Australia - you're standing in it
"Great just what we need another washed up boomer that thinks its cool to try to be another wanna be Facto wanker and act like a lame 16 year old troll.."
Fact check: Not washed up. Not a Boomer. Not trying to be cool. Not 16. Not trolling. Facto is not a wanker.
Looked in the mirror lately Indo?
Okay i got one wrong seems the boomer cut off was 65. (always assumed it was late 60's)
The rest are obviously true.
You are trying to be cool mimicking Facto's lame one line trolling complete with the same hashtags etc.
Which is clearly trolling.
And Facto is 100% pure complete and utter wanker so are his other half a dozen childish profiles he uses to troll or on a good day shares some link, do you actually see him engage in a civil on topic conversation?.
The reason you people do it, is because you dont like your views challenged or alternative views put forward, you would much prefer and echo chamber where you can pat each other on the back in some old mans left wing boys club.
Anyway, these post bring nothing to the forum and we are just clogging up the forum with BS when others are actually having an intelligent conversation with substance. (this whole water thing)
So i will they to leave it there, and go back to creating post that are on topic that play the ball and not the man.
"Think it was Howard government yeah? The cap and trade market-base water market has achieved substantial results for water reform. it has allowed farmers to be flexible in drought with their water allowance for economic and environmental benefits. as in during hard hard times they can draw upon a market resource for income to sell to another user willing to pay. thats a win for the land, environment and the farmers pocket.
But yeah also desperately needs reform. and probably need to look beyond a market to reduce perverse outcomes. eg. intensive water use monoculture crops in perennial fruit and nut trees / hops etc in the SMDB and monitoring would help that. they should also look at ground water extraction in particular.
Do you have a better suggestion in how responsible water use should be incentivised for use or non use.
if we don't put a value on it how can we value it?"
good onya bonza
howard and those dastardly 'lefties' at 'the wentwoth group' actually, ...from memory... lefties including that nostradamus of bad forsight and false predictions tim flannery...
(who I still like btw... in some llimited (restricted) form / capacity / role or other...)
the lefties wholeheartedly embracing 'market forces' as the answer to all, and it coming back to bight them...
again...
and, I hate to be racist, but...
(#theresalwaysabut #theresalwaysalamememe)
...when chinese billionaires are manipulating, stockpiling, squirreling, diverting, and flat out profiting from a well intentioned scheme, at the expense of life long live on the land country living relatively modest farmers....
well, we desperately need to reasses how things are ....errr... 'developing'...
but agree with the general sentiment bonza
it just appears that truly 'valueing' a commodity as precious as water, has shown to be much more difficult and complicated than the simpletons that embraced neoliberalism / 'third way' economics bullshit ever envisioned...
who woulda thought?
cue lamemo...
Bonza,
How should we use water in the basin? Water above and below the ground should be seen as the most precious of all natural resources. Not to be wasted. Priority should therefore be given to the environment and to the small towns and farmers up and down the rivers. Without healthy river systems you have no small towns and no family based agriculture that the small towns rely on. It is therefore impossible to reconcile corporate large scale cotton and almond growing with the needs of the environment and small towns / farmers. The corporatisation of water IMO has been an unmitigated disaster for the rivers and the small towns; just another neo-liberal economic lie. For too long LNP politicians like Joyce have lied to mum and dad farmers all the while selling them and their water (above/below ground) out to corporate, much foreign owned, agricultural and mining. Question: how many former National Party executive office holders and/or politicians have held senior positions in mining or corporate agriculture after politics in the last 10 -15 years? Hint: you will need all fingers and toes and some more.
"...The reason you people do it, is because you dont like your views challenged or alternative views put forward, you would much prefer and echo chamber where you can pat each other on the back in some old mans left wing boys club."
geez, nail hits head there...
"The reason you people do it, is because you dont like your views challenged or alternative views put forward, you would much prefer and echo chamber where you can pat each other on the back in some old mans left wing boys club."
Seriously Indo, that coming from you. Hypocrisy 101. The likes of facto & some others get under your skin for good reason. Ofcourse you would prefer not to be called out and not to have your conscience challenged, it's uncomfortable isn't it? The history of these forums show that that will never happen thank goodness.
You're right on one count though, this is clogging up this thread. Sorry folks. Carry on....
