The United States(!) of A
soggydog wrote:AndyM wrote:burleigh wrote:thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
Of course. Why on earth would you be against this?
If you're talking about returning to a "rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science" then you have to accept that fluoridating public water is a positive.
There's no reputable scientific evidence that says it's not a positive.There's other stuff that he says that sounds good on face value but he's already established himself as someone to be very wary of.
Are you wary because he’s talking health outcomes. His record with the environment and standing against polluting corporations is pretty good. Like winning court cases and getting better outcomes for the general public. Like a legal record. But hey, if you don’t understand what he’s trying to achieve then yeah, woo woo be scared.
“Are you wary because he’s talking health outcomes”
Que?
thermalben wrote:flollo wrote:True, fuel is cheap from the international perspective. But if you're someone who was paying a $1 per gallon in early 2000s you get a shock when you see $5.50 per gallon in California
Two decades plus is a looong time though.
Can't recall specifics but I'm pretty sure the early 2000's were around 80-90c/L in Australia, now they're more than double that, and have spiked even higher in recent years.
Yeah, true. Maybe that’s not the best comparison. But regardless, they peaked anywhere between 70%-100% from just before Covid. Same happened in other countries. Blame was laid to the war in Ukraine. Media and politicians were unanimously spinning this narrative. Politicians in Australia easily blamed it on ‘external influences’ due to the Ukraine situation. And it worked for them. But they couldn’t really sell this in the US. Biden engaged in Ukraine with incredible eagerness and financial support. They were and still are directly involved. So, many laid fuel price increase blame directly to Biden instead of ‘external’, non controllable market drivers.
for pure comedy gold I rate
1, Trump first win
2.Brexit
3. Voice referendum
4. Trump second win
loungelizard wrote:for pure comedy gold I rate
1, Trump first win
2.Brexit
3. Voice referendum
4. Trump second win
5,Lanslide Coalition WIN ..2025!
quadzilla wrote:loungelizard wrote:for pure comedy gold I rate
1, Trump first win
2.Brexit
3. Voice referendum
4. Trump second win5,Lanslide Coalition WIN ..2025!
6. Scomo’s coal show n tell
quadzilla wrote:loungelizard wrote:for pure comedy gold I rate
1, Trump first win
2.Brexit
3. Voice referendum
4. Trump second win5,Lanslide Coalition WIN ..2025!
I wish
Nah its not going to happen, there hasnt been a one term government in Australia in something like 100 years and Dutton is not that popular, i think the chances of it happening are tiny.
But Labor losing the unlosable election in 2019 surely makes the list, that was a great moment.
Thats the good thing about the Swellnet bubble, it not the real world so our perceptions here get very distorted by a left wing majority and then bang, real world results happen.
flollo wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/DCDQmI7Pjct/?igsh=MWk0bWMyM2E0OXZybQ==
Wow.
Yeah it was hard to see how the polls were going to correct the Trump under reporting.
indo-dreaming wrote:flollo wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/DCDQmI7Pjct/?igsh=MWk0bWMyM2E0OXZybQ==
Wow.
Yeah it was hard to see how the polls were going to correct the Trump under reporting.
He bet 'more than' $30 million and will reap 'almost' $50 million.
Bold gamble cos those odds weren't great.
sypkan wrote:gotta look beyond trump v harris bullshit...
it's bigger than that
and the people losing their shit are caught up on a personality
disorder...
quote
"If the election outcome is as I expected, it should cause the large minority of the country who supported
@KamalaHarris
and predicted her victory to begin to question their sources of truth.Half the country has believed that
@X
is filled with mis- and disinformation, and that they could only therefore rely on The NY Times, MSNBC, CNN and other mainstream media for their news. And they did.If, however, you have been active on
@X
for the last year, you have known the truth days, weeks and often months before the facts appear in the MSM.The MSM excerpted, clipped and cut to defame
@realDonaldTrump
while claiming that
@JoeBiden
was fit as a fiddle. Then when Biden’s polls collapsed,
@KamalaHarris
was anointed the candidate and her hagiography was written with glowing acclaim from the press. But this could not hold as she ducked the media and held fast to the teleprompter.Citizen journalists with their phone cameras in hand captured the real Kamala forcing her to defend her record and her plans in more media appearances. It did not go well and the public demanded to learn more so
@KamalaHarris
had to risk more unscripted media.The doom loop was underway with perhaps 60 Minutes as one of the more dramatic examples, even after CBS tried to save her, most glaringly by excerpting one answer to replace a word salad response to another. But the citizen journalists on
@X
quickly caught and outed this fraud and demanded a transcript.As many who supported Kamala began to realize that they have been misled, they became open to Trump as an alternative, but they didn’t want to rely on the media to understand him because they did not want to be misled again.
