COVID-19 Health System Overload Forecaster

Craig's picture
Craig started the topic in Wednesday, 18 Mar 2020 at 7:44pm

I've created a spreadsheet forecast which I'll update as we go..

There's also a website with live running data.. https://sites.google.com/view/stayhomeaustralia

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:04am
thermalben wrote:

I haven't been keeping up with developments in Canada, however this Twitter thread is an interesting example of the way misinformation spreads virally across Social Media.

https://twitter.com/mypoortiredsoul/status/1494912722156331008

So, was this tweet strategic, or just a journo trying to stay on the pulse?

A common theme is this thread is misinformation comes from both sides - would love to see some examples such as this coming from the 'other side' of this issue.

Either way, this is really, really disgusting. You'd have to wonder how much of the movement is fuelled by these sort of reports. How many people become disenfranchised, or radicalised - over a non event. Needs to be more retribution for this stuff.

'a person was trampled and killed by a police horse!'

In reality:

'a person stood in front of a moving police horse line, and has a sore shoulder'

There was a classic piece being shared around Melbourne last year during the anti lockdown protest. On the afternoon of one of the protests which involved a bit of a violent clash, a video of a younger guy emerged, covered in blood groaning on the ground. Included with the video was text along the lines of a guy now being in hospital in critical condition after being attacked by police and shot with rubber bullets. A few people were saying things would kick off 'George Floyd' style if he dies. Turned out the bloke tried to rob a bottle-o, got into a scuffle with the worked and had a bad fall trying to escape. Absolute disgrace. Why was it shared? Probably to add more anger fuelled individuals to the protest line, and get them to biff up police.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:18am
Roadkill wrote:
udo wrote:
Robo wrote:
Roadkill wrote:

As the new normal begins. 15 international flight arriving into Melbourne today.

don't need to be jabbed either

Which Airlines are carrying unjabbed ?

None…pax must present vaccine proof on arrival.

nope the new Melbourne facility is taking 10 unvaxed today from OS, more false info rom the toad

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:27am

And it seems like you can fly Qatar Airways unvaccinated:

Qatar Airways wrote:

Transit through Doha

Passengers who are transiting through Doha, and not leaving the airport, are not required to present any test results or certifications above the requirements of their departure or destination country.

See also here.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:29am

Emirates :
To board the flight, you must meet the requirements for every country you will travel to and transit through. This includes your departure country, your transit country, and your final destination. There may also be regulations relating to your recent travel history.

https://www.qatarairways.com/en-au/travel-alerts/requirements.html

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:28am

Exactly stok.
One of the main pieces of pure bullshit flowing through the Ottawa protests was that they couldn't be arrested because there was no police chief so no orders could be given / it was against the constitution / blah blah blah. Those still clogging up the streets were told don't worry, protestor re-enforcements would come charging over the hill.
The main aim was to keep the mob in place for as long as possible so the grift could continue.
Those idiots on the front line were shocked when the coppers started hauling them away and towing their trucks. Meanwhile a bunch of the protest leaders buggered off early to avoid getting charged.
That Ottawa convoy achieved absolutely nothing and a bunch of suckers paid big money to achieve it.
It's just like the Canberra cookers. Scum leadership making a buck, and confused and disillusioned followers going home wondering what the fuck did they achieve.
It must have been a deep emotional blow when those Ottawa protested finally realised they aren't national heroes and don't have popular support.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:26am
gsco wrote:
udo wrote:

Which Airlines are carrying unjabbed ?

How did Novax Jokervic get into Australia if unvaccinated?

It seems that you can fly unvaccinated on Etihad and Emirates?

For example in this article is says:

"Emirates has not mandated that passengers be vaccinated in order to fly with them."

And this article says:

"You don’t have to be fully vaccinated or be tested to fly on Emirates."

And it seems that Etihad only mentions PCR test requirements and not vaccination requirements?

If people do fly unvaxxed, they won’t get entry. Melbourne airport spokesman said no cert no entry.

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 9:32am

Yes so it seems that many of the major airlines are allowing people to travel with vaccination status just subject to the requirements of the countries they travel from, through and to.

And for Qatar Airways you can even transit through the capital Doha unvaccinated.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 10:07am
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

What a sook you are, You asked a question and I answered it. And you are still whinging like a crybaby.

Just becuase you didn't like the answer is irrelevant to me.

You also said you were not going to engage with me..yet here we are the next day....snooore.

Be a man of your word, bd.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 10:12am
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

blackers's picture
blackers's picture
blackers Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 10:27am

For what it's worth, the said Police Chief resigned last Tuesday, well before the law changes and the removal of the protesters.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 11:17am

Meanwhile in Australia the cooker /LNP dance continues.
Barnaby is saying we should listen to the cookers. Oh yeah, he'll listen, but not because they have anything even remotely interesting to say. He just wants the cooker vote so will lead them on while giving them absolutely nothing.
Does anyone think Barnaby will cave in to the demands of Hoody, Smit and Bosi?
Barnaby and the rest of the LNP are absolutely desperate. They are trailing in the polls badly, and need ever single cooker vote they can get, but if they give the cookers what they want, they can kiss goodbye to middle Australia. And what happens if some cooked nut job gets violent? It's a very real possibility. I'm tipping middle Australians won't be thanking Barnaby at the voting booth for listening to these screwballs.
Have the cookers on this forum worked this out yet?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 12:15pm

A few thoughts lifted from that piece -

Populism [whether left or right wing] represents a danger for liberal democracy because it has a deep affinity with the archaic stone-age characteristics of the human mind, evolved to serve the demands of group cooperation rather than the rational discovery of truth.

A complex world (aka epistemic uncertainty) leads to people often preferring simple but incorrect explanations to complex but accurate ones, especially if those views are also shared by others and magnified by hyper-individualism and social media.

There is a distinct possibility that “human nature” as shaped by evolution is ill-suited to the psychological requirements of liberal democracy, and it may be that our brief period of liberal democracy will turn out to be a temporary aberration from millennia of tribalism.

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 12:06pm

yes, now that's one of the best articles I've read in a long time. It explains a lot.

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 12:14pm

Good read there Bonza, really enjoyed that.

Loved this one, great summary of the many themes presented in this thread. Does this sound like something the Canberra protestors might be presenting?

Any comments anti everything crew?

"Simplicity and certainty

Facing complex and often unmanageable cognitive demands, humans often prefer simple but incorrect explanations to complex but accurate ones, especially if they are also shared by others. Simplifying cognitive habits such as categorization promote cognitive efficiency, and populist narratives naturally cater to our appetites for simplification, dividing the world into simple categories of “us and them,” “good and bad.”

Populist propaganda also exploits cognitive fluency effects and the availability heuristic—the human tendency to overestimate the reliability, importance, and truthfulness of information that happens to be simple, and easy to process and remember. People readily overestimate the truth of statements that happen to be easy to read and simple to understand—a common feature of populist communication.

Populist conspiracy theories thrive because they offer simplicity and a sense of privileged knowledge. Paradoxically, the less a person knows about a topic, the more confident they tend to be in maintaining their erroneous beliefs (the Dunning-Krueger effect). Poorly informed people are ignorant of the extent of their lack of expertise, holding on to erroneous beliefs with excessive confidence."

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 12:17pm
gsco wrote:

yes, now that's one of the best articles I've read in a long time. It explains a lot.

Should be essential reading.

fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21 Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 12:28pm

"Seductive claims about moral superiority are common in both left-wing and right-wing populist movements—what could be more virtuous than representing “the people” and “justice”? Woke activists see virtue in attacking those who disagree, just as fascists and communists committed innumerable atrocities for what they believed was their "noble" cause. Moral certitude denies the legitimacy of any opposition, making any discussion superfluous. Indeed, followers of populist movements often try to outdo each other in righteous displays of moral fervour."

"Anger is also an important feature of both left-wing and right-wing populist movements. Unlike fear, anger produces narrowed cognitive focus and tunnel vision and often stimulates aggression. Populist narratives emphasizing past grievances typically produce anger and demand for retribution."

Well that describes a recently returned poster here to a Tee...

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:22pm

I've been saying this for years. Instead of fighting left vs right we should all fight populism, together!

monkeyboy's picture
monkeyboy's picture
monkeyboy Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:35pm
Robo wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
udo wrote:
Robo wrote:
Roadkill wrote:

As the new normal begins. 15 international flight arriving into Melbourne today.

don't need to be jabbed either

Which Airlines are carrying unjabbed ?

None…pax must present vaccine proof on arrival.

nope the new Melbourne facility is taking 10 unvaxed today from OS, more false info rom the toad

If you are an Australian citizen our border requirements do not require you to be vaccinated to come into Australia but you must quarantine.

Everyone else needs to be fully vaccinated with an approved vaccine (else you must quarantine but you can still come).

So..airlines do this check in the country that you board (as they have always done) that now includes the vaccination requirements of the country you are disembarking (not sure what the transit rules are but they would also have to consider those if you transit).

This means all airlines will let you travel to your destination based on the requirements of that destination. BUT some airlines have their own requirements and you can choose if you really want to fly with them. (Long haul flights in economy were never pretty, a mask or some face covering has always been a good idea).

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:34pm
flollo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. Instead of fighting left vs right we should all fight populism, together!

Hey flollo, I agree but there's a difference between left and right wing populism.
Groups like the Socialist Alliance always offer the same simple solutions to complex problems, but they are lucky to get 1% of the vote because they have no megaphone.
right wing populism on the other hand is clapped and cheered by shock jocks and crackpots in the sky news after dark team because there's big $$$ to be made.
right wing populism is about punching down too which is infinitely more dangerous than the "strike strike strike, give us a pay raise" stuff coming from the SA. Scumo's anti-chinese, anti-trans people, anti union, anti-immigrant populism does have consequences. 4 men in drab work wear, discussing the Cuban health system in a small room in Trades Hall doesn't.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:39pm

Are you saying that left-wing populism doesn’t have consequences?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:41pm

I think that’s your problem demonstrated right there - twisting something for tribal and ideological purposes.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:40pm
Stok wrote:

Any comments anti everything crew?

I would love to answer but there are more qualified professionals than myself in this forum. Some better ones hate everything, scroll twitter and feed on memes every day! The world will fall apart if it doesn't go their way and we certainly keep hearing about it through different threads.

fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21's picture
fitzroy-21 Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:45pm
AndyM wrote:

Are you saying that left-wing populism doesn’t have consequences?

"Unlike fear, anger produces narrowed cognitive focus and tunnel vision and often stimulates aggression."

Pretty much sums him up AndyM in the quotes earlier.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 1:59pm
Vic Local wrote:
flollo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. Instead of fighting left vs right we should all fight populism, together!

Hey flollo, I agree but there's a difference between left and right wing populism.
Groups like the Socialist Alliance always offer the same simple solutions to complex problems, but they are lucky to get 1% of the vote because they have no megaphone.
right wing populism on the other hand is clapped and cheered by shock jocks and crackpots in the sky news after dark team because there's big $$$ to be made.
right wing populism is about punching down too which is infinitely more dangerous than the "strike strike strike, give us a pay raise" stuff coming from the SA. Scumo's anti-chinese, anti-trans people, anti union, anti-immigrant populism does have consequences. 4 men in drab work wear, discussing the Cuban health system in a small room in Trades Hall doesn't.

Your concerns are legit and I agree, there are a lot of issues with what you're saying. However, we can fix problems if we are willing to give some of our position away to allow a genuine discussion.

For example, I googled Socialist Alliance. Their web description came out as:

"Anti-capitalist and eco-socialist political party, formed in Australia in 2001. An activist party, leading campaigns and contesting elections."

As someone who believes in so-called capitalism, I am not the person that would get attracted to this political party. However, I am willing to put that aside and listen to what you have to say about their ideas/policies. However, are you also open-minded to alternative ideas so we can have a good dialogue and fight populism?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:01pm

left wing populism in Australia is virtually non-existent AndyM because they lack funds and media outlets prepared to give their opinions traction.
Compare that to Palmer and his $100 million election campaign spend and you'll understand where the power and danger lies in this country.

bonza's picture
bonza's picture
bonza Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:09pm

"moral absolutism is used to justify coercive authoritarian practices in many universities, organisations and institutions"

Andrews and McGowan have shown how left wing populism is existent in Australia despite the current science for political benefit only.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:11pm
bonza wrote:

"moral absolutism is used to justify coercive authoritarian practices in many universities, organisations and institutions"

Andrews and McGowan have shown how left wing populism is existent in Australia despite the current science for political benefit only.

Haha, spot on.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:22pm

@Vic Local I am looking at your Social Alliance to give them some clicks.

Here are their policies on taxation, I have shared my position in capitals. Would you be happy to do the same for policies of political parties you don't agree with?

Scrap the GST - WILLING TO LISTEN FURTHER, NEEDS MORE DETAILS

For a steeply progressive tax system where people with incomes less than the median wage pay less tax while top tax marginal tax rate is increased to 70% for incomes over $200,000 - SHOW US THE SPECIFIC BREAKDOWN, THIS MEANS NOTHING WITHOUT THE DETAILS

Stop “bracket creep”: index tax brackets including the tax free threshold for inflation - AGREE

Repeal the “stage 3 tax cuts” for the rich - DON'T AGREE

Introduce a wealth tax for the super rich - DEFINE SUPER RICH, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

An immediate rise in company tax to 49%; establish an additional super-profits tax - ABSOLUTELY INSANE, DON'T AGREE

Make big companies pay tax: remove tax loopholes and expand ATO compliance resources - MORE DETAILS REQUIRED, DEFINE 'BIG COMPANIES'

Remove all negative gearing tax breaks on investment properties - AGREE

End the billions in public subsidies to mining corporations banks and energy companies - AGREE

Abolish the Medicare levy and pay for a free universal health system out of general revenue - AGREE

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:34pm
bonza wrote:

"moral absolutism is used to justify coercive authoritarian practices in many universities, organisations and institutions"

Andrews and McGowan have shown how left wing populism is existent in Australia despite the current science for political benefit only.

Care to elaborate?

And maybe consider in your response the actions taken by right leaning state Premiers such as Gladys, Dom and Steven Marshall?

monkeyboy's picture
monkeyboy's picture
monkeyboy Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:34pm

The problem with socialists is that eventually they run out of other people's money.

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 2:51pm
monkeyboy wrote:

The problem with socialists is that eventually they run out of other people's money.

For the sake of fighting populism I am happy to go through this Socialist Alliance that @Vic Local likes. It appears that their policy page is a list of short, punchable, tweetable one-liners without any substantiation on how and with what resources would they put these things into practice. It seems to be the case of hoping to win the elections and then 'we'll deal with it later'.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 3:57pm

"For the sake of fighting populism I am happy to go through this Socialist Alliance that @Vic Local likes"
Really flollo? Are you going to straw man me too?
Do you really want to discuss SA populism which has zero impact on Australian society while ignoring the populist claptrap of alt-right nut jobs like Hanson, Palmer and Kelly? Maybe we should talk when the commies start rioting in the streets, burning down old Parliament House, or start getting arrested for terrorism like the far right nut jobs in this country.
You could start here. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/21/united-australia-...

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 4:18pm

just normal everyday people out protesting mandates....and throwing shit at cops, just for fun.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-omicron-parliament-protest-pms-me...

flollo's picture
flollo's picture
flollo Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 4:38pm
Vic Local wrote:

"For the sake of fighting populism I am happy to go through this Socialist Alliance that @Vic Local likes"
Really flollo? Are you going to straw man me too?
Do you really want to discuss SA populism which has zero impact on Australian society while ignoring the populist claptrap of alt-right nut jobs like Hanson, Palmer and Kelly? Maybe we should talk when the commies start rioting in the streets, burning down old Parliament House, or start getting arrested for terrorism like the far right nut jobs in this country.
You could start here. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/21/united-australia-...

Jeez...Straw manning you? You brought up SA and I thought it would be a good idea to look into it.

Ignoring Hanson, Palmer, and Kelly? Based on what did you come to that conclusion? Happy to start there. I just browsed UA's website and their policies. Basically, it's all about covid, vaccine passports, mandates...There is hardly anything else. This is pure populism riding on the wave of current COVID problems. I even listened to this interview with Clive Palmer, some of the stuff he says is quite crazy.

https://www.unitedaustraliaparty.org.au/clive-palmer-talks-to-6prs-liam-...

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:23pm
flollo wrote:
Vic Local wrote:

"For the sake of fighting populism I am happy to go through this Socialist Alliance that @Vic Local likes"
Really flollo? Are you going to straw man me too?
Do you really want to discuss SA populism which has zero impact on Australian society while ignoring the populist claptrap of alt-right nut jobs like Hanson, Palmer and Kelly? Maybe we should talk when the commies start rioting in the streets, burning down old Parliament House, or start getting arrested for terrorism like the far right nut jobs in this country.
You could start here. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/feb/21/united-australia-...

Jeez...Straw manning you? You brought up SA and I thought it would be a good idea to look into it.

Ignoring Hanson, Palmer, and Kelly? Based on what did you come to that conclusion? Happy to start there. I just browsed UA's website and their policies. Basically, it's all about covid, vaccine passports, mandates...There is hardly anything else. This is pure populism riding on the wave of current COVID problems. I even listened to this interview with Clive Palmer, some of the stuff he says is quite crazy.

https://www.unitedaustraliaparty.org.au/clive-palmer-talks-to-6prs-liam-...

Flollo, I only brought up the Socialist Alliance to show how irrelevant they are. The very next post, you're telling me a like them.
Mate, we've seen an explosion of right wing populism in the English speaking western world which has turned violent in so many places. I believe we are about to see a bunch of the leaders from the Canberra Cookers getting arrested soon.
Let's not lose sight of the main event here.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:18pm
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

You're not a very nice person are you Roadkill. I'd imagine you don't have any friends.
Btw, answering, 'none, no' is a laughable answer,
And it's clear you lack the ability to engage in a conversation.
When i said i was signing out of the conversation, that's because you refused to engage in, you know, a conversation.
Still do.
I'm guessing the meditation didn't work? Maybe try some medication instead and go and get some sun. You sound like a bit of a loser to me.

troppo dichotomy's picture
troppo dichotomy's picture
troppo dichotomy Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:20pm

Mummy when i grow up i want to become a socialist.

Mum reply's,that's nice dear but you cant do both.

Michael Adam's picture
Michael Adam's picture
Michael Adam Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:24pm

If you are not a socialist when young, you have no heart.
If you are not conservative when you grow up, you have no brain.

bonza's picture
bonza's picture
bonza Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:42pm
Stok wrote:
bonza wrote:

"moral absolutism is used to justify coercive authoritarian practices in many universities, organisations and institutions"

Andrews and McGowan have shown how left wing populism is existent in Australia despite the current science for political benefit only.

Care to elaborate?

And maybe consider in your response the actions taken by right leaning state Premiers such as Gladys, Dom and Steven Marshall?

3 examples:
WA current restriction for bootser vaxxed entry only to the state.
Vic current restrictions for all >8 to be masked indoors.
Andrews repeated threats of booster mandates for entry to the state.

not evidence based. completely over the top. ignores the risk to public health v benefit to the public. done purely for public approval that they have benefited from earlier in the pandemic with a hope to continue that wave of approval for as far as possible.

other premiers (e.g.) NSW are still implementing obsolete restrictions but it is my opinion that andrews and mcgowan are acting in a most populist fashion currently.

most restrictions & mandates currently in place are not done based on science. they ignore the damage they are causing. they are causing real harm to public trust of our democratic institutions and public health policy and continue to enable inequality.

regardless if one agreed with the mandates and restrictions (i did) when the evidence known at the time was different they would then support to let such restrictions and mandates continue for a single day longer then is necessary is baffling and dangerous. the only reason is ideological lunacy.

Stok's picture
Stok's picture
Stok Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:42pm

Instead of just posting crap about the left and far left, how about linking their involvement in the current covid state of affairs?

Right and far right positions on covid and vaccines is quite prevalent. Especially as a populist voice. It's also highly bankrolled. Capitalism at all costs and freedom to spend big without restrictions.

Where's the left populist voice on this topic? In countries where covid has run rampant due to lax restrictions, where has the populist voice been hiding?

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:42pm
bluediamond wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

You're not a very nice person are you Roadkill. I'd imagine you don't have any friends.
Btw, answering, 'none, no' is a laughable answer,
And it's clear you lack the ability to engage in a conversation.
When i said i was signing out of the conversation, that's because you refused to engage in, you know, a conversation.
Still do.
I'm guessing the meditation didn't work? Maybe try some medication instead and go and get some sun. You sound like a bit of a loser to me.

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

Do we give them a platform and respect their right to post misinformation?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:43pm

Here's an interesting parallel.

bonza's picture
bonza's picture
bonza Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 5:46pm
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

You're not a very nice person are you Roadkill. I'd imagine you don't have any friends.
Btw, answering, 'none, no' is a laughable answer,
And it's clear you lack the ability to engage in a conversation.
When i said i was signing out of the conversation, that's because you refused to engage in, you know, a conversation.
Still do.
I'm guessing the meditation didn't work? Maybe try some medication instead and go and get some sun. You sound like a bit of a loser to me.

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

Do we give them a platform and respect their right to post misinformation?

yes we do. otherwise who decides when its misinformation?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 6:15pm
Vic Local wrote:

left wing populism in Australia is virtually non-existent AndyM because they lack funds and media outlets prepared to give their opinions traction.
Compare that to Palmer and his $100 million election campaign spend and you'll understand where the power and danger lies in this country.

I think you’re showing that you’re completely misreading the definition, the situation and also the article that we’re talking about.

bonza's picture
bonza's picture
bonza Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 6:24pm

*edit. i agreed at the beginning with the earlier restrictions. that agreement faded in degrees until about October last year when it should have ended or thereabouts. I never supported the vaccine mandates.

seeds's picture
seeds's picture
seeds Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 6:46pm

I reckon that’s how the majority of Australians feel Bonza myself included

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 6:50pm
Michael Adam wrote:

If you are not a socialist when young, you have no heart.
If you are not conservative when you grow up, you have no brain.

So true, great quote.

Roadkill's picture
Roadkill's picture
Roadkill Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 7:06pm
bonza wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

You're not a very nice person are you Roadkill. I'd imagine you don't have any friends.
Btw, answering, 'none, no' is a laughable answer,
And it's clear you lack the ability to engage in a conversation.
When i said i was signing out of the conversation, that's because you refused to engage in, you know, a conversation.
Still do.
I'm guessing the meditation didn't work? Maybe try some medication instead and go and get some sun. You sound like a bit of a loser to me.

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

Do we give them a platform and respect their right to post misinformation?

yes we do. otherwise who decides when its misinformation?

Well in the case of covid, we have science, scientists, medical experts in their fields….they decide and advise facts. Vs, none experts and you tubers and podcasters that spread false info. Info that is then picked up by others and reposted all over various social media..info that can cause damage to many and death to some.

burleigh's picture
burleigh's picture
burleigh Monday, 21 Feb 2022 at 7:11pm
Roadkill wrote:
bonza wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
bluediamond wrote:

@roadkill, i asked yesterday if you had any thoughts on why the Chief of Police in Ottawa might resign in the middle of the civil protests.
You refused to answer, well, you said, 'Nope, none" but instead continued to belittle and insult, even though not a single slur or insult was made towards you in the conversation.
You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information. But you refuse to answer to something based on fact.
Are we gonna get the old 'i don't answer you because you don't answer me' routine that you pull out whenever anyone tries to ask you a reasonable balanced question. Care to actually enter the conversation in a well balanced way without slinging insults?? Still would like your opinion on why the Police chief would resign in the most critical part of his time as the head of Police.

I did not state I am here to shit stir people spreading misinformation.

However,

"You stated above you're basically here to shit stir people spreading mis information."

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

You're not a very nice person are you Roadkill. I'd imagine you don't have any friends.
Btw, answering, 'none, no' is a laughable answer,
And it's clear you lack the ability to engage in a conversation.
When i said i was signing out of the conversation, that's because you refused to engage in, you know, a conversation.
Still do.
I'm guessing the meditation didn't work? Maybe try some medication instead and go and get some sun. You sound like a bit of a loser to me.

So, how do you think people spreading mis information should be treated?

Do we give them a platform and respect their right to post misinformation?

yes we do. otherwise who decides when its misinformation?

Well in the case of covid, we have science, scientists, medical experts in their fields….they decide and advise facts. Vs, none experts and you tubers and podcasters that spread false info. Info that is then picked up by others and reposted all over various social media..info that can cause damage to many and death to some.

There is science, then there is $cience. We’re experiencing the latter.