Unfortunately, people like the Chinese govt can buy lots of our water behind business ID's because it isn't seen as a foreign investment but rather the purchase of a business asset and therefore not subject to the review board...That obviously needs to change.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-06/chinese-state-owned-companies-buy...
The free water market was introduced to overcome the unfair overallocation of water to a minority determined by the states.
A free water market has helped by creating a supply and demand mechanism. farmers respond using water efficiently based on the price.
Yes we have seen speculation with prices being driven by non water users.
Like any good system it needs regulation and improvement to avoid misuse as i mentioned previously.
It is one tool within a framework that has been designed to help the MDB system.
The history of the system and why it was implemented needs to be understood.
It has been a long time since i listened to this but its excellent
https://soundcloud.com/latrobeuni/2019-mann-lecture-chris-guest
Regulation you say? ..... another neoliberal lie. Regulation is always promised, barely delivered and then stripped away to “get rid of unnecessary ‘red tape’ in the marketplace”. Spare me bonza we’ve all been here before many many times
you're right, something had to be done bonza, and it all seemed quite reasonable at the time...
but since then both parties have gone out of their way to sell the country to an unhealthy 'partner', the wheels were already in motion... but a steroidal selling off has kicked in since then, with both parties developing the unhealthiest of addictions to the easy bags of cash
selling just to make an easy buck would have been hollow and bad enough, but the selling off has enabled a sleeping dragon to attempt to take the lot
...all while the snoozing bus drivers of 'the lucky country' filled their own dirty pockets, claiming 'nothing to see here', until it was too late...
almost... hopefully...
Guy -you are simplifying and romanticising a highly complex issue. the reason why the water market was introduced was to address the over exploitation of the waterways by those mum and dad farmers ( nat voters I can assure you) you are so fond of. by putting a price on water you are demonstrating its preciousness.
how has the water market been an "unmitigated disaster" for the small towns? give me a real example? are you sure you mean water market or buy backs? you know the buy backs is environmental water yeah?
how would you allocate the water throughout the system without a price on it. enlighten me. who determines who gets what? when and where?
now repeat after me. "this is a plan. it is a framework. everyone has ownership on it. and is responsible for its delivery. it needs management and improvement and good faith by all".
Guy if you are really interested in the history and why of the plan including the caps listen to the lecture. grab a beer.
spykan the corruption and misuse of the system needs addressing and those held to account without a doubt. it saddens and angers me immensely. much like any other system that gets trashed by the rich and powerful and corrupt.
i think we finally have a good framework and agreement. highly flawed from its original concept and in need of constant management - i would hate to see that thrown out. cnts will always try and find a way to misuse. but we can't let them win.
its taken us nearly 200 years to get this far. we can't throw this chance away.
Indo dreamer this songs for you. Hope it doesn't come across as patronising. But it's the way that you sound to me when you argue Indigenous affairs.
And to simplify it for you, even though you're a bit of an Einstein, here's the lyrics
https://genius.com/Propagandhi-comply-resist-lyrics
Again, not patronising. I just hope it's not too subtle for you. I noticed sometimes you do miss the subtleties so i tried to pick a song that is quite conspicuous in its message. Just change the America to Australia...yadayada.
I'm sure you'll still miss the point. And while we get back on topic, it's probably not a wise idea to be so self righteous in your opinion on Indigenous affairs...when you haven't actually discussed it with indigenous Australians. I guess it would be like reading a book review to review a book but not reading the actual book. You know? Don't be scared to chat. Fear is such a divisive thing also.
And yeah, dude(ette??), i struggle with your posts.
Water needs a price but as I said before the starting to would have been the science around protecting the health of the rivers and water above and below the ground and next protecting small agriculture to protect the towns up and down the rivers. Inferred in what I’m saying is barring anything that harms the environment and /or small agriculture and towns. So what do we have now? Large corporates in cotton, almonds and water speculation (foreign owed??) ..... and small scale (relative) water theft. Plus we have unnecessary mining taking prime farming land and unlimited underground water. How is any of that a success? The Nationals are as corrupt as they come overseeing this collapse. You disagree?
guy - ok good. so you agree water does need a price now.
so how do we ensure its implementation is conducted in a manner that is constructive, beneficial and legal?
may i suggest regulation through monitoring and compliance? how does that sit with you?
you have made some broad accusatory statements but haven't really provided any examples. never the less as i have indicated right from the beginning guy (am i taking crazy pills?)- that yes there are elements that need rectifying within the framework. that is a responsibility of parties that hold power - namely the states you know labour and liberal.
why is it a success? do you understand the history of the basin? do you know how much we white fellas (mum and dad farmers) have raped and pillaged the system to a near trickle - blue green algae, fish kills, water mining, regulation (the flow type), seasonal flows flipped, red gum forests destroyed, massive and complete exploitation. this isn't a recent phenomena.
don't get me started on gold or fish
it is a success Guy because we have an agreement between the states and feds on a framework that has agreed on a environmental water flow target and have begun actions to achieve it. it will be reviewed in 2024 and it needs serious improvement to achieve its goals in my opinion. but its the best we got.
you wanna throw that out? what would you do in its replacement?
Huh?
Water needs a price and the basin needs a plan because of all the history of mismanagement, not sure what I've said that's contrary to that. I also accept that the plan needs the cooperation of both the state and the federal governments given the history, again logic dictates that be the case.
Sure Labor introduced the plan and I remember angry farmers whipped up by LNP lies burning copies of the plan at the extensive community consultations.
I also remember the LNP lies about water buy backs killing small river towns because big corporate players (out of towners) buying it up and making good agricultural land useless (without the water). WTF it happened anyway.
So we move on to the last 8 years of LNP federal mismanagement of the plan. Sure they stopped water buybacks but at the same time they oversaw the further corporatisation of water into the highest bidder/speculator takes all we have now.
So for all the billions spent on the basin how its health? and that of the small towns?
You seem to be ignoring the impact on corporate agriculture on the basin and mining.
Yes its the best we've got but its on life support, ideologically do you think the right really want the plan? Joyce is forever saying he wants govt out of his life.
do i think the right want the plan? yeah i do. absofarkinlutley.
the health and future of the system is better placed than it was prior to the plan and you can google the science on that easily.
but hey if you wanna continue to make this lib vs lab thing sure be my guest.
right bad. left good.
there you win. good chat mate
just reread your comment
"Sure they stopped water buybacks"
seriously guy. the fact you just said that clearly indicates you have no idea on the issue or my points.
you said libs stopped it like it was a good thing?
the buy backs are for enviro water. capice? the libs stopped it -thats bad guy.
mate - listen to the lecture. start there ok.
Sorry bluediamond but im not going to eat the bait and continue to get in a back and forth with petty name calling and other put down BS, so sorry although im sure i could find plenty, no video song reply for you, you know what i think of you and your views and i know what you think about me and my views, the conversation has been done to death, time to let it rest until next time.
These guys are having a decent fairly civil debate going, it's not a conversation i have all that much interest in or knowledge of, so i will just sit back and read the comments, but in my opinion Bonza seems to be them most knowledgable and balanced in his views.
Anyway to tie the two topics together, this water rights stuff does spark my memory about an indigenous person and artist, Bruce Shillingsworth who is also right into this water rights stuff and activist for it all.
And his son Bruce Shillingsworth Jr, is another totally refreshing indigenous person that calls out a lot of done to death stereotypical/cliche backwards narratives, he is only young and only has a low profile but file his name next to sensible and logical forward thinking indigenous people like Jacinta Price, Anthony Dillion, Warren Mundine, so even though small at least there is some hope for the future, even if there is a very destructive and divisive mindset among many like yourself and sadly much mainstream media.
Huh?
Perhaps you need very slowly reread everything I’ve said.
To restate my main point, let the science dictate what the river needs first and then the small towns/agriculture next.
If that were to occur cotton and almonds would probably have to exit the basin.
Now, which side of politics denies / defers /stalls the science of climate? .... and that’s why it’s a left/right debate.
Science before ideology, stupidity, avarice ......
The plan and a price on water is the vehicle to deliver the scientific outcomes for the basin’s environment and small ag.
i have no idea what you are saying.
Ok! Who stole the Oz Internet.
Don't know what Smoko did, but we've been googlefroogled
Started this arvo...tried so many searches even with ABC / 7 / 9 / news
Every Oz search is denying OZ Media TV / News / ABC results.
Keep getting UK / US / Fox / Sky / YouTube - results...
Tip : Bookmark links are fine... just the [ google search ]
Please if the crew would have a crack...tbb will investigate...this is not good!
tbb thinks Google are extorting Oz govt... { $25m Vax Ads going up in smoke }
First China now Google in a full on...Covid Media WAR.
Oz allies are outta here! See Ya Mate ...Yeah! See Ya mate...
I’m not experiencing your problems TBB , my google searches bring up Australian links immediately. Sounds a bit weird what’s happening with you though.
Same as Supafreak here in S WA TBB. I'm getting stock standard Aussie news websites. That's pretty odd though! I'll let you know if anything changes here.
Serious alright ! Got onto ABC / GC Bully...
* Qld Google TEST Search 123 > [ Australian Open Tennis ]
Results - 8 fox links + 6 twitter +3 YouTube on first Page.
tbb will Hot link it & see if it mutates from afar...ready.....321...
https://www.google.com/search?ei=u6AnYPDbMdfN-QbX9oKADg&q=Australian+Ope...
Let's see if we broke the internet....&.....?
Other searches...
Only get - BBC / Bloomberg / AP / ESPN / Aljezeera / Yahoo / Fox / Sky / YouTube
News media + results "Pages Results are cut to 1.2.3.4.5.6
It only blocks out Oz News Media.
Can type in Swellnet (Oz media) it's fine...
It's like 1999 internet....recall when big o/s New Paper's go online...
Wow look!...An Aussie News Paper is now online! My mistake!
PS: Worldwide (Last Hour) Nations are signing to **Google Showcase* *
Think tbb is trialling the "Google Thunderbox Loose leaf Edition!"
tbb is copping a taste of Google social credit medicine.
https://ausdroid.net/2021/01/14/google-shoots-a-massive-own-goal-hiding-...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55660682
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/australia/google-experiment-in-...
Unsure if Google are experimenting with POSTCODES?
It's likely that Google are extorting news hounds like tbb to spread their mantra.
Meaning tbb is a news addict & he'll go fuckin' spazz if we cut his news feed.
Qldurr tbb's words have been censored each decade since the 1970's (Expected!)
But this is more offensive because it's bullying tbb into being a Corporate pawn.
That's the instant feeling...you are nothing more than their digital slave!
China does exactly the same...they cut yer internet access. (Only tbb did no wrong!)
Google are politicizing the World wide vax rollout campaign to bully their agenda .
WHO / HR insists OZ Quarantine must provide Local News access...
If Quarantine operators set www - google search access then google just cut local news link.
Now that is deadly serious & it's a serious crime + it breaches Human Rights.
Pandemic is just a gamerz tool to these oligarchs.
Google News! Another Oz Suicide in Quarantine.
"Nuthin' to do with the Killer vax or google extortion...just saying!"
tbb pays a lot for less internet each day & now cops 20 years less.
Grow tired of Joh's Censorship board. Fuck Google > vote 10x for Quidz!
Oops! There goes the BBC...& Fuck yer *Showcase**...Oops there goes US / NZ!
[f] DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE DELETE
& Fuck [f] most of all, you miserable little turd.
Social Credit China is here & tbb is living the dream. Wakey! Wakey! Censor time!
memo... unshackled the slave...their googly eyes were hypnotising tbb...(Yeah Right!)
Can see clearly now...much better...big thanx. Sorry 'bout that fear factor thingy.
So! Just as tbb was saying...it's not the end of the world if Google Censor you...Wot!
PS: Google's Oz News Censorship lockdown ran from 5:30pm to Midnite.
Just saying if Google targets swellnet crew next time...(Allow for a 6hr penalty)
Get involved if you're inclined to.
https://www.australianunions.org.au/campaign/email-your-mp-and-senator/
I'm digging Facto taking this slant, agree
If it's true they will reduce conditions/pay & casualise full time work further, how the f are people to afford increasingly priced homes...?
Workchoices sank Howard, 1st PM removed in seat since Stanley Bruce iirc, 1929 was it?
tbb, discover the alternatives :)
Never waste a crisis, VJ. I think I said that early last year.
US style industrial relations comin' right up.
Working poor, anyone?
Battery chooks voting for KFC.
Again.
Onwards and downwards.
Not a fan of Morrison but when I heard that line about Jen, his daughters and “being a father of girls” my eyes glazed over. Morrison needed to speak as PM not as anything else.
Hats off to Brittany a very brave articulate woman.
Ha ha the Crikey is such leftist trash, skimmed through the article and then had to laugh that the editor and columnist looked exactly how you would expect....
Speaking of which...
"Better have a daughter, son...better have a real good one"?!
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/scott-morrison-criticised-for-invoking-his-d...
Scummo. Weird cunt.
It wouldn't matter how well Morrison did in anything, wankers like
factmem or should I call him "Legion" would tear him down. People like this think they are experts on everything and yet contribute nothing. Brutal critics of a man at least having a go to do something for the country during one of the toughest periods in history. He was unaware of it and well aware of how bad rape was before his wife pushed it deeper, the media dogs attacked when he tripped over his tongue. He's a resilient bugger though, He will need to be to put up with the heartless dogs that continually circle him waiting for a sniff of blood.
Actually there is a good chance that Morrison did know about it at the time. Now because Ms Higgins has decided to take it further it suddenly becomes a matter to deal with.
If the safety of all women is a priority for the PM why does it take a media revelation eleven months after the incident before something is done?
Senior people in his office, senior ministers and the police knew about it at the time. It would have been a simple process to implement the changes he is talking about months ago.
Instead nothing has been done and now we have another reactionary announcement from someone whose compassion as a human being seems to be triggered more by adverse media than anything else.
“On the Tuesday, Ms Higgins was brought to a formal employment meeting about the security breach from her acting chief of staff, a senior Coalition staffer who was seconded from Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s office.”
“It was in a second meeting that the chief of staff says Ms Higgins disclosed an alleged assault.”
“Despite reporting the incident to the Australian Federal Police within days of it occurring,..”
https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/parliament-house-rocked-by-bri...
Optimist, if Morrison is telling the truth, do you not find it disturbing that a rape has been alleged to have occurred in a Ministers office and the Prime Minister was not informed?
You are being naive and blindly supporting the man,
He is lying, again.
As the last guy who sat in that office said this morning of Morrison not being aware of the rape "I find it incredible. That is to say, very,very,very hard to believe".
Have you had your head up your arse for the last couple of years Optomist?
Image what Jen would have told Scotty if they had sons at the news that the leader of their church, Brian Houston, covered up the alleged rape of boys by Brian’s father!
this whole topic (well, only read the last few pages) is just a whingefest for lefty,green, woke fcuks - gotta laugh, if only you'd worked harder and taken risks in life instead of just being underachieving talkers you wouldn't be so bitter and jealous about those who've made something (the doers)
- hilarious!
So brett68, alleged rape is "a whingefest for lefty,green, woke fcuks"?
Are you trying to out retard Optomist this morning Bret68?
It's a very sad case not just the incident but the fact the girl has had her dreams taken away from her and also it seems the rapist has never been charged?
I hope she now ensures he gets what he deserves, he shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
But yeah Optimist you are correct, but its to be expected we are a minority here in a Labor dominated crowd and its just the nature of the beast especially as a leader, you take responsibility for your whole ship.
Most of those commenting here are the same people that also make excuses for Dans incompetence though which is kind of funny.
Anyway sad case that should never have happened, but at least it's come out now and not a few weeks before an election.
"Anyway sad case that should never have happened, but at least it's come out now and not a few weeks before an election."
Run the Alleged Rapists DNA through the Database ? Re a comment by tit biscuit...he's done this before
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/lk4p3k/parliament_house_alle...
If Morrisons telling the truth and the minister didn't tell him all is well, as I suspect it will be, He's obviously off the minister for taking upon herself to cover it up, and the poor girl should have spoken up straight away and also should have never put herself in that position in the first place, but she obviously got sucked in while pissed after the pub as happens to all of us when your young and stupid. If Morros lying he will be found out and will receive what he deserves so why don't you mockers wait for the outcome instead of judging people before proven guilty.
In any big business when you have a lot of staff under you there is all sorts of crap going on that you often find out about later. Such is life.
She will get her justice.
The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.