They wanted to hear the candidate in his own words and that is where
@lexfridman
and
@joeroganhq
long form podcasts came to the rescue. When Kamala was offered the same opportunities to explain herself, she rejected them. And the voting public could only draw a negative inference.When the story of this election is written, I expect it will be as much about how half of America woke up to the reality that they have been manipulated by the media. This should lead to an abandonment by many of the MSM as their primary source of information. It will push more people to
@X
, to podcasts and other empirical sources, and it will lead to a more informed public.The other outcome I hope happens is the implosion of the Democratic Party. The Party lied to the American people about the cognitive health and fitness of the president. It prevented, threatened, litigated and otherwise eliminated the ability of other candidates for the primary to compete, to get on ballots, and to even participate in a debate. The Party and the administration used lawfare in an attempt to imprison, bankrupt or otherwise kill off Trump as a candidate. These acts are collectively grave threats to our democracy. With the highest irony in order to hide these acts, the Party accused the opposition candidate of being the grave threat to democracy.
The Democratic Party proved itself to be fundamentally undemocratic. It needs a complete reboot. The leadership should be thrown out and those responsible should apologize to the American people.
Honest Abe said it best:
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Reckon you are on the money there re media.
Same could be said about the reporting of a couple of wars happening in Europe and the ME.
MSM proven wrong again and again with what has been reported on other sources.
Once people lose trust of media, it ain't coming back.
Boom tish
sypkan wrote:...he ain't blaming rednecks and losers!
think about that...
maybe half the crew on SM need to reassess their little blame game?
flollo wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/DCDQmI7Pjct/?igsh=MWk0bWMyM2E0OXZybQ==
whales gotta eat too...
shoredump wrote:quadzilla wrote:loungelizard wrote:for pure comedy gold I rate
1, Trump first win
2.Brexit
3. Voice referendum
4. Trump second win5,Lanslide Coalition WIN ..2025!
6. Scomo’s coal show n tell
7. Scomo calling for covid enquiry and inadvertently getting us tarriff'd by China, and inadvertently severing the shift toward China of the 20 years previously
The meltdowns from USA Dems is over the top ridiculous. Crying and carrying on like spoilt children as they didn’t get their outcome.
Trump winning the popular vote pisses them off so much.
The so called celebs are cringy pathetic.
All the talk about Democracy only counts when it’s Democratic democracy.
Snowflakes galore
stunet wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:flollo wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/DCDQmI7Pjct/?igsh=MWk0bWMyM2E0OXZybQ==
Wow.
Yeah it was hard to see how the polls were going to correct the Trump under reporting.
He bet 'more than' $30 million and will reap 'almost' $50 million.
Bold gamble cos those odds weren't great.
Yep it can be dangerous for whales if they get spotted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_JPMorgan_Chase_trading_loss
indo-dreaming wrote:Thats the good thing about the Swellnet bubble, it not the real world so our perceptions here get very distorted by a left wing majority and then bang, real world results happen.
It's a bit like being back in the Uni student guild, but to their credit they have kept their hearts into middle age - for many of us economic reality, or striving for a family and it's interests, takes our perception closer to our immediate interests, and whole populations shift more conservative as they age. If you aren't socialist when you are young you don't have a heart - or some saying like that. The biggest surprise for me in this election is the difference in voting behaviour between young men and young women. I knew about Gen Z going conservative beforehand from our boys and their mates, just picking up on things here and there from about 2010 onward - it was a defined shift from millennials I know who were impressively social, could crowdsource the answer to any problem, connected to the point of distraction, followed their ideals, could get caught out when those ideals didn't match reality. In contrast the Gen Z kids were focussed (achievement based goals), could put the social media down to pick up tools, did the work with no fuss, didn't mind working alone/remote, and looked upon much of the culture wars with a strong wtf. I can report those I know are killing it, great jobs, great savings, great opportunity, socially happy and headed toward their goals. They are very grounded. If the US is similar, it's a massively different demographic.
(The way generations swing, who is expecting the next generation of kids to be wild free hippys?)
"The biggest surprise for me in this election is the difference in voting behaviour between young men and young women."
I think its really just about the perception (much rightfully so) of Trumps attitude towards women more than anything.
Although women do tend to be a little more left leaning, i dont think the divide would be that big if say De Santis or Vance was running in Trumps place, young family men who respect women and dont have that negative past with women that Trump does.
Roadkill wrote:The meltdowns from USA Dems is over the top ridiculous. Crying and carrying on like spoilt children as they didn’t get their outcome.
Trump winning the popular vote pisses them off so much.
The so called celebs are cringy pathetic.
All the talk about Democracy only counts when it’s Democratic democracy.
Snowflakes galore
Especially the celebrities. I reckon that such overwhelming, over the top celeb support for Harris damaged her campaign. I don’t think it works at this day and age. It was perceived as establishment against the rest. Honestly, people are fed up with moral lecturing from these people. Being an actor doesn’t make you a good person. Quite the contrary, a lot of these personalities lead unstable lives; multiple divorces, substance abuses, psychological disorder you name it. Anyone thinking that Cardi B will somehow sway people away from Trump is a joke. Look at her written text, it’s an insult to grammar. Then her teleprompter dies and she doesn’t know what to say. And now she’s outraged and needs to ‘save the democracy’. What a bunch of nonsense.
velocityjohnno wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Thats the good thing about the Swellnet bubble, it not the real world so our perceptions here get very distorted by a left wing majority and then bang, real world results happen.
It's a bit like being back in the Uni student guild, but to their credit they have kept their hearts into middle age - for many of us economic reality, or striving for a family and it's interests, takes our perception closer to our immediate interests, and whole populations shift more conservative as they age. If you aren't socialist when you are young you don't have a heart - or some saying like that. The biggest surprise for me in this election is the difference in voting behaviour between young men and young women. I knew about Gen Z going conservative beforehand from our boys and their mates, just picking up on things here and there from about 2010 onward - it was a defined shift from millennials I know who were impressively social, could crowdsource the answer to any problem, connected to the point of distraction, followed their ideals, could get caught out when those ideals didn't match reality. In contrast the Gen Z kids were focussed (achievement based goals), could put the social media down to pick up tools, did the work with no fuss, didn't mind working alone/remote, and looked upon much of the culture wars with a strong wtf. I can report those I know are killing it, great jobs, great savings, great opportunity, socially happy and headed toward their goals. They are very grounded. If the US is similar, it's a massively different demographic.
(The way generations swing, who is expecting the next generation of kids to be wild free hippys?)
That's very insightful.
I think my Dad used to say to vote Liberal in your youth you have no heart. And to vote Labor in maturity you have no brain.
indo-dreaming wrote:Thats the good thing about the Swellnet bubble, it not the real world so our perceptions here get very distorted by a left wing majority and then bang, real world results happen.
The 'Swellnet bubble' (if there is one) has little relevance with US politics, as 95% of our audience is Australian.
And if we have a left wing majority (which would be ironic, considering some of the angry emails we have received over the years for "hosting a right wing troll fest"), I suppose for balance there's gotta be a surf website out there with a right wing majority.
If this doesn't exist, perhaps surfers are predisposed to a left wing position?
This is a great article that demonstrates superiority of Trump’s campaign.
https://www.thefp.com/p/trumps-podcast-offensive-worked-rogan-kamala
Did anyone listen to the Trump/Rogan podcast?
I gave it a go and got about 10 mins in- just so much rambling word salad.
I came away from it thinking Trump was more senile than Biden- completely incapable of expressing a coherent though.
Here is 6 mins of absolute gibberish as an example- could anyone get through 3 hrs of this?
flollo wrote:Roadkill wrote:The meltdowns from USA Dems is over the top ridiculous. Crying and carrying on like spoilt children as they didn’t get their outcome.
Trump winning the popular vote pisses them off so much.
The so called celebs are cringy pathetic.
All the talk about Democracy only counts when it’s Democratic democracy.
Snowflakes galore
Especially the celebrities. I reckon that such overwhelming, over the top celeb support for Harris damaged her campaign. I don’t think it works at this day and age. It was perceived as establishment against the rest. Honestly, people are fed up with moral lecturing from these people. Being an actor doesn’t make you a good person. Quite the contrary, a lot of these personalities lead unstable lives; multiple divorces, substance abuses, psychological disorder you name it. Anyone thinking that Cardi B will somehow sway people away from Trump is a joke. Look at her written text, it’s an insult to grammar. Then her teleprompter dies and she doesn’t know what to say. And now she’s outraged and needs to ‘save the democracy’. What a bunch of nonsense.
I lasted about 10 minutes, skipped along a few times but found it pretty boring, did laugh when rogan told trump he said some pretty wild shit in past when trump was complaining about media .
yep, another 10-minuter here. just came away thinking, 'people who are into trump, especially those who believe trump was wronged last election, or bought trump-brand gold coins or cards, or were at the sneaker convention where trump launched his $3000 sneakers, of those who bought $50 knock-off sneakers, or bought a $5 mug with trump's mug-shot, or those who believe trump the only way forward... would love this; those who don't like trump won't like it.'
I didn't watch the whole thing yet but I will. Watched bits and pieces. Yeah, there's a lot of rubbish, some funny stuff, good stuff. It goes for 3 hours! That's the point with Joe Rogan, it's a long, open conversation and listeneres have an opportunity to make their own judgments.
I was trying to find some clue as to the Trump appeal and I'm still baffled after listening to him talk unscripted.
Does anyone have any detailed understanding of his economic plans?
I heard no info from him about that either.
^ drill, drill, drill haha
… ‘leaders’ ;)
- Yeah, there’s a lot of rubbish ;);)
https://m.
https://m.
&pp=ygUcVHJ1bXAgZ3JhYiB0aGVtIGJ5IHRoZSBwdXNzeQ%3D%3D thermalben wrote:indo-dreaming wrote:Thats the good thing about the Swellnet bubble, it not the real world so our perceptions here get very distorted by a left wing majority and then bang, real world results happen.
The 'Swellnet bubble' (if there is one) has little relevance with US politics, as 95% of our audience is Australian.
And if we have a left wing majority (which would be ironic, considering some of the angry emails we have received over the years for "hosting a right wing troll fest"), I suppose for balance there's gotta be a surf website out there with a right wing majority.
If this doesn't exist, perhaps surfers are predisposed to a left wing position?
I didnt mean it as an insult to Swellnet It's more just an observation of views in the forum that i think is hard to deny, for instance just have a look in the Australia political thread very pro Labor or when the Voice was under debate or even in this thread.
Those that lean right, or those against the voice, or pro Trump are all in clear minorities, and thats not a complaint as a conservative I honestly kind of like being in the minority,
Yes 100% historically surfers are predisposed to a left wing position, but i do think things are changing maybe with younger surfers,most posting here seem to be 40+ so they come from a time when conservative's were very different (think Joh Bjelke-Petersen era and mind set)
I think surfers changing is just a reflection of the left and right world wide changing, conservative's use to be religious and very straight laced and heavily into censorship etc but now conservatives are much more broad many are more like the Elons and Joe Rogans, rarely religious, pro free speech, but also against woke culture that has often become so ridiculous.
I think there has been a kind of flip in Australia and wide world on things like censorship many have observed this but Joe Rogan recently did with his talk with Trump
He said:
"The rebels are Republicans now, though, like you want to be invisible, you want to be punk rock, you want to like, buck the system? You're a conservative now," Rogan said. "That's how crazy. And then the liberals are now pro-silencing criticism. They're pro-censorship online. … [T]hey come in regulating free speech and now regulating the First Amendment. It's bananas to watch."
Hence why you get complaints from those on the left, and you get people like Guy that want any views or people they dont agree with silenced.
Speaking of trolls, just on time Jelly brain below.
^ “perceptions here get very distorted” (it not the real world)
& opinions aren’t facts haha
…noinfo gerbil, the swellnet eggspurt bauble ;)
;);)
https://m.
freeride76 wrote:Did anyone listen to the Trump/Rogan podcast?
I gave it a go and got about 10 mins in- just so much rambling word salad.
I came away from it thinking Trump was more senile than Biden- completely incapable of expressing a coherent though.
Here is 6 mins of absolute gibberish as an example- could anyone get through 3 hrs of this?
Well that's 5 minutes longer than I listened...talk about talking about yourself
No doubt Elon Muskstick and Joe Bogan had influence in getting people to vote for Donny, and really hope they can make a difference to the US shit show we all know. I'm just glad we don't have to go through watching another "stolen election" stream of BS from drongo Don and the outrage squad.
Anyway I reckon Jimmy sums up the Donny 'democracy in action' election perfectly. Life goes on in the good 'ol Ununited States of A.
freeride76 wrote:Did anyone listen to the Trump/Rogan podcast?
I gave it a go and got about 10 mins in- just so much rambling word salad.
I came away from it thinking Trump was more senile than Biden- completely incapable of expressing a coherent though.
Here is 6 mins of absolute gibberish as an example- could anyone get through 3 hrs of this?
I listened to all of it (while working), honestly it wasn't that exciting as id already listened to quite a few decent length podcast with Trump so id already heard most of the questions and answer's.
I found the one with Vance more interesting (although yet to finish it)
Trump like an poly often doesn't answer a question straight and he jumps around a lot when he talks and talks a lot of shit but he is definitely not senile, there is no comparison to Biden in that way, chalk and cheese, Biden wouldn't have been able to get thorough the first hour and there would be countless gaffs that would go viral.
That video is towards then end and not really a good representation of what the rest of the podcast was like.
flollo wrote:Roadkill wrote:The meltdowns from USA Dems is over the top ridiculous. Crying and carrying on like spoilt children as they didn’t get their outcome.
Trump winning the popular vote pisses them off so much.
The so called celebs are cringy pathetic.
All the talk about Democracy only counts when it’s Democratic democracy.
Snowflakes galore
Especially the celebrities. I reckon that such overwhelming, over the top celeb support for Harris damaged her campaign. I don’t think it works at this day and age. It was perceived as establishment against the rest. Honestly, people are fed up with moral lecturing from these people. Being an actor doesn’t make you a good person. Quite the contrary, a lot of these personalities lead unstable lives; multiple divorces, substance abuses, psychological disorder you name it. Anyone thinking that Cardi B will somehow sway people away from Trump is a joke. Look at her written text, it’s an insult to grammar. Then her teleprompter dies and she doesn’t know what to say. And now she’s outraged and needs to ‘save the democracy’. What a bunch of nonsense.
Good little Ricky Gervais take on insufferable celebrities:
https://www.tiktok.com/@masculineessence_/video/7433119736826924311
- from the noinfo insta chub files hahaha:
(if not cheering on the bibi murder fest, it’s give the don a gobby time)
“ What a time to be alive!
Next stop on the Trump train, da white house.”
^ haha toot toot, all aboard ;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUJVG9vdCB0b290 - mr t (and cult members) can also be proud of his A team ;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUVRGFuYSB3aGl0ZSBzbGFwcyB3aWZl "Trump like an poly often doesn't answer a question straight and he jumps around a lot when he talks and talks a lot of shit but he is definitely not senile"
Not sure what you mean by the first bit but I'd have to take your word he's not senile.
Someone who completely rambles on with gibberish and talks shitt and is incapable of expressing a coherent thought or answering a question is senile to my observation.
I accept that other people listened to Trump though and heard something else.
Hearing that these podcasts were a big reason he got elected just dumbfounds me.
Ok I just listened to the first 20 mins in one sitting and it's quite cool. There's nothing critical here but I see some basic appeal. Rogan is great in asking questions and getting his audience to open up. Basically, big chunk of this was spent on Trump's experience as he became the president in 2016. Like, how he personally felt in those first few days, staying in the White House etc. It was good to hear. Considering that his opponents didn't attend these podcasts we cannot compare apples to apples. And people who listen to these regularly just went with the devil they know. Personally, I fully understand this.
Disclaimer: I listen to Joe Rogan and I am very familiar with his interview style. He always starts slowly, letting audience to get to know the person first and then builds up towards the end.
Totally agree that celebrities get way more credit than they should for 'influencing'.
But for those that point fingers at the Dems on this point (of which I agree!), how about the Republicans?
Hulk Hogan? Dr Phil? Elon Musk? Buzz Aldrin? Mel Gibson?
They're all the same.
Jon Stewart's take on election night - prior to it being called for Trump - is spot on. Yeah, he's a Democrat but I've always found his opinion to be quite balanced.
thermalben wrote:Totally agree that celebrities get way more credit than they should for 'influencing'.
But for those that point fingers at the Dems on this point (of which I agree!), how about the Republicans?
Hulk Hogan? Dr Phil? Elon Musk? Buzz Aldrin? Mel Gibson?
They're all the same.
I fully agree. The problem is that ratio towards Harris is like 90/10. There are not many celebs who endorsed Trump. Mainly a few fringe, low profile ones that noone cares about.
- some insight ;)
… “I discovered, for the first time but not the last, that politicians don’t care too much what things cost. It’s not their money.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
… “The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves. but they can get very excited by those who do. That is why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest, the greatest and the most spectacular.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
… “good publicity is preferable to bad, but from a bottom-line perspective, bad publicity is sometimes better than no publicity at all. Controversy, in short, sells.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
… “Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing the game.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
( ^ spend other people’s money, play to people’s fantasies, create controversy for publicity & play the game $$$ )
- a narcissistic playbook and formula for intentional deceit and ‘success’ ;)
(“That is why a little hyperbole never hurts” haha)
… the golden age of gary is here ;);)
https://m.
freeride76 wrote:I was trying to find some clue as to the Trump appeal and I'm still baffled after listening to him talk unscripted.
Does anyone have any detailed understanding of his economic plans?
I heard no info from him about that either.
An allegory of it is contained within the Project 2025 notes, which I've linked.
My take is run stimulus high by freeing up economy, so should be good for tech, market, oil etc. At the same time decapitation of gov departments (lots of planning done on the how, for eg see Millei's ideals) so I'm expecting it to be chaotic but also way more organised than last time.
A quick squizz over to EU defence bloggers last night revealed an 'Oh Shit' moment... Probably as they realise they'll have to defend themselves.
Bernie did a podcast with Theo Von a couple of months ago. It's great. Bernie's a legend. I wish he went against Trump in 2016. Bernie Sanders is what the US truly needs.
If I'm correct only about 140 million people voted from a population of 345 mill.
If they had compulsory voting the result may have been different as the Republicans are way more passionate and cult like than the democrats.
Saying the Dems had a meltdown hissy fit because they lost is a bit rich after Trumps form last time.
flollo wrote:Bernie did a podcast with Theo Von a couple of months ago. It's great. Bernie's a legend. I wish he went against Trump in 2016. Bernie Sanders is what the US truly needs.
^ yep 100%
old-dog wrote:If I'm correct only about 140 million people voted from a population of 345 mill.
If they had compulsory voting the result may have been different as the Republicans are way more passionate and cult like than the democrats.
Saying the Dems had a meltdown hissy fit because they lost is a bit rich after Trumps form last time.
Turnout was 65% which is pretty normal, similar to record 2020. I agree regarding the compulsory voting, it works much better. I think politician Democrats are handling it well, especially Biden and Harris. But Democrat commentators, media personalities and an army of celebs are having an absolute meltdown.
https://m.
https://m.
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank