COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster

Craig's picture
Craig started the topic in Wednesday, 18 Mar 2020 at 7:44pm

I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..

There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:39pm

supafreak I was referring to this link at the bottom of the eureka link you provided. (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/_layouts/15/oaks.journals/...)
So yeh I can find my way around the internet and even better, I can tell real science from complete bullshit.

"Merck has a reason". Well yes, but for all we know so do you. Somebody is making money out of this ivermectin bullshit and the way you won't let go sounds like that could be your motive. You could be you stuck with a load you bought early in the pandemic and are still trying to unload. Cynicism cuts both ways!

thermalben's picture
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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:41pm

C'mon Superfreak, are you really suggesting that Merck - a company who have freely donated Ivermectin across the planet over the last 34 years - have conspired to NOT recommend it for Covid-19 treatment, because.... they.... never did any trials? And instead just whipped up a press release?

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:42pm

I’ve got no qualifications in science either malben , I’ve asked Professor Doherty’s opinion on articles by both Clancy and Borody to which he has declined to answer . I respect Professor Doherty opinion that’s why I asked him . He has a past history to Merck , nothing wrong with that .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:44pm
thermalben wrote:

C'mon Superfreak, are you really suggesting that Merck - a company who have freely donated Ivermectin across the planet over the last 34 years - have conspired to NOT recommend it for Covid-19 treatment, because.... they.... never did any trials? And instead just whipped up a press release?

Show me the trials malben , they don’t exist, if I’m wrong I will happily apologise .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:51pm

@malben , do you find it strange after freely giving away over 1 billion doses of ivermectin to African nations , that merck now consider ivermectin to be “ dangerous “ . It’s proven to be one of the safest drugs going in medicine , essential medicines that have won the nobel prize in medicine for the doctors who discovered it aren’t usually “ dangerous “ and given to children and pregnant women .

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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:52pm

I have no idea if they ran trials or not.

What's the conspiracy theory then, if they didn't run trials?

(oh fuck, here we go down another rabbit hole).

I note that in May 2020 - seventeen months ago - Science.org ran a story:

"Merck, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, has been conspicuously absent from the race to develop COVID-19 vaccines and drugs. No longer. The company this morning announced it has cut deals to develop and manufacture two different COVID-19 vaccines and a much-discussed experimental antiviral compound that is already in early clinical trials."

https://www.science.org/content/article/merck-one-big-pharma-s-biggest-p...

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:54pm

"Show me the trials malben"
Oh FFS supafreak, there's been multiple trials of Ivermectin all around the globe. It's been researched to death. Merck has looked at the results, the methodology, the sample sizes, and the credibility of the trials (both for and against) and said "Don't use Ivermectin for covid".
This is how medical research works you complete burk.
You didn't get the result you so desperately wanted, so the only place left for you to go is some grand conspiracy about pharmaceutical companies and governments deliberately denying patients a cheap and effective drug.
I said it before and I will say it again, supafreak, your fixation with pushing Ivermectin is next level pathetic.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:56pm
blindboy wrote:

supafreak I was referring to this link at the bottom of the eureka link you provided. (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/_layouts/15/oaks.journals/...)
So yeh I can find my way around the internet and even better, I can tell real science from complete bullshit.

"Merck has a reason". Well yes, but for all we know so do you. Somebody is making money out of this ivermectin bullshit and the way you won't let go sounds like that could be your motive. You could be you stuck with a load you bought early in the pandemic and are still trying to unload. Cynicism cuts both ways!

@ blindboy , next step , can you see search on that page ? Put in ivermectin , study is there

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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 1:59pm

And Superfreak, irrespective of all of that, why do you care so much about this particular drug, on this particular topic?

There are hundreds of misdemeanours occurring each and every day (across all facets of life) that are likely to exert a much greater influence on the wellbeing of our society than Merck choosing to not recommend Ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment.

Why the intense focus on this issue?

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sypkan Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:16pm

 "...To not even entertain the idea that a treatment was possible to me is unbelievable . Australian innovation ignored again, for what reason I have no idea . To not even try Borody’s triple therapy on the aged when they were dying by the hundreds in Victoria needs investigating .What was the reason for that ? They give ivermectin in aged care to treat scabies yet refused to do a 5 day treatment instead doing nothing . Some were simply locked in their rooms until so sick they were hospitalised then died "

it does seem ridiculous, i dare say they had protocols to follow, which prevented it from happening, but considering the drug was already used in aged care, it really beggars belief why it wasn't at least tried under our 'emergency conditions', ...but hey this is oz... the bureauratic capital of stifle...

"...Doing nothing was the protocol for early treatment in the western world ."

this is where the real scandal lays... it was decided way early on in the pandemic on doing nothing until people were severely sick. whether it's ivermectin that is effective, or the early intervention... this sooooo doesn't add up... by any messure, and just stinks of backroom deals... I'm sure it would be explaind away as a measure to not overwhelm the health system. but I am also absolutely sure it ties in with the governments / companies / media wide pact to spruik vaccines as the one and only way out of this pandemic

which ain't a conspiracy... it's just a combination of the pervasive ppp's thinking that has given lobbyists way too much power and influence in contemporary decision making, ...and the decades long war gaming of some one eyed spectrummed special interests billionaires...

and also possibly a bit of donald trump... if he's your preferred villian...

"...If people want to say it’s dangerous then why is it given by the US government to refugee immigrants into the US ?"

it's a damn good question, a glaring one. one that's been shut down media wide... again...

"...And 20 associated known deaths in 4 billion doses doesn’t seem highly dangerous. I’m honed in because I know bullshit when I see it "

because it's not highly dangerous, it's been used safely for decades...

the fact there has been such a massive media wide misinformation campaign, and the fact they needed to paint it as 'horse paste', amongst other things... to sway public opinion raises all sorts of alarm bells, and just undermines any messaging for 'the public good' the advocates claim to be pushing...

the fact cnn and the usual media suspects have gone so unhinged and hard down this road, just shows them as the hubris filled deranged self important fools they are

there was a rational way to present their case...

whether ivermectin is a wonder cure, a marginal help, or a placebo wrapped up in a suite of early treatment...

I smell bullshit, and I smell a rat, a heap of rats.... bullshit which is way way more dangerous than if every person on the planet dropped an I pill tomorrow...

so good onya supafreak, whether you get vindicated or not, the unhinged responses by some on here just prove you are at least asking the right questions

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:02pm

So vic local Merck hasn’t done its own trials ? Hmmmmmmmmmm Yeah you’re right , I now fully will follow big pharma and governments and never again will I question their motives. After all they have always been honest and open in the past and have never failed the people . I’m terribly sorry vic local , please forgive me for not listening to you in the past . You are definitely the smartest guy on SN . Remember vic I’m the village idiot after all .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:03pm

E559-FF10-BF1-B-47-CC-ABF1-78-D45-B778018

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Blowin Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:04pm
Supafreak wrote:

So vic local Merck hasn’t done its own trials ? Hmmmmmmmmmm Yeah you’re right , I now fully will follow big pharma and governments and never again will I question their motives. After all they have always been honest and open in the past and have never failed the people . I’m terribly sorry vic local , please forgive me for not listening to you in the past . You are definitely the smartest guy on SN . Remember vic I’m the village idiot after all .

Vic Local doesn’t care a jot either way about ivermectin. He just wants to abuse someone. It’s an excuse. Forget him.

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:10pm

The worst thing about the Ivermectin conspiracy theorists is people don't get vaccinated because they think popping a couple of Ivermectin pills will solve their problem when they get covid..
Now if village idiots want to remove themselves from the gene pool by taking snake oil medication should we stop them? Given they will compromise the hospital system, spread covid and put other people at risk, in this case I say "yes". Anyone still pushing Ivermectin at this stage of the pandemic is a complete and utter moron. Yes I'm talking about you supafreak.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:13pm
thermalben wrote:

And Superfreak, irrespective of all of that, why do you care so much about this particular drug, on this particular topic?

There are hundreds of misdemeanours occurring each and every day (across all facets of life) that are likely to exert a much greater influence on the wellbeing of our society than Merck choosing to not recommend Ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment.

Why the intense focus on this issue?

@malben , it’s simple , look at what’s happened to Australia in the last 2 years . If this could have been prevented as in lockdowns, business loss , mental health etc then exploring a early treatment was in my opinion worth pursuing.

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:15pm

Oh and supafreak, sneering at people who have gone to university is also pathetic. You have no medical training at all, but you think you know more than university educated experts who do peer reviewed trails and abide by strict academic rules and protocols.
Fuck me, you were bagging someone out earlier for not doing research on the internet. Christ almighty, if anyone represents the era of the anti-elite idiot, it's you.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:16pm

There you go again vic local , labeling people and how they would respond . The scientists and doctors who treat patients in icu for covid also advocate for vaccines. You got sucked in to the narrative that if you’re pro ivermectin your anti - vax .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:19pm
Vic Local wrote:

Oh and supafreak, sneering at people who have gone to university is also pathetic. You have no medical training at all, but you think you know more than university educated experts who do peer reviewed trails and abide by strict academic rules and protocols.
Fuck me, you were bagging someone out earlier for not doing research on the internet. Christ almighty, if anyone represents the era of the anti-elite idiot, it's you.

And you bag Borody and Clancy , who have both done more for medicine that anyone from the TGA or that are in Australian government health agencies.

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sypkan Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:22pm

"Oh and supafreak, sneering at people who have gone to university is also pathetic. You have no medical training at all, but you think you know more than university educated experts who do peer reviewed trails and abide by strict academic rules and protocols.
Fuck me, you were bagging someone out earlier for not doing research on the internet. Christ almighty, if anyone represents the era of the anti-elite idiot, it's you."

not when he's referring to people like you, who flogged his unversity credentials as some sort of authority...

only to prove you have no capacity for objective thought at all

it's a bit of a running theme...

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:33pm

More Unsubtatiated Disinformation (MUD)

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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:36pm
Supafreak wrote:
thermalben wrote:

And Superfreak, irrespective of all of that, why do you care so much about this particular drug, on this particular topic?

There are hundreds of misdemeanours occurring each and every day (across all facets of life) that are likely to exert a much greater influence on the wellbeing of our society than Merck choosing to not recommend Ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment.

Why the intense focus on this issue?

@malben , it’s simple , look at what’s happened to Australia in the last 2 years . If this could have been prevented as in lockdowns, business loss , mental health etc then exploring a early treatment was in my opinion worth pursuing.

Bit of a long bow to suggest the last two years of Covid-19 misery could have been alleviated by Merck recommending that their own existing drug could be used for treatment, just so that something, something, conspiracy, something.

I mean, in April 2020 Clive Palmer purchased 32,900,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 treatment, which turned out to be an obvious waste of time. But no-one's patting him on the back to say 'oh well, good on ya for giving it a go, cobber' (especially since in June of this year he "sent letters to households across Australia urging against vaccination for Covid-19").

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:39pm

"And you bag Borody and Clancy , who have both done more for medicine that anyone from the TGA or that are in Australian government health agencies."
Really supafreak? I have no idea who these people are and certainly haven't written about them. But carry on making up stuff that doesn't fucking exist so you can bag me.
"not when he's referring to people like you, who flogged his unversity (sic) credentials as some sort of authority..." Really sypkan? Where exactly have I done that?
One thing my university education taught me is to know your limitations and divert to experts when you have no expertise in a particular field. I also do understand how proper research works.
You two idiots are classic Dunning Kruger poster children. You have zero training in the medical field, have 100% confidence in your opinions. Confidence based in ignorance. Your idea of research isn't clinical trials or lab tests. It's going on google to find an opinion that supports your ignorant position.
Fuck me, sneering at university educated people is pathetic. Do you idiots do your own electrical work too?

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:44pm

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing. It shouldn't be funny......but it is. I mean you couldn't write a better satire of Internet Induced Idiocy if you tried. Keep it coming a good laugh can be hard to find. Round and round the garden......

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:44pm

@malben , sorry I’m not following you here . What’s Merck got to do with Australian use of early treatment when Professor Thomas Borody recommended it in August 2020 . And why is everything always a conspiracy ? What happened to good old incompetence that our governments are famous for ? Fck me 30 million on a piece of land worth 3 but can’t spend 20 million on a trial during a pandemic.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:49pm
blindboy wrote:

I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing. It shouldn't be funny......but it is. I mean you couldn't write a better satire of Internet Induced Idiocy if you tried. Keep it coming a good laugh can be hard to find. Round and round the garden......

Did you manage to find the link ? https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review... Laughter is definitely the best medicine blindboy

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:53pm
Vic Local wrote:

"And you bag Borody and Clancy , who have both done more for medicine that anyone from the TGA or that are in Australian government health agencies."
Really supafreak? I have no idea who these people are and certainly haven't written about them. But carry on making up stuff that doesn't fucking exist so you can bag me.
"not when he's referring to people like you, who flogged his unversity (sic) credentials as some sort of authority..." Really sypkan? Where exactly have I done that?
One thing my university education taught me is to know your limitations and divert to experts when you have no expertise in a particular field. I also do understand how proper research works.
You two idiots are classic Dunning Kruger poster children. You have zero training in the medical field, have 100% confidence in your opinions. Confidence based in ignorance. Your idea of research isn't clinical trials or lab tests. It's going on google to find an opinion that supports your ignorant position.
Fuck me, sneering at university educated people is pathetic. Do you idiots do your own electrical work too?

So you have no idea who Professor Thomas Borody is or Professor Robert Clancy , yet you have commented on them before. Hmmmmmmm you even said Clancy was too old at 79 lol

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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:55pm
Supafreak wrote:

@malben , sorry I’m not following you here . What’s Merck got to do with Australian use of early treatment when Professor Thomas Borody recommended it in August 2020 . And why is everything always a conspiracy ? What happened to good old incompetence that our governments are famous for ? Fck me 30 million on a piece of land worth 3 but can’t spend 20 million on a trial during a pandemic.

Look, I have no experience in medicine, clinical trials, or government regulation. But, I suspect that it takes a lot more than one Professor's recommendation before approval is given.

I could spend my Sunday afternoon finding evidence of what the thinking was back in the middle of 2020 (and why those decisions might have been made), however here's an article from ABC Fact Check, in September 2021, some 13 months after you claim Prof. Thomas Borody recommended the use of Ivermectin.

Seems there wasn't enough evidence that Ivermectin worked well, and that some of the studies cited as proof were found to be fraudulent.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-08/reality-check-ivermectin-covid19/...

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Mcface Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:58pm

You seem like a good bloke supafreak, and enjoy your surfing related posts, but I agree with Ben and co here. Ivermectin is not the way out mate and the links from Clancy et al are filled with red herrings tenuously strewn together, which when put into context, don't add up to all that much.

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thermalben Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:59pm

Oh and BTW, yep our government is very incompetent.. don't get me started.

Just unsure why you're not commenting on the thousand of other issues with such vigour.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 2:59pm

Saw this headline on Utube breaking news . " Too fast , too soon " .

I am not informed enough about the consequences so don't have a strong opinion . I do know that no ones know exact the right time .

So it boils down to Too fast , too soon or too slow , too late .

As we will have to learn to live with covid and I am biased due to the length of lockdowns in Melb I like the acting fast approach in NSW .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:04pm
Mcface wrote:

You seem like a good bloke supafreak, and enjoy your surfing related posts, but I agree with Ben and co here. Ivermectin is not the way out mate and the links from Clancy et al are filled with red herrings tenuously strewn together, which when put into context, don't add up to all that much.

Ivermectin isn’t the way out Mcface , its a tool along with vaccines in helping to end the pandemic. Plenty of countries getting good results . Vaccines aren’t 100% effective and neither is ivermectin. Its a shit pandemic that needs to be attacked on all fronts. Doctors that treat patients as out patients and in icu wards have no reason to lie about what works .

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:08pm

MUD

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:08pm

Wow supafreak you got one thing correct. I did make a comment on Clancy a while back. Put that down to poor memory.
Here'a a little statement you might like to read on Clancy.
"Robert Clancy is not speaking on behalf of the University of Newcastle when offering his opinion on this issue. The University has not funded his research since 2009 and he retired in 2013. The University does not consider Robert Clancy a subject matter expert on COVID-19."
Just because this bloke is a Sky News After Dark and Craig Kelly hero doesn't mean he's right.
You bag Merck for not doing any trails, yet hold up a retired professor who has been disowned by his ex-university as a hero, and Clancy hasn't done any fucking trails either.
Have you worked out how stupid you look yet?

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:12pm
thermalben wrote:

Oh and BTW, yep our government is very incompetent.. don't get me started.

Just unsure why you're not commenting on the thousand of other issues with such vigour.

what like malben , world hunger ? Climate change , sex trafficking ? It’s a long list . Ive put up world hunger live meters three times before on covid threads and said this is a way bigger problem . Not one reply, but mention ivermectin and people lose their shit .

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:18pm
Vic Local wrote:

Wow supafreak you got one thing correct. I did make a comment on Clancy a while back. Put that down to poor memory.
Here'a a little statement you might like to read on Clancy.
"Robert Clancy is not speaking on behalf of the University of Newcastle when offering his opinion on this issue. The University has not funded his research since 2009 and he retired in 2013. The University does not consider Robert Clancy a subject matter expert on COVID-19."
Just because this bloke is a Sky News After Dark and Craig Kelly hero doesn't mean he's right.
You bag Merck for not doing any trails, yet hold up a retired professor who has been disowned by his ex-university as a hero, and Clancy hasn't done any fucking trails either.
Have you worked out how stupid you look yet?

When did I say he was speaking on behalf of Newcastle university ? You left out he has also been on ABC talkback radio several times. He has his name on several ivermectin trial papers , universities need to distance themselves for obvious reasons.Why don’t you email him and give him a bit of abuse . I’m off now vic local …. gotta renew my brick

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 3:20pm

Well there's a happy outcome.

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Vic Local Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:02pm

"He (Professor Clancy) has his name on several ivermectin trial papers"
haaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa.
That of course doesn't mean he did any trials, it just means his previous research or comments have been cited by other academics (and most likely appear as a footnote or in the bibliography).
You clearly don't understand how academic papers work mate.
For shits and giggles, I just searched my name to see how many times I've been cited in academic texts, research papers etc. Fucking shit loads, and it was all based on one post graduate year. Academics read articles that I wrote, and quoted me in their papers. That doesn't mean I had anything to do with their research.
Fair dinkum Supafreak, you have no idea how fucking ignorant you are. Like I said, a Dunning Kroger poster child. Confidence through ignorance.

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saltyone Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:37pm

Vaccine “race “ most often than not won by who has the most $$ to invest at start and then maintain ongoing $$ or funding to get across the finish line before anyone else . I would say cov treatment the same ..when there are billions of dollars at stake some people will do whatever it takes ..and no it’s not always honourable and first in doesn’t always mean best dressed.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:43pm

Yes its a preprint and hasn’t been peer reviewed and yes vic local will continue to rubbish anyone and everyone. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.06.21259924v1 and the latest from Borody again that no doubt vic local will rubbish . It’s ok I’ve got a shiny new brick now . Sydney-based Professor Thomas Borody does not support this view. He does, however, believe ivermectin-combination therapy can change the course of this pandemic. He and a group of other doctors have treated over 500 COVID-19 patients in Australia with a triple therapy consisting of ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc – without any deaths. The TGA ruling means they can no longer prescribe this combination. They are likely to substitute another off-patent drug, fluvoxamine, developed originally as an antidepressant.
“You have to do things in a process that is acceptable. You have to do it right,” says Borody. The group plans to seek a provisional application from the TGA for the ivermectin triple therapy using a literature-based submission with supportive evidence from patients treated. “We are doing it properly.”
He is confident the ivermectin triple therapy will be approved. In the 1980s, Borody discovered a drug cocktail that stopped over 900 people dying yearly from peptic ulcers. “We terminated that pandemic. From seeing three ulcers once a day, I see them once every six months now.” This is an analogous situation, he says, in that a triple therapy is again required.
“Our aim is to prevent hospitalisation from COVID-19 and vaccination alone won’t achieve that.” From AFR dated September 17 / 2021

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:48pm

Mate you are repeating yourself. I have already addressed Borody. It is unnecessary, you haven't even touched the sides of the bottomless pit of bullshit. At least give us something new.

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Supafreak Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:56pm

You will just have to wait blindboy , Borody is making his submission and other trials are in progress . I have to repeat myself because unlike a computer you have to punch the information into vic local more than once .

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truebluebasher Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 4:59pm

*National / State Emergency...(Set periods > must be continually extended)
Suspend Civil Liberties / Request Public / Enforce Public Health Directions
Hazardous Events > Pathogens / Bushfires / Flooding / Cyclones / Pandemics
Makeshift Policing is ramped accordingly > Penalties = Only 25% of Covid fines / bills have been paid.

*Compulsory Order is the virtue of necessity, is the Mother of Invention.
Essential compliance of absolute requisite without postponement.
Transit Act > Drive on the Left / Seatbelts / Headlights / Speed Limits / Ped Xings / RBT
Also Life Jackets / Helmets / Uniforms / Footwear / Safety procedure
Compulsory extends to Alcohol / Voting / Census / Retirement-Pension Age / Superannuation
Offences are policed Nationally & as a matter of priority &/or fines are imposed with instant jail time.

*Mandate commands one to oblige to necessary legally binding terms often requiring a third party.
As a result of outsourcing thru less secure measures it's therefore subject to change.
By design it lacks urgency & promotes hesitancy.
In this case the Command relies heavily on many party's interpretation of an act or an indemnity.
Requesting ID / Licence / Certificates / Passports / Student Pass / Qualifications / Applications....
Penalties are by way of DOS ( Denial of Service )
No Jab = No Pay / No Play / No Education / No Job / No Entry / No Travel

Mandates contrive & promote corruption by inclusion of less secure random policing on a Mass Scale.
Bouncers > o/s App check > NBN > Post Office > Emails > Debt Collectors > Unit Managers
Ends with Bullies beating check out chicks & Bullets fired thru windows of innocent shop keepers...

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/not-until-everyone-is-welcome-the-sy...

Vax Pass Checks are geared to Govt and their Property Lease holds.
Look a little closer at Pass Policing... there are 2 opposing schools before the Freedom Games begin.
1) Venues that deny Entry prior to Doorway by overcrowding & impeding Public spaces (Rich Folk)
Airports can extend check in Queues out onto Pavement & Carparks...( Allow another 3 hours in sun )
Most Stadiums / Libraries / Large Leases > Department Stores can also Clog the Mall with Queues.
Almost always Social Distancing is breached, mocking the purpose of Vax Pass.

2) Venues that don't bankroll parties must clear out stock for in store queues that block doorways.
These small shops must display Store Entry Posters in Widows to "prevent entry" + offer online Alt!
They cannot stop customers from entering from (Public sidewalk) Only the Party Donors get civic space.
Shops can't demand checks but will be fined if they don't ask...they can call cops if customer refuses.

Here's a few obvious examples of Compulsory (vs) Mandate
(a) Friday : Not a soul around & Unvaxed Clive supporter is banned entry to Library by a Vax mandate.
Sat : Oz-wide 50,000 Unvaxed Clive Supporters hand out pencils & maul every ballot in same Library.
It is compulsory for Unvaxed to Vote in the most mandated Vaxer'z Library in hottest Oz spot.
In fact unvaxed will be fined or go to jail for not breaching puny Emergency Health Mandate.

(b) It's compulsory for Kidz Life vests on Rock ledges...Dad fails & wave takes son > Dad goes to Jail.
It is compulsory for [P] to buckle up passengers > Fail - Crash [P] goes straight to Jail (No Questions!)
(vs) Patient is mandated to sign a Vax Form > Dies from [P] Vax in Hub > [P] Jabber is asked to carry on.
Vax Experts lecture a Jab is just like a seat belt...(Clearly it's quite the opposite, but let's humour them).

When a Mandate is made Compulsory via Emergency Health Order.
Mask on/off Mandate is timed to Emergency renewal, not quite as Compulsory as a seatbelt.
After Cops got sick of smashing chix into pavements they soon reverted to handing out Masks.
Police can & do instruct Citizens to don a mask before continuing & refusal is met with a fine or arrest.

On this note..you'll find Compulsory Laws knit together where Policing is most accessible
RBT -Drunk Speedster / No Seat Belt / Phone on Seat / No mask in Car / Can't Walk...Money for Jam.

Frontline Emergency groups have yet to locate any Covid or Vax on their Radar
SES / SLSA / VMR / RFS never even mention Covid or Vaccination once & don't require Vax to sign up.
RLSA argue Vax is a distraction & should be struck off Lifeguard's more essential Patrols.
Police seldom mention Covid or Vax...only a rare occasional link to Govt Health

Could present NSW / Vic Health data showcasing weeks of record vax Covid spread & unvaxed decline.
But Judge will ever argue that the WHO monkey from some blind trial knows better.
Save yer time as Judges don't need to Vax anyway...pretty much answers Vax Debate...(Not Essential!)

Politicization of Pandemic...
Bullying control for more power by banning unvaxed media accounts, vote time & representative access.
Emergency Law blocks unvaxed a voice...now Govt enshrines Emergency Power by default.
Nothing prevents Member serving electorate by Bus / Tram / Train...but can't Vote from office.
Mass Vax is shedding core principals & Pollies get drunk on instant majority Vax electorate Power.
NSW Premier says illness & death is a distraction...crush the Hesitants! Shock Jock pointed the Bone!
Public Health has long come last as our leaders have continually breached Covid laws as a sport.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 5:01pm

Old joke, never funny, dates to the punch card era which was over by the late 70s, which makes you seriously out if date. No need to lace your unsubstantiated ramblings with insults.

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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 5:03pm

Talking of unsubstantiated ravings......and in comes the champ. Blather, blather, blather

tylerdurden's picture
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tylerdurden Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 5:24pm

"Evidence" based decision making is not straight forward.

Good example is the pulse oximeter, the thing you put on your finger to get an estimate of the percentage oxygen saturation of haemoglobin.
They are in every operating theatre, ED, ICU, ambulance and hospital ward.
This country spends 10's of millions $ maintaining, replacing and upgrading them every year.
This is a direct quote from the Cochrane Review website:

"no evidence suggests that continuous monitoring with pulse oximetry reduced the incidence of postoperative complications or mortality"

They've also assessed outcomes for ICU, same conclusion.
Lots of trends towards early intervention and maybe subsets of patients benefit more than others but alas, no evidence they reduce morbidity or mortality.

What do we do, get rid of them?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 5:28pm

Given that a rapid catastrophic fall in oxygen saturation is a major problem with covid cases, maybe not. Can you provide the link so the statement can be seen in context?

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tylerdurden Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 5:39pm

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD002013.pub3/...

Crazy isn't it? Surely they must do some good??

I guess you could go either way.
On the one hand you could ignore the evidence presented in the Cochrane Review, or you could latch on to little bits and pieces within it and ignore the conclusions. You could then get anecdotal testimony from various clinicians who swear it helps and also cite smaller studies with various biases in order to support your argument that they are beneficial.

Or you go with evidence as per the Cochrane Review and refuse to have one put on your finger next time your having an operation or in ICU on the the basis they don't achieve anything

blindboy's picture
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blindboy Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 6:08pm

Tyler all I can think is that with high surveillance by nursing staff for other indicators of low oxygen saturation the oximeter may be redundant. But you know everyone loves a number!

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tylerdurden Sunday, 10 Oct 2021 at 6:10pm

Which way you going to go Blindboy?
Let someone put one on your finger or not?