New Victoria restrictions

sypkan, thanks for the response.

Interesting that VicLocal can't bring himself to respond to the question, heaven forbid he speaks negatively about his beloved Labor.

Regarding welfare/dole Zen, isn't there a requirement that they must show they are actively looking for/applying for jobs? I get that's probably easy to fake also as you just fling your CV have to a bunch of ads and show your rejection email.

But surely if you're cruising round the country in a van you ain't collecting the dole?

"I'm totally cool with it (dole payments) ...if there's no jobs...

which was the case when indod was doing it..."

That's hilarious. I was in my late teens when that recession hit. I managed to get a part time job and start up a lawn mowing / gardening business while putting myself through uni.
And not once did I fucking sook about people getting the dole because the unemployment lines were long and opportunities were few. Anyone complaining about "handouts" to the unemployed today is a rolled gold arsehole.

that's probably because you were in melbourne! ....vic local.... hahahaha

the gold coast dole office laughed at me when I rocked up on the goldy... "you can't just move where you want... " "you can't just move to a surf beach with high unemployment..." ...you can't.. ...you can't... blah blah blah...

then she put my old address into her little flash new centrelinks computer....

totally changed her tune

"...oh, it appears you can move from your old area..."

it was I who was the smug cunt after that little exchange

sydney, I was working two jobs within two weeks of arriving, after 6 months on the dole at home. gold coast had a job within months...

horses for courses ...you smug cunt....

there's always work and opportunities in some areas, getting a foothold in those areas is the hard part, especially now with skyrocketed house prices, ...because of...

Back in my uni days I was living in a share house on the Goldy. It was pretty loose but good times. My two best mates from school, both rippers were on the dole and I had a part time job bartending. These two blokes somehow managed to save enough cash to spend six months surfing through England, France, Spain and Portugal. They bought an old Bedford van and lived in that, dumped it at the airport on the way home. Fuckers came back, spent another year on the dole and went to Indo. I know they dealt a bit of weed and a bit of goey but they sure as shit didn't do any work. To be honest, as much as they were and still are great mates, I was a little resentful of them at the time.

Happy to say, both are family men, gainfully employed, built lives and still surf.

Yew!

"they must show they are actively looking for/applying for jobs?"
Dx3. a few years ago the Liberal Government changed the requirements requiring dole recipients to apply for a crazy number of jobs (I think it was 40 per week). They were pushing the myth that all dole recipients were bludgers.
The problem was, businesses were absolutely swamped with job applications for jobs that did or didn't exist. finding a suitable worker was massively time consuming for small businesses and the scheme was quickly dropped.
Ideological nonsense at it's worst.

"But surely if you're cruising round the country in a van you ain't collecting the dole?"

not so much now, ...there was a time...

VicLocal - thanks for answering that question about the dole.

Any chance you want to answer my other question that can't be linked to the Libs but is instead a question about Labor?

Sorry Dx3. Been busy. Yes there have been mistakes re hotel quarantine at both state and federal levels. Small mistakes have big consequences. Only one level of government is trying to fix the problems. I'd like to see a few Labor state ministers gone for the mess. Funny how only one side of politics is being held to account. PM on a long weekend again.

There we go, wasn't so hard.

Even though when we compare your venom laced attacks on the Libs to your incredibly subdued response on Labor, maybe it was quite hard for you - particularly considering the level of incompetence were seeing from Labor, you have continued to show you're nothing but a partisan Labor obsessed mug. You even managed to drag the Libs into your response, just couldn't help yourself. Morrison is a fuckwit, so are the cockheads in the vic labor government. They should all be removed from office.

I have no time for rusted on political supporters, so will ignore your rants from now on.

I think my earlier question to Info is important, many of the most politically conservative and vocal people I know are tradies. They all drive new cars, some have boats, a few holiday houses, they love telling you how they hate their taxes being wasted and especially on welfare and in the next sentence they’re laughing about how they buy new boards and bikes etc from cash jobs they’ve done, fuck the tax man mate ..... well, nothing to see here?

