Interesting things too

Btw, cheers Vic for at least having the wantons to admit it.

I mentioned nothing about scale and I didn't dispute anything said above. My sole point was that both sides of politics are open to and engage in corrupt practices. At least Vic can admit that. Good onya mate.

Reading these forums makes you wish there were assassins out there everywhere with no other motive than to "keep the bastards honest".

Only one side of politics wants a fully funded and empowered Federal ICAC and the other has been blocking it for close on 8 years .... do you need a colour coded spreadsheet to determine which is which here?

"Dirty money is just that, it's non-partisan."

zen, I post a list of COALition abuses. You respond saying you can't be arsed finding the evidence to support your contention that both sides are as bad as each other, then post the same claim again. This is beyond evasive mate it is a disinformation campaign to support your political views. If you want to post bullshit and not be challenged you need to find other forums.

"disinformation campaign"

Hahahahahah!! You really are a hysterical bed-wetter Blowfly.

Look out everyone, Zen's in with the Russians.

Just another bullshit false equivalence argument.

Sure power corrupts but it’s been my observation over many years the right are the fiercest defenders of the rule of law and convention right up to the nano second it doesn’t suit them.

"I couldn't agree more Vic, this mob are quite likely the biggest bunch of scumbags ever seen in Australian politics, the sheer brazen arrogance is quite shocking.

But my point is, blind faith in any alternative is ill-advised."

AndyM: Governments are like nappies mate. Unless you change them, the stench just gets worse. In 2019, the federal LNP was already seriously corrupt, Then Australia gave them the keys for another 3 years.
Only a complete idiot would have thought these crooks would clean up their act after the voters gave them a mandate for more of the same.
The reality is, most governments start out with a cleanish sheet. Unless there's consequences to political careers for corrupt behaviour, that sheet gets stained very quickly. We've seen 7 years of consequence free corruption. Is anyone shocked by the shit show we have in Australia?

On the basis of your argument VL, Labor in Victoria will be out on it's arse at the next election.

"On the basis of your argument VL, Labor in Victoria will be out on it's arse at the next election."
Were you not paying attention to the two branch stacking episodes in Victoria? The ALP sacked three MPs, the Libs just pretended nothing was wrong. I think voters know that all politicians are capable of corruption. They are also smart enough to realise that covering up, rather than punishing, corruption requires a voter backlash.
Labor will win again in Victoria because the LNP opposition is a pathetic joke who justifiably got smashed last election, and have only got worse since then.

No mate, I didn't say both sides are as bad as each other, you're putting words into my mouth. I said when there's an easy dollar to be made dirty money is non-partisan. I didn't mention the scale or which side is more predisposed to act corruptly- you did. So if we are going to infer, I'm guessing you're saying there is absolutely no corruption, greed, graft, backroom deals, nepotism, cronyism, jobs for the boys, skimming off the top, pork barrelling, lurks and perks, handshake deals what have you in Labor, the Greens, Independants, One Nation? It's the SOLE domain of the COALalition is it?

Point out where I said one side is equally as bad and I'll apologise to you,

If you can't, well I think that's more of a reflection on you than me.

And as for your stupid picture above- I thought you were above that. Guess I'm wrong again.

"I didn't say both sides are as bad as each other,"

No? Well what does this mean

"They're all as slimy as each other."

Are you really going to claim that "slimy" does not, in this context, mean "bad". Keep dodging mate, it's good for a laugh.

And in breaking news, Maya G rode the biggest wave male or female this year at Nazare breaking her own record in the process.

Well done her.

https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/surfing/meet-the-bra...

Glad you're amused.

Sounds like there's not much laughter in your life.

Happy to help.

Lots of laughter, lots of music, 50 surf spots within half an hour, non-stop swell for the last six months. Never been happier.

So why are you sitting there arguing on a computer and composing childish pictures?

"So why are you sitting there arguing on a computer and composing childish pictures?"

Well the computer is in my music room so it's right there. If I'm not in the water I am usually playing around here with my guitars or cameras. Recording, editing video and photos, whatever The endless battle against bullshit is easy to fit in amongst more meaningful things. There is usually plenty of it here, though since Dude moved over to the editorial team things have been a bit quieter, just you and Indo mainly. Just my little contribution to keeping things factual and maybe making people a bit more cautious about posting crap. The childish picture is for Andy. He likes that kind of infantile stuff so sometimes I just respond in kind.

Your hilarious tanties are by far the most infantile things ever seen on this site Blowfly.

"NO! Labor is the saviour!
Don't contradict me!
I shan't!
I WON'T!"

Stunning day outside mate, hope you've been in the water.

I get Blowfly’s frustration, when it comes to the environment and climate it’s been decades of hollow promises, weasel words, lies, corruption and greed. After a lifetime of lived experience the bullshit can be spotted miles away so when people come to the argument with ill informed puerile comments, motivated by what precisely, it can very hard to stay calm.

"The childish picture is for Andy. He likes that kind of infantile stuff"

Ha ha didn't have to wait long for that point to be proven.

"Sweetie's on the editorial team?"

Rumour has it he wrote "A Dive Into The Food Chain", which was actually very good. Unsubstantiated, but believable, particularly since he has been so well behaved lately.

I'll say it again.

The Libs are repulsive, crooked to the core.

But holding Labor up as somehow being beyond reproach is ridiculous.
Labor is preferable but are a long, long way from being the messiahs.

When you can control your dummy spits and tanties Blowfly, maybe you can think about calling what I post infantile.

Guy, a "lifetime of lived experience" says not to trust any of these fuckers.
Easy starting point.

Agreed Andy, but more chance of change for the better from the left as I’ve previously suggested it will take many terms of incremental change in the right direction to be meaningful - from the right there’s no chance, they are fucked. The irony is the environment ought not be political at all just about the science

Kleptocracy on one side, gender/race wars (edit: and working class jobs/climate wars) on the other. Can I choose not to choose between those two?

Guy, Labor are not "the Left", I actually thought we'd pretty much reached a consensus on that on this site.

Even Blowfly stated it.

But agree, at least with Labor there's a slight chance.

Politics aside this is quite interesting.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-24/newcastle-car-goes-over-cliff-bar...

@Andy,

Every time you write that my internal monologue goes to war.

I agree, but not wholeheartedly, so my pragmatic side says 'it's better to back the lesser of two evils', while the radical bays for political revolution, but the pragmatist says it's never gonna happen - two party system always and always with the same values, etc etc etc.

I've said again and again that I would much prefer Labor, but to back them blindly and credulously would be so silly.

And thank christ you're having an internal discussion Stu, it's the ideologues who aren't capable of it that are a huge part of the overall problem.

Agreed Andy, I have written several times here that the political spectrum is to the right and that the ALP are now a centre right party but they are way way left of the far right religious zealots and ideological reactionaries that most make up the numbers in the once centre right LNP political parties.

And sure, getting the LNP thrown out is the number one concern but flipping the bird to Labor at the same time is crucial.

For mine, Labor have actually picked up on this, so leading to an apparent change of tack leading into the last federal election.

Thumbs up Guy.

Labor is a centre right party and will remain that way as long as it is in opposition. Once in power it will be able to move to the left on social and environmental policies. There is no hope of any progress on the COALition side. Apart from their incompetence and corruption, they are moving further to the right on social policy and deeper into the brown on environmental policy. They are are also moving towards a much more authoritarian state. The only practical way forward then is to support Labor either directly or by preferencing them. If that makes me "rusted on Labor" so be it. Better rusted on to them than being unable to see the difference between the parties, being attached to the COALition or pretending that there is some other way forward..

So you think it’ll be ALP vs LNP till the end of time and we should just suck it up and keep chowing down on the ALP shit sandwich starring Albotross the Empty Chair like it’s the best thing on the menu ?

"Once in power it will be able to move to the left on social and environmental policies"

The word "will" bothers me Blowfly.

This belief that, if elected, Labor will change from a centre-right party to a left of centre party is just so optimistic.

The idea that Labor won't be hamstrung by its masters is almost unfathomable.

What about, at the very least, qualifying the statement with an "ideally" or a "hopefully"??

the shift to the left if it is to occur has to happen incrementally over 3-4 terms so as to bring the voters/country with you. voters need to be relaxed not worried and that is why the prime marketer won the last election, shorten the goose scared people more than, you know .....

I'd go so far as to say a shift away from the current neoliberal model cannot happen without some large, disruptive event .

Show me a party that's bold enough to go to an election saying they're going to raise taxes for public health, services, and education, and maybe I could change my mind.

"I'd go so far as to say a shift away from the current neoliberal model cannot happen without some large, disruptive event ."

A pandemic perhaps?

That event?
No one would wish it but maybe the poor management of the economic consequences of Covid that will continue to wash through the world for years, nothing we are hearing from the western leaders (oxymoron) should fill us with confidence, just more neoliberal tax cuts tripe FFS

You knuckleheads dreaming of a Labor victory are a very sad, deluded and pathetic bunch. But keep patting each other on the back and directing all criticism at the Libs and I'm sure you'll get your way.

@Hiccups,

You catch who Josh cited as his economic heroes a few weeks back, who he's channeling for his COVID response strategy?

Thatcher and Reagan.

Adam and Eve to the whole neoliberal disaster.

No, I'm thinking world war or climate collapse.

Hopefully I’m dead and don’t see that stu ....

Reckon ALP is more at risk of splintering as different interests' views diverge, eg:

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/cfmeu-withdraws-sup...

Have a look at the most recent Federal votes in those QLD regional seats and Fitzgibbons Hunter seat nearly going ON and there's the undercurrent... a working class revolt.

More likely than the coalition in NSW VJ?

Yeah Stu. Sorry. My tongue was in my cheek a bit there. I know Covid won't be enough. *sighs*

Newsflash: Climate collapse currently happening in Victoria. Murdoch press (Ch 7) has just given the weather report for Victoria - record cold temps, snow and rain for next few months, resulting from cold Antarctic air pushing over the State. Murdoch again, the bastard (Rupert not Gra)! Murdoch probably hired the hotel guards in Vicco too! But wait, the ABC has just reported the same! And, what's this? It's just repeated 7's report that the entire Labor Govt ministry and it's appointed Health and Police officials knew nothing about who appointed hotel security! The Health Workers Union want Mikakos' head! Say it isn't so - Murdoch has infiltrated the ABC! At least we can still turn to The Age/Guardian for material which has only positive Labor news.

Hey JQ, I dunno, but stuff like this doesn't help (published today):

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/dreyfus-labels-frontbench-col...

Last time we went through the Hunter (backroads way in, north of Bathurst) it was going absolutely gangbusters, new mines, utes and tradies everywhere, hotels booked out. Graffitti on the road coming down from the mountains: "Jobs not Greens". This is the kind of schism I'm seeing.

D-Rex don't tempt me, I love winter...