The United States(!) of A
wax24 wrote:rj-davey wrote:thermalben wrote:I'd like to learn more about why Americans voted for Trump. Because, I really don't know much at all.
I don't know what it's like to be an American, to live and work there, to bring up kids through school. So any opinions I have really don't mean anything, as I have no lived experience.
On the face of it, US politics seems to be more of a popularity contest (exacerbated by the media, where we only see the 'juicy' soundbites over here), however I know little about either side's policies.
The small snippets I have heard seem implausible (Trump will immediately deport 20 million immigrants, stop the war in Ukraine, add 60% tariffs to Chinese imports etc). But now we get to see whether he will follow through.
I honestly can't recall any of Harris' major policies, which is probably part of the Dem's problems.
I think we all could learn by listening to the other side more often.
I don't see any point in name calling, finger pointing, or the like. Regardless of your own preference, Trump overwhelmingly won the election which means a significant majority of Americans thought he was the best choice to lead the country forward.
I just want to understand why.
I think the key difference was Trump did have clear policies (chiefly around the economy and immigration) which, believe it or not, did actually have some nuance to them if you looked beyond the sensationalist sound-bites most media communicated. One may not agree with them, but they were readily discernable.
From my vantage point the democrat's chief messaging was not policy (as you also noted), but rather "At least we're not that guy."
So maybe the Dem's mistake was thinking it WAS just a popularity contest and not giving voters enough credit.
Pretty interesting to me that Donald Trump is a widely despised character, including amongst his own party. Notwithstanding the popular vote, I expect over 50% of voters would agree he is not a good egg - despicable even. But person and personality aside, he and the GOP stood for things that resonated.
Perhaps more than ever this was a decision by Americans in respect of two known quantities, so the final choice became uniquely simply: Do you want another 4 years of what you just had? Or in light of the last 4 years, would you prefer to give the reigns back to Trump? Putting the two most recent terms of government side by side, voters decided to put back in charge the bloke they fired just 4 years ago.
Democracy for all its foibles continues to surprise and impress me.
Yeah RJ… that’ll do for an explanation til The Explanation gets here. Well done.
Hey Ben…. i have referred to The Silent Majority a few times in this thread.
They are a very broad coalition.
Cut across all demographics.
Trump built a broad coalition through these results.
That tells me that it was, indeed, The Silent Majority that spoke.
Typically, this coalition prizes Prudence.
This batcha concluded that, in light of the economy, and threats around the globe, the Dems were a more clear and present danger than Trump, who may undo the Democracy this nation has employed.
That is quite the statement of desperation.
Not a statement, therefore, of Prudence.
And that is why it is hard to wrap head around.
But, that is The Mood. Clearly.
Wanted to be more concise.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Wax, greatly appreciate your insights from across the tub (thanks RJ too).
I’ve been listenin to Ian Bremer a bit lately and feel like he has an informed, measured take on the American attitude towards geopolitics.
(“Attitude,” in this case, not meaning a defined set of beliefs and principles, but, rather, the orientation and approach in 3-D of a body towards a destination.)
thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
I had a look at the x link and read the guardian article , plenty of debate in the past and currently on the topic . https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/04/fluoridation-water-epa-r... @ burleigh , do you approve or disapprove of fossil fuels in the future ?
tubeshooter wrote:So, what now for Kamala?
Presidential aspirations over?
I can't see her getting the nomination on the next go around.
Similar to Jacinta Price I’d imagine. Served her purpose, back to obscurity.
@info gets jilted again ….
southernraw wrote:AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:- humble pie is served ;)
Gold...
Southernraw, listen to this video carefully.
Tripping mate. Voting for a criminal, with likely sexual assaults in his past as well as potential paedophilia, over anyone else without that sordid background needs to be relentlessly called out and the characters of said questioned and if relevant, stereotyped for what they represent. Fair?
That's all well and good but you're missing that point and fixating on ideals.
Yeah the guy is a grub, a clown, an incompetent fool.
So you've got to seriously consider the question as to why people vote for him.
In my opinion that video gives real world answers.
It's way, way too simplistic to simply say "obviously and clearly the majority of the people in those places...are fucking morons.,"
That shit's not going to help anyone at all.
Look deeper.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause.
What are the causes of people's discontent where they are so fed up/desperate that they will vote for Trump??
@ GuyHahahaha that’s a funny Headline.
Obviously fake news according to Tasty Rump.
Supafreak wrote:thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
I had a look at the x link and read the guardian article , plenty of debate in the past and currently on the topic . https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/04/fluoridation-water-epa-r... @ burleigh , do you approve or disapprove of fossil fuels in the future ?
RFK is not to be taken seriously.
Give the Americans some credit….they voted for a team and trumps team was better.
He won’t be there very long but the diverse team will be.
People of all walks, demographics, races and creeds gave him the numbers so let’s see what his team does before you pass judgement.
It will take a team like his to clean up the sludge in Washington and you all know it is there.
Interesting times and keep your eyes on Vance.
His story is something else and people like him don’t rise to greatness from nowhere for nothing.
Read or watch his story….Hillbilly Elergy.
Thats my 2 bits worth.
Supafreak wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqAny thoughts on fossil fuels burleigh. ?
Very broad/leading question super. Anything more specific you want me to answer?
thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
Of course. Why on earth would you be against this?
AndyM wrote:southernraw wrote:AndyM wrote:andy-mac wrote:Jelly Flater wrote:- humble pie is served ;)
Gold...
Southernraw, listen to this video carefully.
Tripping mate. Voting for a criminal, with likely sexual assaults in his past as well as potential paedophilia, over anyone else without that sordid background needs to be relentlessly called out and the characters of said questioned and if relevant, stereotyped for what they represent. Fair?
That's all well and good but you're missing that point and fixating on ideals.
Yeah the guy is a grub, a clown, an incompetent fool.
So you've got to seriously consider the question as to why people vote for him.
In my opinion that video gives real world answers.
It's way, way too simplistic to simply say "obviously and clearly the majority of the people in those places...are fucking morons.,"
That shit's not going to help anyone at all.
Look deeper.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause.
What are the causes of people's discontent where they are so fed up/desperate that they will vote for Trump??
Banging my head against a wall here AndyM.
Trump is a criminal and who know's what else.
Correct or incorrect?
I would vote for Humphrey B Fucking Bear if he was running against Trump, purely because he's not a criminal (and partly because he's a better shade of orange). And i wouldn't care which party either of them represented.
It should be a moral no brainer for any sane human that understands the fundamental difference between right and wrong.
What was Kamala Harris' crime again?
I could go on about the positives of Harris but what's the point.
I think she's bloody awesome and i hope she sticks to the fight.
I just wanna forget about it all. It's an absolute tragedy.
We've taught the males of the world being domineering, aggressive, petulant, sexually degrading, cheating, stealing and on and on, will take you all the way to the top and make you lauded by the masses.
Fundamental right and wrong should be innate in all of us, and for those that it's not, to hell with them, they deserve all the ridicule they get.....fucken rednecks.
Hey SR…. you are by far one of my fave mates here in SwellNetVille.
I don’t disagree with your sentiments.
But, i’ll invite you (and myself!) to understand that this is where you are now.
You may or may not stay here,
Some of the “deplorables” also, at some point, stood where you stand. And have since moved.
Others,., never.
The point being that we all need to look for ourselves in our “opponents.” Cuz, we’re there.
burleigh wrote:thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
Of course. Why on earth would you be against this?
TBH, I don't know enough about it to be strongly for or against it (though, I am aware that there is strong evidence that we've seen decades of improved dental hygiene, as a result of fluoridation).
But seeing Trump's mandate is "to end the chronic disease epidemic with measurable impacts on a diminishment of chronic disease within two years", I wouldn't have thought that this would be near the top of the list.
I also wonder what the cost would be to implement this program? And whether that money could be better spent - relative to the likely outcomes - on other health programs?
thermalben wrote:wax24 wrote:rj-davey wrote:thermalben wrote:I'd like to learn more about why Americans voted for Trump. Because, I really don't know much at all.
I don't know what it's like to be an American, to live and work there, to bring up kids through school. So any opinions I have really don't mean anything, as I have no lived experience.
On the face of it, US politics seems to be more of a popularity contest (exacerbated by the media, where we only see the 'juicy' soundbites over here), however I know little about either side's policies.
The small snippets I have heard seem implausible (Trump will immediately deport 20 million immigrants, stop the war in Ukraine, add 60% tariffs to Chinese imports etc). But now we get to see whether he will follow through.
I honestly can't recall any of Harris' major policies, which is probably part of the Dem's problems.
I think we all could learn by listening to the other side more often.