"Give a year of national service then get a year on a guaranteed minimum income. "

I'd vote for that, and I reckon people might be surprised at how many would support the first part of that idea.

It may no longer be possible now but I deadset know several tradies who are millionaires, multiple big residential and commercial properties allegedly paid for by working for decades exclusively for cash. From the little I know Howard’s GST and it’s associated business reporting paperwork much harder to do.

Dx3. If you haven't noticed, there's an unprecedented pandemic happening. All governments are making mistakes.
I happy to cut them some slack if there is a genuine attempt to fix mistakes. What I'm not prepared to cop is politicians making mistakes and covering them up. The covidsafe app being the classic example of cunts putting their political careers above Australian lives. I'm also not prepared to cop politicians acting corruptly hoping Covid 19 gives them some cover. And I'm also not prepared to cop politicians undermine social distancing rules for political gains. Hence my contempt for the LNP at a federal and Vic level. The LNP in Queensland have been scumbags too.

"I'd vote for that, and I reckon people might be surprised at how many would support the first part of that idea."

totally, ...evidence of the changing face of australia... not neccesarily all bad, ...it seems some have just missed the memo... totally missed it

"...They all drive new cars, some have boats, a few holiday houses, they love telling you how they hate their taxes being wasted and especially on welfare..."

miserable fuckers, this particular breed

"...and in the next sentence they’re laughing about how they buy new boards and bikes etc from cash jobs they’ve done, fuck the tax man mate ..... well, nothing to see here?""

but do you really begrudge them of a cashy here and there?

this isn't aimed at you personally guysmiley, but geez oz politics has become a game of miserableness and purity - all round

"I happy to cut them some slack if there is a genuine attempt to fix mistakes. What I'm not prepared to cop is politicians making mistakes and covering them up. "

HAHAHAHAHAHA Oh you genuinely do make me laugh. Did you not miss the entire premise of my initial question to you about how this inquiry into hotel mgmt has been handled?

Even just now it's clearly being reported that Mikakos lied yesterday about not knowing about private security in the hotels in May. She fronted a bloody press conference in March where this was spoken about, then was in a caucus meeting in April where again it was presented.
Pakula, the minister for jobs who's fucking department signed the contracts, claims he didn't know they were using private security until he saw it in the media. These people are on $200k+ a year with zero pay impact from Covid, in fact they've given themselves pay rises, and they are lying through their teeth. As you said, we're in the middle of a pandemic, you reckon they could ask a few questions about what their departments are doing to help with the crisis? I genuinely do not know what they are doing if they weren't aware of these things.

Yes, the Libs/Feds are cooked, but pull your labor coated finger out of your ass and see what a partisan mug you are.

ok viclocal, tell me what you think of vic labor going the hyper-neoliberal privatised model to deal with the pandemic?

do you not think a labor government should at least try to use the state's apparatus at their fingertips? (trained, competent, authorative, and underutilised....) rather than giving money to dodgy mates and private contractors to do a sub standard job?

If a labor government's inclination in a pandemic, is to go with the modern scourge that is governments privatising and relinquishing any responsibilty through dodgy contracts to their mates, ...well, ...then, there is literally no 'labour party' left in australia...

none, zero, zilch, habis...

As usual, TBB on the case and on the money!

Dx3. You do realise the state govts were given 24 hours notice to introduce mandatory hotel quarantine before scumo and dutto started waving the planes in?

VicLocal. Read my comments & questions again. Have I stated I have issue with them choosing private security? No. Sure it was a fuck-up in hindsight, and after the quick set-up was required it should have been assessed far earlier than it was (concerns were raised very early mind you but ignored by Vic Labor).

Am I asking are they lying at the enquiry which demonstrates, to borrow your very own words above "classic example of cunts putting their political careers above Australian lives". Yes, I am asking that.

But keep going with bringing it back to the feds to deflect the questions being asked if that's what makes you happy.

"Give a year of national service then get a year on a guaranteed minimum income. "
Ha ha ha it doesn't take long for the authoritarian streak to emerge. National service is a spectacularly b ad idea. If you are thinking of it in terms of the military........they hate the idea. They do not want to have to manage hoards of poorly motivated recruits with no long term commitment to the role. If you are thinking public service in environmental or other work much more will be achieved by regional or youth employment schemes which pay a living wage and provide training in work that might actually be available. As for the idea of giving them a year off afterwards on the dole, what the fuck does that achieve except building their skill in doing fuck all. So do we have such a critical national shortage of lazy bastards that we need to train up some more?

I love this place, it cracks me up there's always some ridiculous ill considered brain spasm popping up.

National service followed by a year on the dole, whee hoo kiddies, what next? A year digging ditches and filling them in again followed fully funded year playing fortnite?

"Give a year of national service then get a year on a guaranteed minimum income. "
Stop stealing lines off 80 year old blokes who ring into talkback on 2GB.

"Even just now it's clearly being reported that Mikakos lied yesterday about not knowing about private security in the hotels in May. She fronted a bloody press conference in March where this was spoken about, then was in a caucus meeting in April where again it was presented.
Pakula, the minister for jobs who's fucking department signed the contracts, claims he didn't know they were using private security until he saw it in the media. These people are on $200k+ a year "

not to mention it being said in the inquiry that certain people raised obvious issues about the hotel quarrantine in the first week

dan andrews and co...

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10159047082717848&id=781442847&set..."281070686354651"%3A%7B"page_id"%3A281070686354651%2C"page_id_type"%3A"group"%2C"actor_id"%3A100007112133570%2C"dm"%3A%7B"isShare"%3A1%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A321931182447765%7D%2C"psn"%3A"EntGroupMallPostCreationStory"%2C"post_context"%3A%7B"object_fbtype"%3A657%2C"publish_time"%3A1600946757%2C"story_name"%3A"EntGroupMallPostCreationStory"%2C"story_fbid"%3A%5B358868331908219%5D%7D%2C"role"%3A1%2C"sl"%3A6%7D%2C"290981905542693"%3A%7B"page_id"%3A290981905542693%2C"page_id_type"%3A"group"%2C"actor_id"%3A100007112133570%2C"attached_story"%3A%7B"page_id"%3A290981905542693%2C"page_id_type"%3A"group"%2C"actor_id"%3A781442847%2C"dm"%3A%7B"isShare"%3A0%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A0%7D%2C"psn"%3A"EntGroupMallPostCreationStory"%2C"post_context"%3A%7B"object_fbtype"%3A657%2C"publish_time"%3A1600943594%2C"story_name"%3A"EntGroupMallPostCreationStory"%2C"story_fbid"%3A%5B321931182447765%5D%7D%2C"role"%3A1%2C"sl"%3A6%7D%2C"dm"%3A%7B"isShare"%3A0%2C"originalPostOwnerID"%3A0%7D%2C"psn"%3A"EntGroupMallPostCreationStory"%2C"role"%3A1%2C"sl"%3A6%7D%7D&__tn__=EHH-R

"but do you really begrudge them of a cashy here and there?"

No not at all, but I don't like the double standard when they go so hard on people on welfare and as VL correctly says the majority of whom would be doing it tough and would prefer to work.

Hi Blowfly, thanks for your respectful and well-considered comments.

Vic do you really think an 80 year old Alan Jones disciple would go for a guaranteed minimum income? Other end of the spectrum big fella.

AndyM, the Alan Jones fan club is a cult lead by a bullshit artist. If you want rational debate, you don't go to 2GB. Their stock and trade is breeding resentment, pointing the finger at Labor, and pretending the LNP will make everything hunky dory for those on "struggle street".

By the way, I would consider Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden to be very un-authoritarian Blowfly.

Back to the topic of Vic lockdown. Last night we witnessed (or didn't witness depending on your point of view) one of the great astro-turf movement failures in history.
Some plonker with lots of cash and backing, tried to start a #pandan movement. He wanted people to protest about the curfew by banging their pots and pans together at 9pm. This bloke paid for an ad on The bachelor and was on Peta Credlin's show on Sky News. That's a lot of coverage.
Victorians responded (or didn't respond depending on your point of view) by sitting on the couch. The bonus was, no sleeping children were woken up, and dogs didn't freak out about the noise (or lack there of depending on your point of view).
Reminds me of Alan Jones's "convoy of no consequence".

Love how you brought us back on topic by changing direction of the conversation to avoid the continual rank hypocrisy of your comments being highlighted VL - nice work.

"shared responsibility"

their tact and backroom spin doctor briefings are so fucking obvious its just bloody embarrassing now

insulting

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/coronavirus-australi...

Not sure what you’re talking about Vic.

"I would consider Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Sweden to be very un-authoritarian"

Any government which imposes compulsory military service without an immediate threat is, by definition, authoritarian. Now are you going to defend the free year on the dole too? Thought not. But keep 'em coming. I'll look in again around happy hour for a laugh.

"...Now are you going to defend the free year on the dole too? Thought not. But keep 'em coming. I'll look in again around happy hour for a laugh."

given australia's economic and unemployment outlook for the next few years, it's a bloody good idea. not only would it address immediate problems, but it would move young people to the regions where quite often there is work available in certain places and fields of employment, and it would engage and educate them in the process, rather than have them moping around suburbs...

but nah, much smarter to push the labor lines that you do, ....of giving 100 000s of overseas students and backpackers loads of free cash, indebting australian generations to come, increaaing unemployment, and showing no vision whatsoever to deal with the mess we're currently in, and will be for years...

all this wisdom, vision, and astute planning comes from labor, despite these people coming to oz on a condition of having financial independence

yeh much smarter

labor, ...'winning'...

again...

You don't seem to understand the meaning of authoritarian Blowfly, you're talking emotive nonsense as usual.

Not to mention I wouldn't be in favour of any kind of military service anyway.

"the gold coast dole office laughed at me when I rocked up on the goldy... "you can't just move where you want... " "you can't just move to a surf beach with high unemployment..." ...you can't.. ...you can't... blah blah blah...

then she put my old address into her little flash new centrelinks computer....

totally changed her tune

"...oh, it appears you can move from your old area..."

it was I who was the smug cunt after that little exchange"

That is exactly what happened to me, i went into the dole office at Palm beach saying id moved up from Victoria and they lady said pretty much the same thing, that basically there was no chance because the unemployment rate was so high on the Gold Coast, then she punched in my details and quickly changed her tune as coastal Vic unemployment rate was much worst.

BTW. not aimed at you Sypkan but when i said handouts i wasn't really thinking the dole so much, was just thinking in general there is so much middle class type handouts perks etc the system is super generous, but there really is a sense of entitlement among people these days everyone expects something and is never happy with what they are given, its never a thank you but more i deserve more type attitude.

Sweet Jeezus...Serenity now...etc etc

Some of the rank hypocrisy and general imbecility on here is making my hair fall out!

Anyway, time to have a good hard look at this 'utopian' idea...for real this time?

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parlia...(UBI,the%20fringes%20of%20policy%20debate.

"Basic universal income" is the most ridiculous idea ever.

Let's give everyone enough money to live off, for a start where is all this money going to come from?

Id vote for it though, id just rent my house out and sit over in Indo living like a king from the basic income. (although really id still get bored and need to work, so i think id do a few months work back in OZ anyway)

Thats the problem humans need ambition and drive, but handouts are like drugs fine in moderation every now and then, but once they become regular and people dependent on them they suck the life and soul from you.

Maybe a universal income system set out over all the current payments might work to some degree, but even then it would be problematic.

Because some people have greater needs depending on where they live or depending on age or circumstances for example someone with medical conditions etc

When you start adding in all these extra payment special assistance etc you basically just end up recreating the system already there.

Also if you give to much money to people seeking work you take away the incentive to look for work (this effect has even been apparently seen of late with increases in payments, and i dont doubt its true)

It's pipe dream stuff.

Poor old Vic Local has finally been caught out in his rampant hypocrisy, left with no response to give as his holier than thou Labor party continues to get found out for being just corrupt as the Libs. Until you realise VL that all politicians on both sides are corrupt, self-interested fuckwits, you're just pissing in the wind.

“You don't seem to understand the meaning of authoritarian Blowfly, you're talking emotive nonsense as usual.”

adjective: authoritarian
favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
Uuum! so Mr Pandy in your universe forcing people to do a year in the military does not cause a loss of personal freedom? How strange.
Still nothing on the free year on the dole then? Never mind it will all be forgotten tomorrow. There will be a whole barrel of fresh bullshit from you and slyppery and the boys.

Conservative loudmouth LNP voter gets his start in life scamming the taxpayer on the dole. Even goes overseas on a surfing holiday while scamming the taxpayer on the dole. Freely admits to it in online forum.
Mmmmmm.

Blowfly, we're talking about a theoretical government policy so we are looking at governments yeah?

And so a basic definition is "authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms".

Again, in a university textbook on political ideologies (https://andrewheywood.jimdofree.com), "[authoritarianism] is concerned with the oppression of opposition and political liberty" etc etc.

On page 74 if you're interested, which of course you're not.

And another.

The political scientist Juan Linz defined authoritarianism as possessing four qualities:

- Limited political pluralism, realized with constraints on the legislature, political parties and interest groups.
- Political legitimacy based upon appeals to emotion and identification of the regime as a necessary evil to combat "easily recognizable societal problems, such as underdevelopment or insurgency".
- Minimal political mobilization and suppression of anti-regime activities.
- Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting, which extends the power of the executive.

So no, "[a]ny government which imposes compulsory military service" is not, as you've claimed, by definition authoritarian.

Looking at some of your history including your patented Appeals To Emotion ™, you've got some things in common with authoritarianism though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the original post based on the national service being a voluntary deal?

Doesn't sound too authoritarian to me. Almost like a gap year.

Sorry adam ive technically I've never voted for LNP, ive never put them first on a federal election ballot.

BTW. having you considered being more constructive in your comments and bringing something to the table instead of being so negative, aggressive & attacking???

It's so typical of the left always preaching tolerance, diversity, peace, freedom, but are always the ones attacking any views that don't align with theirs and always the aggressive ones.

Blowie, try reading something for a change, this is a start.

Far from authoritarian Zen, but that won't stop the angry old bed-wetter.

Authoritarian - adjective (defined above) applied to those commentators who seem to believe that a year in the army is just what young blokes these days need.

Authoritarianism - a form of government blah blah blah

Have you put your incontinence pads on yet Andy? You know what happened the other day when you forgot......one beer and whoops!

So Dx3, what can we get from this example of your deep political sophistication and clear thinking on the subject of corruption.
"all politicians on both sized are corrupt, self-interested fuckwits"

Not exactly an original thought is it? No it's more like the traditional "can't be arsed actually looking at the evidence or thinking about it, so I'll just throw out some wild generalisation that all the others who are similarly arsed, and equally lazy, will agree with." Sounds almost profound after the third or fourth schooner but doesn't really fly amongst the (relatively) sober.

Haha haha!
Just cop it big fella, you were talking emotive shit as per usual and you got called out and proven wrong.

And I love what you did with the incontinence pad thing, you’re a fucking psychological genius.