if they were re-elected?
Nope.
That's why they need to go.
Federal ICAC est. 2022.
Hashtag it.
blackers wrote:Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.
It sure is corrupt when it’s public money!
But it’s not too much to worry about according to Indo because it’s only a little bit corrupt according to some perception thingy majig. Indo the Liberal dill (see shill)
seeds wrote:blackers wrote:Lots of thoughtful commentary about how good things are, ably supported by statistical evidence. However, and no disrespect intended, are not many of the commentators amongst the "winners"; highly educated, working in finance or industry? It is easy to say everything's cool when you really have almost everything you want. My concerns lie with the inequities, the unwillingness to provide adequate support for those who truly need it while throwing cash at mates/benefactors etc. Is this corrupt? Certainly it is not in the spirit of "the public good". Is it too much to expect that we, as an affluent society, can properly look after those who are in need? I think the balance has been wrong for a while. The neo-lib approach of "what's in it for me" just smacks of selfishness and self indulgence, behaviours you expect from a toddler not adults. Unfortunately the blatant lies and avoidance of any responsibility make it hard to take any of our current crop of politicians seriously.
It sure is corrupt when it’s public money!
But it’s not too much to worry about according to Indo because it’s only a little bit corrupt according to some perception thingy majig. Indo the Liberal dill (see shill)
Actually i never said such things i said
indo-dreaming wrote:Over the last 20 years we have been in the top ten most of this time has been under LNP lead governments, sure we have recently slipped out of the top ten so its fair to say an eye needs to be kept on things and maybe some areas need to receive some attention, but the fact still remains we are one of the least corrupt countries on earth both at a government and society level.,
And i also clearly said my focus and what i seek from a government is economical opportunity, a health economy, low unemployment, low interest rates and thats what we have had since 96 since LNP have been in power the majority of the time, opposed to the absolute mess under Labor when Interest rates pushed over 17% and unemployment rates nationally at 11%, it doesnt matter if you are completely corruption free, when you have conditions like that life sucks for pretty much everyone, thankfully we had Howard to turn things around and he become one of the most successful prime ministers in our history and became a second longest running PM that lead to 25+ years without a recession, almost unheard of.
And BTW I doubt the corruption perception index is just decided on what the federal government does you would expect its also influenced by how state government's conduct themselves and i highly doubt things like branch stacking help or enquiries into major decisions about quarantine where everyone suddenly forgets who made major decisions or the other dodgy shit around Gladys.
And BTW incase you missed it or just choose to completely overlook it, you can clearly see where corruption perception increased so you might want to drop the Labor's shit dont stink attitude, im sorry but facts dont care for your feelings 
Oh FFS ID, you're not choosing this hill to die on again.
Last time you put up that chart you absolutely humiliated yourself and you're doing it again. "oops I read it upside down"
Haaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
You've been told before that the drop in the last year of Labor was due to Transparency International changing their methodology. They acknowledge that in their recent report.
And of course your chart is an old one too, missing the disastrous last year of the LNP where the corruption index deteriorated massively.
Give it up champ, nobody is buying your BS.
Info narrowly cherry picking those 17% and 11% figures above is either aimed to deliberately deceive the reader or shows an understanding of Australian political and economic history most aptly described in this instance as infantile and moronic.
When Hawke/Keating floated the AUD (universally seen as a good thing at the time and since) the banks agreed to peg all existing mortgages to 13.5%. The 17% peak in rates info refers to only applied to new mortgages and that peak lasted a very short period. 12 mths??.
It is also worth noting that at the time term deposits were paying over 10% for savers and my super fund was returning over 20% pa.
Again unemployment did hit 11% and it was very hard on an individual and family level but that reset of the economy set up the Howard years and beyond .... these days govts just borrow their way out of (political) trouble; what is Australia’s debt right now? Just under or over a trillion AUD?
Your an A grade tosser VL and full of shit day after day after day especially in that Covid thread.
But i dont know if i agree with this though
Roadkill wrote:He is a bully...and would have been all through school, into work, and would be the biggest mouthy ahole in the lineup. Tolerated but not liked. 100% a mummy's boy...and shitty behaviour would have been excused by mummy, which is why he is the person he is now.
I think you are more likely to be exactly like Tanuki or 90% of Anifa clowns, you were that loser kid at school that got bullied and now you are taking it out on the world even possibly just the online world.
A corruption index FFS? What basis is used for such a subjective concept? It's like saying Kelly's wave was better than Joao's. Anyone paying any heed to such a flimsy concept is kidding themselves yet our Labor faithful blindly grab at it like it's been delivered by Chairman Dan himself.
andy-mac wrote:pFitzgerald inquiry in Qld nailed quite a few of Joh's cabinet, although Joh himself seemed to dodge it ..
More chance of something happening under Labor than LNP. A think a permanent body set up would be best way forward.... Keep an eye on them all....
Re ‘Joh seeming to dodge it’. Yeah, he did, by the skin of his teeth. IIRC, two court cases, jury couldn’t decide in the first one, the second one also was abandoned after jury couldn’t come to a unanimous decision. Reports afterwards was a committed 10 (or 11) to one decision for Joh’s conviction, held up by a holdout who used to be the president of the young Liberals.
That’s our justice system, in action. Plenty of others who didn’t end up with the former president of the young Liberals on their jury were sent away.
We certainly need a proper ICAC, and we will almost certainly get one after the election. I can’t see the LNP getting back on their own numbers, they only have a one seat majority now and you’d have to think they will lose a few. So the most likely outcome is a hung parliament full of Bolshevik independents who are all campaigning on have a strong ICAC, or a solid Labor victory, in which case I’m with zen. Not sure how committed they will be to a real ICAC, given how many skeletons they have in their cupboard.
On the other hand, given that they haven’t been in government for 9 years, there aren’t too many inquiries that could go back that far, and Tony Abbott cleared out the low hanging culture war crap with his pink batts royal commission and then the trade union royal commission.
The big issue is about donations and transparency. If that ain’t cleaned up then we are still being led by corporates, and that ends poorly for everyone but the big corporates.
indo-dreaming wrote:Your an A grade tosser VL and full of shit day after day after day especially in that Covid thread.
But i dont know if i agree with this though
Roadkill wrote:He is a bully...and would have been all through school, into work, and would be the biggest mouthy ahole in the lineup. Tolerated but not liked. 100% a mummy's boy...and shitty behaviour would have been excused by mummy, which is why he is the person he is now.
I think you are more likely to be exactly like Tanuki or 90% of Anifa clowns, you were that loser kid at school that got bullied and now you are taking it out on the world even possibly just the online world.
Oh dear Indo, it hasn't been a very good start for you today, rehashing your embarrassing corruption theories. Your argument is so weak, you've given up and brought out the Antifa card. What a humiliation.
The LNP is the most corrupt federal government we've ever had, and you're banging on about Antifa, rather than mounting a defence for your crooked mates. That's almost as desperate as Scumo washing a women's hair.
It's all gone horribly pear-shaped in the last week Indo. Pretty much everyone knows the LNP is corrupt as all fuck. Scumo is a liar, a complete psycho, a horrible horrible person, and a hypocrite.
But you're holding out. Good for you champ.
Barnaby offers his resignation. The “complete psycho” declines it. We can’t have any of that leading up to an election. Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them
"Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them"
yep
it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him
but the gurus are saying no
Id say nothing is a certain in modern politics...
but... yet another leader replaced, may be a step into the revolving doors of desperation too far...
they've showed their cards. Hard to hide when you show signs of psychopathy and narcism to the public eye. What a waste.
sypkan wrote:"Scotty is done now the public can see that a lot of his colleagues feel the same way as them"
yep
it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him
but the gurus are saying no
Id say nothing is a certain in modern politics...
but... yet another leader replaced, may be a step into the revolving doors of desperation too far...
100% in agreement Sypkan. Just goes to show there is always a first for everything. :).
Regarding John Howard’s legacy, here is one from the archives.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australias-most-wasteful-spendin...
And the IMF paper for those inclined (some lovely graphs).
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2013/wp1305.pdf
I hope they do replace him, otherwise it's going to be a bit of a no contest election, Im sick to the stomach tired of elections where the left candidate just hides (themselves and their agenda) whilst playing the pure personality politics of 'you can't possibly vote for that guy'... here and elswhere...
call me a romanticist, but I actually like a bit of substance. it'll suck if labor gets in on the current... cough cough... 'vision' ...they've been forward enough to not share with the public...
the replacement is tough though
they'll wheel out the old unpalatable potatoe suspects I guess...
I actually think if they wheeled out josh frydenberg they'd still have a great chance of winning
he's the mildest sychopath in the liberal party, quite moderate and even likeable, for a liberal...
"yep
it's hard to believe there won't an attempt to replace him
but the gurus are saying no"
Here's my take on the situation sypkan.
Scotty is a dead man walking. His party hate him, and his women problem isn't getting any better no matter how many cynical photo ops that idiot does.
I'd actually be surprised if anyone challenges Scumo because nobody wants the poison chalice of leadership of that shit show just before an election. Virtually ever single minister is corrupt and/or incompetent so in the spotlight is not a great place to be for them. Also who wants to lead a party to what will most likely be an electoral annihilation?
I suspect Scotty the Psycho will either take the beating himself at the polls or abdicate. If it's option 2, the LNP will then scramble to find the least offensive short term "leader" to try and save the furniture on election day. We are talking about a very drab nobody preferably a women.
My personal preference is for Scumo to remain leader and call an early election. The LNP can get the thrashing they deserve and the country can move on with an ICAC and competent people in charge.
"I sick to the stomach tired of elections where the left candidate just hides (themselves and their agenda)"
Think you're a bit mixed up, Sypkan.
Latham said he'd withdraw troops from Iraq (and was roundly criticised, but of course it was the right decision).
Rudd laid out a policy of fiscal restraint (had to switch to stimulus following the GFC but his policies were there for all to see)
Shorten had the most bold policy for wealth distribution since Hawke.
It's Abbott who broke with tradition and offered nothing going into the 2013 election. No govt before or since has been so silent on policy.
"It's Abbott who broke with tradition and offered nothing going into the 2013 election. No govt before or since has been so silent on policy."
Fun Fact Stu,
I spent a bit of time covering Abbott for mainstream commercial media. I was the least experienced journo going around. The reason why I got the job was because TA spent every single day doing anti-carbon tax BS, repeating the same stupid lines "axe the tax" every single day.
I asked the COS if they wanted any specific questions asked. They said, he won't answer them anyway, "just keep your camera rolling just in case something falls on his head. If that happened we'd run the story". Stations were even pooling resources for these events. They were sick of sending full teams in, so I'd often be the only bloke with a camera just in case somebody abused the fuckwit or he fell over.
sypkan: TA's only real legacy is perfecting the role of cynical opposition leader who gets elected after regurgitating 3 word slogans for years on end. shake n bake maate.
I think he’s referring to hiding Biden in the basement so to maintain plausible deniability of his cognitive decline and The Albatross’ public appearance and policy minimalism over the past two years.
He isn’t called The Empty Chair for nothing.
After the last election had Labor won I was expecting a DLP/ALP type split within the LNP between the few remaining moderates, the christian conservatives, the economic and social far righters and wherever the Nationals sit. Those factions and tensions still exist, perhaps more so, and are now openly bubbling along at a state level especially so in WA, Vic, NSW and QLD (Qld being a case study in its own category of weirdness). If there was an attempt to out Morrison before the election the infighting within the party would go nuclear and they would loose the election by a record margin. No Morrison will not be replaced to save some furniture but expect the biggest political shit fight within the LNP after the loss, its 3 years late meaning the blood loss will be greater.
most of your examples are from back when politics was normal stunet...
the hide n bide is a recent phenomenen...
one could argue hilary was onto it too, make yourself unavailable (untouchable) and just slur your opposition's character ...and their deplorables...
and the shorten example, yeh nah, they went public pretty late too, I'd argue if they floated the ideas earlier, they may have actually detected some of the errors of the ways in their pretty closed shop agenda...
not least, if they went earlier, they might have actually been able to explain them better, ...rather than resorting to some 1970s 80s contrived class conciousness name calling to shoehorn them through...
name calling that totally missed the mark, and tarred their very own voters...
Here’s the beetroot with what appears to be a sober apology to smirko ( a half pissed one would have been entertaining ) but what I found mind boggling in this address to the media is he lists what really concerns Australians . He mentions covid but avoids aged care completely . He stated the other day that the government has done an outstanding job when it came to aged care .
batfink wrote:andy-mac wrote:pFitzgerald inquiry in Qld nailed quite a few of Joh's cabinet, although Joh himself seemed to dodge it ..
More chance of something happening under Labor than LNP. A think a permanent body set up would be best way forward.... Keep an eye on them all....Re ‘Joh seeming to dodge it’. Yeah, he did, by the skin of his teeth. IIRC, two court cases, jury couldn’t decide in the first one, the second one also was abandoned after jury couldn’t come to a unanimous decision. Reports afterwards was a committed 10 (or 11) to one decision for Joh’s conviction, held up by a holdout who used to be the president of the young Liberals.
That’s our justice system, in action. Plenty of others who didn’t end up with the former president of the young Liberals on their jury were sent away.
We certainly need a proper ICAC, and we will almost certainly get one after the election. I can’t see the LNP getting back on their own numbers, they only have a one seat majority now and you’d have to think they will lose a few. So the most likely outcome is a hung parliament full of Bolshevik independents who are all campaigning on have a strong ICAC, or a solid Labor victory, in which case I’m with zen. Not sure how committed they will be to a real ICAC, given how many skeletons they have in their cupboard.
On the other hand, given that they haven’t been in government for 9 years, there aren’t too many inquiries that could go back that far, and Tony Abbott cleared out the low hanging culture war crap with his pink batts royal commission and then the trade union royal commission.
The big issue is about donations and transparency. If that ain’t cleaned up then we are still being led by corporates, and that ends poorly for everyone but the big corporates.
Nicely put!
sypkan wrote:I hope they do replace him, otherwise it's going to be a bit of a no contest election, Im sick to the stomach tired of elections where the left candidate just hides (themselves and their agenda) whilst playing the pure personality politics of 'you can't possibly vote for that guy'... here and elswhere...
call me a romanticist, but I actually like a bit of substance. it'll suck if labor gets in on the current... cough cough... 'vision' ...they've been forward enough to not share with the public...
the replacement is tough though
they'll wheel out the old unpalatable potatoe suspects I guess...
I actually think if they wheeled out josh frydenberg they'd still have a great chance of winning
he's the mildest sychopath in the liberal party, quite moderate and even likeable, for a liberal...
I don't .. I hope he loses the election badly and the seat of Cook... That is what he deserves, oh and then facing a judge at ICAC....
GuySmiley wrote:After the last election had Labor won I was expecting a DLP/ALP type split within the LNP between the few remaining moderates, the christian conservatives, the economic and social far righters and wherever the Nationals sit. Those factions and tensions still exist, perhaps more so, and are now openly bubbling along at a state level especially so in WA, Vic, NSW and QLD (Qld being a case study in its own category of weirdness). If there was an attempt to out Morrison before the election the infighting within the party would go nuclear and they would loose the election by a record margin. No Morrison will not be replaced to save some furniture but expect the biggest political shit fight within the LNP after the loss, its 3 years late meaning the blood loss will be greater.
Hope you are correct, I got my popcorn ready...
"I don't .. I hope he loses the election badly and the seat of Cook... That is what he deserves, oh and then facing a judge at ICAC...."
but if he loses badly, you'll probably only get half your wish...
or maybe you will get the ICAC you desire...
because...
"...So the most likely outcome is a hung parliament full of Bolshevik independents who are all campaigning on have a strong ICAC, or a solid Labor victory, in which case I’m with zen. Not sure how committed they will be to a real ICAC, given how many skeletons they have in their cupboard..."
Im hoping for a super hung parliment, or the ICAC will be dead in the grass / toothless...
sorry labor lubbers, the stench pit needs a good clean out... which means a nasty all encompassing ICAC that sorts shit once and for all...
if labor win by massive majority, practically nothing substantial will be dealt with, if anything at all...
GuySmiley wrote:(Qld being a case study in its own category of weirdness).
Have considered this at length - I believe it's the humidity driving housing design, and the ability to have all sorts of weird hobbies (and do them well) on the lower floor. Descending in part from an eccentric QLD farming family, we have world authorities in their field (cutting of stones) with all the equipment on that lower floor of the Queenslander, we have world authorities in collecting items, we have 80 year olds still climbing on roofs to fix them and refusing help - all part and parcel of the tradition. As a small kid I wondered at the entire underneath of one of the relatives' houses, completely filled with agricultural pipe and an unused Land Rover with grass growing up through the motor. The 90 year old relatives, including my great grandmother, just grew beans and tobacco and my great uncle spent his days smoking it on the verandah and that was it. I even heard of a fellow who was restoring a Supermarine Spitfire, complete with 24L Merlin V12, under the house. It rubs off into thought and politics, it's made my upbringing far more colourful, love ya QLD, beautiful one day and perfect the next.
Update to sportsbet odds, ALP narrowed to 1.35, coalition blown out to 3.10
I’m not real keen on any of the politicians at the moment either , so my only thought really is who is going to pay down the very essential COVID debt we had to have the fastest without over taxing the crap out of everyone….that would be the LNP. Even if you don’t like them, at least leave them in for another term to pay down the bank card then vote them out. Labor won’t be able to deal with our current debt levels as it isn’t one of their skill sets ….and I’m not saying they don’t have any skills….it’s just this isn’t one of them.
It's a seriously depressing thought to be living in Victoria under a complete and utter fruit loop in Dictator Dan and then have each way Albo as PM. (China will be stoked though he will be kissing their arses)
Worst thing is after Scomo and LNP have done all the hard yards and got us through Covid with the economy still ticking along, real estate booming and among the lowest Covid death rate's in the world and one of the highest vax rates in the world, spineless vanilla Albo is most likely going to get all the credit.
It's not over until its over though, a lot can happen in a few months even days, and even if Labor get in once Covid is over they will start slipping back into all their woke ways and get booted out within a term or two.
And thank fuck the borders are open, those kunts would love to shut them again and take away any rights they can, but that wont be very easy now, they will have be liberal lite for a while, the only way they can get in these days.
Anyone concerned about loss of freedoms should really be honest with themselves and ask how it would have been under Labor, you only have to look at the Labor states to see the answer.
Optimist wrote:I’m not real keen on any of the politicians at the moment either , so my only thought really is who is going to pay down the very essential COVID debt we had to have the fastest without over taxing the crap out of everyone….that would be the LNP. Even if you don’t like them, at least leave them in for another term to pay down the bank card then vote them out. Labor won’t be able to deal with our current debt levels as it isn’t one of their skill sets ….and I’m not saying they don’t have any skills….it’s just this isn’t one of them.
100% lets just be thankful they weren't in during Covid or we would be way way more debt.
Optimist wrote:I’m not real keen on any of the politicians at the moment either , so my only thought really is who is going to pay down the very essential COVID debt we had to have the fastest without over taxing the crap out of everyone….that would be the LNP. Even if you don’t like them, at least leave them in for another term to pay down the bank card then vote them out. Labor won’t be able to deal with our current debt levels as it isn’t one of their skill sets ….and I’m not saying they don’t have any skills….it’s just this isn’t one of them.
Optimist in light of modern monetary theory I’m still not sure of the necessity for a government to pay off this
so-called debt.
Apart from political ones what are the ramifications if this isn’t paid off?
AndyM wrote:Optimist wrote:I’m not real keen on any of the politicians at the moment either , so my only thought really is who is going to pay down the very essential COVID debt we had to have the fastest without over taxing the crap out of everyone….that would be the LNP. Even if you don’t like them, at least leave them in for another term to pay down the bank card then vote them out. Labor won’t be able to deal with our current debt levels as it isn’t one of their skill sets ….and I’m not saying they don’t have any skills….it’s just this isn’t one of them.
Optimist in light of modern monetary theory I’m still not sure of the necessity for a government to pay off this
so-called debt.
Apart from political ones what are the ramifications if this isn’t paid off?
Magic Money Tree theory is still just a theory.
The reality is right before you Indo, it’s a theory currently in practice.
LNP better economic managers because Murdoch told me so.... Squawk squawk.
Look at the figures and Labor generally spend less and tax less, and what they spend is towards the welfare of Australians not their mates such as Harvey Norman. Howard was highest taxing govt in history.... And set up a structural deficit... Woohoo....
Are we at a $trillion yet??????
Regarding MMT, the idea is they don't have to pay the debt off, at least quickly.
What is important is the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy. They just need to grow the economy and keep the debt relatively unchanged or being paid off slowly. Then the debt becomes much more manageable, less of a burden and easier to pay off, particularly as taxation income grows proportionately with the economy.
It's like our own personal finances and budget. If we have a certain level of debt that doesn't grow or that we pay off slowly, but our income and wealth grows over time, then the debt becomes less of a burden and easier to pay off.
Note also that the government racked up all the debt by issuing bonds, most of which are at a fixed interest rate of nearly 0%.
But what debt gsco, debt to whom?
So which side is the better economic manager?
On both measures, the level of economic growth and that growth relative to the US, Labor is a better performer than the Coalition.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/09/labor-v-liberal-wh...
gsco wrote:Regarding MMT, the idea is they don't have to pay the debt off, at least quickly.
What is important is the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy. They just need to grow the economy and keep the debt relatively unchanged or being paid off slowly. Then the debt becomes much more manageable, less of a burden and easier to pay off, particularly as taxation income grows proportionately with the economy.
It's like our own personal finances and budget. If we have a certain level of debt that doesn't grow or that we pay off slowly, but our income and wealth grows over time, then the debt becomes less of a burden and easier to pay off.
Note also that the government racked up all the debt by issuing bonds, most of which are at a fixed interest rate of nearly 0%.
I also believe it requires that the debt is spent on projects that employ people and add value to the long term prosperity of Australia such as key infrastructure projects. The money paid in wages is injected back into the economy and taxes are collected. Also projects then may create more effecicny therefore improving economic performance. The Multiplier effect plays a part here.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/multipliereffect.asp#:~:text=The%20....
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