I don't see any point in name calling, finger pointing, or the like. Regardless of your own preference, Trump overwhelmingly won the election which means a significant majority of Americans thought he was the best choice to lead the country forward.
I just want to understand why.
I think the key difference was Trump did have clear policies (chiefly around the economy and immigration) which, believe it or not, did actually have some nuance to them if you looked beyond the sensationalist sound-bites most media communicated. One may not agree with them, but they were readily discernable.
From my vantage point the democrat's chief messaging was not policy (as you also noted), but rather "At least we're not that guy."
So maybe the Dem's mistake was thinking it WAS just a popularity contest and not giving voters enough credit.
Pretty interesting to me that Donald Trump is a widely despised character, including amongst his own party. Notwithstanding the popular vote, I expect over 50% of voters would agree he is not a good egg - despicable even. But person and personality aside, he and the GOP stood for things that resonated.
Perhaps more than ever this was a decision by Americans in respect of two known quantities, so the final choice became uniquely simply: Do you want another 4 years of what you just had? Or in light of the last 4 years, would you prefer to give the reigns back to Trump? Putting the two most recent terms of government side by side, voters decided to put back in charge the bloke they fired just 4 years ago.
Democracy for all its foibles continues to surprise and impress me.
Yeah RJ… that’ll do for an explanation til The Explanation gets here. Well done.
Hey Ben…. i have referred to The Silent Majority a few times in this thread.
They are a very broad coalition.
Cut across all demographics.
Trump built a broad coalition through these results.
That tells me that it was, indeed, The Silent Majority that spoke.
Typically, this coalition prizes Prudence.
This batcha concluded that, in light of the economy, and threats around the globe, the Dems were a more clear and present danger than Trump, who may undo the Democracy this nation has employed.
That is quite the statement of desperation.
Not a statement, therefore, of Prudence.
And that is why it is hard to wrap head around.
But, that is The Mood. Clearly.
Wanted to be more concise.
Hope this helps.Thanks Wax, greatly appreciate your insights from across the tub (thanks RJ too).
Thanx Ben. I appreciate you, too.
There’s actually alot to unpack in my response, but i favored economy.
wax24 wrote:Hey SR…. you are by far one of my fave mates here in SwellNetVille.
I don’t disagree with your sentiments.But, i’ll invite you (and myself!) to understand that this is where you are now.
You may or may not stay here,
Some of the “deplorables” also, at some point, stood where you stand. And have since moved.
Others,., never.The point being that we all need to look for ourselves in our “opponents.” Cuz, we’re there.
Good on you Waxy. Always enjoy your posts and have been reading all of yours throughout.
No worries. I've had my hissyfit. Hopefully at the very least it opens people up to maybe looking at it all from a different perspective. It is a heavily male dominated thread/forums and sometimes i think the group think gets the better of alot of posters sometimes. Happy to sacrifice a bit of ego and be a punching bag if it at least gets people to shift their thinking a little bit.
Anyway, i'll slide out as i've got nothing to add to what i've already said.
Hope you're well mate and good luck over there!!
you can fool some of the people some of the time...
‘We Blew It, Joe!’
The Democrats were the party of dishonesty—and people saw right through it.
The question is how the Ivy League technocrats with oodles of cash and all their allies in legacy media, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley managed to bungle this so royally.
How did Kamala Harris lose to a crook and his campaign of “relentless lying,” as CNN recently characterized it?
The answer is: It was not a campaign of relentless lying. Relentless bullshit, yes, as my colleague Eli Lake has noted. Relentless hyperbole, absolutely. But lying? That’s just not how voters saw it.
For the past eight years, the Republican Party has been having an honest conversation about the real things that ail us: inflation; the hollowing out of rural America; the rise of China; the housing crisis; the opioid crisis; the chaos at our southern border; free speech; and the decline of American power.
Has the conversation been frenetic and, at times, weird and wrongheaded? Yes.
More to the point, it is what we cared about. What the average American voter wanted to talk about.
And the Democrats?
The Democrats haven’t been talking about any of these things. The reason that the culture wars are so deeply offensive to so many voters is not that they’re racist or transphobic. It’s that voters want to know why reparations or gender fluidity is more important than rescuing the hundreds of millions of Americans who have seen their way of life dissolve in the face of globalization, automation, and shifting labor markets.
The Democrats preferred to tell a self-congratulatory tale about how we arrived at this juncture: In 2016, the fascists took over the White House; in 2020, the party of democracy and justice took it back; over the past four years, that party has steered us back to normalcy; and, if they didn’t win in 2024, the fascists would come back, and this time it would be worse than ever. This time, the fascists really would lock up their political foes and abolish the Constitution, and it really would be the last election.
Except that there’s very little, if anything, about the Democratic Party that is normal in 2024. It’s not just that the party of the working man is now the party of the Davoisie. It’s that, in the midst of shedding its loyalty to the working and middle classes, the party has transformed itself into a corporatized, single-cell organism. It no longer appears to represent a true coalition of interest groups—the way parties normally do. It is made up of platform surfers building their social media audiences on the backs of the very people they claim to bleed for: marginalized peoples, birthing people, Gazans, whoever.
They didn’t lose because they didn’t spend enough money. They didn’t lose because they failed to trot out enough celebrity influencers. They lost because they were consumed by their own self-flattery, their own sense of self-importance. They should have spent the past eight years learning from the Republicans’ very honest, if flawed, conversation about the plight of America. But they insisted on talking to themselves about the things that made them feel morally superior.
They governed the way they swore their enemies would: shutting down free expression with their war on “disinformation,” politicizing the justice system, and locking down schools. (Yes, that started under Trump, but it was Trump who sought to return us to normal, who was ridiculed for promising that Covid would be over by Easter 2020.)
Worst of all: They did not appreciate the glaring dishonesty at the heart of it all. They seemed to think that Americans wouldn’t mind that they had pretended Joe Biden was “sharp as a tack,” that they actually orchestrated a behind-the-scenes switcheroo, that the party that portrayed itself as the nation’s answer to fascism nominated its standard-bearer without consulting a single voter. They just figured that no one would mind, that most Americans would feel the way they felt—happy that they finally had a viable candidate to challenge Donald Trump.
It was insulting, and it was deeply dishonest.
I’ve spent much of the past year on the road, in towns and cities like Flint and East Palestine and the suburbs of Phoenix and the backwaters of Pennsylvania and the California desert, and there was, everywhere, a deep and pervasive desire for an honest, wide-ranging conversation about what is to be done. How we move forward.
The only way out of this cul-de-sac—the only way for Democrats to win once again—will be for the party to tune out MSNBC and the campus and the progressive identitarians and return, once again, to the same Americans it has made a habit of disparaging.
burleigh wrote:thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
Of course. Why on earth would you be against this?
If you're talking about returning to a "rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science" then you have to accept that fluoridating public water is a positive.
There's no reputable scientific evidence that says it's not a positive.
There's other stuff that he says that sounds good on face value but he's already established himself as someone to be very wary of.
Very graceful + powerful concession speech by Kamala. She should have, however, not conceded. She should've upped her make-up to a glowing orange and started screaming Cheat. Stolen. Fraud. And then dug in till Jan6. And then attack the Capitol, by herself if she must, or maybe with some "woke"/ trans /Mexican murderers/ pregnant women coalition. That should've been the plan.
southernraw wrote:wax24 wrote:Hey SR…. you are by far one of my fave mates here in SwellNetVille.
I don’t disagree with your sentiments.But, i’ll invite you (and myself!) to understand that this is where you are now.
You may or may not stay here,
Some of the “deplorables” also, at some point, stood where you stand. And have since moved.
Others,., never.The point being that we all need to look for ourselves in our “opponents.” Cuz, we’re there.
Good on you Waxy. Always enjoy your posts and have been reading all of yours throughout.
No worries. I've had my hissyfit. Hopefully at the very least it opens people up to maybe looking at it all from a different perspective. It is a heavily male dominated thread/forums and sometimes i think the group think gets the better of alot of posters sometimes. Happy to sacrifice a bit of ego and be a punching bag if it at least gets people to shift their thinking a little bit.
Anyway, i'll slide out as i've got nothing to add to what i've already said.
Hope you're well mate and good luck over there!!
Always wishin ya well, Southern. We’ll circle back soon enough. Take care of those around ya. That’s the BEST way to “stay on beam.” (not that ya will….LOL!)
TimTam wrote:Very graceful + powerful concession speech by Kamala. She should have, however, not conceded. She should've upped her make-up to a glowing orange and started screaming Cheat. Stolen. Fraud. And then dug in till Jan6. And then attack the Capitol, by herself if she must, or maybe with some "woke"/ trans /Mexican murderers/ pregnant women coalition. That should've been the plan.
Disgusting that she didn’t give a speech to all the people that fought for her last night. Left them all alone. Pathetic and not surprising
I’ve got the ABC radio on now. Someone needs to send them a few tissues. It’s actually funny
They can’t figure out why white women didn’t vote for the blubbering jibberish the Camel Harris was spruking.
AndyM wrote:burleigh wrote:thermalben wrote:burleigh wrote:Here is a solid reason why I would have voted for trump:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCC8PgOP7f-/?igsh=dDY3N21qOXh4YzZqYou mean like this?
RFK: "On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water. Fluoride is an industrial waste associated with arthritis, bone fractures, bone cancer, IQ loss, neurodevelopmental disorders, and thyroid disease."
Of course. Why on earth would you be against this?
If you're talking about returning to a "rich tradition of gold-standard, evidence-based science" then you have to accept that fluoridating public water is a positive.
There's no reputable scientific evidence that says it's not a positive.There's other stuff that he says that sounds good on face value but he's already established himself as someone to be very wary of.
Not a question you should ask Kennedy or his supporters.
“gold-standard, evidence-based science" is only acceptable when it suit…when it gets in the way, we’ll…look over there.
Hey Roady…, i had a roommate, about 23 yrs ago.., he was always on and on about fluoride in the muniicipal water systems…. he wound up etching out a career as a wildlife photographer.., really just cuz he fled population…. he wound up specializin in pics of bears…, life’s too effin funny…. ya can’t make this shut up.
Go well, Roady.
News just in! Convicted Felon disqualified from public office as POTUS. Like the thousands of black men who'll never get jobs bc of a conviction on their record, the Orange Man of Zero Integrity finds himself turfed out!!
Burley cries.
Here ya go Waxy.
Jerry had the right idea.
Yep Gen Z males, so much more conservative than anyone thinks
Trump the Colossus:
https://nypost.com/2024/11/06/opinion/trump-the-colossus-comeback-king-o...
"We are in the midst of the greatest political comeback in American history — which follows, by eight years, the greatest political stunt in American history.
"That stunt was Donald Trump’s first win, in 2016. The comeback is his extraordinary performance over the past four years following his defeat in 2020.
"I am not here going to adjudicate Trump’s sins or errors, though I am so mindful of them that I did not vote for him and wrote in someone else.
"No, I am here to represent hundreds of millions of slack-jawed people around the world, gaping in wonderment at the fact that Trump got to this place on Election Night 2024.
"Think of it. This is a man who was impeached (for a second time) two weeks before leaving office in 2021. In the years that followed that second impeachment, he was pursued by a state attorney general, two local prosecutors and a federal special prosecutor.
"He was indicted 91 times in three different criminal courts and found liable in two civil courts. He has been convicted (ludicrously, in my view) of 34 (ludicrous, again) felonies.
"He has had his home raided by federal agents. He has seen his eponymous business effectively shut down by a Manhattan judge.
"He has been the subject of relentless and limitless hostile press coverage that dwarfs any negative characterizations of any other human being of our time.
"And yet here he is, on the cusp of becoming president of the United States for a second go-round.
"His utter refusal to be bent or broken by his enemies and his critics and his determination to redeem himself by recapturing the office he lost has no parallel that I can think of — not in American history, anyway."
Woulda, shoulda, Trumpamania and all the Dems bumbling notwithstanding, maybe worth remembering that the margins in the Blue Wall states are pretty small. PA 1.9, MI 1.5 and WI 0.9. Forty Four electoral votes in total, which, if she’d carried them, would have got Harris to 270.
If Biden gets out early, the Dems have their primary and produce a half decent candidate - presumably Shapiro - then logic says they win the White House.
And if Obama woulda anointed Biden instead of Hillary in 2016, then it’s almost certain that all Trump’s been doing for the last eight years is fronting The Apprentice and playing golf.
wax24 wrote:Hey Roady…, i had a roommate, about 23 yrs ago.., he was always on and on about fluoride in the muniicipal water systems…. he wound up etching out a career as a wildlife photographer.., really just cuz he fled population…. he wound up specializin in pics of bears…, life’s too effin funny…. ya can’t make this shut up.
Go well, Roady.
The roads we travel and the turns life takes us, hey Waxy. What a great career he got.
Be well yourself.
Woke spoilt nepo child that has never done anything worthy of respect
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/you-sicken-us-au...
Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank